Ducati ST4 Test

[Winston001]

Before I begin, a bit of background. I'm a neophyte when it comes to big modern bikes. I've been on bikes on and off for years but only started riding again recently when my children began their teenage years.

I've had the BMW R80RT for 14 years but never travelled a lot on it. It is a comfortable gentleman's bike, solid and dependable, yet lacking the acceleration needed for hills and headwinds.

I had a strop on a Bol D'Or 750 for 100km last year and was very impressed. At the Burt Munro Rally I took my mate's Bandit 1200 for a run and scared the excrement out of myself. Only got to full throttle for a couple of seconds before deciding that mortality had it's benefits but I did find a delightful playground above 6000 revs - albeit in the lower gears.

But what I secretly yearned for was a Ducati........

[Winston001]

Which brings us to today. Rogers Yamaha in Invercargill - a good reliable shop - had 3 Japanese imported Ducati ST4s which I'd decided were the model for me. Actually they only had 2 because they'd sold the ST4S by the time I arrived.

I took a red ST4 out for over an hour and gently fanged it on some back roads. I'd forgotten that tractors and stock lorries like back roads too but all the more fun.

This turned into a wonderful experience.The wind noise was stronger than expected but then again so was the indicated speed. Popping earplugs in everything settled into a comfortable thrum. In fact the throaty roar of the carbon-fibre exhausts was more muted than I expected. Vibration was greater than the RT but nothing to really notice.

This bike had a touring fairing which worked well, with the airstream coming in a chest level. I had been curious about the riding position because the touring bars are short and well forward compared with most touring bikes. Happily they worked well and at 100k there was no pressure on my wrists. Or maybe that was 140k, I can't quite remember. Anyway the riding position is sports style but works.

After about 20 minutes the bike became comfortable. Gear changes were easy and the throttle responsive. This is a light bike compared to the Bandit and felt a lot more manageable. Handling was what you'd expect - point it somewhere and that is where it went. Look ahead around a bend and that is where it steered without wobbles or shifting on the uneven road.

The road I'd chosen was not a great surface which in hindsight was a good choice because it gave the stability of the ST a good test. The bike was like a rock.

[vifferman]

I think you should buy it, Mister.

[Winston001]

After a test run down the Tiwai road (just to clear the injectors.......) I moved to SH1. The turning circle of this bike is surprisingly wide or the RT is tighter than I realised but it took most of the road width to turn around.

Out on the main road the ride was noticeably smoother and less bumpy. I can now say that I proceeded around the longest curve in the Southern Hemisphere in an astonishingly short time. This bike in my inexperienced estimation is very fast. It is tall geared as well and often it wasn't obvious that 5th and 6th gears weren't being used. Gear changes didn't make a noticeable difference in the exhaust note and if I bought it, I'd have to learn to use the rev counter as an indication of the gear.

Torque was what you'd expect of an Italian Vtwin - plenty of it but sluggish in high gear below 4000 revs. However the gear changing is so effortless that chopping down one or even two gears felt the most natural response. By contrast on the RT I'd normally just roll-on but having said that, the groundspeed is usually more sedate. I felt that at road-legal speeds the ST rolls on very well from the tests I did. Indeed it is responsive and powerful which is exactly what I'm looking for.

[Winston001]

Conclusion - I couldn't stop grinning when I got off it. A light narrow bike, with a lovely slightly muted roar, it fulfills most of the things I look for in a machine. And I'll happily admitt to being seduced by the Ducati name and history.

Negatives - having ridden a fully faired bike for so long it takes some getting used to the wind noise and buffeting behind a small fairing. The riding position worked for the hour I was out on the road but a long-distance trip might be a different experience. It didn't look easy to put on replacement bars set back a little and higher.

So I'll chew it over. $12,000 doesn't grow on trees, especially for a toy.................but hey - we all need toys too!

[jrandom]

Torque was what you'd expect of an Italian Vtwin - plenty of it but sluggish in high gear below 4000 revs.

That's exactly what I found with the 1000DS Multistrada.

Same engine, innit?

[vifferman]

Torque was what you'd expect of an Italian Vtwin - plenty of it but sluggish in high gear below 4000 revs.
How many modern bikes would have significant torque below 4k? HDs, and what else? It's a characteristic of modern short-stroke engines that they don't have much, innit? :spudwhat:

[Duc]

It is easy to do a sprocket change to make it a little less "long legged". 14T on the front helps a lot.

[jrandom]

How many modern bikes would have significant torque below 4k?

Hmm, that particular Ducati engine really is very unhappy below 4000rpm. Particularly for a 1000cc V-twin.

[Hitcher]

How many modern bikes would have significant torque below 4k? HDs, and what else?

An incomplete list follows for the purposes of illustrating a point:

Bandit 1200 and 1250
FJR1300
ST1300
ZRX1200R
CB1300
CB900
ZZR1200
Etc

[vifferman]

It is easy to do a sprocket change to make it a little less "long legged". 14T on the front helps a lot.
That's a very small sprocket!

The VTR1000 was similarly 'long-legged', turning over at a mere 2600rpm at 100km/h.

[jim.cox]

That's exactly what I found with the 1000DS Multistrada.

Same engine, innit?

No

The Mouldy Strudel uses the two valve engine from the 900ss

The ST4's comes from the 916 range

[ducatijim]

No

The Mouldy Strudel uses the two valve engine from the 900ss

The ST4's comes from the 916 range

Close, very close;

1000Ds is an advancement on the 900ss,ie, 99?cc, 2 valve, SOHC motor.

ST4 is indeed a 916cc, but 4 valve DOHC, quite a differant beast altogeather!!

[jrandom]

ST4 is indeed a 916cc, but 4 valve DOHC, quite q differant beast altogeather!!

Ah.

Yes, Winston001's comments didn't entirely gel with my experience of the 1000DS engine. They make more sense knowing that the ST4 is powered by a more refined lump.

[ambler]

An incomplete list follows for the purposes of illustrating a point:

Bandit 1200 and 1250
FJR1300
ST1300
ZRX1200R
CB1300
CB900
ZZR1200
Etc

True. My FJ1200 is quite happy 50kmh around town at 1800rpm in top gear. I have found that the ST4 is reluctant to do anything at all below 3000.

[Dcati]

I have an ST4s with the 996 motor. A great bike and handles really well as others have pointed out. I changed the front sprocket (to 14 I think)to gear the bike down a bit and it made a major difference. At least now I can get it into top gear at about 110 km.

What I enjoy most is the strong torque and not needing to constantly shift gears.

[steveb64]

I think changing the gearing (shorter) is pretty much a standard thing for most Ducati owners. I changed mine by +2 teeth on the rear sprocket, which brought my 1st gear idle down from 50 kph to 30 - but top speed stayed about the same (just revs a bit harder), and gear changes are better, as the gap between gears closed up a bit, and revs and change speed now match better.

IMO that Ducati gear the hell out of their bikes so that they can pass the Euro noise testing (ride past at 100kph in top), without having to go to too many other extremes...

[McJim]

Funny thing about Ducatis eh? My ickle little 6 hundy doesn't get out of 4th until about 125kph.

Even 2nd is lugging it around town.

[Richard Mc F]

Why would you lug it down below 4000........the noise the noise let there be noise.

Sure fire way to stuff chains and cush drives:bash:

[McJim]

Why would you lug it down below 4000........the noise the noise let there be noise.

Sure fire way to stuff chains and cush drives:bash:

Well that's the point innit? I don't lug it HOWEVER if I wanted to keep it in 2nd AND legal in a 50 zone I would be lugging it.

Therefore I do 56 or keep it in 1st. Most of the time I just try to get out of town and stretch my legs. this is why Invercargill is so great. 20 seconds and I'm in the countryside!

[Mike748]

Ducati's don't like traffic. I can't get below 30kph without slipping the clutch.

Taking it back to the top, I had 2 other bikes lined up before I thought I would scratch the itch and take a Ducati for a test run.
Then the only choice to make was between red or yellow!

[2wheeldrifter]

Nothing wrong with yellow aye Mike748!:niceone:

Most are duc owners who have replyed, yes the ST2 944 2 valve,ST4 916 4 valve and the ST4s 996 4 valve.
Both run a 14 tooth front and is now more usable around town. Both bikes 4000-5000rpms is the sweet spot, pull hard and smooth... like a good woman!

Stock mufflers sound yuk! far far to quite and rob you of a true Duc thump, I got Sean of trade me who rebaffled my muffler with good results, he has done both sets and sound bloody great with out paying up to $1200-1500 plus I would need the ECU rechiped, if like the S you need a whole ECU as you cannot replace just the chip.

Like Richard Mc F said.... let there be noise, and damn thumping noise at that!!:niceone:

You love it!

[Duc]

Monster 916 S4 : I did the 14T front sprocket thing first and it was ok and did the trick . Its the cheaper option.

I then had the "Gearing Guru"do me a proper analysis (extensive report from a computer - USD$29) and eventually chose to go back to 15t front and two MORE on the rear. That really sorted it out. I was after a bit of round town manageability and a 100-120kph cruising speed in top gear (6th) with at least a little roll on capability. Perfect now.


Note: Rear sprocket change involves a new chain.

[vifferman]

...eventually chose to go back to 15t front and two less on the rear.
Two more on the rear?

[Duc]

Corrected now. Thanx.

[Mike748]

You guys have got me thinking about getn the spockets changed now, I've read a lot about it but wasn't sure if it was a real world improvement or just another internet theory that's talked up but rarely ever done.
Anyone know of it done on a 748R?

[vifferman]

You guys have got me thinking about getn the spockets changed now, I've read a lot about it but wasn't sure if it was a real world improvement or just another internet theory that's talked up but rarely ever done.
Anyone know of it done on a 748R?
It's no big deal, Mike.
It's all to do with what suits your riding style. I've lowered the gearing on my last four bikes (one tooth down on the front sprocket, in each case), because most of my riding is commuting. Unless you're doing oooodles of highway/motorway droning, or your bike is already low geared, lowering the gearing a tad is one of the cheapest mods you can do to your bike.

It was a must on the VTR1000 - 2600rpm at 100km/h was just ridiculous. Plus it made wheelies easier.

Allegedly.

[Duc]

Its real world. Th options the Gearing Guru gave me were precise and detailed. I chose an option to suit NZ laws and my riding style. Also was based on my body size and weight etc.

Ive got a spare 14T front sprocket if you want to try it.

Not sure what your front currently is though (on the 748)

Im in Auckland.

[Winston001]

Thanks for the input guys, putting on a smaller front sprocket sounds like a very good idea.

My main hesitation is that I figured I could justify up to $10,000 for a thrill machine and scratch my Ducati itch. $12,000 is just a bit too far although I don't think the price is unfair.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=129532467

[jim.cox]

Thanks for the input guys, putting on a smaller front sprocket sounds like a very good idea.

My main hesitation is that I figured I could justify up to $10,000 for a thrill machine and scratch my Ducati itch. $12,000 is just a bit too far although I don't think the price is unfair.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=129532467

A friend of mine traded his Blackbird for an ST4S with ABS

He was a bit hesitant at the time, given the difference is power between them.

But he sure doesn't regret it now :)

[SPman]

Ah - the ST4S has Ohlins suspenders. Twould like one myself - a yellow one preferably. Without ABS.

[Richard Mc F]

Do it.........the more time you spend on one the more you will realise you have made the right decision.

I think it was in the aussie magazines a million years ago they used to advertise Ducatis thusly " if you find yourself in the wrong gear on the wrong line...you will be glad you are riding a Ducati":clap::clap:

I know mine has better preservation instinct than the rider:sweatdrop

Dammit I am going riding NOW:scooter:

[Mike748]

At the risk of allowing Winston001 to have a break from having his arm twisted into purchasing the ST4.

1st) Thanks Duc for the offer, tis appreciated and I'll keep it in mind.

2nd) The 748 will need major servicing soon and whilst I don't mind paying for a skilled mechanic, I do want to know where they are. Mates with similar bikes go to approved bikeshops etc however I do what I can myself but this beast is a little daunting. Therefore some suggestions for places in Auckland would be appreciated, Thanks.

[Headbanger]

Thanks for the input guys, putting on a smaller front sprocket sounds like a very good idea.

My main hesitation is that I figured I could justify up to $10,000 for a thrill machine and scratch my Ducati itch. $12,000 is just a bit too far although I don't think the price is unfair.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=129532467

Simple, offer him $10500.

You have lost nothing if he won't haggle, and once you make an offer its almost impossible not to buy, so you will head home on a Ducati.

[far queue]

... I got Sean of trade me who rebaffled my muffler with good results, he has done both sets and sound bloody great with out paying up to $1200-1500 plus I would need the ECU rechiped, if like the S you need a whole ECU as you cannot replace just the chip.

Like Richard Mc F said.... let there be noise, and damn thumping noise at that!!:niceone:

You love it!Sean did mine too. He lives just round the corner from me. Good guy, and does a great job. I'm very happy with the resulting music :D


You guys have got me thinking about getn the spockets changed now, I've read a lot about it but wasn't sure if it was a real world improvement or just another internet theory that's talked up but rarely ever done.I've also gone from 15 to 14, and it is indeed a great improvement.


My main hesitation is that I figured I could justify up to $10,000 for a thrill machine and scratch my Ducati itch. $12,000 is just a bit too far although I don't think the price is unfair.I was looking at getting a brand new SV1000 or VTR1000 at around the 11-12k mark, but bought the ST4s for 15k instead. That was 10 months ago and I'm still rapt at the decision I made. You sound like you've decided the ST4 is the bike for you, so make the stretch and go get it. Better to spend a bit more and get something you really want than to settle for less and regret it later.

[jim.cox]

The 748 will need major servicing soon and whilst I don't mind paying for a skilled mechanic, I do want to know where they are. Mates with similar bikes go to approved bikeshops etc however I do what I can myself but this beast is a little daunting. Therefore some suggestions for places in Auckland would be appreciated, Thanks.

I think its worth putting in the effort to become a skilled mechanic experienced on your bike for yourself.

But you do need to learn. I find the best way to do this is from someone who already has those skills. But there are also some really good other resources around, the InterNerd, books , videos etc

How many K's has your bike done? ie what is scheduled at this major service of your's? How much of it could you do for yourself?

Replacing the belts and checking the valve clearances is entirely possible for a home mechanic. Although adjusting the valve clearances is much trickier and probably best done under expert supervision

[Duc]

John at AMPS works on my S4. I am very happy with their work.

[Winston001]

You sound like you've decided the ST4 is the bike for you, so make the stretch and go get it. Better to spend a bit more and get something you really want than to settle for less and regret it later.

Agreed. All too often we compromise between the best and almost good enough.

Really I want one which has panniers and I'd add a topbox, 14 tooth front sprocket and be set up. That probably means buying in Auckland because the deals there are more competitive but with a cheap air fare it would be worth it.

However I must say I like buying locally and this bike shop (Rogers) has a good reputation.

There is just one more little glitch - I'm buying a house next month which rather strains financing. :mobile:

[jim.cox]

There is just one more little glitch - I'm buying a house next month which rather strains financing.

This might be what makes it possible

Add just enough onto the mortgage to get the bike you want

Its the cheapest finance you'll get

[ST4s]

My handle on this forum may indicate that I'm a smidgeon biased on this one, but I know it'll be hard to regret the Duc while you're riding it.

I would recommend the St4s as the pick of the bunch - the extra stomp of the 996 motor's nice, while better suspension & lighter wheels build on the already good handling.

My own one has the ABS brakes - these are the best ABS system, allowing very hard braking including stoppies before the ABS cuts in - as tested by more than one publication. I've not yet triggered it - at either end.

Be aware though, that these machines, like many motorcycles, have some known issues - and rathermore than your average Honda.

By 2000 model year many have been sorted, and there is very good info from an active Yahoo users group / mailing list:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/

- it covers all STs and the Multistrada. Another worthwhile visit is to the ST FAQ:

http://www.perryr.com/DucatiSTFAQ.html

[Winston001]

Much appreciated ST4s. I'd picked up that Ducati lifted their game in 2000 and for that reason haven't been considering any ST older than that. There is plenty of choice at the moment on Trademe.

This seems like a good forum too http://www.ducati.ms/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=79

[miSTa]

The ST4 is a fantastic bike...then again I maybe biased.

I've done close to 7,000km over the last six months mine and the bike is getting better and better. I wish I had bought one years ago!

You do however have to be "positive" with it - you can't be lazy or coast along with it, it needs to be "ridden" to get the most out of it. Keep her spinning above 5,000rpm and you'll have an absolute ball! The 916 engine is fabulous. :love:

I haven't ridden the ST4s and despite the fact that it has more power, torque, and the improved suspension, the truth is I don't really care - the ST4 does all I want and is a blast to ride.

Oh yes go for 01+ and www.ducati.ms is a great site for Duc and ST info.

[far queue]

I haven't ridden the ST4sDespite me offering you a go - methinks you may be afraid you'll like it more than yours :dodge:

[cowboyz]

Thanks for the input guys, putting on a smaller front sprocket sounds like a very good idea.

My main hesitation is that I figured I could justify up to $10,000 for a thrill machine and scratch my Ducati itch. $12,000 is just a bit too far although I don't think the price is unfair.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=129532467

Mate test rode one today and I had to give it a crack up the street and back. (rude not to). Went alright but not me. I can see why people would like them though. $12k is ok though, this particular one is $14k with panniers and topbox.

[Winston001]

$12k is ok though, this particular one is $14k with panniers and topbox.

Yeah I'm not arguing too much about the price. However Badcat got one recently with panniers for $10,000 and low ks. Here is another which looks very nice and a good deal - I like the blue but.........somehow a Ducati should be red or yellow. :first:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131065373[LIST=1]

[McJim]

Hey Winston - is that your BMW with the For Sale sign in Gala Street?

Because I heard you had test rode a Ducati from Rogers I assumed they must have done some service work to it so popped in and made an enquiry.

Thanks to you I can get someone else to dismantle my engine and replace the worn valve shims/belts etc.

Rogers Yamaha service Ducatis!

Woot!

[Winston001]

Not my BMW, but if you ride down the first block of Herbert St you'll see mine parked on the street - not now of course, it is lovingly tucked up in the garage. White ex Police. Anyone got a siren......?

I won't trade the R80 because it needs a tidy up and wouldn't be worth much to a dealer.

Yes Rogers know me and have serviced all my bikes. I find them very good to deal with.

[Beeza]

Get a big Moto Guzzi if you want V-twin + Italian + lots of torque at low revs. And you'll have a bike that will shrug off 100 000kms with no fiddling; only routine servicing.

[far queue]

My main hesitation is that I figured I could justify up to $10,000 for a thrill machine and scratch my Ducati itch. $12,000 is just a bit too far although I don't think the price is unfair.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=129532467

You still looking for an ST4s at a reasonable price? Here's (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Tourers/auction-135669769.htm) one local to you in your price range.

[SB Eng]

You can get bar risers for these, just took an ST4 916 for a ride and bought it, 4 day's later and still have the funny grin and now a set of riser's, 10mins to fit!

[zeocen]

Hey guys, sorry for the thread bump.. been doing a lot of 'next bike' research and ST4 has pretty much come out on top.

That was, until the one I had my eye one was sold!! So I was offered two other options (from Kerry, same place Winston001 bought his from). An ST2 for around $9000 with panniers and an ST4s for $11,000 with panniers. I've had a good solid research on both bikes and it seems the ST2 are sort of an 'entry level' sport tour, of which I have no problem with. I'm just wondering if the extra 'bling' on the ST4s is well worth it? The Ohlins shocks, ABS and 996 motor really appeal to me.. but if I was to weigh in, touring would weigh slightly more than sports.

I have budgetted for the ST4 and I am going to check it out tomorrow, hopefully it all goes smooth.. I was just seeing what the Ducatians (....?) have to say about the ST2. Is it okay for serious touring or should I stick with the ST4? My previous sports tours were the 1992 ZZR1100 and 1990 ZZR600, I loved the ZZR1100's pick up, especially on long straights.. but prefered the 600 for corners (strangly enough my old mans 2002 ZZR1200 beats both in those areas).

And also,

Is it wrong for a 26 year old to be more into touring than into sports? I feel ....24 years too early :P

Thanks guys!

[miSTa]

I have budgetted for the ST4 and I am going to check it out tomorrow, hopefully it all goes smooth.. I was just seeing what the Ducatians (....?) have to say about the ST2. Is it okay for serious touring or should I stick with the ST4? My previous sports tours were the 1992 ZZR1100 and 1990 ZZR600, I loved the ZZR1100's pick up, especially on long straights.. but prefered the 600 for corners (strangly enough my old mans 2002 ZZR1200 beats both in those areas).
Nothing wrong with the ST2. Up to about 7000rpm both the ST2 and ST4 have basically the same power and torque. In touring mode you wont notice the top end difference. When I was looking at STs I would've been happy with either, now that I have a ST4 I'm pleased I chose that over a ST2.

Can't tell anything about the ST4s - never ridden one, but apparently they have more bottom end get and and go, and smoother suspension. Don't know if they are worth the extra dollars though.

Great bikes the ZZR1100s, I had D6 a couple of years ago. Fantastic pick up, comfortable but ultimately heavy in the tight and twisty stuff. Much prefer the ST.


Is it wrong for a 26 year old to be more into touring than into sports? I feel ....24 years too early :P
Seeing how you're talking Ducati STs then no, if you were talking BMWs then absolutely.