Gob-smacked...

[MikeL]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...

[Two Smoker]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...
You got to be fucking kidding me....... Time to do some door knocking at his house :shifty:

Well thats sorted then, i can get off any ticket i want now.....

[marty]

what were the police thinking even charging him in the first place? what a waste of resources

[Hooks]

So we can let these idiots into the country and don't have to expect that they know the law or even what common sense is ?? If we were in their country we would still be held accountable if we broke any of their laws and killed someone .... Another case of the law being here for the ones who are willing to be accountable but those who have no social responsibility will always fight it and find a way to dodge theirs ..... He should have at least been deported !!!

[sAsLEX]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...

A 21ish year old in attending an english speaking university and doesnt understand simple language, what bullshit! well actually most people at uni dont speak english, even some of the lecturers struggle so.......

[jimbo600]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...

Yet another example of the failing judicial system. Rapists murderers and basterd bike killing motorists are parading around laughing. It's about time society took a harden up pill and deal to these bastards.

[James Deuce]

How about passing a manslaughter sentence for the judge if he isn't willing to punish the person who did it?

[manuboy]

It'd be a straight world without twisties....

Wonder how the MC's family feels about this??????? Closure anyone?

p.s David beckham gets off on charges of intentionally fouling some welsh soccer player because of "Lack of Evidence", AFTER making a national apology to his teammates and fans, and admitting he DID it.

It'd be a straight world without twisties....

[vifferman]

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".I thought it was "forbidden" (according to The Harold). :whocares:

The thing that got me (apart from it obviously being bullshit) is that whether he understood or not, unless he was really ashamed (which he wouldn't have been if he didn't truly didn't understand) he would've talked to his mates about it, and they would have no doubt told him to just ignore it. It's extremely unlikely that he thought he was able to keep driving; the judge must've left his reason and commonsense in his other robes.

[jrandom]

I'm glad you had the energy and fortitude to draw this to everyone's attention, Mike.

I'm more-or-less speechless, but sadly unsurprised.

Slimy, greasy, dishonest bastard. My *arse* he doesn't understand 'forbidden'. They have no conscience, no morality, no sense of responsibility... kill 'em all, I say. Kill 'em all.

[scumdog]

.

Slimy, greasy, dishonest bastard. My *arse* he doesn't understand 'forbidden'. They have no conscience, no morality, no sense of responsibility... kill 'em all, I say. Kill 'em all.

I'm with him <_<

[NC]

Why does that NOT fucken suprise me!

they should even be in the country if the don't understand the meaning of the word. They have to sit a language test (that their mates sit for them over the PHONE) to pass the verbal comprehension part of the test..

Then they are like, "me no uDRAsTNDA, horr murch TTo prayy?" ok sixhunderdollars Icran affordwd

THE FUCKEN CUNTS!!!!

[kerryg]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...

I'm not defending this young guy's actions. The consequences of driving illegally and killing someone as a result should be more in line with what you'd get for manslaughter so the penalty this guy got is a joke and unfortunately it just adds to the body of evidence that NZ is a very soft touch for immigrants. I have worked closely with several Asian people (recent immigrants) with NZ permanent residence and in some cases citizenship, al of them very good sorts (hard working, smart etc) and heard from them how NZ is seen as a nation of fools by masny Asian people. Chinese and some other Asian nationalities have a different mindset. There is no shame for them if they use our lax system to their advantage, and the shame more properly belongs to the society that drops it pants and offers itself up to all comers. I could give you so many examples that it would make your blood boil. Just one is that due to the 1 child policy in China mosr couples (predictably) have only 1 child. So when their child migrates to NZ they (the usually elderly) parents can come here too, to join their child. Something to do with 50% or more of their offspring being in NZ. They can then, after a qualifying period (2 years?) enjoy the same old age pension, healthcare etc that our mums and dads get. What is more, their offspring may be on the dole. True story. Now whose fault is that: the people who legally enjoy the benefits offered by the NZ taxpayer, or the idiots in Government who offer this remarkable largesse?

[Mr Skid]

To study at university you need to pass an english language test.

If your paying $12,000 a year to study you can afford to buy a dictionary.

This guy has no excuses for not knowing what forbidden meant.

Court reports list him as living in Newton and there's a picture of him in the Herald this morning.

I'm sure someone here would be able to help with directions if you wanted to give him some remedial english lessons.

[rodgerd]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...

That's not what bugged me.

What bugged me was that apparently "Careless driving causing death" is worth a few hours community service. Great. Kill a biker, sweep some leaves.

[StoneChucker]

Surely there must have been more to it than just "he didn't understand"??? I've always thought the fact was, ignorance is no defence?

