Moderators - Axis of Evil or simply members?

[Blackbird]

The posts on the Frosty thread and others reinforces that the members of Kiwi Biker are a genuine cross-section of society. Most members are fabulous – funny, positive, thoughtful, ever-willing to help those who need a helping hand. I met a number of my riding partners through Kiwi Biker and I absolutely treasure their company. However, there are a small percentage of members who are venal, abusive or make no worthwhile contribution to the site whatsoever; you’ve got to wonder why they stay on the site and what they get out of it. The glass is always half empty rather than half full. Using the “but this is the internet” excuse for poor behaviour is immature and lazy. Courtesy isn’t limited to face to face conversations.

The reason I bring this up is in the context of the on-going attacks on moderators by the relatively few. Given the tripe that that to be put up with on a daily basis, it’s little wonder that we can be seen as a bit authoritarian on occasions. Those who are members of other bike websites around the world would agree that KB has a very relaxed attitude to what gets posted in comparison with most sites, despite what some might think. Despite one or two members trying to portray mods as some omnipotent Axis of Evil, we’re bikers and members of KB first and foremost who are doing their level best to keep the site as a place to be enjoyed and valued. The amount of work that goes on behind the scenes takes a huge amount of time. I guess that what I’m trying to say is that if anyone feels motiviated to have a crack at the mods, have a good hard look at how your own behaviours affect the tone of the site too.

That’s all……. Mrs B and I off to see our first grandchild in Melbourne in a few hours. That puts the trials and tribulations of KB into its proper perspective!:eek:

[NZsarge]

Congratulations on the grandchild:niceone:

[yungatart]

I don't think of the mods as the "Axis of Evil", rather, tireless workers who put in an extraordinary amount of work behind the scenes.....with an exception or two.

However, when KB loses someone of Frosty's calibre because of stuff that happens behind the scenes, which we, the great unwashed, are not privy to, it brings in to question the moderate nature of "some" mods.
I have never seen a post of Frosty's that I would deem worthy of intervention by the mods. He is always there, putting up his hand to help, offer advice, support and equipment to any and all who ask for it.

This is one decision that I cannot get my head around...I would like to hear the other sides to this story, so I can make an informed judgement for myself, I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.

[Stickchick]

I don't think of the mods as the "Axis of Evil", rather, tireless workers who put in an extraordinary amount of work behind the scenes.....with an exception or two.

However, when KB loses someone of Frosty's calibre because of stuff that happens behind the scenes, which we, the great unwashed, are not privy to, it brings in to question the moderate nature of "some" mods.
I have never seen a post of Frosty's that I would deem worthy of intervention by the mods. He is always there, putting up his hand to help, offer advice, support and equipment to any and all who ask for it.

This is one decision that I cannot get my head around...I would like to hear the other sides to this story, so I can make an informed judgement for myself, I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.

+1............

[The Pastor]

they are a nessary evil, it would be better if they were not posters themself.

my only gripe with them is, they take every thing (except from there mates) too serrriouly. lighten up lol

[Blackbird]

I'm sorry, should have explained better. This has nothing to do with Frosty as such. It has everything to do with the behaviours of some members and the impact on the site.

[MVnut]

Some people are good with authority, others aren't:argh:

[rainman]

I don't think of the mods as the "Axis of Evil", rather, tireless workers who put in an extraordinary amount of work behind the scenes.....with an exception or two.

However, when KB loses someone of Frosty's calibre because of stuff that happens behind the scenes, which we, the great unwashed, are not privy to, it brings in to question the moderate nature of "some" mods.
I have never seen a post of Frosty's that I would deem worthy of intervention by the mods. He is always there, putting up his hand to help, offer advice, support and equipment to any and all who ask for it.

This is one decision that I cannot get my head around...I would like to hear the other sides to this story, so I can make an informed judgement for myself, I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.

+ another 1

[MVnut]

I'm sorry, should have explained better. This has nothing to do with Frosty as such. It has everything to do with the behaviours of some members and the impact on the site.

Either this IS to do with Frosty or your timing is impeccable ....IMHO

[deanohit]

Well said Black bird!

Personally, I've never had a problem with the mods, always got on with them fine in fact.
They do put up with shit they shouldn't have to as I reckon they're pretty lenient.

If you think the Kiwibiker mods are strict, try Rimfirecentral.com, try posting something off topic there, I got infracted for saying one of my rifles 'looks like shit', now those guys are heavy handed.

[Headbanger]

Being an observant type of chap, I have no idea who the mods even are, or what they get up to.

Which is fine by me.

But, Like all forums, If its causing them stress, then retire.

[James Deuce]

Being a Mod on KB is horrible. On one hand you have a bunch of rules to enforce, some of which you may not agree with, on the other you've got 20-25% of the membership who automatically mistrust anyone who says anything at all to moderate their behaviour and about 5% that go on vendetta. Most of you never see any of it which is as it should be. Then you have a clique of Mods who know each other's lives inside out who pounce on anyone, mod included, who might cross an invisible line that they weren't warned about.

For a social networking site this place is just too hard to like. Any effort you put into doing anything for anyone or anything is usually dismissed as being not enough by a bunch of lazy, slavering, rabid geeks wedded to their keyboards. Mods volunteer their time for fuck's sake! How about instead of just constant draining criticism you get off your arse and do something for other motorcyclists and stop spending your bile and ridicule on people who probably have better things to do anyway! Why is it that enthusiastic volunteers always end up crushed and dispirited? I'll tell you - People Suck.

[Grahameeboy]

Being a Mod on KB is horrible. On one hand you have a bunch of rules to enforce, some of which you may not agree with, on the other you've got 20-25% of the membership who automatically mistrust anyone who says anything at all to moderate their behaviour and about 5% that go on vendetta. Most of you never see any of it which is as it should be. Then you have a clique of Mods who know each other's lives inside out who pounce on anyone, mod included, who might cross an invisible line that they weren't warned about.

For a social networking site this place is just too hard to like. Any effort you put into doing anything for anyone or anything is usually dismissed as being not enough by a bunch of lazy, slavering, rabid geeks wedded to their keyboards. Mods volunteer their time for fuck's sake! How about instead of just constant draining criticism you get off your arse and do something for other motorcyclists and stop spending your bile and ridicule on people who probably have better things to do anyway! Why is it that enthusiastic volunteers always end up crushed and dispirited? I'll tell you - People Suck.

+++1........................

[Fatjim]

This place has changed.

[Grahameeboy]

This place has changed.

Yep, the only contact is change........that's life, it moves foward

[Krusti]

You're telling me.....

[Jantar]

they are a nessary evil, it would be better if they were not posters themself....

It is a general rule within the moderators' group that we don't moderate any thread that we are also an active participant in. Maybe that is why it can appear that one moderator will let something go, then a post may be moved and/or infracted by a different mod.

We are posters as well, that is why we joined the site.

[Blackbird]

Either this IS to do with Frosty or your timing is impeccable ....IMHO

It has to do with SOME of the responses on the Frosty thread but is NOT about Frosty. It did prompt me but it was not the root cause. It's the never-ending shite that provoked it. I've personally not had any problem with other mods and the ones that I've met, I like immensely. That excepted, Jim2's post does forcefully provide an insight into what a mod has to endure. Yet we still do it because it's worthwhile.

But to give it context as I've said before, most of the members that I've spoken to as part of a thread, PM'd or met in person are truly wonderful people.

[Conquiztador]

when I am considered worthy and asked to become Moderator.

If you think the current ones are tough, then you have seen nothing yet!!

I have soo much hatered, baggage and issues that I want to take out on you all!!!

I am spending my nights studying the contributors on here and building up a data base regarding who you are, your opinions, and your steps out of line.

So if you want to save your self from the embarrasement, humiliation and depression (and costly doctors bills) that my future un-aviodable selection to the Moderators ranks will cause, then you better start behaving now. Or suffer the consequenses.

Edited: Someone mentioned something I should have thought about: Bribes!! When the un-avoidable happens and I become a moderator, I would like you all to know that for the right amount of dineros I could be convinced to look the other way...

:devil2:

[moko]

Mods do a good job that will never,ever be appreciated by most users.I've seen other bike boards disintegrate in a barrage of abuse,threats and even hacking between various factions.Pathetic I know but sometimes feelings run high and people forget "it's only words on a screen".I've had stuff removed from here,something I commented on that got me a lot of positive rep points from various people but Mods apparently thought was too sensitive at the time...that's the way it goes though and I didn't lose sleep,hit the prozac or consult my lawyer.I've seen KB go from strength to strength,that's in no small part down to a lot of effort from the people who spend their time keeping an eye on things,something they do for no gain and more likely a whole heap of shit landed on them at times that I for one couldn't be bothered with.
I use another site very regularly,mainly older hands,sensible guys with plenty of maturity and life experience.Plenty of stuff gets pulled from that site,it's nothing personal,just that the rules are the rules,sometimes guys forget and the Mod steps in,never a big deal,guy's a good bloke and takes a lot of leg-pulling.there's a definate art to being a good Mod,it can kill a site or keep it running smoothly,so far KB has out-lasted 3 other sites i used to use so someone,somewhere's doing it right.You can't please everyone but trust me guys this place ticks over very smoothly and more importantly it's still here,that dosn't "just happen" so a bit of appreciation now and again would be good.

