Laser jammers

[hospitalfood]

just bought a radar detector online, the company also offers help with laser jammers.
anybody know anything about laser jammers? anything at all?

thanks

adam.

[ipod1098]

what do ya wanna know?

[Boob Johnson]

what do ya wanna know?
Apparently, they jam laser's :shit:

I dunno just something I heard :rolleyes:

[bugjuice]

you know the way lasers work? bouncing a signal off you, and it times how long it takes to get back to the gun yada yada..??

well the jammer does something to the signal, like flooding it with tons of signals, so it gets back at some stupid speed, and records you doing 400kph, which you're obviously not, or it manages to scramble it all together and not record a speed at all. At which point the offisur has scratched his head, and you're long gone already. If you're obviously burnin it, chances are they'll chase ya, but they won't have a fixed speed, so scrub off if you see blue n reds in the rear, and what's the worst they can do? (cue someone to make smart comment)

no idea how effective they are, not used them. Radars aren't the cleverest things anyway. One radar recorded a brick wall traveling at something like 86kph apparently. Was on the web, must be true..

[Boob Johnson]

One radar recorded a brick wall traveling at something like 86kph apparently. Was on the web, must be true..
Yeah well I bet my brick wall can go faster than YOUR brick wall :bleh:


Yeah that's pretty much what I heard, but I also heard they are illegal to use in NZ. Much like a bong............you can buy one just don't use it :rolleyes:

[kneescraper]

Im yet to find a brave enough man to try out a jammer...you would be pretty pissed if it didnt work like it should have.

[NighthawkNZ]

just bought a radar detector online, the company also offers help with laser jammers.
anybody know anything about laser jammers? anything at all?


Ahhh the joys of electronic warefare... <_<

[necrolyte]

Im yet to find a brave enough man to try out a jammer...you would be pretty pissed if it didnt work like it should have.

My old boss had a sort of jammer deal, apparently it sent a signal back to the coppers rader to say he was doing 100km/h. Story is that he was going thru a 70 zone and a cop done him for doing 100km/h in a 70. The cop was like "i'm sure you can't have been doing 100 but thats was the radar says"

So unluckly enough he got a ticket for doing the speed limit. :Police:

[Mikkel]

you know the way lasers work? bouncing a signal off you, and it times how long it takes to get back to the gun yada yada..??

well the jammer does something to the signal, like flooding it with tons of signals, so it gets back at some stupid speed, and records you doing 400kph, which you're obviously not, or it manages to scramble it all together and not record a speed at all. At which point the offisur has scratched his head, and you're long gone already. If you're obviously burnin it, chances are they'll chase ya, but they won't have a fixed speed, so scrub off if you see blue n reds in the rear, and what's the worst they can do? (cue someone to make smart comment)

no idea how effective they are, not used them. Radars aren't the cleverest things anyway. One radar recorded a brick wall traveling at something like 86kph apparently. Was on the web, must be true..

/Nerdmode

Traffic lasers rely on the doppler effect to measure your speed. When the laser hits a moving target the reflected signal will be subjected to a small frequency shift (red shift (frequency decrease) for targets moving away from the observer and blue shift (frequency increase) for targets moving towards the observer).
Now this is all based on Mr. Einsteins relativity theory and a precise measurement of the frequency shift can be used to calculate the speed of the target. And even though the traffic speeds are very "unrelativistic" (i.e. nothing REALLY funky happens) the equations hold and the detectors can be very very accurate giving a very precise speed measurement. Obviously some things can fuck such measurements up and that's what the jammer is for.

The jammer works (as far as I've been able to find out) by emitting a broadband signal in the laser band which will flood the detector and the return signal can not be picked out unless the reflected signal is very large (i.e. the target is very close to the detector).
As the jammer emits its jamming signal it warns you that you are being pinged and you have time to slow down before you get too close to the laser gun. When you reach legal speeds you turn of the jammer and let the nice police officer get his reading - and on you go.

