Shafties can't wheelie [Archive]

Tank

1st December 2007, 18:24

I was reading a thread in in Rant and Rave and there was a comment from someone that shafties cannot wheelie.

I have a M50 which is shaft driven. Wheelies dont matter to me in the slightest, but the comment got me thinking.

What are the advantages disadvantages of the 3 main drive types (shaft, belt, chain)?

The only thing I know is that Shaft is low maintenance and keeps the bike clean.

Thanks

banditrider

1st December 2007, 18:32

They can too!

manwithav8

1st December 2007, 18:43

They can too!

trust you!!

kiwifruit

1st December 2007, 18:44

of course they can

onearmedbandit

1st December 2007, 20:24

Shaft driven bikes are supposed to be smoother, of course their trade-off is weight, transmission losses, and lack of gear adjustability. Hence why you see them on cruisers, and not sportsbikes. They are of course longer lasting then your average chain. Chain drives of course offer one of the least amount of losses in the drivetrain, but need to be maintained and changed regularly, however it is very easy to change gear ratios. Also they are very light and simple, hence their appeal on cheap bikes and sportsbikes. As for belt drives, couldn't be too sure myself. But of course gear ratio changes are not easy.

nudemetalz

1st December 2007, 20:45

I've,....ummm....errr.....had the Guzzi on the back wheel but please don't tell Mrs Nudie.... :shit:

NZsarge

1st December 2007, 20:47

They can too!

Funny, when I read the headline to this post I thought of this very picture.

bmz2

1st December 2007, 21:01

don't try this at home:woohoo: m109r doing a wheelie:bleh:and shafties can't wheelie:eek:

MaxB

1st December 2007, 21:10

DUCATI*HARD

1st December 2007, 21:18

I was reading a thread in in Rant and Rave and there was a comment from someone that shafties cannot wheelie.

the real question is,can you wheelie:bleh:

MaxB

1st December 2007, 21:21

don't try this at home:woohoo: m109r doing a wheelie:bleh:and shafties can't wheelie:eek:

Arf Arf. Try this one, must be like trying to wheelie a small island

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1002464091001241599mGiGEjlFCA

nudemetalz

1st December 2007, 21:23

...and this one is definitely wheelying..

banditrider

1st December 2007, 21:25

Wouldn't be right to not have a piccy of a GS standing on one foot!

Big Dave

1st December 2007, 21:27

Don't need no steenkin' seals

Big Dave

1st December 2007, 21:31

Master Stretch:

:gob:

Boob Johnson

1st December 2007, 21:41

of course they can
Yeah why WOULDN'T you be able to lift the front of a shaft drive??? :blink:

don't try this at home:woohoo: m109r doing a wheelie:bleh:and shafties can't wheelie:eek:
No helmut as well :eek:

Waylander

1st December 2007, 22:16

Virago 1100 wheelies but not very high and lands really hard.
Vmax will flip if you let it and lands REALLY FUCKING hard when you don't know what you're doing.

Have had to replace forkseals on both those bikes now.

James Deuce

1st December 2007, 23:05

I've wheelied a Breva 750. Shafties will lean to one side if you don't know what you are doing (I don't - I didn't mean to do it). Fun way of changing lanes though.

Oakie

2nd December 2007, 07:40

The first wheelie I ever saw was a shaftie ... a Yamaha XS850 (triple) if memory serves correctly. Performed in Thames St, Oamaru about 1980. Gee I are getting old!

NUTBAR

2nd December 2007, 08:48

i try not too... but i cant help it.
:rolleyes::2thumbsup:

Tank

2nd December 2007, 08:55

the real question is,can you wheelie:bleh:

Not a hope. I wouldn't want to be the biker behind me when I accidently shit myself by doing one.

vifferman

2nd December 2007, 09:01

Belt drives, which are common in industry, have the advantages of quieter running, light weight, no lubrication requirements, fewer adjustments (depending on design) and reduced sprocket wear. Disadvantages include complexity, cost of replacement eg kevlar belts, damage tolerance and some heat/solvent resistance issues.
They also result in less power loss through the drivetrain than shaft or chain drive. However, the width of the cog thingies (technical term) can be an issue, especially since the average Harley type width belt isn't up for more than 100 horsies, so you'd need more width even with modern fibre (kevlar etc) reinforced belts.
The only other disadvantage I can think of with belts that's not already mentioned is occasional damage from stones getting bewteen the cogs and belt teeth.

Shaft drives tend to have less smooth (i.e., clunkier) gear changes, due to less 'give' in the drivetrain, than either chain or belt drive. There can also be torque effects affecting the handling of the bike, but the manufacturers are onto this, and do things like have the crankshaft rotating the ooposite direction to the driveshaft, or somesuch.

Ixion

2nd December 2007, 09:34

I remember belt drive bikes. Very unreliable, slipping and the fastener things pulling out. And smelly, too. Chains were much better.

