Dodgy Advertising

[manuboy]

I know there's been quite a few threads about speed related issues here lately, so i'm interested to know what people think of the new Holden ad (with the alloy motor).

On one side of the coin we have the proliferation of LTSA safety ads, on the other side, recent vehicle ads seem to be targetting the performance of their vehicles.

This ad shows Dad on a country road giving it herbs to this thing, dunno how quick he'd be going in actuality, but it's heavily implied he's goin some...he's left the speed limit and headed for instant loss territory, and the camera pans to show a small kid in the back seat getting the same buzz as Dad. WTF? Even my partner thought that was goin too far!

Whats the message? Buy this, get out there, give it heaps, and show junior how to have fun? wow......

Contrast this to the only bike ad i think i've ever seen apart from the XT250 ad from 1980 something, the R1 campaign - which is styley but doesn't feature any dodgy antics....

Standard Dislaimer: i speed sometimes........

[James Deuce]

Cars are safe and family men are safer still. Yeah Right.

Quite frankly my wife is a better driver than me. I can give it some on the bike and if I screw up I probably won't kill my kids. I know the ad you mean and I did have a "wtf" moment when watching it. I'd love to see the LTSA reaction to a bike ad with an R1 being wheelied at 180km.hr for 5 kms.

[Eddieb]

I saw that ad and thought the same thing, just waiting for it to hit the news.

[Ms Piggy]

We had a discussion about that advert at out flat actually, we were all saying sarcastically that he was quite obviously only going 100km/hr b/c speeding is against the law and he had his kiddie in the back and if he was speeding (which eh couldn't have been) he was prepared to kill himself and his kid. <_<

Both the motorcycle adverts I've seen have no speeding or crazy riding antics. The R1 advert and the other one that's kinda poetic - Yahmaha I think. ???

[Marmoot]

but isn't complaining about ads a "political correctness" that some of us KBers regards as heresy?

:shifty:

[AMPS]

The ads are usually Aussie, they're not infected with the PC virus to the extent of NZ'ers. That's why you get scantily clad brollie dollies handing out flyers in the centre of Melbourne. (drooool)
Lou

[manuboy]

but isn't complaining about ads a "political correctness" that some of us KBers regards as heresy?

:shifty:

Good point - but i wasn't compaining about the ad as such (well, yeah i was ...). The thing is we get it drummed into us (and rightly so) that we have to obey speeding laws at all times, the LTSA spends millions on their ads, then straight after they play a guy takes his kid for a high speed spin...

AMPS post probably covers it really... maybe the Aussies dont' have the same attitude towards depicting poeple nailing it down their highways...

[Hitcher]

My first reaction to this Holden advertisement was exactly the same. I now take some comfort in that...

[Marmoot]

maybe the Aussies dont' have the same attitude towards depicting poeple nailing it down their highways...

But oh I think it's the contrary. Aussies sound much worse than us, and I believe our government gets the ideas from our transtasman Victorian brothers. Remember, you get instant loss of license for 30kph over.

But yeah I myself have the same thoughts when I see those ads of Holdens and Fords.......hypocrissy at its best, eh?
(hypochrisy? hyphocrisie?......spankme, can we have spellingchecker built into forum posting page?)

[Blakamin]

AMPS post probably covers it really... maybe the Aussies dont' have the same attitude towards depicting poeple nailing it down their highways...
1kph over the limit and your done... no discretion...

first time i saw it i thought "typical holden driver, can only show off to kids"

[AMPS]

I don't know about the 1 km/h over, but it didn't seem to worry them when I was there. 10 - 15 km/h over was common. Very few cops in the 'burbs.

[StoneChucker]

How can a Yamaha add be anything other than poetic :love: ?

[Blakamin]

I don't know about the 1 km/h over, but it didn't seem to worry them when I was there. 10 - 15 km/h over was common. Very few cops in the 'burbs.
actually i think its 2k in Vic... Like here tho, its all fine until you get caught!

[Mongoose]

1kph over the limit and your done... no discretion...

first time i saw it i thought "typical holden driver, can only show off to kids"

Didn't take long for a disgruntled Ford owner to pop up :thud:

[Kickaha]

But oh I think it's the contrary. Aussies sound much worse than us, and I believe our government gets the ideas from our transtasman Victorian brothers. Remember, you get instant loss of license for 30kph over.