[kneescraper]

Ahhhh hahahahahah thats classic, you would have thought it would have a brains to see when hes gone under 100km/h and switch off. Thats so funny though....mahahahah classic :mad::clap:



My old boss had a sort of jammer deal, apparently it sent a signal back to the coppers rader to say he was doing 100km/h. Story is that he was going thru a 70 zone and a cop done him for doing 100km/h in a 70. The cop was like "i'm sure you can't have been doing 100 but thats was the radar says"

So unluckly enough he got a ticket for doing the speed limit. :Police:

[Mental Trousers]

/Nerdmode
....
The jammer works (as far as I've been able to find out) by emitting a broadband signal in the laser band which will flood the detector and the return signal can not be picked out unless the reflected signal is very large (i.e. the target is very close to the detector).

Basically, the jammer is spitting out laser wavelength noise, burying the reflected signal in static making it impossible for the detector to pick it out and therefore unable to read your speed. However, this only works until you are close to the detector (inside it's burn through range). Then the reflected signal becomes stronger than the noise that's trying to hide it so the detector can detect it and figure out what speed you're doing even though you've got the jammer on!!

The other way of doing it is if you know what wavelength the laser radars use (or you can detect the wavelength) you can broadcast a signal that fakes a red/blue shift, spewing red shifted signals behind and blue shifted forward. Of course it still suffers from the same problem the broadband signal does, ie burn through range.

[ArcherWC]

For the price of one, when was the last time you actually saw a laser being used.
Personally I have had all of one laser ping in the last two years of using a detector. Not worth it to me

[Boob Johnson]

For the price of one, when was the last time you actually saw a laser being used.
Personally I have had all of one laser ping in the last two years of using a detector. Not worth it to me
mmm would of thought there would be high usage in Auckland, certainly on the motorway(s)

[kneescraper]

I know they are used quite often in Gisborne...infact one Police man parks out side my house trying to ping some naughty passer-bys.

[hospitalfood]

ok....i know more than i did, please keep it coming.
Archer, how much are they?? and how often do you get pinged by radar??
bought the same detector as yourself.

[Boob Johnson]

how much are they??

M25 = $650
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Radar-detectors/auction-126365190.htm


M50 = $980
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Radar-detectors/auction-125872205.htm



Not sure of the dif between the two

[Blackbird]

There's only two on the market that have been independently tested and stand up as absolutely reliable, the best being the Blinder. I'm with Archer though, the risk from a laser is very low so I haven't bothered to buy one (ahem, not that my wife would let me anyway:argue:) DO NOT BUY THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN JAMMER, IT DOESN'T WORK.

[hospitalfood]

mmmm, seems like its not worth it. you can get paint on stuff for the front of your bike thats makes it harder to lock on to, not sure if its for radar or laser but my guess is radar. it is heaps cheaper i think, like about $40, don't know if it makes the bike look like shit? probably.

[bucket boy]

I have the blinder m25 along with bell xr or sti driver wat ever want to call it
the difference between m25 and m50 is m 25 2 sensors ,m50 4 sensors remembering these were brought out for cages so when you mount on scooter you only need m25

[Boob Johnson]

I have the blinder m25 along with bell xr or sti driver wat ever want to call it
the difference between m25 and m50 is m 25 2 sensors ,m50 4 sensors remembering these were brought out for cages so when you mount on scooter you only need m25
Work ok for ya? Saved ya before? Any hassles from cops (as in did they know u had it)

[bucket boy]

they work have on and of switch for the money i wouldnt get another one ive seen about 4 radar guns since fitted and detecter had already gone of warning coppers no youve fitted one so make sure everything is perfect on bike cause they dont like them

[Sparkz]

I hate to rain on the parade, but Lidar, or police laser does not use doppler at all. There is no phase shift to speak of.

It sends out a really short (about 15ns) pulse of Infrared light at 905nm and then times how long the reflection takes to get back to it. This gives the distance to target (cos of the speed of light and all). It then sends out another pulse and measures how long that one took. The difference between the two gives the distance travelled by the target, and using the time between pulses, speed is calculated.

