Police Laser Gun - Pro Laser II

[TgaGuy]

Hi All.

I have got myself a Kustom Signals Pro Laser II hand held speed gun.

If anyone wants to see how well they work or want to test their bikes visibility or jammer equipment, feel free to contact me and we can arrange a time/place. A small fee of about $50 to cover my time and I get some $'s back to cover the cost of the lidar is not too unreasonable I hope. Testing will have to be after hrs or weekends as I do have a job. Discretion kept.

This is for testing in the Tga/Mt area.

I have only had it a week so far. The best reading I have had is a car traveling away from me doing 96k at 1010meters. see pic.

Ive found its harder to get a lock with vehicles travelling toward than away. But have had cars oncoming at over 700m.

Have targeted bikes but cannot recall how that went. Will have a play in the mean time.

The pro laser II is rated at 4500ft (1371m).

Regards
Reuben
mrt@maxnet.co.nz

Nokia camera pic, sorry for quality.
P.S. I am not a member of any enforcement authority.

[Renegade]

how the hell did you get your sticky little paws on one of those? those old lasers are heaps better than the new ones the cops use, ping people at greater distances im told.

[Ralph]

Welcome to the site TgaGuy, what on earth inspired you to buy one of those?
Hope you get few interested as it could be fun to find out if jammers are working.

By the way there are are a group of us in TGA that meet at Drivers bar on Thurs
evenings, your welcome to check it out.
Here's the link to the thread Link Thingy (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=24981&page=379)

[bucket boy]

i hope your not a under cover copper lol ive got m20 blinder fited to my scooter and from everything i could find on jammers its suppose to be the best im keen to see what comes up on your screen i no they work

[TgaGuy]

i hope your not a under cover copper lol ive got m20 blinder fited to my scooter and from everything i could find on jammers its suppose to be the best im keen to see what comes up on your screen i no they work

HA HA Scooter! :lol: No im not any sort of copper!, just a car, electronics, computer type enthusiast, I like to use electronic type toys, just dont have the budget i would like. ;)

[TgaGuy]

how the hell did you get your sticky little paws on one of those? those old lasers are heaps better than the new ones the cops use, ping people at greater distances im told.

Like this one at 1448m, only rated for 1371m. (4500ft), this was taken last night from the overbridge at barkes corner right down to the oropi roundabout. Shooting the back of the car. It shows -46. 46kph receeding (travelling away). if the - sign was missing it would be travelling towards the gun.

[davereid]

I have done some sums, which suggest a good laser at moderate range would be quite tricky to jam if you were reliant on blasting more energy back at the unit than it was expecting. But, now we have a test unit available, it might be time to get the soldering iron out. They may well hate several reflections at slightly different times, or lots of other possibilities..

[TgaGuy]

Im not convinced you need to overpower the unit with IR, however i think all you would need to do, as you said, is add extra return pulses when the lidar is looking for them. I believe the PL2 pulses at 100 pulses/sec? . if you return pulsed at an interval inbetween each pulse emitted, then the gun would see too many recieved (reflected + jammer pulses) compared with what what transmitted, thereby confusing the gun. I think the PL3 is higher again, have read it somewhere but cant quote figures.

I believe the laser requires about 30 consistent pulses and returns and then averages them to give a speed. Takes 0.3 seconds.

[Renegade]

just be careful that some one dosnt call the cops saying "theres some guy with a gun pointing it at cars on the over bridge and he aint a cop" it wouldnt be the first time it sparked an armed call out, or do you have a scanner aswell?

[lanci]

Lets go police the police!!! Then we can post our traffic infringements to Police headquarters.

:Police:

[Sanx]

Lets go police the police!!! Then we can post our traffic infringements to Police headquarters.

:Police:

Oh that'd be a riot. I know just the road (and no, it's not near a donut shop).

