Bikers collide with Police car in Buller Gorge (1 December)

[Grahameeboy]

True, but the whole area was/is that cop's patch and he would have to be familiar with pretty much all of it. Familiarity breeds contempt?
And Grahameeboy, it was a 3 point turn....the slowest of the lot.

Well trying to do a u-turn in a Holden is gonna end up in a 3 point turn eh.

[MSTRS]

Well trying to do a u-turn in a Holden is gonna end up in a 3 point turn eh.

:Oi: Actually, my Commodore doesn't (much) more room than my Laser or 626

[Grahameeboy]

:Oi: Actually, my Commodore doesn't (much) more room than my Laser or 626

Yep but using the pavement doesn't count

[scumdog]

:Oi: Actually, my Commodore doesn't (much) more room than my Laser or 626

The Queen Mary has a tighter turning circle than the new Commodores, THE worst of any modern rear-wheel drive cars I've use lately - apart from my T-bird. (But then it IS the size of the Queen Mary)

[vifferman]

Look its fucken simple
ok
you do a u turn and cause an accident ....ok

it your fucken fault
That's quite right. It all boils down to the fact that regardless of whether the bikers were speeding or not, the policeman chose to perform a u-turn in a very stupid place, in order to catch an alleged speeder.
Why are there rules about road speeds?
- Safety.
It's another example of a very minor offense being far outweighed by a much sillier and more unsafe action.

If the cop had been Joe Public, there'd be no discussion: he'd automatically be guilty of dangerous driving causing injury.

I'm by no means anti-cop, but I am getting more than a bit pissed off by the ridiculous emphasis on speeding. The issue is supposed to be road safety, not over-zealaous enforcement of what are sometimes rather arbitrary rules. If the police are prepared to drive in a manner that is dangerous to other road users in order to meet quotas and gather naughtiness taxes for the Gubmint, then a serious overhaul of our whole traffic safety and policing programme is overdue.

[MSTRS]

The Queen Mary has a tighter turning circle than the new Commodores, THE worst of any modern rear-wheel drive cars I've use lately - apart from my T-bird. (But then it IS the size of the Queen Mary)

Oh well, mine isn't new...perhaps the steering has been run in?

[Coldrider]

If ya' drive in reverse everywhere, ya can use the handbrake to change direction without swapping lanes.

[Deano]

And if it was pile of rubble from the cliffs above or a mob of sheep you'd want it / them prosecuted too.


Now that's just plain silly.




But I don't think that anyone here that rides a bike like a 999 Duke or Benelli TNT could keep a straight face and say that they were only doing 90 - 95 through that section of road. MPH perhaps might be closer to the truth.

Not anyone ? - That's a bit silly too Spud. Check out the chicken strips of some GSXR1000's, 999's etc to see how hard some guys don't ride their bikes.

Not very objective.

[Kendog]

Not anyone ? - That's a bit silly too Spud. Check out the chicken strips of some GSXR1000's, 999's etc to see how hard some guys don't ride their bikes.

Not very objective.

Agreed, a fast bike does not make a fast rider.

[roogazza]

And if it was pile of rubble from the cliffs above or a mob of sheep you'd want it / them prosecuted too.

If you use public roads you will at some stage find obstructions on them.

Come on Spud , I can almost see you smiling ?? Cops make fuckups like anyone else .(done some myself and had to do the 367's)
Guess the pulse went up when he saw the speeding motorist and he just had to nab him ?// Gaz.

[Pixie]

Oh please. Body roll and noise to judge the speed of oncoming bikes 'accurately.' What planet are you on?


Skyryder

Twat
I wrote VEHICLES

[Pixie]

Ah, another myth to add to the "highly trained expert marksmen" that Police are meant to be.

FFS We would need another 300 extra staff to cover when the others were not on deck due to being away for 'expert' training for various elements over a month or so each year.

Highly Trained me arse!!

I expect your bosses will tell you that training will only make police drivers and weapons users "over confident" and therefore dangerous".

Quote: "Training only makes drivers over confident..."
Supt Dave Cliff - Whangarei roadsafe meeting

[McJim]

Yep but using the pavement doesn't count

Actually rear wheel drive cars generally have a much tighter turning circle than shorter wheelbase front wheel drive cars. Best I've seen is a London cab and they are quite big fuckers too.

[spudchucka]

TFamiliarity breeds contempt?

Sort of like how you can fang it along nice bits of winding road 99% without ever finding an obstruction on the road and then on that one day..........

[spudchucka]

Now that's just plain silly.




Not anyone ? - That's a bit silly too Spud. Check out the chicken strips of some GSXR1000's, 999's etc to see how hard some guys don't ride their bikes.

Not very objective.

The tyres on my Monster are testament to the fact that I ride like a Nana but I can still bash my way through a gorge like that at way more than 90 - 95 kph without finding the edge or limit of grip.

[spudchucka]

its always the cars fault by default aint it.

Particularly if it has Xmas lights on top.

[spudchucka]

Oh yeah? In that case, common sense would tell you (as it has most of us) that the cop was a complete pillock turning where he did.

Show me where I've said otherwise.

[scumdog]

Come on Spud , I can almost see you smiling ?? Cops make fuckups like anyone else .(done some myself and had to do the 367's)
Guess the pulse went up when he saw the speeding motorist and he just had to nab him ?// Gaz.

Not giving a defence but these new Commodes have air-bags in the 'A'-pillar which make the 'A'-pillar almost as thick as the 'C'-pillar in the average car, i.e. one very big blind spot.
And the rearwards vision is also equaly obstructed.
I wonder if there is any correlation between these blind-spots and the (lately) crashes??

[MSTRS]

Sort of like how you can fang it along nice bits of winding road 99% without ever finding an obstruction on the road and then on that one day..........
....some stupid cunt leaves his brain at home.

Show me where I've said otherwise.
Never said you did, but based on what we know at this stage, 2 bikers who were doing nothing wrong, were left with no options...yet you would have them (perhaps equally/at least partially) responsible for what happened.

[Quasievil]

Cop charged with two counts of dangerous driving, turns out the boys were NOT speeding

there ya go

[Mom]

Well, well, it was about time!

[MSTRS]

Hoo-fuken-ray. Vindication.
Where did you find that out Q? And what do you say to 'what you know of the bikers?' now.

[yungatart]

Cop charged with two counts of dangerous driving, turns out the boys were NOT speeding

there ya go

That's exactly how it should be.
It may go some way to restoring faith in our police force and justice system, but I doubt it.

[banditrider]

Article from Nelson paper here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/nelsonmail/4334695a6007.html

[Usarka]

Not giving a defence but these new Commodes have air-bags in the 'A'-pillar which make the 'A'-pillar almost as thick as the 'C'-pillar in the average car, i.e. one very big blind spot.
And the rearwards vision is also equaly obstructed.
I wonder if there is any correlation between these blind-spots and the (lately) crashes??

Especially if you're a tall fecker. death by safety???

[Katman]

turns out the boys were NOT speeding



But interestingly enough, it doesn't say in that article that they were NOT speeding, it says no comment was being made about whether they were speeding.

[Katman]

Personally, I think the outcome is as it always was going to be. The officer was certainly guilty of a careless manoeuvre and the public backlash that would have resulted if they'd tried to pursue any speeding charges would have only made the cops look worse.

[Swoop]

good thing you don't pay me what I'm worth - ya wouldn't be able to afford it!!
I knew there was a reason why 5c coins were done away with!! :rofl: Doubled your income now!

Someone showed me the magazine. from memory it was a series of "wally of the year awards"
Then they awarded the cop a wally for his contradicting statements that;
1. "he didn't see the bikes"
and
2. "you were speeding"
:niceone:

The biker interviewed,stated speed at 95 km. They did the correct thing in my mind,i.e choose best place to hit,the front one would have looked to swerve and thought no good swerving to right and taking the other guy out behind,and/or risk head on to any other traffic,so swerve left try to miss the gravel and grass on road verge,or hit bonet of car.
They wouldn't have had the time to make that split-nanosecond decision if they were speeding. Poor buggers coming around the corner to find a roadblock, for that is exactly what it is.

[scumdog]

Cop charged with two counts of dangerous driving, turns out the boys were NOT speeding

there ya go


No, wait - that can't be right??:confused:
The nay-sayers said it wouldn't happen, they said the cop would get off it, they said there would be a whitewash and nothing would happen..:rolleyes:

I gues it was 'trial-by-media' and the John Campbell programme was the clincher - that and KB, they made it that the cops boss had no choice.

But there is now a deafening silence from the nay-sayers I notice:wait:

[Goblin]

But he's only been charged so far. Question is does he plea not guilty?

[McJim]

But there is now a deafening silence from the nay-sayers I notice:wait:

We are the knights who say.......'Nay!'





Nay! Nay!



Muwahahahahaha.

[GSVR]

Cop charged with two counts of dangerous driving, turns out the boys were NOT speeding

there ya go

Very easy to assume. I assumed they had just come round a reasonably tight blind corner. Turns out its a sweeper that you could take at insane speeds. But that doesn't mean they did.

[Quasievil]

Hoo-fuken-ray. Vindication.
Where did you find that out Q? And what do you say to 'what you know of the bikers?' now.


I know everyone.
I say the same thing, these guys always do stupid speeds on the trip, if they werent at this actual corner ,1/ I will be surprised and 2/ it would have only been for a moment.

I say the same

[MSTRS]

But interestingly enough, it doesn't say in that article that they were NOT speeding, it says no comment was being made about whether they were speeding.
Here's a hair ------ I've split it for you already

No, wait - that can't be right??
The nay-sayers said it wouldn't happen, they said the cop would get off it, they said there would be a whitewash and nothing would happen..
But there is now a deafening silence from the nay-sayers I notice
Come on Scummy...we all know they are just waiting for the bikers to be charged...


I say the same thing, these guys always do stupid speeds on the trip, if they werent at this actual corner ,1/ I will be surprised and 2/ it would have only been for a moment.
I say the same
'Knowing someone' and being there are not the same. Only the physical forensic evidence will prove one way or the other.
Not saying you are right or wrong - just that it is a leap to say they were speeding based on (alleged) past performance.