The pulses are sent out every 1ms, or at 1kHz. The trick to confusing it is to send out laser pulses (or just 905nm infrared from heaps of IR emitters) at a much higher rate than this to simulate noise. 100kHz to 1MHz will suffice.

A laser jammer is really easy to make, and I suspect most commercial ones should work OK. The tricky thing to jam is radar. That does use doppler and is a bugger to jam.

[Mikkel]

I hate to rain on the parade, but Lidar, or police laser does not use doppler at all. There is no phase shift to speak of.

It sends out a really short (about 15ns) pulse of Infrared light at 905nm and then times how long the reflection takes to get back to it. This gives the distance to target (cos of the speed of light and all). It then sends out another pulse and measures how long that one took. The difference between the two gives the distance travelled by the target, and using the time between pulses, speed is calculated.

The pulses are sent out every 1ms, or at 1kHz. The trick to confusing it is to send out laser pulses (or just 905nm infrared from heaps of IR emitters) at a much higher rate than this to simulate noise. 100kHz to 1MHz will suffice.

A laser jammer is really easy to make, and I suspect most commercial ones should work OK. The tricky thing to jam is radar. That does use doppler and is a bugger to jam.

Nice one! :niceone:

That makes perfect sense. It's impossible to make electronics fast enough to react in time if it has to analyse the incoming signal and send out a jamming signal to match the reflection of the incoming signal.
1 ms however is heaps of time for the jammer to start it's jamming before the second measurement is taken.

Thanks mate!

[Gremlin]

mmm would of thought there would be high usage in Auckland, certainly on the motorway(s)
and 11.30pm on a weeknight... so far in the distance, you never saw the cop until well after he checked you :shit:


The tricky thing to jam is radar. That does use doppler and is a bugger to jam.
I want strawberry jam!!! :woohoo:

[Swoop]

mmm would of thought there would be high usage in Auckland, certainly on the motorway(s)
Plenty in use on the motorways, AND ALSO inner city/suburb streets! Was lasered in New Lynn the other week. No luck for Mr Plod though...:laugh:

mmmm, seems like its not worth it. you can get paint on stuff for the front of your bike thats makes it harder to lock on to, not sure if its for radar or laser but my guess is radar. it is heaps cheaper i think, like about $40, don't know if it makes the bike look like shit? probably.
The paint-on stuff??
You are better to go and put a tinfoil lining into your helmet.......

[hospitalfood]

already use tin-foil in the helmet, trying to keep the thoughts in....or out???

[homer]

Nice one! :niceone:

That makes perfect sense. It's impossible to make electronics fast enough to react in time if it has to analyse the incoming signal and send out a jamming signal to match the reflection of the incoming signal.
1 ms however is heaps of time for the jammer to start it's jamming before the second measurement is taken.

Thanks mate!


Confused the hell outa me and i dont have either......>>!!!!!:confused:

[JMemonic]

For the price of one, when was the last time you actually saw a laser being used.

About a week ago one a 2 laned road here in a 50K zone where folks regularly push 70 odd, there was one guy with a laser and another 4 collecting cars he was pinging, they had a good queue lined up when I went past.

[davereid]

Traffic lasers rely on the doppler effect to measure your speed.

Normal radio frequency radar works on doppler. I'm not so sure about laser, I'd be surprised, its much better suited to measuring the transmission time/reflection equation than doppler, which is very tricky to measure at the very shout wavelength of laser.

The police have been reluctant to loan me any spped detection equipment to test my theories, but have a look at http"www.eslnz.com/radar.html" for a summary of those things I am sure of.

[Mikkel]

Normal radio frequency radar works on doppler. I'm not so sure about laser, I'd be surprised, its much better suited to measuring the transmission time/reflection equation than doppler, which is very tricky to measure at the very shout wavelength of laser.

