Seat bag problem.... and Motormail - Comments welcome [Archive]

Zapf

29th October 2004, 17:32

Well here is my problem...

when to motormail and bought a seat bag for the waikato rally, and during the trip the 4 tie down straps and another part of the bag that hangs over the rear rubbed right thru the rear paint work.

So now I am faced with the cost of fixing up the paint or take a $200 hit when I trade my VTR250 in. Now being a self confessed newbie have only bought my 250 and got my license in Aug, 04. I really didn't know the seat bag is going to be rubbing the paint off. Motormail is refusing to refund the bag as they say it is not faulty, and says that I should have known that the seatbag was going to rub the paint off. And they had no responsibility of the bag doing that and telling that it'll do so.

So what is a fair thing to do?

Should motormail accept the seat bag to be returned, refund me the purchase price and fix up my paint work? Or are they really liable for nothing? Or somewhere in between?

Your comments are welcomed

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/gallery/albums/userpics/11374/PICT0078.jpg

- I am planning to follow this up with them with a written letter and then to small claims...

Paul in NZ

29th October 2004, 17:43

???

I'm sorry your bike got damaged but that's what happens when you use your bike....

I'm with Motomail on this one, you fucked up by not protecting your paintwork, it hurts, but thats how you learn and now, get over it!

Wadda ya gunna do ?? Sue Honda if you fall off because motorbikes are dangerous and they didn't tell you that? Sue the Govt 'cos a loose stone chipped your paint and there was no warning sign??

Harden up son. You went on a ride, it left a scar on your bike that will jog your memory about good times and good people... Accept it, it's what happens in the big old dirty world we call life... In 10 years you will look back and wonder what the fuss was all about..

Paul N

toads

29th October 2004, 17:48

sorry to hear about this Zapf, I don't have clue what motomail are liable for or otherwise, but my suspicion is the company that produced the bag in the first place are the ones to deal with, motomail are the distributors not the manufacturers, often though, on the packaging of such items, are disclaimers to cover the manufacturers and protect them from liability issues.
It would pay to find the maufacturing company on the internet, and email them with regard ot your problem, or maybe motomail could give you a phone number to contact them directly. all the best L

James Deuce

29th October 2004, 18:02

The only person at fault here is the one who didn't protect his paint work. A $4.95 roll of cloth tape would have sorted the problem.

Anything that rubs against paint is going to wear it off. I had to learn the hard way too, so take it on the chin and move on and stop trying to blame everyone for your negative learning experience.

Ms Piggy

29th October 2004, 18:09

C'mon guys - don't be so hard on a 'self confessed newbie'. Honestly, I wouldn't have thought to cover the paint work being a newbie rider myself. So I can understand Zapf's comments and questions.

Motomail are right though, the bag is not faulty. Maybe (unfortunately) you do need to just put it down to a lesson learnt. Sucks I know. :(

Edit: Toads idea is the best one yet. Give it a go, can't hurt.

Zapf

29th October 2004, 18:14

if they only told me / suggested that I need to... I didn't know it was going to rub.... :thud:

there were no tags or disclaimers on the bag when I bought it.

anyway I am getting hard luggages now... :yeah:

curious george

29th October 2004, 18:45

Yep, I'm with Paul on this one too.
Nobodys fault but yours.
I would buy some cloth tape, and cover it up so it doesn't get worse, or repaint it, then cloth tape it, so it doesn't happen again.
It only looks like a little bit anyway, just one of those things.
Don't worry about it

Stinger

29th October 2004, 19:15

Motormail is refusing to refund the bag as they say it is not faulty, and says that I should have known that the seatbag was going to rub the paint off. And they had no responsibility of the bag doing that and telling that it'll do so.

So what is a fair thing to do?

Should motormail accept the seat bag to be returned, refund me the purchase price and fix up my paint work? Or are they really liable for nothing? Or somewhere in between?

Your comments are welcomed
- I am planning to follow this up with them with a written letter and then to small claims...

I think the paint is your responsibility but you're almost certainly legally entitled to a refund on the bag. Under the CGA, the goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought. It's a hassle going to the small claims, but I think you'd win the case.

Paul in NZ

29th October 2004, 19:47

I think the paint is your responsibility but you're almost certainly legally entitled to a refund on the bag. Under the CGA, the goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought. It's a hassle going to the small claims, but I think you'd win the case.

Then it is a seriously stuffed up world and you are as fuckin mad as he is......

The seat bag is a seat bag, it fits a gazillion bikes and they expect you to take some resonable care. Christ, were there any instructions with it or did you have to figure that out too? The stupid bikemakers build bikes with dumb protrusions on the side that any luggage will rub on. SUE THEM!!...

Christ on a freakin' crutch, use some common sense and stop blaming other people for your screw ups! We all do it every day! (screw ups) Paint is PAINT not armour plate! Anything that rubs on paint will wear it including riding trou or polish!

When I moved house to the North island the Trophy went on a trailer and I tied it on and put a cover on it. It rained, the cover got wet and messed up the chrome on a muffler. Whose fault was that?

A couple of hundred dollars you ain't even lost yet and you are taking some poor retailer to the small claims court because yoiu made a mistake and now want someone else to pay? Oh come ON! If they made a misleading claim thats something else but it's that sort of pathetic whinging that gets us all in trouble and costs us all money to cover your stupidity. Oh Oh I got hurt on your nasty bike, I want compo and guess who pays? All of us!!

I'm NOT being hard, I'm being realistic.

Everone else figures this shit out for themselves, why do you deserve special treatment or perhaps the shop ought to have a special procedure before they can let you have your luggage? Maybe they should run a course on it??

"Before I can sell you this seat bag sir/madam we have to ask you a few questions, get you to sign this and attend a 3 week residential training program"

Get over it, it's PAINT! Not a leg or an engine.... By the looks of it, it was a bungee hook that did the damage and if you could not predict that you ought to seriously consider you future on 2 wheels.... Any wheels in fact!

Oh I give up....

Sue away mate, drive those bastards at Motomail out of business, then turn ya guns on the bag makers, they did it on purpose I'll bet, those KB pricks at the rally are partially to blame as well, they should have warned you! Sue them all!

Jackrat

29th October 2004, 19:55

Mate,this is unfortunatly what we call the learning curve,an yeah it sucks bad.
Rest asured you ain't the first to find this out the hard way. :Oops:
Anyway,put it down to expereince a buy a couple of rolls of tape,motomail is not at fault here.

Posh Tourer :P

29th October 2004, 20:10

I entirely agree with Paul here - you were not using the bag in the way in which it was intended, this was not a recommended model, you should have secured it properly etc etc. Any number of reasons why you won't win the case.

Accept the fact that you are a big boy now and that you won't get warned about everything. Sometimes there's gravel on the road, or potholes even, or smooth patches of seal, or engines seizing up. They are all hazards of which, as a newbie, you could be unaware. Its not anyone in particular's fault, it just happened. Maybe someone could have done something to alleviate any of these problems.

In fact, definitely.

and that someone is YOU

Get used to it and take some personal responsibility. Its a good personality trait, and it'll get you a long way in gaining the esteem of the world around you. Its also a hell of a lot easier to say "well, I did something wrong, I'm going to change" than to try and change the world so that they protect you from doing silly things, knowingly or not.

marty

29th October 2004, 20:26

my boots have worn off the rubber covers on my pegs. i think i'll sue spidi for that. come to think of it, the road has worn some rubber off my tyres - maybe i'll go transit :)

marty

29th October 2004, 20:29

reminds me of the guy who tried to claim insurance on his cigar collection because they were 'destroyed by fire'

gav

29th October 2004, 20:32

Did you enquire if it would damage the paintwork? No? Did you expalin you had never used luggage before? oh well....what you should do is take the cover into an automotive paint shop and get them to match some paint in a spray can, may cost about $20, lightly sand the scratch and spray paint, keep the can handy, you are bound to need it in the future. You can buy clear sticky plastic called "Scuff Stuff" maybe try some mountain bike shops if your local bike shop hasnt got it (probably Motomail stock it)

gav

29th October 2004, 20:33

reminds me of the guy who tried to claim insurance on his cigar collection because they were 'destroyed by fire'
LOL except the insurance company claimed arson as he had deliberately lit the fire !!

HanaBelle

29th October 2004, 21:45

Then it is a seriously stuffed up world and you are as fuckin mad as he is......

Christ on a freakin' crutch, use some common sense and stop blaming other people for your screw ups! We all do it every day! (screw ups) Paint is PAINT not armour plate! Anything that rubs on paint will wear it including riding trou or polish!

I'm NOT being hard, I'm being realistic.

I think youre being hard, and that there is no cause whatsoever to rant at him. It DOES piss you off when little stuff like that happens. I cursed every day the melted paint on my now-ex EL250 that I quite possibly caused by strapping a plastic water bottle to it and riding five hours in the sun. If I could have blamed someone I woulda. Human nature etc and I do not see any reason to yelp.

Growl at yourself in the mirror for whatever small screw up you are projecting everywhere by all means. But excuse me if I understand what those little nasties can do to your sense of happiness about beloved transport.

HB

FROSTY

29th October 2004, 22:14

Well here is my problem...

when to motormail and bought a seat bag for the waikato rally, and during the trip the 4 tie down straps and another part of the bag that hangs over the rear rubbed right thru the rear paint work.

So now I am faced with the cost of fixing up the paint or take a $200 hit when I trade my VTR250 in. Now being a self confessed newbie have only bought my 250 and got my license in Aug, 04. I really didn't know the seat bag is going to be rubbing the paint off. Motormail is refusing to refund the bag as they say it is not faulty, and says that I should have known that the seatbag was going to rub the paint off. And they had no responsibility of the bag doing that and telling that it'll do so.

So what is a fair thing to do?

Should motormail accept the seat bag to be returned, refund me the purchase price and fix up my paint work? Or are they really liable for nothing? Or somewhere in between?

Your comments are welcomed

Im sorry the guys at Motomail diddn't explain ya need to protect ya paintwork but dude its part of being a biker--bits get busted

James Deuce

29th October 2004, 22:27

I really don't understand how anyone can support someone threathening legal action against a distributor or manufacturer because they had a learning experience.

Paul's rant is justified. This very attitude has corrupted the values of the civil law system in the US. It's about chasing ambulances and laying lawsuits against those that expose your own stupidity occasionally.

