Tourist on our roads

[SwanTiger]

I was just reading the NZ Herald article about the four motorcyclist killed after colliding with a camper van in south canterbury.

The female driver of the camper van has admitted her responsibility and that she drifted onto the opposite side of the road.

I'm curious to hear opinions on what should be done about this, it seems to be a consistent event - tourist drives on the wrong side of the road causing fatalities.

When a friend of mine was here from Germany I had the misfortune of being a passenger in her car. FUCK ME! is that scary shit.

She couldn't drive for shit in the first place.

But the amount of times she went onto the wrong side of the road was shocking. When we had a very near head on with a ford falcon, and when I say near I mean, too late, panic breaking by both drivers, swerving all over the road, going into a ditch 'very near', I drove the rest of the way.

What's the solution?

[jrandom]

A big red arrow stuck to the inside of rental car windscreens, pointing left.

[SwanTiger]

A big red arrow stuck to the inside of rental car windscreens, pointing left.

I like your practical and very simple idea Mr Random.

However, I think that the LTSA in partnership with ACC would prefer to invest $40 million into a bullshit little scheme that will produce leaflets, groovey TV adverts and other crap to acheive no real results.

[sunhuntin]

dont most rentals have something reminding the driver to stay left?

i know the south island has arrows indicating the correct direction of travel on both sides of rest stops and other rural spots where drivers may pull off the road [petrol etc] as well as billboards saying keep left.

maybe we need to subject foreign drivers to the learner drivers practical and scratchy tests, with the scratchy questions specifically aimed at tourists [ie, which side of the road must i drive on, what is the maximum open road speed limit etc.] would also be an idea to have them sit the practical in the vehicle they would be using. issue them with a temp license, and build the costs into something like passports or something.

[homer]

Yes i have to make comment
just saw it on the tv news and yes i said the day it happened after i saw the tv pics of the scene that the van actually drifted off the road edge on the left and then as i said they would have tried to control the van which then obviously they tiped over and on to the wrong side of the road
How i know this ...there were black tyre marks that drifed off to the left and then you know what happens when you get 2 wheels on the grass you try to recover it , if you dont know how much to correct it ....well theres the answer

They did stay left just not looking and to far left

[Mikkel]

If you look at the photo (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4307421a24035.html) of the crashscene it is obvious that the campervan lost control and swerved into the other lane. As such it's not that they were travelling in the wrong lane that caused the accident - but that they lost control and THEN travelled into the path of the oncoming motorcycles.

There might be a problem with tourists driving in NZ - but it has more to do with the fact that you can go in and rent a big ass campervan on you normal car license without ever having had any experience driving vehicles of that size. Combine that with narrow windy mountain roads and you have a rather nasty cocktail...

As for you german friend not being able to drive - it's probably more gender related than nationality related... :dodge::chase:

ok ok j/k

[SwanTiger]

Yes i have to make comment
just saw it on the tv news and yes i said the day it happened after i saw the tv pics of the scene that the van actually drifted off the road edge on the left and then as i said they would have tried to control the van which then obviously they tiped over and on to the wrong side of the road
How i know this ...there were black tyre marks that drifed off to the left and then you know what happens when you get 2 wheels on the grass you try to recover it , if you dont know how much to correct it ....well theres the answer

They did stay left just not looking and to far left

Probably accurate, however we'll generalise it and base it on all the accidents that have been caused by tourist driving on the wrong side of the road.

To speculate, perhaps they were on the wrong side of the road, saw the bikes, over reacted and swerved back to the left, too far and into the ditch, tried to correct again, this time the bikes were closer, straight over into the opposite lane again and BOOM lots of dead people and the sick smell you get when blood and flesh is cooking on the road from it being so hot on a sunny day.