The police have been reluctant to loan me any spped detection equipment to test my theories, but have a look at http"www.eslnz.com/radar.html" for a summary of those things I am sure of.

*nodnod* :yes:

I already acknowledged this when Sparkz put it down so well a few posts back.

And yeah, they are a bit stingy the police about allowing us to try out their toys.

[zx10ruser]

There's only two on the market that have been independently tested and stand up as absolutely reliable, the best being the Blinder. I'm with Archer though, the risk from a laser is very low so I haven't bothered to buy one (ahem, not that my wife would let me anyway:argue:) DO NOT BUY THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN JAMMER, IT DOESN'T WORK.


If your talking about the rocky mountain laser detectors off trademe those work awesome.... if the only thing you want to pick up is petrol stations! biggest piece of crap ive ever bought

[Mikkel]

Well, a laser detector isn't much use. When you can pick it up they've already taken their measurement...

Unlike radar the lasers aren't scattered all around the place.

[Max Preload]

mmm would of thought there would be high usage in Auckland, certainly on the motorway(s)

Certainly is.

Southbound on the southern motorway:
Greenlane interchange
Mt Wellington
Manurewa
Takainini

Northbound:
Manukau
Papatoetoe
Highbrook
Brow of the hill between Otahuhu & Mt Wellington
Mt Wellington
Between Mt Wellington & Penrose where the cell tower is
Market Road

And that's just in the last few months. I've even seen the bikes parked up with the cop using the laser.

[avgas]

Well, a laser detector isn't much use. When you can pick it up they've already taken their measurement...
Not so, laser quite happily defracts and reflects - but the compounds that they coat vehicles with to do so is all hush hush

[Tank]

Have you guys ever just thought of not speeding?



































just kidding

[Mikkel]

Not so, laser quite happily defracts and reflects - but the compounds that they coat vehicles with to do so is all hush hush

No doubt about that it both defract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction) (which is not really that important in this situation), refracts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refraction) (and I don't think this matter too much either) and reflects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_%28physics%29)(i.e. bounces around - which is what matters). However, the lidar used by police is focused to a smallish point whereas the radar has a much larger profile.
If we talk radars the cone from a stationary speed camera van is much narrower than that from a cop car which is why you need a good (sensitive) radar detector to save you from the vans, whereas the cop car ones you can pick up easily if they are turned on.

As for the whole "magic paint" thingy. It's true that you can coat surfaces so that they absorb more of the incoming radiation and thus have a smaller reflection. I doubt that you'll find any coating that will reduce your profile enough for both radar (radio waves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_waves) - wave length 10-100 mm) and laser (IR - 905 nm wavelength according to Sparkz) simply because the wavelength gap is huge.

[Swoop]

Well, a laser detector isn't much use.
Hence the reason for the title of this thread... (or at least, the wonderful product that Blinder makes).

[SpeedyBoy]

If you can afford a Laser Blinder go for it! Just be aware that it's a manual install, not just something you plug in a off you go, you have to mount the sensor and transmitter separately and by your headlight(s) - this is not to say that it is difficult, just takes time.

I myself use LaserVeil (http://www.laserveil.com/) and have noticed it to be rather effective - but you do have to be paying attention. I also run a Valentine1 radar/laser detector. This combination has paid for itself a number of times over.

My 2c from over 3 years of experience.

[Swoop]

If you can afford a Laser Blinder go for it! Just be aware that it's a manual install,
Calvotech, on the North Shore, will install it on a bike for around $100-$150.
They also supply them and Techmount products.

[vifferman]

As for the whole "magic paint" thingy. It's true that you can coat surfaces so that they absorb more of the incoming radiation and thus have a smaller reflection. I doubt that you'll find any coating that will reduce your profile enough for both radar (radio waves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_waves) - wave length 10-100 mm) and laser (IR - 905 nm wavelength according to Sparkz) simply because the wavelength gap is huge.
They tested this on "Mythbusters" and found that the 'magic paint' actually improved the reflected signal, reducing the device's response time!