[spudchucka]

Come on Spud...

Wasn't me officer!

[merv]

Wasn't me officer!


... and Merry Christmas to you Spud and Scummy and all the other orificers that grace this site. I guess only some of you get Xmas day rostered off and to those that don't I hope you have another day soon to enjoy some merriment.

Spud if you are off are you going to Wanganui on Boxing Day?

[MSTRS]

Wasn't me officer!

:Oops::o Fixed. But you were thinking it. Right?

[spudchucka]

... and Merry Christmas to you Spud and Scummy and all the other orificers that grace this site. I guess only some of you get Xmas day rostered off and to those that don't I hope you have another day soon to enjoy some merriment.

Spud if you are off are you going to Wanganui on Boxing Day?

I'm working and on the wrong coast too.

[spudchucka]

:Oops::o Fixed. But you were thinking it. Right?

Well sometimes it is very frustrating, (knowing how the system works and seeing cops being disciplined / investigated for various things), when you tell people that a case like that will be investigated properly and the cop will be charged if found liable only to be offered back the usual tirade of "f&%ken cops look after their own" etc etc etc.

There have certainly been cases in the past where police have looked after their own but believe it or not today's police organisation is not like that at all. In fact its quite the opposite.

[MSTRS]

Well sometimes it is very frustrating, (knowing how the system works and seeing cops being disciplined / investigated for various things), when you tell people that a case like that will be investigated properly and the cop will be charged if found liable only to be offered back the usual tirade of "f&%ken cops look after their own" etc etc etc.

There have certainly been cases in the past where police have looked after their own but believe it or not today's police organisation is not like that at all. In fact its quite the opposite.

That is not the impression we get from the outside though. It took a long time for the cop involved to be charged, but no time at all for the Austrian woman. That in itself gives rise to the calls of 'looking after their own'.

[spudchucka]

Impressions can often be deceiving. The reason that it takes them longer to lay the charges is that they are investigating to a much higher level when the alleged offender is a cop.

[Jantar]

... they are investigating to a much higher level when the alleged offender is a cop.
There are many of us who wish that the investigation to a much higher level also occured when we are charged with some offenses.

[spudchucka]

There are many of us who wish that the investigation to a much higher level also occured when we are charged with some offenses.

Sure that's accepted but if you look at the motorcade incident as an example it was a case where they charged the drivers with dangerous driving yet it was investigated by a group of inspectors and superintendents.

That level of investigation of a straight forward dangerous driving charge in any other circumstances would be labelled as being over zealous.

[Nasty]

Finally some charges ... and they actually charged the cop!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4335673a10.html

[janno]

Yes, sounds like things are moving in the right direction.

From his Wellington Hospital bed at the weekend, Russell said police had found neither motorcyclist was at fault.

"It's great news and police seem to be taking an ethical approach to the investigation."

Anyone know these guys and been to see them. Ward numbers? It'd be quite nice to send them a card since they're in hosp over the silly season. Can someone give me postage details?

[MSTRS]

Impressions can often be deceiving. The reason that it takes them longer to lay the charges is that they are investigating to a much higher level when the alleged offender is a cop.


There are many of us who wish that the investigation to a much higher level also occured when we are charged with some offenses.

If that had been a member of the public, the ink on the ticket would have been dry before the car's engine was cold. The inference being that the party was known to be in the wrong from the get go, and that guilt or otherwise would be determined by the court.
I realise that things are different when cops are involved, but really, it is as simple as above.

[spudchucka]

it is as simple as above.

Not when the prosecuting agency is also your employer.

[Pex Adams]

I personally think its great to see that both riders are really on the improve. Which for everyone concerned is a great christmas present.

I'm sure the officer concerned, is thanking his lucky stars that its only dangerous driving he is being charged for.

[Ozzie]

Good Job!!!!!

[MD]

Anyone know these guys and been to see them. Ward numbers? It'd be quite nice to send them a card since they're in hosp over the silly season. Can someone give me postage details?

I have posted some updates on the Guys conditions through this thread. I have told them about the get well wishes from here.
They are in the Orthopaedic Clinic at Wellington Hospital, Newtown and would enjoy getting cards. Names are Brent Russell and marty Collins.

But please, as I mentioned before, if they don't know you from a bar of soap - don't visit them. Donate a bar of soap to charity instead.
Marty is in no shape for visitors and is facing a long recovery and will have permanent disabilities I would guess. He's usually out of it when I have visited (with their Wives permission by the way).

Great news that a decision has finally been made by the Investigator. Sighs of relief all round. No, I haven't received a ticket either as some speculated. How could they issue me one if I was never stopped, and therefore never identified by any means as the rider in question that the Cop was about to follow. * see below.

Sounds like the Investigator was thorough and probably waited to see if Marty could add anything - but he can't remember. There were no visible black rubber skid marks at the crash but apparently the Police can use some special light (I think that's what it was) to detect hard braking. Whatever, they did have an idea on the braking distance of the bikes before impact. They even checked what gears the bikes were in.

Interesting story in the Chch Press the other day about a local Doctor who claimed she would take a private complaint against the Officer if he wasn't found at fault of dangerous driving AND dismissed? Not sure why a Doctor would be on such a crusade? Maybe she attended the accident as well.

* new Police procedure - Followings
I was amused by the District Cops comments on TV that it wasn't a pursuit. He was turning to follow. I guess now that they have high speed pursuit guidelines they will need to draft high speed 'following' guidelines. They will also need to provide HP cars with dictionaries so they can determine during chases whether or not they are doing a 'pursuit ' or a 'following'

[Sanx]

Just out of interest (WT raised this point earlier today) how can the cop be charged with two counts of dangerous driving causing injury? Yes, there were two injuries, but there was only one act of dangerous driving.

[scumdog]

Just out of interest (WT raised this point earlier today) how can the cop be charged with two counts of dangerous driving causing injury? Yes, there were two injuries, but there was only one act of dangerous driving.

I'm only a country oik but we refer to it as "Dangerous Driving causing Injury X 2" - i.e. two injuries.

[ynot slow]

For what it's worth,I naively thought that after an accident there was descretion on the officers front of whether any charges could be layed.

Also correct me but if he is found guilty is that meaning he could loose his job,or is that for dic only,bearing in mind in Taranaki last year?the local community constable was off duty after playing golf,had a few beers and heard of an accident,grabbed his emergency kit(first aid etc)and went to the scene(10km or so)in the Awakino gorge.Once at the scene he was breath tested by an officer there and was over the limit.The guy who died was the guy the cop was drinking with after golf,another couple were badly injured.The cop was charged but got off the charge on special circumstances,much to the annoyance of some.I know people who played golf with him when in another Taranaki town and their views were yep he can partake in a few beers (off duty),but in a small town it's a bit different as the sole officer when is he not on duty?

It does sound like a rule for them and us,mind you we get ticketed on the spot and fight it in court if we believe we are not guilty.

[Patrick]

Dangerous causing injury x 2... Better than most wanted on here... most wanted careless causing injury. Good to see that the bikers remain on the road to recovery and might not get anything more "unpleasant" from the department.

Can guarantee that this investigation left no stone unturned and final decisions went around the bosses offices, something that does not happen to Joe Public.

Quite right about the one act of driving but as two were injured they are seperate charges of the injury to that person as a result of the dangerous driving.

As for the other comments about visual speed, no it is not "accurate." But when your job is being out there looking at 1000's of cars in a 8-10hour shift, each day, every day, it doesn't take too long for your eye to become accustomed as to who to pick out in the traffic... which is why I can get so many with detectors.

Had a radio DJ come out on patrol with me, live on air, and he wanted me to "guess the speed of oncoming cars" then check it against the radar. Was dubious and thought it was a fit up but felt confident enough to give it a go.

Was only a few Kms out each time most within 5 kmph... But hey, it aint accurate...

[Nonbeliever]

it's not the $$ they say, it's the road toll, it's too high.

HAHA as we all know that's a load of shit. FFS TV1 news is uncovering dope dealers selling shit to schoolkids from their front yard while the cops are out getting "crims" that break the law by going 10km faster than they should.

More people die in this country from other preventable causes (smoking etc etc) but they don't outlaw those activities.

[MSTRS]

Had a radio DJ come out on patrol with me, live on air, and he wanted me to "guess the speed of oncoming cars" then check it against the radar. Was dubious and thought it was a fit up but felt confident enough to give it a go.

Was only a few Kms out each time most within 5 kmph... But hey, it aint accurate...

Could you do the same with a bike viewed coming straight at you, and have perhaps 1 second to 'calculate' it's speed? I don't doubt it is possible in normal circumstances to do so for a car...but there is a little matter of points of reference (ie triangulation) missing in the bike case.
Still, you are right about the charge level, we should all be more than happy with that. It is more than we thought might happen.

[Deano]

FFS TV1 news is uncovering dope dealers selling shit to schoolkids from their front yard while the cops are out getting "crims" that break the law by going 10km faster than they should.


The guy from Methcon (ex cop) tells people at seminars that the revenue from traffic infringements is used to fund the raiding of P-Labs, cause an investigation and prosecution costs so much money. He said that in Northland, Police knew of at least half a dozen P-Labs bubbling away but did not have the resources to tackle them.

Just what I heard - don't turn this into a 'messenger bashing' thread eh ?:laugh:

[rwh]

The guy from Methcon (ex cop) tells people at seminars that the revenue from traffic infringements is used to fund the raiding of P-Labs, cause an investigation and prosecution costs so much money. He said that in Northland, Police knew of at least half a dozen P-Labs bubbling away but did not have the resources to tackle them.

Interesting - I thought the cops didn't get any fine revenue? That it all went into the consolidated fund?

Richard

[Deano]

Interesting - I thought That it all went into the consolidated fund?

Richard

Probably does first - then gets redistributed via various mechanisms and beauraucratic processes, chewing up a lot of it along the way.:oi-grr:

[MD]

Health update #...I'm having a few beers right now to celebrate a positive visit with the injured Riders.

