Farm-stay?

[jafar]

The driver of the van that killed 3 riders yesterday is staying with a farmer while the police decide what to do.
How does this add up with 141k down the highway & kill no one & they make you walk home while you mates have to come & get your car/bike....
I guess the moral of this story is that you are better off to kill three motorcyclists because then you get to go to a farmstay....... :mad::mad:

[JimO]

i can gurantee he will be in his worst nightmare, it wont matter where he is

[janno]

i can gurantee he will be in his worst nightmare, it wont matter where he is

It's a she, Austrian woman.

[Tank]

What did you want her to do. She's not from NZ, has had her passport held until it goes to trial.

She has to stay someplace.

[Romeo]

Is there even any public evidence to say the tourists were in the wrong?


//EDIT: Statements nullified due to her recent admission of guilt.

[JimO]

Is there even any public evidence to say the tourists were in the wrong?

said on the news that she ran onto the left side of the road and overcorrected

[Lucy]

Do you really think she is playing with the animals going 'yippee, isn't this nice'???

She will be in prison for the rest of her life, actually worse, as she will never be able to be released from the agony of knowing she killed four people.

And yes I realize that the families of those who have died are also in agony and 'prison' but that does not make hers any less. Two wrongs don't make a right.

:no:

[breakaway]

She will be in prison for the rest of her life

What? This is New Zealand.

[jafar]

Do you really think she is playing with the animals going 'yippee, isn't this nice'???

She will be in prison for the rest of her life, actually worse, as she will never be able to be released from the agony of knowing she killed four people.

And yes I realize that the families of those who have died are also in agony and 'prison' but that does not make hers any less. Two wrongs don't make a right.

:no:

She will get a slap on the wrist & thats all.
As for prison time :laugh::laugh:

[Lucy]

She will get a slap on the wrist & thats all.
As for prison time :laugh::laugh:


I was referring to a mental and emotional prison.

:calm:

[jafar]

I was referring to a mental and emotional prison.

:calm:

So she gets to kill 3 motorcyclists on the day & for that she gets to stay on a farm & go to a mental and emotional prison. :rolleyes:

Using this theory I could push a busload of tourists off the Auckland harbour bridge & receive a knighthood for my efforts :lol:

As she has pleaded guilty to driving 3 people to their deaths & said 'so sorry' what is going to happen to her now????
Not prison time, that would be so un PC.:banana:
Most likely she will be back in austria within a few weeks.:girlfight:

[JimO]

So she gets to kill 3 motorcyclists on the day & for that she gets to stay on a farm & go to a mental and emotional prison. :rolleyes:

Using this theory I could push a busload of tourists off the Auckland harbour bridge & receive a knighthood for my efforts :lol:

As she has pleaded guilty to driving 3 people to their deaths & said 'so sorry' what is going to happen to her now????
Not prison time, that would be so un PC.:banana:
Most likely she will be back in austria within a few weeks.:girlfight:

what would you have happen to her

[jafar]

what would you have happen to her

Something more than what she is going to get. The lives of 3 adults & 1 child are worth more than a farmstay & oh i'm sorry but I fucked up, can I have my passport back so I can go home now please :shutup:
As this is NZ they will probably deport her back to austria, which is where she wants to be anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the kiwi taxpayer gets to pay her airfare home too

[kerfufflez]

Something more than what she is going to get. The lives of 3 adults & 1 child are worth more than a farmstay & oh i'm sorry but I fucked up, can I have my passport back so I can go home now please :shutup:
As this is NZ they will probably deport her back to austria, which is where she wants to be anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the kiwi taxpayer gets to pay her airfare home too


So, if she goes home you're complaining about the cost to the NZ taxpayer.
If she stays I can almost guarantee that people will complain about the cost to the NZ taxpayer of keeping her here.

It is a no-win situation.

[Lucy]

So she gets to kill 3 motorcyclists on the day & for that she gets to stay on a farm & go to a mental and emotional prison. :rolleyes:

fight:


"she gets to kill" ?????

Is this something you would LIKE to have the opportunity to do???

If you had to choose to be either one of the dead people, or the person who did it and has to live with the guilt, what would you choose? Don't answer that, just stop and think for a minute would ya.

[jafar]

So, if she goes home you're complaining about the cost to the NZ taxpayer.
If she stays I can almost guarantee that people will complain about the cost to the NZ taxpayer of keeping her here.

It is a no-win situation.

Surely if you kill someone then you should be punished in some way for the mistake you made, sorry but a farmstay & emotional prison doesn't cut it.


"she gets to kill" ?????

Is this something you would LIKE to have the opportunity to do???

If you had to choose to be either one of the dead people, or the person who did it and has to live with the guilt, what would you choose? Don't answer that, just stop and think for a minute would ya.

You do have some serious issues , may I suggest counselling ....... The fact is that 4 people died & the person that caused this to happen is getting bugger all in the way of punishment.
Causing the death of another using any means other than a motor vehicle is classed as manslaughter.

[yungatart]

....... The fact is that 4 people died & the person that caused this to happen is getting bugger all in the way of punishment.

You know this how? I don't believe she has been sentenced yet?

If Kahui can be out on bail for the deliberate murder of 2 innocent babies, why should we lock up a tourist who made a (horrendous) mistake?

[MSTRS]

If Kahui can be out on bail for the deliberate murder of 2 innocent babies,

With the subsequent closing of ranks and stonewalling by the entire family

[Usarka]

Causing the death of another using any means other than a motor vehicle is classed as manslaughter.
Not true. eg you'll find a number of people involved in hunting accidents being charged with careless use of a firearm rather than manslaughter.

[mstriumph]

Do you really think she is playing with the animals going 'yippee, isn't this nice'???

She will be in prison for the rest of her life, actually worse, as she will never be able to be released from the agony of knowing she killed four people.

..........

if YOU killed 4 people mebbe that would cause YOU perpetual agony
but i'd say that for many people - her included for all we know - their prime concern would be
'how do i get out of this with the lease consequence to ME :sweatdrop' .........

we don't know her personally
it's a bit OTT to ascribe to her noble sentiments she may well not share?

[Tank]

if YOU killed 4 people mebbe that would cause YOU perpetual agony
but i'd say that for many people - her included for all we know - their prime concern would be
'how do i get out of this with the lease consequence to ME :sweatdrop' .........

we don't know her personally
it's a bit OTT to ascribe to her noble sentiments she may well not share?

She made a (huge) mistake.

She has stood up and pleaded guilty. What more can she do.

I feel sorry for all involved - but I feel 100 times more sorry for her than all the drunken kiwis driving on our roads killing people.

[mstriumph]

all, ALL of my sympathy is reserved for the victims

- but then, i am not noble :mellow:

[Tank]

all, ALL of my sympathy is reserved for the victims

- but then, i am not noble :mellow:

Just a question (playing devils advocate here for a second).

If you were out in a car and accidently backed over a child. Would you expect support / comfort from Friends and family? or do you believe that ALL their sympathy should be towards the child and his/her family?

How would you feel if your husband, wife said - Why should I feel bad for you - you killed a kid. How do you think you would feel if it was you that had the accident - do you think you would be filled with grief, or are you cold and unemotional, simply pushing it out of your mind and carrying on as if nothing happened?

Like most people - I believe that in the event of a tragic event like this there are no winners. It impacts so many people.

Im not saying that she deserves equal sympathy- after all our thoughts should first go out to the families of those killed. But to have no sympathy for the lady who was driving, not drunk, not speeding - simply had an accident is very cold and heartless.

[FJRider]

Sounds like the wild west... Give her a fair trial... the hang her ?????? Whatever happened to Innocent till PROVEN guilty in a court of law. The only ones that win are the lawyers. The circumstances leading up to the accident...how many CANNOT say...there but for the grace of god, go I. We ALL stuff up, most times we get away with it. SOME DONT !!!!! WE ALL KNOW THE RISKS. Between turning the key ON, and turning the key OFF, take care and REMEMBER...ONE little boo boo and YOUR world can turn to SHIT !!!