[Mental Trousers]

Duly noted and filed in the round, open topped filing cabinet for future reference :whistle:


when I am considered worthy and asked to become Moderator.

If you think the current ones are tough, then you have seen nothing yet!!

I have soo much hatered, baggage and issues that I want to take out on you all!!!

I am spending my nights studying the contributors on here and building up a data base regarding who you are, your opinions, and your steps out of line.

So if you want to save your self from the embarrasement, humiliation and depression (and costly doctors bills) that my future un-aviodable selection to the Moderators ranks will cause, then you better start behaving now. Or suffer the consequenses.

:devil2:

[Conquiztador]

Duly noted and filed in the round, open topped filing cabinet for future reference :whistle:

That will go in your file in my data base. Not looking good there...

[Qkkid]

I don't think of the mods as the "Axis of Evil", rather, tireless workers who put in an extraordinary amount of work behind the scenes.....with an exception or two.

However, when KB loses someone of Frosty's calibre because of stuff that happens behind the scenes, which we, the great unwashed, are not privy to, it brings in to question the moderate nature of "some" mods.
I have never seen a post of Frosty's that I would deem worthy of intervention by the mods. He is always there, putting up his hand to help, offer advice, support and equipment to any and all who ask for it.

This is one decision that I cannot get my head around...I would like to hear the other sides to this story, so I can make an informed judgement for myself, I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.
Well i think personally what Frosty did for the site in his area been allocated to him it did not need changing:yes: So what if the moderators dont all think alike, Certain people need to realise its not my way or you choose between 2 people or the highway.Its a sad day when people go down this track for their own means, thats what makes us New Zealanders and unique as kiwis.I will tell you the other side Janet pm your mobile number and i will get back to you.

[El Dopa]

I don't think of the mods as the "Axis of Evil", rather, tireless workers who put in an extraordinary amount of work behind the scenes.....with an exception or two.

However, when KB loses someone of Frosty's calibre because of stuff that happens behind the scenes, which we, the great unwashed, are not privy to, it brings in to question the moderate nature of "some" mods.
I have never seen a post of Frosty's that I would deem worthy of intervention by the mods. He is always there, putting up his hand to help, offer advice, support and equipment to any and all who ask for it.

This is one decision that I cannot get my head around...I would like to hear the other sides to this story, so I can make an informed judgement for myself, I'm sure I'm not the only one, either.

Couldn't have put it better myself.


Being a Mod on KB is horrible. On one hand you have a bunch of rules to enforce, some of which you may not agree with, on the other you've got 20-25% of the membership who automatically mistrust anyone who says anything at all to moderate their behaviour and about 5% that go on vendetta. Most of you never see any of it which is as it should be. Then you have a clique of Mods who know each other's lives inside out who pounce on anyone, mod included, who might cross an invisible line that they weren't warned about.

For a social networking site this place is just too hard to like. Any effort you put into doing anything for anyone or anything is usually dismissed as being not enough by a bunch of lazy, slavering, rabid geeks wedded to their keyboards. Mods volunteer their time for fuck's sake! How about instead of just constant draining criticism you get off your arse and do something for other motorcyclists and stop spending your bile and ridicule on people who probably have better things to do anyway! Why is it that enthusiastic volunteers always end up crushed and dispirited? I'll tell you - People Suck.

Again, I agree 100%. BUT. As I said in the other thread, it seems that some mods are suffering not so much from siege mentality as siege insanity.

I am very reluctant to bag the mods, for all the reasons you mention and more. But some of the decisions that are being made are making KB not a 'fun' place any more.

[Clivoris]

Mmm. I haven't been hanging around on here for that long but have noticed a change in the culture over that time. More experienced friends of mine have told me that this is the way of things on the interweb.
I have been bemused by some of the mods decisions that I have noticed. Such as piss-taking between people who obviously know each other and are up for it being removed, or posts that may be tangential to the topic, but bloody funny being binned. I would figure that if they aren't derailing the thread or causing problems for the thread starter, leave them in. Some threads could do with lightening up. I also suspect that there is much that goes on behind the scenes that I don't notice at all, that keeps this place ticking over.
However, on the balance I think they do a good job of making this an ok place to hang out. Some of the fun seems to have gone, but if that's what it takes to stop the personal abuse and offensive posts, then so be it. As someone in old blighty pointed out above, this site has some legs and is likely to last the distance. It's a bit like tv. Watch the stuff you want, ignore the crap and don't forget that websites are to life what masturbation is to sex.
I'm thankful to the mods for doing what they do. I might not like how some of the rules are enforced (and there is always a subjective element) but I know what they are and try to abide by them. I'm also getting better at not being so reactive to some of crap what gets flung. I might not agree with some people's perspectives but have to accept that they are entitled to them and give them kudos for having the courage to express them.

[MotoGirl]

I'd love for one of the mods to post his or her timetable and show everyone how much time they spend doing mod-related activities.

From what I've seen (via being married to a senior mod), they seem to start first thing in the morning, moderate all day (even when working), and go long into the night. When shit hits the fan, they're expected to jump online ASAP and discuss the best action to take. Should the lucky mod be absent from a computer, they receive text messages asking them to get online and pitch in.

Anyone baging the mods must be highly ignorant. Once you're a mod, you're a mod 24/7. Because of the commitment to KB it doesn't surprise me that they might give harsh punishments at times. I suspect every member would react the same way if they'd been dealing with such trivial crap and people's bitching. Get the fuck over it.

[McDuck]

All power to the mods, i am quite happy to let them do the work that they need to do. The fact is there are a few pains in the arss that are out to be a pain in the arss and there are a few people that just did not read the site rules before posting (me). So i will let them have the space to do what they need to do and when i question it, i do it with a :love: (in a non gay way)(if it is a bloke mod)

[Skyryder]

If you are going to have rules there will always be some who will break them. So if that pisses some off then the answer is to have no rules. Makes sense to me. Why am I the only one??

Skyryder

[enigma51]

when I am considered worthy and asked to become Moderator.


Do you know the secret handshake yet :bleh:

[James Deuce]

Don't! They make you get your Oenis out!

[Her_C4]

Don't! They make you get your Oenis out!

They do?????? :buggerd::eek5::shit:

[Virago]

So are moderators really necessary?

There is a small but vocal minority of KBers who think not. Let everyone post what they want, when they want, where they want. It's "just the internet", don't take it so seriously...

But who would want to participate? The forums would swiftly degenerate to the lowest common denominator, and be a nasty place indeed. Not one I would frequent for sure. Anyone who thinks that KB would be the same or better without rules or controls is in a dream world.

KB is very successful under its current structure. Too successful it could be argued - a victim of its own popularity. However, the numbers speak for themselves.

An interesting fact is that, while the usual suspects are howling with outrage and hurling their abuse and vitriol at the mods, it is the very relaxed structure of KB that allows them to do so. Go figure...

So - who should be the moderators?

It goes without saying that those who are actively promoting themselves as potential moderators are in fact the worst possible people for the job. It is the "Douglas Adams" theory in action - those who really want the job are by that fact, the very people who shouldn't be considered.

Alas that so few understand what the moderators actually do. It is too easy to concentrate on the shrieks of outrage and venomous vitriol from those who received an infraction for breaking the basic site rules. The bulk of the work, which keeps the site running smoothly, goes sight unseen. However there is a perverse pleasure in that fact.

I must indeed be a masochist...

[Mr Merde]

....It goes without saying that those who are actively promoting themselves as potential moderators are in fact the worst possible people for the job. It is the "Douglas Adams" theory in action - those who really want the job are by that fact, the very people who shouldn't be considered.

......

Plagerised by Douglas Adams.

An idea originally attributed to Plato a couple of centuries earlier and use in the context of those seeking political power of any kind.

Wasnt Plato forced to drink Hemlock by the powers of his time. Apparently for his excursions with young boys but then he was Greek and that was an accepted practice of the then current culture. Upon reflection it may have been his teacher, Socrates.

Maybe even then it wasnt wise to buck those who seek to impose their personal agenda upon the masses.

Everything I have learnt in life is correct. Life is circular and the same shit happens. When will we learn.


Merde

[Boob Johnson]

Yep, the only contact is change........that's life, it moves foward*constant* :msn-wink:




Mods here do a fantastic job IMHO. Im a member of many other sites & a few of them are run very poorly

[Tank]

I have been a member of a number of very large forums over the years (miata.net as an example) and all the successful boards rely on good mod's.

Without them you might as well be posting on trademe community boards.

There will always be issues - but they makes the rules and enforce them - if you feel strongly enough complain to the snr mods - still no luck then the forum is obviously not for you. Either accept the rules or leave.

These guys give, time, effort, and support to something that all of us get something out of - costing us nothing.

They should be applauded not banged up on.

[McDuck]

Yes. The TM bord sucks real bad, but it can be fun pissing them off :)

[Grahameeboy]

*constant* :msn-wink:




Mods here do a fantastic job IMHO. Im a member of many other sites & a few of them are run very poorly

Yep you right.......................I agree with Mods doing a good job etc although some things happen are a bit weird but I don't mind weird

[Virago]

...but I don't mind weird.

So the rumours are true...? :done:

[Swoop]

KB is very successful under its current structure. Too successful it could be argued - a victim of its own popularity. However, the numbers speak for themselves..
Please provide evidence of this. Dollars earned? Satisfied customers? Sales "up"???

So - who should be the moderators?

It goes without saying that those who are actively promoting themselves as potential moderators are in fact the worst possible people for the job.
Who are these people?
Spank has the final say, so why worry about it? The simple fact is that the current "batch" of mods have been painted with the same brush.
The smarter ones have said "not likely".

It is too easy to concentrate on the shrieks of outrage and venomous vitriol from those who received an infraction for breaking the basic site rules.
The "site rules" are posted. The "other" rules seem to move more than a real politicians' goalpost...

[yungatart]

So are moderators really necessary?

There is a small but vocal minority of KBers who think not. Let everyone post what they want, when they want, where they want. It's "just the internet", don't take it so seriously...



But do we need to be so heavily moderated when most of us (by your own admission) are reasonable and mature.
I mean, FFS, an infraction for posting in the wrong forum?
Why can't the mods just move it, if it is such a big problem?
Its kind of like hitting a carpet tack with a freakin sledge hammer, don't you think????

[Kickaha]

But do we need to be so heavily moderated when most of us (by your own admission) are reasonable and mature.
I mean, FFS, an infraction for posting in the wrong forum?
Why can't the mods just move it, if it is such a big problem?
Its kind of like hitting a carpet tack with a freakin sledge hammer, don't you think????

Heavily moderated? I doubt it


Why should we have to move a thread just because someone can't be bothered putting it in the right place to start with?

In the old days (pre infraction) Spankme would just red rep you for it, so you have him to thank for that ( and every other infraction)

[Jantar]

Ahhh, I'm starting to see a side issue here. It appears that some members are treating infractions as though they are some sort of penalty.

They are actually a warning to the member that they have done something that needs looking at. An infraction for posting in the wrong forum is worth two points and it expires in a short period of time, only one month. A user would have to gain 10 of these infractions within that month to suffer the first actual penalty of not being able to use rep.

So what is the problem with receiving a 2 point infraction occassionally? It doesn't affect your rep, or anything else you do on the site.

[MSTRS]

Why should we have to move a thread just because someone can't be bothered putting it in the right place to start with?


The problem here is that often (although I agree that sometimes there may be malicious intent in wrong forum posting) it is a matter of interpretation as to the 'correct' forum. A mod's thought processes are not going to be the same as the poster's, leading to an unfair infraction from the poster's point of view. A small point, but still valid. And if people feel they have been dealt with unfairly, they are going to be that much quicker to mod-bash. Simpler to just move a post/thread if it is 'ambiguous' as to forum.

[Hitcher]

Maybe I am an Evel Arsehole afterall.

[hospitalfood]

I was about to express my opinion but a group of evil moderators arrived at the door.

[Grahameeboy]

I was about to express my opinion but a group of evil moderators arrived at the door.

How did the all get from Christchurch so quickly??

[Fatjim]

I've only been infracted twice, both for supposedly posting in the wrong forum. I honestly didn't give a shit, and the mods didn't either, and yes it was Joni who broke my cherry.

Infractions are not there to hurt your feeling, just to gently caress you into thinking about where you went "wrong".

I'm sure there are some people who wear their infractions as a badge of honour (queue Finn), but most of us left primary school some time ago.

[Toaster]

So - who should be the moderators?

It goes without saying that those who are actively promoting themselves as potential moderators are in fact the worst possible people for the job.

Well said Virago. Reminds me of some security guards I used to have the unfortunate task of dealing with from time to time... wannabe cops of the worst kind. Damn scary of any if them ever made it past the intelligence tests.

I am sure the Mods job is one few of us would ever consider, let alone be able enough or willing enough to take on. I don't know how you all find the time to do all the stuff you must have to do!

[Virago]

...I don't know how you all find the time to do all the stuff you must have to do!

I don't. I'm being reminded right now that I'm supposed to be doing the paperwork for the business...:rolleyes:

Incidentally, there are many KBers who would make great moderators. Many have been approached, and declined - who could blame them, eh?

[McDuck]

I have a question about infractions. How long before they go away or i can delete them from the user CP page?
Thanks

[Grahameeboy]

I have a question about infractions. How long before they go away or i can delete them from the user CP page?
Thanks

I think they stay there as a permanent reminder..............

[Virago]

I have a question about infractions. How long before they go away or i can delete them from the user CP page?
Thanks

This should tell you all you need to know...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=33936

[McDuck]

This should tell you all you need to know...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=33936

I did read that before asking the question beleve it or not.... and it did not help. Bugger.....

[inlinefour]

In the old days (pre infraction) Spankme would just red rep you for it, so you have him to thank for that ( and every other infraction)

I guess back then it took some time for him to get sick of it and handed the hassle over to others, I can understand why. Sadly there will allways be individuals who want to troll. I admit that when I joined, that was the only reason I was here. However as I got to meet others my attitude changed and after my accident I grew up. At the end of the day there will allways be those out there who have problems with authority and/or need to grow up. Its possibly true that some members are here just to troll and get a kick out of doing it/upsetting others. Its true that people might not behave online as they would in actual life and the history of KiwiBiker would certianly support that. Jim2's post of what its actually like to be a mod left me wondering why on Earth anyone would want to be doing it. I am also doubtfull that the site would successfully run without some sort of moderating due to the different personalities here. The actual fact of the matter is that Spankme has decided in his wisdom to set up and run this website and it could be true that some others may have shut it all down because of the unpleasentness. We might all like motorcycles and own a computer, but we are here on this site because one individual has put it there for us. I for one are thankfull of this fact and think we should all be. If we as aa individual do something we should have not in real life there are consequences. Should KiwiBiker be different and if so why?

[Qkkid]

I have a question about infractions. How long before they go away or i can delete them from the user CP page?
Thanks

:niceone:Shit Virago gave me one it lasts for 3 months :bleh:

[McDuck]

I guess back then it took some time for him to get sick of it and handed the hassle over to others, I can understand why. Sadly there will allways be individuals who want to troll. I admit that when I joined, that was the only reason I was here. However as I got to meet others my attitude changed and after my accident I grew up. At the end of the day there will allways be those out there who have problems with authority and/or need to grow up. Its possibly true that some members are here just to troll and get a kick out of doing it/upsetting others. Its true that people might not behave online as they would in actual life and the history of KiwiBiker would certianly support that. Jim2's post of what its actually like to be a mod left me wondering why on Earth anyone would want to be doing it. I am also doubtfull that the site would successfully run without some sort of moderating due to the different personalities here. The actual fact of the matter is that Spankme has decided in his wisdom to set up and run this website and it could be true that some others may have shut it all down because of the unpleasentness. We might all like motorcycles and own a computer, but we are here on this site because one individual has put it there for us. I for one are thankfull of this fact and think we should all be. If we as aa individual do something we should have not in real life there are consequences. Should KiwiBiker be different and if so why?


Do new bikes change? Do people move on? Do people have an experience that changes there point of view? Yes. This is why KB should change weather it is into a more respectful place over a certain topic, a swing to one side of biking or the other (altho i hope it can stay across the bord). Think of the CC campaign, who before labor weekend REALY knew abotut the dangers of them? We sure as hell do now. and how Meany life's have been saved by this information directly, how many will be saved by the campaign to get rid of them? We dont know. How many peoples lives have been saved by the mechanical bord? Survival skills? I learnt stuff in there the day i got my licence that has saved my skin a number of times.

I guess what i am tryign to get at is if this site had not changed with the times the biker world could/would be a different and scarier place.

[moko]

At the end of the day there will allways be those out there who have problems with authority and/or need to grow up.

Agree to an extent mate but if someone really has a problem with authority then they're better off taking on their Government over things they think are wrong,joining protest groups,starting petitions e.t.c. Anyone who really thinks they're anti-authoritarian but lets the real issues in life continue while they keep quiet but spout off under an alias about a web-site and the people that run it is just mis-guided at best.It's not being anti-authority,it's being selective about who you complain about,same people tend to be the same ones who suffer in silence at bad treatment from their boss,unfairness,discrimination,bad laws e.t.c. where it takes guts to stand your ground and speak out...not a keyboard and anonymity.The choice is always "if you don't like it move on" and if everyone who had issues with the mods here did I doubt the vast majority who were left would notice that they'd gone.

[Finn]

...but most of us left primary school some time ago.

and it appears, didn't further their education from that point on.

[Grahameeboy]

and it appears, didn't further their education from that point on.

Edewcation is not jist lerned at scool ya know..................

[idleidolidyll]

Yes, there are some members who are deliberately offensive but there are also moderators who hold grudges and act partially (I have been threatened in such a manner by a moderator and in addition told that other moderators were "out to get me").

I reckon the secrecy is the problem.
A famous quote goes like this: "Justice must not only be done, it must be SEEN to be done".

On KB no visible justice is present. We never see what moderators do to abusers and it seems they just continue to abuse and inflame. Until the secret squirrel bullshit ends, people will always become pissed off with constant attacks on them personally and will eventually react.

The system itself is at fault.

[Grahameeboy]

Yes, there are some members who are deliberately offensive but there are also moderators who hold grudges and act partially (I have been threatened in such a manner by a moderator and in addition told that other moderators were "out to get me").

I reckon the secrecy is the problem.
A famous quote goes like this: "Justice must not only be done, it must be SEEN to be done".

On KB no visible justice is present. We never see what moderators do to abusers and it seems they just continue to abuse and inflame. Until the secret squirrel bullshit ends, people will always become pissed off with constant attacks on them personally and will eventually react.

The system itself is at fault.

We will be asymulated, exterminate, exterminate.............

We all have a choice. We can let some one piss us off or ignore them..........the Mods apply the rules as best they can and it is not down to them that the abuser feels abused........

[Finn]

Edewcation is not jist lerned at scool ya know..................

I agree, but it sure does provide a good foundation... Something seriously lacking in NZ.

[scumdog]

I think they stay there as a permanent reminder..............

Yup.
My one still glares at me almost a year down the track!:woohoo:

[Grahameeboy]

I agree, but it sure does provide a good foundation... Something seriously lacking in NZ.

To a point I guess but education is all about academics etc and it is all programmed which life is not about.................when you get your test paper you have revised the subject and sometimes see old papers to give you an idea of how the paper is formatted..............in life you don't get this.............I am sure you did not get where you are today because of school..............

[Grahameeboy]

Yup.
My one still glares at me almost a year down the track!:woohoo:

Like this you mean?

[scumdog]

Like this you mean?


No, not quite as nicely as that!!

[Conquiztador]

We are all humans. Moderators and non-moderators. We all have feelings and some things do affect us more then others. We all make mistakes. To admit that you have made a mistake is what makes you different.

I have no interest in knowing what goes on behind the scene between the moderators. I came aboard and accepted the rules. If I do not like them I am free to leave. Or I can buy the site and install my own rules.

Keep up the good work. I have no complaints. Correct me when I step out of line. It is the easy solution as I have not read the rules. But sofar I can not see that there would be a difficoulty here.

I was on a US technical site that I found very useful re serious stuff. There was a discussion about some technical calculations that went right over my head. When I asked some qustions they asked me re my qualifications, and after telling them honestly I was kicked out as I did not hold the qualifications needed to be there...

[Grahameeboy]

No, not quite as nicely as that!!

But but I thought you were into 'Hawks':shifty:

[idleidolidyll]

We will be asymulated, exterminate, exterminate.............

We all have a choice. We can let some one piss us off or ignore them..........the Mods apply the rules as best they can and it is not down to them that the abuser feels abused........

bollocks

what then is the point of having moderators?

[BIGBOSSMAN]

On this website http://sportbikerider.17.forumer.com/index.php
self-regulation is the golden rule. We're all growed up and mature there, and is things get out of hand you're only likely to cop a serve of abuse or told to fuck off. However, because most inmates are the rowdy funlovin' reprobate type that's highly unlikely.
Just like the good old days...

[DMNTD]

On this website http://sportbikerider.17.forumer.com/index.php
self-regulation is the golden rule. We're all growed up and mature there, and is things get out of hand you're only likely to cop a serve of abuse or told to fuck off. However, because most inmates are the rowdy funlovin' reprobate type that's highly unlikely.
Just like the good old days...

I resent being called a grown up!

[BarBender]

I resent being called a grown up!


I can vouch for the fact that this honky aint no grown up.

[Blackbird]

But do we need to be so heavily moderated when most of us (by your own admission) are reasonable and mature.
I mean, FFS, an infraction for posting in the wrong forum?
Why can't the mods just move it, if it is such a big problem?
Its kind of like hitting a carpet tack with a freakin sledge hammer, don't you think????


Well, that's one thing that hasn't changed then which undermines your contention! My only infraction was earned about 18 months ago when Spank moderated and he pinged me for posting in the wrong forum. So there you go....... things maybe don't change as much as you think.(FFS:rolleyes:)

[Usarka]

Bloody nazis.

:whistle:

[McDuck]

Bloody nazis.

:whistle:

yep.......

[Grahameeboy]

bollocks

what then is the point of having moderators?

I knew the simple stuff would get ya.

[idleidolidyll]

the overly simplistic junk?

every time

[Finn]

what then is the point of having moderators?

Because otherwise we'd all tell you what we really thought of you and that would make you really sad... and then probably very angry.

Look, the mods used to hate me much like they do you right now (I think they actually hate you more) but once I found out what their real names were and their bank accounts, a little money here, a little money there and presto, I could call you an arrogant cunt and I wouldn't get infracted.

[Grahameeboy]

the overly simplistic junk?

every time

Better than overly complicated junk...................

[Grahameeboy]

Because otherwise we'd all tell you what we really thought of you and that would make you really sad... and then probably very angry.

Look, the mods used to hate me much like they do you right now (I think they actually hate you more) but once I found out what their real names were and their bank accounts, a little money here, a little money there and presto, I could call you an arrogant cunt and I wouldn't get infracted.

Such unusual restrain Mr Finn...................green bling to you

[Finn]

Such unusual restrain Mr Finn...................green bling to you

Today is a good day. It's zero tax for 2007 so the likes of Idle and his lazy arse, good for nothing, dumbarse loser lefty friends can go rattle their tins somewhere else.

I'm happy.

[Grahameeboy]

Today is a good day. It's zero tax for 2007 so the likes of Idle and his lazy arse, good for nothing, dumbarse loser lefty friends can go rattle their tins somewhere else.

I'm happy.

So you made a loss then?

[Mom]

I'm happy.

And it shows! Hope you stay happy for a very long time.

[Finn]

So you made a loss then?

Yeah, a big one. I don't know how I'm going to pull through.

[Finn]

And it shows! Hope you stay happy for a very long time.

Actually, the happy bit was an opening for a dwarf joke but you missed that.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, a big one. Kerry Packer style.

Ah well....tis only money and you still got paid........

[Conquiztador]

Actually, the happy bit was an opening for a dwarf joke but you missed that.

REPOST!! ;)

[Mom]

Actually, the happy bit was an opening for a dwarf joke but you missed that.


Well, I actually was refraining from using the dwarfish line cos I could not decide which one suited you best mate........it was a toss up between grumpy, dopey or bashful. I settled on bashful but thought you would probably find that offensive and report my post as abusive. :bleh:

[Ixion]

Yes, there are some members who are deliberately offensive but there are also moderators who hold grudges and act partially (I have been threatened in such a manner by a moderator and in addition told that other moderators were "out to get me").

..

They are not out to get you. It is not personal. The Mods' Mantra is "Fit In or Fuck Off". You are not listening to the message. Your opinions do not fit in, your politics are quite wrong and you are not compliant. All you need do is change them to those approved by the Heaven Born. Then you will Fit In .

[idleidolidyll]

They are not out to get you. It is not personal. The Mods' Mantra is "Fit In or Fuck Off". You are not listening to the message. Your opinions do not fit in, your politics are quite wrong and you are not compliant. All you need do is change them to those approved by the Heaven Born. Then you will Fit In .

Nope, a particular moderator sent me a PM TELLING me that he and other moderators were "out to get me"

There was nothing equivocal about it and despite promises by senior mods, nothing has been done to my knowledge so far.

As for 'fit in or fuck off': what a pile of bullshit. I don't WANT to be like you, or finn, or any others here. I have my own valid opinions, I'm not a toady and I don't suck up.

My politics might not be your cuppa tea or those of the loudmouths who oppose me but the overwhelming number of PM's in my inbox show me that the silent majority is in support but doesn't care to play stupid games with fascists and dipshits online. I'm more than happy to take those to task on their behalf.

So yes, the moderators ARE responsible for the tone of the board and only they have the power to cease the bullshit here. That's never gonna happen while it's all kept secret though. Secrecy serves the idiots and the ignorant but it doesn't serve justice or free speech.

[denill]

Why should we have to move a thread just because someone can't be bothered putting it in the right place to start with?



Therein lies a lot of the problem - the *right* place is subjective - but only the mod's counts. Then the poster gets an infraction? :bash: :bash:

[Grahameeboy]

Nope, a particular moderator sent me a PM TELLING me that he and other moderators were "out to get me"

There was nothing equivocal about it and despite promises by senior mods, nothing has been done to my knowledge so far.