Brent will be going home tomorrow wheelchair bond but no more hospital bed.

I was pleasantly surprised today to see Marty has bounced back something wicked! There were days over the first couple of weeks that the Docs expected him to die or come out with permanent brain damage. He was totally lucid today and mentally back to normal for the first time that I have been visiting. He has regained most of his sight in the eye that looked dead to me when he was in ICU.
Both Lads have had their last operations with internal plates & pins and plaster casts now - much better than those external frames.

I just can't find the words to say how happy today made me feel.

They got a nice get well letter from a Blenheim woman who was soon on the scene with her son. She commented that she saw me heading away [unbeknown]from the accident scene "winding effortlessly through the gorge" She shed some interesting insights from bystanders at the scene on the Officer's behaviour, and the views of witnesses there, about the bad choice for a place to turn around.
To date the lads have not heard from the Officer involved but have had very supportive contact from the Senior Police/Investigators. Who have reiterated that all their enquiries show that the riders were not speeding.

[homer]

Interesting , I htought they all sat round the boiler when they had to burn the weed


Yeah ive been drinking and out on the gn250
Just cant go off the propery ,but you can go round our place so i can still ride

[Patrick]

Could you do the same with a bike viewed coming straight at you, and have perhaps 1 second to 'calculate' it's speed? I don't doubt it is possible in normal circumstances to do so for a car...but there is a little matter of points of reference (ie triangulation) missing in the bike case.
Still, you are right about the charge level, we should all be more than happy with that. It is more than we thought might happen.


Usually... as there is other traffic in the vacinity... but again, can be easily done... Bikes seem to elude my radar or pass the attitude test better than some for some reason..

Ahhhh... the silence of the naysayers is deafening... for a change....


Health update #...I'm having a few beers right now to celebrate a positive visit with the injured Riders..........

To date the lads have not heard from the Officer involved but have had very supportive contact from the Senior Police/Investigators. Who have reiterated that all their enquiries show that the riders were not speeding.

Unfortunately, he will have been "directed" at a guess not to approach or comment, directly or indirectly, by the hierachy... It would be seen by the media as him trying to influence a better outcome for himself...


Interesting , I htought they all sat round the boiler when they had to burn the weed

Nah... the diesel and shitty old tyres ruin a perfectly good sesh.......

[scumdog]

Ahhhh... the silence of the naysayers is deafening... for a change....


Hey! I said that yonks ago on this thread - and it's still true, even if there have been a few half-arsed attempts by some.:zzzz::yes:

[SDU]

That's great news MD. I hope they continue to surprise you & heal in leaps & bounds.

[bell]

...over the first couple of weeks that the Docs expected him to die or come out with permanent brain damage. Both Lads have had their last operations with internal plates & pins and plaster casts now - much better than those external frames.

Thanks for keeping the updates coming MD.

I ask myself somedays when I go for a ride whether the risks (and some of the potential outcomes highlighted above) are worth it.

I've just returned from a week of touring the SI and marvelled at the lunacy of some other riders' habits. On more than one occasion I had to take defensive action to avoid a head-on as there was a bike and/or rider well and truly over my side of the line. I'm no racer-wannabe and consider that my cornering lines were safe and defensive but it just wasn't enough on a few occasions. It is all too easy to imagine how a wide line into a corner could "interfere" with one's longevity.

These two fellas have been to hell and back, with years of associated shit still to come. May they (and their friends and families) find the strength to overcome these hurdles and find some peace and prosperity in the years ahead.

[John W]

Hi there

Ive been quietly watching this thread and was wondering if there had been a decision made by the Independant commission looking into this affair.

An update on the riders would be great.

Finally, did the Police financially the riders in this incident. I recall one of them not having Income Protection Insurance and ACC will welch out any possible way.

[Ducky848]

I was driving thru the buller gorge last week wondered if there have been any developments regarding this........

[Skyryder]

I was driving thru the buller gorge last week wondered if there have been any developments regarding this........

http://www.stuff.co.nz/AAMB6/aamsz=300x44_MULTILINK/4579369a12855.html

[MSTRS]

'...He was remanded at large to a callover on August 15.'
And?

[unrealone]

'...He was remanded at large to a callover on August 15.'
And?

Yea I'm quite interested to find out what has happened to this cop and the riders as well.

[MD]

The trial is set for late March.

I presume the PCA can't release their findings until after the court proceedings. The officer retired at the end of 2008.

The Riders have recovered now. As best you can with smashed pelvises, leaving them with noticeable limps when walking.

[Drtylilman]

I hope that cop gets whats coming to him. They need to know that they are not above the law, they are there to up hold it. It'a unfortunate that there are so many dirty cops in the force.

[Stan]

It'a unfortunate that there are so many dirty cops in the force.

Steady on. The guy might be a bad driver but that doesn't make him dirty.

[Ducky848]

^^^^I found another thread running on this under general discussion and more up to date, cheers.

[NordieBoy]

The Riders have recovered now. As best you can with smashed pelvises, leaving them with noticeable limps when walking.

My bro dosn't walk with a limp.
Pelvis smashed by a cop car pulling out in front of the Nelson Road Touring Club convoy outside Greymouth some years ago.

[spudchucka]

I hope that cop gets whats coming to him. They need to know that they are not above the law, they are there to up hold it. It'a unfortunate that there are so many dirty cops in the force.

Yeah, they should be made to shower more often.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, they should be made to shower more often.

Hah! Funny how making a terrible driving decision can make you a dirty cop eh!!??

[skidMark]

Hah! Funny how making a terrible driving decision can make you a dirty cop eh!!??


We must all be dirty bikers then <_<

[Sully60]

We must all be dirty bikers then <_<

I'd be driving the wheelie bin truck!

[MD]

For those wondering. The trial is set for next week and expected to last 4 to 5 days.

TV coverage is expected.

[doc]

Hah! Funny how making a terrible driving decision can make you a dirty cop eh!!??

Bit hard when you make a cockup at work you end up in court. Mind you I believe you have dirty neighbours.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bit hard when you make a cockup at work you end up in court. Mind you I believe you have dirty neighbours.

Mate...that's right outside my apartment! He's not only dirty...he's well stinky too!

[98tls]

I hope that cop gets whats coming to him. They need to know that they are not above the law, they are there to up hold it. It'a unfortunate that there are so many dirty cops in the force. I hope that one day you grow up enough to recoil with embarrassment at the fact that you posted that shit.:pinch:

[terbang]

I hope that cop gets whats coming to him. They need to know that they are not above the law, they are there to up hold it. It'a unfortunate that there are so many dirty cops in the force.

I dont think this cop saw himself above the law and the chances of him being dirty are slim. But clearly he's not the sharpest knife in the draw and (as a professional road user) he made a stupid mistake. Yup mistakes are easy to make (though some of us can die as a result) and if you and I made the same error, then we would be nicked and face the consequences of our stupidity in court. Just as I expect for this cop.

[Skyryder]

Didn't the cop initially try and blame the riders. Seem to recall some comment after the crash that it was their fault.



Skyryder

[scumdog]

Didn't the cop initially try and blame the riders. Seem to recall some comment after the crash that it was their fault.



Skyryder


What a surprise - trying to blame somebody else!:shifty:

Sounds just like todays society!!:doh:

[Nasty]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2285426/Officer-on-trial-for-three-point-turn-crash

Lookie here finally on trial!!!

[FJRider]

Perhaps a fair trial.... then hang him...

[NordieBoy]

Sounds like the prosecution is not going to be a white-wash and the defence seems to be targetting the speeding rider as the "cause".

[Badjelly]

Sounds like the prosecution is not going to be a white-wash and the defence seems to be targetting the speeding rider as the "cause".

The one the policeman was turning to chase?

[NordieBoy]

The one the policeman was turning to chase?

That's the one.
They're trying to get him to say he fanged it and he says he held the same speed.

[Badjelly]

Sounds like the prosecution is not going to be a white-wash and the defence seems to be targetting the speeding rider as the "cause".


The one the policeman was turning to chase?


That's the one.

What on Earth do his actions have to do with the policeman's guilt or innocence on the offense?

[NordieBoy]

What on Earth do his actions have to do with the policeman's guilt or innocence on the offense?

That the accident was not the officers fault.
Seems like they're trying to shift the blame onto the speeding bike.

My brother has been in the gallery watching the case (he got hit by a cop years ago in a similar situation).

[HenryDorsetCase]

that the accident was not the officers fault.
Seems like they're trying to shift the blame onto the allegedly speeding bike.

My brother has been in the gallery watching the case (he got hit by a cop years ago in a similar situation).

fixed for you

[NordieBoy]

fixed for you

He admits he was doing about $120 odd worth of alleged speeding.

[nsrpaul]

it seems to me the point is, sure the cop made a cock up and people do. BUT if I or YOU were to make the same cock up then it would be a no brainer and our licence etc would have been long ago

speeding bikes? headline in the local paper was all about the "expert" being 95% sure they were doing between 106-116 ks per hr:whocares:

seems to have little relevance when they were still doing 60 on impact, and then theres the real no brainer, what if it was a truck!!!!!!!!!

[scumdog]

it seems to me the point is, sure the cop made a cock up and people do. BUT if I or YOU were to make the same cock up then it would be a no brainer and our licence etc would have been long ago

speeding bikes? headline in the local paper was all about the "expert" being 95% sure they were doing between 106-116 ks per hr:whocares:

seems to have little relevance when they were still doing 60 on impact, and then theres the real no brainer, what if it was a truck!!!!!!!!!

What if a zeppelin had fallen on him??

[nsrpaul]

What if a zeppelin had fallen on him??

what if he had admitted liability at the scene?

[scumdog]

what if he had admitted liability at the scene?

Zacly.

The world don't run on 'whatifs'

[BMWST?]

Sounds like the prosecution is not going to be a white-wash and the defence seems to be targetting the speeding rider as the "cause".

a factor not the cause,the cop didnt HAVE to do a three point turn where he did

[NordieBoy]

Defence lawyer...

Bridgman was carrying out the turn on a clear stretch of road in favourable driving conditions, Mr Barkle said, when his car was struck by two middle-aged men reliving their youth in "biker's heaven", going far too fast and outside the law.

[RantyDave]

The world don't run on 'whatifs'
You mean, like, whatif the cop had engaged his brain before chucking a U'ey? Or whatif light could bend around corners so the bikers could see what he was doing. Or whatif the cops, in general, as a collective were able to admit that their otherwise unemployable power trippy little arses occasionally made mistakes?

But you're right. It doesn't work like that. And as a consequence two bikers who were damn nearly killed (and would have had they been, y'know, properly speeding) are now being blamed for a f'off huge accident caused by a cop fucking up. Because it was a fuck up. But it was also only a fuck up.

Not that I expect you to understand, of course. As you were, Officer Gatso.

Dave

[HenryDorsetCase]

many years ago when I was a public servant, the most useful skill I learned when driving one of their cars was the "handbrake turn". We became quite adept at these over time (and the odd bent steering rack "Dunno, it was like that when I got in it, I think someone has hit a kerb in it and not reported it....")

Useful skill for all motorists including the po po to know?

[NordieBoy]

many years ago when I was a public servant, the most useful skill I learned when driving one of their cars was the "handbrake turn". We became quite adept at these over time (and the odd bent steering rack "Dunno, it was like that when I got in it, I think someone has hit a kerb in it and not reported it....")

Useful skill for all motorists including the po po to know?

Handbrakies are not socially responsible as they can create noise pollution and black marks.

[terbang]

Good and bad things coming out of these cops in court covering their mates arses (for driving like a bloody idiot).
Good: the chances are slightly less for teenage girls to be baton raped.
Bad: there is now a better window of opportunity for scottish tourists to be murdered by angry youths.

[Rev DJ]

Guilty as charged... the jury has returned a guilty verdict to the charges of dangerous driving - sentencing is at the end of May. DJ

[RantyDave]

Yeah, guilty! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2301604/Police-three-point-turn-guilty-verdict

(article includes pic of crash site - may cause anger)

Dave

[Okey Dokey]

I'm so pleased that the jury returned a guilty verdict.

[Winter]

I have to say i did actually yell 'yesss! loudly in the car when i heard on the radio he was found guilty!

I bet that is such a relief to those riders and their familys.

[twotyred]

Guilty as charged... the jury has returned a guilty verdict to the charges of dangerous driving - sentencing is at the end of May. DJ

result!

here's a link to the 4 min National radio audio piece this morning including the defence lawyers comments,as mentioned by Nordieboy (beat me to it!)

http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20090330-0747-Jury_to_decide_U-turn_cop_case-048.mp3

[scumdog]

Guilty as charged... the jury has returned a guilty verdict to the charges of dangerous driving - sentencing is at the end of May. DJ

Oh no, how can this be?:weep:

Where was the great white-wash, the old school tie, the closing ranks to protect their own..yadda..yadda...yadda......oh calamity, oh my, how could this happen????:rolleyes:

[idb]

What a f%^&ing cover-up!!!

[scumdog]

Or whatif the cops, in general, as a collective were able to admit that their otherwise unemployable power trippy little arses occasionally made mistakes?

Not that I expect you to understand, of course. As you were, Officer Gatso.

Dave

Never having fitted into the above 'otherwise unemployable power trippy little arses' catagory I'll just have to take your word that somehow you know such people exist....:shifty:

And make mistakes...

[NordieBoy]

Oh no, how can this be?:weep:

Where was the great white-wash, the old school tie, the closing ranks to protect their own..yadda..yadda...yadda......oh calamity, oh my, how could this happen????:rolleyes:

The mob got to the jury.

[nsrpaul]

The mob got to the jury.

good job too

[pritch]

What a f%^&ing cover-up!!!

Eh? What were they covering up, the fact that he was innocent???

[rwh]

Guilty as charged... the jury has returned a guilty verdict to the charges of dangerous driving - sentencing is at the end of May. DJ

Sounds like the right verdict from my understanding of the case.

Anyone know if the bikers were charged as well? Is there another case to come?

Richard

[munterk6]

That dickhead :Police: that tried to kill the two bikers in the Buller Gorge a while back is FINALLY gonna be sentenced on Tuesday 26th May...
waiting and watching .......:spanking:

Theres a pic of the wanker in my sig. FUCKING TOSSER!!

[doc]

That dickhead :Police: that tried to kill the two bikers in the Buller Gorge FUCKING TOSSER!!

He didn't do a very good job did he. FFS he made a mistake. I'd feel the same as your post if I was involved in the incident. But I wasn't. Just another cop bashing thread. aye :chase:

[munterk6]

nah, not 'just another' cop bashing thread....
one particular cop needs to be seen as he is, a self righteous authoritarian that needs to wake up and smell the gang member in the next cell. :nono:
Anyways, it will be interesting to see the outcome.
Think about it, it COULD HAVE BEEN you that was involved, it could have been me, any one of us.

[The Baron]

Yes the cop made a mistake - a very bad one for a trained professional driver BUT he blamed the bikers and admitted no responsiblity whatsoever.

Thats the difference in this case..

Just my humble opinion..

[Cary]

That dickhead :Police: that tried to kill the two bikers in the Buller Gorge a while back is FINALLY gonna be sentenced on Tuesday 26th May...
waiting and watching .......:spanking:[/SIZE]

F**k all will happen, all cops know they are special :tugger:

Judge i'll say 'well you were just doing your job' slap on the wrist & back to work next week......

[firefighter]

Yes the cop made a mistake - a very bad one for a trained professional driver BUT he blamed the bikers and admitted no responsiblity whatsoever.

Thats the difference in this case..

Just my humble opinion..

I think you will find he has been told what to say, not just saying it of his own accord.....there are legal implications some of you do not understand when you work for a government organisation......:mellow:


F**k all will happen, all cops know they are special :tugger:

Riiiigggghhhtttt. You obviously have never been friends with or actually know a police officer outside of the uniform......my cop friends are the same as everyone else, they just wear a different uniform at work.<_<


Judge i'll say 'well you were just doing your job' slap on the wrist & back to work next week......

Yeah, you are obviously ignorant in regards to our legal system, since when did we as New Zealanders ever, ever give the cops a fair go?
They get shat on and absolutely torn to bits over things far less serious, even when it blatantly was'nt has'nt been their fault, or it's a rediculous claim, like that asswipe that was pepper sprayed, you see the video you can see it was nothing at all worth a second glace, never mind the trials and suspension.
He will probably get the book thrown at him worse than any of the more deserving rapists and mongrels roaming around.

News Flash for you....

He was a cop doing his job, which he is ORDERED to do, he made a mistake, a very bad one, AND has probably been ordered to NOT admit liability....

[Cary]

Riiiigggghhhtttt. You obviously have never been friends with or actually know a police officer outside of the uniform......my cop friends are the same as everyone else, they just wear a different uniform at work.<_<

Yeah, you are obviously ignorant in regards to our legal system, since when did we as New Zealanders ever, ever give the cops a fair go?
They get shat on and absolutely torn to bits over things far less serious, even when it blatantly was'nt has'nt been their fault, or it's a rediculous claim, like that asswipe that was pepper sprayed, you see the video you can see it was nothing at all worth a second glace, never mind the trials and suspension.
He will probably get the book thrown at him worse than any of the more deserving rapists and mongrels roaming around.

He was a cop doing his job, which he is ORDERED to do, he made a mistake, a very bad one, AND has probably been ordered to NOT admit liability....

You think if you did that, their family would say you 'just made a mistake'......

I have the utmost respect for the POLICE they do get a hard time and in my opnion should be able to shoot most offenders, it's their poor cousins the traffic cops i can't stand. Not the indiviuals, the system.

Can you tell me cops who own bikes don't exceed the speed limit YEAH RIGHT bloody hypocrites.

More power to the police I say, traffic cops can go F**K themselves.

[Maha]

That dickhead :Police: that tried to kill the two bikers in the Buller Gorge a while back is FINALLY gonna be sentenced on Tuesday 26th May...
waiting and watching .......:spanking:



Tried??
You say as if there was intent?
That would have brought on an 'attempted murder' charge surely??

[Badjelly]

The Moral Highground Is Currently Full Please Try Again Later

Always room for one more!

[Maha]

Always room for one more!

And that would be??
I have all the sigs turned off, cant see any, gets rid of all the crap, even that one...:laugh:

[thepom]

So lets see the justice..........man gets charged and found guilty of flicking his child,s ear and the people who commited murder to the twins?:2guns:

[Shadows]

I was following a mufti cop on the bike the other night when a car came around the bend in the other direction with no lights on.

He pulled over to do a U-turn so I pulled in behind him, not wanting to be taken out by any overzealous maneouvre.

Confused the fuck out of him, that did.

[nadroj]

Sentencing today! It was on the lunchtime news on one but I only caught the tail end of it. Anyone hear the sentence?

[nadroj]

Anyone hear the sentence? I missed it on the lunchtime one news...

[Marmoot]

He was a cop doing his job, which he is ORDERED to do, he made a mistake, a very bad one, AND has probably been ordered to NOT admit liability....

Exactly the point. People need to realise this is not about one cop's mistake. This is a systemic failure on the government (well, the previous government) to ensure the priority of policing: security, safety, enforcement.
Over the last 8 years enforcement gradually came first, followed by safety, and security.

Someone needs to get the direction right once again if they are serious about NZ.

[NighthawkNZ]

Anyone hear the sentence? I missed it on the lunchtime one news...
assume you mean this
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5598183/uturn-cop-ordered-pay-60000-reparation/

[Beemer]

Very pleased to hear he has to pay reparation - not that $30,000 per rider will make up for it. At least it's better than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket and it does prove he was in the wrong, no matter what.

[Hitcher]

That sounds fair.

[James Deuce]

He got hammered. That's deeply unfair.

For a similar accident with injuries that have long term implications the dude who hurt me had to pay $600. Albeit 17 years ago.

There's definitely a message in the punishment but it is hugely disproportionate with what a "Joe Public" would have been handed in the same circumstances.