Northern Territory didn't used to have a limit,but you could still be stopped if the cops thought you were driving dangerously and could prove the charge

[Marmoot]

Northern Territory didn't used to have a limit,but you could still be stopped if the cops thought you were driving dangerously and could prove the charge
oh yeah....and we used to not have the highway patrol and much less cops on the road....

ah, the good ol'days

[Posh Tourer :P]

The problem is not the speeding in the ad itself, but the BLATANT double standard where the government refuses to regulate against powerful carmakers in a horsepower war (did anyone say ford and holden???) but at the same time rams dopwn our throats that while we are encouraged to buy these bloated straightline speed machines for just that, we are not allowed to use them - even though they easily reach 100kmh in first gear, and can get to licence losing speeds in second no sweat.

Yes I do see a similarity with the R1/CBR1000/Blackbird/Hayabusa, and my case is the same for these, apart from the fact that they arent advertised quite so blatantly on speed...

[manuboy]

The problem is not the speeding in the ad itself, but the BLATANT double standard where the government refuses to regulate against powerful carmakers in a horsepower war (did anyone say ford and holden???) but at the same time rams dopwn our throats that while we are encouraged to buy these bloated straightline speed machines for just that, we are not allowed to use them - even though they easily reach 100kmh in first gear, and can get to licence losing speeds in second no sweat.

Yes I do see a similarity with the R1/CBR1000/Blackbird/Hayabusa, and my case is the same for these, apart from the fact that they arent advertised quite so blatantly on speed...

Yup, thats what i was tryin to get at PT. On one hand we have speed limits which exists mainly for safety reasons. On the other had, we have a class of vehicles (all of those you mentioned) which are marketed purely on a performance basis. And those two don't mesh.

I dislike the ad because it goes as far as saying that doin what he's doin is so acceptable that you may as well bring the family along, the more the merrier! Teach the kids to disregard their own saftey basically.

As as aside, if the government came out this arvo and said righto lads, any and all vehicles with X Kw or more, or with a weight / power ratio greater than Y are now illegal, i'd be almost the first man in the indignant howling cue.... so i guess it's just that ad that irks me.....

[Posh Tourer :P]

As as aside, if the government came out this arvo and said righto lads, any and all vehicles with X Kw or more, or with a weight / power ratio greater than Y are now illegal, i'd be almost the first man in the indignant howling cue.... so i guess it's just that ad that irks me.....

Yah its a tricky issue huh.

Still, quite a few carmakers regulate on horsepower "voluntarily" in other countries/markets, so why not something similar? Perhaps a graded rego scheme/special exemptions needed etc.

Having said that, I thought the japanese carmakers had an agreement at XYZ kilowatts, and then Subaru bought out a model with about 40kw more than the limit! So maybe voluntary just dont work..... :spudwhat:

Govt regs/ guidelines would probably be a good idea, with an exemption scheme of sorts that isnt TOO dificult to get, just a discouragement.

The issue would be to limit the output at something high enough that it didnt exclude lots of family/everyday cars, but low enough to be effective and sensible....

[spudchucka]

The problem is not the speeding in the ad itself, but the BLATANT double standard where the government refuses to regulate against powerful carmakers in a horsepower war (did anyone say ford and holden???) but at the same time rams dopwn our throats that while we are encouraged to buy these bloated straightline speed machines for just that, we are not allowed to use them - even though they easily reach 100kmh in first gear, and can get to licence losing speeds in second no sweat.

Yes I do see a similarity with the R1/CBR1000/Blackbird/Hayabusa, and my case is the same for these, apart from the fact that they arent advertised quite so blatantly on speed...
How can the Govt be held responsible for corporate advertising? If they regulated more than now they would be accussed of social engineering, breaching rights to freedom of speech etc etc. There is the broadcasting standards authority to manage innappropriate advertising.

You seem to be implying that the Govt somehow encourages this advertising and is harbouring a desire for people to purchase these vehicles and that this is contradictory to Govt / LTSA anti speeding adverstising.

Sorry if I'm missunderstanding your post but I don't see the connection between Holden / Ford advertising and the Govt.

[Jackrat]

Holdon & Fraud,ever notice how the things we lest need are the things that get the most advertising,or how outlandish some of that advertising is.
In todays world who would buy one of these things without a healthy dose of BS to push their wagon.Hell without the advertising neither Holdon nor fraud would stand a chance against the likes of Nissan,Subaru ect ect.
Hell they even have their own race,can't let anybody else in coz' they'd show us up with half the cubes.
They'll start selling undies an tee shirts next,,,,, :Oops:

[Posh Tourer :P]

How can the Govt be held responsible for corporate advertising? If they regulated more than now they would be accussed of social engineering, breaching rights to freedom of speech etc etc. There is the broadcasting standards authority to manage innappropriate advertising.

You seem to be implying that the Govt somehow encourages this advertising and is harbouring a desire for people to purchase these vehicles and that this is contradictory to Govt / LTSA anti speeding adverstising.

Sorry if I'm missunderstanding your post but I don't see the connection between Holden / Ford advertising and the Govt.

Hang on, I didnt say that the govt was responsible for corporate advertising - except that they *may* be able to get TVNZ to pull some ads....
My point there is that the govt refuses to regulate against fast cars, but tells us not to speed. The advertising is a realisation of the fact that the selling point of these cars is the flat out power. If the government then regulated against highly powerful vehicles, there wouldnt be the advertising based on speed because carmakers would have to find some other selling point. We already have import controls on used Japanese Imports - thats social engineering too....

So the dichotomy here is that while speed is bad, we are still able to buy cars designed and built for 300kmh, speeds that are hardly ever safe on the roads of NZ. There are plenty of other cars that are comfortable at 150kmh, without the insane amount of needless power of these ones.Yes it would be social engineering, but so is a graduated tax system and the welfare state.

The dichotomy is *not* between the mixed advertising messages, as they come from different agencies.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Holdon & Fraud,ever notice how the things we lest need are the things that get the most advertising,or how outlandish some of that advertising is.
In todays world who would buy one of these things without a healthy dose of BS to push their wagon.Hell without the advertising neither Holdon nor fraud would stand a chance against the likes of Nissan,Subaru ect ect.
Hell they even have their own race,can't let anybody else in coz' they'd show us up with half the cubes.
They'll start selling undies an tee shirts next,,,,, :Oops:

Well, yes - makes sense. The more unpractical an item is, the more it needs advertising to create an aura around it to get you to buy it "because its cool" or "to keep up with the Joneses". Advertising is an art form that has distorted the way the economy functions. Supply and demand - but manipulate demand or even create it for something that really isnt useful/practical

[Indiana_Jones]

We have motorcycle ad's on TV here? :gob:

-Indy

[DarkNinja]

Yeah apparently they been on while the Gp is on on prime. i watch it sumtimes on channel one coz we dont get prime but i dont see em.
I hate the ad, i think mazda got done a while ago for the 'zoom zoom' ads, may have been a diff country though.
I dont like any ford/holden ads or the car for that sake because with it comes a giant car and a person that doesnt want to go anywhere near the left hand white line in fear of falling off of grass hitting their ugly coloured petrol guzzler and cuts the corner on us :disapint:
Actually there are 3 types of car in the V8s, theres a Audi Safety car which looks more funky than the actual racers.
DN

[manuboy]

I've never considered utlilising our ability to complain about the advertising i see. Mostly because i'm not that proactive and i'm not sure if my riding is 100% safe all the time and i hate hypocrates. Aside from that, i thought only grannies and lonely old spinsters ever did it - but if i was going to, it'd be that ad.

Unfortunately, i think i'd lose. Cos that ad is the same as the (ford?) ad that advertises the sequential shift... every effort is made to convey effortless power and acceleration, but you cannnot determine the speed itself. That ad is nowhere near as bad i reckon... cos there is no kid in the back seat.

I say again, the R1 (which could clean those cars easily in every category you care to mention apart from ability to collect groceries or tow a trailer) ad is so much better. More art less fart.

[spudchucka]

Hang on, I didnt say that the govt was responsible for corporate advertising - except that they *may* be able to get TVNZ to pull some ads....
My point there is that the govt refuses to regulate against fast cars, but tells us not to speed. The advertising is a realisation of the fact that the selling point of these cars is the flat out power. If the government then regulated against highly powerful vehicles, there wouldnt be the advertising based on speed because carmakers would have to find some other selling point. We already have import controls on used Japanese Imports - thats social engineering too....

So the dichotomy here is that while speed is bad, we are still able to buy cars designed and built for 300kmh, speeds that are hardly ever safe on the roads of NZ. There are plenty of other cars that are comfortable at 150kmh, without the insane amount of needless power of these ones.Yes it would be social engineering, but so is a graduated tax system and the welfare state.