If that was just it, then it's pathetically unjust... :mad:

[Posh Tourer :P]

Ignorance is no excuse in any other circumstance - sorry officer, I didnt realise I wasnt allowed to lane split. (Hypothetical)


He'll still give you a ticket....


So why didnt this guy get hit?

If you saw "you are XXXXXXX to drive", wouldnt you find out what XXXXXXX meant? If you dont, isnt that willful avoidance of knowledge?

[Quasievil]

See what we need to do if 100% sure of our facts is all meet at symond st on our bikes invite the media and block the road!! and get some attention drawn into it.:Punk: Im in for a starter

[Marmoot]

as I have posted in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=107822&posted=1#post107822

NZ sentencing sucks...... :mellow:

"community service" should mean breaking stones and making roads with a ball&chain tied up to the leg.... a.k.a. "hard labour"
And the word "hours" should have been "weeks".....or at least "days"
That'll save some taxpayer's money aye?

[igor]

as I have posted in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=107822&posted=1#post107822

NZ sentencing sucks...... :mellow:

"community service" should mean breaking stones and making roads with a ball&chain tied up to the leg.... a.k.a. "hard labour"
And the word "hours" should have been "weeks".....or at least "days"
That'll save some taxpayer's money aye?

gee i get called a dick on thread above for making some comments and u guys are got ya guns blazing over here an dno one says aything

figure that out :doh:

easy to see who the cops are on this thread. they are being sarcastic like me

[NC]

easy to see who the cops are on this thread. they are being sarcastic like me

*Eats Dounuts*

Wha?

[James Deuce]

gee i get called a dick on thread above for making some comments and u guys are got ya guns blazing over here an dno one says aything

figure that out :doh:

easy to see who the cops are on this thread. they are being sarcastic like me
:whistle:

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Marmoot]

gee i get called a dick on thread above for making some comments and u guys are got ya guns blazing over here an dno one says aything

figure that out :doh:

easy to see who the cops are on this thread. they are being sarcastic like me

??????????

I'm just commenting on NZ sentencing...... :mellow:

[manuboy]

See what we need to do if 100% sure of our facts is all meet at symond st on our bikes invite the media and block the road!! and get some attention drawn into it.:Punk: Im in for a starter

Now theres a KB'er i could follow... unfortunately you'd might find that the cops have more power to prevent you from blocking a road than they have of punishing such abhorrent act on our roads....???

[Ms Piggy]

Arrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhh!! What!??? This is crazy! Insane! Unjust! Unfair! Ficking ridiculous! Regardless of not understanding it was prohibiyted or not, how about f*ckin' stupid and why can't he be charged with 'careless driving'???

[igor]

Arrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhh!! What!??? This is crazy! Insane! Unjust! Unfair! Ficking ridiculous! Regardless of not understanding it was prohibiyted or not, how about f*ckin' stupid and why can't he be charged with 'careless driving'???

if ya see my thread, it has the whole story cut and pasted

then ya could get the whole story b4 ya jumped in without looking

oops no water in the pool

but yes i am a dick

[Coldkiwi]

that is madness.

Why not a manslaughter charge?? Manslaughter has certainly been used on other stupid drivers causing death, why not this guy?? Any cops here know what it takes before you could successfully try that?

[igor]

that is madness.

Why not a manslaughter charge?? Manslaughter has certainly been used on other stupid drivers causing death, why not this guy?? Any cops here know what it takes before you could successfully try that?

Mans laughter has to be an unlawful act, driving whilst disqualified, stolen vehicle, driving really bad

Care less driving 'not the actions of a prudent driver"

[Ms Piggy]

if ya see my thread, it has the whole story cut and pasted

then ya could get the whole story b4 ya jumped in without looking

oops no water in the pool

but yes i am a dick
Wether you're a dick or not isn't really something that interests me.

I was just commenting on how unjust it is that the guy didn't get charged.

I did read you post & the article btw - did I miss something??? It is possible b/c I'm a Uni student too. ;)

[Hitcher]

And then people wonder why there's no respect for our "justice" system.

If this sort of things continues, people will start taking the "law" into their own hands.

Doesn't do much for racial tolerance either...

[igor]

Wether you're a dick or not isn't really something that interests me.

I was just commenting on how unjust it is that the guy didn't get charged.

I did read you post & the article btw - did I miss something??? It is possible b/c I'm a Uni student too. ;)

he did get charged. am i misisng something

Student Bo Cong pleaded guilty to careless driving causing the death of James and injuring Joe, who recently turned 21 and still suffers from a leg injury suffered in the March 25 crash.

[2_SL0]

This is not the Police fault, its the system not working correctly. It happins alot. Its a depressing fact.

[spudchucka]

that is madness.

Why not a manslaughter charge?? Manslaughter has certainly been used on other stupid drivers causing death, why not this guy?? Any cops here know what it takes before you could successfully try that?
There would have to be other aggravating factors, driver was pissed and its the 9th time he's been done for drink drivin, toxicology shows he was under the influence of drugs, driving a stolen vehicle, multiple previous convictions for careless, dangerous, reckless, EBA etc etc etc.

[Milky]

Had a similar response to the guy who killed a great mate's mother. Dunno if you lot remember Anne Lester - killed after an asian student ran a red light in Mt Roskill at 430am.
some bits from the herald in relation to it:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3565258
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm?storyID=3561842&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&thesecondsubsection=latest

Having talked with the family lawyer since then, things are going through an appeal process, asking for more leniency WRT apologies, donations, remorse etc. He thinks that it is mostly a ploy to stall things here so that the driver isn't deported, but can be collected by his folks and taken back home. Deportation is a spot on his record which will impact heavily on where he can travel in future, and I am sure they want to avoid that at all costs :brick:
In talking to the lawyer, I heard that the guy didnt even come over to help after the crash - sat on the side of the road and played with his mobile phone... :angry2:

interesting link I found http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3602733&reportID=57539

[Ms Piggy]

he did get charged. am i misisng something

Student Bo Cong pleaded guilty to careless driving causing the death of James and injuring Joe, who recently turned 21 and still suffers from a leg injury suffered in the March 25 crash.

Ahhhh ok, thanks for that...however:

"Judge Simon Lockhart, QC, found Cong not guilty of driving while forbidden to drive. He said there was a possibility Cong did not know what "forbidden" meant because of his limited English.

Yesterday Cong was sentenced to 250 hours' community work and disqualified from driving for two years."

This is unjust, unfair etc, etc, etc. 250 hours community service for killing someone! :no:

Maybe you are missing something - I hope you find it. :shifty:

Btw - not making any digs at the Police but the Justice system.

[aff-man]

See what we need to do if 100% sure of our facts is all meet at symond st on our bikes invite the media and block the road!! and get some attention drawn into it.:Punk: Im in for a starter

Fuck it i am in to. Hell i have been around heaps of asians who don't speak english properly but it still is no excuse for a criminal action. shit could i go and kill someone and then plead not guilty because i was to stupid to understand the word "forbidden". If you live in this counrty you obide by all the rules and laws , even if you understand them or not you still have to deal with the consiquences.

So who is in i think it's media time. Hell even some of those harley gang boys might be interested in a protest of this sort, cause it could have been one of them!!

[Yokai]

The consequences of driving illegally and killing someone as a result should be more in line with what you'd get for manslaughter

I'm gonna snip the politics because I agree. We get all POed about how difficult things are in other countries but don't realise the crap that we allow here... BUT...

Just as a matter if interest, in California if such an occurrence occurred (oooohhh weird language) then you'd be done for Murder. It would be an a posteriori offense [sic] due to assault with a deadly weapon [the car] and you are deemed to know that the car is a deadly weapon. Not having a license [sic] would mean that you would be flouting the law there too - you'd get the proverbial book.

Yokai.

[Mr Skid]

See what we need to do if 100% sure of our facts is all meet at symond st on our bikes invite the media and block the road!! and get some attention drawn into it.:Punk: Im in for a starter

I'd be scared of getting run over, but if it was organised well I'd be involved.

I'm guessing this guy is still studying at auckland uni. I was pondering what effect it would have if some posters were to appear around the university precincts with this worthless individuals picture, name, and description of his crime.

I'm of two minds, as today was the last day of term (exams still to go though) and the possible effect it might have on the victims family. What do people think about this?

[Hitcher]

I'm guessing this guy is still studying at auckland uni. I was pondering what effect it would have if some posters were to appear around the university precincts with this worthless individuals picture, name, and description of his crime.
Be careful what you post publicly. This dude, no matter how "worthless" you think he may be, has been found guilty and convicted by the Court. The adequacy or otherwise of his sentence has been determined by the Court. This is where your beef should lie (if that is truly your concern), rather than with the perpetrator.

[Ms Piggy]

Be careful what you post publicly. This dude, no matter how "worthless" you think he may be, has been found guilty and convicted by the Court. The adequacy or otherwise of his sentence has been determined by the Court. This is where your beef should lie (if that is truly your concern), rather than with the perpetrator.
Yeah I'm with Mr H. The other point is that even though his sentence was pretty lame (to make a bit of an understatement) it doesn't mean the young guy himself doesn't feel bad about it. Let's not get into witch huntin' people. :crazy:

[Mr Skid]

Be careful what you post publicly. This dude, no matter how "worthless" you think he may be, has been found guilty and convicted by the Court. The adequacy or otherwise of his sentence has been determined by the Court. This is where your beef should lie (if that is truly your concern), rather than with the perpetrator.

Thanks for the advice. It was more an 'out loud' thought than anything else. I agree that it's the courts fault regarding how light his sentence was.

He did plead guilty to the careless driving causing death charge (though I think it'd be difficult for legal council to think up a defence in this instance) but I find his defence of the driving while forbidden charge laughable.

I am assuming that the judge's decision about the possibility of not understanding the word 'forbidden' was based upon arguments put forward by the defence council, rather than arrived at independently by the judge.

If he understood the ticket (which it is my belief that he did) then he should not have been driving. If he did not understand the ticket, then it is up to him to find out what it meant. Be that by asking the cop that was issuing it, or consulting a dictionary to find the translation.

To plead not guilty to this charge strikes me as a cop out.

Maybe I'm being overly emotive about the issue, but I had to walk past the scene on the way to a lecture, and seeing a bike lying upside down against the side of a car doesn't give you good feelings.

[MikeL]

Can the police appeal this? Surely, regardless of the individual circumstances, there is an important point of law involved here, as well as a precedent that will be seized upon...
What happened to the idea that ignorance of the law is no excuse? Do we make exceptions for foreigners? Would the same plea work for me in France, Spain, Japan or China?

[aff-man]

Can the police appeal this? Surely, regardless of the individual circumstances, there is an important point of law involved here, as well as a precedent that will be seized upon...
What happened to the idea that ignorance of the law is no excuse? Do we make exceptions for foreigners? Would the same plea work for me in France, Spain, Japan or China?

Hell no they would throw your sorry ass in jail. I wonder if we could cause a public outcry and then the police prosecutor would have to appeal so the police look like they are doing what is in the publics interest. I bet if he had hit an mp's or other officials car/bike and done seriouse damage he would be sitting in jail right about now

[Jackrat]

Hmmmmmm.I deal with people that don't speak good english every day.
They don't know what I mean when I ask "where's the tyres you told me over the phone would be on it" or "why isn't your ass biteing fucken dog tyed up like you said it would be" or "why did you tell me it's an 88 when it's really a 78".Oh yeah they don't speaka da english bro.
Funny thing is when they think their getting $100 for their shit heap and I say
in a VERY kiwi accent "I'll give ya' $25" because I'm in a good mood"
Hey they speak bloody good english then.
Bring back hanging I reckon :yeah:

[toads]

...thunderstruck, astounded, incredulous, discombobulated...
Words fail me.

An overseas student driving without a licence who did a U-turn in Symonds St and killed a motorcyclist has been found not guilty of driving while disqualified because he did not know the meaning of "prohibited".

C'mon all you young'uns, the product of our modern education system, put your ignorance to use! Forget about your demerit points, tear up your tickets, laugh at the law...


well nothing surprises me, but I feel very very pissed off that yet again another person who deserves to be appropriately dealt with is getting away with murder ( well almost murder)

[spudchucka]

Be careful what you post publicly. This dude, no matter how "worthless" you think he may be, has been found guilty and convicted by the Court. The adequacy or otherwise of his sentence has been determined by the Court. This is where your beef should lie (if that is truly your concern), rather than with the perpetrator.
Just when the lynching mob was about to ride out...............the voice of reason prevails.

Shame, I'd been hoping lynching mobs would make a come back some day!

[spudchucka]

He did plead guilty to the careless driving causing death charge (though I think it'd be difficult for legal council to think up a defence in this instance) but I find his defence of the driving while forbidden charge laughable.

I am assuming that the judge's decision about the possibility of not understanding the word 'forbidden' was based upon arguments put forward by the defence council, rather than arrived at independently by the judge.

In my experience the courts never take a hard line over a Driving While Forbidden charge. Pretty much every person I've charged has either been convicted and discharged or discharged without conviction. The charge carries a $10,000 fine, there is no term of imprisonment. From a law enforcement point of view the only positive consequence to charging someone with forbidden driving is that their car gets impounded for 28 days.

[2_SL0]

In my experience the courts never take a hard line over a Driving While Forbidden charge. Pretty much every person I've charged has either been convicted and discharged or discharged without conviction. The charge carries a $10,000 fine, there is no term of imprisonment. From a law enforcement point of view the only positive consequence to charging someone with forbidden driving is that their car gets impounded for 28 days.


That is just to soft. :disapint: