Overanalysing your riding

[Bob]

Now I think it is a Good Thing to look at your riding technique, see if there are areas of weakness that could be improved, good things that could be reinforced to make them even better etc.

But are we in danger of overanalysing our riding?

It was a post in here recently that got me thinking about this. Someone had asked a question - and got lots of good answers - so they followed up with "So how far over should you lean a bike to get round a 140 degree bend?"

Simple answer - as far as you need to.

But it struck me that we're being force-fed so many tips, so much advice etc that we're in danger of messing up what we do by worrying too much about how we do it!

Open any bike magazine and there will be riding tips. Likewise TV shows, forums and just about anywhere biking crops up... there will be an "Improve your riding" feature.

This HAS to be why I see people on sportsbikes (just an example) bent right over the bike in a race-crouch, leaning so far off they're barely on the bike... when they're running at cruising speeds.

Lets face it, the position you ride should be dictated by the ride you are riding... but we're pummeled with so many - often conflicting - points of view that people don't know what to take on board.

So are we overanalysing our riding? Or should we at least try out all the hints, tips and suggestions to see what works best for us?

[bluninja]

I tend to go with what's comfortable. I got into hanging off (at least moving about) and now find I don't feel comfortable sitting bolt upright....even if going really slow on a sportsbike. I even just to hang off a bit on the 600 cc Eliminator.

Sure riders can over analyse.....after I did an advanced riding course it screwed up my riding for a few months as I tried to use everything I'd learned. I then went back to what I had been doing and added things in one at a time until they were comfortable before adding the next.

[Artifice]

personally i feel i spend too much time analyzing my riding, not enjoying it. but as to advice, i only try out what makes sence to me, i have to understand the theory behind the action. then again theres a lot i dont do cos im just too lazy to practice it. like braking practice. i.e. how much grip is too much for this front tyre before it lets go. heh guess thats why my arm gives me the odd niggle. darn nancy nails.

[scumdog]

I got one of those problems where I feel that left hand corners are easier to get 'round than right hand ones, had advice from others on this site but by hell it don't seem to make it any easier!!

[bluninja]

SD, thought that was just the camber of the road helping and hindering. I prefer lefts too, even though I 'know' that a loss of grip would put me into any oncoming traffic as opposed to into the verge. I guess from the centre line I feel I have 2 bits of road I can use as escape routes rather than on or off road. Shit I'm over analysing already :o

[scumdog]

SD, thought that was just the camber of the road helping and hindering. I prefer lefts too, even though I 'know' that a loss of grip would put me into any oncoming traffic as opposed to into the verge. I guess from the centre line I feel I have 2 bits of road I can use as escape routes rather than on or off road. Shit I'm over analysing already :o

Yeah, I guess that the left bends give a false impression that you have a bunch of tar seal out to your right to utilise as opposede to the nearby gravel etc when you go 'round a right turn.
However I'm sure my old H-D was 'warped' and REALLY was like that! :eek5:

[bluninja]

Yeah, I guess that the left bends give a false impression that you have a bunch of tar seal out to your right to utilise as opposede to the nearby gravel etc when you go 'round a right turn.
However I'm sure my old H-D was 'warped' and REALLY was like that! :eek5:
Must have been warped....I'm told they don't like any corners much :laugh:

[FROSTY]

I tend to listen/read /view every bit of advise offered and then go out and try it.
Lately its racetrack specific so I can practice in a safe enviroment.

[Ms Piggy]

Being a new rider I tend to listen to all advice given, try it out (if I can) and see if I feel comfortable with it. This site and those within have helped me a lot. :niceone:

[riffer]

Yup. I try everything I hear.

Some works for me, some doesn't.

[Motu]

Seeing as my riding is so varied I get to apply different techniques to different types of riding,I listen to all and check them out.At my age my memory is a bit erratic - so suddenly I may remember something Don DeSoto said in 1972 and find...hey,it still works!

[vifferman]

While I think we need to know what we are doing, and apply it, I have a theory that a lot of things we do are actually hampered by thinking too much while we're doing them. When you're "in the groove", when things just seem to flow and feel really good, you're actually operating using mostly the right side of your brain. As soon as you begin to rationalise things, the left side kicks in and starts to dominate proceedings, and it all becomes more awkward and mechanical.

This applies to all sorts of things: skiing, riding, dancing, playing a musical instrument, drawing/painting, etc.

So the trick is to ingrain the techniques by repetition, then stop thinking as much as possible, then things seem to be smooth and more enjoyable. Doesn't mean you have to switch your brain off, but if you find you're thinking with words or talking to yourself, it's a sure sign that you're rationalising and over-thinking things.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Seconded firestormer - I find that what I tend to do most of the time is ride away happily. When I find that I could be doing something wrong - it doesnt feel right, or I'm particularly slow, or rough, I mention it to someone, and get advice back. Then I'll try it out next time I ride.