As for 'fit in or fuck off': what a pile of bullshit. I don't WANT to be like you, or finn, or any others here. I have my own valid opinions, I'm not a toady and I don't suck up.

My politics might not be your cuppa tea or those of the loudmouths who oppose me but the overwhelming number of PM's in my inbox show me that the silent majority is in support but doesn't care to play stupid games with fascists and dipshits online. I'm more than happy to take those to task on their behalf.

So yes, the moderators ARE responsible for the tone of the board and only they have the power to cease the bullshit here. That's never gonna happen while it's all kept secret though. Secrecy serves the idiots and the ignorant but it doesn't serve justice or free speech.

Sigh.....................

This bullshit was started by members not the Mod's. They made a decision which, like you, they considered a 'valid opinion' and, to use what you have said, the 'silent majority' do not seem too bothered so the bullshit has been created by members who just want to create for the sake of it when Frosty himself has asked for this all too stop.

Secrecy...well the Mod's have explained but as usual it is not enough for some members. If there is nothing to defend then they do not have to justify their actions or point fingers.

[idleidolidyll]

Sigh.....................

This bullshit was started by members not the Mod's. They made a decision which, like you, they considered a 'valid opinion' and, to use what you have said, the 'silent majority' do not seem too bothered so the bullshit has been created by members who just want to create for the sake of it when Frosty himself has asked for this all too stop.

Secrecy...well the Mod's have explained but as usual it is not enough for some members. If there is nothing to defend then they do not have to justify their actions or point fingers.

opinions opinions, we all have them and we all think ours are the best.

as noted, despite promises, no senior mod has done anything yet re the threat by another mod except say he'll eventually get around to it.

i'm underwhelmed.

the secrecy will continue and along with the secrecy the bullshit will continue; they go hand in hand

[Grahameeboy]

opinions opinions, we all have them and we all think ours are the best.

as noted, despite promises, no senior mod has done anything yet re the threat by another mod except say he'll eventually get around to it.

i'm underwhelmed.

the secrecy will continue and along with the secrecy the bullshit will continue; they go hand in hand

Actually I was using your 'analogy' and just trying to put a different perspective on things as opposed to saying my opinion is the best which with the greatest of respect is your approach which is fine and your right.

Secrecy? Well I don't see any and this so called secrecy seems to be based on stories and I think (okay this is an opinion) that the Mod's are just riding things out rather than fueling the issue and paranoia which makes sense.

They have made a decision and good on them for sticking by it against what is really a minority.

Anyway, how is the real world doing?

[idleidolidyll]

Moderators must be held to a higher standard; they CHOSE to volunteer and correct me if I'm wrong; they are required to treat all people equally and fairly.

As for the running of the board: when some tosser posts a personal attack or tries to deliberately inflame and provoke a shit fight, you are supposed to refrain from responding in kind and instead send a message to a moderator who is then supposed to do something about it.
You are never allowed to know what action is taken or indeed, if any action has even BEEN taken.
So you go back to the board and the same fukwit is posting the same bullshit and you think to yourself: "The moderators have done nothing"

What does that mean? What does it lead to?

It means the system is a FAILURE. It leads to continued bullshit and expanded shit fights.

A while ago quasi decided to "name and shame" a fellow member. That backfired when it became apparent that he did so on the back of a grudge he had against that member from the past. However, the idea was right: if justice is not seen to be done it is as effective as pissing into the ocean.

I don't give a damn what the moderators excuses are: the system is a failure and unless it is changed the bullshit will never cease.

[MSTRS]

Secrecy...well the Mod's have explained but as usual it is not enough for some members. If there is nothing to defend then they do not have to justify their actions or point fingers.

Got your tinfoil hat on today, Grahame??
If an accusation is made, then there is a case to defend. Even if the accusation is bullshit. We see it in court everyday.
The problem with the mod system in this regard, is there is no independent highest authority. To draw parallels, does anyone really trust the CPA??
No matter how one looks at it, the Joni/Kickaha thing has done a great deal of harm. How can anyone know for sure that a couple are absolutely squeaky clean when it comes to impartiality?
Would you want Clint Rickards and Bob Schollum sharing duties as Deputy Commissioner??
I think not.

[idleidolidyll]

Actually I was using your 'analogy' and just trying to put a different perspective on things as opposed to saying my opinion is the best which with the greatest of respect is your approach which is fine and your right.

Secrecy? Well I don't see any and this so called secrecy seems to be based on stories and I think (okay this is an opinion) that the Mod's are just riding things out rather than fueling the issue and paranoia which makes sense.

They have made a decision and good on them for sticking by it against what is really a minority.

Anyway, how is the real world doing?

You don't 'see' secrecy?

that's the point of it; you're not supposed to see it.

I understand the mods have their own forum where they discuss members and issues but we can't see it. If we could see it we'd see their motivations and the work they do. Because we can't see it we can't trust them to act impartially.
When you or others make a complaint of abuse do you see the results or are you told what has been done? Nope, that's a 'secret' and because of those silly secrets nobody can have any confidence that the mods are acting impartially or even doing their job.

[idleidolidyll]

Got your tinfoil hat on today, Grahame??
If an accusation is made, then there is a case to defend. Even if the accusation is bullshit. We see it in court everyday.
The problem with the mod system in this regard, is there is no independent highest authority. To draw parallels, does anyone really trust the CPA??
No matter how one looks at it, the Joni/Kickaha thing has done a great deal of harm. How can anyone know for sure that a couple are absolutely squeaky clean when it comes to impartiality?
Would you want Clint Rickards and Bob Schollum sharing duties as Deputy Commissioner??
I think not.

My EXPERIENCE is that mods are NOT impartial. I have been told so specifically by a moderator and so far, despite my official complaint, nothing has been done about it.

Secrecy is the problem; it helps people hide their petty agendas.

[MSTRS]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1302900&postcount=441
Could he have told us himself?? :Pokey::chase:

[idleidolidyll]

really?

more evidence of the lack of accountability of mods

[Finn]

really?

more evidence of the lack of accountability of mods

You're a lefty. What would you know about accountability?

[Grahameeboy]

Got your tinfoil hat on today, Grahame??
If an accusation is made, then there is a case to defend. Even if the accusation is bullshit. We see it in court everyday.
The problem with the mod system in this regard, is there is no independent highest authority. To draw parallels, does anyone really trust the CPA??
No matter how one looks at it, the Joni/Kickaha thing has done a great deal of harm. How can anyone know for sure that a couple are absolutely squeaky clean when it comes to impartiality?
Would you want Clint Rickards and Bob Schollum sharing duties as Deputy Commissioner??
I think not.

Tin foil hat?

A tin-foil hat or aluminium foil deflector beanie is a piece of headgear made from one or more sheets of aluminium foil or similar material. Some people wear the hats in the belief that they act to shield the brain from such influences as electromagnetic fields, or against alien interference mind control and/or mind reading.

The concept of wearing a tinfoil hat for protection from such threats has become a popular stereotype and term of derision. The phrase serves as a byword for paranoia and is often used to characterize conspiracy theorists.

Mmmmm??

This is not a Court of Law which requires a greater onus on proof, this is an Internet Forum.

To be honest I am not really bothered about this Joni / Kickaha thing and this just sounds like a load of old bitching to me. I think we need to move on.

Is Spank Me not the highest Authority? Sounds like he has not issues.

[idleidolidyll]

You're a lefty. What would you know about accountability?

a damn sight more than capitalists

capitalism is about personal greed; socialism is about the good of the whole

[Grahameeboy]

You don't 'see' secrecy?

that's the point of it; you're not supposed to see it.

I understand the mods have their own forum where they discuss members and issues but we can't see it. If we could see it we'd see their motivations and the work they do. Because we can't see it we can't trust them to act impartially.
When you or others make a complaint of abuse do you see the results or are you told what has been done? Nope, that's a 'secret' and because of those silly secrets nobody can have any confidence that the mods are acting impartially or even doing their job.

So if you cannot see secrecy, how do you know it is there in the first place?

I think that secrecy is often from within.........

[idleidolidyll]

So if you cannot see secrecy, how do you know it is there in the first place?

I think that secrecy is often from within.........

good grief! didn't you read that before clicking 'post'?

i've explained it already, s h a l l i p o s t i t v e r y s l o w l y ?

[Grahameeboy]

My EXPERIENCE is that mods are NOT impartial. I have been told so specifically by a moderator and so far, despite my official complaint, nothing has been done about it.

Secrecy is the problem; it helps people hide their petty agendas.

Okay, the Mods volunteer to do the job even if they are asked they can say no. They are human and I guess they may not always be impartial, however, I guess if you attack a Mod then you may expect to receive it back......

[Grahameeboy]

good grief! didn't you read that before clicking 'post'?

i've explained it already, s h a l l i p o s t i t v e r y s l o w l y ?

No I read it and I am happy with it............

[idleidolidyll]

Okay, the Mods volunteer to do the job even if they are asked they can say no. They are human and I guess they may not always be impartial, however, I guess if you attack a Mod then you may expect to receive it back......

rubbish. If a mod does a shit job they DESERVE to be taken to task; they should be held to a higher standard.

However, because of the secrecy, we don't know what bullshit goes down behind the scenes.

If a mod posts in the forum itself, they MUST be held to a standard that sets an example. If that example is petty childishness, what can we expect of ordinary members?

[Grahameeboy]

rubbish. If a mod does a shit job they DESERVE to be taken to task; they should be held to a higher standard.

However, because of the secrecy, we don't know what bullshit goes down behind the scenes.

If a mod posts in the forum itself, they MUST be held to a standard that sets an example. If that example is petty childishness, what can we expect of ordinary members?

I guess that is subjective..............

I think we put too much expectation on the Mods when they are volunteers.

In a nutshell there are more important things to worry about than the Mods...............

[idleidolidyll]

Basically, if the mods are not doing an effective or impartial job, it would be better that they did absolutely nothing at all and just let the shit fights go on.

What would happen is that most members would put the worst offenders on ignore after pointing out what tossers they are.

I prefer a different approach: Truly IMPARTIAL moderators who do a VISIBLE and job of keeping the board civil. I prefer NOT to censor any persons post as even the most ignorant abusers occasionally post something worth reading.

[idleidolidyll]

I guess that is subjective..............

I think we put too much expectation on the Mods when they are volunteers.

In a nutshell there are more important things to worry about than the Mods...............

No we don't.

We SHOULD expect the moderators to do an impartial and visible job to the best of their ability. If we don't expect that at the very least; we have no need for moderators at all. It's just a power trip.

[Grahameeboy]

Basically, if the mods are not doing an effective or impartial job, it would be better that they did absolutely nothing at all and just let the shit fights go on.

What would happen is that most members would put the worst offenders on ignore after pointing out what tossers they are.

I prefer a different approach: Truly IMPARTIAL moderators who do a VISIBLE and job of keeping the board civil. I prefer NOT to censor any persons post as even the most ignorant abusers occasionally post something worth reading.

Well I guess that would keep you happy.................sorry could not resist that one as you did walk into that one..........and that is not a personal attach just appeals to my sense of humour which you may say I have not got but it made me laugh.

[Grahameeboy]

No we don't.

We SHOULD expect the moderators to do an impartial and visible job to the best of their ability. If we don't expect that at the very least; we have no need for moderators at all. It's just a power trip.

Who is "we"

I reckon that any Mods who use this site as a power trip are deluded cause how can you have power over members of a website................I have not met any of the Mod's...........I do not feel that they have power over me....

[idleidolidyll]

Well I guess that would keep you happy.................sorry could not resist that one as you did walk into that one..........and that is not a personal attach just appeals to my sense of humour which you may say I have not got but it made me laugh.

No, it would NOT suit me and you only have to read and UNDERSTAND my posts so far to see that I would prefer a visible impartial system.

as for your sense of humour: yawn

[Grahameeboy]

No, it would NOT suit me and you only have to read and UNDERSTAND my posts so far to see that I would prefer a visible impartial system.

as for your sense of humour: yawn

So we is now me................Mod's please note that we have 1 unblemished vote against you.

Sorry that I make you yawn, however, I am at home all day so have a good snooze

[idleidolidyll]

Who is "we"

I reckon that any Mods who use this site as a power trip are deluded cause how can you have power over members of a website................I have not met any of the Mod's...........I do not feel that they have power over me....

'We' is the whole board, even the losers and dipshits.

Yes, some mods DO seem deluded in their childish little power trips. They DO have power regardless of whether or not YOU are able to see it.
They have the power to shut you down and curtail free speech here. They have the power to direct discussion away from subjects they are uncomfortable with or positions they oppose: that is a huge power.

If they exercise ANY of that power, this board becomes an irrelevant piece of nonsense dedicated not to the NZ motorcycling community but to the partisan bullshit to which certain members with power subscribe.

Maybe KB is past it's due date. Maybe a TRULY impartial and open discussion forum is needed.

[MSTRS]

Hey Idleboy, this thread is for moaning and bitching about the mods. If you want to persist in offering helpful suggestions, go start another thread dedicated to that....

[idleidolidyll]

So we is now me................Mod's please note that we have 1 unblemished vote against you.

Sorry that I make you yawn, however, I am at home all day so have a good snooze

nope, we has always been we despite your simplistic attempts at manipulation.

yes, you do become a bore after a while

[Grahameeboy]

'We' is the whole board, even the losers and dipshits.

Yes, some mods DO seem deluded in their childish little power trips. They DO have power regardless of whether or not YOU are able to see it.
They have the power to shut you down and curtail free speech here. They have the power to direct discussion away from subjects they are uncomfortable with or positions they oppose: that is a huge power.

If they exercise ANY of that power, this board becomes an irrelevant piece of nonsense dedicated not to the NZ motorcycling community but to the partisan bullshit to which certain members with power subscribe.

Maybe KB is past it's due date. Maybe a TRULY impartial and open discussion forum is needed.

So you speak for all do you.............

Well if I do not see the power then it does not affect me.............

[idleidolidyll]

Hey Idleboy, this thread is for moaning and bitching about the mods. If you want to persist in offering helpful suggestions, go start another thread dedicated to that....

shit! sorry MSTRS.................battling ignorami is a constant chore and sadly it crosses all boundaries

:spanking:

[Grahameeboy]

nope, we has always been we despite your simplistic attempts at manipulation.

yes, you do become a bore after a while

Manipulation?

Well I guess it depends on the reason why I bore you. Either I am talking complete crap or I am doing a good job of debating your points..............

I guess that simple is often to easy to see.

[idleidolidyll]

So you speak for all do you.............

Well if I do not see the power then it does not affect me.............

I see, so if you don't see cancer it can't hurt you?

please try to think logically, the opposite is laughable nonsense

No, I don't speak for everyone but neither do you. Your reasoning is unsound and seems to be based on blind support for the board deities regardless of the bullshit they may do here.
I prefer clear logic to blind ignorance.

[idleidolidyll]

Manipulation?

Well I guess it depends on the reason why I bore you. Either I am talking complete crap or I am doing a good job of debating your points..............

I guess that simple is often to easy to see.

yes, it's very clear: you're not doing a very good job at all so the other seems most likely

[Grahameeboy]

I see, so if you don't see cancer it can't hurt you?

please try to think logically, the opposite is laughable nonsense

No, I don't speak for everyone but neither do you. Your reasoning is unsound and seems to be based on blind support for the board deities regardless of the bullshit they may do here.
I prefer clear logic to blind ignorance.

No cause you see cancer by knowing it is there and experiencing the pain.

Well at least I made you laugh.

Difference is I do not say I speak for everyone, which you say you do and then say you don't when I use my simple logic.

[Finn]

socialism is about the good of the whole

You mean hole right? That bottomless money pit that supports fat, useless people and vote purchasing.

[Grahameeboy]

yes, it's very clear: you're not doing a very good job at all so the other seems most likely

In your view.........................now if you were a Mod I cannot see you being impartial??

[idleidolidyll]

You mean hole right? That bottomless money pit that supports fat, useless people and vote purchasing.

you're confusing it with capitalism

a system where fat useless people sit in their ivory castles doing fuck all but whining and sponge off workers while buying governments with secret political funding

this thread is about the mods however. if you want to bleat on about your own bullshit do it elsewhere.

so, got anything ON topic or just wanna do the usual bullshit?

[idleidolidyll]

In your view.........................now if you were a Mod I cannot see you being impartial??

given that i've been openly advocating ending the secrecy bullshit and holding mods to a higher standard it would seem your opinion is based on the fact that i've taken you to task on superstition, continuing bullshit and support of thugs and manipulators.

[idleidolidyll]

No cause you see cancer by knowing it is there and experiencing the pain.

Well at least I made you laugh.

Difference is I do not say I speak for everyone, which you say you do and then say you don't when I use my simple logic.

Oh dear, I can recommend some good remedial English classes: it seems you have some comprehension issues. I did NOT say I represented everyone at all. Obviously I don't represent sycophants who prefer sucking up to moderators to honest open freedom of speech without inane losers trying to destroy debate.

[Grahameeboy]

given that i've been openly advocating ending the secrecy bullshit and holding mods to a higher standard it would seem your opinion is based on the fact that i've taken you to task on superstition, continuing bullshit and support of thugs and manipulators.

Nop, it has not been a task but I actually wonder who the real thugs are??

[Grahameeboy]

Oh dear, I can recommend some good remedial English classes: it seems you have some comprehension issues. I did NOT say I represented everyone at all. Obviously I don't represent sycophants who prefer sucking up to moderators to honest open freedom of speech without inane losers trying to destroy debate.

I am from London so don't expect me to understand English??

But you said 'We do' then changed it to 'I'..........

If you want to call me a sycophant that is fine............I do not suck upto the Mod's, I get infracted.........I have made honest open speech.......debate is debate and whilst my intent is not to destroy the debate, I do wish that we just moved on.