[hospitalfood]

totally confused now..............
and Tank, that was funny.

[Mikkel]

They tested this on "Mythbusters" and found that the 'magic paint' actually improved the reflected signal, reducing the device's response time!

Not many people realise this... but it's the same holding company that owns the company manufacturing the police radars AND the company that makes the paint.

Oh, and the holding company is run by the gub'mint and so is the police... Coincidence? I think not!

Also, it has actually been statistically proven that it's safer to speed - very very few people get killed in crashes at 300 km/h. As such 300 km/h must be considered a safe speed!

The system is trying to kill us while bleeding us dry on the speeding tickets we get while trying to stay alive and the merchandise to try and save us that expense. True story!

:lol:

[avgas]

actually what they do is design (i.e. shape) to dissolve the big wavelength (interhamonics) signals and coat to defract or reflect (depending on angles) the lazer signals so yes it does do both. But no i am not talking about that crap paint that you get. I'm more talking about military based designs that avoid detection.
Rumor has it the new lambo had an engineer specifically to see if he could integrate some of these concepts into the vehicle. I suspect that is all bullshit though.

As for the speed saves lives, that is bullshit. It is exactly like saying high voltage/current has less deaths, less people die of chewing lead and less people die of 10,000 degree temperatures.
How many people do 300kph? Could every person you know do 300kph fine? right now i would put money down that 50% of the population struggle to do 100kph faultlessly.

[Mikkel]

actually what they do is design (i.e. shape) to dissolve the big wavelength (interhamonics) signals and coat to defract or reflect (depending on angles) the lazer signals so yes it does do both. But no i am not talking about that crap paint that you get. I'm more talking about military based designs that avoid detection.
Rumor has it the new lambo had an engineer specifically to see if he could integrate some of these concepts into the vehicle. I suspect that is all bullshit though.

Not to be an arse, but diffraction has NO relavance in the matter of speed measuring using neither LIDAR nor RADAR. If you look at a surface the only relevance is the reflection and absorption characteristics - and reflection characteristics includes scattering (think mirror vs. a rough metal surface).


As for the speed saves lives, that is bullshit. It is exactly like saying high voltage/current has less deaths, less people die of chewing lead and less people die of 10,000 degree temperatures.
How many people do 300kph? Could every person you know do 300kph fine? right now i would put money down that 50% of the population struggle to do 100kph faultlessly.

Sorry to ruin your party mate... But if you don't get the irony of the entire post in which I stated that "fact" you're beyond help... meh!

[Pancakes]

Laser can be generated with very little power. Just generate a nonsense signal the whole time with a detector just to tell you to button off before you get too close? The RADAR fooling paint isn't something you just buy and definatly not for $40! It was layers and hollow sphere's inside that let the signal in then let it go at an angle that won't be picked up from the source direction.

[SpeedyBoy]

I can't resist the temptation to throw myself back into this fray to clarify that LaserVeil does NOTHING to prevent RADAR, hence the name LASERveil... and it works for me in the REAL world, so make up your own mind.

[avgas]

Not to be an arse, but diffraction has NO relavance in the matter of speed measuring using neither LIDAR nor RADAR. If you look at a surface the only relevance is the reflection and absorption characteristics - and reflection characteristics includes scattering (think mirror vs. a rough metal surface).

How do you think it is absorbed rather than reflected.....not everything hits a surface at 90 deg

[Mikkel]

How do you think it is absorbed rather than reflected.....not everything hits a surface at 90 deg

Absorption happens when the energy of the photon is spent in exciting valence electrons, in the atoms constituting the material, to a higher energy state. This excited state can undergo a wide range of internal conversions before returning to the ground state. Some of the more notable are: Vibrational energy (heat) and spontaneous emission (flourescence).

As for not everything hitting surfaces at normal incidence (90 deg) - a more correct statement would be that most doesn't. However, most surfaces are not flat and the light will under go scattering as it is reflected. If you signal is strong enough and has a large enough "spot size" there will be fairly strong signals scattered in almost every direction, which in turn may reflect and scatter of other surfaces. (i.e. the signal bounces around until it has all been absorbed or has left the atmosphere)

[ArcherWC]

most of the "guns" you see the plod holding are still radar, not laser.
I have literally had 1 laser pickup in the last two years and have done over 50,000 kays all over Auckland

[avgas]

energy of the photon is spent
I'm not going to continue this argument anymore, it is pointless for me to continue past this point. I will simply leave you with your quote, if you wish to continue this on your own - you can play your own devils advocate. And think of why i have used this quote.

[Winston001]

The RADAR fooling paint isn't something you just buy and definitely not for $40! It was layers and hollow sphere's inside that let the signal in then let it go at an angle that won't be picked up from the source direction.

Just searching around about jammers and found this thread.

So far as "stealth" paint is concerned, my understanding is that the US stealth bombers are painted in specific layers. The effect is to bounce the radar signal twice - a millisecond or so apart, and the two waves hit each other. Being the same frequency they then cancel each other out. Neat huh!

So....jammers aren't really an alternative to a good detector?

[Gremlin]

So....jammers aren't really an alternative to a good detector?
detection is useless with laser, it warns ya, and at the same point, you're nicked... so jamming (strawberry please) is your best bet for laser.

Radar... (bar instant on - you're nicked, believe me) you have that small chance... Really, I use it more like a game, get a warning, and see if you can spot him/her. When I've been naughty its barely made any difference to the outcome.

[CookMySock]

The effect is to bounce the radar signal twice - a millisecond or so apart, and the two waves hit each other. Being the same frequency they then cancel each other out. An unlikely explanation. For the two signals to arrive back at the reciever 180 degrees out of phase, the two reflecting surfaces have to be half a wavelength apart - thats a few millimeters, and we are talking thousandths of a microsecond, not milliseconds.


So....jammers aren't really an alternative to a good detector?yep. Or a good set of eyes - you can spot a cop car at the far end of a straight quite easily - a long time before he has a solid microwave lock on you.

DB

[Swoop]

So....jammers aren't really an alternative to a good detector?
Definately not.
Laser will have you instantly, without warning, unless you are in a line of traffic and the plod is good enought to zap a few others in the near vicinity.
A jammer will negate this threat.

Radar will require picking up signal at the longest range possible to be aware of the threat. Plod using the radar, even instant-on, on other vehicles up the road is the best detection. Use the best detector on the market that your wallet can get.

[marty]

At last count there was ONE laser in the whole Waikato, and from experience, it is a pain to use - the instant-on Stalker is much better, not to mention safer, as it is used from inside the car - it is just too dangerous to step out and stop cars travelling at high speed, and takes too much time to get in the car and give chase. Laser is really effective on passing lanes, or on an overbridge, but reality is it is not the weapon of choice. I did 50000kms last year, much of it on SH1 in the Waikato/South Auckland, and according to Mr Bell got pinged by laser once, by the Botanical Gardens at Manurewa. I got tracked by, or picked up signal of a Stalker, almost every day.

[Biggles2000]

actually what they do is design (i.e. shape) to dissolve the big wavelength (interhamonics) signals and coat to defract or reflect (depending on angles) the lazer signals so yes it does do both. But no i am not talking about that crap paint that you get. I'm more talking about military based designs that avoid detection.
Rumor has it the new lambo had an engineer specifically to see if he could integrate some of these concepts into the vehicle. I suspect that is all bullshit though.



No its not bullshit. I have a lotus and it is very small and low, made up of relatively low radar reflecting (soft) materials like fiber glass ans carbon fiber and has almost zero flat frontal surfaces. I know from experience that the police have a jolly difficult time getting the radar to lock onto it.