[jafar]

There isn't a solution so long as there is an 'international drivers license' system in place. Tourists are allowed to drive on their licenses in the same way as we are able to drive in their countries if/when we wish to go there, the gibbermint is unlikely to change the system when tourism is worth millions in revenue.:no:

To be fair the casualties caused by tourists is fairly minimal. Drunks would be the cause of more:pinch:

[Mikkel]

dont most rentals have something reminding the driver to stay left?

i know the south island has arrows indicating the correct direction of travel on both sides of rest stops and other rural spots where drivers may pull off the road [petrol etc] as well as billboards saying keep left.

maybe we need to subject foreign drivers to the learner drivers practical and scratchy tests, with the scratchy questions specifically aimed at tourists [ie, which side of the road must i drive on, what is the maximum open road speed limit etc.] would also be an idea to have them sit the practical in the vehicle they would be using. issue them with a temp license, and build the costs into something like passports or something.

As it is you can get a NZ license by presenting a full overseas license and doing the scratchy test. And considering that driving/riding instruction is not mandatory in NZ - unlike most overseas destinations - I don't think that is unreasonable.

The scratchy test is not worth anything at all IMHO. Tourists coming to NZ are full well aware of the fact that you drive on the left here - if there's anything that is weird it's the silly give way to right turning vehicles when turning left!

The times when a driver takes his/her vehicle into the righthand lane it is solely due to routine combined with a lack of traffic. There are already, as you say, road markings in the form of arrows pointing in the direction of travel.

[SwanTiger]

To be fair the casualties caused by tourists is fairly minimal. Drunks would be the cause of more:pinch:

I don't know, suppose we would have to see the statistics to validify that statement. I'm of the opinion that tourist on the wrong side of the road are a greater threat to motorcyclist than they are other vehicles.

Simply because when you are head on with a any vehicle other than a motorcycle, 9.9 times out of 10 the motorcycle is going to lose.

[Mikkel]

There isn't a solution so long as there is an 'international drivers license' system in place. Tourists are allowed to drive on their licenses in the same way as we are able to drive in their countries if/when we wish to go there, the gibbermint is unlikely to change the system when tourism is worth millions in revenue.:no:

To be fair the casualties caused by tourists is fairly minimal. Drunks would be the cause of more:pinch:

Even if tourism didn't contribute a significant amount that would most likely not change until NZ joined the "axis of evil"! Just like you enjoy other priviledges like visa waiver agreements and other hoohah that makes international travel a breeze - there is an agreement amongst a big lot of countries that they acknowledge the driver/rider training in those countries to be up to standard.

[Mikkel]

I don't know, suppose we would have to see the statistics to validify that statement. I'm of the opinion that tourist on the wrong side of the road are a greater threat to motorcyclist than they are other vehicles.

Simply because when you are head on with a any vehicle other than a motorcycle, 9.9 times out of 10 the motorcycle is going to lose.

That's bullshit - a motorcycle has a narrower profile and as such a collision will be easier to avoid. Even then - two cars having a head-on-collision at speed is likely to have a higher casualty count than an accident involving a motorcycle. (Oh, disregard that - most cars only have one person in them around here).

[SwanTiger]

That's bullshit - a motorcycle has a narrower profile and as such a collision will be easier to avoid. Even then - two cars having a head-on-collision at speed is likely to have a higher casualty count than an accident involving a motorcycle. (Oh, disregard that - most cars only have one person in them around here).

Yeah, but we're looking at this from our perspective as motorcyclists.

[rwh]

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

[SwanTiger]

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

I'd agree with that, nice and simple "What side of the road do I drive on?", "The right side!"

[Mikkel]

Yeah, but we're looking at this from our perspective as motorcyclists.

Ok - I'm still pretty damn sure you'll find that the road toll on bikers due to tourists (from righthand driving countries) driving on the wrong side of the road is going to be extremely low. And no - the 4 people killed this weekend would not add to it I believe.

So rest easy and give those tourist a nice wave as you zoom by - be happy that they pop by and drop some foreign dough into the NZ coffers. Every buck they chuck in is one buck less the police has to rake in through speeding enforcement... (and yes, I am aware that this is in noway correct)

[jafar]

I don't know, suppose we would have to see the statistics to validify that statement. I'm of the opinion that tourist on the wrong side of the road are a greater threat to motorcyclist than they are other vehicles.