The bottom line is that unless I agree with you I am considered inane so again, if you were a Mod then you may be open, rather than secret, but the end result will be the same, you will consider that a member whom speaks out against you is inane which is what you appear to be complaining about when it comes to the Mod's.

[Finn]

so, got anything ON topic or just wanna do the usual bullshit?

Here you go, two birds with one stone... Mods & Capitalism...

$500 cash to the Mod who infracts Idle into next year.

[scumdog]

In your view.........................now if you were a Mod I cannot see you being impartial??

Mwahahahah! idleX3 and Ixion as mods...mwahahahahahahahha:lol::laugh::killingme: :rofl: KB as WE see it should be...:lol::rofl::whistle:

[Katman]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1302900&postcount=441


Fuck me, that was riveting. Just as well my autism enables me to speed read entire pages in 0.25 of a second.:wacko:

On the subject of infraction points, can anyone beat my 114?:msn-wink:

[idleidolidyll]

I am from London so don't expect me to understand English??

I've lived in Britain 3 times and married a POME; coming from London says nothing about your ability to understand the language (I worked in Milwall BTW)

But you said 'We do' then changed it to 'I'..........

Yes, I also have opinions and these often coincide with those of other people and sometimes clash. So what?

If you want to call me a sycophant that is fine............I do not suck upto the Mod's, I get infracted.........I have made honest open speech.......debate is debate and whilst my intent is not to destroy the debate, I do wish that we just moved on.

So stop posting then and move on. I'm less than impressed so far.

The bottom line is that unless I agree with you I am considered inane

Nope, if you post inane junk THEN I might consider you inane. Like the stuff about not speaking out when you see something wrong. Would you ring the cops if your neighbour was being raped or sit on yer arse and do nothing? It's the same thing. The REASON London was such a fuck up for so long was that too many people were afraid to tell the cops what was happening. If the issue is not raised, it will never be fixed.

so again, if you were a Mod then you may be open, rather than secret, but the end result will be the same, you will consider that a member whom speaks out against you is inane which is what you appear to be complaining about when it comes to the Mod's.

Nope; I would consider each post as those who debate with me have discovered. I will argue against them one issue and support them on others. I don't give a damn WHO the member is, only what they post.
You're pulling these opinions about me out of a dark hole and they smell like shit.

[idleidolidyll]

Mwahahahah! idleX3 and Ixion as mods...mwahahahahahahahha:lol::laugh::killingme:ro fl: KB as WE see it should be...:lol::rofl::whistle:

No thanks, I've done jury service too many times and done my stint organising NZ motorcyclists. I'm here to discuss, debate and inform not to play childish games like many who respond to me.

[Blackbird]

It would be really nice if I3 and G'boy would both shut up as there is no relevance to the thread. Go back to school if you want to slag each other off, you daft pair.

[idleidolidyll]

It would be really nice if I3 and G'boy would both shut up as there is no relevance to the threat. Go back to school if you want to slag each other off, you daft pair.

what threat?

BTW: if you don't wish to read our posts, ignore us.

nobody is twisting your arm

but since you're here; got anything on the thread subject to add?

[Ixion]

Basically, if the mods are not doing an effective or impartial job, it would be better that they did absolutely nothing at all and just let the shit fights go on.

What would happen is that most members would put the worst offenders on ignore after pointing out what tossers they are.

I prefer a different approach: Truly IMPARTIAL moderators who do a VISIBLE and job of keeping the board civil. I prefer NOT to censor any persons post as even the most ignorant abusers occasionally post something worth reading.

'Twas for these and other reasons that Mr Q.Evil adopted a different system. He has obtained an Antiquated Invigilator. I know not where from (Ebay probably, it's amazing what you find there), but he has obtained one.

It is several hundred years old, takes no part at all in debate or posting, but simply monitors posts for adherence to a limited set of simple rules.

It seems to work quite well, so long as members do not make posts containing obscure foreign words in even more obscure languages which may or may not be obscene . That confuses it.

[idleidolidyll]

clap clap for him

strangely though i've seen him here more than there

i see DMNTD and BigBossMan have a new forum too. More power to them.

[scumdog]

clap clap for him

strangely though i've seen him here more than there

i see DMNTD and BigBossMan have a new forum too. More power to them.

Are you distributing annoyance on THIER sites too??

[scumdog]

No thanks, I've done jury service too many times and done my stint organising NZ motorcyclists. I'm here to discuss, debate and inform not to play childish games like many who respond to me.

And besides, poking the borax is waayyy more fun than helping to improve a situation eh!:Pokey:

[idleidolidyll]

Are you distributing annoyance on THIER sites too??

No,

I'm distributing sense and valid opinions....................

I registered for quasis site but it's just too slow. I've looked at DMNTD's but haven't registered.............yet!

[idleidolidyll]

And besides, poking the borax is waayyy more fun than helping to improve a situation eh!:Pokey:

Strangely I've posted a number of observations that might improve the situation if the board gods took this all seriously.

I'll leave the bullshit to those without the nouse to post rational thought.

So, ya got anything to offer?

[MSTRS]

Are you distributing annoyance on THIER sites too??


And besides, poking the borax is waayyy more fun than helping to improve a situation eh!:Pokey:

You'd've come across a few who don't know when to shut up, in your other job. How do you choose between the quietroom and the long baton??

[scumdog]

No,

I'm distributing sense and valid opinions....................

'I'm distributing sense and valid opinions...according to ME, what I think should be happeningas seen through MY eyes and it's MY way or the highway baby....'

There, see, I finished your sentence for you.:niceone:

[scumdog]

You'd've come across a few who don't know when to shut up, in your other job. How do you choose between the quietroom and the long baton??

Oh, it's just about always the quiet room - then it's the judges room and a really nasty story for the judge to hear.

There's more than one way to skin a mouthy shit-head.

[idleidolidyll]

'I'm distributing sense and valid opinions...according to ME, what I think should be happeningas seen through MY eyes and it's MY way or the highway baby....'

There, see, I finished your sentence for you.:niceone:

Perhaps so but instead of debating what I actually offer I note that you merely attack the messenger.

Pray tell, exactly what was wrong with my opinion and what is YOUR opinion on the subject of the thread?

[scumdog]

Perhaps so but instead of debating what I actually offer I note that you merely attack the messenger.

Pray tell, exactly what was wrong with my opinion and what is YOUR opinion on the subject of the thread?

Oh, nothing wrong with anybody having an opinion - it's just that when it gets rammed down peoples throats with both hands that it gets a tad annoying..

My opinion of this thread? - it's like a place I visit to see who the annoying people are who want to voice opinions on how a site should be run and how those in charge are ruining the site for everybody (OK, for THEM to be precise)

But at the end of the day all on this thread (myself included) are just 'yelling to hear our head roar', - achieving nothing.

[idleidolidyll]

Oh, nothing wrong with anybody having an opinion - it's just that when it gets rammed down peoples throats with both hands that it gets a tad annoying..

My opinion of this thread? - it's like a place I visit to see who the annoying people are who want to voice opinions on how a site should be run and how those in charge are ruining the site for everybody (OK, for THEM to be precise)

But at the end of the day all on this thread (myself included) are just 'yelling to hear our head roar', - achieving nothing.

nobody rammed it down anyones throat; you CHOSE to read it yourself.

but i have to ask: if you don't have any actual opinion re the subject at hand, why are you even here?

WHO was shit stirring again?

[scumdog]

nobody rammed it down anyones throat; you CHOSE to read it yourself.

but i have to ask: if you don't have any actual opinion re the subject at hand, why are you even here?

WHO was shit stirring again?

I thought post #149 DID explain my opinion??

But to enhance it: I'm here 'cos it's a place asking for bored trolls to visit.

Anyway, off to do an oil/filter change on CBs bike, later ladies...

[idleidolidyll]

I thought post #149 DID explain my opinion??

But to enhance it: I'm here 'cos it's a place asking for bored trolls to visit.

Anyway, off to do an oil/filter change on CBs bike, later ladies...

nah, you returned because you were trolling for me so you could shit stir. That seems pretty obvious given the lack of topicality of your recent posts.

Please, prove me wrong; post something on topic in response to my posts instead of these personal attacks.

[Grahameeboy]

I have lived in Britain 3 times and married a POME; coming from London says nothing about your ability to understand the language (I worked in Milwall BTW)

I was just joking. You take things too seriously.


Yes, I also have opinions and these often coincide with those of other people and sometimes clash. So what?

You have no answered the point I made?

If you want to call me a sycophant that is fine............I do not suck upto the Mod's, I get infracted.........I have made honest open speech.......debate is debate and whilst my intent is not to destroy the debate, I do wish that we just moved on.

So stop posting then and move on. I'm less than impressed so far.

I am simply replying to you........nothing to do with not moving on?


The bottom line is that unless I agree with you I am considered inane

Nope, if you post inane junk THEN I might consider you inane. Like the stuff about not speaking out when you see something wrong. Would you ring the cops if your neighbour was being raped or sit on yer arse and do nothing? It's the same thing. The REASON London was such a fuck up for so long was that too many people were afraid to tell the cops what was happening. If the issue is not raised, it will never be fixed.

Speaking out on an internet forum is a lot different to not helping a rape victim..........I would not bother calling the cops I would go round there and help her..............I once helped a black guy in London being beaten up by 3 louts and sorted them out............I could have walked by but I thought, hey this is not an internet forum it is the real world...........


Nope; I would consider each post as those who debate with me have discovered. I will argue against them one issue and support them on others. I don't give a damn WHO the member is, only what they post.
You're pulling these opinions about me out of a dark hole and they smell like shit.

What opinions??

__________________

[Grahameeboy]

It would be really nice if I3 and G'boy would both shut up as there is no relevance to the threat. Go back to school if you want to slag each other off, you daft pair.

I thought I was being polite..........I agree though that it is going off topic a wee bit but in some inane way it is related to the negatives aimed at the Mods

[Morcs]

As good a job as the mods are doing,

why do we need any?

Ive never liked threads being deleted for this that and the other.

If you have a thread go off topic, so what.
If you have an argument, so what.

Even the abuse side of things - an 'abuse thread' will always have for and against, and we all grownups who can either take the criticism, or not read it.

This is only the internet.

Bring back WINJA!

[idleidolidyll]

As good a job as the mods are doing,

why do we need any?

Ive never liked threads being deleted for this that and the other.

If you have a thread go off topic, so what.
If you have an argument, so what.

Even the abuse side of things - an 'abuse thread' will always have for and against, and we all grownups who can either take the criticism, or not read it.

This is only the internet.

Bring back WINJA!

yep, you either do it right or don't do it at all; bling for you

[idleidolidyll]

graham; i'm not interested in going around in circles

that's all been done before

I must say that since I mentioned it here, a senior mod HAS got back to me about the threats of a moderator against me. It seems they HAVE done something but there remains more to be done.

None of you will ever see that justice though; the secret squirrel still holds court.....................

[yungatart]

blah, blah, blah.........

yes, you do become a bore after a while


So you speak for all do you.......................

Why don't you two just get a room????

[Blackbird]

Why don't you two just get a room????

No sweat, they're a good example of people who try not only the mods patience, but members in general.
always pays to have a live example for the first post I made in the thread:laugh:

[Grahameeboy]

Why don't you two just get a room????

Sorry.....have stopped.

[Conquiztador]

At my work we have a clear set of policies and procedures. They may not be perfect and some of them with time needs changing, deleting or adding to.

We also have a policy on how to change a policy. You follow the steps and if you have a valid point then there will be a change.

But until such time that any of the policies has been altered in any way they stand. There just could be no other way. If there ever is any confusion the only thing the staff need to do is refer to the current policy. End of story.

This site has rules that you agree on when you sign up. You do not like a particular rule you contact the person/s in charge. If he/they agree with your point of view it will be changed. But until then...

[Hitcher]

Moderators also have "policies and procedures". They're called site rules. You'll find them as sticky threads in the "Site Stuff" forum.

Moderators discuss a lot of stuff "in secret", mostly to respect the privacy of individuals and the issues they raise. If members want to blab and shit-stir by promulgating half truths, fallacies and lies, Moderators are often caught in an invidious position. The "sacking" of Frosty is a recent case in point.

There are a lot of extremely shallow and fragile people who contribute to Kiwi Biker. It is not a Moderator's job to mother them and make the bogeyman go away. But such members are entitled to have privacy respected around issues they raise.

And while the current crop of Moderators may be imperfect, that comes with the territory of being human and having to deal equitably with people you know and like and those at the other extreme.

A sign of the immaturity that at times abounds on Kiwi Biker would be if the Moderators asked for constructive nominations from members as to whom would make good Moderators. I am almost certain that within the first 10 posts such a thread would have degenerated into a flame war and be rightly relegated to Pointless Drivel.

[Grahameeboy]

Moderators also have "policies and procedures". They're called site rules. You'll find them as sticky threads in the "Site Stuff" forum.

Moderators discuss a lot of stuff "in secret", mostly to respect the privacy of individuals and the issues they raise. If members want to blab and shit-stir by promulgating half truths, fallacies and lies, Moderators are often caught in an invidious position. The "sacking" of Frosty is a recent case in point.

There are a lot of extremely shallow and fragile people who contribute to Kiwi Biker. It is not a Moderator's job to mother them and make the bogeyman go away. But such members are entitled to have privacy respected around issues they raise.

And while the current crop of Moderators may be imperfect, that comes with the territory of being human and having to deal equitably with people you know and like and those at the other extreme.

A sign of the immaturity that at times abounds on Kiwi Biker would be if the Moderators asked for constructive nominations from members as to whom would make good Moderators. I am almost certain that within the first 10 posts such a thread would have degenerated into a flame war and be rightly relegated to Pointless Drivel.

Good post Mr H......................:2thumbsup

[idleidolidyll]

Moderators also have "policies and procedures". They're called site rules. You'll find them as sticky threads in the "Site Stuff" forum.

Moderators discuss a lot of stuff "in secret", mostly to respect the privacy of individuals and the issues they raise. If members want to blab and shit-stir by promulgating half truths, fallacies and lies, Moderators are often caught in an invidious position. The "sacking" of Frosty is a recent case in point.

There are a lot of extremely shallow and fragile people who contribute to Kiwi Biker. It is not a Moderator's job to mother them and make the bogeyman go away. But such members are entitled to have privacy respected around issues they raise.

And while the current crop of Moderators may be imperfect, that comes with the territory of being human and having to deal equitably with people you know and like and those at the other extreme.

A sign of the immaturity that at times abounds on Kiwi Biker would be if the Moderators asked for constructive nominations from members as to whom would make good Moderators. I am almost certain that within the first 10 posts such a thread would have degenerated into a flame war and be rightly relegated to Pointless Drivel.

However, the fact that it IS all done in secret DOES inflame the situation as those reported continue to post as if they had not been warned.

The system is broken and secrecy is rubbish. I don't ask to be secretly chastised and I'd be happy to have this done in public where other members can see that the moderators ARE doing their job.

As long as the secrecy continues, the flaming and inflamation will continue.

[Conquiztador]

However, the fact that it IS all done in secret DOES inflame the situation as those reported continue to post as if they had not been warned.

The system is broken and secrecy is rubbish. I don't ask to be secretly chastised and I'd be happy to have this done in public where other members can see that the moderators ARE doing their job.

As long as the secrecy continues, the flaming and inflamation will continue.

Right, so what you are requesting is a thread where only moderators can post, where they would post stuff like:

idleidolidyll, infraction 4 points for BS, expires Xmas 2012

You really think this is a good idea...

[idleidolidyll]

Right, so what you are requesting is a thread where only moderators can post, where they would post stuff like:

idleidolidyll, infraction 4 points for BS, expires Xmas 2012

You really think this is a good idea...

Nope.

I'd rather see it posted in the thread where the abuse appeared so that those reading could SEE justice being done and KNOW the mods were doing their job impartially and conscientiously.

as my own recent experience shows, that is currently doubtable DUE to the secrecy

[Mom]

No thanks, I've done jury service too many times and done my stint organising NZ motorcyclists. I'm here to discuss, debate and inform not to play childish games like many who respond to me.

But I like being childish sometimes......I think you may still be attempting and failing miserably in organising motorcyclists, at least the ones that frequent this forum, we cant be "organised" to your way of thinking no matter how hard you bang your head.........LOL



Are you distributing annoyance on THIER sites too??

Hope he tries to! Would be good if he let us know when he does start posting his tried and true opinions on one of them, I would love to be a fly on the wall, as I dont hold membership, should be worth a giggle!


Sorry.....have stopped.


Good post Mr H......................:2thumbsup

You have not! :bleh:

[idleidolidyll]

But I like being childish sometimes......I think you may still be attempting and failing miserably in organising motorcyclists, at least the ones that frequent this forum, we cant be "organised" to your way of thinking no matter how hard you bang your head.........LOL

as i said, i've done my bit and that's enough.
i'm not here to do the organising but that doesn't mean i'm gonna stop making suggestions
your 'we' obviously excludes all those who have added those thousands of points to my id with pm's encouraging my outing of lame arguments and idiots.

Hope he tries to! Would be good if he let us know when he does start posting his tried and true opinions on one of them, I would love to be a fly on the wall, as I dont hold membership, should be worth a giggle!



what, you think it'd worry me one iota?
rotflmfao!

[Grahameeboy]

But I like being childish sometimes......I think you may still be attempting and failing miserably in organising motorcyclists, at least the ones that frequent this forum, we cant be "organised" to your way of thinking no matter how hard you bang your head.........LOL




Hope he tries to! Would be good if he let us know when he does start posting his tried and true opinions on one of them, I would love to be a fly on the wall, as I dont hold membership, should be worth a look


You have not! :bleh:

Oh Mom................I promise I will