Mona Morriss... justice is served?

[sunhuntin]

The woman who murdered Marton pensioner Mona Morriss in 2005 will spend at least 19 years in jail.

Tracey Jean Goodman was sentenced in the High Court at Wanganui today, after being found guilty in September of murdering 83-year-old Mrs Morriss on January 3, 2005, and burgling her flat.

A major police inquiry into the murder took 18 months and at one point involved 160 suspects. The Crown called 110 witnesses during the four-week trial.

Goodman confessed to multiple burglaries during the course of the investigation but always maintained she had never been inside Mrs Morriss' flat.

Detective Sergeant Tim Smith said Goodman had "burgled, then bashed and clinically executed Mrs Morriss".

After the guilty verdict Mrs Morriss' family said the four-week trial and lengthy police investigation had been "long and arduous".

They said the verdict went some way towards giving closure to an "emotional and torturous" part of the family's lives.

Mrs Morriss' eldest son Kevin Morriss said he could never forgive Goodman for what she had done.

Mrs Morriss had nine children, 28 grandchildren, and 19 great-grandchildren.

- NZPA


and the worst part? her children, and following generations once they start work, will all be chipping in to keep this bitch alive.

[98tls]

:bash:Why not just end the misery for all concerned and cut her head off.

[Hitcher]

and the worst part? her children, and following generations once they start work, will all be chipping in to keep this bitch alive.

That is the price we all pay for living in a society that aspires to being civilised.

[sunhuntin]

civilised? if civilised means we keep people who attack and murder defenseless 80 year olds alive for no reason, then id much rather not live here.
what possible reason do we have for keeping murderers alive? not like they will ever contribute to society in a positive way, so whats the point?

[Hitcher]

We've played this game before. If you want to change New Zealand's system of justice and revoke our obligations to international human rights treaties and agreements, start your own political party and see who will vote for you. Failing that, if you want to live somewhere where the government kills people whose actions offend, move to a banana republic of your choice.

[sunhuntin]

it just annoys the hell out me. many workers struggle to earn and pay the taxes, part of which goes towards keeping criminals alive and healthy. i dont see the point... its like fireworks. burning money on nothing.

[Sully60]

That is the price we all pay for living in a society that aspires to being civilised.

Maybe when a certain level of crime has been committed and the perpetrator proven guilty and convicted their civil rights should be forfeited?
The convicted criminal’s last choice made of free will is to decide which third world country to serve their sentence.

Tracey Jean Goodman obviously made a desision to put aside any civilty she may have had for Mona so what right does she have to be treated civilly.

As you may have guessed this sort of thing makes me mad.
Must go know blood pressure is increasing to dangerous levels!

[RantyDave]

Failing that, if you want to live somewhere where the government kills people whose actions offend, move to a banana republic of your choice.
The United States, for instance.

Dave

[98tls]

A dog attacks someone and theres hell to pay,its found and destroyed no questions asked and so it should be but yet when a human being commits a far worse act theres a whole army of people employed to protect there rights,go figure.:blink:

[mstriumph]

That is the price we all pay for living in a society that aspires to being civilised.
yes
apparantly most governments, like the recent howard aus. government, only considers it 'civilized' to kill people when it decides it needs a small war to boost the economy [or watever]

only then they call it 'patriotism'
[and i've avoided making the obvious quote :innocent:]

[Hitcher]

The United States, for instance.

Indeed. A country where water-boarding and other forms of state-sanctioned torture are legal, and where human rights enjoyed in many other countries have been progressively eroded since 9/11.

People need to be clear about the difference between "justice" and "revenge".

[mstriumph]

...................... if you want to live somewhere where the government kills people whose actions offend, move to a banana republic of your choice.

are we back to the police shooting unarmed people in aus. again ..........

[Hitcher]

A dog attacks someone and theres hell to pay,its found and destroyed no questions asked and so it should be but yet when a human being commits a far worse act theres a whole army of people employed to protect there rights,go figure.

I don't see your point. The death penalty isn't the only time that different laws are applied to dogs rather than to people. Would you like to have to wear a collar with a registration tag attached to it?

[mstriumph]

....................
People need to be clear about the difference between "justice" and "revenge".

both are a form of consequence

it is the apparant LACK of justice that makes quite reasonable people think of revenge...

[mstriumph]

I don't see your point. The death penalty isn't the only time that different laws are applied to dogs rather than to people. Would you like to have to wear a collar with a registration tag attached to it?


that's thin
as anyone knows who has to carry a driver's licence or gun permit ............

[mstriumph]

a thought on the subject of justice mebbe

it is 'just' that this perpetrator gets removed from society for a long time

it is NOT 'just' that the victim's family .... or anyone ELSE who abhors this sort of barbarity has to pay through the nose for the perpetrator's upkeep during this time [how much is is now to keep a crim. inside? $80,000 a year or somesuch?]

and yet, it is ALSO not 'just' for a government to decide to kill the perpetrator and avoid the cost of incarceration whilst there is a proportion of the population, like some here, who think that killers SHOULD be jailed rather than executed......

so............
how about a system where, when a killer is convicted, the killer's family and friends and people who think they should be jailed rather than executed sign up to support them in jail ......... and start paying $$ per week for as long as the sentence lasts

- but, if the contributions fall below, let's be fair and say half, the cost of that upkeep
then
the killer is executed

seems to me that such a system would deliver 'justice' much more even- handedly than the current system does?

[98tls]

I don't see your point. The death penalty isn't the only time that different laws are applied to dogs rather than to people. Would you like to have to wear a collar with a registration tag attached to it? Not making a point really,just dismayed to read that this woman gets life inside with a no parole period for 19 years,how can that be considered punishment for bashing an old lady to death? besides that the cost of keeping her alive..what for? Nice that according to the News i just heard on the radio that the old ladys family are happy with the punishment handed out,i certainly wouldnt be.

[Wolf]

Build an honest-to-goodness Gulag with stark concrete walls, slab beds, one dim light per cell and feed the bastards on a subsistence diet that they have to earn by producing goods that can be sold.

Of course, we'd have to pay 'em fuck all per unit in order to undercut the Chinese imports and still turn a profit so they'd better be bloody productive if they want more than a slice of dry toast for their meal... Especially since their income will be taxed at 60% to pay compensation to the families whose lives they wrecked.

Seriously.

And life imprisonment for life - not a few years with three huge meals a day, free ciggies and chocolate, comfortable bed, TV, games, videos, books and taxpayer-funded courses (after which they get released with a cash pay-out so they can fuck prostitutes, get pissed, smoke some P and then catch a bus to wherever the blokes who grassed 'em up live and "deal to" the narks.)

The prison crematorium should be clearly visible from the gates as they enter and from the small exercise yard - because they won't be able to see it when they finally leave prison through it...

Put all murderers and rapists in prison for life and make 'em pay their own way as well as compensation.

Put all the thieves on chain gangs two days a week and make 'em earn the money to pay back what they took - in addition to court costs and any expenses they incur by failing to turn up to work detail.

That Goodman slapper should spend the rest of her life sewing school bags by day and sleeping on a thin mattress by night.

[Hitcher]

seems to me that such a system would deliver 'justice' much more even- handedly than the current system does?

Why encumber families and relatives for criminal actions for which they were not directly responsible? If they are at fault for a family member's failings, then convict them of that. Otherwise leave them alone. The state has to take responsibility for the state's laws. As citizens we have responsibilities, such as agreeing to accept things that we individually may not support, and to do things that we may not have the capacity to do ourselves.

[terbang]

We've played this game before. If you want to change New Zealand's system of justice and revoke our obligations to international human rights treaties and agreements, start your own political party and see who will vote for you. Failing that, if you want to live somewhere where the government kills people whose actions offend, move to a banana republic of your choice.

Hah the irony. I now have resident status in Saudi Arabia... I sort of have two countries now at each end of the spectrum. One is all touchey feely where they give prisoners, during their short stay, their favourite marmite and private masturbation facilities and the other has, well, Chop Chop square.. Now Darwin had a theory..?

[sunhuntin]

Build an honest-to-goodness Gulag with stark concrete walls, slab beds, one dim light per cell and feed the bastards on a subsistence diet that they have to earn by producing goods that can be sold.