Pixie

2nd December 2007, 11:34

I've wheelied a Breva 750. Shafties will lean to one side if you don't know what you are doing (I don't - I didn't mean to do it). Fun way of changing lanes though.

This is not a trait of the shaft drive.
It is caused by the inline crank of Guzzi's,BMW R's and Honda ST's etc.
A BMW K1200 (new one) doesn't experience lateral torque reaction.

Pixie

2nd December 2007, 11:43

There can also be torque effects affecting the handling of the bike, but the manufacturers are onto this, and do things like have the crankshaft rotating the ooposite direction to the driveshaft, or somesuch.

The torque effects that cause handling problems are due to shaft drives tendency to raise the bike under power and squat under engine braking.
The other drives don't suffer this as bad as the force on the rear pulley/sprocket is offset and forces the swing arm in the opposite direction to the above forces.
The floating final drive on some Guzzi , BMW's and the Kawasaki 1400 is the way designers overcome this effect.

Big Dave

2nd December 2007, 12:11

I remember belt drive bikes. Very unreliable, slipping and the fastener things pulling out. And smelly, too. Chains were much better.

Old hat. The belt drive on the Buell is superior to chain for road and street use. And some off road.

Quiet, non-serviceable, no specified replacement interval, no lubrication, no adjustment...no smell??? no slop, no mess, cheaper overall.

More prone to breakage. Mine is still good at 30,000. Some last 250,000.

If I snapped two in a week I'd still be ahead of the game.

I like shafties too.

Waylander

2nd December 2007, 12:15

Old hat. The belt drive on the Buell is superior to chain for road and street use. And some off road.

Quiet, non-serviceable, no specified replacement interval, no lubrication, no adjustment...no smell??? no slop, no mess, cheaper overall.

More prone to breakage. Mine is still good at 30,000. Some last 250,000.

If I snapped two in a week I'd still be ahead of the game.

I like shafties too.
Maybe he likes having to do constant maintenance.

James Deuce

2nd December 2007, 12:18

This is not a trait of the shaft drive.
It is caused by the inline crank of Guzzi's,BMW R's and Honda ST's etc.
A BMW K1200 (new one) doesn't experience lateral torque reaction.

That makes more sense. Of course I may have had an arse cheek off the seat. That would make it lean too.

Big Dave

2nd December 2007, 12:28

The torque effects that cause handling problems are due to shaft drives tendency to raise the bike under power and squat under engine braking.
The other drives don't suffer this as bad as the force on the rear pulley/sprocket is offset and forces the swing arm in the opposite direction to the above forces.
The floating final drive on some Guzzi , BMW's and the Kawasaki 1400 is the way designers overcome this effect.

As stated in my 'award nominated' article on the Concours - thar is no slop or torque steer heavydent. And it's a nice looking bit of engineering too.

Currently penning the reveiw of the R1200S BMW.
It has a bit of a gyro torque to one side when revved at idle. But that's the motor.

I've been riding shafties since a 1976 XS1100 but I have NEVER noticed any torque reaction from a shaft drive once the bike is in motion.

Clunkyness and a bit of slop in the old days was eeet.

saltydog

2nd December 2007, 13:19

Still doesnt negate the fact that the most efficient way of deilvering the most amount of power to a rear wheel is by chain. Belt drives belong on hogs, and shafty's on eurobikes withheated grips. See any of those top motorcross bikes with a shaft? But, horses for courses. :niceone:

Mikkel

2nd December 2007, 15:00

All lies and photoshop!

;)

klyong82

2nd December 2007, 15:05

I did a wheelie on a Guzzi Breva 1100 shaft driven as Jim2 said it tends to lean on one side never straight. Fun though..:yes:

Waylander

2nd December 2007, 15:16

See any of those top motorcross bikes with a shaft? But, horses for courses. :niceone:
Shaft drive would be too heavy and belts have had the problem of stones getting jammed in them before so I wouldn't want those on a bike meant to do jumps and ride in dirt ruts either.

banditrider

2nd December 2007, 15:38

Shaft drives tend to have less smooth (i.e., clunkier) gear changes, due to less 'give' in the drivetrain, than either chain or belt drive. There can also be torque effects affecting the handling of the bike, but the manufacturers are onto this, and do things like have the crankshaft rotating the ooposite direction to the driveshaft, or somesuch.

Ride a Concours! No issues whatsoever with gearchanges or torque affecting the handling.

I've ridden about 4 different shafties (just got off my old man's GS while he was sampling the 14) and the only one of them that had any (minor) issues was an old XV1000. The engineers have got it sorted!

Big Dave

2nd December 2007, 16:25

I did a wheelie on a Guzzi Breva 1100 shaft driven as Jim2 said it tends to lean on one side never straight. Fun though..:yes:

Nothing to do with the shaft drive.
Thats the gyro effect of the engine configuration. BMWs do it too.

The flywheel or the crank or the clutch is facing the wrong ways innit.

EJK

2nd December 2007, 16:30

Monsterbishi

2nd December 2007, 18:23

Many moons ago, circa early mid 90's I had a shaft driven XZ400, was slow as a wet week(ie - my previous '83 cb250rs could leave it for dead) but could get the front up with some liberal abuse of the clutch.

ok, so it was in first only, was too heavy to bounce it up in any other gear.

The day one of it's thermostats siezed shut and cooked it was just about the happiest day of my life!

NordieBoy

20th January 2009, 10:55

longwayfromhome

20th January 2009, 11:17

For touring bikes, shaft drive is generally preferred because of the reduced maintenance, thats the #1 reason. When you are many days on the road, one less thing to do/carry becomes important. The greater power-loss over the power-loss in a chain drive is generally considered a reasonable trade-off.
There again, a stuffed rear-drive on a shaft drive is a tad more serious a problem than a broken chain.

imdying

20th January 2009, 11:39

Bet he crapped himself :DOh I dunno.... looks like he's having a bloody good time! :D

Hitcher

20th January 2009, 11:40

They can too!

Pfft. Photoshopped.

Tank

20th January 2009, 12:17

Was going to start another thread but thought I'd search and dredge up an old one instead.

From the drags on Sat at Motueka.

Bet he crapped himself :D

As an aside...
I hope that's not a nitrous bottle obscuring his right blinker..........

If Im going to wheelie something that weighs as much as my mother in law - Im going to wear a full faced helmet.

NordieBoy

20th January 2009, 15:40

If Im going to wheelie something that weighs as much as my mother in law - Im going to wear a full faced helmet.

Hell the rider isn't exactly malnourished either.

ManDownUnder

20th January 2009, 15:45

If Im going to wheelie something that weighs as much as my mother in law - Im going to wear a full faced helmet.

Dude - did you just mentioned popping one up and your mother in law in the same sentence???

... I'd recommend full body armor as well...

Tank

20th January 2009, 16:09

Dude - did you just mentioned popping one up and your mother in law in the same sentence???

... I'd recommend full body armor as well...

Dont even fucken joke about it.

Some things are just too terrible ......

I think Im gonna be ...:sick:

SARGE

20th January 2009, 16:21

I was reading a thread in in Rant and Rave and there was a comment from someone that shafties cannot wheelie.

bullshit.. there was a picture in one of the bike rags when the M50 just came out.. poised nicely on its rear wheel

and the person posting that has never ridden an old Vmax...they were hard to keep on 2 wheels at the best of times

when i was at colemans.. i took an old shitter GN home every once in awhile.. group of Busa's (bikeshop groupies) were giving me stick about it until i put it mono and rode it down the hill..

hell.. even scooters can loft the front if ya ride them right

maybe said person needs to ride a shafty..with some balls

SARGE

20th January 2009, 16:31

Hell the rider isn't exactly malnourished either.

just goes to show ya just how much power those damn things have..

Subike

20th January 2009, 16:52

I better tell my Yamaha 1979 XS1100 "SHAFT DRIVE"
that it better keep the front wheel on the ground
And that means in second gear too :Pokey:

But it is not intellygent enough to read, so dont it know any better :2thumbsup

jrandom

20th January 2009, 17:12

bullshit.. there was a picture in one of the bike rags when the M50 just came out.. poised nicely on its rear wheel

Dude. Photoshopped.

when i was at colemans.. i took an old shitter GN home every once in awhile.. group of Busa's (bikeshop groupies) were giving me stick about it until i put it mono and rode it down the hill..

Of course you did, it's chain drive.

NordieBoy

20th January 2009, 17:43

Dude. Photoshopped.

You're loving this arn't you :D

Richard Mc F

20th January 2009, 19:19

Subike

20th January 2009, 19:27

OH MY GOD..........so I couldn't hold my old XS1100 through to third after all, the shame, hehehehe:lol::lol::lol:

'spose I will have to experiment on some of this modern stuff to to if they have reverse antidive fitted:2thumbsup

Third!!!!!
But But But
Was yours 30 years old and 80k on the clock when you did it???
Was it , hey hey! was it!!

SARGE

20th January 2009, 19:50

Dude. Photoshopped.

Nah..if i remember correctly.. the writer got in the shit over it from /suzuki

Of course you did, it's chain drive.

its a GN man.. if that can wheely.. anything can

Big Dave

20th January 2009, 20:15

Richard Mc F

20th January 2009, 20:19

Third!!!!!
But But But
Was yours 30 years old and 80k on the clock when you did it???
Was it , hey hey! was it!!

No nut I was 21 and totally fucking bullet proof:bleh:, wern't 100% stock with about 30k though:done:

Capt M Stubbing

15th April 2009, 08:32

i had a bmw r850r, it wheelied nicely. no one ever expected it

NordieBoy

15th April 2009, 08:53

i had a bmw r850r, it wheelied nicely. no one ever expected it

Least of all the rider?

aahsv

24th April 2009, 20:14

Blatman

24th April 2009, 20:25

Yeah! Go Max!

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