Simply because when you are head on with a any vehicle other than a motorcycle, 9.9 times out of 10 the motorcycle is going to lose.

The chances of a tourist having a head on with a car are much greater than having a similar crash with a bike, the sheer weight of numbers is in favour of a car v car situation.
While the crash this past week was a tragedy it is a rarity for a tourist van ( or any other van ) to be involved in a crash with a bike let alone several bikes.

[James Deuce]

Can you imagine the lethal carnage that would follow a change to the right hand side of the road? Better relatively small numbers of accidents caused by tourists than the 10s of thousands of deaths that would result from that change in NZ. People struggle with keeping left in NZ and that's the only side of the road the vast majority of them have driven on.

Public transport wouldn't be safe either. I'd insist on working from home if that happened I'm afraid. I'd get groceries delivered.

There are plenty of people in NZ who shouldn't be driving at all, due to health, mental health, age related infirmity, physical or mental disability, or sheer stubborn stupidity.

It doesn't bear thinking about, let alone proposing.

[Mikkel]

Can you imagine the lethal carnage that would follow a change to the right hand side of the road? Better relatively small numbers of accidents caused by tourists than the 10s of thousands of deaths that would result from that change in NZ. People struggle with keeping left in NZ and that's the only side of the road the vast majority of them have driven on.

Public transport wouldn't be safe either. I'd insist on working from home if that happened I'm afraid. I'd get groceries delivered.

There are plenty of people in NZ who shouldn't be driving at all, due to health, mental health, age related infirmity, physical or mental disability, or sheer stubborn stupidity.

It doesn't bear thinking about, let alone proposing.


Not quite so...

In Sweden they changed from LHD to RHD on September 3 1967. I even believe there was not a single accident on the day and accident figures dropped sharply for a time.

Mind you, this was Sweden - not NZ.

Actually - reading about LHD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_hand_drive#Sweden) on wikipedia is quite interesting.

[SwanTiger]

Can you imagine the lethal carnage that would follow a change to the right hand side of the road? Better relatively small numbers of accidents caused by tourists than the 10s of thousands of deaths that would result from that change in NZ. People struggle with keeping left in NZ and that's the only side of the road the vast majority of them have driven on.

Public transport wouldn't be safe either. I'd insist on working from home if that happened I'm afraid. I'd get groceries delivered.

There are plenty of people in NZ who shouldn't be driving at all, due to health, mental health, age related infirmity, physical or mental disability, or sheer stubborn stupidity.

It doesn't bear thinking about, let alone proposing.


You're so paranoid Jim.

[rainman]

... and BOOM lots of dead people and the sick smell ...

Man, that's a bit harsh. :no:

[MisterD]

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

Well that aint gonna happen, imagine the combined cost in $$ (don't got no pound or Yen sign to hand) in UK and Japan to convert road junctions and signage...plus it won't solve the issue of tired disoriented tourists in big old campers they can't handle trying to drive and look at the scenery at the same time.

[James Deuce]

Not quite so...

In Sweden they changed from LHD to RHD on September 3 1967. I even believe there was not a single accident on the day and accident figures dropped sharply for a time.

Mind you, this was Sweden - not NZ.

Actually - reading about LHD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_hand_drive#Sweden) on wikipedia is quite interesting.

Sweden.

This is NZ. The difference in driver training, personal attitudes, and a distinct lack of entitlement syndrome is what makes the difference.

I reckon you could change Italy to the left with less of a demolition derby than you'd get here, changing NZ to the right.

[JMemonic]

Perhaps part of the problem was these tourists were in a hurry to complete their journey around NZ, I recall reading they were due to fly out not long after the accident, also reading the story she admits she drifted to the left and over corrected, this is a terrible result of a panic situation.

[Grahameeboy]

Oh, Asians and now Tourists are a danger on the road because of an accident.............

[oldguy]

No need to change to RH, just use wire rope barriers along all our roads.

[Usarka]

No more danger on the open road than half the old folks making their once yearly drive to the city to go to farmers.

Or half of the city dewllers whos current driving skills consist of sitting in traffic jams suddenly finding themselves on the open road remembering the old days and giving it some stick.

[rwh]

Sweden.

This is NZ. The difference in ... personal attitudes ...

Ah yes, the 'we couldn't cope with that here' attitude ... :lol:

Richard

[James Deuce]

No Richard, actually it's worse than that. After driving overseas I can't believe the Police aren't allowed the option of roadside executions for the way at least half of all Kiwi road users drive.

I have little respect for the most of the people I'm forced to share the road with and I couldn't trust them to pull off what looks like a relatively simple task.

[Laava]

They could phase it in. All vehicles with an even no on their number plate drive on the right side of the road as of 2008 and the odd no's follow in 2009!

[James Deuce]

Nah, they'd phase it in with motorcyclists changing over first.

[Ocean1]

We're supposed to drive on the left?

[PuppetMaster]

Nah, they'd phase it in with motorcyclists changing over first.


Im sure you already spend 50% of the time on the right hand side anyway Jim :)

[Finn]

I think Kiwi's on our roads are killing more people than the odd tourist. Couple the inbred kiwi brain (incapable of two thoughts at the same time) with third world roads and it's a recipe for disaster. Tourists (especially from Europe) always struggle with our goat tracks.

[Lucy]

Lots of our tourists are from Australia, Britain and Japan (ie, they already drive on the left). I think what others have said about fatigue and large vehicles is more apt.

I knew a German couple who had a campervan holiday here and they said if they knew what our roads were like they would have just rented a car and stayed in motels. They kept left by the way, and had no crashes.

I've driven in RHD countries and kept to the right, and not crashed.

One problem, especially down south, is the lack of traffic to follow, it's easier in towns to drive on the unfamiliar side of the road as you just follow everyone else.

We need to push "NZ as a motocyclists heaven" to tourists, and get them to ride bikes and motel or camp, instead of driving these big vans that are unnecessary and difficult on our lovely windy bike heaven roads.

[vifferman]

I think Kiwi's on our roads are killing more people than the odd tourist. Couple the inbred kiwi brain (incapable of two thoughts at the same time) with third world roads and it's a recipe for disaster. Tourists (especially from Europe) always struggle with our goat tracks.
Agreed, Finn.

According to The Harold this morning, the Austrian tourist got the left-had wheels of the campervan off the side of the road in the gravelly-grassy bit, and drifted onto the wrong side of the road when trying to recover control. I'd imagine this had little to do with her being a furriner, and more to do with coping with driving a bigger vehicle than she was used to, on a road that wasn't the best. We have tards here that are familiar wth both their vehicle and the road they're on, yet still manage to crash.

I am beginning to really HATE driving - there are way too many eejits on the road that don't give driving the attention it deserves, have very poor skills, and really don't give a shit. I think the 'roadside executions' idea is an admirable one.

[duckonin]

An accident happened, sadley it was a tourist who has farked up her holiday big time, she has a life sentence to endure...But it could easily of been a NZ national driving, now most of these are out of control all of the time whilst driving any where, and not many keep to the left either, crossing the centre line is a common habit of dick wit drivers, a sad day for all...People fark up every day doing something or another..:oi-grr:

[Ocean1]

Lots of our tourists are from Australia, Britain and Japan (ie, they already drive on the left). I knew a German couple who had a campervan holiday here and they said if they knew what our roads were like they would have just rented a car and stayed in motels.

Ohyez, I've heard idjits ask questions about "popping down to Wanaka for the day", (from Auckland). In spite of the wee graphics on the map showing scale thay've got no fucken idea how big the place is, might be driven by the perception of a politicaly small country, but still...

The roads are also very different from Aus, Brit and Jap ones, narrow and un-straight, (thankyougod) and they're not used to it. Don't know if it's still true but Avis used to run free busses for their Japanese clients out to Milford and back. The carnage on the gravel was just huge, most of them had never driven on anything other than motorways and they expected to be able to drive on gravle at similar speeds. :blink:

[Rosie]

Lots of our tourists are from Australia, Britain and Japan (ie, they already drive on the left). I think what others have said about fatigue and large vehicles is more apt.

I can't believe the size of campervans that one is allowed to drive on a car licence. Some of the übercampers look like they are built on the same chassis as our work truck. I needed to get a new licence to drive the work truck (and have to log the hours I am driving and working), but put a little house on the back, instead of a tray, and you can drive it on a car licence. :spudwhat:

[sunhuntin]

SNIPPY SNIP

We need to push "NZ as a motocyclists heaven" to tourists, and get them to ride bikes and motel or camp, instead of driving these big vans that are unnecessary and difficult on our lovely windy bike heaven roads.

yeh, and then watch our acc levies really climb. we already have farm bikes [ie, not road registered] lumped in with us, never mind having tourists lumped in as well. it would get the point that we wouldnt be able to afford to register, and then thered be only tourists on the road. :pinch:

i get what you are saying though, and if there was a way to guarantee our acc levies wouldnt climb, its a great solution. :niceone: no better way to see the south island than by bike... wondering why the sky is getting so blue and then come around a corner and find the ocean right there next to you.

[Dave-]

I KNOW!

LETS LOBBY TO THE GOVNMENT WITH A BIG PROTEST RIDE AND HAVE CAMERVANS FITTED WITH PLASTIC TUBING!

you cant always do something swantiger, I'd love to see you telling helen that we should ultimatly axe tourism...

[Finn]

you cant always do something swantiger, I'd love to see you telling helen that we should ultimatly axe tourism...

She would think you said "tax tourism" and would be onto it straight away.

[Dave-]

heh...

nah I just think we ought to take some of the blame ourselves, even if we're not at fault we chose to ride a motorcycle.

we cant just go around banning things or making them 'safer' every time someone dies on a motorcycle.

[Deano]

yeh, and then watch our acc levies really climb.


ACC is only accessible to NZer's isn't it ?

Surely tourists need travel/medical insurance ?

[jrandom]

ACC is only accessible to NZer's isn't it ?

ACC provides cover for (http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/index.htm) "all New Zealand citizens, residents and temporary visitors to New Zealand".

[sunhuntin]

theyd find a way to lump them in with us

[steveb64]

No Richard, actually it's worse than that. After driving overseas I can't believe the Police aren't allowed the option of roadside executions for the way at least half of all Kiwi road users drive.

I have little respect for the most of the people I'm forced to share the road with and I couldn't trust them to pull off what looks like a relatively simple task.

I'd have to agree with you on that one. That was the main thing the missus and I noticed after we got back from a couple of years offshore in Europe. Most Kiwi drivers drive like retards. Watching cars wait almost the full length of an empty straight before they pull out to overtake, just as the straight ends - into a near blind corner... Then there's the good old Kiwi overtaking lane race - where the toerag that's been doing 70-95 kph in the front of the queue for the last 10-20 k's suddenly floors it as the lane starts - and holds 120 k's until the end of it, then they slow back down to 70-95 again. :mad: Or doing crazy last minute overtaking manouvers, only to turn off a couple of K's later - and they're maybe a hundred metres further ahead when they turn off...

And DON'T get me started on the 'wonderful' third world roads we have here... About the only part of Europe that has worse roads is Russia. And parts of Spain. And the bad bits of the Spanish roads were being repaired as fast as they could (at one point we saw a road works sign that said "Road Works 80km". It wasn't referring to the speed limit - but the length of the road works. And Yes - the WHOLE 80kms was ripped up and being rebuilt. ALL the way along. Quite awe inspiring after the shabby efforts we get here.