[Biggles2000]

I got a laser warning going into the Lyttleton tunnel, its the only one I have had in 18 months. I believe they were sitting in the tunnel control building pinging vehicles after the 100kph where it drops to 50kph

[Forest]

According to wikipedia, each B-2 stealth bomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit) costs about 550 million USD to manufacture.

Which makes me think that it would take a wee bit more than a coat of paint to make a vehicle invisible to laser & radar speed detectors.

[R6_kid]

According to wikipedia, each B-2 stealth bomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit) costs about 550 million USD to manufacture.

Which makes me think that it would take a wee bit more than a coat of paint to make a vehicle invisible to laser & radar speed detectors.

Do some more research and you'll find that the surface of the B2 (and F-117) used a painted on substance to absorb the radar/laser waves/light. Technological development has since meant that it can be integrated into the panels rather than just being painted on (or it may be the other way around). There is a reason they dont fly in wet weather...

"The B-2 uses radar absorbent material and coatings that require climate-controlled hangars for maintenance.["

[CookMySock]

I have a lotus and it is very small and low, made up of relatively low radar reflecting (soft) materials like fiber glass ans carbon fiber and has almost zero flat frontal surfaces. I know from experience that the police have a jolly difficult time getting the radar to lock onto it.Its hard to lock because simply because it presents a small frontal surface.

Doppler Radar will get a very good reflection on microwave-transparent items. We used to experiment with a Gunnplexor - it would get excellent doppler signals from plastic balls and rolled up tissue paper.

DB

[Blackbird]

According to wikipedia, each B-2 stealth bomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit) costs about 550 million USD to manufacture.

Which makes me think that it would take a wee bit more than a coat of paint to make a vehicle invisible to laser & radar speed detectors.

Microwave returns from your headlight reflector in the event of a head-on pulse is your biggest issue - forget paint and the like! As has been said often enough before, you can't practically jam microwave radar, only laser and even that isn't totally guaranteed (especially with the number of rip-off "protection" products on the market). I think there are still only 2 which have survived independent tests with near-perfect results.

[CookMySock]

As has been said often enough before, you can't practically jam microwave radar, only laseray ? sure you can. Shoot a 34GHz signal at the radar unit and blind it. Piece of piss. Now, where to GET a 34GHz high-power signal source is the question.

DB

[Blackbird]

ay ? sure you can. Shoot a 34GHz signal at the radar unit and blind it. Piece of piss. Now, where to GET a 34GHz high-power signal source is the question.

DB
The emphasis was on PRACTICAL (as in not towing a trailer full of electronics behind you). I'll stick with my Escort 8500 and eyes in the meantime:2thumbsup

[CookMySock]

The emphasis was on PRACTICAL (as in not towing a trailer full of electronics behind you). I'll stick with my Escort 8500 and eyes in the meantime:2thumbsuphehe, yup. Eyes have always done me good. The detector picks up all the mufties.

DB

[avgas]

no idea how effective they are, not used them. Radars aren't the cleverest things anyway. One radar recorded a brick wall traveling at something like 86kph apparently. Was on the web, must be true..
Doesn't surprise me - some people think that brick walls or even (heaven forbid) cheese cutters jump out at them while they are on a bike. Imagine that damage a wall doing 86kph does to you.
Last time i saw that it had "Hino" tagged on it.

[avgas]

According to wikipedia, each B-2 stealth bomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit) costs about 550 million USD to manufacture.

Which makes me think that it would take a wee bit more than a coat of paint to make a vehicle invisible to laser & radar speed detectors.
Ok tell me how much the follow cost to manufacture at the time....
-Ball point pen
-Kevlar (or as 3M had it as - codename : Spiderweb)
-Cro-Mo
Everything is expensive until the chinese have to make it.

[marty]

Microwave returns from your headlight reflector in the event of a head-on pulse is your biggest issue - forget paint and the like! As has been said often enough before, you can't practically jam microwave radar, only laser and even that isn't totally guaranteed (especially with the number of rip-off "protection" products on the market). I think there are still only 2 which have survived independent tests with near-perfect results.


i have always found headlights rather ineffective to focus laser on. sure it is a concave surface, but where the beam should concentrate to come back forward again, instead there is a big light bulb assembly, that disrupts the return beam. any reflectors (like on jackets or numberplates) facing forward are the best by far. i have experimented at many different distances - could get a return from 1000m easily off a number plate, but struggle on the same vehicle at 200m off the headlights.

[Blackbird]

i have always found headlights rather ineffective to focus laser on. sure it is a concave surface, but where the beam should concentrate to come back forward again, instead there is a big light bulb assembly, that disrupts the return beam. any reflectors (like on jackets or numberplates) facing forward are the best by far. i have experimented at many different distances - could get a return from 1000m easily off a number plate, but struggle on the same vehicle at 200m off the headlights.

I take it you're talking about lasers? I was specifically talking about microwaves as per Ka band. I agree about a laser.

[vagrant]

ay ? sure you can. Shoot a 34GHz signal at the radar unit and blind it. Piece of piss. Now, where to GET a 34GHz high-power signal source is the question.

DB

A couple of years back an RAF Nimrod was here on an exercise. The day they left they flew down the north western motorway and jammed (fried) a couple of radar units.

[Swoop]

A couple of years back an RAF Nimrod was here on an exercise. The day they left they flew down the north western motorway and jammed (fried) a couple of radar units.
What nice people.
We should have them visit more often.

[snowman]

Some instillation instructions here,

http://www.radarbusters.com/equipmentarticle.cfm

:jerry:

[Winston001]

An unlikely explanation. For the two signals to arrive back at the reciever 180 degrees out of phase, the two reflecting surfaces have to be half a wavelength apart - thats a few millimeters, and we are talking thousandths of a microsecond, not milliseconds.
DB

FYI here is a piece from Wikipedia explaining the interference pattern which achieves cancellation of the radar return.

"With radar absorbent material (RAM), it can be used in the original construction, or as an addition to highly reflective surfaces. There are at least three types of RAM: resonant, non-resonant magnetic and non-resonant large volume. Resonant but somewhat 'lossy' materials are applied to the reflecting surfaces of the target. The thickness of the material corresponds to one-quarter wavelength of the expected illuminating radar-wave. The incident radar energy is reflected from the outside and inside surfaces of the RAM to create a destructive wave interference pattern. This results in the cancellation of the reflected energy.

Deviation from the expected frequency will cause losses in radar absorption, so this type of RAM is only useful against radar with a single, common, and unchanging frequency. Non-resonant magnetic RAM uses ferrite particles suspended in epoxy or paint to reduce the reflectivity of the surface to incident radar waves. Because the non-resonant RAM dissipates incident radar energy over a larger surface area, it usually results in a trivial increase in surface temperature, thus reducing RCS at the cost of an increase in infrared signature.

A major advantage of non-resonant RAM is that it can be effective over a wide range of frequencies, whereas resonant RAM is limited to a narrow range of design frequencies. Large volume RAM is usually resistive carbon loading added to fiberglass hexagonal cell aircraft structures or other non-conducting components. Fins of resistive materials can also be added. Thin resistive sheets spaced by foam or aerogel may be suitable for space craft.

Thin coatings made of only dielectrics and conductors have very limited absorbing bandwidth, so magnetic materials are used when weight and cost permit, either in resonant RAM or as non-resonant RAM."

[alanzs]

Much like a bong............you can buy one just don't use it :rolleyes:

You mean a "flower vase." :niceone:

[alanzs]

I was pinged by something that my radar detector picked up last weekend while going north on the road past Orewa towards Warkworth. A cop was sitting in a corner, aiming at the oncoming passing lane. My screamer alerted me and I was fine. Don't know if it was laser or radar, it was over in a second or two...

[Swoop]

A cop was sitting in a corner, aiming at the oncoming passing lane.
A cop at the end of a passing lane... "how unusual"...
Presumably he was getting his quota.