[Renegade]

Oh that'd be a riot. I know just the road (and no, it's not near a donut shop).

where are all these donut shops you guys keep talking about, i just love donuts but buggered if i can find any apart from those lil-orbit jobbies down welly ways

[TLMAN]

Like this one at 1448m, only rated for 1371m. (4500ft), this was taken last night from the overbridge at barkes corner right down to the oropi roundabout. Shooting the back of the car. It shows -46. 46kph receeding (travelling away). if the - sign was missing it would be travelling towards the gun.

There is absolutely no way you could tag a bike at that distance though, too streamlined and no real flat surfaces to reflect off.

[zx10ruser]

Lets go police the police!!! Then we can post our traffic infringements to Police headquarters.

:Police:

thats actually a good idea, my works in a 50mkh zone and i swear to god sum of them blaze past at 100-140. would love to sting them 4 that

[Monkeyboy]

Do you ever see cars with compact discs dotted about the front windscreen? These tossers actually believe that the CD's will deflect the laser or radar police use, how precious!!!!!!!:lol:

[Pancakes]

Well that looks like a bag 'o' fun! I'd be pinging the planes around here just for fun. Hell I'd be doing everything with it! Have fun.

[slopster]

As long as they don't have laser warning receivers and think someones got a lock on them

[P38]

There is absolutely no way you could tag a bike at that distance though, too streamlined and no real flat surfaces to reflect off.

TLMAN

I believe they aim for the eyes:blink:.

Headlights reflect the signals very well.

Not sure of the maximum distance but thats what could be checked with TaGuy's unit.

[Swoop]

where are all these donut shops you guys keep talking about, i just love donuts but buggered if i can find any apart from those lil-orbit jobbies down welly ways
Have you tried following a police car around?
You'll be led to the best Dunkin' Donuts in town!:rofl:

[TgaGuy]

Well that looks like a bag 'o' fun! I'd be pinging the planes around here just for fun. Hell I'd be doing everything with it! Have fun.

Yeah i tried a few planes coming and going from Tga Airport as well as a Hercules that was doing touch and go's, but alas very little reflection to get a signal off of. Was a little dissapointed, would have like to see some 300+ numbers.


As long as they don't have laser warning receivers and think someones got a lock on them

I was waiting for some flares to go off on the Herc when i targetted it,but nothing happened.


TLMAN

I believe they aim for the eyes:blink:.

Headlights reflect the signals very well.

Not sure of the maximum distance but thats what could be checked with TaGuy's unit.

Helmets are good, particularly the visor, the headlights are a little hard to get a good signal off of.

[TgaGuy]

i hope your not a under cover copper lol ive got m20 blinder fited to my scooter and from everything i could find on jammers its suppose to be the best im keen to see what comes up on your screen i no they work

Would love to test that out for you, havent come accross any jammers yet, havent had any errors come up on the screen except "RFI" a couple of time once when a cop with his radar on went by, and once when my cell phone started ringing. I believe from watching all the U-Tube vids that a E02 or similar should show when being jammed.

[CookMySock]

Im not convinced you need to overpower the unit with IR, however i think all you would need to do, as you said, is add extra return pulses when the lidar is looking for them.yeah there are two ways to blind laser things - either confuse its' logic by adding pulses (hard - analysis required), or overload its' receiver with a signal much stronger than the reflection (easy). The reflection will be microscopic compared to a new laser signal, but you will have to scan the area repeatedly (easy), or target him with it - hard.

For radio (microwave) units, also you could overload the receivers' front end until it desensitises badly (large signal required).

A lot of fun to be had here. :niceone:

A great toy BTW.

DB

[Pixie]

I have had a Laser jammer for several years,which I am confident does work.
I base this on confused looks from cops as I pass them and it was tested against a laser gun at Radar Direct.
Being a curious fella I looked at back engineering the jammer.
I found it seemed to leak a 4 MHz signal,so I assumed it was pulsing it's 9 IR LEDs at this frequency.This would generate a false reading fixed at around 38 metres from the laser gun.

I have produced a prototype that pulses 12 IR LEDs at 4 MHz.All I need now is a gun to test it against.