[mstriumph]

Just a question (playing devils advocate here for a second).

If you were out in a car and accidently backed over a child. Would you expect support / comfort from Friends and family? or do you believe that ALL their sympathy should be towards the child and his/her family? ......

yes - actually i do




............ How do you think you would feel if it was you that had the accident - do you think you would be filled with grief, or are you cold and unemotional, simply pushing it out of your mind and carrying on as if nothing happened?


i would be filled with grief
but that DOESN't mean i would expect sympathy because i was feeling dreadful about something that i, myself, had done to someone else
- how could i? how could anybody?
it'd be like that old joke about the guy in court for murdering him parents asking the jury to deal gently with him because he was an orphan ..... :confused:


........... But to have no sympathy for the lady who was driving, not drunk, not speeding - simply had an accident is very cold and heartless.

one man's cold and heartless is another man's realistic and just ...
and - i already told you - i am NOT noble

...... i understand how she may feel [note use of the word 'may']
and i would wish the incident had never occurred [note use of the word 'incident']
but feel sorry for the perpetrator? no :no:

[jafar]

Not true. eg you'll find a number of people involved in hunting accidents being charged with careless use of a firearm rather than manslaughter.

I think you will find that is only when there is an injury relating to the firearm

[MSTRS]

Not true. eg you'll find a number of people involved in hunting accidents being charged with careless use of a firearm rather than manslaughter.


I think you will find that is only when there is an injury relating to the firearm

The real difference is, I believe, that the charge of manslaughter applies to an inadvertant death where there was 'some' intent towards the deceased, whereas in a hunting/road accident the charge is careless use causing death.
The difference may be subtle but it is there.

[Toaster]

Surely if you kill someone then you should be punished in some way for the mistake you made, sorry but a farmstay & emotional prison doesn't cut it.

You do have some serious issues , may I suggest counselling ....... The fact is that 4 people died & the person that caused this to happen is getting bugger all in the way of punishment.
Causing the death of another using any means other than a motor vehicle is classed as manslaughter.

I hear your frustration mate. The farm stay thing is to give her an address to be bailed to rather than holding her in custody after surrendering her passport. It wasn't designed as a holiday for her but to ensure she was located where the police can find her.

Sadly manslaughter is rarely applied in these cases even if it is sought as an alternative charge at the time. Our softcock system would rather go for careless/reckless or dangerous causing death and give them a big fine to be paid to the families in reparation, rather than take away their liberty.

Yet another tragedy with a weak response.

[Toaster]

I guess if you want to kill someone, use a car.... less punishment than another weapon.

[jafar]

I guess if you want to kill someone, use a car.... less punishment than another weapon.

So true, if the same result had been achieved using any other weapon then she would be in remand awaiting sentencing, as it stands she gets an extra few weeks holiday for causing the deaths of four innocent people.
This system really does suck:angry2:

[Lucy]

if YOU killed 4 people mebbe that would cause YOU perpetual agony
but i'd say that for many people - her included for all we know - their prime concern would be
'how do i get out of this with the lease consequence to ME :sweatdrop' .........

we don't know her personally
it's a bit OTT to ascribe to her noble sentiments she may well not share?


Each to their own. I happen to think that it's a bit OTT to accuse someone of what you are accusing her of. FFS she killed four people. Only a monster would be not seriously fucked up by that.

Jafar maybe, as he seems to think that it's only 'proper punishment' is what fucks people up.

[jafar]

Each to their own. I happen to think that it's a bit OTT to accuse someone of what you are accusing her of. FFS she killed four people. Only a monster would be not seriously fucked up by that.

Jafar maybe, as he seems to think that it's only 'proper punishment' is what fucks people up.

Mabey you should read what I have written, my complaint is that the 'woman tourist' has killed 4 people & will get off with next to nothing as a punishment. In fact she gets to stay on a farm while the police sort themselves out & wrap up the case.
That she will have to live with this for the rest of her life is of little or no consequence. she has taken the lives of 4 people.
Even knowing (hoping) that this was a tragic accident & she didn't mean to do it does not alter the end result. Those 4 people are dead !!

[Usarka]

I think you will find that is only when there is an injury relating to the firearm

Nope. not every death gets murder or manslaughter. the court takes many factors into account. mstrs is on the right track....

Careless use of a firearm - not guilty (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4249307a12855.html)

Careless use causing death - guilty (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4251606a11.html)

etc

[Lucy]

So true, if the same result had been achieved using any other weapon then she would be in remand awaiting sentencing, as it stands she gets an extra few weeks holiday for causing the deaths of four innocent people.
This system really does suck:angry2:


If she had used another 'weapon' then presumably she would have been acting with some intent on killing or hurting someone. As far as I know she was here on holiday. That's probably why she isn't in prison.

[jafar]

Nope. not every death gets murder or manslaughter. the court takes many factors into account. mstrs is on the right track....

Careless use of a firearm - not guilty (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4249307a12855.html)

Careless use causing death - guilty (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4251606a11.html)

etc

fair enough, thank you for the info

[jafar]

If she had used another 'weapon' then presumably she would have been acting with some intent on killing or hurting someone. As far as I know she was here on holiday. That's probably why she isn't in prison.

So next time someone feels the urge to cross the median & squash four innocent bikers you will of course be putting your hand up & saying , hey they can come stay here.:devil2:

[rwh]

So next time someone feels the urge to cross the median & squash four innocent bikers you will of course be putting your hand up & saying , hey they can come stay here.:devil2:

Feels the urge? From what I've heard, she lost control of the vehicle; she didn't do it from any sort of desire to be on the wrong side, let alone a desire to kill people.

Yes, if I was running accommodation in the area she'd be welcome.

So, in fact, would the cop from the Buller Gorge, if he needed it.

You, however, might not.

Richard

[mstriumph]

Each to their own. I happen to think that it's a bit OTT to accuse someone of what you are accusing her of. ............

erm :blink: i didn't accuse her of ANYTHING ...
merely pointed out that, without knowing the person concerned, she could just as easily feel one way about it as 'tother .......

unless, of course, YOU know the lady concerned ??

[Tank]

Feels the urge? From what I've heard, she lost control of the vehicle; she didn't do it from any sort of desire to be on the wrong side, let alone a desire to kill people.

Yes, if I was running accommodation in the area she'd be welcome.

So, in fact, would the cop from the Buller Gorge, if he needed it.

You, however, might not.

Richard

+1

Some people get carried away with what was after all just an accident.

There are a lot of people out there a lot more deserving of your scorn than this lady.

FWIW - I lost a family member on a motorbike (Uncle) under the almost exact senerio.

[Mikkel]

Hmm, I hadn't poked my head in here before since the title indicated it was trivial... I was wrong.

Kinda wish I hadn't now since I've just lost a great deal of respect for a couple of people who I hope will never have to be at the mercy of people like themselves. :(

People who can not find sympathy for the driver lacks imagination. Honestly, anyone who ever gets behind the wheel in a car could have caused that accident. If not by loosing control after putting the lefthand wheels on the shoulder, then blackice, a puncture, sudden medical condition, you name it!
And you wouldn't have had to be drunk or speeding. It could happen to you, anyway! Just pray that it doesn't...

And WTF has the fact of her staying at farm got to do with anything? Seriously, that is utterly and totally besides the point!

[FJRider]

[QUOTE=Mikkel;1336555]Hmm, I hadn't poked my head in here before since the title indicated it was trivial... I was wrong.



People who can not find sympathy for the driver lacks imagination. Honestly, anyone who ever gets behind the wheel in a car could have caused that accident. If not by loosing control after putting the lefthand wheels on the shoulder, then black ice, a puncture, sudden medical condition, you name it!
And you wouldn't have had to be drunk or speeding. It could happen to you, anyway! Just pray that it doesn't... HAPPEN TOO YOU !!!


I SECOND THAT