Sadly, I think the LTSA is largely to blame with their "If you don't teach them how to do it, then they won't put (get) themselves in a situation where they need to know how to do it" method of driver training. An example would be the driver training that Germans get versus their death rate of ~8 per 100,000 - compared to NZ's rate of ~11.5 per 100,000 (2003) - and our driver non-training.

Links to road deaths per capita:

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/multi-country_death-rates_1988-2001.htm

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-multicountry-percapita-2003.htm

http://www.cemt.org/irtad/IRTADPUBLIC/we2.html

[Swoop]

...these tourists were in a hurry to complete their journey around NZ, I recall reading they were due to fly out not long after the accident,
Had been here for 3 weeks, so had experienced our roads quite safely in that time. Drifted to the left and over-corrected appears to be the cause.

And DON'T get me started on the 'wonderful' third world roads we have here... About the only part of Europe that has worse roads is Russia.
I beg to differ on that point. Having spent time on Soviet roads, they are made of concrete... unlike the "clay, with a dab of tarseal on top" that we have to maintain here.

[Mikkel]

Ok - I'm still pretty damn sure you'll find that the road toll on bikers due to tourists (from righthand driving countries) driving on the wrong side of the road is going to be extremely low. And no - the 4 people killed this weekend would not add to it I believe.

So rest easy and give those tourist a nice wave as you zoom by - be happy that they pop by and drop some foreign dough into the NZ coffers. Every buck they chuck in is one buck less the police has to rake in through speeding enforcement... (and yes, I am aware that this is in noway correct)

If you're gonna red rep - please do leave a name and make sure it's relevant for the post you rep. Thank you unknown repper...


no such thing as a zxr250rr it's not a fucking cbrrrrrrr it's a zxr250A...comprende.....red for being a closet honda ridor lol

[Lucy]

If you're gonna red rep - please do leave a name and make sure it's relevant for the post you rep. Thank you unknown repper...

Off topic - but I thought that all reps showed who it was from automatically?

[ManDownUnder]

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

Either that (and no argument from me) or a test of sorts to prove someone is capable of driving on the other side of the road and understands the nuances of the giveway/yield rules, how the markings differ from country to country etc.

There's a little more to it than just staying on the other side of the road... but admittedly that is the bulk of it.

[Mikkel]

NZ roads are honestly not THAT bad. You have to take into account how many sealed roads you've got compared to a fairly small population base! And some of the roads are not exactly built in the most easy and accessible places.

Oh also, you do roadworks at night in the cities. Denmark could learn a lot there!


Off topic - but I thought that all reps showed who it was from automatically?

It does when you become a senior member.

[oldguy]

we cant just go around banning things or making them 'safer' every time someone dies on a motorcycle.

Never a truer word said, we chose to ride, knowing all the danger that may befall us, in some cases it is that element of danger that drives us.
If your numbers up its up, even riding in a safe manner is not going to help.

so enjoy every ride, :yes:

[steveb64]

Snip'd

I beg to differ on that point. Having spent time on Soviet roads, they are made of concrete... unlike the "clay, with a dab of tarseal on top" that we have to maintain here.

Dunno when you were there - but I lived there for nearly two years in the mid 90's (based in Moscow, but project (USAID) had offices around the country) - and while some of the roads were good enough - the vast majority that I travelled over were shockers. Remember - this is Russia we're talking about here - half the cement for making the road base would be scammed off and sold during (or pre) construction, so the mix being poured would often be rather weak (often with little or no rock chip (builders mix?) in the mix either)... and the ground underneath is formed from glacial loess (dust and rock grindings), with no real stability to it - and no bedrock, so the ground there could move almost as much as it does here...
Basically the same reasons that would cause a building to collapse (or partially collapse) every now and again.

I don't ever recall thinking "This is a good road" in conjunction with Russian roads. Sure, some of the main roads in Moscow weren't too bad, but get out of Moscow, and see how fast they deteriorate... Even the motorways...

[Grahameeboy]

Considering that NZ has one of the lowest average speed limits in the world the stats are not good and NZ is twice as bad as say the UK which has 4 times the population and higher average speed limits.

[JMemonic]

Perhaps part of the problem was these tourists were in a hurry to complete their journey around NZ, I recall reading they were due to fly out not long after the accident, also reading the story she admits she drifted to the left and over corrected, this is a terrible result of a panic situation.


Had been here for 3 weeks, so had experienced our roads quite safely in that time. Drifted to the left and over-corrected appears to be the cause.

Ok that was what I said, I miss your point


The Timaru Herald | Wednesday, 05 December 2007

Police are likely to lay charges after interviewing today the two Austrian tourists in the campervan that collided with a group of motorcycles near Fairlie on Sunday, killing four people.

The couple, aged in their 30s, were to have left New Zealand on Friday after a camping holiday, but it is expected their departure will be delayed.

Ok that is from the stuff sight, there was earlier story to the same effect that came out on the Monday after the crash, nowhere did I say that is was there was an inexperience issue, or an issue with tourists in general, which was my point.

[BarryG]

One problem with tourists who normally drive on the right could be that in an emergency, they may naturally 'correct' the way they normally do when in their own country, which maybe puts them in the opposite direction of where they need to be on NZ roads.
Visiting NZ once a year, I have to be VERY aware of which side of the road I'm on for the first few days, which is not so difficult in the city, but outside on smaller roads and less traffic (to key off), I find that pulling out of a driveway or a t-junction definitely requires conscious thought.
That said, I do think the standard of driving in NZ not wonderful - the roads are narrow and winding, and it just seems like the average motorist isn't that aware of what's coming up, and doesn't allow for anybody else on the road. Not that NZ is different from anywhere else in the world, in that latter respect, if you think about it!
I've always thought that you should be required to spend two years on two wheels before you're allowed a car licence. But that idea never went over too well whenever I brought it up!
One day, when I am King................................... :wacko:

RIP the victims.

Barry

[terbang]

Yup, Im driving a rental in the USA right now. It does feel wierd and I even feel a bit strange about the handling and road positioning skills too sitting ovet there on the left. Certainly takes a bit more concentration at intersections and I also do agree that when faced with a heavy workload, we humans do tend to revert back to previously learned habits and it could be easy to mishandle a situation.

[Mikkel]

One problem with tourists who normally drive on the right could be that in an emergency, they may naturally 'correct' the way they normally do when in their own country, which maybe puts them in the opposite direction of where they need to be on NZ roads.

Accidents happen so fast that I don't think that would have an impact at all if you're in the right lane to start out with.
In collisions it is very common to see people just locking up their brakes and doing nothing to steer away from trouble. Some places in NZ it would be better to steer into the oncoming lane to avoid a collision and other places it would be better to go off the road - however whether you're able to make that call when shit hits the fan is very much down to the individual drivers ability to react to unforeseen circumstances and doesn't rely much upon what side of the road you're used to travel on.


Having done the "switch" from left to right back and forth several times now I must say I find it easier and easier to do. However, yesterday when I went for gas while at a track day I caught myself going for the wrong lane coming out of the service station simply because my mind had been reset by running the track with no marked lanes. Oh, and as you say - there wasn't any traffic, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened at all if there had been. But still... an eyeopener.

[Pixie]

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

What's national pride got to do with the side of the road you drive on?:killingme
The Swedes switched.
We wouldn't have to drive crap aussie cars.
And as kiwis can't pilot a car anyway, it wouldn't affect the road toll

[RT527]

If you look at the photo (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4307421a24035.html) of the crashscene it is obvious that the campervan lost control and swerved into the other lane. As such it's not that they were travelling in the wrong lane that caused the accident - but that they lost control and THEN travelled into the path of the oncoming motorcycles.

There might be a problem with tourists driving in NZ - but it has more to do with the fact that you can go in and rent a big ass campervan on you normal car license without ever having had any experience driving vehicles of that size. Combine that with narrow windy mountain roads and you have a rather nasty cocktail...