My RG250 was a pearl of a bike. But I damaged the paintwork through saddle bag straps and the way I'd attached them to the bike. My first reaction wasn't; quick go and sue Hallmark.

The rear shock was air preload. You had to put air in the shock to adjust the pre load. I didn't read the manual. Consequently the air that was in there slowly bled out over the course of a year, and I started grounding fairing panel and mufflers when I was giving it some welly. One of the WMCC guys (Bob Toomey) asked my how much PSI I was running in the rear shock when he saw the damage. I said, "Come again?". He said, "You f__king idiot", put 10 PSI in it for me and sorted out $400 worth of paint and panel work for me. He was right, and I learned a valuable lesson.

Not long after I got my brand new GSXR 250, I went round to a Mooch's sister's place for tea with Mooch, and I parked on the lawn. The ground was soft and I came outside to find my precious new bike on it's side and one of the mirrors had snapped off. That wasn't Suzuki's mistake, it was mine. I expected 170kg of bike to be supported on a metal tang the size of 2 fifty cent pieces on soft earth. My fault.

Learn as much as you can about your bike, and also ask questions BEFORE you do something you've never done before.

Don't go laying the blame for your own mistakes at other people's feet. Look at Two Smoker. He's not suing his mate or Suzuki for the engine seizure. He's analysed the accident and learned from it, and intends to apply his lesson in future should the need arise.

If you refuse to learn from mistakes you make regarding motorcycling, then one of these days you will repeat a mistake that you may have performed without any serious consequences, but this time might be fatal. Motorcycling is as much about attitude as it is about skill. If you blame everyone else for your mishaps, then you aren't learning a thing.

Paul in NZ

29th October 2004, 22:34

I think youre being hard, and that there is no cause whatsoever to rant at him. It DOES piss you off when little stuff like that happens. I cursed every day the melted paint on my now-ex EL250 that I quite possibly caused by strapping a plastic water bottle to it and riding five hours in the sun. If I could have blamed someone I woulda. Human nature etc and I do not see any reason to yelp.

Growl at yourself in the mirror for whatever small screw up you are projecting everywhere by all means. But excuse me if I understand what those little nasties can do to your sense of happiness about beloved transport.

HB

HanaBelle

I'm not ranting or being hard.. Trust me, you will know it when I am!!

I'm trying to make a strong point here. As a consumer you have rights! As a human being you have responsibilities. How many decent people go into business (like Motomail) only to get pestered out of existence by idiotic claims like this! Before you know it, YOU won't be able to buy a bloody seat bag because the manufacturers cannot make an idiot proof product... How is that fair to me?

I'm deadly, deadly serious here!!

There are direct parallels with (say) motosport events. "Oh Oh Oh I got hurt because you didn't warn me going too fast could hurt my bike so I'm going to sue you".

Go back and look at the pictures of the damage... If you cannot figure it out what happened from there.. Sheesh!

Phew! - deep breath!

OK. If the product failed, ie a covering fell off, a bungee snapped etc then fair enough! But this is nuts!

If you use stuff improperly and it gets damaged, it's YOUR problem! If you don't bother investigating HOW to use stuff before you do so, its YOUR problem!

One post to this site would have produced a stream of advice!

An "opps I screwed up" would have me springing into help mode but suggesting taking a decent retailer like Motomail to the small claims court is utterly bloody disgraceful!!

IF YOU CANNOT PROPERLY USE or FIT AN ACCESSORY AND DON"T ASK TO BE SHOWN, IMHO YOU HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME!!! Don't expect people to second guess your abilities!

Paul N

HanaBelle

29th October 2004, 22:55

HanaBelle

I'm not ranting or being hard.. Trust me, you will know it when I am!!

I'm trying to make a strong point here. As a consumer you have rights! As a human being you have responsibilities. Don't expect people to second guess your abilities!

Paul N

I understand your point but I also understand why Zapf reacted the way he did, and dont actually think its unreasonable to expect your bike NOT to be damaged by a bike purchase (although you make a good point in saying the bag is a generic and suggesting looking for those possibilities next time).

As a newbie it cost my first bike a small shitload of bits of freaking paint for me to learn/discover how fragile bike paint IS - key scratches, the melted thingy, and something else I forget now but know pissed me off at the time...no doubt 15 people will correct me but I actually suspect bike paint is far less robust than the average car surface, if my experience with it virtually flinging itself off at the least touch of something else metal is worth going on.

So - I get how the guy feels. Wouldnt have approached Motomail in the same fashion, myself, but hey, I like good relationships with bike shops, etc.

And, Jim, Im supporting understanding someone without supporting him suing...k

Anyway, whatever, I think its good to share and its good because I, for example, will now NOT attach a seat bag to the Vulcan without taping it first...and thanks to Zapf, I DIDNT have to suffer paint crap again to learn that tip. Ay. :-)

HanaBelle

Zapf

29th October 2004, 23:14

Then it is a seriously stuffed up world and you are as fuckin mad as he is......

The seat bag is a seat bag, it fits a gazillion bikes and they expect you to take some resonable care. Christ, were there any instructions with it or did you have to figure that out too? The stupid bikemakers build bikes with dumb protrusions on the side that any luggage will rub on. SUE THEM!!...

Christ on a freakin' crutch, use some common sense and stop blaming other people for your screw ups! We all do it every day! (screw ups) Paint is PAINT not armour plate! Anything that rubs on paint will wear it including riding trou or polish!

When I moved house to the North island the Trophy went on a trailer and I tied it on and put a cover on it. It rained, the cover got wet and messed up the chrome on a muffler. Whose fault was that?

A couple of hundred dollars you ain't even lost yet and you are taking some poor retailer to the small claims court because yoiu made a mistake and now want someone else to pay? Oh come ON! If they made a misleading claim thats something else but it's that sort of pathetic whinging that gets us all in trouble and costs us all money to cover your stupidity. Oh Oh I got hurt on your nasty bike, I want compo and guess who pays? All of us!!

I'm NOT being hard, I'm being realistic.

Everone else figures this shit out for themselves, why do you deserve special treatment or perhaps the shop ought to have a special procedure before they can let you have your luggage? Maybe they should run a course on it??

"Before I can sell you this seat bag sir/madam we have to ask you a few questions, get you to sign this and attend a 3 week residential training program"

Get over it, it's PAINT! Not a leg or an engine.... By the looks of it, it was a bungee hook that did the damage and if you could not predict that you ought to seriously consider you future on 2 wheels.... Any wheels in fact!

Oh I give up....

Sue away mate, drive those bastards at Motomail out of business, then turn ya guns on the bag makers, they did it on purpose I'll bet, those KB pricks at the rally are partially to blame as well, they should have warned you! Sue them all!

Ermm I think I need to put this in proper light here and hopefully don't put more oil on fire. As I don't want to be a trouble maker on this forum.

I know everything has a learning curve, and yes people including me fucks up. And I know when I have. I have own some highly tuned cars in the pass with all sort of electronic gizzmo that I can reprogram my car with. And I have owned it for 6 proud years and it is with running well with me. So my point is I respect things well enough to not fu*k with them.

I was dealing with Chris at motormail, and he well knows that i have been there in the last few months inquiring about gear and stuff and I had explained to him I am new to it all. So I went there before the ride and ask for a set of panniers, we tried to fit them on the bike but none will fit, but he did mentioned that the back of the panniers will rub the paint. So that is fine, if I did buy a set of panniers and it rubbed all my paint away I can't complain as "I have been warned"

and YES I am about to loose that few hundred dollars as I am trading up to a SV650S. And I have been told that I havee lost $200 on my trade in value due to that paint damage.

no I don't require special treatment BUT, if they sold me a product that was suppose to fit my bike and my requirement but instead damages something else in the process then they should have warned me about it. I mean, I even had my bike there to see and do a test fit on. And they even showed me how it should fit (but it still stuffed the paint)

and no I am not trying to sue them out of business, I am in retail / consultant business myself and run my own business. But I know if you sold someone something and it stuffs up their business, I am liable for damages.

If some one sold you a set of brake pads that was meant for your bike. It does the job but warped your discs after a hundred k's would you not complain?

And refering to an earlier discussion on here before about port holes, if you hit a port hole and it bents your rim did you know that the council is liable for damages? (you have to prove it of course) Because they provide a service / goods (roads) and it should be to a reasonable standard and not damage your car / bike. Since you paided your rates.

anyway that is my 2nd 2 cent.

Oh and I didn't want to do anything nasty like taking someone to small claims, I went in there today to tell them that I am not happy with what happened and gave them a chance to explain it to me and so that we can resolve it nicely.

I mean I like having good relationships with bike shops or any shops for that matter, but if they won't stand behind what they sell and it has caused damage then I take up the issue for the sake of it.

James Deuce

29th October 2004, 23:45

no I don't require special treatment BUT, if they sold me a product that was suppose to fit my bike and my requirement but instead damages something else in the process then they should have warned me about it. I mean, I even had my bike there to see and do a test fit on.

and no I am not trying to sue them out of business, I am in retail / consultant business myself and run my own business. But I know if you sold someone something and it stuffs up their business, I am liable for damages.

Did you ask whether you need to do anything to prevent damage to your bike? No? Then how do the staff know to give you any clues? I have no idea what line of retail trade you work in, but presuming you sold a male customer underpants two sizes too small, and he came back and complained he was sterile due to reduced testicular circulation, you aren't liable. ACC covers it. Just because Motomail are vulnerable to legal action in this instance doesn;t make it right to pursue it. Paul has laid the reasons out perfectly.

If some one sold you a set of brake pads that was meant for your bike. It does the job but warped your discs after a hundred k's would you not complain?

You would need to prove beyond doubt that the pads did it. I don't think you could.

And refering to an earlier discussion on here before about port holes, if you hit a port hole and it bents your rim did you know that the council is liable for damages? (you have to prove it of course) Because they provide a service / goods (roads) and it should be to a reasonable standard and not damage your car / bike. Since you paided your rates.

No they're not. Do you pay rates to every council whose district you ride through? I believe not. You have insurance to cover this type of damage. One hopes.

Shit Happens. Learn from it. Move on. It is unreasonable to expect everybody who sells you anything to warn you of every eventuality of use, and all potential costs or damage that may be caused by use. Buying a rugby ball can lead to a broken neck.