[Fatjim]

I wonder who'll pay the 60k? I'm not sure that level of fine would be made unless

a. Someone like his employer, or his union/association are paying.
b. It's agreed blood money to keep him from doing time. (not sure prison time is up for grabs on this offence).

[vifferman]

He got hammered. That's deeply unfair.
It's OK, James.
He can simply do what many criminals ordered to pay reparation do: ignore it and default.
But yes, I agree with you - it does seem rather harsh. It's a not inappropriate amount for the victims to be awarded (in fact, probably insignificant in that it won't undo the damage to their bodies or lives), but $60k is an enormous burden for a retired person.

[RantyDave]

Title sums it up. Tony "but you were speeding" Bridgman has been ordered to pay $30k each (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2443703/Traffic-cop-to-pay-each-victim-30-000) to the two bikers he nearly killed 18 months ago. No doubt this is nowhere near the real cost to the lads in question but $60k has got to be a pretty severe kick in the arse if you're a retired cop.

Appeal?

Dave

[Mully]

100 hours community service and disqualified for 12 months.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2443703/Traffic-cop-to-pay-each-victim-30-000

[The Baron]

I for one am pleased with the judgement of the court.

[Winter]

Makes me smile. I hope those riders are ok, and I hope they find a way to enjoy that money.

Also, I hope the cop can stand up now, and just say Sorry.. sometimes thats all the victims want.

[MSTRS]

Now that sounds like a proper, fair punishment.

[dogsnbikes]

Ouch!!!! of course there will be appeal/s glad too see that its not been sterotype that bikers are always speeding and wrong bling for judge and jury....Just shows no matter what your status on the food chain is when your wrong your wrong!!!!!!

[Hitcher]

He got hammered. That's deeply unfair.

On reflection I agree. Ordinary citizens would have had the ability to insure themselves against such an event.

[JayRacer37]

Now that sounds like a proper, fair punishment.

Who on earth (or KB) would have thunk it!?!

[Finn]

That's a much bigger fine than a civilian would of got for u-turning causing an accident. Wonder why?

[3L4NS1R]

That's a much bigger fine than a civilian would of got for u-turning causing an accident. Wonder why?

because cops should know better?

[MSTRS]

That's a much bigger fine than a civilian would of got for u-turning causing an accident. Wonder why?

Not just because he was a cop who should have known better...he also denied any wrong-doing and tried to use his 'status' to put the blame on the bikers. Long before the lawyers got involved too...he tried to get an admittance of speeding at the scene.

[Winston001]

Steady on chaps, the order is $30,000 reparation each, not personal compensation. So that will go to their insurance companies assuming he is able to come up with the dosh.

His penalty so far as the law is concerned is the community service and disqualification.

[Grahameeboy]

Well at least a decision has been made but seems a high payment compared with a civilian offence.I know I will get attacked for this but I still feel a bit sorry for the cop...he was doing his job and made a mistake in the heat of the moment.At the end of the day the Justice system has worked although I just hope that this was not an example case.I would have thought the Police Vehicle Insurance would cover the $60,000??

[peasea]

He's an arsehole; they should lock him up after he fronts up with the cash.

(Along with every other fuckin' dirtbag pig who has used their position to evade punishment for wrongdoing. How many drink driving charges have been side-stepped in recent years?)

[Grahameeboy]

Not just because he was a cop who should have known better...he also denied any wrong-doing and tried to use his 'status' to put the blame on the bikers. Long before the lawyers got involved too...he tried to get an admittance of speeding at the scene.

and how many civilian drivers would do the same...he is a human being still...it's the old flight or fight scenario.

[Grahameeboy]

He's an arsehole; they should lock him up after he fronts up with the cash.

(Along with every other fuckin' dirtbag pig who has used their position to evade punishment for wrongdoing. How many drink driving charges have been side-stepped in recent years?)

Making a mistake does not make you an arshole Mr P...sorry

[LBD]

Steady on chaps, the order is $30,000 reparation each, not personal compensation. So that will go to their insurance companies assuming he is able to come up with the dosh.

And would it be tax deductable?

[peasea]

Making a mistake does not make you an arshole Mr P...sorry

It's not about the mistake old bean, it's using your uniform to cover it up that sucks. Everyone makes mistakes.

[MSTRS]

Steady on chaps, the order is $30,000 reparation each, not personal compensation. So that will go to their insurance companies assuming he is able to come up with the dosh.

His penalty so far as the law is concerned is the community service and disqualification.

I doubt that. Read 'reparation' in the same vein as 'compensation'. The insurance repairs are between the insurance co/s and the NZ Police.

[peasea]

There is another instance of this just about to go to court, so I can't say too much, but it's the same old same old. Cop fucks up, gets mates to cover etc. I'll fill you in when the dust settles.

[James Deuce]

I don't actually agree the premise that the cop got off at all. He's been dealt to far more viciously than you or I would have been.

[Grahameeboy]

It's not about the mistake old bean, it's using your uniform to cover it up that sucks. Everyone makes mistakes.

It is a mistake be it physical or mental...he took the fight route...we will just have to share the "Love" and agree to disagree.....old geezer

[Grahameeboy]

There is another instance of this just about to go to court, so I can't say too much, but it's the same old same old. Cop fucks up, gets mates to cover etc. I'll fill you in when the dust settles.

...........................

[Winston001]

I wonder who'll pay the 60k? I'm not sure that level of fine would be made unless

a. Someone like his employer, or his union/association are paying....


The event occurred while he was working so you'd expect the NZ Police to pay ie. you and I. But they might not have to if his employment agreement says he isn't covered if convicted. Government agencies are too big to carry insurance.


I doubt that. Read 'reparation' in the same vein as 'compensation'. The insurance repairs are between the insurance co/s and the NZ Police.

Ah - not exactly. One of the clauses in an insurance contract is "the right of subrogation" which means your insurance co has the right to pursue the other party in your name and recover the loss.

So reparation payable to the riders belongs to the insurers.

You guys are confusing compensation with reparation. Often a fine is imposed with half or all of it going to the victim where a victim has been hurt. That is compensation for pain and distress. Usually $500 - 2000.

Reparation is quasi-damages and is only for actual loss.

If the reparation had not been ordered then the riders insurance companies would have sued this cop in a civil case.

[Beemer]

It's OK, James.
He can simply do what many criminals ordered to pay reparation do: ignore it and default.
But yes, I agree with you - it does seem rather harsh. It's a not inappropriate amount for the victims to be awarded (in fact, probably insignificant in that it won't undo the damage to their bodies or lives), but $60k is an enormous burden for a retired person.

How long had he been a cop for? How much superannuation (with generous employer contributions) had he built up? Sorry, but I'm finding it hard to have much sympathy for him. Yes, he did make a mistake, but then he lied about it, and he's probably far better off than most of us. Reparation would have to take into account his financial circumstances otherwise it's a waste of time. I would imagine the judge would have to have known he could afford it or he would not have imposed it.

[James Deuce]

Everyone lies when they do something like this.

Everyone tries to get out of it.

This is the first time I've ever seen a reparation order of that level for a road incident.

I'm not expressing sympathy, I'm quite aghast at the injustice inherent in the NZ justice system particularly in regard to how punishment for RTIs is dished out.

I feel quite sure that the majority of NZers would have an excuse that suited the circumstance and that any non-Police person would have been unlucky to be hit with a $3k fine for that particular accident. Probably only a 3 month ban too.

[far queue]

Everyone lies when they do something like this.

Everyone tries to get out of it.Please don't tar everyone with that brush thanks. That may well be how you would react in this situation, but I would like to think that most people would be honest about it. Maybe that's naive thinking these days, but certainly I would feel guilty had I caused something like this and would do the right thing by telling the truth.

[Beemer]

Please don't tar everyone with that brush thanks. That may well be how you would react in this situation, but I would like to think that most people would be honest about it. Maybe that's naive thinking these days, but certainly I would feel guilty had I caused something like this and would do the right thing by telling the truth.

Agreed - while most of us would try and get out of it by finding anything the other person may have done to contribute to the accident (basic human nature I reckon), if it came down to it, most of us would not lie. I have only been involved in one accident and as it was my fault, I owned up and paid (well, the insurance company did) for the damage.

[James Deuce]

Please don't tar everyone with that brush thanks. That may well be how you would react in this situation, but I would like to think that most people would be honest about it. Maybe that's naive thinking these days, but certainly I would feel guilty had I caused something like this and would do the right thing by telling the truth.

It's near 30 years of riding bikes and driving cars that makes me think like this. I haven't caused an accident yet, and despite being put in ICU, theatre and the spinal unit, not one person responsible ever manned up in court.

Even when I've been hit from behind it's been my "fault" for stopping too quickly.

People have cried, apologised, promised to help make things better, but after a couple of days reflection, it's always ended up my fault.

You are being extremely naive thinking that people will own anything that they do on the road. It's never their fault.

Accidents where I've been involved with helping the injured party and have witnessed the accident have ended up with me in court having my witness statement ripped to shreds. It is the rare event when people fully own the responsibility of causing injury or death for another person.

[scumdog]

I don't actually agree the premise that the cop got off at all. He's been dealt to far more viciously than you or I would have been.

Yup, where are the nay-sayers and 'whitewash' criers now??

[Winston001]

Yup, where are the nay-sayers and 'whitewash' criers now??

NAY NAY and hand me that bucket and brush while you're at it..... :devil2:

[Winston001]

...Reparation would have to take into account his financial circumstances otherwise it's a waste of time. I would imagine the judge would have to have known he could afford it or he would not have imposed it.

Good point and I'm sure you are right. The judge will have had some information saying he can pay.




I'm quite aghast at the injustice inherent in the NZ justice system particularly in regard to how punishment for RTIs is dished out.

...any non-Police person would have been unlucky to be hit with a $3k fine for that particular accident.

Well said. However no fine was imposed. None. The money is to repay the damage caused by the accident. Quite separate from a fine.

What we need to know is whether the ex-cop pays up himself or the police ie. the taxpayer fronts up. Makes a big difference. The fact that no fine was imposed suggests he's going to have to pay personally - where are our resident rozzers when we need 'em?? :Police:

[James Deuce]

Well said. However no fine was imposed. None. The money is to repay the damage caused by the accident. Quite separate from a fine.



I do understand that, and that is why I was making the distinction. Fines seem to be on an optional payment basis in NZ.

I have a feeling that if the reparation isn't covered by the "other means" someone will be selling their house or taking out a mortgage to pay the reparations.

Net worth and ability to pay are different things.

[scumdog]

The fact that no fine was imposed suggests he's going to have to pay personally - where are our resident rozzers when we need 'em?? :Police:

As he has not been a member of :Police: for a bit I guess he will be paying.

(probably out of his retirement money - which the tax-payer had been paying into for many years - a right conundrum eh?)

[caseye]

His sentence 100hrs community work and a fine of some hundreds is not that harsh.
The reparations are Outrageous, no ordinarty motorist would have received such an order.
This guy(a Police Officer these days even if he had until 2000 or so when the two services were assimilated been a T/O) we are told he lied about the riders approach speed in order to deflect the blame from himself.
if true then I despise and dislike him intensly, him, not all Police Officers who can and do make mistakes on a daily basis, theres lots of them and most are honest hard working guys or gals making our lives safer, while trying their level best not to screw up and lose their lifes ambition, to serve,protect and help their fellow citizens as Police officers.
In this case based on what I've heard, read and seen the sentence is much higher than any ordinary citizen would get but under the circumstances I feel no sympathy for this ex officer, the poor bloody riders , yes. Get well soon guys and get back aboard a bike asap.

[Fatjim]

I don't think the payments too much, its just that this should happen to everyone who does this. That's why its unfair.

But the copper got snapped lying. If he had not resigned, he would have lost his job for that I would hope. If he had fessed up, said he made an error of judgement, I would not have been against him keeping his job, if indeed he wanted it after this mess. Indeed, he may have got a lesser judgement if he had, although 100 hours of community service?.... who ever does their hours?

As an aside, what really pisses me of, is that coppers have this credibility in court that a person presumed innocent does not. For once, the veneer of honesty has been exposed. However, I doubt it will stop the long standing traditions of "convict at all costs".

[far queue]

It's near 30 years of riding bikes and driving cars that makes me think like this.I also have 30 years riding, driving, cycling experience.


You are being extremely naive thinking that people will own anything that they do on the road. It's never their fault.Not at all. I've been hit by cars 3 times while cycling, all their fault. The first apologised and admitted he was in the wrong, then days later changed his mind and didn't want to know me. The second apologised and admitted he was in the wrong. I reported it to the police anyway just in case he changed his mind, and the cop concerned prosecuted him, despite my asking him not to at this point. I felt bad for him as he had just done something dumb but had apologised for it and went out of his way to help me after the accident. The third also apologised and admitted he was in the wrong and followed up with me over the following week, ensuring I was OK and providing quality replacement parts for my bike.


Accidents where I've been involved with helping the injured party and have witnessed the accident have ended up with me in court having my witness statement ripped to shreds.The lawyer is as much to blame here as anyone. I feel that mostly they are just out to line their own pockets and get their client off regardless. Admittedly it's their job to get their clients off, but I do often wonder at their morals, and off course the client could plead guilty, but that wouldn't be the lawyers advice. Sorry Winston.


It is the rare event when people fully own the responsibility of causing injury or death for another person.
Your experiences and mine are clearly different.

[James Deuce]

I think our experiences have been quite similar.

[Hitcher]

He's an arsehole; they should lock him up after he fronts up with the cash.

(Along with every other fuckin' dirtbag pig who has used their position to evade punishment for wrongdoing. How many drink driving charges have been side-stepped in recent years?)

Hand on a second, how does this sentence handed down today align with your claim that this former officer "used the position to evade punishment for wrongdoing"?

[RantyDave]

The reparations are Outrageous, no ordinarty motorist would have received such an order.
This is quite obviously true and, I think, makes it obvious that it's the taxpayer that's picking this one up. Presumably his insurance situation was made clear in court - i.e. the rozzers are going to pay - and in handing out a non-trivial (but still not anywhere near large enough) order for reparations the judge may have ensured that the words "don't do what this cunt did" are added to Police driver training from now on. Ultimately he (the judge) may have saved the life of the next rider to come round a blind corner and find himself radar'd instead of buried in the side of a Holden - and for this we should thank him.

I also wonder if the legal distinction between reparations and a fine is one of the more pertinent points here. Not being a lawyer, or in possession of any NZ police employment contracts I couldn't tell you in what way though.

Dave

[caseye]

Well put RantyDave, I'd like to think that the words " don't do what this c..t did do" go in the manual for Police drivers in the future too. Not sure that it's the taxpayer or the Police picking up the reparations tab, something tells me it'll be the ex copper and I don't have a problem with this under the circumstances.
Yes this is the sort of punishment(compensation= paid to the victims, not reparation= goes to courts insurance co's etc but bugger all to the victims) that should be dished out to ordinary motorists who make a hash of things after the event, an accidnet is an accident but when someone lies to extricate themselves then Jump and jump bloody hard.

[spudchucka]

i.e. the rozzers are going to pay

Nope!.....:no:

[reofix]

crap decision... now anyone who cocks up out on the road (hands up if you never have) can look forward to bankruptcy... this decision does NOT give me the warm fuzzies

[Naki Rat]

crap decision... now anyone who cocks up out on the road (hands up if you never have) can look forward to bankruptcy... this decision does NOT give me the warm fuzzies

If our ACC system (imperfect as it is) wasn't keeping the malicious litigation industry from our door bancruptcy for such misdemeanors would be the norm, as it is in North America much to the glee of the insurance industry there.

[marty]

oh to be an asian dude running from the cops and kill a 7 year old girl out for the day with her dad - and only cost $10k in reparation......

[scumdog]

oh to be an asian dude running from the cops and kill a 7 year old girl out for the day with her dad - and only cost $10k in reparation......

Yeah but he wasn't a cop eh!

And getting off 'lightly'.

[scumdog]

Hand on a second, how does this sentence handed down today align with your claim that this former officer "used the position to evade punishment for wrongdoing"?


Aw shuddup, logic has no place in this land of illogical ranters and toss-pots.

[RantyDave]

oh to be an asian dude running from the cops and kill a 7 year old girl out for the day with her dad - and only cost $10k in reparation......
Yeah, I was thinking about that today, too. He came steaming into a petrol station, got on the brakes too late and smeared a little girl against the wall. If someone offered me $10k under those circumstances I'd kill them with my bare hands yet somehow the little fucker got off. WTF?

Dave

[Squid69]

He got hammered. That's deeply unfair.

For a similar accident with injuries that have long term implications the dude who hurt me had to pay $600. Albeit 17 years ago.

There's definitely a message in the punishment but it is hugely disproportionate with what a "Joe Public" would have been handed in the same circumstances.

cops my dear friend, are not joe public...

[Winston001]

And would it be tax deductable?

Fines by their nature are penalties for a breach of the law. Since you cannot carry on an unlawful business activity, it follows that fines are not tax deductible.

Reparation however? Don't know, possibly its arguable.

However in this case the officer is not self-employed so the reparation cannot be a business expense. Thus no deduction.

As this happened while he was employed by the police, I think it reasonable to assume they will pay the reparation. An order of this magnitude is unusual which suggests the judge believed it would be paid - otherwise he wouldn't have bothered.

Normally this is dealt with by insurance companies and such orders aren't required, but where one party isn't insured ie. the police, then it can happen. Otherwise you'd see such large reparation orders made daily.

[Winston001]

The lawyer is as much to blame here as anyone. I feel that mostly they are just out to line their own pockets and get their client off regardless. Admittedly it's their job to get their clients off, but I do often wonder at their morals, and off course the client could plead guilty, but that wouldn't be the lawyers advice. Sorry Winston.


Ah such cynicism from one so kindly in nature, it grieves me so....

I'll explain another time - what you express is a common misunderstanding. What I can say is that people's perspectives change dramatically when they are confronted by a prosecution which they believe to be wrong.

[cold comfort]

It's near 30 years of riding bikes and driving cars that makes me think like this. I haven't caused an accident yet, and despite being put in ICU, theatre and the spinal unit, not one person responsible ever manned up in court.

Even when I've been hit from behind it's been my "fault" for stopping too quickly.

People have cried, apologised, promised to help make things better, but after a couple of days reflection, it's always ended up my fault.

You are being extremely naive thinking that people will own anything that they do on the road. It's never their fault.

Accidents where I've been involved with helping the injured party and have witnessed the accident have ended up with me in court having my witness statement ripped to shreds. It is the rare event when people fully own the responsibility of causing injury or death for another person.

Sadly this has been my experience also- bouts of amnesia and threats of violence when reparation is suggested! The last guy who ran into me i shopped despite his apparent remorse.Turns out he had NO insurance and NO drivers licence!

[peasea]

Hand on a second, how does this sentence handed down today align with your claim that this former officer "used the position to evade punishment for wrongdoing"?

Quite right, my bad, remove the word "other".

He's still an arsehole:http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/2448115/Officers-actions-sad

[caseye]

Cheers for the link peasea, after reading this I am heartened to see that the riders may in fact be getting the 3o grand each and it confirms my earlier comment about the chareacter or lack of it shown by this ex Police Officer.
I hope it hurts HIS Pocket alot.

[Paul in NZ]

I'm confused...

If the officer was 'working' when he screwed up and his employer (NZ Govt) sets the tone and targets for his actions.... how come his employer does not have any financial responsibility here??

Rather odd....

[caseye]

Odd ? maybe, about time? Yes.Personal responsibility would stop most of this sort of thing happening if the fools doing the dumb shit knew it was THEM that was going to be made to pay or be put in jail till the fine was paid.
Ha, if only we did that here, played the game the way the crims do! Hard, least till they drop the ball, then they cry foul! I'm sorry I was raised bad.
Sorry Paul I didn't answer your question,I think that in this case the Police are showing their disfavour with this ex's attitude and demeanour.I certainly hope so and that it isn't ultimately US that pays the money this time.
Having said that, those two guys deserve all they do get and more.

[FJRider]

Odd ? no, about time? Yes.Personal responsibilty would stop most of this sort of thing happening if the fools doing the dumb shit knew it was THEM that was going to be made to pay or be put in jail till the fine was paid.
Ha if only we did that here, played the game the way the crims do! Hard, least till tney drop the ball, then they cry foul! I'm sorry I was raised bad.

I spent a few years in Singapore. That is how their court system works.If you have to go to court (You have to appear in a suit,and a tie), you know (have to find out) what the maxium fine will be, and tak that amount. If a fine is given by the judge, you pay the fine BEFORE you leave the courtroom ... or you go to jail untill the fine is PAID.

[terbang]

One would now hope that police bosses will be taking a closer look at pursuit policies and that individual cops, as professional road users, will also be reviewing their own personal attitudes and performances in this area. :Police:

[Mom]

I'm confused...

If the officer was 'working' when he screwed up and his employer (NZ Govt) sets the tone and targets for his actions.... how come his employer does not have any financial responsibility here??

Rather odd....

No doubt if you want to have a hunt back through this thread you will find me condeming the actions of this then Police officer, or if you cant find a post, know I thought that way. He did something incredibly stupid and reckless, resulting in two bikers getting badly injured.

He came out swinging, the bikers were speeding, he did nothing wrong, his employer was silent. Over time it seemed more likely he was telling porkies. He left the police, no doubt with his pension and an agreement that he will take whatever punishment is heading his way to be his own problem. He was not dismissed, he resigned.

He has now faced the court and been found guilty of the offense he was charged with. He has been punished far harder than you or I would have been. Reparation will be expected, and I am picking this man will actually pay it, unlike the scumbags that I have had dealings with and who owe me money who dont pay up.

I am betting he got full pension entitlements to go away, all associated costs were to be his own. Wonder what the pension rights would have been should he have stuck it out to face dismissal by the police.

Chapter closed, he fucked up and it has been proven in court, he has been punished and will pay up.

What a shitty way to end a police career.

[Paul in NZ]

yes yes - all true but my point is....

If the army backed over your bike with a tank - would the army pay or their driver? Say I'm driving a work van and crash into you, our insurance company would pay and then they may come after me for the $$....

So - did the Police pay to have the bikes fixed / written off etc and this is on top of that?

OR is this personal damages...

Look at the wider context, yes this guy did a really stupid thing and then didn't help himself but does this translate to an armed offender thing that goes wrong. Would the individual police guy get sued or take to court?

Good as this outcome is because it involved bikers, will it stop officers taking a risk in another situation due to personal liability?

[FJRider]

yes yes - all true but my point is....

If the army backed over your bike with a tank - would the army pay or their driver? Say I'm driving a work van and crash into you, our insurance company would pay and then they may come after me for the $$....

So - did the Police pay to have the bikes fixed / written off etc and this is on top of that?

OR is this personal damages...

Look at the wider context, yes this guy did a really stupid thing and then didn't help himself but does this translate to an armed offender thing that goes wrong. Would the individual police guy get sued or take to court?

Good as this outcome is because it involved bikers, will it stop officers taking a risk in another situation due to personal liability?

Most companys have Public Liability Insurance, in the case of "accidents" with/involving that companys vehicles.
If it involves the breaking of laws that require court action, and the defendant found guilty... those companys seldom come to the party in reparation. Unless they have been found (proven) they instructed their staff member to do it.

[Katman]

Those of you who continue to bring up the old "the bastard accused them of speeding" line make me fucking laugh.

I mean for fuck's sake, one of the motorcyclists even admitted after the court case that they were speeding. :weird:

Human nature being what it is means that people say and do whatever it takes to get them out of the shit.

Every one of you would probably do just the same.

[FJRider]

Chapter closed, he fucked up and it has been proven in court, he has been punished and will pay up.



This chapter may be closed, but no doubt another will start.

And this thread will continue ... for a while ...

[BMWST?]

Those of you who continue to bring up the old "the bastard accused them of speeding" line make me fucking laugh.

I mean for fuck's sake, one of the motorcyclists even admitted after the court case that they were speeding. :weird:

Human nature being what it is means that people say and do whatever it takes to get them out of the shit.

Every one of you would probably do just the same.

agree....say we had agreed to meet one of our mates at the end of Buller Gorge....he was late,so we go looking for him ,and pass each other ,so in a moment of hot headedness,we slam on the brakes and do a u turn,but we misjudge,the width of the road,and the visibility round the corner.As we are trying to complete the U turn a red Commodore SS comes round the corner and smashes into us.......I can guess the first reaction of the u turning motorcyclist....

[ynot slow]

Those of you who continue to bring up the old "the bastard accused them of speeding" line make me fucking laugh.

I mean for fuck's sake, one of the motorcyclists even admitted after the court case that they were speeding. :weird:

Human nature being what it is means that people say and do whatever it takes to get them out of the shit.

Every one of you would probably do just the same.

I read a report that the crash unit couldn't accurately say the speed at impact was,roughly 104-116km if I recall,hardly warranting a ticket,unless quota was low.Sure they may have been speeding prior to the crash,but obviously the car was in a close proximity to the bend for a bike not to be able to stop,imagine a 40tonne rig coming round the bend,no cop alive then scenario.Then headlines of speeding rig kills officer,dramatic don't think so,maybe the officers all need a decent vehicle training session rather than a few hours at manfeild during training,they are all not like a supercar driver,like us all.

Re deny at all costs has been this cops downfall,and he has been shafted by the superiors attitude to him maybe,but at victim impact report a bit of compassion may have helped,none of I didn't do anything wrong bullshit.

[Katman]

I read a report that the crash unit couldn't accurately say the speed at impact was,roughly 104-116km if I recall

Speed at impact???????

Are you suggesting they didn't even bother to brake?

Or are you suggesting they were doing more than 104-116kph as they came around the corner?

And besides, what part of 'being able to stop within the distance visible to you' don't you understand?

[nadroj]

Speed at impact???????

Are you suggesting they didn't even bother to brake?

Or are you suggesting they were doing more than 104-116kph as they came around the corner?

And besides, what part of 'being able to stop within the distance visible to you' don't you understand?

Where did you get this from? It used to be that you had to be able to stop within half the clear distance ahead!

[Katman]

Where did you get this from? It used to be that you had to be able to stop within half the clear distance ahead!

That is on a road with no centre line.

On a road with a centre line it is the distance visible to you.

[Marmoot]

That is on a road with no centre line.

On a road with a centre line it is the distance visible to you.

Btw what difference would a centre line make if you have a patrol car wedged across both lanes? :mellow:

U-turn should be banned. 180 degree turns should really only be committed without exposing the vehicle to both sides of the road. E.g., using a road side/runoff/turning area, driveways, or side roads..

[Katman]

Btw what difference would a centre line make if you have a patrol car wedged across both lanes? :mellow:



What do you mean "what difference would it make"?

If you can stop within the distance visible then there is very little chance of hitting anything. (Unless of course, a vehicle is driving towards you on your side of the centre line).

[Winston001]

Being frustrated with the minimal and barely accurate news reports, I have made my own enquiries. Incidentally the Otago Daily Times has the best report of sentencing http://www.odt.co.nz/58043/police-patrol-driver039s-gross-error039-costs-him-60000

For those who think Bridgman was convicted for being a liar, that's wrong. Here is what the judge said - "You thought at the time you were doing your duty in trying to apprehend a speeding motorcyclist and you made an awful mistake."

My earlier posts were not quite right - hate that. :shit: Here are the correct facts.

Bridgman was ultimately convicted because the jury visited the crash scene. This is unusual, but it meant they got to see how narrow the road is and the tight corner.

The NZ Police do not use insurance, they paid out directly for the bikes. All done some time ago.

The reparation ordered of $30,000 is payable to each motorcyclist. It represents compensation for post traumatic stress and emotional harm. It is payable by Bridgman personally, not the police.

I'm a bit shocked about that myself because it seems an extraordinary sum given what others pay - or don't pay.

Bridgman offered $20,000 each at the hearing so its hard for him to argue with the final result. He isn't a wealthy man but PERFd last year so 30 years superannuation should be enough to pay up.

[ynot slow]

Speed at impact???????

Are you suggesting they didn't even bother to brake?

Or are you suggesting they were doing more than 104-116kph as they came around the corner?

And besides, what part of 'being able to stop within the distance visible to you' don't you understand?

You don't (want to) understand do you,my comment was directed at the fact some press and people are saying speed WAS a factor,then adding maybe was.The crash unit could not say what speed they were doing,hence no prosecution to the injured riders due to the cause being blamed on them.

Of course they tried to brake wtf,the fact as I understand is the cop did a stupid manouvre on a narrowish road requiring 3 attempts,maybe to close to the corner,bikes travelling(no speed mentioned)couldn't stop in time.Most instances if you crash into a vehicle you will be prosecuted due to the fact you haven't stopped in time,therefore riding/driving to close to vehicle in front,a few exceptions to the rule granted.Pretty hard to miss if the object is moving accross the road,they turn one way and brake then the car moves back into their line wham.

No way am I blaming the riders,the blame is the system where it seems revenue from road ticketing is more important than solving crime,certainly more profitable(as he looks at speed camera ticket),feel sorry for the cops I know,they are human,and if they caused an accident like this would damn well show more remorse than this one.


Where did you get this from? It used to be that you had to be able to stop within half the clear distance ahead!
My point in driving/riding exactly,double the stopping in wet weather,the 2 second rule is a guideline not gospel according to Pete(r brock).

[Ixion]

Being frustrated with the minimal and barely accurate news reports, I have made my own enquiries. Incidentally the Otago Daily Times has the best report of sentencing http://www.odt.co.nz/58043/police-patrol-driver039s-gross-error039-costs-him-60000

For those who think Bridgman was convicted for being a liar, that's wrong. Here is what the judge said - "You thought at the time you were doing your duty in trying to apprehend a speeding motorcyclist and you made an awful mistake."

My earlier posts were not quite right - hate that. :shit: Here are the correct facts.

Bridgman was ultimately convicted because the jury visited the crash scene. This is unusual, but it meant they got to see how narrow the road is and the tight corner.

The NZ Police do not use insurance, they paid out directly for the bikes. All done some time ago.

The reparation ordered of $30,000 is payable to each motorcyclist. It represents compensation for post traumatic stress and emotional harm. It is payable by Bridgman personally, not the police.

I'm a bit shocked about that myself because it seems an extraordinary sum given what others pay - or don't pay.

Bridgman offered $20,000 each at the hearing so its hard for him to argue with the final result. He isn't a wealthy man but PERFd last year so 30 years superannuation should be enough to pay up.

Thank you. That clarifies matters.
A pertinent quote
Defence lawyer Garry Barkle said Bridgman's offending resulted from a split second decision to pursue a speeding motorcyclist as part of local and national police policies to combat speed
I suggest that the silver braided ones should bear some responsibility also. The sentence seems a stiff one : although the location was totally unsuitable to try to turn (I passed through there a few months ago and noted the fact), Bridgman may have felt under a duty to pursue the elad machine, based on orders from on high. Some responsibility should be assigned to the obsessional and hysterical attitude toward minor speeding of the police senior ranks.
However, the way that the police establishment turned on Bridgeman after the event suggests that maybe there were already outstanding issues within the force.

[nadroj]

Maybe he needed some "boy racer" training on how to do a handbrakie?

[Katman]

You don't (want to) understand do you

You said...........


I read a report that the crash unit couldn't accurately say the speed at impact was,roughly 104-116km if I recall

If that were the case then you are suggesting they either were going a whole lot faster as they went into the corner or they didn't brake before the impact.

What part of your post am I failing to understand?

[terbang]

The outcome of this case leaves a resounding message, drive like a farken idiot and hurt/kill a bunch of people and your gonna have to pay some money to your victims. Regardless of who you are. And that's a good outcome.
Now back to splitting hairs on semantic legal interpretations of the kiwi bush lawyers mythology.

[MSTRS]

... but PERFd last year so 30 years superannuation should be enough to pay up.

Did he? I was of the belief that he retired, and that as ex-MOT he couldn't perf?

[Winston001]

The outcome of this case leaves a resounding message, drive like a farken idiot and hurt/kill a bunch of people and your gonna have to pay some money to your victims. Regardless of who you are. And that's a good outcome.


Well sort of, and I really do wish it was that simple. However I suggest you check out the sentencing day at any busy District Court. Judges do occasionally order payments to victims but usually in the hundreds of $ not $thousands.

The example already given here of $10,000 reparation paid by the guy who hit a little girl in a forecourt shows inconsistency. Why wasn't she worth $30,000? Indeed why not $100,000?

What about the hundreds of drivers who are never ordered to pay anything? Like the ones who have deliberately driven into crowds and maimed/killed people. Why does Bridgman have to pay $60,000 for a momentary mistake - made because he was doing his job - when countless others pay little or nothing?

[Winston001]

Did he? I was of the belief that he retired, and that as ex-MOT he couldn't perf?

Fair call, you are probably right. He would still have had the public service super scheme, and/or probably the police scheme which could have entitled him to a lump sum withdrawal - although he may have just kept it going. Don't know.

[RantyDave]

If the officer was 'working' when he screwed up and his employer (NZ Govt) sets the tone and targets for his actions.... how come his employer does not have any financial responsibility here??
Yeah, I don't get this either. It's like suggesting that the bank worker who screwed up and dumped $10M in some dodgy bastards accounts is now liable for the ten mill. Errrr, nope.

If I were a Policeman I'd be somewhat concerned about this. Scummy! - WTF, surely you have liability insurance at work? Particularly given that the line of work can occasionally involve twatting people with a big stick.

Dave

[RantyDave]

He's still an arsehole:http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/2448115/Officers-actions-sad
Oh, well done. That is some very interesting stuff in there...

Bridgman, who had been in the police for 35 years, had resigned from the force as a result of getting little support from police following the accident ..... The officer in charge of the case, Senior Sergeant Tony Bernards of Nelson police, said outside the court he was "extremely disappointed" that Bridgman had shown no compassion for his victims. "It was all about him."
Or "Yes, he does give the Police a bad name and has been doing so for a long time. We hate him."

Bridgman had been on a salary of $87,000
Those are some damn expensive speed cameras we have out there...

The judge said the crash had financial implications totalling $127,000 for Mr Collins and $119,000 for Mr Russell.
Take any particular ride, multiply it by a one in one thousand chance of getting injured and it suddenly starts to look like a very expensive pastime - and that's without considering whether or not you'll be killed. Hmmmmmm.

Dave

[Fatjim]

There are no winners in this case.

After reading that latest report, I can kinda (at a stretch) sympathise with Bridgeman.

1. 35 years in the "force" has got to make you fairly cynical, and you'd be fairly institutionalised in terms of accusing accident participants, its police 101. The guys a wanker, but thats what this kind of work tends to do to you. (Mind you, some would say you'd have to be a wanker to aspire to give out traffic tickets and attend traffic accidents for a living).

2. He leaves the job after giving his working life to it with 160k, has to pay 60k, plus legal fees and ends up woth a minimum wage job. The Po po should have coughed up for this. I would expect my employer to carry the can if I made a genuine mistake at work, even if I tried to cover it up.


The only positive that I can think of is that Brent now rides a Tuono.

[NDORFN]

Pigs. What can ya do?

I eagerly await the arrival of swine-flu.

[peasea]

Oh, well done. That is some very interesting stuff in there...



Yup, especially the bit about five bucks a week. What a tosser. The judge summed him up with the description of "mean spirited". A bit of an understatement though.

[spudchucka]

The outcome of this case leaves a resounding message, drive like a farken idiot and hurt/kill a bunch of people and your gonna have to pay some money to your victims. Regardless of who you are. And that's a good outcome.
Now back to splitting hairs on semantic legal interpretations of the kiwi bush lawyers mythology.

Lets just hope that the same level of sentencing applies to all offenders in the future, regardless of occupation.

[caseye]

Lets just hope that the same level of sentencing applies to all offenders in the future, regardless of occupation.

Here here spudchucka, a sentiment I can and do wholeheartedly agree with.:eek:

[idb]

As I understand it, the Police have extra protections given to them when they are carrying out their duties - the penalty for assaulting a cop is higher than that for another member of the public for example.
Also, they have greater powers than ordinary citizens (travelling at speed, using force for example) and they are trained to use these powers correctly and safely.
As they are granted this extra power and protection it should be right that they are held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

[MSTRS]

Got it in one, IDB. Therein lies the reason for what some are calling a stiff penalty.

[caseye]

As I understand it, the Police have extra protections given to them when they are carrying out their duties - the penalty for assaulting a cop is higher than that for another member of the public for example.
Also, they have greater powers than ordinary citizens (travelling at speed, using force for example) and they are trained to use these powers correctly and safely.
As they are granted this extra power and protection it should be right that they are held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

Sorry but totally incorrect, Police members are subject to exactly the same laws and protections as any other citizen.
If they have an accident on the way to an incident and if they are found to be at fault they are charged and the courts go harder on them than on ordinary citizens.
no Police officer can use force unless it has or is about to be used on a member of the public or themselves, same as for ordinary citizens.
Tried assaulting a Police Officer lately?
The Judiciary are of the opinion that assaulting a Police Officer is about as minor as it gets because they work in an environment where it is expected to happen to them.
Being officially trained once or twice a year in the use of firearms, tazers or high powered Police patrol vehicles is enough is it?
Having been "trained" should they be expected to remember everything immediately? always?
I don't think you meant any unkindness to our Officers but the truth of the matter is that they are just men and women doing their best to help us.
With what they've got and in the time available, it's not an easy ask at the best of times.But they keep at it and the bulk of them are completely dedicated front line officers.

[idb]

Sorry but totally incorrect, Police members are subject to exactly the same laws and protections as any other citizen.
If they have an accident on the way to an incident and if they are found to be at fault they are charged and the courts go harder on them than on ordinary citizens.
no Police officer can use force unless it has or is about to be used on a member of the public or themselves, same as for ordinary citizens.
Tried assaulting a Police Officer lately?
The Judiciary are of the opinion that assaulting a Police Officer is about as minor as it gets because they work in an environment where it is expected to happen to them.
Being officially trained once or twice a year in the use of firearms, tazers or high powered Police patrol vehicles is enough is it?
Having been "trained" should they be expected to remember everything immediately? always?
I don't think you meant any unkindness to our Officers but the truth of the matter is that they are just men and women doing their best to help us.
With what they've got and in the time available, it's not an easy ask at the best of times.But they keep at it and the bulk of them are completely dedicated front line officers.

You're right, I know that most of them want to do a good job and I might be completely wrong in my assumptions but extra powers should have extra associated responsibility.

Of course they can be prosecuted if they have an accident, as they should, but my point is that they are warranted to exceed the speed limit on the way to an incident as part of the job - permission denied to ordinary public - so they must use this intelligently and skillfully.

They are allowed to carry weapons but also have to use them appropriately.

They need training for this, if the training is inadequate then that's another matter.

I'm a registered electrician.
This allows me to carry out work that is illegal for others.
However, if I cock up, I can face extra penalties.

[caseye]

You've got the right idea, except for the warranted to speed bit, they have no and I mean no protection or other means of protection if they are speeding, naturally we see flashing lights and move out of the way, no problem but should they crash or be stopped by an overzealous Police traffic enforcement Officer,there is nothing that says the reason for the excessive speed is any sort of excuse.None at all.
Yes the training Is woefully inadaquete when you consider it takes years to learn how to drive fast and safely on a race track,let alone an open road/motorway where every second Idiot is just that! Or to hit a moving target with a weapon, now thank God tazers, with any sort of certainty.
If ever they needed better training and instruction it's now, of late we've seen the results of being too nice and too bloody soft on real, case hardened criminals prepared to use any means at their disposal because they fear nothing the law can administer to them.