While I'm happy riding most of the time, I know when I could be doing something better, and I try and improve those things. Sometimes it takes ages, like I always used to slow down too much for corners that were blind-ish, until I saw WT's comment about watching the vanishing point, and I thought ah, click, that'll fix my problem.... so i started doing it, and it's fixed the issue.

[Hoon]

I guess I over analyze because I am a theory type of person - I read everything I can find and try to make an attempt to apply it or try it at least once. Its not enough for me to know HOW to do something, I also need to know WHY! This allows me to look at the bigger picture and make a more informed decision on whether its better for me or not.

I'm also guilty of making lots of changes to my riding. For example this year two areas I'm working on are smoother brake/throttle control and minimising how far I hang off (no more than one arse cheek). This might make me slower for now but in the long run it will reap rewards. To me racing is a battle of self improvement. I get much satisfaction out of identifying my weaknesses and smashing them into oblivion! :)

I guess you have to think carefully about taking on advice instead of accepting it blindly. Also if it doesn't work on the first attempt, it doesn't necessarily mean its bad advice - it might just need more work. I am both sceptical and very open when it comes to advice as one thing I've learnt is that the solution to a problem can often be the exact opposite to what you thought it would be.

[Posh Tourer :P]

the solution to a problem can often be the exact opposite to what you thought it would be.

Which is often why it is a problem in the first place - cos you cant figure out how to solve it...

[Pwalo]

So the trick is to ingrain the techniques by repetition, then stop thinking as much as possible, then things seem to be smooth and more enjoyable. Doesn't mean you have to switch your brain off, but if you find you're thinking with words or talking to yourself, it's a sure sign that you're rationalising and over-thinking things.

Agree completely. When everything is going well it's amazing how little analyzing of your technique you do, and how much more time you have to look at road conditions etc.

Like everything practice, confidence and experience play a big part. Overanalyzing can be a real trap away from the race track.

[badlieutenant]

like Nike say "just do it"

[Motu]

You guys should take up trials riding - it's about analising your riding every inch of the way.

[Pwalo]

You guys should take up trials riding - it's about analising your riding every inch of the way.

Bugger that. I enjoy riding and not analysing it. Oh, you're not taking the Michael now??

[Hitcher]

Surely riding a bike is first and foremost about enjoyment? While scaring yourself shitless is a great way of learning stuff about your bike, road conditions and yourself, surely it should be the exception rather than the norm? Know your limits and ride within them.

[aff-man]

When riding i try not to analyse what i'm doing because it tends to make me loose focus. But i do try and push a bit further evry corner etc etc etc. But when i hear of a new way of doing something i try it out while commuting to see what happens and how i/the bike feel. This is how i found out i get a bit unstable when hanging straight off the bike but when i swivel my body off the seat and forward to lean my shoulder into it everything is fine. To practice this i used one of my favorite local corners and did it a few times trying different things (kinda freaked out the first time cause the big dropped in a hell of a lot quicker than i was used to) and this is why i don't like trying stuff on rides cause i don't know what the road conditions are like :crazy: :crazy:

[Jackrat]

Over analyse??
Hell someone asks how many fingers I use to brake an I have to go for a ride to find out.I guess I found what works for me a while ago,now I ride without thinking about it much.I do test a new bike to see what it's going to do in certain situations, but that's about it.
I analyse the hell out of the other traffic but. :sweatdrop

[DEATH_INC.]

I usta listen and try stuff lots,but not so much now.I'm still always keen to try a new technique though,at least if it sounds viable anyway.(for those who don't know me,it's all tried on the road :whistle: ,I don't do tracks....)
I'm with hoon though,I always wanna know 'why?' when someone tells me something rather than just accept it.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Agree completely. When everything is going well it's amazing how little analyzing of your technique you do, and how much more time you have to look at road conditions etc.

Thats true, and its always the most fun time :D

If it doesnt happen like that, I want to know why, so I can get more into the swing of things in more situations etc...

[Skyryder]

I have always believed that if you have to think about what you are doing sooner or later you are going to bin. I have a pet theory that those that bin where there is no othe vehicle involved are thinking about what they are doing instead of just 'doing it.' They are too invloved with the theory than the physical mechanics of the manouvre.

The other day I went for ride over to Reefton and back. There are some bends in the Lewis pass that can be taken with speed relitively safely. These are long sweeping ones. I tried two different techniqes on cornering. The first I concentrated on the short line. This is a point about halfway or a little further than the actual visable distance of clear road ahead. In the short line you become aware of having to lean the bike in order to take the line you are 'aiming' for.

Taking the long line is aiming for the point of clear visable road as it come into view. With the long line you are so focused on the road that leaning the bike into the curve becomes natural and as a result you are not aware of 'having' to lean the bike in order to take your line. It's a techniqe that works because the focal length of the eye maintains the direction of the turn and the line you are aiming for.

Useing the long line makes for faster and safer cornering

Practice this and your body position will fall into place without you having to think about it.

Hope I have made this clear.

Skyryder

[2_SL0]

When I first got on the dirt I worked bloody hard to get things right. It paid off big time. But it took alot of practise. Now that I have switched to the road I feel Im learning all over again. I first tried reading online tips etc. But I ended up needing a check list to tick off every body position, braking, road position, gear, throttle control, Vissually scanning the oncoming traffic and road for problems. By the time I got to the bottom of the list in my head, I completely screwed the corner, was in the wrong gear, left my indicator on, forgot to check my mirrors, and my visor was foggin up.
Ive cut the list down, Im cruising along, concentrating on learning to watch the road and traffic carefully. Checking mirrors and being smooth in the corners, (not neccessary the perfect line, but the safe line)
You must learn to walk before you run.
Im at a wobbly crawl at the moment.
Though as my own tutor, I am very hard on myself. :brick:

Advice I have read in here has been excellent. :niceone:

[Skyryder]

When I first got on the dirt I worked bloody hard to get things right. It paid off big time. But it took alot of practise. Now that I have switched to the road I feel Im learning all over again. I first tried reading online tips etc. But I ended up needing a check list to tick off every body position, braking, road position, gear, throttle control, Vissually scanning the oncoming traffic and road for problems. By the time I got to the bottom of the list in my head, I completely screwed the corner, was in the wrong gear, left my indicator on, forgot to check my mirrors, and my visor was foggin up.
Ive cut the list down, Im cruising along, concentrating on learning to watch the road and traffic carefully. Checking mirrors and being smooth in the corners, (not neccessary the perfect line, but the safe line)
You must learn to walk before you run.
Im at a wobbly crawl at the moment.
Though as my own tutor, I am very hard on myself. :brick:

Advice I have read in here has been excellent. :niceone:

At the end of the day the best tutor is yourself. Only you know when you got it wrong and only you know when you got it right and what you did to get it right. That by the way is not anylising, it's knowing, two vastly different things.

Skyryder

[2_SL0]

Shuwaddy waddy huh?

:spudwhat:

I spent hours analying my dirt riding and correcting bad habits. But for the road I have found there are more important things for me to concentrate on. I wil analyse once I have come to grips with the basics of road riding safely. :scooter:

[flipper]

With regard to racing I put a lot of effort into analysing what I am doing, particularly with regard to transitions/weight transfer, ie braking to turning, brake markers, braking efficiency, smoothness and planning where I want to be and when on the track. I'll spend a race meeting or practice working on one or two corners. And they are usually the fast ones (as a reasonably successful NZ racer once pointed out to me, everyone is slow on the slow corners, so work on the fast ones). I'll relive corners in my head before and afterwards looking for opportunities for improvement. If I get passed I like to know why and how I might have prevented it. I.e. How did I let him (or her on the odd occasion that Mitch is out there) outbrake me? or get inside me? get a better drive on the next straight than me? etc etc. When I pass someone, what worked, where were my advantages?. If I get into trouble, why?.

On the road other than reading the road surface & corners coming up, planning my lines through em and keeping an eagle eye on vehicles using a bit more than their fair share of the road, my riding technique is on autopilot. Any spare thought cycles are fully occupied scanning for cops.

If someone goes past me on the road hanging off thier bike I usually think thay are an idiot. Either they are going too slow to be hanging off in the first case or if they are going fast enough to justify hanging off they are asking to get bitten by a variable road surface catching them out, or an oncoming vehicle squeezing them off their line.

Not that I'm getting opinionated as I get older. (I was always like this).

[Bob]

I have always believed that if you have to think about what you are doing sooner or later you are going to bin. I have a pet theory that those that bin where there is no othe vehicle involved are thinking about what they are doing instead of just 'doing it.' They are too invloved with the theory than the physical mechanics of the manouvre.

The other day I went for ride over to Reefton and back. There are some bends in the Lewis pass that can be taken with speed relitively safely. These are long sweeping ones. I tried two different techniqes on cornering. The first I concentrated on the short line. This is a point about halfway or a little further than the actual visable distance of clear road ahead. In the short line you become aware of having to lean the bike in order to take the line you are 'aiming' for.

Taking the long line is aiming for the point of clear visable road as it come into view. With the long line you are so focused on the road that leaning the bike into the curve becomes natural and as a result you are not aware of 'having' to lean the bike in order to take your line. It's a techniqe that works because the focal length of the eye maintains the direction of the turn and the line you are aiming for.

Useing the long line makes for faster and safer cornering

Practice this and your body position will fall into place without you having to think about it.

Hope I have made this clear.

Skyryder

Or to put it another way - concentrate on where you are going not where you are! You - and the bike - will follow your eyes. This is why people see a hazard and have an accident... it is called "hazard fixation" - you see The Thing That Can Hurt You... you keep looking at The Thing That Can Hurt You... and the bike follows your eyes and HITS The Thing That Can Hurt You.

Wrench your gaze away and you'll get round The Thing more often that not.

By the "long line", I'm assuming you are referring to the Vanishing Point?

Of course, this assumes a clear road. With traffic around, your set of reference points changes and your scanning needs to take in both short and long views, as well as lights, wheel direction etc.

Erm, I think we've started overanalysing again... :bleh:

[Jackrat]

Or to put it another way - concentrate on where you are going not where you are! You - and the bike - will follow your eyes. This is why people see a hazard and have an accident... it is called "hazard fixation" - you see The Thing That Can Hurt You... you keep looking at The Thing That Can Hurt You... and the bike follows your eyes and HITS The Thing That Can Hurt You.

Wrench your gaze away and you'll get round The Thing more often that not.

By the "long line", I'm assuming you are referring to the Vanishing Point?

Of course, this assumes a clear road. With traffic around, your set of reference points changes and your scanning needs to take in both short and long views, as well as lights, wheel direction etc.

Erm, I think we've started overanalysing again... :bleh:

Yeah look were you want to go,not were you don,t,the bike does the rest.
I ride a local road were you come over a crest and can see the whole of the next three corners.Must be the three best corners in NZ,,,wonder why :msn-wink:

[Skyryder]

Or to put it another way - concentrate on where you are going not where you are! You - and the bike - will follow your eyes. This is why people see a hazard and have an accident... it is called "hazard fixation" - you see The Thing That Can Hurt You... you keep looking at The Thing That Can Hurt You... and the bike follows your eyes and HITS The Thing That Can Hurt You.

Wrench your gaze away and you'll get round The Thing more often that not.

By the "long line", I'm assuming you are referring to the Vanishing Point?

Of course, this assumes a clear road. With traffic around, your set of reference points changes and your scanning needs to take in both short and long views, as well as lights, wheel direction etc.

Erm, I think we've started overanalysing again... :bleh:

In traffic my eyes are all over the place looking for hazards. No interested in riding the edge here. Out on the highway under the right conditions another story but still don't push the edge like the young'uns. Yep the long line could be called the vanishing point. It's that part of the road that comes into view as you enter and exit the curve. You are right about the over analysing bit fun here but can be a bit dangerous out on the road. The interesting thing about this long and short line thing is that I have been riding smaller road bikes mainly to get to work. We 175 Yam and a 250 Honda. On the smaller and slower bike it is not neccessary to look so far ahead as on a bigger faster bike. As a result I had got out of the habit of taking the long line. Just rediscoverd it on the Reefton trip. It makes one hell of a difference as you are concentrating on line and not how far you have too lean the bike over as with the shorter line.

Skyryder

[White trash]

Funnily enough, I just ahd a good conversation with young MOTOXXX. Seems a good acident is all it takes to make you appreciate the things that, although unlikely, can happen.

Prepare for the worst, you'll go far.

But I'm perfect.

[moko]

I dont analyze anything,just jump on and off I go.All the stuff I`ve picked up over the years is in my head and I no more consciously think where to brake,how far to lean or whatever than I think about exactly where to place one foot in front of another when I walk down the street.By the same token as I walk down the street I`m aware of everything around me and living in this wonderful country of ours can weigh up any potential aggro,look out for traffic,notice things around me and make a detour if nescessary without having to stop and scratch my head every few minutes.On the bike it`s the same,I`m aware of everything going on,road conditions,other road-users,hazards,you name it but I take it all in my stride.I dont need to do the "talk to yourself" bit because I take everything in sub-consciously anyway,it`s called experience/being an old fart with blisters on his arse from decades of riding.Only time I ever analyse my riding is if I`m on a new bike when I`ll take it out for a few hours to acclimatise,usually out on the road for a couple of hours then find a quiet car-park to see what happens when you lock the brakes up,check out the low-speed handling e.t.c.,worse way to find out your bike has hair-trigger brakes is when a taxi pulls across the road in front of you.If you do overdo it and fall off in an empty car-park then o.k. so it`s a bummer but at least there wont be a bus up your arse to mow you down when you hit the deck.

[Bonez]

All this "line " stuff does is remind me of fishing. :ride:

[DMNTD]

Personally I just go with the flow. I do listen and try most things I hear about out but not always relevant due to diff bike/rider size etc.
Problem is if I "think" too much it throws me off my riding :mellow:
Always looking to improve though...hell I need to! :whistle: