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ric007
11th November 2007, 11:33
My rear spring body is worn an causing alot of stichtion, also has alot of sideways play, seems to be a non serviable part. has anyone delt with these before?:Pokey:

Pussy
11th November 2007, 11:37
I have heard of the bushings being replaced. A new OEM part will cost you your first born. Robert Taylor will be able to help, and I will speak to a buddy who has a TL1000S, as soon as he gets back from overseas, and get back to you. Cheers

ric007
11th November 2007, 11:41
Robert Taylor?

tl_tub
11th November 2007, 11:52
My spring unit (SOAS - spring on a stick) was worn to the point that it would seize if not drenched in oil every 100km. I replaced it with a bitubo shock - if you have a spare 1k i highly recommend it as it replaces the spring unit with a all in one shock, getting rid of the rear rotary damper (unless yours has an ohlins damper or something fancy in the back already)

P.S. check out http://www.tlzone.net if you haven't already

Robert Taylor
12th November 2007, 09:01
My spring unit (SOAS - spring on a stick) was worn to the point that it would seize if not drenched in oil every 100km. I replaced it with a bitubo shock - if you have a spare 1k i highly recommend it as it replaces the spring unit with a all in one shock, getting rid of the rear rotary damper (unless yours has an ohlins damper or something fancy in the back already)

P.S. check out http://www.tlzone.net if you haven't already

At high mileage the spring unit on these does give out. Ohlins offer a replacement damper but unfortunately its a pity that it doesnt also have a spring installed, solving 2 problems in one hit. This is not so straightforward as the spring rate in that location would be different to that required in its standard location.

When talking performance improvement ( as opposed to cost ) I would be replacing the damper unit with Ohlins and fitting a new Suzuki spring unit. The overall improvement well exceeds lower cost options.

98tls
12th November 2007, 09:13
At high mileage the spring unit on these does give out. Ohlins offer a replacement damper but unfortunately its a pity that it doesnt also have a spring installed, solving 2 problems in one hit. This is not so straightforward as the spring rate in that location would be different to that required in its standard location.

When talking performance improvement ( as opposed to cost ) I would be replacing the damper unit with Ohlins and fitting a new Suzuki spring unit. The overall improvement well exceeds lower cost options. Robert are you still thinking about coming up with something else for these things? oh and welcome to KB mate nice to see another TL here.As tub says check out TLZONE.NET as theres endless useful imfo on TLS plus there a great bunch of guys from all over the World,be warned though theres blokes on there that make some awsome stuff and it does get a bit addictive..read as expensive.

Robert Taylor
12th November 2007, 10:16
Robert are you still thinking about coming up with something else for these things? oh and welcome to KB mate nice to see another TL here.As tub says check out TLZONE.NET as theres endless useful imfo on TLS plus there a great bunch of guys from all over the World,be warned though theres blokes on there that make some awsome stuff and it does get a bit addictive..read as expensive.

Jeez I had it in mind that youd pop up! Really I need a donor bike so that I could set it up but of course we have that cursed stretch of water to contend with....Having said that I think I may be able to access a bike in New Plymouth to pre-investigate whether spring fitment onto Ohlins dampers is actually viable. Please bear with me, I havent forgotten.

cowpoos
12th November 2007, 10:31
Jeez I had it in mind that youd pop up! Really I need a donor bike so that I could set it up but of course we have that cursed stretch of water to contend with....Having said that I think I may be able to access a bike in New Plymouth to pre-investigate whether spring fitment onto Ohlins dampers is actually viable. Please bear with me, I havent forgotten.
from memory robert...there ain't feck all room around the ohlins damper once its in there...theres a comapny in the states called lienermien or something...they make a replacement spring unit and springs for tls/r 's
I had one of their springs on my TLs...

Robert Taylor
12th November 2007, 10:57
from memory robert...there ain't feck all room around the ohlins damper once its in there...theres a comapny in the states called lienermien or something...they make a replacement spring unit and springs for tls/r 's
I had one of their springs on my TLs...

Yes that is what I am afraid of, but the new smaller diameter springs as used on TTX36 may or may not alleviate that very problem. Either way I need to sight a current installation and will know whether its possible. Thanks!

vifferman
12th November 2007, 11:10
ftheres a comapny in the states called lienermien or something...they make a replacement spring unit and springs for tls/r 's
I had one of their springs on my TLs...
That's Lindemann Engineering (http://www.le-suspension.com).

cowpoos
12th November 2007, 15:42
That's Lindemann Engineering (http://www.le-suspension.com).
thats the beggers !!!

ric007
12th November 2007, 16:20
:argh: priced a new one from japan via sports zone bout 6-7 hundred,but i'm thinkin if i pay that much just for the spring the damper could pack a sad later and don't the kits that replace the damper replace the spring to? ie coil over in dampers place?

Pussy
12th November 2007, 16:26
The Ohlins only replaces the damper unit, not the spring. As mentioned above though, it looks like Robert has plans to have a go at a spring over damper replacement. The Bitubo spring/damper fits where the spring only unit lives

ric007
12th November 2007, 16:32
i have a picture of a tls with a coilover in the place where the damper should be. i could send it to yous

cowpoos
12th November 2007, 16:35
i have a picture of a tls with a coilover in the place where the damper should be. i could send it to yous
post the picture

98tls
12th November 2007, 16:42
Hyperpro make this but even though it has a spring you still have to keep the spring on a stick,they call this spring a "helper",go figure.

Robert Taylor
12th November 2007, 17:37
i have a picture of a tls with a coilover in the place where the damper should be. i could send it to yous

Please, whilst I still need to view an installation firsthand ( from several angles ) it will at least be indicative.

Robert Taylor
12th November 2007, 17:42
Hyperpro make this but even though it has a spring you still have to keep the spring on a stick,they call this spring a "helper",go figure.

Because there is little or no compression damping in the Hyperpro damper ( low cost design ) The Ohlins damper has a properly arranged compression damping curve that matches the standard ''spring on a stick''. The standard damper has enormous friction crudely helping to hold the rear end up in its stroke and assisting no end with tyre sales. The Hyperpro will have a lot less friction than the oem, but as it has very little compression damping it needs further spring assistance to help hold the bike up. Its cheaper to add a progressive spring than to spend laborious hours in developing a damping curve that otherwise arrests uncontrolled spring compression movements.

98tls
12th November 2007, 18:09
Because there is little or no compression damping in the Hyperpro damper ( low cost design ) The Ohlins damper has a properly arranged compression damping curve that matches the standard ''spring on a stick''. The standard damper has enormous friction crudely helping to hold the rear end up in its stroke and assisting no end with tyre sales. The Hyperpro will have a lot less friction than the oem, but as it has very little compression damping it needs further spring assistance to help hold the bike up. Its cheaper to add a progressive spring than to spend laborious hours in developing a damping curve that otherwise arrests uncontrolled spring compression movements. Uh huh......ive just remembered there is or at least was a damper/spring unit made for the TLS.WP made one,will see if i can rustle up a pic

cowpoos
12th November 2007, 18:12
Because there is little or no compression damping in the Hyperpro damper ( low cost design ) The Ohlins damper has a properly arranged compression damping curve that matches the standard ''spring on a stick''. The standard damper has enormous friction crudely helping to hold the rear end up in its stroke and assisting no end with tyre sales. The Hyperpro will have a lot less friction than the oem, but as it has very little compression damping it needs further spring assistance to help hold the bike up. Its cheaper to add a progressive spring than to spend laborious hours in developing a damping curve that otherwise arrests uncontrolled spring compression movements.
would a PDS type shock be a solution to a nicely handling tls rear end? or is the same result nail by the ohlins damper replacment with its unique valving spec?

98tls
12th November 2007, 18:32
Bugger,wrong again,the WP unit was the same as the Hyperpro as in the spring was just a "helper".They both show however that there is room for a spring in there,wouldnt work with a Hagon as i have as the unit sits upside down to the ohlins unit.Fwiw pics of a WP,my hagon and an ohlins.

98tls
12th November 2007, 18:34
Theres always another alternative and weld tabs on a TLR swinger and go from there?:whistle:

ric007
12th November 2007, 18:59
here it is

98tls
12th November 2007, 19:03
here it is What brand is it mate?,it looks abit like the Hyperpro which as i posted still needs the spring on a stick,there is another unit called a Wilbers,and by all acounts very good but still trying to get a pic.

cowpoos
12th November 2007, 19:14
What brand is it mate?,it looks abit like the Hyperpro which as i posted still needs the spring on a stick,there is another unit called a Wilbers,and by all acounts very good but still trying to get a pic.
just from memory...don't maxton in the UK do one for tls as well??? does that one have a spring?

98tls
12th November 2007, 19:33
just from memory...don't maxton in the UK do one for tls as well??? does that one have a spring? Still uses the spring on a stick poos,although considered a pretty good setup,They did a shitload of work with there setup and a TLS,ive still got all the magazines somewere.I have seen a replacement spring on a stick advertised in Kiwibiker about 2 years ago but from memory it was $1700 or so.I think Robert or anyone else that came up with something that worked using a collective spring/damper unit would be on to a real winner really,theres the Bitubo but personally i am not convinced,mind you theres only so many mad old bastards like me that still bother with them so time/money spent it probably doesnt add up for someone to do so.In saying that i would just about be convinced to send my TLS up across "the cursed water" for you to muck about with Robert,for maybe a discount on the resulting item.:pinch:

Sensei
12th November 2007, 19:34
I am fixing broken mounting point for the Damper on a bike here , have welded up the cracks & are now to fit my s/steel keeper plate to stop the bolts cracking the ally again . Are running 2 bolts right through the Damper unit & nylock nutting them to hold it all togther . Room is fucken tight but are neally sorted with the setup

98tls
12th November 2007, 19:39
I am fixing broken mounting point for the Damper on a bike here , have welded up the cracks & are now to fit my s/steel keeper plate to stop the bolts cracking the ally again . Are running 2 bolts right through the Damper unit & nylock nutting them to hold it all togther . Room is fucken tight but are neally sorted with the setup Nice.......wondered how you guys got on with that.

Robert Taylor
12th November 2007, 19:52
What brand is it mate?,it looks abit like the Hyperpro which as i posted still needs the spring on a stick,there is another unit called a Wilbers,and by all acounts very good but still trying to get a pic.

There is no distributor for Wilbers so the backup is even worse than some of the others who are little more than resellers. ( No apologies for a factual comment )

There is one thing I have overlooked which Pussys post has alerted me to, that the Bitubo is a damper and spring unit combined that is mounted wholly in the same position as the original spring on a stick. If so god knows how they can make a damper fit in that small space that will have reasonable durability. Someone may like to send me an image. But the smart thing is this is not playing with fire in respect to the motion ratio applied on that spring.

''Motion ratio'' is automotive speak, we talk in the motorcycle world of link ratios. But every motorcycle swingarm imparts a ''motion ratio'' to the shock absorber irrespective of whether there is a link or not. Simplistically, for any given amount of rear axle travel in a vertical direction there will be a given amount of shock shaft movement. If for example the geomery is rearranged so that the shock shaft moves further for the same given unit of rear axle travel then it follows that the shock shaft will be moving at higher velocity. As damping is also velocity dependent it will give more damping. This is the EXACT reason I launch into a tirade of explanation when someone wants to fit an Ohlins shock ( or otherwise ) that is built for a specific make and model into something completely different.

So, with respect to the TLS it is logical that the motion ratio applied to the ''spring on a stick'' is quite different to that applied to the seperate damper unit. So the required spring rate will be different. This may be playing with fire and I will have to think about it further. To that end dont hold your breath!

TLDV8
12th November 2007, 19:55
My rear spring body is worn an causing alot of stichtion, also has alot of sideways play, seems to be a non serviable part. has anyone delt with these before?:Pokey:

The only SOAS stick option besides the OEM item is going to a Bitubo unit (with no internal damping) if you are currently running a Ohlin's/Wilbers/Penske that replaces the OEM rotary damper only.
There was was group buy for the gutted Bitubo on TLZone.
Or go for the Bitubo complete (coil over damper) or as some have done,convert the stock unit with a new shaft to linear bearings.

As i already had a Ohlins it was easier and cheaper for me to machine a billet unit to take a 800lb Lindermann spring with the body having a 14mm shaft and replaceable bushings from Racetech.
The stock spring unit can start to wear as soon as the chrome wears on the shaft,as early as 40000 kms (or less)

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/?action=view&current=Test1.jpg

98tls
12th November 2007, 20:04
The only SOAS stick option besides the OEM item is going to a Bitubo unit (with no internal damping) if you are currently running a Ohlin's/Wilbers/Penske that replaces the OEM rotary damper only.
There was was group buy for the gutted Bitubo on TLZone.
Or go for the Bitubo complete (coil over damper) or as some have done,convert the stock unit with a new shaft to linear bearings.

As i already had a Ohlins it was easier and cheaper for me to machine a billet unit to take a 800lb Lindermann spring with the body having a 14mm shaft and replaceable bushings from Racetech.
The stock spring unit can start to wear as soon as the chrome wears on the shaft,as early as 40000 kms (or less)

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/?action=view&current=Test1.jpg Well i be,how are you les.......sweaty and hot i bet.nice to hear from you,still awaiting an addy to send over those DVDs eh.Glad you saw this thread as your input will be as usual invaluable.

n0regret5
16th February 2008, 18:02
my old girls had the damper and spring unit (including all bushings and bearings) by the shop i bought it from just now, had done 58000kms before that. i understand the oil in the damper also degrades over time due to heat from the rear cylinder.. i figure once i come to that road i'll cross it. you know..with a hammer, a long bar and duct-tape..

failing that i'll fork out for an aftermarket shock and damper in one, like the normal folk use!

tl_tub
16th February 2008, 18:13
Best of luck with your machine, just yell out if you have any issues, also in case you don't know about it already, visit http://www.tlzone.net (http://www.tlzone.net/)

Morcs
16th February 2008, 18:42
Giving the shaft of the shock a wee spray with chain lube every week or so (whenever you lube your chain) should extend its life.

Death_inc has pulled one apart before, pm him if you want to know anything.

DemonWolf
15th August 2008, 12:47
I am fixing broken mounting point for the Damper on a bike here , have welded up the cracks & are now to fit my s/steel keeper plate to stop the bolts cracking the ally again . Are running 2 bolts right through the Damper unit & nylock nutting them to hold it all togther . Room is fucken tight but are neally sorted with the setup

It felt like a new bike after all the hard work Sensei did.... but


Nice.......wondered how you guys got on with that.

Unfortunately a month after Sensei did all that work for me.. I broke the lower of the bolts (the one most difficult to get in), it snapped off about 3 mm's into the mounting bracket, the nylock nut is still there. So its been in the shed :baby: for the past few months with only one bolt holding in the Dampner, I'm currently pricing the Bitubo option as I don't trust the dampner mounting bracket\plates at all. :mad: :confused:

Now all I need, is for my parnter + kids to stop spending all the money so I can pay for it!(well once I get the funds approved that is) :mad: (A topic I wont go into now.. as its a real sore point for "She whom must be obeyed") :girlfight: