Trying to give NZ a fair go...

[Macstar]

Hey people

I'm wondering how many jobs an unemployed person should apply for and how long one should wait? What have been your experiences / thoughts?

I'm four weeks into my NZ job hunt after spending the last five years at university studying international business to a masters level. Fortunately, I still have a month left till my course finishes, so a little time up my sleeves. So far I have applied for 13 jobs and called on no fewer than 6 'industry contacts'.

The closing dates haven't passed for 4-5 jobs, but so far I've only been called in for one interview...:crazy:

Salaries on offer seem to be around $40-50k which is pretty pathetic considering my job back in 2003 paid $52k and that was before my studies!

Still, NZ has been good to me and I'd like to repay the favour, so I was thinking I'd apply for at least 30 jobs before I start searching abroad.

A departing thought:

General Kiwi belief: "Brain drain is bad"
Stipulated in 99% of advertised jobs: "Minimum 2-3 years experience required".

[Chickadee]

The go slow zone

NZ tends to be a bit slow generally on the employment process, keep applying to other jobs while you wait, you sometimes find a company that's bending over backwards to interview you/offer a job while the others are plodding along sifting through CV's etc.

Pay is not comparable generally with overseas, but hopefully you can see the things NZ has to offer other than salary.

[fireball]

i can understand where you are coming from... i finished uni 2 years ago and have been doing odd jobs ever since, as im still waiting for the "career" to open up and let me in, after interview after interview i have come to realize not being in my chosen profession is a good thing for 'me' as im learning life experience, money is nothing. cant take it with you when you die so there is no stress and im only young,

just wait it out dont put a time limit on it enjoy what else is on offer

[janno]

It's a hard one. I've worked in both Aus and NZ.

Prospects and money - Aus
Lifestyle and over all quality of life - UnZud hands down.

Depends on what you are after. I think experiencing life and work overseas is a good thing for most people, even if it just cements how much you do like NZ after all.

[James Deuce]

Yeah it is a pain. It took me 3 months to find a job in the UK, so you can imagine how I felt. I made a job out of getting a job though, and as soon as I did that, and applied a better attitude and started interviewing the prospective employer instead of being passive, it all turned around fairly rapidly.

I agree with your comment about pay and qualifications. Qualifications don't seem to mean anything when it comes to pay anymore.

If money is a big motivator then head overseas. There's none here man.

[Timber020]

You have to start somewhere, you may have the paper qualifications but it doesnt mean you have proved your ability in that industry. Plenty of people come out of uni with grades but only last a little while in the job because they find its not what they want to do.

I pay guys what they are worth, and qualifications are worth nothing if your not up to doing the work. Simple. Do your time like everyone else.

[Blackbird]

Are you looking just in Auckland? I recently advertised in the Herald, Dominion and Seek for a Marketing Analyst based either in Tokoroa or possibly Kawerau and got a pretty disappointing response overall. It pays a sight more than the numbers you were quoting too. Guess it's hard to attract people down this way, even if the cost of living is a sight less than the major centres and the motorcycling roads are a sight better! The better paying jobs are certainly out there.

[darkwolf]

It's the nature of things however. And you'll find it's the same all over the world. My cousin in Scotland ended up working a 2 Month probabtion period (pay free) to show that he knew what he said he did. In the end though it has worked out and I think he's now working in Japan.

[Macstar]

Are you looking just in Auckland? I recently advertised in the Herald, Dominion and Seek for a Marketing Analyst based either in Tokoroa or possibly Kawerau and got a pretty disappointing response overall. It pays a sight more than the numbers you were quoting too. Guess it's hard to attract people down this way, even if the cost of living is a sight less than the major centres and the motorcycling roads are a sight better! The better paying jobs are certainly out there.

Does that mean you've found someone then? But in answer to your question, Yes, so far just Auckland. Not opposed to other areas of NZ as I've lived in the Coromandel and Wanaka throughout my years...

I'll broaden my search thanks.

[boomer]

If money is a big motivator then head overseas. There's none here man.

Thats not right bro, i'm earning a huge wedge contracting

[JimO]

you should have left school at 15 and got a trade ....no worries getting a job

[Blackbird]

Does that mean you've found someone then? But in answer to your question, Yes, so far just Auckland. Not opposed to other areas of NZ as I've lived in the Coromandel and Wanaka throughout my years...

I'll broaden my search thanks.


I'll be looking through some of the CV's this week that came in right on closing so not sure whether we will have anyone suitable from outside or not until I pick them up.

[James Deuce]

Thats not right bro, i'm earning a huge wedge contracting


SHHHHHHHHHHH

[jrandom]

Thats not right bro, i'm earning a huge wedge contracting

Yeah, what he said.

NZ doesn't offer many highly-paid salaried jobs, simply because those generally require big corporations sitting behind them, and we don't have many big corporations.

If you want to earn a decent six-figure income in this country you have to generate that value yourself, directly.

Not such a bad way for things to be, as far as I'm concerned.

[Blackbird]

Yeah, what he said.

NZ doesn't offer many highly-paid salaried jobs, simply because those generally require big corporations sitting behind them, and we don't have many big corporations.

If you want to earn a decent six-figure income in this country you have to generate that value yourself, directly.

Not such a bad way for things to be, as far as I'm concerned.

Right on the money!:niceone: I'm retiring next year from our big corporation but I have a particular skill/knowledge base that they haven't been able to replace yet. Yesterday. I was formally asked to come back as a consultant after I leave. I'm only interested in averaging a couple of paid days a week but I can now generate about 60% of my current salary by contracting back for 2 days a week. Seems a fair arrangement to me:rolleyes:

[avgas]

Give them 6 months.......thats how long it takes to get a decent interveiw here.
Also if you are dealing with recruitment agencies screw sending them emails, just send scud missiles - i have had used car salesmen listen to me more than them.
Recruitment agencies are scum.

[Mom]

You have to start somewhere, you may have the paper qualifications but it doesnt mean you have proved your ability in that industry. Plenty of people come out of uni with grades but only last a little while in the job because they find its not what they want to do.

I pay guys what they are worth, and qualifications are worth nothing if your not up to doing the work. Simple. Do your time like everyone else.

I so agree with you!!

I struggle to understand how anyone can expect to walk right into a very well paid job immediately after gaining what ever qualification/degree they have. You need to take your time, and not be unrealistic, remember nobody owes you anything. How many weeks did you say you have been looking?I presume with your qualification you are not applying for a floor job in a factory that may only take a few weeks to secure.........be patient! Dont be desperate, if you need to earn in the meantime get a job pumping gas, or packing shelves, both very good sources of income for the lessor mortals out here.

[vifferman]

Meh.
Over the years, I would've applied for hundreds of jobs, and would've had maybe 40 interviews. I've been successful only three times. (I've had more jobs than that, but some of them weren't via the application/interview thing).
I've also recruited, interviewed and employed maybe 10 people.

You just have to patient, and stay positive.

My current job took over six years and maybe 25 or 30 interviews to land. Lots of rejections in between, and it was very hard.:violin:

The ironic thing was, in the end I decided I didn't give a stuff if I got the job or not, and was very relaxed in the interview, and I think that made a difference.

[vifferman]

You have to start somewhere, you may have the paper qualifications but it doesnt mean you have proved your ability in that industry. Plenty of people come out of uni with grades but only last a little while in the job because they find its not what they want to do.
I'd imagine the Gen Y'ers (or whatever we're up to) are in for some rude shocks. They all seem to think they're really important and should be paid shitloads.

I left university after nearly 6 years, and took the first job I could find: I worked as a farm labourer for 18 months. Then spent another year "on the farm", doing pretty much the same job but being paid fractionally more. ("Fractionally more" = Less than my wife got working part-time).
Then I worked in a lab for 9 years, the first 6 of which I thought I was going to go nuts from the monotony. But I had a young family to look after, and a mortgage to pay, so that's what I did.

[Grahameeboy]

Thats not right bro, i'm earning a huge wedge contracting

Does 'House Husband' pay that well then

[SPman]

Seems to be these days...(compared with 40 yrs ago..) BA = equivalent of leaving school in Form 5, MA = Form 6 with UE, and PhD = Bachelors degree.
- then you need the job experience.
Without spending years getting a piece of paper which is often, essentially meaningless, you don't even get the chance of a reply to an application.

Thank god I'm old - it all seemed less complicated, back in the '60's.

"Can you do the job?" "Shit yeah!" " You're on!"

[Macstar]

You just have to patient, and stay positive.

My current job took over six years and maybe 25 or 30 interviews to land. Lots of rejections in between, and it was very hard.:violin:
QUOTE]

Cheers. Good to hear others don't find it quite so easy either.

[QUOTE=vifferman;1292684]I'd imagine the Gen Y'ers (or whatever we're up to) are in for some rude shocks. They all seem to think they're really important and should be paid shitloads.[QUOTE]

I don't know what generation I am? Born in the early 80s. A big difference with recent graduates however is the debt we're walking out with. I am grateful that I receive an interest free student loan but a bit gutted that my education has cost me $60k to get this far...

Yes, I think 40k is low. IF older generations than me think the attitudes of younger people today are a bit off, well hey! How much did you (older generations) pay for tertiary education in the 60s? 70s? even the 80s?

[QUOTE=Mom;1292671]I so agree with you!!

I struggle to understand how anyone can expect to walk right into a very well paid job immediately after gaining what ever qualification/degree they have. You need to take your time, and not be unrealistic, remember nobody owes you anything. How many weeks did you say you have been looking?I presume with your qualification you are not applying for a floor job in a factory that may only take a few weeks to secure.........be patient! Dont be desperate, if you need to earn in the meantime get a job pumping gas, or packing shelves, both very good sources of income for the lessor mortals out here.

Again, "Well paid" is quite a personal concept though 40k in my opinion is not "well paid". I do agree with you that a person needs to work their way up and be realistic.

Anyway, like I said, I'll be applying for a fair few more jobs before I give up here in NZ. And if I don't land something in a month or two then I'll have to either start flipping burgers or bail overseas!

My degree in International Business lends itself to working abroad, it's just that I would like to try and help NZ companies do well internationally as opposed to other foreign countries.

[carbacca]

heres my experiences out of uni

didnt have anything lined up when my course finished even though i had applied to a fair few larger firms, then i got offered a contract/student reserach role for 3 months with my lecturers startup company. pay was equivalent to something like $10 an hour but it was tax free cos its was a grant/scholarship in nature. that ran out of steam after 3 months, then was unemployed for 6 months. during that time i basically mass emailed and sent CV's to everything under the sun on seek and search4jobs that seemed even remotely related. wouldve sent at least 50 inquiries but was only interviewed for 3-4. got a lead in the papers which lead to a trade recruitment agency and through them got a job working as assembly worker in a factory. got pissed off and bored shitless after 6 months of that and abrubtly quit without anything lined up. unemployed for another 2 months and hit seek and search4jobs again. i didnt think 6 months experience assembly machines wouldve counted for anything so i was looking for graduate positions again, mass spammed about 50 places again and got 5 interviews. eventually narrowed down to two and one came to the table with an offer first so i took it and ran, which is where i am currently happily employed. pay is average to start with, got a moderate raise after 3 months. now currently working on making myself indispensible (its a newly created position) so i can blackmail my way into an even bigger raise.

what i learnt:
- play the numbers game. out of 100 applications, you will never hear from about 80 of them. 10 would give you a nice polite email saying no, 5 would actually call you to politely say no and you would get an interview with about 5 of them. your application "wont be processed further at this point" for about 3 of them which leaves you with a reasonably solid shot at 2 of the other
- dont hesitate to get yourself and your CV out there. even if the position advertised doesnt quite match, send a CV in anyway and they might have something more suitable. worst you can get is a rejection
- gotta start somewhere; i hated my factory assembly job but i learnt a few things from it. quitting a job dont carry the same stigma anymore so you have nothing to lose by going back to square one

[RantyDave]

If you want to earn a decent six-figure income in this country you have to generate that value yourself, directly.
Or go contracting.
Or work for the government.

Dave

[jafar]

I'm finding this interesting, my daughter is in her 2nd year @ vic doing 'international business' & a few other things. She is winding up a student debt that would choke a bull & has decided to stay in wellywood to keep working & save over the xmas break.
I had assumed that the degree's she is working towards would give her a better life once she had them , am I wrong with this assumption? :confused:

[marty]

A departing thought:

General Kiwi belief: "Brain drain is bad"
Stipulated in 99% of advertised jobs: "Minimum 2-3 years experience required".

this a general kiwi attitude across the board - you have to do hard time before you can move up. it is especially prevalent in aviation. i have 600hrs, multi IFR with 50hrs multi, an LAME (aviation engineering licence), some ATPL exams. I could go to africa flying for a kiwi outfit, but that's a single man's job. i'm less than 1/2 way to the minimums for AirNZ Link. i don't even meet the minimums for a skydive pilot at Taupo!

if i was in the UK, 300 of my 600hrs would be in an A320 or 737.

[Macstar]

I'm finding this interesting, my daughter is in her 2nd year @ vic doing 'international business' & a few other things. She is winding up a student debt that would choke a bull & has decided to stay in wellywood to keep working & save over the xmas break.
I had assumed that the degree's she is working towards would give her a better life once she had them , am I wrong with this assumption? :confused:

Four things:

1. Tertiary education providers lure students in with flashy promotions of glamarous careers and excellent incomes, thus leading to perhaps an unrealistic expectation of what really awaits a graduate.

2. On the international scene, they're are literally tens of thousands of business graduates looking for employment. The difference between these graduates and the typical Kiwi graduate is that they can speak 3 or 4 languages. Most Kiwis can't... (Oh, and internationally, a mere degree no longer counts... a masters degree is the new base point).

3. International Business is a relatively new field of study that ecelectically includes aspects of marketing, finance, international relations and law, trade, strategy and a few others. I suspect some employers don't truly know what an International Business degree is.

4. Unlike some university business courses (Finance and accounting, marketing, Supply Chain and Logistics), there is not a specific and matching career as such for international business. For example, you study accounting, you become an accountant. International Business could include a number of occupations such as business development, international trade, consulting, analysing etc. So when it comes to searching for a job, whilst the variety is greater - it's alittle more difficult...

Still internationally savy people is arguably what our country needs if it is to reverse its deteriorating economic downward spiral. We were selling meat and cheese in the 18th century and today.... we pretty much do the same.

[jafar]

Four things:

1. Tertiary education providers lure students in with flashy promotions of glamarous careers and excellent incomes, thus leading to perhaps an unrealistic expectation of what really awaits a graduate.

2. On the international scene, they're are literally tens of thousands of business graduates looking for employment. The difference between these graduates and the typical Kiwi graduate is that they can speak 3 or 4 languages. Most Kiwis can't... (Oh, and internationally, a mere degree no longer counts... a masters degree is the new base point).

3. International Business is a relatively new field of study that ecelectically includes aspects of marketing, finance, international relations and law, trade, strategy and a few others. I suspect some employers don't truly know what an International Business degree is.

4. Unlike some university business courses (Finance and accounting, marketing, Supply Chain and Logistics), there is not a specific and matching career as such for international business. For example, you study accounting, you become an accountant. International Business could include a number of occupations such as business development, international trade, consulting, analysing etc. So when it comes to searching for a job, whilst the variety is greater - it's alittle more difficult...

Still internationally savy people is arguably what our country needs if it is to reverse its deteriorating economic downward spiral. We were selling meat and cheese in the 18th century and today.... we pretty much do the same.

So what your saying is that international business is a catchall of a variety of occupations & is essentially treated as a 'jack of all trades but master of none' ? But if she had studied say law or accounting there would be jobs waiting for her??

[Macstar]

So what your saying is that international business is a catchall of a variety of occupations & is essentially treated as a 'jack of all trades but master of none' ? But if she had studied say law or accounting there would be jobs waiting for her??

Yeah, pretty much. You can do double majors at most universities so it might be good to mix IB with something like commercial law, finance or a language etc.

[jafar]

Yeah, pretty much. You can do double majors at most universities so it might be good to mix IB with something like commercial law, finance or a language etc.

Hmmm she has it mixed with Asian studies & Japanese. Mabey she should have done Motorcycle mechanics instead :angry:

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Thats not right bro, i'm earning a huge wedge contracting

Huge wedge? Contracting? Diseases? Must be one of those STD drug guinea pigs eh bro!!

[homer]

maybe you should go door knocking instead of applying
its works 10 times more often and you can find out about different jobs in the process.
personally i believe the best way to get jobs is word of mouth and door knocking .
I gave up applying for jobs a long time ago
I found work in south west sydney in 4 days and had turned down 2 jobs
All by phone and foot
Its a piece of cake !

[Coyote]

I'd imagine the Gen Y'ers (or whatever we're up to) are in for some rude shocks. They all seem to think they're really important and should be paid shitloads.
Yep, most people I know say "when I'm rich....". Apparently my year group is caught between generations X and Y.

I'm an exception (being bleak minded) and don't expect everything to be given to me but I still have the hope of starting some garage based (to begin with) custom bike parts business. Mind you that's still thinking along the lines of 'when I grow up, I'll become an astronaut!' but it's not too unrealistic I'd like to think, especially if I made it a hobby to begin with.

[boomer]

Huge wedge? Contracting? Diseases? Must be one of those STD drug guinea pigs eh bro!!


nah, i'm just a mouse :weep:

[Solarwind]

One piece of advice I can offer is, don't be afraid to move. Not necessarily to another country, though. I moved from Hamilton to Taupo for my first full-time job, I landed it pretty much straight out of uni with no industry experience because there was such a shortage of suitable people in Taupo. The job had been advertised for 6 weeks by the time I even applied for it. Still working at that job after four and a half years, and we've been gradually sending all our competitors in Taupo out of business... heh. Four years of industry experience is worth 10x more than the four years I spent at university getting my degree. I don't think people really appreciate degrees in NZ and in hindsight I wouldn't have bothered.

[BAD DAD]

Again, "Well paid" is quite a personal concept though 40k in my opinion is not "well paid". I do agree with you that a person needs to work their way up and be realistic.

In my mid/late 40's now and have never earned more than about $42K per annum ever, but have had plenty of opportunities to do so by getting my foot in the door first. If your worth it, it won't take long for someone to grab you. Seen plenty of youngsters start off in humble positions, then quickly roar off up the ladder because they had ambition, commitment and work ethic to match. Me, I've never been career oriented enough to take all the opportunities offered. Anyway $40K ain't that bad, paying 25% or more of it in income tax.....that is bad.
Goog luck man

[Sanx]

nah, i'm just hung like a mouse :weep:

The first step to dealing with it is admitting it, mate.

[Macstar]

maybe you should go door knocking instead of applying
its works 10 times more often and you can find out about different jobs in the process.
personally i believe the best way to get jobs is word of mouth and door knocking

Yeah, door knocking / cold canvasing is on the cards for next week.


One piece of advice I can offer is, don't be afraid to move. business...

How's the bike riding in Taupo come winter? Not a big fan of the cold....




In my mid/late 40's now and have never earned more than about $42K per annum ever... Good luck man

Thanks mate. You must be good at budgeting then to have such a late model Trumpy!!

[avgas]

Seems to be these days...(compared with 40 yrs ago..) BA = equivalent of leaving school in Form 5, MA = Form 6 with UE, and PhD = Bachelors degree.
- then you need the job experience.
Without spending years getting a piece of paper which is often, essentially meaningless, you don't even get the chance of a reply to an application.
Thank god I'm old - it all seemed less complicated, back in the '60's.
"Can you do the job?" "Shit yeah!" " You're on!"
Too be honest its comments like this that just tell me whenever grads ask me about work in NZ....i tell them to go elsewhere.
While i do understand your meaning of the lack of manpower in a degree - telling a grad that you won't hire them because they got one is like holding the wrong edge of a knife.
I think it is more valid to judge the person rather than the paper.
I had all sorts of issues with a guy recently at work, he had been on the tools for 20 years, but we took him out of his comfort zone with a simple form where all he had to do is sign his name next to the tasks he was completing. He quit after 2 weeks. Which was good for me, even though i had to do all his work as well as mine.....my workload still halved.
Lazyness/detemination is what determines someone who has learnt something over a 4-6 year period, rather than titles.
Lazy people can also appear as workers, not just students.

[SPman]

Lazy people can also appear as workers, not just students.
Undoubtedly.
I do think many people hold false expectations as to what a degree will do for them. I quite like Bob Jones comment, that he preferred graduates with a BA in Philosophy and History - not because of what they learnt, but,to get the degree the person should be able to think and reason.
If you go out into the workforce, initially, with over high expectations, just because you have a degree, you will generally be sorely disapointed. A lot of grads don't seem to realise, it is only the basic training. The "fleshing out" starts once you get a job.

In my own case, I dropped out of Uni and became a Carpenter (Advanced Trade Cert.). After 20 odd years I retrained as a Quantity Surveyor. Even with my experience in the building trade, it still took a couple of years before I really got the hang of the job, even though I thought it would be a doddle. I then became a Building Inspector and once again, It took 15 months or so before I became comfortably competent in the job.
Knowing the theory is one thing - putting it into effective application, is quite another matter

I think it is more valid to judge the person rather than the paper. That is, I think, what it comes down to. A person with the right attitude will always win out.

[Macstar]

Before I got a degree, I also used to rather ignorantly bag university cause it made me feel better for not having ever attended and cause I thought I knew more (being an employed worker) doing the 'real thing', rather than students who just seemed to read about it.

Generally speaking, you'll find the people that diss university are the ones that have never been, or did but dropped out and therefore such comments are speculative and unjust.

Getting through a uni degree is not easy which is why in NZ less than half of people who commence tertiary education never complete it. I personally achieved an A grade average and worked my ass off (I put in more hours a week into studying than the average worker would at their job).

Sure, I learnt theories, techniques, facts etc. but in university, I LEARNT HOW TO LEARN.

Simplistically speaking, when I finally get a chance to rejoin the workforce in a professional capacity (i.e. valued for what I am capable of), I will not have the practical skills of someone who has been in the game for the same time that I was studying for. But, hopefully, I will be able to catch up to that person's level quickly, by learning what he or she learnt faster than him/her.

I will also not be subject (in my opinion) to the same glass ceiling that I experienced in the workforce when I didn't have a degree.

NOW GIVE ME A JOB DAMN IT!