Har har!

[Chrislost]

i shouldnt laugh, however it came as a timley reminder coming up to summer...

as i was traveling up old north road today i came across 3 bikers who were sitting awaiting the arival of mates to drive their bikes home for them.
came to the usual place and found the same guy that took my licence last year sitting in his nice flashy work car.

:buggerd:

[Skyryder]

i shouldnt laugh, however it came as a timley reminder coming up to summer...

as i was traveling up old north road today i came across 3 bikers who were sitting awaiting the arival of mates to drive their bikes home for them.
came to the usual place and found the same guy that took my licence last year sitting in his nice flashy work car.

:buggerd:

There was a time if you were stranded on the side of the road the cops would help. Now they leave you there. In those days the cops had some real respect.

I can't why the law could not be amended to give you time to get home. Something along the lines that you have twentyfour hours to hand in your licence. Failure to do so would result in a further charge. This way no one is stranded and the effect is exactly the same.

I tried pushing this when the law was amened a year or so back. No one was interested.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

More pertinently, on what grounds can roadside suspension be justified at all ?

One of the central tenets of our legal system is that everyone is entitled to a fair trial BEFORE being punsihed.

So, since roadside suspension deprives the victim of that right , it can only be justified where leaving the person on the road is likely to endanger the public in the period between the alleged offence, and (possible) conviction.

So, I can see a case for recidivist drink drivers. If they've been caught yet again, it maybe makes sense to assume that they are alcoholics , and if left licensed will be out the road again tomorrow. The argument is still tenuous, because of cause the alleged offender could be found not guilty. But he's still been punished! But, where there is a HISTORY of serious offending, I think one can argue that the perpetrator has, as part of his previous punishment, forfeited the right to the presumption of innocence when detected under similar circumstances.

What is unsupportable is suspension simply for exceeding a speed limit (The matter might be argued differently if the alleged speedster had previous disqualification convictions) .

The injustice being, that a speeding charge is not always correct. Cops sometimes get the wrong vehicle ("well, someone was speeding, and you're on a motorbike, so it must have been you"). Cops have been known to get the speed limit wrong. Or to ticket for exceeding a tempory speed limit that is not in effect. So it is quite possible that the alleged speedster is ultimately found not guilty. But, he has already been punished! Perhaps, very harshly, since he may have lost his job as a result.

And, 140kph does not attract a dangerous driving charge (usually). Nor is there any reason to suppose (in the absence of a history of offending) that the person is any more likely to speed dangerously tomorrow, than any other road user.

This is a crusade that I intend to try to get BRONZ to take up next year. I do not expect to win, but it is wrong and unjust, and should be objected to.

[James Deuce]

More pertinently, on what grounds can roadside suspension be justified at all ?

One of the central tenets of our legal system is that everyone is entitled to a fair trial BEFORE being punsihed.

So, since roadside suspension deprives the victim of that right , it can only be justified where leaving the person on the road is likely to endanger the public in the period between the alleged offence, and (possible) conviction.


The majority of Kiwis don't care and you won't be able to make them until Indonesia invades, enslaves all Kiwi citizens (irrespective of your ethnic grouping - we all look the same to them) for a minimum of a decade and kills 100s of 1000s of us. Then Kiwis might understand the fallacy that underlines their only political opinion: If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

[Skyryder]

The majority of Kiwis don't care and you won't be able to make them until Indonesia invades, enslaves all Kiwi citizens (irrespective of your ethnic grouping - we all look the same to them) for a minimum of a decade and kills 100s of 1000s of us. Then Kiwis might understand the fallacy that underlines their only political opinion: If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

I could not have said it better. Complete indifference until one is affected.


Skyyrder

[Mom]

There was a time if you were stranded on the side of the road the cops would help. Now they leave you there. In those days the cops had some real respect.

I can't why the law could not be amended to give you time to get home. Something along the lines that you have twentyfour hours to hand in your licence. Failure to do so would result in a further charge. This way no one is stranded and the effect is exactly the same.

I tried pushing this when the law was amened a year or so back. No one was interested.

Skyryder

There are some cops out there that will allow you to ride home, and then serve the suspension, but i am picking they are few and far between.



One of the central tenets of our legal system is that everyone is entitled to a fair trial BEFORE being punsihed.


Aplogies for butchering your quote Ixion. I agree with you totally, and also with Skyriders comments above. I have been in the position where I was stopped for speeding, about 9:15pm just south of Orewa. I failed a roadside breath test, and was taken to Orewa for processing. I was ok but forbidden to drive for 12 hours.....these police officers then put me outside their station, by now after 10pm, for me to walk home to Warkworth!! a distance of 40 odd kms and my car on the side of the expressway a ready target for vandals! A lone female sent out to walk home at the hour of the night, UNBELIEVABLE!

Let me know how I can help you in your mission, I am a keen starter!

[Max Preload]

I have been in the position where I was stopped for speeding, about 9:15pm just south of Orewa. I failed a roadside breath test, and was taken to Orewa for processing. I was ok but forbidden to drive for 12 hours.....these police officers then put me outside their station, by now after 10pm, for me to walk home to Warkworth!! a distance of 40 odd kms and my car on the side of the expressway a ready target for vandals!

Not so unbelievable. Irena Asher springs to mind, but at least they called a taxi for her.

On exactly what grounds can they forbid you to drive if you pass an evidential breath test?

[ElCoyote]

I could not have said it better. Complete indifference until one is affected.


Skyyrder

Indifference got us Helen and GST

[Mom]

Not so unbelievable. Irena Asher springs to mind, but at least they called a taxi for her.

On exactly what grounds can they forbid you to drive if you pass an evidential breath test?

Cops can forbid you to drive if you are over the limit. Me I failed!.....How? I have no idea, but I did! Impossible to imagine really, anyway, a couple of questions from my lawyer and the charges were dropped. FWIW I am a HUGE supporter of zero tolerance as far as drinking and driving is concerned.

I got put out on the street, to find my own way home ( I guess if I had been pissed they would have taken me in for the night) I was just shocked, and cold and thankful that I had a brother in Auckland who came to pick me up, with his flatmate who picked up my car.

[Max Preload]

I failed a roadside breath test, and was taken to Orewa for processing. I was ok but forbidden to drive for 12 hours...

Do you mean you felt ok or cleared the evidential? I guess felt since you say the charges were dropped.


Cops can forbid you to drive if you are over the limit. Me I failed!.....How? I have no idea, but I did!


FWIW I am a HUGE supporter of zero tolerance as far as drinking and driving is concerned.

The only time I've ever failed a roadside screening is when I hadn't had any alcohol for over a week - I had to blow in the friggin' bag! Yet a few months back I had 2 can's of beer within about 2 hours at my mates place, pulled out of his driveway in the car into a checkpoint 20m up the road and went straight through the sniffer no problem. Go figure!

[steveb64]

Seems the police are moving more and more away from their role as 'law enforcement' and moving more towards a 'one stop shop' role of prosecution, judgement, and sentencing. :(
Of course - this means that legally they must be considered infallible and beyond error in all of these cases, as there is no means to appeal an officers on the spot sentencing. Guilty until proven innocent. :mad:

Who needs courts? :whistle: