ANOTHER police car does a u-turn in front of a biker = crash

[Steam]

What the f%#k!? Is this becoming a legitimate police tactic or something?? Once is an accident... twice... hmmm...

nah, I'm sure there's nothing to that conspiracy theory, but hell, what are the police doing these days in vehicle handling training??


"A Tauranga man is in hospital with serious leg injuries after a police car turned in front of his motorbike on State Highway 2 on Monday.
Police say the collision happened near Waitakaruru after the patrol car did a U-turn, believing the road was clear, and turned across the path of the BMW motorcycle.
The bike rider, 44, was taken to Middlemore Hospital. He is in a serious but non-life threatening condition.
Police are seeking any witnesses to the crash and have notified the Independent Police Conduct Authority."

[Qkchk]

Any details yet?

[Steam]

I just heard it on the radio, I will post a link in my first post when it comes on the internet later this evening. The rider is in Middlemore hospital.

[deanohit]

Jeez, thats a bit off, you'd think they would all be super careful after the last incident.

[manwithav8]

Jeez, thats a bit off, you'd think they would all be super careful after the last incident.

especially since the last one STILL isn't resolved.. How long can it take to sort out who was in the wrong.

Wonder if this recent cop is already on sick leave and will be returning to full duty in a couple of days...

[Toaster]

Jeez, thats a bit off, you'd think they would all be super careful after the last incident.

Rumour has it that police are human beings just like the rest of us. Shock horror :gob:

[James Deuce]

There was a clear lesson from the last accident - take it easy when you see a Police car and expect him to do the unexpected, more so than other road users.

You HAVE to take responsibility for your own safety.

Remember that people do NOT compute speed if they do not have two reference points at least a metre apart. They only compute distance. He "saw" the motorcycle, but perceived it as stationary thanks to the effects of motion camouflage.

For the anti-cop brigade: I'm not making excuses for Cops or anyone else. It's how we humans work. We're designed to do 20km/hr, tops. We haven't adapted to 100km/hr yet, we've learned some techniques for planning ahead at those speeds.

[Deano]

It's not just about computing speed though - the wife and I have twice been following a patrol car and had it veer to the left then do a u turn in front of us with no warning.

I guess the adrenalin kicks in when a call is received but there is no excuse for not checking the mirrors and hitting the lights first.

[cowboyz]

Rumour has it that police are human beings just like the rest of us. Shock horror :gob:
no. not quite like the rest of us.




For the anti-cop brigade: I'm not making excuses for Cops or anyone else. It's how we humans work. We're designed to do 20km/hr, tops. We haven't adapted to 100km/hr yet, we've learned some techniques for planning ahead at those speeds.

I am not anti-cop. Just pro-realistic. The cop in my sig did a U turn in front of me to pull me over. I didnt bitch about it cause I am too lazy. If the cop is doing a U turn to ticket someone then they know EXACTLY how fast that person is travelling. And arent the highway patrol trained in how to operate a vehicle better than the average motorist (please please dont say no to this..... I dont think I will ever sleep again if you tell me the police dont get any advanced driver training and are allowed to go chasing people.

[Deano]

Rumour has it that police are human beings just like the rest of us. Shock horror :gob:

I expect there should be consequences for poor performance, in any profession.

Perhaps it's a training issue ?

[James Deuce]

It's not just about computing speed though - the wife and I have twice been following a patrol car and had it veer to the left then do a u turn in front of us with no warning.

I guess the adrenalin kicks in when a call is received but there is no excuse for not checking the mirrors and hitting the lights first.

Even if he did check the mirrors there's no guarantee he perceived the bike to even exist. As much as we all like it to be different, bikes are harder to see and the root cause of that issue goes beyond the bright colours vs dark colours debate.

[Pex Adams]

I remember Andrew Templeton (ww.roadsafe.co.nz) saying during one of his training seminars, "every motorcyclist is in someway responsible for 99% of the accidents they are involved in, there is always something that the biker could do to avoid 'that' situation from happening".

I realize that there is fuck all we can do we a guy decides to do a U-Turn on a blind corner. Nonetheless we should all know to expect cage's to do stupid things.

I hope Mr BMW (whoever you are), that you recover well.

[Deano]

Sorry - I didn't mention that the wife and I were in the car both times.

Perhaps if they had to count to 3 before responding to a call, in order to check around, or maybe 5 or 10 seconds........

[skelstar]

...take it easy when you see a Police car and expect him to do the unexpected, more so than other road users.
Is there any other vehicle that you are more careful around when on the open road Jim?

[James Deuce]

Hats.

Hat wearers are either 300 years old or have ego/penis size issues.

[Rockbuddy]

do these cops not have to use indicators before they do a u turn?

[Drum]

A white lawn bowls hat in the rear window, or one of those nodding dogs is also a warning signal for potentially erratic behavior.

[McJim]

Hats.

Hat wearers are either 300 years old or have ego/penis size issues.

Drivers with hoodies are my nemesis..mental age 3...with bags of testosterone.....:Pokey:

[Mom]

A white lawn bowls hat in the rear window, or one of those nodding dogs is also a warning signal for potentially erratic behavior.


Drivers with hoodies are my nemesis..mental age 3...with bags of testosterone.....:Pokey:

Only safety message I tell my kids...

Beware the HAT!!!!

Dont care if it a lawn bowler, cap, hoodie or what have you......hats can and will kill you!

[Kwaka14]

Drivers with hoodies are my nemesis..mental age 3...with bags of testosterone.....:Pokey:

And no peripheral vision whatsoever... my nemisis too...

[McJim]

And no peripheral vision whatsoever... my nemisis too...

Yeah - I really wish someone would start a campaign about leaky modified car syndrome. Then those dumbarses wouldn't have to drive with their hoods up eh? :rofl:

Hope the Beemer rider comes through alright and gets a nice bike bought for him from the police insurance fund.

[sprag]

Don't know if this has been posted but this was in the paper this morning

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10481634

[placidfemme]

now why does this not surpirse me? Oh thats right I've nearly been hit by a cop doing an illegal u-turn for no reason... go nz police!

[Qkchk]

Its not making life any easier for the Police Public Relations Office.......

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10481634




I know Steam was covering this yesterday but I could find the Thread - Mods do you want to merge them?

[Colapop]

No good can come of this. The cop bashers will be out in force. As will the "speeding irresponsible biker" haters. No win situation - the Merc driver will go on speeding too...

[90s]

In pursuit of the almighty dollar, it doesn't seem to matter who gets hurt.
I have no problem with police chasing criminals. The risk they take should be measured against the public benefit. The benefit of catching a speeder doing 110kph and not about to cause a serious RTA is not the same as a fleeing robber who has shot a farmer dead.
I have known police drivers and done a little of the police driver training stuff in the UK - its all about looking ahead and being aware. It takes seconds to estblish the way for a u-turn is clear. Seems good driving skills are not needed by the police themselves anymore.

Now, wasn't "to protect and serve" something to do with policing?

[Nasty]

Two major accidents in almost as many weeks ... are the police now going to put in a policy or enforce a policy on safe turning. Mind you the way they are going they are eliminating the motorcyclists one by one :(

[James Deuce]

I know Steam was covering this yesterday but I could find the Thread - Mods do you want to merge them?

You can click on Steam's Public profile, then click the "Find all threads started by Steam" link. Because that one was recent it will somewhere near the top of the list.

[spudchucka]

They don't need a policy, it comes down to individual responsibility as a road user, just because its a police car doesn't excuse the driver from safe driving practices.

Don't take this as a comment in relation to this crash, I have no idea of what the circumstances are, its just a comment in relation to policy & driver responsibility.

[Usarka]

Company culture and policy directly influences how employees behave.

From the outside, the culture seems to be more of enforcement than protecting the public.....

[scracha]

Company culture and policy directly influences how employees behave.

From the outside, the culture seems to be more of enforcement than protecting the public.....

So I'd assume the dibble will get done for reckless driving or was Helen Clark on the back?

[Tank]

a speeder doing 110kph

Just to clarify he was doing 142 not 110.

Regardless - that was really sad news to come into this morning. There has been enough damage caused by this over the last week to last a lifetime.

I believe that the police need to do something about this as a whole (what I just dont know), but it seems that they are so 'active' in chasing (i.e. the see a speeder and balm they U turn and are after it. No pulling indicating 3 seconds. Pulling over. Checking if the road is clear THEN turning.

I do believe that the officers in this (and the other case) should be charged appropriately, and be stood down from driving police cars - they are obviously not responsible drivers.

[spudchucka]

Company culture and policy directly influences how employees behave.

From the outside, the culture seems to be more of enforcement than protecting the public.....

The police have more policies and general instructions than a bull could shit. They don't need a policy in relation to basic safe driving, it comes down to individual responsibility.

[Usarka]

I agree, policy doesn't change behaviour. Remove the word policy and replace it with culture.

Not meaning to bring up the "quota" argument again, but a key performance indicator for traffic is the number of tickets (whether "officially" or not isnt important).

In any job if an individual is given a priority or a key measure they strive to meet it, often overriding other aspects of the job. The scale of this behaviour depends on the individual and some even go the other way, but most people try to meet what is expected of them.

If you are saying it is solely the individuals responsibility and fault (assuming they are guilty of course) then we're soon going to need to start questioning the recruitment and training standards especially if there is another incident in the near future. Coincidences rarely are, imho....

[Flatcap]

At least this copper had the decency to feel bad, unlike that cocksucker in Buller

[spudchucka]

Not meaning to bring up the "quota" argument again, but a key performance indicator for traffic is the number of tickets (whether "officially" or not isnt important).

They want one ticket per hour of road policing and if you work as a full time traffic cop you can do that in your first hour of duty if you want to. That's 8 or 10 tickets a day. Spend half an hour parked at a reasonably busy intersection and see how many people infringe the road rules, it is very easy to achieve "the quota".

If cops are constantly stuffing up on the road I would look more at their supervision rather than initial recruitment standards. If they aren't measuring up on the job or they are just getting hold of the wrong end of the stick for some reason then it is the supervisors responsibility to pull them into line.

[ManDownUnder]

Sorry - I didn't mention that the wife and I were in the car both times.

Perhaps if they had to count to 3 before responding to a call, in order to check around, or maybe 5 or 10 seconds........

Wouldn't it be nice to point it out to the cop they didn't something wrong... with an airhorn at point blank range...!

[vifferman]

Just to clarify he was doing 142 not 110.
Allegedly doing 142. :nono:



I believe that the police need to do something about this as a whole (what I just dont know), but it seems that they are so 'active' in chasing (i.e. the see a speeder and balm they U turn and are after it. No pulling indicating 3 seconds. Pulling over. Checking if the road is clear THEN turning.
The recent accidents do seem to indicate that there is a need for the police to re-evaluate their policy, culture and training. The whole business of having road rules and issuing tickets when these rules are broken is supposed to be to make the roads safer. If in the process of doing this, they are having accidents, or acting without regard for the safety of other road users, then that casts the whole road safety enforcement program in a very bad light.

In any case, there are some fundamental problems with the whole "road safety programme". It's supposed to have three prongs: Education, Enforcement and Engineering. It seems to me that the prong most likely to "get the general public onside" with the programme is in fact the education one, especially if it is actually educational and informative, rather than propaganda and sloganeering.
F'rinstance - how many times each day, do you see people who don't know how to use flush medians, roundabouts, indicators, pedestrian crossings, and who don't know/observe simple things like "the maximum speed at which you may pass a school bus stopped on either side of the road is 30km/h"?
Education about following distances, how to control a skid, simple safety checks on your car/bike, etc.
I don't think, "If you're prepared to speed, be prepared to kill" counts as education. It certainly didn't have a positive effect on me when I received a reminder in the mail about how many points I have on my licence (2,379), and when they were incurred / due to expire. I honestly thought, "That's a good idea - I was unsure about when exactly that was!" And then there was the preach bold type on the next page:
"If you're prepared to speed, be prepared to kill" and that undid all the goodwill. I didn't think :Oops: "Yes - that's right; I must not speed in case I kill people!". Instead I just felt :argh: at the propaganda-ising I was being subjected to. What a waste of my tax dollars.
Err... ticket dollars.

OK, rant mode off....

[avgas]

Everything on the road has the potential to kill you. The day you morons learn this is the day you stop complaining about cops doing u turns.
Go get yourself and accident and get some hard learn.
The only thing you can guarantee on the road is you.

[Steam]

The day you morons learn this is the day you stop complaining about cops doing u turns.

Right, right, I guess I should stop complaining about drunk drivers, or boy-racers trying to force me off the road and nudging my rear wheel at the lights too.
OF COURSE everything on the road can kill us, and as riders we must take all responsibility to minimise those risks but there are some things just impossible to plan for.
I wouldn't complain if it was a force of nature causing the injury, like a meteor or a flood or a mechanical failure, but in this case it's simple negligence by a driver who didn't care enough to check before he u-turned. Simple and stupid.
That's worthy of complaining.

[WRT]

Hats.

Hat wearers are either 300 years old or have ego/penis size issues.

Hmm, you could be onto something here, Jim.

[Fatjim]

Until recently my most feared list was

1. Taxis.
2. Volvos.
3. Volvo taxis.
4. Buses.

I think Buses come in number 5 now, but where from 1-4 do I put U-turning Coppers?

[Skyryder]

With the proviso that the cops are not going to apportian any blame to the crashed biker unless there is evidence to the contrary I will say very little on this other than if you going to do a u turn or indeed any other kind of manourvre it is up to the driver to perform the 'said' manourve safely.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Everything on the road has the potential to kill you. The day you morons learn this is the day you stop complaining about cops doing u turns.
Go get yourself and accident and get some hard learn.
The only thing you can guarantee on the road is you.



Bring back the red flags and anything faster than walking is 'speeding.'



This is not about guarantee's, if it was then the only guarantee not to get knocked of you bike is not to get on it.

Yes there are risk with biking but that risk becomes an acceptable risk with the proviso that there is an expectation that the ‘majority’ of other road users will employ some common sense. Many don't we all know that but to blame bikers in 'all' crash situations on the basis that you have stated seems to me that you have not been riding very long and have little experiance.

We all know there are situations where there is a point on the road that if a vehicle does the unexpected there is nowhere to go. Every car that has it's indicator on ready to pull out from the kerb is a case in point. There is a small window where in passing, if the car pulls out you have nowhere to go.

Should we stop in the middle of the road, pull up to the kerb and allow the car to pull out before we proceed?? No. We make the assumption that the driver will act with safety and we proceed on our way.

I've been riding off and on all my life and this bullshit that bikers can avoid all and everything thrown in their way is bullshit. So too is the assumption that bikers can avoid crashes and if not then they must have done something wrong.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Right, right, I guess I should stop complaining about drunk drivers, or boy-racers trying to force me off the road and nudging my rear wheel at the lights too.
OF COURSE everything on the road can kill us, and as riders we must take all responsibility to minimise those risks but there are some things just impossible to plan for.
I wouldn't complain if it was a force of nature causing the injury, like a meteor or a flood or a mechanical failure, but in this case it's simple negligence by a driver who didn't care enough to check before he u-turned. Simple and stupid.
That's worthy of complaining.


Ditto.

Skyryder

[MSTRS]

Bring back the red flags and anything faster than walking is 'speeding.'



This is not about guarantee's, if it was then the only guarantee not to get knocked of you bike is not to get on it.

Yes there are risk with biking but that risk becomes an acceptable risk with the proviso that there is an expectation that the ‘majority’ of other road users will employ some common sense. Many don't we all know that but to blame bikers in 'all' crash situations on the basis that you have stated seems to me that you have not been riding very long and have little experiance.

We all know there are situations where there is a point on the road that if a vehicle does the unexpected there is nowhere to go. Every car that has it's indicator on ready to pull out from the kerb is a case in point. There is a small window where in passing, if the car pulls out you have nowhere to go.

Should we stop in the middle of the road, pull up to the kerb and allow the car to pull out before we proceed?? No. We make the assumption that the driver will act with safety and we proceed on our way.

I've been riding off and on all my life and this bullshit that bikers can avoid all and everything thrown in their way is bullshit. So too is the assumption that bikers can avoid crashes and if not then they must have done something wrong.


Skyryder

Stop being sensible. I hate having to agree with you.

[NordieBoy]

Drivers with hoodies are my nemesis..mental age 3...with bags of testosterone.....:Pokey:

It isn't testosterone in those bags man.

[Deano]

Everything on the road has the potential to kill you. The day you morons learn this is the day you stop complaining about cops doing u turns.
Go get yourself and accident and get some hard learn.
The only thing you can guarantee on the road is you.

Say what.......moron ?

[Grahameeboy]

Rumour has it that police are human beings just like the rest of us. Shock horror :gob:
Does that mean KB members are too....yikes!!

[Grahameeboy]

They don't need a policy, it comes down to individual responsibility as a road user, just because its a police car doesn't excuse the driver from safe driving practices.

Don't take this as a comment in relation to this crash, I have no idea of what the circumstances are, its just a comment in relation to policy & driver responsibility.

Agree totally Spud.

My view is that the general standard of driving in NZ is pretty poor so a person with this standard joins the Police Force, gets trained etc, however, that does not mean that he / she will not display standards similar to the general standard...called bad habits.

I remember on a ride, a cop car was across the road to stop one of the guys ahead and was out of his car having a word with said rider....did not seem to appreciate that there were other road users and a brow in the road just ahead and when he saw the rest of us he quickly moved car......he had stopped the rider, yet got out of the car leaving it across the road.

I think that in both these u-turn cases, the cop may have focused on the pursuit and forgot the basic driving skills.

A u-turn requires a lot of checks before and during the manoeuvre so the driver can stop mid manoeuvre if somehing appears.

But as Toaster says cops are human.

[Sanx]

But as Toaster says traffic cops are barely sub-human, incapable of displaying the slightest vestige of common sense.

Absolutely... :2thumbsup

[MSTRS]

Quick - get Katman et al to tell us why, esp if the biker was in the right. Cos everyone should just accept the biker is always in the wrong eh??

[Grahameeboy]

Absolutely... :2thumbsup

NOT............:Playnice:

[James Deuce]

Quick - get Katman et al to tell us why, esp if the biker was in the right. Cos everyone should just accept the biker is always in the wrong eh??

The biker is never in the right. It doesn't matter who was right when you're dead.

[vifferman]

Until recently my most feared list was

1. Taxis.
2. Volvos.
3. Volvo taxis.
4. Buses.
You really should add "white vans" to that list.
Or maybe the crap-awful driving by owners of white vans is a purely local phenomenon.

[Pwalo]

The biker is never in the right. It doesn't matter who was right when you're dead.

That's what I always tell my boys. I think being in the right is only an option after the event, you know when it's too late.

[jrandom]

maybe the crap-awful driving by owners of white vans is a purely local phenomenon.

Nope. The White Van Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_man) is a global menace.

[Sanx]

the poor motorcyclist

This poor motorcyclist wouldn't have been riding a KTM SuperDuke poseR, would he?

[vifferman]

The White Van Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_man) is a global menace.
Oh.
I was going to say, "Well, that's reassuring!", but of course, that would be stupid.
"Don't be so pharkinstupid, Vifferdork!" :Pokey:

[Katman]

I've been riding off and on all my life and this bullshit that bikers can avoid all and everything thrown in their way is bullshit. So too is the assumption that bikers can avoid crashes and if not then they must have done something wrong.


Skyryder

Do you realise how stupid that statement sounds? (The bit in bold).

[Katman]

Quick - get Katman et al to tell us why, esp if the biker was in the right. Cos everyone should just accept the biker is always in the wrong eh??

It's always disappointing when someone lets their dislike of an individual distort their view of an issue that should be above petty squabbling.

[Usarka]

Do you realise how stupid that statement sounds? (The bit in bold).

a key skill in interpersonal communications is seeing through the exact words and picking up the intent or meaning behind them. Often harder when using text. How does this sound:

"So too is the assumption that bikers can avoid [all] crashes."

if you still think its a stupid comment, lets hire taupo track - you on a bike me in a car.....first one to do 10 laps wins....:shifty:

[Steam]

Do you realise how stupid that statement sounds? (The bit in bold).

Gotta agree with Usarka here. The intent of the statement was clear.

[jrandom]

Do you realise how stupid that statement sounds?

Yeah, that's what your mum tried to say last night.

It came out as 'mmph mmph mmph', though.

[Katman]

Judging by the attitude displayed by many on here I don't think the intent was clear at all.

[RC1]

Interesting...a fire engine nearly took out a motorcyclist at a Hamilton rounder bout not 4mins ago.
100% fire engines fault however the poor motorcyclist got abused :blink:


fark me you did tron to the ronga then posted within 4 mins, LEGEND

[MSTRS]

It's always disappointing when someone lets their dislike of an individual distort their view of an issue that should be above petty squabbling.

Huh? It's nothing to do with you as a person. It's the message you adhere to that causes issues. Unfortunately your message, whilst not without some merit, is just too black and white. The real world does not conform to your ideal. Bikers have crashes and accidents for numerous reasons, sometimes their own fault, sometimes contributed to, sometimes no fault and sometimes 'act of god'.
With better handling and observational skills, many offs could be avoided, but never all of them. And motorcycling does carry an inherently higher risk factor, no matter what you may say.

[Sanx]

Ultimately, every motorcycling accident is the rider's fault. He chose to get on a bike.

Katman: if you want to break it down to that level, then yes - you're right. However, back in the real world, the unforseen and unforseeable does happen. Stating that the biker could have anticipated each situation a little better is simply disingenuous. When passing a parked car on the left-hand side of the road, do you automatically assume it's going to pull a u-turn in front of you? If so, how do you ensure it's not. Pull over and wait for ten minutes behind each parked car? Get off and check to see if there's no driver? Unless you do the latter, you can't be sure that at the exact moment when you're a metre and a half from the front guard, said driver's not going to drop the clutch and wheelspin round in a circle, taking you out in the process.

I can think of plenty of other accidents scenarios where the rider could not have possibly anticipated or seen the accident coming. Front tyre blow-outs due to debris in the road, people running red lights, oncoming cars suddenly pulling out into your lane, fuckwit teenagers dropping bricks off motorway overpasses, etc.. Sure - you can avoid most of them by remaining stationary, preferably at least 5 metres from your bike in case it falls over, but it's not a realistic proposition.

By all means re-enforce the point that we, as bikers, have to ride defensively but rather like the government's laughable message that the moment you go over 100kph you become a potential child murderer, going too far and blaming every accident on the rider's lack of anticipation makes people simply ignore what is a valid message.

[Tank]

Yeah, that's what your mum tried to say last night.

It came out as 'mmph mmph mmph', though.

JRandom - you are one funny bastard!

[avgas]

I wouldn't complain if it was a force of nature causing the injury, like a meteor or a flood or a mechanical failure, but in this case it's simple negligence by a driver who didn't care enough to check before he u-turned. Simple and stupid.
Stupid is a force of nature.
The only difference now and 65,000,000 years ago is stupid is alot faster now.
Your either for it or against it. Some call it evolution, i just call it the learn.
While i am all for 'the individual' get his a into g and getting the learn from this fuckup, him being a cop is a stereotype like all sportbike riders are Rossi.
Its bullshit and you know it.
Sad fact of the matter is the cops do suck (thanks the bs in the world). Like i said earlier - you can only guarantee yourself. Assume the world wants to kill you and you wont die.
I would put money down that atleast 30% of the people on the road dont look. Motorcyclist included.
Now i was playing poker and i had a 30% chance of loosing all my money.....i may still place a bet on that hand. But you only got 1 life.
the learn or die. Lets face it - how many stabbings have happened lately? bike crashes? shootings?
The world is a fucked up scary place, assume its out to get you.

[mstriumph]

........... Mind you the way they are going they are eliminating the motorcyclists one by one :(

perhaps that's the plan ... :confused:

[madbikeboy]

Source - NZHERALD.co.nz

Motorcyclist serious after police u-turn accident
5:00AM Tuesday December 11, 2007
By Andrew Koubaridis


The injured motorcyclist is attended to at the scene of the accident.
A motorcyclist was seriously hurt yesterday when he crashed into a police car doing a u-turn to pursue a speeding vehicle.

It is the second accident involving bike riders crashing into u-turning squad cars in just over a week.

Yesterday's crash happened about 9.40am on SH2 near Maramarua when the officer went to answer a call about a speeding Mercedes.

A witness said the collision sent the motorbike flying into the air before it crashed on to the road.

The motorcyclist was left conscious but had serious leg injuries.

"It looked as though his foot was hanging off his ankle.

"He was talking, though, and it looked like he was trying to get a number off his cellphone."

The man was very pale and was cared for by a doctor who stopped at the crash scene.

The witness said the policeman was feeling "pretty bad" and was heard asking the motorcyclist what direction he was headed in.

"The [speeding] Mercedes overtook me and the police car turned its lights on and then did a u-turn. I asked him [the police officer] if he was chasing the Mercedes and he said that he was and had clocked it at 142 km/h."


On December 2, two riders were seriously hurt in the Upper Buller Gorge on the West Coast when they crashed into a police car doing a u-turn to pursue a speeding motorcyclist.

[Mikkel]

Hmmm, looks like it's time for the boys in blue to get some proper guidelines regarding U-turns sorted out! :nono:

Hope the rider will be ok!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

its just the latest wepon against motorbikes U TURN US OFF THE ROAD it takes a lot of :Police:training to get the timing right

[dmouse]

uturns and reversing out of a driveway onto a state highway should be a NO NO i cant believe another trained officer did the same thing within a week, these guys are supposed to set an example and follow the rules to the letter, he should be crucified is a ticket worth so much to them ? a life or a ticket i hope that he has a consience and has to suffer flashbacks evertime he looks into a mirror there is just no excuse just poor bad driving and adrenalin with the thought of a high speed chase 142k`s its going to be an expensive ticket and so it should be.

[SPman]

Ultimately, every motorcycling accident is the rider's fault. He chose to get on a bike.

So, therefore - every car accident is the drivers fault - he chose to get in the car.

Where does that leave car/bike accidents?

.....parents fault for having kids who got onto/into vehicles and having accidents........

.......governments fault for letting people breed?..........

personally, I blame the Queen!

[madandy]

I imagine the Police will review thier U-Turn policy when one of thier own is cleaned up by a truck they turn in front of!

[Skyryder]

Do you realise how stupid that statement sounds? (The bit in bold).

No I don't. You tell me.

Skyryder

[98tls]

With better handling and observational skills, many offs could be avoided, but never all of them. And motorcycling does carry an inherently higher risk factor, no matter what you may say. Says it all really.

[rocketman1]

Its a fact of life that doing a U turn anywhere in a car , van, motorcycle, is a dodgy business, there are too many accidents caused by people doing U turns, the Police obviously do many U turns in a days work, so they should be more careful and aware of the potential dangers, it should be part of their training.
My personal opinion is that you should not rely on your mirrors to do a U turn safely, you must pull over stop, start to turn a little, indicate, so your car is just turned enough to take a look back through your drivers window & STOP and physically look behind yourself, and then in once to the front, then look back again and turn.
On main highways I prefer to stop just past a driveway or the like, well off the road and reverse into the driveway, so I have a clear veiw each way.
I have almost been taken out by a police car turning whilst driving my car, the officer who was doing the U turn, near Tekauwhata just stopped in time or else my "big" car and me would have gone straight through his drivers door at about 100kph. If the officer is reading this he will know the incident.
I have also had an old lady in Morris Minor, do a u turn in front of me my trail motorbike once, I was both wheels locked up going sideways, but managed to hold it upright, and just miss her, it was a frightening experience.
Its a problem that is not going to go away, as Biker I was advised that you should watch the front wheels of the car that is parked beside the highway, its the first sign its going to turn in front of you.
Hope not,
A bloody loud motorbike may also help you be made aware of.

My thoughts are with this poor guy on his BMW, I hope he recovers well and this doesn't stop him riding.

The police obviously need to do some serious training of their officers in this respect. ie DONT trust your mirrors

[Skyryder]

a key skill in interpersonal communications is seeing through the exact words and picking up the intent or meaning behind them. Often harder when using text. How does this sound:

"So too is the assumption that bikers can avoid [all] crashes."

if you still think its a stupid comment, lets hire taupo track - you on a bike me in a car.....first one to do 10 laps wins....:shifty:


Ursaka has read my statement correctly. Bikers can not avoid 'all' crashes. Whilst non of us are perfect riders, most experiance riders know how to read traffic.........and the key word is traffic. We see a car doing something out of the ordinary perhaps they look confused and slow down unneccesarily who knows but if we are reading traffic we see something that may pose a risk we take the appropiate action slow down, change line, look for an escape rout etc. It is the unexpected where there is no warning whatsoever that catches us out and then it can be only luck that can save us.

If there is a way to predetermine driver stupidity, I along with the biker community would like to know how.

Skyryder

[shafty]

All BS aside, does anyone know who the Rider is, what he was riding and most importantly, HOW HE"S DOIN?

[90s]

Just to clarify he was doing 142 not 110.

I was making a generalised point about cost-benefit.

In another incident the speed of the motorbike being chased was only 110kph (alleged), but again it does not matter. To cause grave risk by throwing the road rules and safe driving out of the window needs some mother of a reason to justify it.

And from my experience of the police driving system (slim, admittedly) there is never an excuse to throw them out.

[hedgier1]

And the cops wonder why we run away from them..........
We are scared that they will do a u turn in front of us........
Farqn PIGS........

[cowboyz]

devils advocate in all, but I wonder if the modern sportsbike coupled with the brave/stupid doing runners has got it in the police head that they have to get in front of a speeder to have a chance therefore U turn in front to slow them down???

[ManDownUnder]

Call this morning from a friend (a very reliable/trusted source).

He saw the whole thing happen and comented it's pretty hard to lay the blame but if forced to do so he'd actually side with the cop.

I don't know enough of the details to be involved in a discussion and I don't see how the cop could be taken off the hook personally, but I hugely respect the opinion given to me and told me it was an easily avoided situation had the motocyclist chosen to do so...

[Usarka]

..told me it was an easily avoided situation had the motocyclist chosen to do so...
Does this person ride bikes?

The reason i ask is some car drivers expect bikes to be able to handle like a car or even better because they take up less room..... not always the case breaking hard around a corner.

[ManDownUnder]

Does this person ride bikes?

The reason i ask is some car drivers expect bikes to be able to handle like a car or even better because they take up less room..... not always the case breaking hard around a corner.

Doesn't ride them but has 20+ years experience as a pillion (one of the better pillions I've had too). He has a very good idea of what bikes are capable of... :whistle:

[Tank]

And the cops wonder why we run away from them..........
We are scared that they will do a u turn in front of us........
Farqn PIGS........

Now there is a sensible and well reasoned reply that adds to the thread.:argh:

[Toaster]

I expect there should be consequences for poor performance, in any profession.

Perhaps it's a training issue ?

Damn right there is. If a cop is found in the wrong then they are charged just like anyone else.

[Skyryder]

They want one ticket per hour of road policing

From the Concise Oxford Dictionary.

Quota The share that an individual, person or company is bound to contribute to or entilted to receive from the total.

Been along time coming this but 'one' ticket and hour is a quota.


Thanks Spud for the confirmation.


Skyryder

[spudchucka]

Nobody ever denied it, in fact I've explained numerous times in this very mental asylum just how the "quota" works.

[Skyryder]

They don't need a policy in relation to basic safe driving, it comes down to individual responsibility.


That's what I thought but the Judge who let off Clarke's speedsters had another idea.

Skyryder

[spudchucka]

And what idea was that?

[avgas]

That they were doing their job, and the reponsibility was from those giving the orders?

[MD]

Has anyone heard how the rider is doing. The report about his "foot dangling off the end of his leg"sounded like a quick fix with a bandaid wasn't going to cut the mustard.

The PCA need to resolve these two U-turn vs bikes enquiries before they find themselves with a backlog.

[Skyryder]

That they were doing their job, and the reponsibility was from those giving the orders?


Try telling the Judge that next time you get a speeding ticket. There is a fundamental responsibility when you get issued with a driving licence, that is you take responsability for your own actions behind the wheel. I know of no law that exempts the police from this.

Skyryder.

[Skyryder]

And what idea was that?

That the police are not responsible for their actions when behind the wheel of a vehicle.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

From the Concise Oxford Dictionary.

Quota The share that an individual, person or company is bound to contribute to or entilted to receive from the total.

Been along time coming this but 'one' ticket and hour is a quota.


Thanks Spud for the confirmation.


Skyryder

Sounds bad for me- I don't 'do' quotas, the only time I'm 'bound' is when I need prunes.

I write out tickets as I feel needed -not 'at one an hour' or '0.7 per hour' or anything like that.

So it seems quotas are only for some??

[TKDSKIP]

Has anyone heard how the rider is doing. The report about his "foot dangling off the end of his leg"sounded like a quick fix with a bandaid wasn't going to cut the mustard.

Yeah, just heard today that he has lost his foot. The rider will be transfered to Tga hospital soon. Merry fuckn Xmas

[Skyryder]

Has anyone heard how the rider is doing. The report about his "foot dangling off the end of his leg"sounded like a quick fix with a bandaid wasn't going to cut the mustard.

Yeah, just heard today that he has lost his foot. The rider will be transfered to Tga hospital soon. Merry fuckn Xmas

That's not good news. Just hope there's no more like that.


Skyryder

[spudchucka]

That the police are not responsible for their actions when behind the wheel of a vehicle.

Skyryder

So the ones that have been charged and convicted need to appeal then??

[Skyryder]

So the ones that have been charged and convicted need to appeal then??

They did and their convictions were struck out. I'm picking that's what will happen to our U turn cop. There will be a charade of trial he'll get convicted and appeal the conviction and the judge will let him off. That's exactly what happened with the speeding convoy drivers. When all the fuss has died down.

Wanna take a little bet history won't repeat itself.


Skyryder

[spudchucka]

No, I meant ALL the other police drivers that have EVER been charged and convicted, since there's now a precedent set and all. Should be a prime opportunity to get some convictions quashed. In fact I can't understand why there isn't a huge line of ambulance chasers lining up to rip off the legal aid system on that one cause alone.

[ElCoyote]

Sounds bad for me- I don't 'do' quotas, the only time I'm 'bound' is when I need prunes.

I write out tickets as I feel needed -not 'at one an hour' or '0.7 per hour' or anything like that.

So it seems quotas are only for some??

It seems that you are blessed with commonsense however this is not the case with the majority and it is these people who are referred to on KB. Keep on doing what you are doing it is a rare thing these days. :niceone:

[MSTRS]

It seems that you are blessed with commonsense however this is not the case with the majority and it is these people who are referred to on KB. Keep on doing what you are doing it is a rare thing these days. :niceone:

He never said he didn't write out 4/hour all day...or 10 in the first hour and then off to the doughnut shop.:whistle:

[James Deuce]

He never said he didn't write out 4/hour all day...or 10 in the first hour and then off to the doughnut shop.:whistle:

Jack Daniels shop. He's not the average cop.

[MSTRS]

He's not the average cop.

Very true...he seems almost human (on here):devil2:

[ynot slow]

Re driver training,had a friend who knew a guy in police college,and during basic driving,had a ball with the cars,superb control in wet etc,off hand he was one of the top for the year at driving,Mind you he was a shit hot speedway driver in stockcars,saloons and most dirt driving,on the firearms course wasn't to hot,turned out he just missed the cut and didn't graduate,left abit pissed as he wanted to be on the highway side patroling,and new in a pursuit his skills were better than most in the college and elsewhere.Just wasn't all that keen on law and protocols etc,hated the PC part with tribal crap as he put it,and always said it's NZ not South Africa.