Of course, we'd have to pay 'em fuck all per unit in order to undercut the Chinese imports and still turn a profit so they'd better be bloody productive if they want more than a slice of dry toast for their meal... Especially since their income will be taxed at 60% to pay compensation to the families whose lives they wrecked.

Seriously.

And life imprisonment for life - not a few years with three huge meals a day, free ciggies and chocolate, comfortable bed, TV, games, videos, books and taxpayer-funded courses (after which they get released with a cash pay-out so they can fuck prostitutes, get pissed, smoke some P and then catch a bus to wherever the blokes who grassed 'em up live and "deal to" the narks.)

The prison crematorium should be clearly visible from the gates as they enter and from the small exercise yard - because they won't be able to see it when they finally leave prison through it...

Put all murderers and rapists in prison for life and make 'em pay their own way as well as compensation.

Put all the thieves on chain gangs two days a week and make 'em earn the money to pay back what they took - in addition to court costs and any expenses they incur by failing to turn up to work detail.

That Goodman slapper should spend the rest of her life sewing school bags by day and sleeping on a thin mattress by night.


i think i love you!

seriously... the number of prison guards that come in lpg bottles to be filled so the prisoners can have a bbq aint funny. id love nothing more than to hear that one leaked and blew the whole damn place sky high.
why the hell do prisoners deserve a bbq? why do they deserve skytv, underfloor heating, kfc, cellphones with pron on them and everything else they have. lets face it... our prisons must be luxury, considering the number who reoffend every winter so they can be put back into the good life? that aint justice... its rubbing salt in the wounds of the victims.

[mstriumph]

Why encumber families and relatives for criminal actions for which they were not directly responsible? If they are at fault for a family member's failings, then convict them of that. Otherwise leave them alone. The state has to take responsibility for the state's laws. As citizens we have responsibilities, such as agreeing to accept things that we individually may not support, and to do things that we may not have the capacity to do ourselves.mmmmmmmmmm no - my point was that contributions to the cost of the killers inprisonment should be voluntary for friends, family and supporters alike ---

perhaps an additional word in my post would have made that clearer


the killer's family and friends and other people who think they should be jailed rather than executed sign up to support them in jail

sorry for the confusion

[Wolf]

And while we're on a theme here, this "Restorative Justice" scheme needs to be revamped so that not merely are the victims and their families/friends permitted to tell the perps precisely how badly their lives have been fucked up without some mealy-mouthed little "floppy-cucumber" telling them to "tone it down so you don't upset the poor victim-of-an-oppressive-society", they should be actively encouraged to get forensic scientists, coroners, medical professionals etc to inform the perps - with explicitly graphic photos if possible - precisely how much they fucked people's lives up.

The crims should enter their sentence knowing without doubt that they deserve what is happening to them - be it spending the rest of their lives on a chain gang paying back the money they embezzled or being removed from society for the rest of their natural lives.

Having the victims tell them "Oh yeah, you kinda upset me" and then having some floppy cucumber tell them that it's not their fault and society should recognise their understandable (due to their hard lives to date) need to harm others (thus negating what the victims said during "restorative justice"), is not acceptable. Especially since they frequently go from there to a few months or years living in better luxury than what the victims of their crimes have (because the victims are giving a large chunk of what they earn to keep said prisoners in luxury.)

[sunhuntin]

fully agreed. a good friend of mine was murdered about a week before mona was. i recently found out that her parents struggled to afford to travel to wellington for the trial. im almost 100% certain that the murderers family had all their travel covered by the tax payer.

however... i do know that karma has rammed itself up the murderers ass at least once, taking the form of a broom handle. i can only hope to god he never walks out on parole.

[Wolf]

fully agreed. a good friend of mine was murdered about a week before mona was. i recently found out that her parents struggled to afford to travel to wellington for the trial. im almost 100% certain that the murderers family had all their travel covered by the tax payer.

That sucks. As far as I'm concerned, the tax dollars should go to the victims and their families, not the accused. The accused are already getting tax-payer-funded lawyers, they and their families don't need anything else.

Automatic name suppression for those accused. Name suppression automatically dropped once convicted.

[tri boy]

Who's been to the OLD Melbourne Jail? (think Ned Kelly).
That place is the real McCoy. 6x8 cells built on top of each other.
The sounds of corporal punishment echoing through the place, and the ocassional hanging.
Human rights are for humans. Not f**ked up scum that murder loved old ladies.

[mstriumph]

............

however... i do know that karma has rammed itself up the murderers ass at least once, taking the form of a broom handle. i can only hope to god he never walks out on parole.

rest easy
i'd say he's not going to be walking ANYWHERE comfortably after having a broom handle .........??

[Her_C4]

That sucks. As far as I'm concerned, the tax dollars should go to the victims and their families, not the accused. The accused are already getting tax-payer-funded lawyers, they and their families don't need anything else.

Automatic name suppression for those accused. Name suppression automatically dropped once convicted.

Ahh yes the old 'offenders rights versus the victims rights' debate (or should that be 'debacle'...). This has been the subject of ongoing discussion on many forums including this one, and rightly so.

If you feel as strongly about these issues as you all appear to, why not lend your support to a group of people who are doing their utmost to get their message out to ordinary New Zealanders?
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/index.htm



Vision Statement
A Safe New Zealand

Mission Statement
To obtain a large base of community support, and ensure safety for all New Zealanders from violent and criminal offending, through education, development of effective penal policies, and the promotion of responsible behaviour, accountable parenting, and respect for each other at all levels of society.

Sensible Sentencing Goals:
To ensure that adults and children are equally and adequately protected from those who have committed murder and other serious violent crimes. Such protection to require the offender to serve all of the sentences which are imposed.
Life means Life.

To enact legislation that will ensure that the early release of offenders on parole is not automatic, and that parole be granted only in exceptional cases where the offender can clearly demonstrate that he or she is no longer a risk to society.

To initiate adequate legislation and policies to ensure that serious violent offenders receive the maximum penalties as prescribed by the Crimes Act.

To ensure that victims of violent crime and their families or their representatives to have input into court proceedings prior to sentencing.

To ensure that juries to be able to recommend sentencing to Judges

To ensure that any offenders who commit multiple crimes receive cumulative sentences rather than concurrent sentences.

Sensible Sentencing Long Term Objective
To allow Law and Order to be properly treated and developed as foundations of New Zealand society, along with Health and Education.


The Trust is absolutely committed to reducing violent crime through community awareness, education and research.



Individually we may not be able to achieve much, but together we WILL make a difference... :2thumbsup

[Ocean1]

Ahh yes the old 'offenders rights versus the victims rights' debate

Yes. Interesting that health services policies are clearly constrained by budget considerations, but corrections is very much driven by human rights, with few constraints at all...

[Wolf]

but corrections is very much driven by human rights, with few constraints at all...
Except, they seem to think the victims aren't human while the crims are.

"Can't do that as it would infringe the prisoners rights" - with nary a thought for the rights of the victims of said criminals. Why is it the govt will give untold monetary aid and other support to the crims while it's volunteer organisations like Victim Support - who get fuck all from the tax-payer trough if anything - who left to deal with the victims?

Victim Support came cap in hand to somewhere I used to work wanting any old computers we could spare as they couldn't afford any. I got the task of building up some machines from the junked ones and setting them up with basic software to do general office work.

I really enjoyed being able to help them in some way but we shouldn't have to - the govt should be funding them first and foremost and the crims' should have to pay their own way or rely on charitable organisations.

I'm sure they'd get charity - a number of Christians said I should forgive an ex friend of mine for sexually violating a five-year-old and said he needed support, not censure.

OK, the support he should have had was a stout wooden frame and a length of hemp rope, as he reoffended several times and the bleeding-heart judge he most recently went up in front of gave him a light sentence despite his numerous previous convictions for the same thing.

But anyway, I'm sure there are enough organisations into professional forgiveness to pony up the cash to help convicted criminals; it's the victim support organisations that need the Corrections Dep't budget.

[sunhuntin]

jeepers, wolf. those poor bloody kids! why the hell was he let of? did he have a bad childhood, so he has to ruin someone elses as well?

bit like the judge in aus who let those boys off after the group rape of a 10 year old, saying the 10 year old likely agreed, despite the fact their law states a child under the age of 12 cannot consent to sexual intercourse.