[jcupit69]

Lets go police the police!!! Then we can post our traffic infringements to Police headquarters.

:Police:

HAHA, god i'd love to....wasnt very impressed when i saw an undercover car (red and blues NOT going) drive passed me when i was doing 107kmh, so he was defo 110+ and i thought "how do i get this crazy bastard done for speeding on our public roads, if it was the other way round he'd have ticketed me!!!" :2guns:

[jcupit69]

Have you tried following a police car around?
You'll be led to the best Dunkin' Donuts in town!:rofl:

HAHAHAHA, funniest post iv read in ages!!! +1 for that!!! :lol::lol::lol:

[TgaGuy]

Yeah, can you imagine it.
Your find a cop to follow, he sees you following and pulls up asks you why your following him, you reply "Uuuh, waiting for you to take me to the best donut shop in town!".
Yeah i can see the handcuffs now...

[Monsterbishi]

Just wait until the Aussies have their F111's over here again, betcha they'll start acting all kinda nervous if you lased them :blink:

[MIXONE]

Yeah, can you imagine it.
Your find a cop to follow, he sees you following and pulls up asks you why your following him, you reply "Uuuh, waiting for you to take me to the best donut shop in town!".
Yeah i can see the handcuffs now...

Mmmmmmm donuts.

[Grub]

where are all these donut shops you guys keep talking about, i just love donuts but buggered if i can find any apart from those lil-orbit jobbies down welly ways

It's a well-tired clique that people like to use - but it's not even related to New Zealand. Using it it just silly. Yup, it's been iconic for years that New York cops eats lots of donuts but this is not NY

[CookMySock]

I have produced a prototype that pulses 12 IR LEDs at 4 MHz.All I need now is a gun to test it against.very cool. I would be keen to see this test done.

DB

[TgaGuy]

I have had a Laser jammer for several years,which I am confident does work.
I base this on confused looks from cops as I pass them and it was tested against a laser gun at Radar Direct.
Being a curious fella I looked at back engineering the jammer.
I found it seemed to leak a 4 MHz signal,so I assumed it was pulsing it's 9 IR LEDs at this frequency.This would generate a false reading fixed at around 38 metres from the laser gun.

I have produced a prototype that pulses 12 IR LEDs at 4 MHz.All I need now is a gun to test it against.

http://www.radar.co.nz/usa/usechofaqs.html FYI

Laser Echo confuses the speed calculation by sending "echo" pulses into the laser gun between its own pulses. The remote-mount laser unit (transponder) has both a photo diode (detector, receiver) and a laser diode (transmitter, emitter). When the detector "sees" the first pulse from the speed gun, it triggers the laser diode to fire back a pulse train, but at a much higher rate than that of the laser speed gun. Since the laser wavelength in both devices are the same, Laser Echo's signal is accepted by the gun. The computation of speed is then delayed because the laser gun receives information it considers inconsistent.

[vagrant]

I was waiting for some flares to go off on the Herc when i targetted it,but nothing happened.

They would have just pushed a Unimog out the back. Clock that!!!!:eek::eek:

[CookMySock]

When the detector "sees" the first pulse from the speed gun, it triggers the laser diode to fire back a pulse train, but at a much higher rate than that of the laser speed gunI wonder how the jammer "aims" its laser at the speed gun ? Coz if its not pointing right at it, then it might as well be pointed straight up.

DB

[sAsLEX]

They would have just pushed a Unimog out the back. Clock that!!!!:eek::eek:

Be a pretty small Mog!

A LAV might fit in with flat tires.....

[vagrant]

Be a pretty small Mog!

A LAV might fit in with flat tires.....

Unimog 1700L (standard army issue job) fits in piece of piss. Did it on Monday.:p Twice.

Lav fits in with out deflating tyres. If you let the tyres down, it makes the track too wide for the dual rail mechanism for the cargo pallets.

[sAsLEX]

Unimog 1700L (standard army issue job) fits in piece of piss. Did it on Monday.:p Twice.


Hmm I aint believing that without pictures, I would of said a standard MOG is way too tall......... oh they are 3.14m roughly http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/equipment/logistics-equipment/default.htm

And a C-130 load bay is

<img src=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-130-cargodims.gif>

Just a touch short since 9 feet = 2.7432 meters

Can a Herc make it across the ditch or anywhere with a LAV inside?

[Mikkel]

I wonder how the jammer "aims" its laser at the speed gun ? Coz if its not pointing right at it, then it might as well be pointed straight up.

DB

The laser guns used for speed measurements are battery powered devices...
As such you can count on the power emitted being fairly modest.
Combine this with the fact that the reflection that the gun is to pick up off the car comes off a curved surface - thus, only a small fraction of the emitted power is reflected back and picked up by the detector. Consequently the detector will registrer and "accept" a low-energy pulse.

On the other hand, the jammer is hooked up to the cars electrical system and can use a significant amount of power to strobe pulses at the detector. It doesn't need to "aim" to be effective - a space angle of 180 degrees (a quarter of a sphere) is sufficient.

[sAsLEX]

On the other hand, the jammer is hooked up to the cars electrical system and can use a significant amount of power to strobe pulses at the detector. It doesn't need to "aim" to be effective - a space angle of 180 degrees (a quarter of a sphere) is sufficient.

Hence why the one Pixie took apart had multiple LEDS so there emissions patterns overlap....

[TgaGuy]

Location Location Location

[scumdog]

Location Location Location

Nice photoshop!!!:banana:

[jim.cox]

Best donut shop in Christchurch is on Hereford St, just down from the Central Police station - coincidence? I dont think so.

[scumdog]

Best donut shop in Christchurch .


And you know this how???

[Mikkel]

Nice photoshop!!!:banana:

It's a cop shop and a donut shop - not a photo shop... :no:

[jim.cox]

And you know this how???

'cos I like donuts too...

[scumdog]

'cos I like donuts too...


Wheew!
That's a relief - though ya might have been a cop.....

[Buddha#81]

Hmm I aint believing that without pictures, I would of said a standard MOG is way too tall......... oh they are 3.14m roughly http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/equipment/logistics-equipment/default.htm

And a C-130 load bay is

<img src=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-130-cargodims.gif>

Just a touch short since 9 feet = 2.7432 meters

Can a Herc make it across the ditch or anywhere with a LAV inside?

Im picking you would need to remove the canopy and bows, fold the mirrors in and the tailpipe off the ehaust stack you'd gain 300mm or more.

[vagrant]

Hmm I aint believing that without pictures,

believe:bleh:

[Tumbles]

Do you ever see cars with compact discs dotted about the front windscreen? These tossers actually believe that the CD's will deflect the laser or radar police use, how precious!!!!!!!:lol:

Well actually.... I can't call myself an expert, but lasers will in fact reflect off mirrored surfaces just like any other electromagnetic signal. However you would need a little more of your surface area covered than just a couple of CD's sitting on your dash. A handheld lasergun will not be held steady and therefore would reflect back off of almost all of the car as it moves around slightly. Therefore I reckon you'd need most of the car/bike covered in chrome and enough curvy bits to reduce direct reflection.

[Tumbles]

As for the mog, that's awesome. Is even the cab under the center wing section there? (lowest point in Herc's roof)

[vagrant]

As for the mog, that's awesome. Is even the cab under the center wing section there? (lowest point in Herc's roof)

Yup, smack on the CoG.

[vagrant]

A Uni Power Crash Fire Tender.

[TgaGuy]

Ok; Ive had my fun with the Laser Gun. Its up for sale.
see http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Electronic-components/auction-166236219.htm

[Guided_monkey]

Ok so how many bodies to drive/direct a Unipower into a Herc????

Where was it going??? Riviera of the south....... Ohakea???

:bleh:

[FastBikeGear]

Hi All.

I have got myself a Kustom Signals Pro Laser II hand held speed gun."

I still have a couple of factory manuals (P/N 006-0535-00) for this obsolete model. (I think it is still in use in NZ)

I used them to win a case against the NZ police in 2005 who used the gun well past the effectrive operational range under and with an incorrect understanding of their operation. The locally written training manual was at odds with manufacturers specifications and recommendations. In the end after a couple of letters back and forth the police cancelled the court hearing and wrote me a nice letter saying that they had made a mistake on the date on the ticket and they no longer could prosecute. (Their date on the ticket was correct).

Interestingly the NZ police originally wrote me a letter saying there were no manufacturers manuals but I was able to purchase two manuals withing 15 minutes off the Internet. When I contacted the manufacturer for further technical info they also advised that every unit sold was supplied with a manual. They make very interesting reading when compared to the locally non-manufacturer written user guides used here by the NZ police. (I was really looking forward to having some fun with this in court). The manufacturers manuals are significantly at odds with the locally written training instructions which I obtained by requesting them under the official secrets act.

Using these units at the distances being talked about in this thread can sometimes be fraught with technical problems. I was told by the manufacturer when researching the case that most agencies had stopped using the units because of their accuracy limitations and susceptibility to false readings. Kustom signals new models addressed smany of the key issues.

The target range of 15 feet to 4500 feet quoted on page 35 manual is the maximum range under ideal conditions. (No intervening reflective materials such as sign posts, utility poles and no other vehicles beside in front of...or even behind the target vehicle under some conditions). THe 4500 feet is somewhere close to the maximum range that the unit is capable of 'locking' on to light reflected by the vehicle. It does not indicate the range at which the unit can be reliably used to get accurate readings.

1. It is rcommended (page 20) that the for situations where long range target acquistion is desired that a monopod or tripod is used to assist. I have spotted NZ police hand holding these units or attempting to rest them on bonnets or window sills and taking reading at over 200m.

2. Panning across the target can cause false high readings. This is because when you pan across different parts of the car the strongest reflection can be received by one part of the car in one instant and another part of car and instant later. This problem is more of an issue at greater distances where a shaky hand increases the panninig effect. Another reason why tripods are recommended for using the unit at a longer range.

It is recommended in the manufacturers manual that the unit is not hand held for longer target acquistion distances for both of these reasons.

[FastBikeGear]

I have done some sums, which suggest a good laser at moderate range would be quite tricky to jam if you were reliant on blasting more energy back at the unit than it was expecting. But, now we have a test unit available, it might be time to get the soldering iron out. They may well hate several reflections at slightly different times, or lots of other possibilities..

Your right amongst other things these units don't cope with non direct reflections. They have none of the anti-aliasing technology of later models. They work on the doppler principle. Non direct reflections that make their way back to the laser receiver by bouncing off adjacent cars, signs on the side of the road etc can add to the speed measured by the unit.

Typically headlights and other bright work of vehicles give the best reflections. At the distances you guys have discussed the divergence of the beam covers many many square feet and the incident beam (laser beam before reflection) covers many square feet from these units. At the distances you are talking about it is easy to get reflections from multiple vehicles. The unit tries to measure the reflections from the strongest source - this can easily be form a car following a bike or beside a bike or even a car with a better reflective surface behind another car ('seen' through the target car's windscreen).

The NZ written training guide I obtained from the police only tells the officers that the beam is pencil thin. No mention of divergence. And no mention of the further accululation dispersion effects of dust particles, etc over longer distances.

[FastBikeGear]

Do you ever see cars with compact discs dotted about the front windscreen? These tossers actually believe that the CD's will deflect the laser or radar police use, how precious!!!!!!!:lol:

Actually adding more reflective material to the front of the car helps the laser get a good return signal to 'lock' onto. you'd do better to de-chrome your vehicle and paint it matt black.

[FastBikeGear]

Well that looks like a bag 'o' fun! I'd be pinging the planes around here just for fun. Hell I'd be doing everything with it! Have fun.

The Pro Laser II unit is rated for 5-299mph so no good for planes travelling faster than that!