The dichotomy is *not* between the mixed advertising messages, as they come from different agencies.
I don't see it as the Govts role to regulate advertising, they have agencies to do that.

What level of Govt interference are people prepared to put up with? Banning fast or powerfull cars and bikes because the existance of such things is contrary to Govt promoted safe driving practices is a very high level of interference.

[Blakamin]

We have motorcycle ad's on TV here? :gob:

-Indy
motomart advertise ducati,ktm and mv augusta during monster gargre every week... the advertising worked... i bought one off them!

[merv]

The question is though has the ad made anyone here rush off and buy a Holden and drive it like a flamin idiot? I doubt it and the negative reactions above show you are turned off by it so probably went out and bought a Honda, Subaru, Toyota or whatever if you were in the car market (and they are probably all quicker anyway). So where's the harm?

Personally I have no issue with it at all, another ad which adds to the time I have to get up and make the coffee.

Me, I can't understand how anyone can buy a Holden or Ford anyway and I'll tell you why so you understand my opinion.

The last 3 weeks I have been travelling on the job and using Hertz rentals. Arrive at the Hertz desk the first week and the guy says we've given you an upgrade - turns out to be a new XR6. Now what was wrong with it? Can't complain about the power, but anyone used to driving a decent car is immediately put off by the lack of footwell space with nowhere for your left foot to sit comfortably because of the bloody great transmission hump. Then the steering wheel, fancy 4 spoke thing, but not shaped right at all - they put the spokes to suit all the controls built into I think - cruise, stereo etc, but it didn't suit driving, you couldn't hold the wheel at the old 10 to 2 position, so you ended up holding it uncomfortably up too high, or if you went lower the wheel was really too close for comfort. Then the seats - the front passenger seat was so low to the floor and shaped rather funny it was ridiculous. The drivers seat was slightly better with more adjustment, but put the car on cruise control and sitting so low your right foot didn't feel comfortable sitting anywhere. Then the cruise control itself - its the first car I've ever driven that won't maintain speed on slight grades with the cruise on - as it hit a hill it just slowed down - not sure if it would have ground to a hault if we hadn't put the boot back into it. As for the boot, what an interrupted shape with big lumps down the sides for no apparent reason as if it needed large beams for the chassis there or something so there wasn't much space in it. How's my ad going so far?

Following week - same deal, guy says we'll upgrade you (he means from mid-size car we booked) and this time get a Holden Acclaim - cheapie model. Well shit I'm a short arse and again the whole seat, pedal relationship thing was crap with only slightly better footwell space. My mate traveliing with me is tall and the car didn't fit him either. The throttle had to be pushed so far in relation to the brake pedal location that it was ridiculous. The steering wheel sticks out from the dash way too far (no in/out adjustment to compensate) and you get sore arms from bending your elbows too much. At least the cruise worked OK on the Holden. However, on that cheapie model I set the heating/ac rotary control on screen/foot combo. Then end up behind a smelly diesel truck and look where the hell is the recirc control? Couldn't find it, so my mate looks it up in the manual in the glovebox. Oh, its on the rotary control too, but when you had it set where I did the wee sign thingy was covered by the back of the knob, but then how ridiculous, if you want recirc for a moment you have to spin the rotary dial off your setting to some other point - absolute crap controls. Handling of the car wasn't flash the Ford felt better in that regard.

Then the third week, no mention of "upgrades" and by then we had decided we would turn it down if offered. This time we get a Diamante - basic model - but hey everything fitted us - remember my mate's tall close to 6' and I'm about 6'' shorter. I'm no real fan of Mitsi but that car went well - good controls, plenty of footwell space, good handling, cruise worked well etc etc, boot is nice flat spacious shape.

I can only assume that those that buy the Aussie tanks are either sucked in by the hype of the closed racing class or have never driven a well designed car in their life and are used to fitting these things.

That's my view and its like a counter ad eh!!

[Storm]

While I agree with the point that some ads glamorise speeding etc, at the end of the day, it is the person behind the wheel who makes the decision on how hard to put the foot down, not the car itself (at least, not yet !).
Example - My old 1982 fold laser 1300 was capable of 140, so therefore it was a machine capable of dangerous and life endangering performance. Do we want the govt fitting speed cutouts on our machine, be they two or four wheeled, or should we all just buck up our ideas and behave in a responsible manner?