As for you german friend not being able to drive - it's probably more gender related than nationality related... :dodge::chase:

ok ok j/k


As I said in another post somewhere on here , when I saw the news that night, I very quickly was able to see what had happened.

I see the results of accidents on numerous occasions, to the point where I can almost work out just what has happened, this comes from experience and actually talking with SCU officers.

What has also taken me a long time to come to grips with is the lives wasted and the thought that I can do something about it....I cant...its an accident and all anyone can do is go and do their best to help.

Its actually up to NZ`s Macho ego-driven drivers to do something about it themselves, change how we perceive driving to be to what it should be, Which is a privilige, not a right.

What would be better for everyone on this site to do for the ones lost is change your attitude to driving .


As someone on here pointed out an arrow on the windscreen with the words drive on the left in bold letters would be the most simplistic way to save Lives, and the Cheapest.


God bless and support to anybody who is affected by a road fatality, wether its someone you Know or family.


Drive safe over Xmas , if you Dont, Ill be around to see yas in a bright red truck....and know that I wont judge and will do everything to help , even if you cause it!.

[rwh]

As someone on here pointed out an arrow on the windscreen with the words drive on the left in bold letters would be the most simplistic way to save Lives, and the Cheapest.

Agreed that it's simple and cheap ... but is it effective? It's just a static logo or piece of text on the dashboard; I'd read it once (and it's telling me what I already know), and ignore it from then on. Like the text in the middle of my tacho - does it say "x1000rpm"? Or something else? I don't know, I'd have to have another look.

Perhaps a video camera with an analysis computer that can figure out what side of the road you're on and beep at you? You'd need a cancel button for one-way roads, of course.

Richard

[Pixie]

Here's an interesting proposition: If we had LHD cars and drove on the left all the arseholes that can't judge the width of their 4wds and cars would keep left rather that hug the centre of the road.
This was the case in Sweden prior to the change in the sixties.

[Ixion]

Not quite so...

In Sweden they changed from LHD to RHD on September 3 1967. I even believe there was not a single accident on the day and accident figures dropped sharply for a time.

Mind you, this was Sweden - not NZ.

Actually - reading about LHD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_hand_drive#Sweden) on wikipedia is quite interesting.


However there is a critical difference to NZ (which I had forgotten until Mr Pixie jogged my memory)

Prior to the switch to driving on the right, Sweden had a kept left rule. BUT .. virtualy all their cars were left hand drive - ie they drove on the left but the cars were set up for keep right. . So when they switched they actually normalised things. It's not surprising that accidents went down. (No I don't know why they ahd such a weird system. They're Swedish, enough said)

This would be the reverse for NZ. =If we changed,for years we would have many many cars with the steering on the "wrong" side.

[jonbuoy]

Its easy to remember what side of the road your supposed to be on in heavy traffic or around town or for the first few days of driving. The problem is when you've been driving for a week or so and are a bit more relaxed about it. I did the same thing myself a few years ago in Europe - pulled out onto a country road onto the wrong side - first thing in the morning after having driven around for a few weeks. Luckily my passenger figured out I'd fucked up before anything bad happened, it was in a right hand drive car though. Its easier to do than you'd think.

[Swoop]

Ok that was what I said, I miss your point
Just the fact that they had been travelling for a little while. Presumably both had turns at the wheel, so would have become "acclimatised" to driving here.
I am wondering if there was the distraction of the bikes appearing from around the corner ahead of them, or whether it was something else that caused her to drift to the left?

[Swoop]

Dunno when you were there
Late '80's.

Remember - this is Russia we're talking about here - half the cement for making the road base would be scammed off and sold during (or pre) construction, so the mix being poured would often be rather weak
Yup... Good ole' Comrades "helping each other out..." ($$$'s)
The first instance of "tilt-slab-construction" of buildings that I saw, was there...
The earthquake in Georgia came later...!:bye: