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View Full Version : Holy crap! A judge with some balls!!



Swoop
30th November 2007, 08:26
This (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10479243) guy deserves a medal!
Good stuff!!
The taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for overseas visitors and their sprog production. They'll probably use the kids' birth certificate to try and re-enter the country though.



A judge refused to allow a Chinese illegal immigrant to be deported until she had paid $9000 for maternity care she fraudulently obtained from Waikato Hospital.

And when told the woman was living on little money with no savings, the Hamilton District Court judge scoffed at the claim, saying the "Chinese as a race are exceptional savers".

The debt has since been settled and health officials are delighted because they now feel more confident of recovering money from 20 other overstayers.

Jing Wu, 26, racked up the health care bill when she had a baby at Waikato Hospital. She then falsified her passport to avoid having to pay.

Jing appeared in court with a deportation order hanging over her head and was due to fly out of the country before Monday.

Judge Andre Wiltens refused to pass sentence on the fraud charge until he could be reassured that the health bill would be settled.

She had given birth to a son in September.

When she was asked to submit her passport to confirm her entitlement to free health care she falsified her travel document to make it appear that she had residency.

A district health board administrator picked up the fraud.

In court yesterday, the matter was adjourned by Judge Wiltens for more than five hours. During the break the woman's friends and family in China wired $8998.09 to New Zealand.

Earlier Jing's lawyer, Len Caley, had told the court that her husband - who was deported on Wednesday - would arrange reparation within the next month, but there could be "no guarantees".

He said Jing had no conceivable money source in New Zealand but the judge questioned the lawyer: "So what you're saying is the reparation order will be worthless?".

Judge Wiltens said he would put the matter back a week so money could be arranged to be paid back.

Mr Caley said his client was due to be deported by immigration authorities "if not tomorrow, maybe Monday".

Jing and her husband had both worked in New Zealand during their seven and five years respectively in the country, had paid taxes and "contributed just as much as anyone else".

She was now living in "subsistence" and didn't have any savings.

The judge was still not satisfied.

"Chinese as a race are exceptional savers. Are you telling me there are no savings whatsoever?"

Later yesterday, Mr Caley told the judge his confidence in seeking reparation had borne fruit, and the money had been wired through from China.


"That's a surprise, isn't it?" the judge said.

Outside court, Jing said she was looking forward to returning to China with her 10-week-old son to be with her husband, whom she had married in New Zealand in June.

She never realised she had owed the money, she said.

"I'm sorry about that. I know that something that goes around comes around. Something little got bigger and bigger and I didn't know where to turn."

The judge dismissed an application for suppression of the circumstances of the fraud.

vifferman
30th November 2007, 08:36
Blatant racism, that's what that is!
She should've appealed, and cost the taxpayer even more money. :rolleyes:







Seriously though ("WTF!?!? You dunno how to BE serious, Vifferdork!" :Pokey:), it'd be great if news of this gets around. I'm sure there are many immigrants who see UnZud as a 'soft touch' and deliberately rip 'us' off.

Dave-
30th November 2007, 08:51
my mum is a midwife and wont take on a women without her citizenship because they'll leg it back to whatever country without paying the bill

Steam
30th November 2007, 08:58
Jing and her husband had both worked in New Zealand during their seven and five years respectively in the country, had paid taxes and "contributed just as much as anyone else".

They spent 7 and 5 years here respectively. I'm a bit confused as to why they aren't entitled to the healthcare. THat's long enough to have a NZ passport and be a resident and everything. WOnder why they weren't.

James Deuce
30th November 2007, 09:01
WOnder why they weren't.
Because they never applied for residency. They were overstayers as documented in the article.

Steam
30th November 2007, 09:07
oh yip, that explains it.

Marmoot
30th November 2007, 10:00
[

"Chinese as a race are exceptional savers. Are you telling me there are no savings whatsoever?"


Bullsh00t. I've never heard of a ChineseSaver.
I've heard of KiwiSaver though, although the number of "kiwi" people being let off their crimes without paying still astounds me.

100 hours of community work for $32k fines must be due to inflation, yeah?

jrandom
30th November 2007, 10:07
I feel a bit sorry for the woman. She doesn't seem like the brightest of sparks. I doubt that the pregnancy and birth was maliciously planned in NZ; often, these sorts of things happen in life and cause complication that the parents would far rather have avoided.

Still, your average Chinese, in my experience, is very good at suddenly becoming blank-eyed and non-understanding in the face of a commercial or personal financial obligation.

Sorry, Marmoot, it's true. It's a noticeable cultural difference. Pulling the wool over someone's eyes and getting away with a ripoff is considered, in China, a clever and amusing achievement.

Mikkel
30th November 2007, 10:14
When she was asked to submit her passport to confirm her entitlement to free health care she falsified her travel document to make it appear that she had residency.

Yeah - you're not too bright if you try and falsify your passport and fail at it!

Good on the judge not letting them get off it easy. However, IMHO opinion his comment must be considered racism.

MSTRS
30th November 2007, 10:15
Pulling the wool over someone's eyes and getting away with a ripoff is considered, in China, a clever and amusing achievement.

It is. When done to each other. In China. Here - it is simply fraud.
Good on that judge.

Marmoot
30th November 2007, 10:15
Sorry, Marmoot, it's true. It's a noticeable cultural difference. Pulling the wool over someone's eyes and getting away with a ripoff is considered, in China, a clever and amusing achievement.

hmm......missing my point, mate. Read again. I was discussing a totally separate issue :)

(hint: It's not my usual racism-post this time. It's about NZ justice system)

jrandom
30th November 2007, 10:17
... his comment must be considered racism.

If racism involves stereotyping everyone from a particular country with, well, cultural stereotypes... yes.

But what's so bad about seeing someone from China and thinking that they're probably financially prudent?

No worse in my book than seeing a New Zealander and thinking that they have a phobia of overachievers, or seeing an Australian and thinking that they're completely loopy.

And you know we all do that. ;)

jrandom
30th November 2007, 10:18
hmm......missing my point, mate. Read again. I was discussing a totally separate issue :)

(hint: It's not my usual racism-post this time. It's about NZ justice system)

Ahhh, quite right. Sorry. See Marmoot post, start beating anti-anti-racism dead horse, that's me...

:p

Mikkel
30th November 2007, 10:29
If racism involves stereotyping everyone from a particular country with, well, cultural stereotypes... yes.

But what's so bad about seeing someone from China and thinking that they're probably financially prudent?

No worse in my book than seeing a New Zealander and thinking that they have a phobia of overachievers, or seeing an Australian and thinking that they're completely loopy.

And you know we all do that. ;)

Oh - you assume that I implied that racism was bad...

j/k

But on a more serious note - that is what racism is (and the same goes for any kind of generalisation I guess). And while the judges generalisation could be much more crass it's still racism. I'm sure that there are financially imprudent chinese people out there - take care or they might get offended. ;)

Ocean1
30th November 2007, 10:41
Oh - you assume that I implied that racism was bad...

j/k

But on a more serious note - that is what racism is (and the same goes for any kind of generalisation I guess). And while the judges generalisation could be much more crass it's still racism. I'm sure that there are financially imprudent chinese people out there - take care or they might get offended. ;)

No, it's not. It's prejudice, a perfectly natural and almost anavoidable human trait, you do it every time you see someone.

Racism is treating an individual prejuciciously, (and by implication with less respect).

Dave-
30th November 2007, 11:07
I feel a bit sorry for the woman. She doesn't seem like the brightest of sparks. I doubt that the pregnancy and birth was maliciously planned in NZ; often, these sorts of things happen in life and cause complication that the parents would far rather have avoided.

Citizenship for the child, it was planned.

I know I would, look at china, who the hell would want to be born there? if NZ turned to shit I'd fully rock over to america with the missus then drag my ass wife and american son/daughter back to NZ

Marmoot
30th November 2007, 11:13
Ahhh, quite right. Sorry. See Marmoot post, start beating anti-anti-racism dead horse, that's me...

:p

Hang on....I think I still have it somewhere from your post long ago....

wait....here it is

jrandom
30th November 2007, 11:17
Citizenship for the child, it was planned.

Ah well, what's the harm in that?

So long as she pays her bills, of course.

Glad to see that it looks like the courts have sorted that out, so all good. Hopefully it'll set a precedent and fewer folk will get away with doing it for free. I have no issues whatsoever with overseas folk coming and paying for their healthcare here during pregnancy and birth so that they can have NZ citizenship for their kid.

The child in question is unlikely to grow up to be a drain on our taxes, unlike the vast majority of sprogs spawned in South Auckland hospitals every week.

Marmoot
30th November 2007, 11:23
Good on the judge not letting them get off it easy. However, IMHO opinion his comment must be considered racism.

Clarifying my (first) post in this thread: It is not racism IF it is applied to everybody.

The question is whether the same standard is currently applied to everybody or not....:scratch:


Ms Presley said she already did community work and had no idea how she would complete the 180 hours handed down by Judge Fred McElrea after her lawyer, Alex Witten-Hannah, successfully argued she could not pay a fine.

Ms Presley is the mother of Auckland internet queen Annette Presley, founder of internet provider Slingshot who appeared on the 2005 NBR Rich List with an estimated worth of $70 million.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10384323


Defence lawyer Richard Bodle said the contracts for painting new homes were usually about $9000 and the Smiths had intended to work off the debt.
...
Mr Smith was sentenced to 160 hours' community work and Mrs Smith to 120 hours.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10473228


Last week, Auckland bus driver Tu Tukino, 45, was sentenced to 40 hours of community work for failing to stop after his bus allegedly knocked down a pedestrian, Rongfa Jiang, on Dominion Rd in April. Mr Jiang later died in hospital.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=663&objectid=10472174

I'd say, good on the judge to say that. But we need more judges with more balls and different colours too. Can't play good pool with only a yellow ball eh?

James Deuce
30th November 2007, 11:26
Citizenship for the child, it was planned.


Citizenship is no longer automatically conferred.

RantyDave
30th November 2007, 12:03
100 hours of community work for $32k fines must be due to inflation, yeah?
Holy mother of god. $320/hr for community work? I had NO idea. Excuse me, a career picking up litter in the park awaits.

Dave