[Wolf]

jeepers, wolf. those poor bloody kids! why the hell was he let of? did he have a bad childhood, so he has to ruin someone elses as well?
According to the judge, he wasn't bad enough - despite numerous convictions - to merit "Preventive Detention" so he got another short sentence. Maybe after he's raped a few more girls some judge will manage to fire his only functional neuron and get the hint the bloke's a fucking menace to society and should be locked up for a decent amount of time.

But yeah, hard childhood, father beat him, broken home etc etc - he's a poor misunderstood wee mite.

Was my friend for nearly 20 years; trusted him with my life, I did. But, as my IQ is around a hundred times higher than that of a judge, I cut ties with him after it came to light what he'd done the first time he was convicted.

Kid fuckers do not deserve to be let out into society once convicted. Fuck rehabilitation - they cannot be rehabilitated. They are recidivist offenders and only ever get worse, not better.

Any that have supposedly become rehabilitated have merely learned what to say to fool the psychs (they're mentally sick, not stupid) so they can get out and offend again.

That ex friend of mine - I'd take great delight in transporting him from the holding cell to prison in a blacked out van and saying "oh, did you miss your chance to savour your last view of the outside world? By the way, that building over there is your way out - part of you through the chimney, the rest through a little slot in the far wall."

The kids he's molested all get a life sentence of misery, mistrust and fear. He only gets a year or two every time he is caught.

[98tls]

In 20 years or so all the tree huggers will be screaming "cut his fucken head off" but as is par for the course with tree huggers its way to late.

[Lias]

That is the price we all pay for living in a society that aspires to being civilised.

This is the price we pay for living in a society where the rights of the criminals now outweigh the the right sof the victims, where so called "justice" is about rehabilitation and a life of luxury for the criminals.

When you commit serious crimes you give up your rights to be part of a civilized society, and the protections that being part of it entails. Crminals do not deserve human rights. End of story.

Bring back the death penalty.
Bring back hard labour on bread & water.
Bring back chain gangs.
Take away the tv's, the playstations, the rehabilitation, the luxury.

Lets make prison about what it should be, hardship ,suffering, misery and PUNISHMENT for criminals.

[Wolf]

Bring back the death penalty.
Nah, kill 'em and you can't wring weregild from them for the lives they've wrecked. Kill 'em and they get a quick easy escape from the misery they inflicted on those they harmed. Kill 'em and they won't ever grow to realise they are filth and deserve the little brick box they live in - it's a poor lesson the student does not survive to learn from - and I do mean "survive" (not "live").

Lock em in a crude drab box, make 'em work to defray the victim support costs of the survivors - replace lost income, counselling etc. Let 'em feel the full weight of their crime up to the day they die. Let 'em know that they are in prison because they voluntarily gave up their right to live within society.

Make sure they have three nutritious meals a day - the same ones every day - so they live long productive lives (and make 'em pay for them.)

Every night, let 'em watch a movie - "Dumb and Dumber".

Play soothing music while they work - the elevator version of "Girl from Ipanema"

After all, we must provide them comfort...

:devil2:

[Hitcher]

This is the price we pay for living in a society where the rights of the criminals now outweigh the the right sof the victims, where so called "justice" is about rehabilitation and a life of luxury for the criminals.

When you commit serious crimes you give up your rights to be part of a civilized society, and the protections that being part of it entails. Crminals do not deserve human rights. End of story.

Bring back the death penalty.
Bring back hard labour on bread & water.
Bring back chain gangs.
Take away the tv's, the playstations, the rehabilitation, the luxury.

Lets make prison about what it should be, hardship ,suffering, misery and PUNISHMENT for criminals.

Do I hear the faint and plaintive wailing of the world's smallest violin?

[Lias]

Do I hear the faint and plaintive wailing of the world's smallest violin?

Time to get some hearing aids old chap, thats the sound of dueling banjo's.

[Hitcher]

Time to get some hearing aids old chap, thats the sound of dueling banjo's.

Silly me. I should have realised that rednecks call violins "fiddles"...

[Lias]

Darn tootin.