Buying stuff online, trading ethics, etc.

[Mikkel]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on this matter. And it's all just hypothetical, so excuse me if it's a bit vague ;)

Let's say you're considering buying something of the internet, let's say clothing of some sort, but are having concerns whether it's the right stuff for you. <_<

You talk to the trader on the phone and he guarantees both that the stuff will fit you, and your satisfaction (including a money back guarantee if you find that you actually like something else better).

So you place your order and get the stuff down. Nice enough stuff, but the sizing is a bit off so you start shipping things back and forth. Obviously this all takes time and you'd kinda like to have your stuff now, not in a forthnight.

Next bunch of stuff comes down and you try it on and the sizing issue is almost taken care of, however one of the items has a fault on it and needs to be replaced and the other is still not the right size. Turns out that the item which is still not the right size is currently out of stock and the dealer is considering ending his collaboration with his supplier since there have been issues about the products and may never be able to get the said item in the right size again.
Next day you're told that yeah, they can get the item in the right size inside perhaps 3 weeks but are willing to provide you with a substitute of some sort in the mean time. :no:

You decide that you've grown tired of the hassle with these items and would rather go into a shop and buy something of the shelf the self same day and get on with your life. You send the stuff back to the dealer but the dealer all of the sudden won't adhere to the guarantee that he put forward at the very beginning :oi-grr: - even though you offer to cover all freight expenses, i.e. he's not incurring any loses whatsoever. :mellow:

Dodgy? What do you think?

[kiwifruit]

i'd think they would refund, no problem....
seems logical, keep you happy etc

so, which company is it?

[jrandom]

What you describe would be a straightforward breach of trust, in my books.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to hold people to agreements made verbally, but I would have thought that any retailer, particularly an online one who'd be quite vulnerable to internet-borne word of mouth, would be very sensitive to such things.

As a businessman, I'd never allow a customer to go away with the impression that they had some sort of guarantee that I was not in fact willing to provide. Sometimes not closing a deal can be the best thing in the long run.

Certainly if a retailer developed the reputation of engaging in such stiff-armed practices I'd think twice about dealing with them. Mail-order / internet style businesses rely even more heavily on the customer's trust than traditional bricks-and-mortar shops do, and businesses like amazon.com have succeeded in large part because of an up-front commitment to ensuring satisfaction, even when that takes a bite out of short-term profits.

[Mikkel]

so, which company is it?

As I said this is all hypothetical and more of an attempt to evaluate what other people's opinion on this matter is ;)

[Usarka]

If it's a legitimate company then I believe you have the right to return items purchased online / mailorder.

If it is some dodgy trader from trademe then......


[Edit] this is for faulty goods only, as per the consumer gaurantees act. most reputable mailorder clothing places will accept returns for wrong sizes though as this is beneficial to them in the long run.....

[mynameis]

Mikkel,

A warning from Kiwi Biker Forums, you are spending too much time here.

For counselling services please visit here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=49889).

[TLMAN]

Name and shame I say!!

Who is it??:nono::nono:

[007XX]

Hi guys,


You talk to the trader on the phone and he guarantees both that the stuff will fit you, and your satisfaction (including a money back guarantee if you find that you actually like something else better).



me thinks your answer is right there: if the Trader guarantees your satisfaction, then he has to be given a fair chance to make it happen, but if you're still not satisfied, then he should refund you.

However, I don't think that freight would be reimbursed. It never was in any of the shops I worked in.

[Mikkel]

me thinks your answer is right there: if the Trader guarantees your satisfaction, then he has to be given a fair chance to make it happen, but if you're still not satisfied, then he should refund you.

So what constitutes a fair chance?
Waiting 3-6 weeks for something that you wanted ASAP?
Having to sort out various hassles to get the product up to the standard that you require?

[Mikkel]

Name and shame I say!!

Who is it??:nono::nono:

All hypothetical mate, so no name and no shame. ;)

...yet.

[007XX]

So what constitutes a fair chance?
Waiting 3-6 weeks for something that you wanted ASAP?
Having to sort out various hassles to get the product up to the standard that you require?

Your Potencial is way too patient and nice...They're muking your potencial about and so I would call the manager, explain diplomatically the situation. If that doesn't resolve it within 48 hours maximum, drop the words " Fair Go" in a more authoritative conversation...It always did wonders!

I know it sounds bitchy, but you've got to say enough is enough at some point.

[Mikkel]

Your Potencial is way too patient and nice...They're muking your potencial about and so I would call the manager, explain diplomatically the situation. If that doesn't resolve it within 48 hours maximum, drop the words " Fair Go" in a more authoritative conversation...It always did wonders!

I know it sounds bitchy, but you've got to say enough is enough at some point.

Hehe, I agree I'm probably too nice. On several occassions I was about to do that but got talked into giving more time since I really liked the dealer. So much more disappointing that I have to go through all this extra hassle really.


What do you mean by "Potencial"? English being my 2nd language means I hit a blank spot every now and again - last time it was the term arrears (as in rent issues)... (and no, it wasn't MY rent ;) )

[jrandom]

What do you mean by "Potencial"?

Oh, this will be good.

:corn:

[007XX]

Hehe, I agree I'm probably too nice. On several occassions I was about to do that but got talked into giving more time since I really liked the dealer. So much more disappointing that I have to go through all this extra hassle really.


What do you mean by "Potencial"? English being my 2nd language means I hit a blank spot every now and again - last time it was the term arrears (as in rent issues)... (and no, it wasn't MY rent ;) )

PM sent...


Oh, this will be good.

:corn:

Fuggoff you...:spanking:

[Mikkel]

PM sent...



Fuggoff you...:spanking:

Matter explained. Back to topic. 3-2-1, Discuss.

[ynot slow]

Consumer guarantees act is such that goods have to work or be fit for sale for the purchasers' benefit.I.E sizing is the issue,so they have to either get suitable size to fit or you get money refunded.Allowing for to and fro from them to you, can add cost to both parties with courier costs,after say third time,you want money please.Stay away from the part of them letting you have use of goods till correct size arrives,may be ok but if you mark them in anyway, they are and could if pushed ,say they were given to you in good faith to be returned in good condition once items were sent,when they are sent back with a hole in then it's a case of he said she said,with damage.

[The Stranger]

Consumer guarantees act is ....

Worth FA if the retailer is foreign based.

[Mikkel]

Worth FA if the retailer is foreign based.

He's NZ based.

However, the trouble as usual is of course that there's two sides to any story. I've of course related my side of the story as best I could. Trying to be as fair as humanely possible mind you.

The dealers persistence in trying to get out of doing the refund suggests to me that his business must be suffering at the moment otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Rashika]

Personally, from what I read, I think you have given them a pretty fair go to supply what you wanted... They have not been able to supply the product, in good time and in the needed condition (i.e a size to fit and in working condition and in this case its a safety product I believe, and it was important to get quickly and that was stressed initially)... simply enough they should refund the cost of the product.
There shouldn't be any dramas over it, its good business practice, keep your client (and all other potential clients they may tell about the issue) happy, or you will probably regret it.

[Mikkel]

Personally, from what I read, I think you have given them a pretty fair go to supply what you wanted... They have not been able to supply the product, in good time and in the needed condition (i.e a size to fit and in working condition and in this case its a safety product I believe, and it was important to get quickly and that was stressed initially)... simply enough they should refund the cost of the product.
There shouldn't be any dramas over it, its good business practice, keep your client (and all other potential clients they may tell about the issue) happy, or you will probably regret it.

Yeah, that's what I would have thought. But it seems it's not going to work out so easily.

The dealer has ignored my desire to cancel the deal and went on to courier a functional jacket in the right size and a set of pants a size too small down to me again. Luckily I intercepted the courier and said I wasn't going to accept the parcel (thereby saving myself ~40 dollars).

I placed my order on the 11th of October and informed the dealer of my desire to cancel the deal on the 30th of October. He decides to ignore my request to cancel the transaction and has still as of now not delivered into my hands a jacket of the right size that is "fit for purpose" and is trying to cram a pair of pants down my throat which are too small for me (I *CAN* get them on, but not without a struggle).

Anyone got any good advice on what I can do to get my money back? What legal options and rights do I have as a consumer in NZ? In Denmark it would have been easy since I'd be able to cancel any online deal inside 14 days of receiving the goods - and seeing as I haven't actually received the right goods yet...

[Dave-]

as we were talking about the other night, it's not like this is a custom item, you havn't damaged the item, it's probably already been sold once before you, and would still be less worn than a new pair of jeans from halansteins.

consumer garuntees act, product did not match description, seller with held infomation, and not fit for purpose.

[geoffm]

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, apply for a chargeback at your bank. That will get their attention or your money.
G

[Mikkel]

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, apply for a chargeback at your bank. That will get their attention or your money.
G

That is course I am currently pursuing. Although things are a bit more complicated here since I bought it on a Danish credit card. The consumer guarantees in Denmark are quite different from down here and there would have been no way that my desire to cancel the transaction could be denied and we would never have ended in this mess to begin with.

Anyway, I'm in contact with the bank and they'll look at the case on monday. If that fails I guess the disputes tribunal might be the most obvious option.

The thing that really bugs me is just how much time and energy I have to put into something as ridiculous as this. It really drains my energies!