James Deuce

29th October 2004, 23:50

So - I get how the guy feels. Wouldnt have approached Motomail in the same fashion, myself, but hey, I like good relationships with bike shops, etc.

And, Jim, Im supporting understanding someone without supporting him suing...k

HanaBelle

No you're supporting the mentality that everything bad that happens to an individual is not their responsibility.

As you say, you catch more flies with honey, and Zapf has gone in 10 foot tall and invincible and blamed someone who probably assumed that he had enough nouse to to know what to do to avoid damage to paintwork.

I'd have a lot more empathy for Zapf if he'd admitted a screw up instead of launching into a blame storm, and I have no doubt that Motomail would have helped him get the paint damage sorted if he hadn't taken the route with them that he has.

Lou Girardin

30th October 2004, 06:18

Frankie

30th October 2004, 06:34

I'm NOT being hard, I'm being realistic.

No... your an arsehole thats what you are...

Come on ohnestly he admitted he was a newbie to bikes... just like me... the least they can do if give him a refund... and they should by law because "he goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought"

Thats true... I work in a retail store and we get returns like although they arent often but we still get a few a month...

Cmon just take it easy on the guy instead of being all macho im the big man here im bigger and better than you because i know more about bikes blah blah blah mwaaaah mwaaaah i want attention

...

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 06:43

Frankie

30th October 2004, 06:52

at the very least you dont have to be so harsh on the fella ae

Ms Piggy

30th October 2004, 07:19

AMPS

30th October 2004, 07:28

Would anyone here talk face to face in the same tone that's often used under the protection of a nom de net.
Rarely I'd say
Lou

Blakamin

30th October 2004, 07:35

Would anyone here talk face to face in the same tone that's often used under the protection of a nom de net.
Rarely I'd say
Lou
Hi Lou... you havent met me... :spudwave: :2guns:

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 08:00

Would anyone here talk face to face in the same tone that's often used under the protection of a nom de net.
Rarely I'd say
Lou

Yes, and frequently do when faced with pig headed stupidity.

OF course the definition is based on my own perception which as everyone knows seems to be soemwhat mistaken.

Apparently it's OK to threaten legal action aaginst a retailer for selling a person a product whihc they then use incorectly. AS for Paul's "tone" I assure you that most people here have utterly misread it. He is one of the few people I know who can use those words in that context and not leave you feeling completely worthless.

CSL - I'd sympathise if Zapf admitted he screwed up. To blame Motomail is surreal.

Paul in NZ

30th October 2004, 08:42

No... your an arsehole thats what you are...

Come on ohnestly he admitted he was a newbie to bikes... just like me... the least they can do if give him a refund... and they should by law because "he goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought"

Thats true... I work in a retail store and we get returns like although they arent often but we still get a few a month...

Cmon just take it easy on the guy instead of being all macho im the big man here im bigger and better than you because i know more about bikes blah blah blah mwaaaah mwaaaah i want attention

...

I'm an arsehole? Why? Because I have an opinion thats different to yours? Pretty quick with the old name callin' there Frankie! I'll freely admit I can be a right arsehole and an aquired taste but I'm not calling people names...

The story told here, is not always what happened there! WE WERE NOT THERE! I'll bet if Motomail had seen a chance to sell a roll of scuff stuff they would have taken it!

How were the goods not fitting the purpose? Did the bag fail? Did a zipper break? Did it fall off? Nope.... The person that fitted it failed to take reasonable precautions... It's not Motomails fault that Zapf is a new rider. In fact it sounds like they went to a bit of trouble explaining about panniers rubbing etc, if he could not make the connections....

I'm being all macho? :crazy: Bwahahahah! Big man??? Oh please! (I'll have to tell Vicki!) I know more about bikes?????? Eh???? You on pills or something?? Whats this got to do with bikes? I freely admit I know stuff all about modern bikes but I have my share of common sense! Anything that contacts your paint, ANY paint will wear through it eventually!! Be it your car, your bike or your jeans on the gas tank.
If you stumble through life not observing things like scuff stuff stuck to panel work etc without asking 'wots that there for?' then you are askin' for it!

For the record! I do sympathise! It's a shitty thing to have happened and yes it could have been prevented and ask anyone, I would be first in line to help if I could but!!!! First time I me Quasi, about the second thing I said was 'I thing your bungee strap is wearing your paint mate". BUT!!! Responsibility lays with the owner and user!!

It's a bloody motorbike! Careless people die on motorcycles really fast because they expect other people to take care of everything!! You better start learning fast from looking at what other people (that have survived) do and adopting some of their common sense!

oh.... bother.... I'm too old and tired for this....

Who cares... Alright! Yes I'm an arsehole, sue everyone, it's all their fault.. I tell you what, sue me too because I hurt your feelings and ruined your day and was mean and a big man.............

Hopefully your next of kin can sue the person the knocks you off your bike and kills you because you were too daft to stop and listen to what people are trying to tell you and didn't have the commonsense to join the dots...

And no! I'm not kidding about that and trust me, I won't enjoy it! I love life and I love people but harden up! Shit happens....

Paul in NZ

30th October 2004, 08:52

Would anyone here talk face to face in the same tone that's often used under the protection of a nom de net.
Rarely I'd say
Lou

Lou

My full name is in my email which is on this site as well as where I live. 2 seconds with the white pages will find me and I have said nothing here I would not say in court or in person. Ask anyone that knows me!

If people are offended by honesty then why should I back off? I'd be less than honest myself then? If I'm wrong, I appologise! If people are a bit sensitive? This is a bloody motorbike site! Not a tea party for the queen!

Paul N

BTW! I thought your little dig at the opposition was a goodie! :buggerd: As a retailer, Don't tell me you have never been through this sort of thing though!

Posh Tourer :P

30th October 2004, 08:57

Blakamin

30th October 2004, 08:57

Stinger

30th October 2004, 09:09

No offense zapf, but if you'd come to your friendly, local AMPS store I would have advised you how to avoid that.
Motomail aren't liable, but it shows that there are different degrees of service out there.
PS. feeling well savaged yet?

Although that was a personal plug, it's good to know. I think that sometimes when you're new to something it's impossible to know which questions to ask. Sometimes someone who genuinely knows there product can save a LOT of hassle.

Posh Tourer :P

30th October 2004, 09:12

Come on ohnestly he admitted he was a newbie to bikes... just like me... the least they can do if give him a refund... and they should by law because "he goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought"

Give him a refund because he's a newbie? I like people who are understanding, and I support being nice to newbies, but hell, these guys are actually in business, and have to make money......They arent a charitable institution or an education facility.....

The goods were bought to carry luggage - they did so. I'll bet the manufacturer has no guarantee about not damaging the bike... They'll do their best not to, but cant help it normally, because they are building a generic bag to fit many bikes of all shapes and sizes....

I work in a retail store and we get returns like although they arent often but we still get a few a month...

Just because you get a few doesnt mean that they are justified. I'm sure some of them are, but this one of Zapf's isnt

No... your an arsehole thats what you are...

Cmon just take it easy on the guy instead of being all macho im the big man here im bigger and better than you because i know more about bikes blah blah blah mwaaaah mwaaaah i want attention

ad hominem attacks... the start of most fights - if you are going to argue, do it properly.... Zapf asked for advice about which was the better course, and which was justified. Paul replied with some exasperation, and justified his reply. I'm sure neither Jim, Paul or myself want to attack Zapf, we all just feel strongly about the issue

at the very least you dont have to be so harsh on the fella ae

Perhaps true... But the more you temper your message, the less it gets through. Say what you like, but people remember the favourable bits and skip past the not so favourable bits..... I could be balanced, but I'd prefer to send a clear message first, and have the balance later if it is needed.

Marknz

30th October 2004, 09:19

Hey Zapf,

Sorry about the damage to your bike, but unfortunately it's one of those life experiences that your just going to have to learn from.

You weren't to know that if you posted a thread on here saying that you were "just about to use seat bags for the first time and were there any things I should consider?", then all those with the experience would have warned you that you need to put duck/duct? tape on the painted area's that might have been subject to some rubbing and abrasions.

Keep your head up and keep enjoying your ride.

Posh Tourer :P

30th October 2004, 09:37

I was dealing with Chris at motormail, and he well knows that i have been there in the last few months inquiring about gear and stuff and I had explained to him I am new to it all. So I went there before the ride and ask for a set of panniers, we tried to fit them on the bike but none will fit, but he did mentioned that the back of the panniers will rub the paint. So that is fine, if I did buy a set of panniers and it rubbed all my paint away I can't complain as "I have been warned"

Ok, so you accept that you had been warned

and YES I am about to loose that few hundred dollars as I am trading up to a SV650S. And I have been told that I havee lost $200 on my trade in value due to that paint damage.

no I don't require special treatment BUT, if they sold me a product that was suppose to fit my bike and my requirement but instead damages something else in the process then they should have warned me about it. I mean, I even had my bike there to see and do a test fit on. And they even showed me how it should fit (but it still stuffed the paint)

Ok so maybe they should have reiterated that you should protect the paint here

and no I am not trying to sue them out of business, I am in retail / consultant business myself and run my own business. But I know if you sold someone something and it stuffs up their business, I am liable for damages.
If some one sold you a set of brake pads that was meant for your bike. It does the job but warped your discs after a hundred k's would you not complain?

If it was the brake pads, and they were intended to fit the bike, then yes. There is a line to be drawn and I think you are on the wrong side of it.

And refering to an earlier discussion on here before about port holes, if you hit a port hole and it bents your rim did you know that the council is liable for damages? (you have to prove it of course) Because they provide a service / goods (roads) and it should be to a reasonable standard and not damage your car / bike. Since you paided your rates.

I would choose not to exercise that right, because I know exactly how hard it is to proof a road against potholes, and I understand that its practically impossible to expect them to maintain a road free of potholes, even if the law states that they should.
The law is occasionally an ass....

Oh and I didn't want to do anything nasty like taking someone to small claims, I went in there today to tell them that I am not happy with what happened and gave them a chance to explain it to me and so that we can resolve it nicely.
I mean I like having good relationships with bike shops or any shops for that matter, but if they won't stand behind what they sell and it has caused damage then I take up the issue for the sake of it.

From what I read, you haven't been trying to resolve it nicely - threats of small claims and demanding a refund dont sound nice to me.
Ask them what they think they could do to help repair the damage - if you were originally nice, they may offer cheaper paint/help you get paint repair etc...

Whose sake are you taking the case up for? I certainly hope you arent claiming my support.... "For the sake of it" sounds like a bad reason to me - are you trying to get them to stand behind their product? If they already are - and some of us seem to think they are being reasonable, then you aren't taking it up for any reason apart from personal satisfaction.

What exactly is your reason? I dont think you have the justification to try and make them stand behind their product to the extent that you want them to.

Posh Tourer :P

30th October 2004, 09:39

duck/duct? tape

Duct (From use on air conditioning ducts), significantly different from electrical tape....

FROSTY

30th October 2004, 10:09

Silly question --But dont trowover bags ALWAYS rub on exposed paintwork.
Its been a long time since I used bags but Im sure I remember that being the case.

Jackrat

30th October 2004, 11:20

No offense zapf, but if you'd come to your friendly, local AMPS store I would have advised you how to avoid that.
Motomail aren't liable, but it shows that there are different degrees of service out there.
PS. feeling well savaged yet?

Friendly AMPS store?????????????
Yeah right,the people that dropped my sporty, putting a dirty great gouge in the left side engine cover,then lied thru' their teeth about it.
AMPS,should be very carefull about taking cheap shots at other dealers.
Degrees of service :laugh:

HanaBelle

30th October 2004, 11:32

No you're supporting the mentality that everything bad that happens to an individual is not their responsibility.

<the sibiliant hiss of re-retracted claws>...you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht. :lol:

Its time to go for a ride. The weather is gonna hold, the DVDs are late being returned and the alternative is an afternoon of housework and laundry...I am taking responsibility for avoiding my responsibilities and aware I will have no one else to blame when Im jammin clothes into the dryer at 7am on Monday cos I need to wear em at 8. I WILL enjoy the ride. I will adore the throb of torque and the g-force pushing back and the spiritual sound of Wild Thing a-poundin in mah chest...I will be careful at roundabouts and assume all people in cars want to kill me, personally, and I will find my way to the backroad wherein none of them can be found and theres just me, my beloved bike, and a thousand small choices of self empowerment I get to make to ensure we, SheVulcan and I, get home together grinning sloppily like Odie from the Garfield cartoon. :wavey:

Hope you have a ride today, too.

HB

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 11:49

<the sibiliant hiss of re-retracted claws>...you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht. :lol:

HB

I'll stick up for Paul as much as I want. I don't actually give a rat's banana what anyone thinks about me, but when someone decides that a mate of mine is being harsh when he's being honest, then despite the fact he doesn't need it, I'll "buddy buddy" as much as I want. If more newbs like Zapf actually listened to people like Paul who know their shiznit, and stopped running to mummy every time they skinned their knee, we might have a lot more live motorcyclists on the road.

Frankie

30th October 2004, 12:15

i didnt really read much of the thread so took it a bit outa context so yeh sorreh :calm:

Paul in NZ

30th October 2004, 13:44

i didnt really read much of the thread so took it a bit outa context so yeh sorreh :calm:

No worries Frankie, no offense taken! I'm as hard on myself as anyone else and i make more than my fair share of stuff ups!

Now... (for me) Off to the shed for more bike tinkerin and less coffee drinkin'

Paul in NZ

30th October 2004, 13:49

<the sibiliant hiss of re-retracted claws>...you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht. :lol:

Oh you are just being naughty now! :)

BTW I'm no place close to excellent! I have as many if not more defects that usual (Vicki usually has a list handy someplace) and as for claiming high moral ground? Why madam, I'm happy to pass any recreational drug test you could mention, I'm certainly not high!

Let's not even go close to my morals

Oh well... On with life.....

Frankie

30th October 2004, 14:00

hey hey YOU!

Get back in teh garage :eyepoke:

erik

30th October 2004, 16:05

Duct (From use on air conditioning ducts), significantly different from electrical tape....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

Wouldn't that damage the paint more than the bag rubbing on it? I heard the paint on Jazbug's bike was damaged by duct tape on the Waikato rally.

30th October 2004, 16:13

I really don't understand how anyone can support someone threathening legal action against a distributor or manufacturer because they had a learning experience.

I was on a "site-safe" course a couple of months ago, they had this newpaper artical from the states about this guy that got THOUSANDS off a battery drill company Because at NO time was there any mention that scratching a itch up the inside of your nose with a drill bit was in anyway dangerous with the battery drill....

I think you guys are being a bit harsh on him, he's asking for advise, not the gumpy old mens guide to be a arsehole.

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 17:45

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

Wouldn't that damage the paint more than the bag rubbing on it? I heard the paint on Jazbug's bike was damaged by duct tape on the Waikato rally.

Never had paint on any of my bikes damaged by Duct tape. I use rolls of the stuff when I go touring too. Fork legs, leading edge of fairing, anywhere that a bag may touch the surface of the paint. I got a really good trick from Paul and that was get some rolls of the non-slip alien tech rubber stuff that you put under mats to stop them sliding from the 2$ shop. They stop your tank bag moving around and isolate any bits of ferrous metal that you may pick up on the tank bag magnets from your paint work.

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 17:48

I think you guys are being a bit harsh on him, he's asking for advise, not the gumpy old mens guide to be a arsehole.

LOL at drill bit man.

He's asking for advise on how to return a product he used incorrectly, not how to prevent paint damage from happening in future. I reserve the right to be a Grumpy Old Arsehole(tm).

Now get back to selling yor NC30 and buying an SP1.

Go on.

Nothing to see here.

Move on or I'll tell your Mum.

30th October 2004, 18:01

He's asking for advise on how to return a product he used incorrectly, not how to prevent paint damage from happening in future. I reserve the right to be a Grumpy Old Arsehole(tm).
I'm sure the drill bit guy got a new drill!!

Maybe it should have come with better instructions? Or some sort of thing to advise him that it could take the paint off the bike if not secured correctly to the motorcycle. After all they should have know that the product in question would mostly be brought by men.

Go on.

Nothing to see here.

Move on or I'll tell your Mum.
:crazy: You can talk to the dead???? :laugh:

Paul in NZ

30th October 2004, 18:08

I think you guys are being a bit harsh on him, he's asking for advise, not the gumpy old mens guide to be a arsehole.

Sob!

I seriously don't think I'm being an arsehole... I was being jolly until Stingers reply I think and then i got exasperated...

Quite understandable. Vickis in ChCh visiting #1 daughter and I have not seen her since tuesday... I'm gettin' a bit fidgity (shall we say) Dangerous almost, it's not my fault my hormones are all over the place.... I need a hug.. (Paul sets evil trap and retires hoping to snare some fresh meat in his currently deranged and highly charged state)

No?

Oh well! Back to the garge

30th October 2004, 18:27

Sob!

I seriously don't think I'm being an arsehole... I was being jolly until Stingers reply I think and then i got exasperated...

Quite understandable. Vickis in ChCh visiting #1 daughter and I have not seen her since tuesday... I'm gettin' a bit fidgity (shall we say) Dangerous almost, it's not my fault my hormones are all over the place.... I need a hug.. (Paul sets evil trap and retires hoping to snare some fresh meat in his currently deranged and highly charged state)

No?

Oh well! Back to the garge
:crazy: Jesus!
Your trying to tell me that people your age "have sexual relations" with each other? NOOOOO you lie!!! Lies I tell you, LIES!!!
As for fresh meat? I'm sure you could always thaw a rump steak, get it up to about 37 oC, that's body temperature. I'm sure of it.
Add a bit of lippy, some nice perfume and some candle light... you got yourself a biodegradable date, the wifey will never know.

YOu could always become a Mc Donalds "self entertainer"?? Just a thought.

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 18:32

I'm sure the drill bit guy got a new drill!!

Maybe it should have come with better instructions? Or some sort of thing to advise him that it could take the paint off the bike if not secured correctly to the motorcycle. After all they should have know that the product in question would mostly be brought by men.

:crazy: You can talk to the dead???? :laugh:

Point A - There is no man living or dead who reads the instructions first. By the time they hit 17 they know everything. By the time they have their first child they realise they know nothing and a sense of desperate futility sets in causing them to become fat, hairy, bald, and a Grumpy Old Arsehole (tm).

Point B - My sincerest grovelling apologies for unintentional insensitivity. My wife says I smell like the dead though.

30th October 2004, 18:45

Point A - There is no man living or dead who reads the instructions first. By the time they hit 17 they know everything. By the time they have their first child they realise they know nothing and a sense of desperate futility sets in causing them to become fat, hairy, bald, and a Grumpy Old Arsehole (tm).

Oh! ok remind me NEVER to get married! Or have children.
So if I ever post about those two topics, you have full rights to hunt me down and clip my ears, and give me a lecture about how I'm going to stuff my life up :msn-wink:

Point B - My sincerest grovelling apologies for unintentional insensitivity. My wife says I smell like the dead though.
Honestly no need to apologise :) It's all good..
As for smelling like the dead.... :puke: dude that smell is undiscribable..

James Deuce

30th October 2004, 19:22

Honestly no need to apologise :) It's all good..

Phew.

As for smelling like the dead.... :puke: dude that smell is undiscribable..

Only after a curry though.

Stinger

30th October 2004, 19:45

Sob!

I seriously don't think I'm being an arsehole... I was being jolly until Stingers reply I think and then i got exasperated...

Quite understandable. Vickis in ChCh visiting #1 daughter and I have not seen her since tuesday... I'm gettin' a bit fidgity (shall we say) Dangerous almost, it's not my fault my hormones are all over the place.... I need a hug.. (Paul sets evil trap and retires hoping to snare some fresh meat in his currently deranged and highly charged state)

No?

Oh well! Back to the garge

Ah well, I'll forgive you since you're frustrated. :kick:

I wasn't actually providing an opinion on what I thought he should do, just an opinion about his legal case. Which I stand by..... (which is just that he could probably return the bag, not do anything about his bike damage) The CGA is quite heavilly biased towards the consumer. For example If you have a bed that is 15 years old, chances are if it breaks you "Could" take it back.

Given that he now has alternative ways of fitting his bag, i.e with tape to save the paint... why not keep the bag for the next bike. It'll still work for the purpose it was bought for.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but it does pay to know your legal "rights". It's up to you if you use them...

Paul in NZ

30th October 2004, 19:55

[QUOTE=NC30_chick]:crazy: Jesus!
Your trying to tell me that people your age "have sexual relations" with each other? NOOOOO you lie!!! Lies I tell you, LIES!!!
[QUOTE]

Sorry... It runs in the family, ask my 83 year old fathers girlfriend....

Can't think of a more sexual relation than that....

30th October 2004, 21:01

:crazy: Jesus!
Your trying to tell me that people your age "have sexual relations" with each other? NOOOOO you lie!!! Lies I tell you, LIES!!!

Sorry... It runs in the family, ask my 83 year old fathers girlfriend....

Can't think of a more sexual relation than that....

Damn that Viagra!

Zapf

31st October 2004, 01:30

I'll stick up for Paul as much as I want. I don't actually give a rat's banana what anyone thinks about me, but when someone decides that a mate of mine is being harsh when he's being honest, then despite the fact he doesn't need it, I'll "buddy buddy" as much as I want. If more newbs like Zapf actually listened to people like Paul who know their shiznit, and stopped running to mummy every time they skinned their knee, we might have a lot more live motorcyclists on the road.

Newbie to bikes yes, newbie to the road or law no. Have had a nice car dynoed at 244kW @ rear wheels and haven't run anyone or myself off the road for the last 6 years that I have owned it, so I know the road and know my limits and hazards. So please don't sterotype me and put me in pigon hole.

Why am I getting shot at anyway? Yes I am listening.... I thought I asked for comments, and I got some. so that is good. :yeah: :sweatdrop

Zapf

31st October 2004, 01:36

Ok, so you accept that you had been warned

Ok so maybe they should have reiterated that you should protect the paint here

If it was the brake pads, and they were intended to fit the bike, then yes. There is a line to be drawn and I think you are on the wrong side of it.

I would choose not to exercise that right, because I know exactly how hard it is to proof a road against potholes, and I understand that its practically impossible to expect them to maintain a road free of potholes, even if the law states that they should.
The law is occasionally an ass....

From what I read, you haven't been trying to resolve it nicely - threats of small claims and demanding a refund dont sound nice to me.
Ask them what they think they could do to help repair the damage - if you were originally nice, they may offer cheaper paint/help you get paint repair etc...

Whose sake are you taking the case up for? I certainly hope you arent claiming my support.... "For the sake of it" sounds like a bad reason to me - are you trying to get them to stand behind their product? If they already are - and some of us seem to think they are being reasonable, then you aren't taking it up for any reason apart from personal satisfaction.

What exactly is your reason? I dont think you have the justification to try and make them stand behind their product to the extent that you want them to.

Posh, read again. I have tried to resolve it nice and calmly. I when there in person and reminded them about the bag that was sold and fitted by them. and then pointed out the paint damage, and anything that they would do to set me right / fair and square. They gave me a number for a paint shop and that it, refused to provide refund for the bag, refused to compensate in any part for the paint damage, refused to acknowledge that the bag had any fault in design or fit what so ever. I was nice and asked nicely, but I got given the long walk around and reason / excuse for everything, other words a long winded way of saying "no we don't care and have no responsibility although we did recommended that bag for your bike and fitted it"

[peace]

Zapf

31st October 2004, 01:40

I'm an arsehole? Why? Because I have an opinion thats different to yours? Pretty quick with the old name callin' there Frankie! I'll freely admit I can be a right arsehole and an aquired taste but I'm not calling people names...

The story told here, is not always what happened there! WE WERE NOT THERE! I'll bet if Motomail had seen a chance to sell a roll of scuff stuff they would have taken it!

How were the goods not fitting the purpose? Did the bag fail? Did a zipper break? Did it fall off? Nope.... The person that fitted it failed to take reasonable precautions... It's not Motomails fault that Zapf is a new rider. In fact it sounds like they went to a bit of trouble explaining about panniers rubbing etc, if he could not make the connections....

I'm being all macho? :crazy: Bwahahahah! Big man??? Oh please! (I'll have to tell Vicki!) I know more about bikes?????? Eh???? You on pills or something?? Whats this got to do with bikes? I freely admit I know stuff all about modern bikes but I have my share of common sense! Anything that contacts your paint, ANY paint will wear through it eventually!! Be it your car, your bike or your jeans on the gas tank.
If you stumble through life not observing things like scuff stuff stuck to panel work etc without asking 'wots that there for?' then you are askin' for it!

For the record! I do sympathise! It's a shitty thing to have happened and yes it could have been prevented and ask anyone, I would be first in line to help if I could but!!!! First time I me Quasi, about the second thing I said was 'I thing your bungee strap is wearing your paint mate". BUT!!! Responsibility lays with the owner and user!!

It's a bloody motorbike! Careless people die on motorcycles really fast because they expect other people to take care of everything!! You better start learning fast from looking at what other people (that have survived) do and adopting some of their common sense!

oh.... bother.... I'm too old and tired for this....

Who cares... Alright! Yes I'm an arsehole, sue everyone, it's all their fault.. I tell you what, sue me too because I hurt your feelings and ruined your day and was mean and a big man.............

Hopefully your next of kin can sue the person the knocks you off your bike and kills you because you were too daft to stop and listen to what people are trying to tell you and didn't have the commonsense to join the dots...

And no! I'm not kidding about that and trust me, I won't enjoy it! I love life and I love people but harden up! Shit happens....

I have common sense, I walked in there with the budget to buy a good set of givi panniers. I walked out having spend less than 1/2 my budget with a seat bag, sure very happy at that time. Until I found that the product end up costing me more than what I paided for the product doubled. so yes they had a chance to sell me lots and lots of scuff proof and I was listening for the record.

Zapf

31st October 2004, 01:48

Whoooooaaaaa! All getting a little bit outta hand here people. Lets bring some peace, love and understanding (and mung beans) back here and all take a deep breath.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh - thats better now isn't it?

Fankie - Paul is definitely no arsehole. I think I can safely say he is a valued member of KB's, with an excellent bike knowledge.

I do, however, sysmpathise with Zapf. As I mentioned earlier I'm a newbie and I would never to think to ask about things like the bag rubbibng bits off my paint work off, although it don't matter on the Bitchin' Mobile.

Zapf the bag did actually serve it's purpose though i.e. to carry your belongings. Yeah it does suck that your paint work got damaged and I think it's unfair that it wasn't pointed out to you that this would happen but, at the end of the day I wouldn't recomend bad mouthing about a business on a public forum and maybe that's why you got the harsh responses you did.

Just want to point out that I am not trying bad mouthing at this stage, I am stating what has happend and its true. I wanted to get a balanced view point from the people, and not hopefully a coloured or clouded one as one can have when in such siturations. and yes I got my result, and got some views that will balance mine.

Oh and I didn't now threaten or tell the business that I'll post it on a public forum or get a mediator (which is small claims) if they didn't do so and so. I have left it to their own device as to how to handle this case, fair and square.

Oh and everyone, please really read up on what small claims courts is. It not sueing someone, its a disputes resolution method when both parties cannot resolve their differences. Where a 3rd party will look at it from a neutral prespective. NO Damages or penelties can be imposed except on the subject / object in question. NO lawyers are involved. So NO you would be footing the bill for lawyers or court fees.

Zapf

31st October 2004, 01:58

Ah well, I'll forgive you since you're frustrated. :kick:

I wasn't actually providing an opinion on what I thought he should do, just an opinion about his legal case. Which I stand by..... (which is just that he could probably return the bag, not do anything about his bike damage) The CGA is quite heavilly biased towards the consumer. For example If you have a bed that is 15 years old, chances are if it breaks you "Could" take it back.

Given that he now has alternative ways of fitting his bag, i.e with tape to save the paint... why not keep the bag for the next bike. It'll still work for the purpose it was bought for.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but it does pay to know your legal "rights". It's up to you if you use them...

Thanks Stinger

People I am purely talking about it as an topic, I have not threatened anyone or company or fill in any forms or filed any proceedings. Although I reserve the rights to... I was wondering why this thread was getting out of hand, can't you grown ups with so much knowledge & wisdom keep your cool and look at it subjectivelly? :bleh: ok... just go and have a beer and chill out and forget any of this has happened.

Zapf

31st October 2004, 02:23

Ah well, I'll forgive you since you're frustrated. :kick:

I wasn't actually providing an opinion on what I thought he should do, just an opinion about his legal case. Which I stand by..... (which is just that he could probably return the bag, not do anything about his bike damage) The CGA is quite heavilly biased towards the consumer. For example If you have a bed that is 15 years old, chances are if it breaks you "Could" take it back.

Given that he now has alternative ways of fitting his bag, i.e with tape to save the paint... why not keep the bag for the next bike. It'll still work for the purpose it was bought for.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but it does pay to know your legal "rights". It's up to you if you use them...

I have also LEARN from this experience, and going to get a hard top box instead. So there is no chance of rubbing the paint now is there?

wildfire1

31st October 2004, 07:36

Mmmm........wow , looks like it got a little heated in here.

Heres my 1.98 cents worth (depreciation), please note this is an opinion only - so no name calling, I’m a sensitive individual :baby:

1. All of us (at some stage) rely on the opinions of those that are supposed experts in their field. When we are given that advice we have an expectation that it will be right, some times it is, and sometimes it is not :pinch:

2. You get what you pay for - no this is not a harsh way of saying you were cheap, so you deserved what happened, but even the most naive of us understand when some thing does not sit 100% right, or we feel that things could be different - i.e expected to spend $$$ but it only cost me $.

3. Most people seldom speak up for fear of appearing like a 'dork' for challenging the opinion of a so called expert (i know this because I am both the expert and the dork)- But common sense must prevail above all other ranting :headbang:

So to finish...and finally get to my point.
Take it on the chin - I don’t think Motomail ever had any intention of causing any harm, the bag does what bags do, and common sense should have prevailed over the fitting of the bag by BOTH parties.
If you really want to get a definitive opinion as to who is right - sure go to the disputes court - BUT you may still never be entirely happy with the verdict anyway.
Purchase the top box with the 'correct' fitting kit for your bike (I love my GIVI one) :Punk:
Now get on with your life and go and Ride your bike...like you know you wanna.
Good on you for asking the opinions of others...... :msn-wink:

Ms Piggy

31st October 2004, 07:41

Just want to point out that I am not trying bad mouthing at this stage
Hmmmmmmm, sorry Zapf but I have to disagree with ya on that one. The title of your thread is "Seat bag problem.... and Motormail" and then your original post is about Motomail. I just don't think it's a good idea and personally I wouldn't post the name of a business on a public forum, you never know when that will come back and bite you in the butt.

Jackrat

31st October 2004, 07:46

I have also LEARN from this experience, and going to get a hard top box instead. So there is no chance of rubbing the paint now is there?
Mate,
If as you say this shop actualy fitted the bag,then yes they should do the rigthie by you and fix the damage.You should of said they fitted it in the first place,that changes the whole deal,they did it,they should fix it.
I based my earlier reply on the infomation you originaly gave,it sounded like you fitted the bag yourself.
As for the top box,let's see how many times you kick the thing getting on an off :msn-wink:

Paul in NZ

31st October 2004, 09:08

Oh I just love this! Information in dribs and drabs! The most important bits last!

Now you say motomail actually fitted the bag? Since (in my experience) these things are designed to be removeable I'm going to assume you didn't touch it at all from their original fitment?

If they fitted it AND you didn't touch it afterwards then yes they have a case to answer.

If they fitted it AND you did touch it afterwards then no they don't have a case to answer.

Paul N

Paul in NZ

31st October 2004, 09:15

I have also LEARN from this experience, and going to get a hard top box instead. So there is no chance of rubbing the paint now is there?

No, but unless it's a factory fitment and you strictly adhere to the load ratings you can damage the frame / paint by stressing parts that were never designed to bear those loads.... If you put a Givi one on they are generally pretty good.

Any luggage on a bike is generally the LAST thing the designer looked at and is more often the work of the devil. Exceptions being proper tourers with integral luggage and even some of them ain't too flash!

Don't bank on any of it being waterproof either.

The lash ups, black plastic rubbish sacks and 100's of bungee cords are all a part of the fun of touring on a bike.

Paul N

James Deuce

31st October 2004, 09:30

Newbie to bikes yes, newbie to the road or law no. Have had a nice car dynoed at 244kW @ rear wheels and haven't run anyone or myself off the road for the last 6 years that I have owned it, so I know the road and know my limits and hazards. So please don't sterotype me and put me in pigon hole.

Why am I getting shot at anyway? Yes I am listening.... I thought I asked for comments, and I got some. so that is good. :yeah: :sweatdrop

What has the car got to do with it? You publicly complained about a retail motorcycle outlet and threatened legal action via legal statute. There was no hint that you'd even considered that you might have checked out proper installation procedure or negotiated with Motomail, instead you bad mouthed them in a public forum with incomplete evidence. Given that this is a "written" media, and probably archived you've done yourself no favours.

Despite what you say further down, we DO pay for the SCC, and there are costs involved for the losing party. I think you are being frivolous, you haven't explained yourself well at all, and if you take ANYTHING away from this make sure it is asking how something works BEFORE you spend money on it. If you possibly can, reflect on why it is not always the "best" approach to use the CGA or SCC whenever things go wrong for you. You may have a "right" (actually a privilege) to legal recourse but is it the right thing to do?

31st October 2004, 09:56

The lash ups, black plastic rubbish sacks and 100's of bungee cords are all a part of the fun of touring on a bike.

Paul N
And one of those net thingees?

I sorta need to know...

Stinger

31st October 2004, 10:08

Hmmmmmmm, sorry Zapf but I have to disagree with ya on that one. The title of your thread is "Seat bag problem.... and Motormail" and then your original post is about Motomail. I just don't think it's a good idea and personally I wouldn't post the name of a business on a public forum, you never know when that will come back and bite you in the butt.

I think that given that he stated what had happened (I thought he did a pretty good job), then including the name of the retailer was a good idea. Most people here didn't think motomail did anything wrong so it doesn't do their name any harm for those people. I think that knowing about these situations is a really good idea.

I have two different shopping strategies. The one where I go and buy something at the cheapest price, because I already know everything I want to know about a product..., and the one where I want advice because of the potential to waste more money by purchasing the wrong product. Both of these strategies usually result in the getting the best overall value or cost to me. It makes a really big difference to me if people employ "Sales people" who's sole job is to make more money, or "knowledgeable staff".

Should they have told him about the paint - Yes
Is it their Fault - No

I think more people should put their stories like this out on the line, and I hope that the name calling won't deter other people from doing so. That way if there are things they hadn't considered then they can be told...

Zapf

31st October 2004, 10:31

What has the car got to do with it? You publicly complained about a retail motorcycle outlet and threatened legal action via legal statute. There was no hint that you'd even considered that you might have checked out proper installation procedure or negotiated with Motomail, instead you bad mouthed them in a public forum with incomplete evidence. Given that this is a "written" media, and probably archived you've done yourself no favours.

Despite what you say further down, we DO pay for the SCC, and there are costs involved for the losing party. I think you are being frivolous, you haven't explained yourself well at all, and if you take ANYTHING away from this make sure it is asking how something works BEFORE you spend money on it. If you possibly can, reflect on why it is not always the "best" approach to use the CGA or SCC whenever things go wrong for you. You may have a "right" (actually a privilege) to legal recourse but is it the right thing to do?

QUOTE POST #63 (Please read again below)

Posh, read again. I have tried to resolve it nice and calmly. I when there in person and reminded them about the bag that was sold and fitted by them. and then pointed out the paint damage, and anything that they would do to set me right / fair and square. They gave me a number for a paint shop and that it, refused to provide refund for the bag, refused to compensate in any part for the paint damage, refused to acknowledge that the bag had any fault in design or fit what so ever. I was nice and asked nicely, but I got given the long walk around and reason / excuse for everything, other words a long winded way of saying "no we don't care and have no responsibility although we did recommended that bag for your bike and fitted it"

Paul in NZ

31st October 2004, 11:16

And one of those net thingees?

I sorta need to know...

Yeah! I've got one of those net thingies and sometimes even use it on the bike! :blah: (I use it on the kayak too - what were you thinking of?) :2thumbsup

They are a bit wimpy though and only useful for holding my usual mobile haystack together and not much chop for holding stuff ON. Tight bungees are the go there! More the better 'cos it's amazin' how stuff falls to the side etc etc.

We use 2 small soft panniers, a tank bag and a old BMW soft sausage roll thingie (it was on sale) on the genuine and only snaped off twice Agostini Luggage rack and I'm amazed how much munt we can carry on a bike never designed to do so.

On a longer trip the net goes over everything and holds crap like the cover (in case you stop for coffee and it rains) and stuff I pick up off the road (old hub caps, spare limbs and hitch hikers)

Paul N

Posh Tourer :P

31st October 2004, 12:28

you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht. :lol:

Not wanting to be picky/smarmy, but these are not bad things that have happened to these people so dont apply to whoever-it-was's argument

Posh Tourer :P

31st October 2004, 12:35

Posh, read again. I have tried to resolve it nice and calmly. I when there in person and reminded them about the bag that was sold and fitted by them. and then pointed out the paint damage, and anything that they would do to set me right / fair and square. They gave me a number for a paint shop and that it, refused to provide refund for the bag, refused to compensate in any part for the paint damage, refused to acknowledge that the bag had any fault in design or fit what so ever. I was nice and asked nicely, but I got given the long walk around and reason / excuse for everything, other words a long winded way of saying "no we don't care and have no responsibility although we did recommended that bag for your bike and fitted it"

[peace]

Ok, fair enough, I think that they have some responsibility here if they fitted the bag. They still did tell you that paint can rub off, so some of it is yours too. I think that it isnt worth hassling them over - Its a pain in the butt for a small business going to small claims court, and I think in the interests of a working society its worth just wearing the damage (see earlier references to litigious society etc).

You may be claiming that you havent threatened them or anything, but your original post says "I plan on following this up with a written letter and then small claims". That is part of the reason why everyone is so riled.... (or as they would have it, mildy interested)

Posh Tourer :P

31st October 2004, 12:43

Oh and everyone, please really read up on what small claims courts is. It not sueing someone, its a disputes resolution method when both parties cannot resolve their differences. Where a 3rd party will look at it from a neutral prespective. NO Damages or penelties can be imposed except on the subject / object in question. NO lawyers are involved. So NO you would be footing the bill for lawyers or court fees.

Yes, I am aware that the small claims court is not punitive. I still reserve the right to say that in this case it might as well be because there wasnt (in your original post) enough evidence to prove they were at fault as far as I was concerned.

Motu

31st October 2004, 15:25

Lou Girardin

31st October 2004, 17:18

Lou

My full name is in my email which is on this site as well as where I live. 2 seconds with the white pages will find me and I have said nothing here I would not say in court or in person. Ask anyone that knows me!

If people are offended by honesty then why should I back off? I'd be less than honest myself then? If I'm wrong, I appologise! If people are a bit sensitive? This is a bloody motorbike site! Not a tea party for the queen!

Paul N

BTW! I thought your little dig at the opposition was a goodie! :buggerd: As a retailer, Don't tell me you have never been through this sort of thing though!

It wasn't solely directed at you Paul, but I do think that there is a very aggresive tone that is often unecessary. But we shouldn't get all american and nauseatingly nice either.
I've met zapf and he doesn't strike me as a whinger or victim.
And, yes, we do get unreasonable people at work. But I've learnt that you never win an argument with a customer.

31st October 2004, 17:53

On a longer trip the net goes over everything and holds crap like the cover (in case you stop for coffee and it rains) and stuff I pick up off the road (old hub caps, spare limbs and hitch hikers)

Paul N

Oh thank you :)

Can I get of those extra limbs off you? Great for party trix:msn-wink:

manuboy

31st October 2004, 17:58

Hey yah..... Zapf.... why can't you just respray? for around $50-90 bucks it'll be cheaper than what you lose on the trade?????

I was never gonna mention this. But one night, i had a beer. Well...actually if was half a shandy, but i was well wobbly, and i decided to go out on a dark, dark night - with the express intention of getting rid of 5 of the 150 safety stickers suzuki stick on.

Little did i realise they were not stickers, but titanium labels stuck on with super glue and fly shit... so i pulled out a blunt scraper thinking "argh... it's gonna get nasty, but ill be careful and use this here citrus anti sticky stuff".

Walked out the next mornin, Faaaaaaaaark! WTF? I'd scraped an area of "paint" about the size of your hand off the exposed frame. So i screamed, yelled, cursed the gods, thought about putting a bigger uglier sticker than the one i'd removed and selling the bike to my next door neighbour.

When sanity returned, i turned up at the local panelbeater supply shop, they colour matched it by eye. $30 bucks of silver and $17 bucks of clear topcoat, and nobody is the wiser. And the thing is, i like the bike even better now. It's like a house dude - it ain't really yours until you've knocked it round and patched it up.

Go ahead - i promise it'll make you feel better than hassling the poor lads at Motomail!

p.s some paints are harder to match than others, the candy and pearl effects that are common today are... but it can be done....

31st October 2004, 18:05

I was never gonna mention this. But one night, i had a beer. Well...actually if was half a shandy, but i was well wobbly, and i decided to go out on a dark, dark night - with the express intention of getting rid of 5 of the 150 safety stickers suzuki stick on.

...

A shandy! That's too much even for me!!! :shit:

But seriously...that's cheap!
I had a dude try and tell me that 500 bucks to respray the tank of the NC, and I had to sand it back... I passed and painted the bike myself...except for the tank...looks good from a distance :crazy:

Zapf

31st October 2004, 18:43

As a small business owner I live in fear of people like Zapf - they can take me to the cleaners over matters that are absolutly nothing to do with me.The small claims court and consumers rights are stacked against the business holder - even after they have done all the right things,they get back...'you should of known better',well, the customer should of known better too,but we can't say anything bad about them can we,oh no....

ah yes Motu, I know all well. I run my small business, but I sure as don't tell me customers to piss off when some thing I have sold them damanges something else they own. I would have looked at the problem, find out why it occured and propose a solution, and if required make them happy so they will come back.

Motormail is a small business? not that small.

Can they afford a bag getting returned and a paint fix up without adversely affecting the business, yes. But to me their mentiality is that its ok to not sort me out cause they are big enough and don't need me as a customer.... and that is what have set me on this direction.

So fine, I am getting all sorts of givi panniers and racks. Do you think I'll buy it from there? no. So for the long term they have loose me as a customer, now tell me from a business prespective what makes sense? loose little now and make more money later? or not loose little now andd make none later?

if they are smart about business they should have done the right thing.

ps. yes i am going to be getting a quote of getting the paint fixed.

Zapf

31st October 2004, 18:48

Yes, I am aware that the small claims court is not punitive. I still reserve the right to say that in this case it might as well be because there wasnt (in your original post) enough evidence to prove they were at fault as far as I was concerned.

Cool. point taken.

Yamahamaman

31st October 2004, 19:15

CAVEAT EMPTOR

Live with it. The product does what it was intended to do - it carries luggage. I do not believe you have any recourse.

Posh Tourer :P

31st October 2004, 19:51

So fine, I am getting all sorts of givi panniers and racks. Do you think I'll buy it from there? no. So for the long term they have loose me as a customer, now tell me from a business prespective what makes sense? loose little now and make more money later? or not loose little now andd make none later?

So they have lost out. Don't go there anymore, and tell them that you were going to buy a set of panniers from them, but you dont like their service, ie that you think they ought to have shown you how to fit the panniers to prevent damage. Thats enough, and if they know that you arent going back, isnt that enough for you? It is as much of an effect for them as small claims court.
If enough people think similarly to you, then they'll be forced to change thier standards, but you taking them to small claims certainly wont do it....

soundbeltfarm

31st October 2004, 20:14

Paul in NZ

31st October 2004, 20:47

It wasn't solely directed at you Paul, but I do think that there is a very aggresive tone that is often unecessary. But we shouldn't get all american and nauseatingly nice either.
I've met zapf and he doesn't strike me as a whinger or victim.
And, yes, we do get unreasonable people at work. But I've learnt that you never win an argument with a customer.

Ah! Lights come on in Pauls head!

Lou (and Zapf) It's not a 'tone'. Once you meet me you will realise I'm like that 90% of the time. ie a little over the top sometimes... Warren Zevon wrote a song about me, "Exciteable Boy". I'm a bit mediteranean I'm afraid. Full of passion in everything at time, look at the bloody bikes I ride!

I gets me into trouble but then again it also makes me a fantastically skilled rider and a wonderful lover so it balances out in the end... :cool:

Paul N

Family motto - Stong opinions loosely held. (you had to be quick witted and tough at our dinner table)

Posh Tourer :P

31st October 2004, 20:53

I gets me into trouble but then again it also makes me a fantastically skilled rider and a wonderful lover so it balances out in the end... :cool:

Those opinions are of the loosely held variety then? :bleh:

Zapf

31st October 2004, 22:18

hey zaph if you be getting hard top box, what you doing with your piece of trouble bag?
i couldnt give 2 shits what it does to the exterior of my bike.
its their for me to ride not look at, because it was hit with the ugly stick at birth. so theres FU%$#all looks going on with my puppy. ( scratch it some more i say)
let me know.

Haha Soundbeeltfarm - you are a smart man :)

But, to put things in order.... I have told a KB'er that if I don't sell it on trademe then I'll give it to him. If he does not want it then its yours ok. :msn-wink:

Paul N, ah i see. Re your "tone". Ermm yea cause I though you were getting agro as well...

Ree fyi, I think I am fair. When people are nice I am nice, when people (or business) are mean I am mean. Thats all. Just how I work, kind of a like a mirror for the principle an eye for an eye. unless they don't mean it u know.... :)

Zapf

31st October 2004, 22:24

So they have lost out. Don't go there anymore, and tell them that you were going to buy a set of panniers from them, but you dont like their service, ie that you think they ought to have shown you how to fit the panniers to prevent damage. Thats enough, and if they know that you arent going back, isnt that enough for you? It is as much of an effect for them as small claims court.
If enough people think similarly to you, then they'll be forced to change thier standards, but you taking them to small claims certainly wont do it....

Haveen't done that yet. but its quite mean.... I hate being mean. :thud:

But I might hint it next time when I have my bike with those panniers on. :wavey:

In my last few months of research it occured to me that almost every bike equipment shop can supply you with exactly the same thing the other bike equipment shop is selling down the road. So yes, if motormail is to have customers that put importance on service and perference for integrity then they have to take note.

Paul in NZ

1st November 2004, 07:22

Those opinions are of the loosely held variety then? :bleh:

No no. Totally quantifiable. I would not lie about these things... (exagerate maybe but not lie)

Paul N

soundbeltfarm

1st November 2004, 09:06

Haha Soundbeeltfarm - you are a smart man :)

But, to put things in order.... I have told a KB'er that if I don't sell it on trademe then I'll give it to him. If he does not want it then its yours ok. :msn-wink:

Paul N, ah i see. Re your "tone". Ermm yea cause I though you were getting agro as well...

Ree fyi, I think I am fair. When people are nice I am nice, when people (or business) are mean I am mean. Thats all. Just how I work, kind of a like a mirror for the principle an eye for an eye. unless they don't mean it u know.... :)

cheers mate, let me know

HanaBelle

1st November 2004, 11:03

Not wanting to be picky/smarmy, but these are not bad things that have happened to these people so dont apply to whoever-it-was's argument

I have no idea what you are talking about and "wot???" is my bestest reply. Did you go for a ride in the weekend? I did. Pillioned someone for the first time too. Didnt fall over. Didnt scratch anything. Wore a gas thingymabob so looked very dweeby but better than sucking more I-hate-the-city shit into lil pink lung things. My bike is still dusty from last weekend's trip up Norf. My security chain is a pain-in-butt to carry around. We didnt lie to the parking building man this morning so I could lock it into a free covered parking space and we still got to park it there. Cool, eh?

HB

Blakamin

1st November 2004, 11:32

Have had a nice car dynoed at 244kW @ rear wheels
I thought kW was for front wheel drives???

"real" cars (rear wheel drive) use horse power!!!

now where'd i put my pointy stick

NordieBoy

1st November 2004, 11:39

I thought kW was for front wheel drives???

"real" cars (rear wheel drive) use horse power!!!

now where'd i put my pointy stick

But didn't you know?
A ricer can get 200+ kW at the rear wheels on a front wheel drive.

Just ask them :eyepoke:

That Guy

1st November 2004, 12:04

A good thread with some opinions from both sides of the fence.

I agree totally with Paul - just one of life's lessons. If the bag had fallen apart that would be different, but your situation is little bit like buying a tyre and then complaining that it wore out......what's common knowledge to most people isn't always for others - I think motomail can be forgiven in this instance for not providing a disclaimer that read "Warning, this is a strap on seat bag and seat bags will wear on paintwork if not secured with due care and attention"......the sort of attitude that thinks motomail should pay for the damaged paintwork is what is causing society so much pain today - needless OSH rules because 1 person got hurt in 1988 so the other 4 million of us have to abide to signs like "warning, fire will burn".

We can't be allowd to blame others as an alternative to applying common sense.

A bit like that boy a year or so ago who climbed into some power lines from a tree and got badly hurt (killed even?) - a tragedy for sure but who got the blame? The power company did which is just stoopid.

You can lead a horse to water etc...

Dodgyiti

1st November 2004, 12:16

Posh Tourer :P

1st November 2004, 12:24

I have no idea what you are talking about and "wot???" is my bestest reply. Did you go for a ride in the weekend? I did. Pillioned someone for the first time too. Didnt fall over. Didnt scratch anything. Wore a gas thingymabob so looked very dweeby but better than sucking more I-hate-the-city shit into lil pink lung things. My bike is still dusty from last weekend's trip up Norf. My security chain is a pain-in-butt to carry around. We didnt lie to the parking building man this morning so I could lock it into a free covered parking space and we still got to park it there. Cool, eh?

HB

Funky.....I didn't ride this weekend cos I have exams..... Study + lying in sun thinking about study = no riding time... I went into a Newmarket parking building once by slipping past a barrier... but what I ddint realise is that they pay places were manned at the other end... :blink: So I couldnt really slip past... Luckily the guy was nice and wave me through after a car :sweatdrop without me having to explain that I'd snuck in and had no ticket....

Nice change of topic BTW

James Deuce

1st November 2004, 12:38

Just a quick note about the advice given so far here

Do Not use duct tape on yer paintwork ok?

Some people here learned about that on the Waikato Rally eh? :Oops:

There is some nice clear protective tape avaliable, get them.

You live and learn.

Dodgyiti- The Duct Tape Man- :bash:Never had an issue using Duct tape on bike paintwork. Must be an Italian paintwork thing if you had issues with it.

scumdog

1st November 2004, 12:41

[QUOTE=Zapf]Well here is my problem...

when to motormail and bought a seat bag for the waikato rally, and during the trip the 4 tie down straps and another part of the bag that hangs over the rear rubbed right thru the rear paint work.

So what is a fair thing to do?

A fair thing to do would be to learn from it, have a look at other 'bikes, you'll see paint rubbed off by the lower edge of the seat, you'll see alloy all scuffed where riding boots have been grinding into it when the rider shifts gear, just have a close look on any bike - if there is movement of one surface against another YOU'LL GET WEAR! doesn't matter if it is a seat/bungy-cord/tank-bag, learn to anticipate where you COULD get rubbing while riding and protect the bikes surfaces - use 200mph tape or clear plastic film, hell I've even used a soft rag between my sissy-bar and gear-bag.
I get ticked off by rub-marks/scratches/paint-chips too but they are a fact of (biking) life.

Paul has a point, - everybody wants to blame somebody else for their ignorance and/or screw-ups, tht's why all new rifles have some mega-fuggly lettering stamped on the barrel telling you to "read included instructions before using firearm as failure to do so could result in personal injury" WTF!! it's a RIFLE, damn it EVERYBODY knows they hurt when you get it wrong but some people still had a go at the makers 'cos they shot their sorry arse off by mistake!! :angry2:

merv

1st November 2004, 13:02

Many years back I bought my VFR new in Feb '94. By Easter that year I noticed my leathers had little red marks on them - hmmmm paint I thought, so I immediately fitted "scuffproof" to the tank and side covers and have had no problems since. I I'd left it any longer I am sure I would have worn through the paint. My early bikes had steel tanks and I wore patches on them before "scuffproof" was invented. My later dirt bikes had plastic tanks and were no worry, then I bought the DR250 in '98 with steel tank, so I covered it with "scuffproof" before I used it and have done the same with my wife's DR650 we just bought. My WR has a plastic tank with film already fitted at the factory. Others have talked about the new product "tankslapper".

The moral of the story is paint isn't very strong, if you are going to rub it, protect it. Experience helps understand this. Use tape if you like, but stuff like "scuffproof" or "tankslapper" is the way to go as it looks a whole lot better.

Even on my WR for the Pukemanu run I wanted to strap a bag on the back so where the tie down bungys were going to rub even I put tape over the plastic work. See attached pic. Pulled it all off after, looks sweet. Now I'm finally trying to get a rack on it as Ventura are at last doing the brackets for the WR if you believe the ad in Kiwi Rider .

Not much help telling you this after the event but it is part of the life of biking - you want your bike to look good, you've got to protect it.

HanaBelle

1st November 2004, 13:14

I went into a Newmarket parking building once by slipping past a barrier... but what I ddint realise is that they pay places were manned at the other end... :blink: So I couldnt really slip past... Luckily the guy was nice and wave me through after a car :sweatdrop without me having to explain that I'd snuck in and had no ticket....

I think its fantastic how many parking places dont charge bikes, even those with heavy traffic loads - Greenlane and North Shore hospital, and the Auckland Airport covered parking for recent examples! I cant work out why exactly they dont charge bikes, since a bike in a car space takes, well, the same space..but dont look a gift horse in the mouth, eh...

Best part is the bike parks at Auckland hospital are right by the door.

Youre all really great people, Im not getting any work done. Rampant bike addiction ack..

HanaBelle

Zapf

1st November 2004, 15:01

I thought kW was for front wheel drives???

"real" cars (rear wheel drive) use horse power!!!

now where'd i put my pointy stick

Now you are playing with me :) Its a RWD 2.5L I6

So no not your typical ricer. An no its does not have a body kit.

its around 4xx HP at the engine if you convert it.

Zapf

1st November 2004, 15:21

Just a quick note about the advice given so far here

Do Not use duct tape on yer paintwork ok?

Some people here learned about that on the Waikato Rally eh? :Oops:

There is some nice clear protective tape avaliable, get them.

You live and learn.

Dodgyiti- The Duct Tape Man- :bash:

some of those duct tapes are also know as race tape, and they stick to paint very well. and sometimes too well infact ;) people use it to tape up dinged up race cars.

AMPS

2nd November 2004, 07:47

Ah! Lights come on in Pauls head!

Lou (and Zapf) It's not a 'tone'. Once you meet me you will realise I'm like that 90% of the time. ie a little over the top sometimes... Warren Zevon wrote a song about me, "Exciteable Boy". I'm a bit mediteranean I'm afraid. Full of passion in everything at time, look at the bloody bikes I ride!

I gets me into trouble but then again it also makes me a fantastically skilled rider and a wonderful lover so it balances out in the end... :cool:

Paul N

Family motto - Stong opinions loosely held. (you had to be quick witted and tough at our dinner table)

Ahh, it becomes clear. You're a Paulo not a Paul.
I have the same problem, but many years in sales made me tone it down.
It's that Latin passion.
Lou

Paul in NZ

2nd November 2004, 08:01

Ahh, it becomes clear. You're a Paulo not a Paul.
I have the same problem, but many years in sales made me tone it down.
It's that Latin passion.
Lou

What part are you toning down Lou?

The passionate debating, skilled riding or amazing abilities in the sack? Having read some of your posts, I'm glad the internet was not around before you got into sales... It certainly would have made this a pretty lively board! :)

Paul N

AMPS

2nd November 2004, 08:56

Language mainly, aging took care of the others.
Lou

manuboy

2nd November 2004, 09:04

Zapf

2nd November 2004, 11:42

Well, not much.

If any of you out there haven't heard of it, theres a product i found out about from Dangerous, it's a 3M clear (invisible almost) adhesive done by a company called tankslapper @ http://www.thetankslapper.biz

Really good stuff. They make awesome "whole bike" protection kits. This stuff can be tricky-ish to apply well, but once on it's wicked. You can remove it without damaging the paint as well.

In this case it would have definitely saved the paint.

Serive is top notch as well.... i ordered the tank kit b4 i found out about the whole bike kit and they credited me. It arrives in 5 working days from the States. All good!

Ok I am getting a set. Anyone keen? So we can get it shipped together.

Paul in NZ

2nd November 2004, 11:51

Bloody Cheek

They don't list a kit for a 1980 Mk2 LeMans Humph!

vifferman

2nd November 2004, 11:59

Bloody Cheek

They don't list a kit for a 1980 Mk2 LeMans Humph!Isn't their paint (if there's any left of it) allergic to the modern solvents in the modern adhesive of such a modern product? :Pokey:

manuboy

2nd November 2004, 12:11

Bloody Cheek

They don't list a kit for a 1980 Mk2 LeMans Humph!

[TONGUE COMPLETELY IN CHEEK] sue them paul! [/END TONGUE]

Paul in NZ

2nd November 2004, 12:12

Isn't their paint (if there's any left of it) allergic to the modern solvents in the modern adhesive of such a modern product? :Pokey:

Paint? They used paint? If they did it was water based! Oddest bunch of finishes I have ever seen on a vehicle......

Almost a funny as old pommie bikes

Besides, I think it's just the riders that are allergic to modern stuff... You know, TV, Rap music, soap, womens sufferage and stuff like that...

Paul N

manuboy

2nd November 2004, 12:13

Zapf,

Shipping was pretty minimal - it arrives in an envelope - $6 dollars NZ i think...

Paul in NZ

2nd November 2004, 13:19

[TONGUE COMPLETELY IN CHEEK] sue them paul! [/END TONGUE]

ROTFLMAO Thats the best one today! Bloody brilliant Manuboy! :D :lol:

Almost saved this whole thread single handedly!

Paul N

HanaBelle

2nd November 2004, 13:36

Ok I am getting a set. Anyone keen? So we can get it shipped together.

I am, but the only Vulcan they list is 02-04 750. Will investigate. But would it actually cost less to ship a couple of sets? And do we know if Customs charge on these things? I had to whimper heavily at them to get away with import duty and GST on my Bohn armour just last week.

HanaBelle

manuboy

2nd November 2004, 14:31

I am, but the only Vulcan they list is 02-04 750. Will investigate. But would it actually cost less to ship a couple of sets? And do we know if Customs charge on these things? I had to whimper heavily at them to get away with import duty and GST on my Bohn armour just last week.

HanaBelle

Hanabelle - you wont save any costs obviously unless one of you orders both products and has them shipped to the same physical address. If the order is under $400 (how many panels on your bike???? :)) you won't be charged GST as far as i know.

Anyway... me and dangerous at least can vouch for the product ...

manuboy

2nd November 2004, 14:34

ROTFLMAO Thats the best one today! Bloody brilliant Manuboy! :D :lol:

Almost saved this whole thread single handedly!

Paul N

HAHAHA....Just glad i could repay some of the entertainment value that i've (we've?) had from this thead... was worth missing my cuppa + Coro St reading it....

Zapf

2nd November 2004, 15:26

Zapf

2nd November 2004, 15:30

Also found a place on the shore that does these 3M stuff for bikes and jetskis.

They are

PWC Planet - personal watercraft
Ph: 09 44 33 064
175 Archers Rd, Glenfield.

They say it'll cost around 100~150 max to do the important bits on a bike. They were recommended to me by Reflections M/C refinishers.

NordieBoy

2nd November 2004, 18:49

3rd November 2004, 04:10

Well, not much.

If any of you out there haven't heard of it, theres a product i found out about from Dangerous, it's a 3M clear (invisible almost) adhesive done by a company called tankslapper @ http://www.thetankslapper.biz

Really good stuff. They make awesome "whole bike" protection kits. This stuff can be tricky-ish to apply well, but once on it's wicked. You can remove it without damaging the paint as well.

In this case it would have definitely saved the paint.

Serive is top notch as well.... i ordered the tank kit b4 i found out about the whole bike kit and they credited me. It arrives in 5 working days from the States. All good!
.
.
Yep, this is really good stuff. I've got it on my 1000, and wish I'd known about it when I bought my 800. When I get my S2R I'm going to get it as well. Since I'm not sure when I'm getting it, I won't order the S2R tankslapper yet.

Have to agree that the service is excellent, and the shipping costs are minimal. Hamish fitted mine and it didn't take long at all.
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