Uncertain future

[Antallica]

Just got home from the hospital with the wife-to-be (nothing too serious), and before I go mental from exhaustion (8:30am start @ work today, DOH!) and goto bed I thought I'd better post this to get some feedback.

I got asked a very uncomfortable question today (well, yesterday as I type):

"Will you give up Motorcycling? At least until our last child has left home?" - Note that we aren't even married yet nor do we have children.

Now there are two reasons for this question to be brought up from my understanding: 1. The fact that I get a 'toy' and she's stuck with the kids in the car or whatever, and 2. She doesn't want me to die and leave her by herself to bring up the kids.

As you can imagine this really took a blow at me. Honestly I have no time to myself as it is what with work, and my sweet demanding all of my free time. The way I see it, it would be at least 30 years before I could get back on one again. I just can't bring myself to give up my newly found passion that I've hardly even begun to experience.

Your suggestions/feedback?

[bluninja]

Hopefully your now getting some sleep, and will be reading this after another exhausting day.

I guess a lot of this will come down to your veiw of life. My father in law has already given me the lecture about my life being 'over' and that I should just live for my kids. I don't subscribe to that; I don't believe my life should be on hold when I have kids...when they grow up...(IF!) they may well then have grandchildren for me to feel responsible for....then I would be giving up things till they've grown up.

My wife loves the person she fell in love with, one that rode motorbikes. If I give it up just because of her fears or desires then I am not the person she first liked, and am in fact less. IT doesn't mean I can't stop riding if I choose. If it's a personal safety thing then I guess next will come stopping contact sports, alcohol, red meat, any meat....thin end of the wedge.

Having said this...my RSVR is still in storage as my family is more important than finding $5k for insurance so I can ride right now.

I suggest you talk to her when you're both in good physical and mental condition to understand where she's coming from and see if you can both have what you want.

[vtec]

I don't have a family of my own or any major responsibilities so I'm not the best person to be giving advice about what to do when you've got kids.

All I'm going to say is that if you love it, don't stop, cause you'll just miss it so much more when it is gone. I know that no matter what I'll never stop riding, as long as I am able. I need to feel the power and excitement of the mototcycle, I can only last a few days before i start to need my next fix. And this is only on my 250.

I've had the odd go on my dad's TL1000s recently, and if I got used to that kind of power, the addiction would be so much worse.

Remember, don't just live your life on the straight and narrow, do lots of things just for enjoyment, cause even at 21 I know the clock is ticking, and one day I'm gonna run out of time to do the things I love. That's what scares me the most. So I do as much as I can while I can. I know the risks, but the pleasure I gain from riding far exceed them.

Moral of the story: If you like it do it.

[What?]

Mate, in all the togetherness that is marriage, you both need your own space. 4xample, Mrs What? likes digging dirt and putting flowery things in it, whereas I do not. The flip side is my toys have 2 wheels and an engine, or long pointy bits that go "BANG", and Mrs What? does not share my enthusiasm for these. It works; we have our space, and when we are together we appreciate all the more.

As for point 2, sod's law says that, in the seeking of near eternal life, you will devoid yourself of all dangerous pasttimes and be promptly run over by a bus.

Like Blu said, if you enjoy it, do it.

[Antallica]

Cheers guys, your input has really helped me. I'm glad there are a good bunch of guys (even more of them yet to reply I'm sure), us fellow bikers can turn to for some good old advice.

Yes I'm going to have a chat with my sweet soonish. I think most of all she's just scared about me on them, it'll work out I'm sure.

Thanks again.

On another note, I'm bloody exhausted.
*starts 8hr shift*

[Al]

This is a difficult decision to make.
I am supported by a wife who adores bikes, so that is sorted..
As far as stopping till your kids are out of the house, that is unfair to demand that. Your life shouldn't "end" just because you have kids, this could make a person become very bitter and twisted.
I have 2 wonderful daughters and they do not begrudge me for having gone for a blet on the road or in the bush (back in South Africa where it was NOT safe).
The whole marriage/kiddies scenario is one of give and take.
This is my view only and others will certainly differ from it.

Good luck :mellow:

Al

[curious george]

Mine is something of the same opinion as yours Ant, and like you we don't have any children either.
I can see where time wont allow me to do as much riding as I might like, but that doesn't mean I have to give up.
Like What? said, give it all up, and whammo, get hit by a bus.
I don't think it's selfish, dangerous, thoughtless or stupid choosing to ride a bike, just some people have a paranoia about it.
I've had at least twelve mates kill themselves in car accidents from my class at school, and none on bikes.
A good compromise would be to get an enormous life insurance policy.

[Ms Piggy]

Hey Ant,
Firstly - glad to hear your fiancee is ok after the trip to the Hospital.

Now there are two reasons for this question to be brought up from my understanding: 1. The fact that I get a 'toy' and she's stuck with the kids in the car or whatever, and 2. She doesn't want me to die and leave her by herself to bring up the kids.
Secondly - I'd recomend you ask her if the above reasons are why she has asked you for the ultimate scarifice.

I'd also try and find out why it has become an issue now or has she always been 'not so keen' on you riding? It sets off alarm bells for me that she expects this of you (I'm sorry to say). I asked a similar question in a thread and most of the riders agreed that giving up something you love for your spouse was a bad move. If the reason was wrong. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2739&highlight=question+allowed

What all the other guys have said is excellent advice and especially this:

I suggest you talk to her when you're both in good physical and mental condition to understand where she's coming from and see if you can both have what you want.
Possibly at the time she asked you this she was feeling a little tired & emotional from her hospital visit. All the best buddy.

[Ghost Lemur]

Hey Ant,

As you know the Rodent was my first bike and I got it while having the Punks to consider.
Also my better half was filled with concern/dread while we discussed the topic. Mainly due to not wanting anything bad to happen to me. But we talked through it, and it all worked out.

So my advice, COMMUNICATION.
DON'T give up bikes unless it's what you want. If you do you will regret it and you will begrudge those who "made" you.
UNDERSTAND and accept the validity of her fears and concerns.
BE WILLING TO COMPRIMISE.
ENLIGHTEN HER to the fact (this may only be my point of view) the when kids come into the equation you're going to be naturally more cautious due to concern for them.
EDUCATE HER about the number of road deaths in cars (help show that you can't fight death, so you should be able to enjoy what you do as it can happen at any time no matter how much cotton wool you're wrapped in... also a good thing to point out about the kids, particularly if they're boys they will climb, jump, fall, break things, bruise and cut themselves AND SHE CAN'T STOP IT).

As long as you both communicate openly and honestly and are willing to see each others point of view you'll work through it.

[2_SL0]

I have been down this road. Hence a 5 yr break from bikes. My wife was more accepting of dirt bikes. Even though many a person told her that they are even worse. Her arguement and it is a valid one, "Its not him its the other nutters on the road." My wife new it was going to happin sooner or later, due to the fact when we met I was a complete bike/car/anything that has a engine and goes fast NUT. Im not sure of your age, but one thing I can say it did help me taking a break, as I mellowed and realised I was not the industructable Action man I thought I was. I have a young son and plan on being around him for a very long time. I ride very cautious these days and actually feel somewhat safer than I did on the dirt bike. My wife would vouch that I am a lot happier and life at home is alot more relaxed. Put to her this Would you prefer me to be happy, give a 110% to the family and have no regrets. OR Be unhappy, give only 70 % to the family and may well resent you in the end. On the crash and burn side of things, If its going to happin, then I feel it dont matter what you on or in. Bike or Car. Hey the old saying, "I could get hit by a bus tomorrow" . People judge without really thinking to hard, Yes motorcycles are dangerous, but so is everything else.
I just fished my toast out the toaster with a knife, I didnt turn off the power. Thats living on the edge. A guy at work disproves of Motorcycles claims they are dangerous, Yet he is one of the lycra wearing cyclists you see around all the country roads. He also just gained his Pilots licence and is flying small planes around. Which is more dangerous ? Il stick to my bike, dont like planes. :ride:

[KATWYN]

Cheers guys, your input has really helped me. I'm glad there are a good bunch of guys (even more of them yet to reply I'm sure), us fellow bikers can turn to for some good old advice.

Yes I'm going to have a chat with my sweet soonish. I think most of all she's just scared about me on them, it'll work out I'm sure.

Thanks again.

On another note, I'm bloody exhausted.
*starts 8hr shift*

I don't know what your riding style is or how you talk about riding around
her, it could be freaking her out - all she needs is reassurance - if its not that then shes a worrier

- or if she just believes the cliche that bikes are dangerous and that you will get killed on a bike - she will always feel the way she does and will worry herself sick, and want you to "put your hobby on hold" for 30 years. so then actively do safety courses, read about safety (around her- sneaky), get safe riding videos -all for her benefit etc etc to show that you do everything you can to keep yourself safe. - or you may already do that (for yourself anyway).... Once again its reasurance

- or if its the "toy" thing and shes stuck with the kids, whos idea was it
to have children? -if it was hers and she got her way, then that was her decision (although no doubt one doesnt bring that up in an argument- but you know the point im trying to make) - she got her "toys" so she should not hassle you about your toys. However if it was the other way around or a general consensus to have kids then it would P*** me off if I was stuck with children while my partner was off enjoying endless freedom too.

[Hooks]

I have voiced my opinion on this subject before ... just can't remember which thread ..... I did in fact give up riding for my marriage ... my wife was very anti bikes even though I had one at the time we met and had just got the EFfie a matter weeks after we met. I put the bike into storage and did my best for our family ... in the end it made no difference as, after 14 years, she left me, the kids and the country and persued her own dreams !! ..... My advice to you is ...... if you have to give up something you really enjoy then you are giving up the part of you that makes you who you are as a person ....... explain that to your intended.
Starting a relationship by having to make sacrifices is not a good idea in my opinion unless it's because of financial hardship or something seriously detrimental to you or your childrens welfare ..... something like smoking for example .....

good luck with it all and may you both find happiness and contentment within the walls of your life together ....

:done:

[James Deuce]

No one who loves you should even attempt to "change" you.

Put it down to a minor aberration as a result of the hospital trip.

If it comes up again you have an issue that will need to be dealt with.

If you give up bikes for someone else you will end up giving up all sorts of other things. Compromise goes both ways, but there is also the recognition in a relationship that some things are not up for compromise.

If YOU choose to give up bikes so be it.

[RiderInBlack]

Hey Ant,

As you know the Rodent was my first bike and I got it while having the Punks to consider.
Also my better half was filled with concern/dread while we discussed the topic. Mainly due to not wanting anything bad to happen to me. But we talked through it, and it all worked out.

So my advice, COMMUNICATION.
DON'T give up bikes unless it's what you want. If you do you will regret it and you will begrudge those who "made" you.
UNDERSTAND and accept the validity of her fears and concerns.
BE WILLING TO COMPRIMISE.
ENLIGHTEN HER to the fact (this may only be my point of view) the when kids come into the equation you're going to be naturally more cautious due to concern for them.
EDUCATE HER about the number of road deaths in cars (help show that you can't fight death, so you should be able to enjoy what you do as it can happen at any time no matter how much cotton wool you're wrapped in... also a good thing to point out about the kids, particularly if they're boys they will climb, jump, fall, break things, bruise and cut themselves AND SHE CAN'T STOP IT).

As long as you both communicate openly and honestly and are willing to see each others point of view you'll work through it.Hi Ant,
Best advise is in what Ghost Lemur has said above.
It is very important in any relationship that you choose freely to do something without feeling pressured. You will find that there will be times you feel like riding the bike and times you will feel you need to be there for the kids. If you give up what you enjoy for her, you will resent her for that choice. If you ride the bike out of spite or stubborness then you will loose the joy of riding (which is what it is all about).
She probably feels this way as she has recently been to the hospital and is feeling the live is a bit fragile a the moment. She obviously cares for you deeply and is just scared that she may loose you. Unfortunely this is just one of the risks of loving someone. She could also die at anytime, but this is not a good excuse to live life in "cotton-wool" (which is a kind of death all of it's own). Living and loving is risky, enjoy the risk but take the appropriate precautions (no point in dieing a stupid death).
If You need someone to talk to about this, you know my phone number. Please feel free to call, OK mate?

[SPman]

This is a question I have often pondered over. Theres been a lot covered in previous posts.
My ex wife often used to say - "Did you ever notice that I married you just after you bought the Ducati" (back in 1973)
My recent ex was also fond of saying " If you'd just given me a ride on the Duc, back in 75, things might have turned out very differently in our lives"
So there are women out there who appreciate bikes as part of their or their partners lives.
Life is all about calculating and balancing risks. You could slip on the soap and break your neck getting out of the shower. Should you give up showering because of the kids? 600 people a year are killed in/by cars. Gonna not drive because you might get hurt. Fear of a loved one being hurt or killed is always going to be there in a relationship. You shouldnt stop doing something that means something to you, or is an important part of who you are, just because of an (ir)rational fear by someone else.. Take a look at the risks, how you ride, talk thoroughly about it and get all the fears, suppositions, queries out into the open.Compromises may have to be made, but, only give up riding, if you really WANT to!If you do it under pressure or guilt, or anything else, the seeds of resentment will have been sown and can bear a bitter harvest further down the years!

[Riff Raff]

I stopped riding for 8 years because my man wasn't interested in bikes and thought they were too dangerous for me. When I finally saw the light and ditched him, it didn't take long for me to get back in the saddle. Now I regret all the time I didn't spend on a bike, and having to wait until December before I have my full licence and can buy myself something decent. I won't let any man control me in that way again. Sure, relationships are about compromise, but you can't expect someone to give up something they love on the offchance that they get hurt. In my job I see a lot of death - you never know when you're going to go or how it will happen. Make the most out of life and have as much fun as you can on the way.

[Paul in NZ]

You can continue to be a hardcore biker, or you can give up altogether and always feel that tug in your heart as a bike goes by... Perhaps there is a third way?

Vicki fell pregnant early in our relationship and we were as poor as church mice... We scraped together the dosh for a rooted old house that we spent all our time (10 years) and money on renovating ....

I had a few stuffed old wrecks I'd buy and tinker with and sometimes make some money but often there was no money for rego or tyres so they sat and waited.... It didn't matter 'cos we were busy... I rode a $75 TS250 'Savage' to work for yonks. Christ, I couldn't afford the time or money for a spray can paint job. I loved that bike and wish I'd never sold it... (if anyone has a cheapie let me know, the early one with the 19" front wheel please) I rode that thing miles and was laughed at by the serious bikers, but I went home to love and they all seemed to go home to cold loneliness (although admittedly on very nice bikes)....

When we built this place I blew the TR6C engine and it had to wait while I had other stuff to do like taming the wilderness that was the garden. It's only progressing now....

Talk to the lady and maybe compromise and buy yourself a little project bike, you don't have to have the latest and greatest all the time. Not only will you learn heaps about bikes (and patience) I'll bet you have more fun on something you are not stressing about.... Hopefully you will get to the stage where your lady hads you your helmet and $20 for gas and tells you to go get your head sorted... Vickis done that for me... An at some times of our life that $20 was a significant amount...

Whats more you will teach your kids it IS possible to have fun without the latest label....

Mate... You can have in life ANYTHING you want (if you want it enough)

You just cannot have EVERYTHING you want... Sooner or later you have to choose. And when you do, throw you heart into it and no regrets eh?..

Paul N

[Bonez]

Good points Paul. We all have to make some sacrifices. It's really up to you to decide whether you will be happy not having a m/c. I'm lucky my good lady never made such a statement although she's not that keen on m/cs (an advantage is how I look at it ;). When things where tight a while back money wise selling the m/cs never entered the equation. Infact the opposite. She insisted I not sell up because the bloke she married had them. God bless she even mentioned I appear happpier after a good run on to things. It's part of my identity if you will and will be in some form or other till the day I push up daisies. Good luck Ant with whatever route you choose.

[FROSTY]

Dude You've had a bunch of really good advise. If motorcycling is a big part of your life then its a hard call.
I must say I have always made it clear that I will NEVER be without a motorbike. There is a cost involved but for me its worth it .
It can involve some lonely nights but there are women out there that understand your passion and support you in it.

[MacD]

As others have said, this can be a very difficult situation. And again, the best solution is probably to be found in compromise. If the issue is to do with safety on bikes, then one option is to follow the route Paul in NZ suggested. Get yourself an older slower bike. Spend time at home working on it. That way the bike doesn't represent a form of escape, but a hobby that your kids can be involved in (I spent hours holding spanners etc for my father/older brothers as a kid). And read Motu's post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=6077) which shows the other side of riding, about as far as you can get from thrashing a sports bike down the motorway.

[thehollowmen]

I know I might seem a bit like a stranger ... but you've got lots of good friends in the biking community who will understand and support you, whatever descision you make. Don't stress about it too much. :hug:

I shouldn't really give advice but it is impartial to the question: Sit down, relax, write a list of pros and cons, ask the wife to do the same. Talk it over and take your time. Despite they may seem to be insignificant to some people, these are big life-altering desicions to you. Plan to have an hour free afterwards. If things get out of hand, back off and talk about it at a later time, and get some immediate stress relief.

As to the children bit... To me that's the scariest part of the question. I guess I'm lucky: my wife told me straight out "if I ever start raving about how my biological clock is ticking and how we need kids, promise me you'll go out and buy me a kitten. I will only really be wanting a kitten" At least I know where I stand there too :love2:

[Blakamin]

I sorta had the same thing said to me very recently... and unfortunately it was the straw that broke the camel.... the bike was only part of the situation in my case. i felt i was being changed into a person i'm not... thats all over now and this week i'm finding a place to live......
Whatever you do, sort it out now so no one gets hurt... I hate the idea of leaving my daughter behind but its the best for everyone in the long run

[Ms Piggy]

thats all over now and this week i'm finding a place to live......
Sorry to hear that Mike. :confused:

[Posh Tourer :P]

Remember that relationships are about compromises.... she says - would you stop riding - you dont want to. The middle ground is that you ride differently, make it a more inclusive hobby etc etc... Just because this comes up doesnt mean that you should run away, just make sure you talk it through and try and address her concerns, while making sure she realises why you ride a bike and enjoy it.

Its not a death knell for a happy relationship, nor is it something that you can't work around.

[Blakamin]

Sorry to hear that Mike. :confused:
could be worse.... heres my cousins leg

[toads]

I gave up my bike to raise my kids, for obvious reasons it has been impossible to have a bike being a parent of 6, also finances would not allow for any extra vehicles and their associated costs, It never entered my mind to insist upon something that would exclude or inconvinience the family, however, now the bulk of them are grown and the younger three being 10 years old, I can fit bikes into my life again albeit, only on fridays,
some of my kids think I'm being a little reckless, as in bikes are dangerous don't ya know!, but crossing the road is also dangerous, and more people have fatal coronaries on the toilet, than anywhere else, making the humble loo one of the most unsafe places on earth.
You have to work out a compromise, try to show her that her fears are really unjustified, and also see if there is some aspect of bikes she can relate to and enjoy, the raising of kids will interrupt your leisure time anyway, but there's no reason bikes need to be shelved altogether, if we had a track here bucket racing would be right up our alley, the kids would love it!!

[Motu]

I just wrote a long reply...then read it over - shit,it was too depressing,I nearly cried.Do as your lady wishes,sell the bike,get a good job and buy a house - don't let yourself end up like me...

[toads]

I sorta had the same thing said to me very recently... and unfortunately it was the straw that broke the camel.... the bike was only part of the situation in my case. i felt i was being changed into a person i'm not... thats all over now and this week i'm finding a place to live......
Whatever you do, sort it out now so no one gets hurt... I hate the idea of leaving my daughter behind but its the best for everyone in the long run

so sorry to hear about this, I hope you are coping ok, cheers L

[toads]

I just wrote a long reply...then read it over - shit,it was too depressing,I nearly cried.Do as your lady wishes,sell the bike,get a good job and buy a house - don't let yourself end up like me...

Good heavens Motu, what has happened to your usual chipper self??, I hope you're ok up there in boganville, summer is on it's way and all will be well after your next ride ya know!!!

[moko]

I`m always very wary of anyone who tries to change any aspect of someone that they had when those people met.Surely if it was that big a deal then they would have mentioned it on first meeting,not to have done so would hardly have been honest apart from anything else.We`ve been here with another KB poster and in my opinion(though not nescessarily the correct one)we`re back to the "control" thing.If you`d just had a baby,or were about to and that had brought on a few worries then I could understand a few concerns raising their heads,that`s only natural I guess.While you`re both free and have the freedom to do pretty much what you want to do,and believe me mate you`ll look back on those days fondly not too far down the line,then you should be doing just that.There`s such a thing as compromise but even then I`d want a bloody good reason why she`s so set against something she`s always known you love to do.If it comes to,well if you`re a biker you`re a biker and in my skint days I`ve ridden all kinds of absolute shite and had a whale of a time.Once had a Yam RXS100 and used to wear bread bags tied to my feet because i couldn`t afford waterproof boots,had a real hoot on that thing,looked a right dick but what the hell.Thats circumstances mate,someone trying to impose their will on you has only one advantage........you get to see what`s coming down the line if you put up with it.If she`s got a really good reason then meet her in the middle,if not,well let`s just say it wouldn`t be the bike I got shot of.Probably not the most diplomatic answer you`ve had but it`s an honest one.

[Motu]

Good heavens Motu, what has happened to your usual chipper self??, I hope you're ok up there in boganville, summer is on it's way and all will be well after your next ride ya know!!!

Yeah,I must of written out my life story.Most of the older (and younger!) riders I meet are on a flash new bike,they are on megebucks in some mindless job with more holidays than they can use,the wife earns more than they do,they are mortgage free and the kids have left home,a life out of the book How To Do It Right - non of the above applies to me.Depends on how you measure happiness,happy go unlucky,that's me...it's exciting anyway!

[Ms Piggy]

could be worse.... heres my cousins leg
Yikes. :no: It's times like that when I realise what an ungrateful whinging bag of poo I can be sometimes.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Most of the older (and younger!) riders I meet are on a flash new bike,they are on megebucks in some mindless job with more holidays than they can use,the wife earns more than they do,they are mortgage free and the kids have left home

Or at least thats what they want you to believe :shifty:

[scumdog]

Yeah,I must of written out my life story.Most of the older (and younger!) riders I meet are on a flash new bike,they are on megebucks in some mindless job with more holidays than they can use,the wife earns more than they do,they are mortgage free and the kids have left home,a life out of the book How To Do It Right - non of the above applies to me.Depends on how you measure happiness,happy go unlucky,that's me...it's exciting anyway!

And what made you choose the lifestyle that you DO have Motu :doh: ?

[Antallica]

Well, I don't know what to say to you guys/gals. I'm simply amazed that some of you can share your personal stuff. I really appreciate it, the valuable advice/experiences and I know a whole lot of you also feel the same (there's a lot of love in this forum). I'm speechless.

Also this was brought up the same day, only before we went to the hospital (for a really minor thing), so the whole feeling of death and the such wasn't as high as it was last night. But yes my sweet does feel the danger part of my hobby.

I have had a chance to have a chat to her about this briefly, and she knows in her heart that I have a passion for these mechanical beings that won't die. I'm not sure who said it earlier, but the reasons I gave for her bringing this subject up were indeed correct.

There are a lot of things that I feel I could say but at the end of the day it's hard to express them in word form.

BTW I ride like a nanna & generally don't go hardcore, I don't feel I am a hazard to myself & neither does my partner.

[Kwaka-Kid]

Ant brother! Hows things? sounds like your pretty flat out to me and without much time to step back and take a look at the big picture.

But dude, Your 18! Being faced with pretty damn Massive decisions to make here. Sorry if it seems a touch off topic as i wont give any advice on the answer you must present to the particular question asked... (oh here i should also say i havnt read everybodys posts, sorry if someones already done it but im already typing...) but id just like to say please try and find some time to step back, re-evaluate your whole situation (yeah, by the sounds of things u may need quite a bit of that time stuff) and then come back to this question, despite the fact that youll prolly have a whole load more questions for yourself, its possibly worth doing.

Stuff it, i wasnt going to but ill tell you the answer. "No, i wont give up bikes" Right bud i made this one easy just for you, because although i cannot relate directly to the causes of the pressure you are under, i do understand too much pressure can make a man fold!

Finally id like to say dude, 18... from a fellow 18 year old (well i was only a few months ago) there is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much wiiiiiiiiiiicked stuff to do out there man! like Seriously wicked stuff! Stuff which at our age we shouldnt have to ask to do!

Dude its like i only just got out of school and having to get my parents to sign forms for me to go on a feild trip, the last thing i want is to jump back into that situation all over again (and trust me, my dad told me all about it... they always want to know where your going, what your doing, and if there are any other girls there! my dad is an honest man!)

After all this poisoning of your mind dude- i will say if it is all real and its all good dude, then go for it, just dont be cursing your west-auckland brother when hes out doing doughtnutz on the dirtbike in the local park breaking arms legs and loosing braincells whilst having imense fun...

and your doing the dishs





Shit sorry dude! will talk MSN but i gotta go. Mums yelling at me since i went off to work a number of hours ago without doing the dishs, and she still hasnt gotten over some of her chopping board going missing. Take is easy dude! - and you are lucky to have a wicked relationship like that.

[Antallica]

but id just like to say please try and find some time to step back, re-evaluate your whole situation (yeah, by the sounds of things u may need quite a bit of that time stuff) and then come back to this question, despite the fact that youll prolly have a whole load more questions for yourself, its possibly worth doing.

Your quite right on that one my good friend, since I've started my new job the other half has been feeling more distant from me etc. (I'm sure we know how it goes). Anyway, yes you are absolutely right. Need to make time to think about this more before I go in guns blazing. We've both agreed on this anyhoo since there are more important matters in our near future lives together.

But I can say that giving up the 2 wheels isn't going to happen unless the budget says otherwise (but hey, not like my FXR is worth much anyway these days right?)

[Morepower]

Some interesting replies and all quite valid .
However as the add says the most dangerous passtime in NZ is boating . Tell her you wont take up boating but keep the Bike.
I gave up bikes when my first was born but it was my own decision fueled by a scary 120mph tank slapper. I replaced bikes with big V8 cars and drag racing. Now I have both :) . Once a petrol head always a petrol head.

the decision must be yours.

Dave

[thehollowmen]

I replaced bikes with big V8 cars and drag racing. Now I have both :) . Once a petrol head always a petrol head.


Where do we sign up to get both?

:Punk:

[Motu]

And what made you choose the lifestyle that you DO have Motu :doh: ?

Well,it just happens don't it - if you just go with the flow and don't make concious decisions to plan your life.I have resisted all efforts to fit me into a polite box,and in the process backed myself into a corner of my own making,laughable really.

Anyway - give up bikes until the kids leave home? my eldest is 23,my youngest 8,all 4 live at home...I would never ride again by that theory.

[What?]

I thought it needed lightening up..

You have two choices in life: you can stay single and be miserable,
> or get married and wish you were dead.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>Getting married is very much like going to a restaurant with friends.
>You order what you want, then when you see what the other person has,
>you wish you had ordered that.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>At the cocktail party, one woman said to another, "Aren't you wearing
>your wedding ring on the wrong finger?"
>
>The other women replied, "Yes I am, I married the wrong man."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>After a quarrel, a husband said to his wife, "You know, I was a fool
>when I married you."
>
>She replied, "Yes dear, but I was in love and didn't notice."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>A lady inserted an 'ad' in the classifieds: "Husband wanted".
>Next day she received a hundred letters. They all said the same thing:
>
>"You can have mine."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>The bride, upon getting engaged, went to her mother and said, "I've
>found a man just like father!"
>
>Her mother replied, "So what do you want from me, sympathy?"
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>When a woman steals your husband, there is no better revenge than to
>let her keep him.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>A little boy asked his father, "Daddy, how much does it cost to get
>married?"
>
>The father replied, "I don't know son, I'm still paying."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>Just think, if it weren't for marriage, men would go through life
>thinking they had no faults at all.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
>You know the honeymoon is pretty much over when you start to go out
>with the boys on Wednesday nights,................... and so does she.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
>During a heated spat over finances, the husband said, "Well, if you'd
>learn to cook and were willing to clean this place, we could fire the maid."
>
>The wife fuming, shot back, "Oh yeah??? Well, if you'd learn
>how to make love, we could fire the chauffeur and the gardener."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>My wife told me I should be more affectionate, so I got two girlfriends.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>How do most men define marriage?
>
>A very expensive way to get your laundry done for free.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>The most effective way to remember your wife's birthday is to
>forget it once.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>First guy (proudly): "My wife's an angel!"
>
>Second guy: "You're lucky, mine's still alive."
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
>Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street
>with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are beautiful

[toads]

Well,it just happens don't it - if you just go with the flow and don't make concious decisions to plan your life.I have resisted all efforts to fit me into a polite box,and in the process backed myself into a corner of my own making,laughable really.

Anyway - give up bikes until the kids leave home? my eldest is 23,my youngest 8,all 4 live at home...I would never ride again by that theory.

you sound much like us motu, so don't feel too badly, life has a habit of sneaking up on ya and grabbing ya by the goolies, raising and large family is hard yakka, our eldest is 20, next one down 18, then 16 and triplets of 10, still got 4 of them at home, the others visint when they want pete to fix their cars!

[Antallica]

Hehe What? :niceone:

[matthewt]

I got asked a very uncomfortable question today (well, yesterday as I type):

"Will you give up Motorcycling? At least until our last child has left home?" - Note that we aren't even married yet nor do we have children.

Hmmm. Don't do it. There are ways to fit riding and family into your life without doing a half-arsed job of both. Probably now because you don't have any kids you go riding a lot. Maybe your partner thinks that with kids she'll be stuck in the weekends while you tour the country. The fact is that when you start a family you probably won't spend all weekend riding but the chances are you may not want to either. Kids are only young once and it'd be a real pity to miss those early years. I missed the first two years of my daugther's life because I was working 60-80 hour weeks non-stop under the illusion that work was important. It's not.

I now have 4 kids, Brianna is 7, Mason will be 5 in April, Cameron turned 3 TODAY and Ben just turned 1. My wife supports my riding but would prefer I didn't because of the risk factor. With 4 young kids our weekends are pretty full-on but I still manage to get out for rides each weekend. I also commute during the week.

If you decide at a later stage to give it away then that's cool, but make sure it's your choice and not someone elses. I nearly flagged it last year after a bad spill, Ben was 3 months at the time so the call from the ambulance went down like a lead balloon I can assure you.

As curious George mentioned I do have a large large life insurance policy so that if the worst did happen (on or off bikes) then at least the family would be supported.

As people have said it's all about give and take and I think you're too early in your relationship to start giving things up.

[Blakamin]

Yikes. :no: It's times like that when I realise what an ungrateful whinging bag of poo I can be sometimes.
:killingme :killingme :killingme

[Slim]

"Will you give up Motorcycling? At least until our last child has left home?" - Note that we aren't even married yet nor do we have children.
I was pleased to see that this initial foray by your "sweet" was a question & not an ultimatum, and I'm also pleased to see that you've started off the discussion & put it off until you've both got the time & the mental stability to deal with it properly without it all blowing up in your faces. :niceone:



In my opinion? If it becomes an ultimatum, then ditch her. The person who loves me wouldn't make an ultimatum ... ANY ultimatum: "It's me or the bike", or "It's me or the cat", or "It's me or your family", or "It's me or your friends" ... you get the idea?


Here's a thought. Time you spend out on your bike should equal time she gets to spend doing something she likes, on her own, for about the same sort of money.

It's a little worrying that she wants to spend all your free time with you though. Perhaps it's that you're both still young, or that you're spending so much time working, or that your relationship is still new, but I'd seriously encourage her to be doing something for herself and possibly by herself, but certainly not with you as an appendage.

[Motu]

When our first child was born we decided I was only going to work a 40hr week,so I could have the time to spend with my kids,we also weren't going to hand out our children for care during the day - so we have been on a single low income for 23 yrs,this has put me into a totaly different socioeconomic bracket than is generaly acceptable in this day and age,it's tough,but you make your life out of what you've got.I won't go back on my decision to be there for my kids,it's very important for my kids to know who I am - I hope I have enriched their lives,dragging them along in mine.

Deciding to slow down a bit with a child on the way (I even left a job and was out of work before she came) I got a trials bike when she was 3 weeks old,(then a sidecar at 2 mths)then for 3 yrs my wife and baby came to trials with me,in all weathers every 2 weeks,and sometimes practice inbetween.With even more kids she came to man (woman?) enduro check points and watch me do battle on the dirt track.It's a tough life for the girl who chooses a biker for a mate - choose well...

[Stinger]

Have you tried to couple biking with something that she's into ?, Maybe do something like pack a picnic and go to a beach close by both on the bike. If you can find stuff like that, then she'll probably associate good things with the bike, instead of feeling like you having a bike = you taking off and leaving her. That way you both get what you want.

[vifferman]

Here's my take on things, Antallica, some of which reiterates what others have already said.

Firstly, you're still very young. Be careful about making any decisions that could have repercussions for years to come. Obviously, you're thinking things through already, and that's good. No need to rush into things - take your time, get as much info and advice as you can before you do anything, then make the decision that seems right for you. You can even practice making a decision without actually doing anything, then think about how that particular decision feels and how it sits with you. F'rinstance, with regard to your current question about biking - pretend you've decided to chuck it in, and that you've sold your bike, and see how that feels.
By the way - my comments here about decisions aren't directed solely at your current question.

It sounds as though you've already decided to stick with "your sweet" for the long term. When two people commit to each other like this, it involves a lot of compromise, as others have already said, and a lot of being unselfish and denying yourself and your wants, for the sake of your partner. Even more of this is required when kids come along. It's not easy, but it's worth it. However, this is a bilateral thing: it will all turn to custard if it's only one of you making compromises and sacrifices for the other. Too often, relationships fail because the relationship is unequal, with one partner holding on to habits/practices/attitudes that are hurtful to the other, or one partner trying to change the other into something they're not.

You need to talk with your "sweet", and keep talking/listening to her - communication's very important.

When I met my partner, I was 19 and she was 18. I'd been without a bike for less than a year, and she had no idea how passionate I was about them. We were married about 4 1/2 years later, but it wasn't until about 9 years after that before I got another bike. It took several years for her intermittent resentment about my 'hobby' to subside, and it's taken over 25 years for our relationship to get to the point where Mrs FS has begun to share it with me, because she finally decided she wanted to. But for several years, I've been aware that my bike is basically a toy, despite the fact I commute on it, and that before we started to ride together, it was a selfish hobby. However, it is OK for a couple to have mutual interests, and interests that are selfish and independent, as long as those interests aren't corrosive to the relationship as a whole (unless the relationship isn't worth maintaining!) You need some time apart, some time to yourself, and you need to maintain your individuality while becoming part of something bigger than yourself.

Hope this helps.

[Eddieb]

Just to lighten up things a bit again, this conversation reminds me of a certain tv ad for an alcoholic beverage.



Antallica: She doesn't like bikes but

Motu: It's a tough life finding the right girl mate

Anyways, theres some damn fine advice here. It sounds like you've already used some of the best of it and talked to her about it.

[2_SL0]

Firestormer, your partner sounds similar to mine, but a few years down the track. Mrs Judderbar will not go on the back at all. At this point in time this is perfectly fine. But I hope in about 10 yrs she may well jump on the back. This is not something I will push with her at this point. I have mentioned it. That is all. She accepts bikes are part of me whether dirt or road. Thats a big enough
step for me. Its funny thought, I asked her once what is her actual reason to dislike bikes. It came down to her father always saying motorbikes are dangerous things. I dont deny they are dangerous but alot of people draw their conclusions from basically nothing.

[vifferman]

Just to lighten up things a bit again, this conversation reminds me of a certain tv ad for an alcoholic beverage.:killingme
I always ad-lib those ads, interpreting the "southern speak":

Moron#1: She's a hard road findin' the perfect woman.
(Translation: "I'm gay, and a flamin' drongo!")
Moron#2: Good on yer, mate!
(Translation: "Yer a flamin' drongo!")

The latest one - with the flamin' drongos parked on top of the ridge, where the Speights is delivered by quad bike - is mental. Notice that after all that bumping up hill, and being tossed to Drongo #2, the Speights doesn't explode in a flurry of suds. Must be flat... :spudwhat:

[Blakamin]

Notice that after all that bumping up hill, and being tossed to Drongo #2, the Speights doesn't explode in a flurry of suds. Must be flat... :spudwhat:
I thought all speights did that!

[ching_ching]

Get naked, stick on a pair of diapers and stick a dummy in your mouth.
Sneak into the house and when all the kids are asleep, surprise your wife and chase her around the house like a psycho Mr Blobby. When you catch her, tickle the shit out of her until she begs you to stop.
Then quietly whisper in her ear that you will ever act the fool to keep her... but that you won't get rid of your bike or biking.

Give that a go bro then get back to... Dr Luuvvvvvv. :cool2:

ching

[Coldkiwi]

what a great bunch of advice. I'm with the 'communication is essential' brigade because it will mean you can identify what she doesn't like about your biking and what you can do to help her like it.
My wife just found out that I was doing some rather silly speeds in the wet. She didn't really worry about me too much until then and was ok when I told her I'd take it easy - even if that was stretching the truth somewhat! But we've had a chat about it since then, agreed that doubling the speed limit isn't what I really want to keep doing and is something she REALLY doesn't want me doing and that i need to have a change of pace so it doesn't keep happening. So now I'm looking forward to getting something with a completely different focus that will avoid the high speed problem that I can still have fun on and know that my marriage doesn't have a major contentious bone in it because of my toy/commuter.
A bit of communication goes a long way. Keep talking bud.

[Paul in NZ]

Get naked, stick on a pair of diapers and stick a dummy in your mouth.
Sneak into the house and when all the kids are asleep, surprise your wife and chase her around the house like a psycho Mr Blobby. When you catch her, tickle the shit out of her until she begs you to stop.
Then quietly whisper in her ear that you will ever act the fool to keep her... but that you won't get rid of your bike or biking.

Give that a go bro then get back to... Dr Luuvvvvvv. :cool2:

ching

:shit:

No, not quite my thing.... But please feel free to indulge...

Besides, Vicki would probably shoot me if I surprised her too much, she does not wake up well if you know what I mean! She damn near crippled me for snoring....

Paul N

[Paul in NZ]

I thought all speights did that!

Nope, it usually waits until the next morning before it explodes in a flurry of suds and generally from you bottom... The famous Seights splatter... nasty!

Paul N

[Blakamin]

Nope, it usually waits until the next morning before it explodes in a flurry of suds and generally from you bottom... The famous Seights splatter... nasty!

Paul N
eeewwwww... never gunna look at a can of speights the same!

[jrandom]

I don't need to reiterate all the good advice on this thread but, in relation to:


... I'd seriously encourage her to be doing something for herself and possibly by herself, but certainly not with you as an appendage.

I just have to say that Slim is a wise woman, and speaks words of truth. Heed her, or you face peril. Very perilous peril.

[jrandom]

My wife just found out... we've had a chat about it since then, agreed... now I'm looking forward to getting something with a completely different focus that will avoid the high speed problem... know that my marriage doesn't have a major contentious bone in it

Translation, a la Speights:

"CK well and truly busted. Talks fast, scrambles for compromise. Relieved to find that Bank of Wifely Patience not overdrawn too far. Yet. Certain loose-lipped KBers gonna get their thumps *real good*, particularly if they make any 'ghey cruiser' jokes in the near future."

:sweatdrop

:laugh:

;)

[Slim]

I just have to say that Slim is a wise woman, and speaks words of truth.
I'm just quoting this for posterity, incase JR decides to delete his original post. ;) :shifty:

I'm a wise woman. :crazy: :gob: :killingme

[Coldkiwi]

Translation, a la Speights:

"CK well and truly busted. Talks fast, scrambles for compromise. Relieved to find that Bank of Wifely Patience not overdrawn too far. Yet. Certain loose-lipped KBers gonna get their thumps *real good*, particularly if they make any 'ghey cruiser' jokes in the near future."

:sweatdrop

:laugh:

;)

nyeeeeeers :sly:

[magnum]

dont give up something you love just to please a second party,if you do youll only regret it.

[Ms Piggy]

:killingme
I always ad-lib those ads, interpreting the "southern speak":

Moron#1: She's a hard road findin' the perfect woman.
(Translation: "I'm gay, and a flamin' drongo!")
Moron#2: Good on yer, mate!
(Translation: "Yer a flamin' drongo!")

The latest one - with the flamin' drongos parked on top of the ridge, where the Speights is delivered by quad bike - is mental. Notice that after all that bumping up hill, and being tossed to Drongo #2, the Speights doesn't explode in a flurry of suds. Must be flat... :spudwhat:
:beer: and make it Speights! :blah:

[RiderInBlack]

The latest one - with the flamin' drongos parked on top of the ridge, where the Speights is delivered by quad bike - is mental. Notice that after all that bumping up hill, and being tossed to Drongo #2, the Speights doesn't explode in a flurry of suds. Must be flat... :spudwhat:Na Mate. She's just bloody good beer:beer:
PS: Right on the money with your "Uncertain Future" comments:not: (must give you so brownie points).
I changed too much for my first wife, and 3 1/2 years of marrage later I pulled the pin as I'd had enough. Will not make that mistake again in a hurry. Good relationships are give and take from both partners (not you give and they take, or they give and you take).

[Hammer]

Tough one mate. Unfortunately only you can make the call.

I have been in the same position and did give it up. Unfortunately my marriage went down the gurgler (life became bland and we lost touch with who we are) and now fortunately I have another great lady in my life. We will be having a child next year as well. Earlier this year I was getting down with work and not being able to get out and do something I really had passion for and that gave me a buzz. I talked this over with my good lady over more than one occasion and eventually she came to understand what I needed and how much better I would be/we would be if I picked up the bikes again. Sure I make some compromises and don't get out as often as I would like to but when I do it is sweet and I make it worthwhile. Try talking to your lady mate. Talk about what it does for you, how it can bennefit you both, think about explaining modern safety technology with helmets/riding gear and most importantly do it bit by bit (Rome was not built in a day nor was it destroyed in a day). Also be prepared to compromise a bit. Good luck mate. I hope she understands this is one of the things that makes you who you and she comes around on the risk side.

[NodMan]

Finally id like to say dude, 18... from a fellow 18 year old (well i was only a few months ago) there is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much wiiiiiiiiiiicked stuff to do out there man! like Seriously wicked stuff! Stuff which at our age we shouldnt have to ask to do!

Dude its like i only just got out of school and having to get my parents to sign forms for me to go on a feild trip, the last thing i want is to jump back into that situation all over again (and trust me, my dad told me all about it... they always want to know where your going, what your doing, and if there are any other girls there!)

hey SON I been waiting ALL YOUR LIFE for this...can I have the keys to the race bike on Sat nite?????...No what bout the street bike??? only wanna go to Whangarei for a burger...honest son, no wheelies, no stoppies, wont even break the speed limit cause yo mumma taught me ta ride like a nanna ....you know THE SAME WAY YOU DO!!!!!lol....if ya dont give me the keys I'll just wait til ya asleep then BORROW IT!!!

[Slipstream]

"Will you give up Motorcycling? At least until our last child has left home?" - Note that we aren't even married yet nor do we have children.


Could be just a question to see where she stands in the ratings between her and your bike, not necessarily wanting you to actually give up your riding?

Difficult things those questions, asking and answering.

Good luck :confused:

[Jess]

argh, this was a while ago...i believe the question was asked rather randomly, as i have a tendency to do.
I was unaware quite how deeply motorcycles ran in his veins, and was feeling a little bit nervous about being the one to make all the compromises that as the oldest of 9 children, i am aware need to be made upon becoming parents.
And rather aware of how easy it is to crash and die on a motorcycle, either through his fault or the fault of another. someone in this thread made the comment that we all may be hit by a bus tomorrow, and i quite like that comment, because it is true - we jolly well might! and so i have sort of begun using that as my reality check on this subject - something to remind myself that human life is fragile anyway - why not live it when you have it.
thanks to everyone with all their comments and helpfullness in this thread - it has been kind of interesting hearing opinions expressed freely as i wasnt here to read them to begin with - makes them more honest.

we have resolved that issue of kids and mototrycles, as far as it needs to be at this time, being not married and not parents. i love motorcycles too, but can see mine dissappearing upon becoming a mother...sacrifices for everything worthwhile. at least its a while away yet!! :niceone:

[scumdog]

Do as you have to but do it willingly otherwise bitterness shall surely folllow and life is too short for that. :ride: :hug:

[Kwaka-Kid]

ahh crap! hey Jess ingore my posts :P all i do is talk shit anyways!

call me slow but ive spent the last 2 or so weeks seeing the odd post of yours trying to put 2 and 2 together, but couldnt put a pin on it that you were Ants partner.

so, pleased to meet you :)

and yes sacrifices i guess would have to be made as you say jess, but that doesnt mean you have to give away biking at all. if old anty over there has a bike or something whats to stop you just takin it out for 10mins every month or something... ? Aint No Thing really. :)

[mangell6]

Your quite right on that one my good friend, since I've started my new job the other half has been feeling more distant from me etc. (I'm sure we know how it goes).


Hmmm. Don't do it. There are ways to fit riding and family into your life without doing a half-arsed job of both. Probably now because you don't have any kids you go riding a lot. Maybe your partner thinks that with kids she'll be stuck in the weekends while you tour the country. The fact is that when you start a family you probably won't spend all weekend riding but the chances are you may not want to either. Kids are only young once and it'd be a real pity to miss those early years. I missed the first two years of my daugther's life because I was working 60-80 hour weeks non-stop under the illusion that work was important. It's not.

I think Matthewts reply and your above statement go hand in hand. Quality time together, sitting watching MotoGP together does not count.

Having performed the sell bike(s) have kids, realised the mistake and purchased bike(s) routine, there are at least two people on this list who have successfully (IMO) accomplished the keep bike, wife, kids happy combination.

Just my thoughts

Mike

[Skyryder]

Not much that I can add to the advice already given. Go where the heart is. When it comes to kids I would sooner spend the time with them with two working legs and an intact brain than the other alternitive. There is more to life than rideing and if your partner gets a bit freaked out over this it's because she's in love. Have a good one and stay cool, stay sharp,stay alive.

Skyryder

[marty]

A guy at work disproves of Motorcycles claims they are dangerous, Yet he is one of the lycra wearing cyclists you see around all the country roads. He also just gained his Pilots licence and is flying small planes around. Which is more dangerous ? Il stick to my bike, dont like planes. :ride:

what's wrong with lycra wearing road cycling bmxing mtbing cessna pilots who also ride motorbikes in their shorts and t-shirt???? huh? huh? huh?

[Frankie]

ask her to give up something she really loves and youll be told to shove it :2thumbsup

[Indiana_Jones]

I don't think I could give it up, too much to ask I feel

-Indy

[What?]

...someone in this thread made the comment that we all may be hit by a bus tomorrow, and i quite like that comment, because it is true - we jolly well might!
Amongst the drivel I talk / type, it's nice to know something worthwhile slipped out. ;)

[scumdog]

Amongst the drivel I talk / type, it's nice to know something worthwhile slipped out. ;)

My version is: "A ship is safe in the harbour - but that is not what ships are for".