Turning Left

[Tank]

Just interested in peoples thoughts on how to do this.

Not far from my home there is an intersection that I often see bikers get into trouble with - and was interested on how people would approach it.

Its a T intersection.

When approaching the T there is a long line of turning Left cars and a turn right lane that is generally empty. There is no room to go up the left of the cars as they are normally pulled all the way over to keep the right lane free.

The road that the T meets is busy (East coast road) and it also has a turn right area (often used).

What I see are bikers going up the 'turn right lane' then when at the front of the queue taking the same gap as the car to turn left, but taking a wide corner (effectively overtaking them in the corner).

This morning the car didnt see the biker (or assumed that he was turning right - after all he was in the turn right lane), and the cage tok the corner a little wide. This pushed the bike wider to avoid him almost putting him 'head on' with a car on East Coast road. I have seen this happen a few times.

How would others take this?

[Mikkel]

Well, an obvious way to avoid trouble would be not to be in a hurry.

Barring that, squeeze in behind or in front of the frontmost car so that you wouldn't be overtaking them around the corner. This could of course piss off some of the car drivers, but the choice is yours...

If I was in a reasonable hurry I'd probably squeeze in behind the frontmost car - then again it depends. Sometimes you get people who are really reluctant to pull out and squeeze into the traffic, missing golden opportunities to get going, etc.

[RC1]

i myself would use right lane then get in line a couple of cars back so i had my own space and avoid trouble hopefully,

[Ragingrob]

I'd head up the right lane then pull into the left behind the first car in front of the second, thus pulling out after the first car has, without the second car pulling out too...

[Ragingrob]

:bash: Haha pretty much the same reply thrice!

[Grub]

Fair enuff, bike at fault big time. I have to say that now I am a commuter into Welly and back up SH1 on a daily basis, that bikers do themselves no favours and win no friends with the way they ride and act.
- weaving in and out of cars
- splitting when the traffic is already doing 90kmh
- using the between-lane space as if it was a mtorcycle lane
- intimidating cars with their proximity

On Monday a biker went down southbound in Ngauranga Gorge, on Tuesday a biker went down northbound in Ngauranga Gorge. I'm less inclined to blame the car drivers than I am the bikes based on the typical behaviour of most commuters.

Bikers need to remember they don't have a right to be anywhere other than in the correct place in the correct lane. Anything else it at your risk.

[Mikkel]

:bash: Haha pretty much the same reply thrice!

I was faster and wrote more... I win :p

Good to see that people are agreed though! :niceone:

[RC1]

:bash: Haha pretty much the same reply thrice!

does this mean we all get bling for good common sense :whistle:

[vifferman]

Is there a footpath on the left? :shifty:

[Ragingrob]

Is there a footpath on the left? :shifty:

Yeah but the parking warden will give ya a ticket! :eek:

[car]

Is there a footpath on the left? :shifty:

Remember to keep your speed up, though -- if you look like you're parking you might get a ticket!

[Gah! Beaten to the punchline.]

[dipshit]

I have seen this happen a few times.

How would others take this?

Just like I do when driving my car.

I would stay in my correct lane for the direction I want to go for as long as it takes, waiting my turn in the queue of traffic just like everybody else, with my indicator going so everyone can see what direction I intend to go.

[Storm]

I've been beaten to the punch, so will agree with the above and leave you with a favourite quote

"I'm just not an ambi-turner"- Derek Zoolander

[Drum]

Yep, I'd take the right turn lane and then rudely and dangerously turn left pissing off the car drivers - and here's the important part - I wouldn't whinge if I got hit because I knew I was being naughty.

I also support the following, at my own risk:

- weaving in and out of cars
- splitting when the traffic is already doing 90kmh
- using the between-lane space as if it was a mtorcycle lane
- intimidating cars with their proximity

[RnB Fan]

Leave home either earlier or later to miss the line of traffic! I've been guilty of shooting up the outside of a line of vehicles, slotting in two or three cars from the front and then creating my own space. As another Welly commuter I agree with Grub - if you keep doing dangerous shit you will get nailed as some stage.

[Phurrball]

Just like I do when driving my car.

I would stay in my correct lane for the direction I want to go for as long as it takes, waiting my turn in the queue of traffic just like everybody else, with my indicator going so everyone can see what direction I intend to go.

That's not a problem in Dunners, where traffic is non-existent (lived there until 2 years ago) In Duh'Auckland, 'tis another matter entirely.

i'm with the cheeky buggers that would pootle up the right lane and slot in behind the front car.

[Tank]

Yep, I'd take the right turn lane and then rudely and dangerously turn left pissing off the car drivers - and here's the important part - I wouldn't whinge if I got hit because I knew I was being naughty.

I also support the following, at my own risk:

- weaving in and out of cars
- splitting when the traffic is already doing 90kmh
- using the between-lane space as if it was a mtorcycle lane
- intimidating cars with their proximity

Just in case I missed it - thats sarcasm right? :msn-wink:


....- if you keep doing dangerous shit you will get nailed as some stage.

Just to clarify - its not me that is doing it - it is something that I observe. Im lucky to actually join atthe top of the street - so waiting in line is only a few car lenghts for me - no biggie. Hell, I have only filtered once (didnt like it - but hey Im going to HTFU)

The bikers I am mentioning are using the right lane to bypass (guessing about) 40 cars going to a give way on a busy road - so the saving in time for them is substantial.

[Ixion]

Just like I do when driving my car.

I would stay in my correct lane for the direction I want to go for as long as it takes, waiting my turn in the queue of traffic just like everybody else, with my indicator going so everyone can see what direction I intend to go.

I don't drive a two wheeled car.

[Drum]

thats sarcasm right? :msn-wink:


Nope. :msn-wink:

[dipshit]

That's not a problem in Dunners, where traffic is non-existent (lived there until 2 years ago) In Duh'Auckland, 'tis another matter entirely.


Correct. No real point in pushing in to the front of a queue to only save yourself a minute or so in typical Dunedin traffic. May as well avoid the risk and not make a nuisance of yourself to other drivers.

However if I was passing through Auckland or Wellington while touring the North Island say, I would still take my time in traffic simply because I would not be use to pushing my way through... so my reply is how I would do it.

[Usarka]

Barring that, squeeze in behind or in front of the frontmost car so that you wouldn't be overtaking them around the corner. This could of course piss off some of the car drivers, but the choice is yours...

In auckland that's likely to end in physical pain sooner or later.

I have no problems with going around the right but it is 100% the riders responsibility to avoid any hazards. If you're not up to the task or willing to take the risk then dont do it.

[ambler]

I still dont get why 'undertaking' is not allowed. That would solve this problem wouldnt it?

Edit: ah never mind this... getting ahead of myself again

[homer]

Just interested in peoples thoughts on how to do this.

Not far from my home there is an intersection that I often see bikers get into trouble with - and was interested on how people would approach it.

Its a T intersection.

When approaching the T there is a long line of turning Left cars and a turn right lane that is generally empty. There is no room to go up the left of the cars as they are normally pulled all the way over to keep the right lane free.

The road that the T meets is busy (East coast road) and it also has a turn right area (often used).

What I see are bikers going up the 'turn right lane' then when at the front of the queue taking the same gap as the car to turn left, but taking a wide corner (effectively overtaking them in the corner).

This morning the car didnt see the biker (or assumed that he was turning right - after all he was in the turn right lane), and the cage tok the corner a little wide. This pushed the bike wider to avoid him almost putting him 'head on' with a car on East Coast road. I have seen this happen a few times.

How would others take this?

As a motorcyclist
i think if you dumb enough to be in the right lane turning left ...........then good im not in the cage next to you or id run you down

lots more like me out there
I had a car the other day pull out to pass a 4wd just as i came out of the drive from work as i turn left theres a car driving at me .......fuck you bitch im not moving ,while hanging the finger at her .

[sprag]

Just wait in the left, As i only ride the bike during the weekends i dont need to be anywhere fast :)

[fireball]

if it is the intersection im thinking of...
i just go up the right hand side of the traffic (usually 40+ cars) until i reach the painted line that separates it into left and right turning lanes and slot in behind one of the cars, saves me time and doesnt put me in too much danger.

[Patar]

If you insist on filtering to the front of the queue and taking the same gap as the front-most car, then I feel the safest option would be to follow the car round the corner but slide in behind the car as you're going around the corner.
If the traffic you're turning into is relatively slow rush hour traffic, the car on the main street should hopefully have given a bit of space for you and the car to jump into; once you've turned onto the main road and slotted in behind the car that also turned you can just filter past it.

I would say that this approach is safer as you don't have to accelerate as quickly around a corner that could be likely to have deisel or tar strips or white lines or countless other hazards (not to mention the risk of being run into oncoming traffic or encountering traffic that has stopped just around the corner).

[PrincessBandit]

No surprises here, I'm with Grub, RnB Fan, dipshit and Usarka. If the rider was the only one putting themselves in dangers way (even if it is only potentially) and the only one to suffer the consequences of impatient or foolish behaviour then I'd say "knock yaself out buddy". Unfortunately in a setting such as Tank describes other law abiding road users are at the bikes mercy (a little paradoxical sounding in know). As a cage driver too, I would also be inclined to go along with homer - bikes which move into my safety space (which as a responsible driver I try to ensure) really piss me off. But then so do other cagers who do the same thing. While I understand the bikes advantage in being able to do some of these manouevres in the hands of both skilled riders, and knobheads, are those minutes saved really worth risking your precious bike, life or lives of others? The perception of time is all relative - a few minutes which seems like forever when we're stuck in traffic or some other unpleasant situation flies in an instant when we're doing something we enjoy, yet only the same amount of time has passed. It's all in how we choose to interpret it.

[Ixion]

For the benefit of newbies.

Filtering on a motorcycle is just common sense. In the UK it is mandatory. On a straight intersection (you and the traffic around you are going straight ahead), there is little problem. Most cagers have reflexes that make tectonic creep look fast. And are asleep anyway. And even small bikes can out accelerate cars up to 50 kph or so. So, filter to front, keep alert (lerts eat very little and make excellent companions); when the lights go green (or you see a gap), launch! If you do it right you should be through the intersection before the front cage is moving (DO remember to check for red light runners crossing your path before launch).

However, the situation posited by the OP, turning at an intersection, is more tricky. Bikes don't do so good at acceleration into a curve. So you need to pay more attention.

When you get to the front of the queue, check out the cagers. Are they grey, somnolent, and dithery? Nine times out of ten, the answer is yes. If so, then when the lights go green (etc), move briskly in a straight line to the far side of the lane you need to turn into, and then turn very sharply, like a really late apex (this is where you need to remember those lessons on counter steering). As soon as you are upright again, full gauntlet! But, while doing this, you need to keep a close eye on what the cage beside you is doing. If your assessment was wrong (or if the cager was the one in ten that is vaguely sentient), and you find the cage has launched quickly enough to be beside you , then you need to brake , hardish, BEFORE you reach the point where you need to turn in (ie while still travelling straight ahead). Now drop in behind the cage . You will be safe to do this, because the odds of having two sentient cagers one behind the other, are in meteor strike odds . So there will be a gap between the quick off the mark first cage and the dithery second one. Into which you drop. All is well.

You could of course be a two wheeled car and just sit in the line of traffic, but then I really cannot comprehend why you are riding a motorcycle. And you would probably be wiser not to.

As always, if the queue is only two or three cars long, it may not be worth bothering.

EDIT: The situation is different if you are on a chook chaser . Then you cna almost always go up the left, using the ever available auxiliary chook lane where necessary. And just eliminate the corner, using that chook lane again. Small and manoeuvarable bikes like the GN250 can often do the same.

EDITY EDIT: I was sort of assuming a left teurn , as per the OP. A right turn, you can do the same way, but since you will not need to trun across the cage, it may be easier, if you have lights or a decent gap, just to launch hard on an angle. Watch out for traffic islands if you do this. DAMHIK.

[Drum]

A perfect description of the required technique. It's not as dangerous as it sounds either.

[Usarka]

Another tip, when you are at the front of the queue, put down the foot on the side that you will be turning (in this case the left side). This way the bike is already leaning slightly in the direction you are turning which makes turning easier.

of course you need to make a call specific to the situation, sometimes on a right hand corner it may be more prudent to cover the back brake instead of right foot down.

[PrincessBandit]

As a cage driver too, I would also be inclined to go along with homer - bikes which move into my safety space (which as a responsible driver I try to ensure) really piss me off. But then so do other cagers who do the same thing.

Oh, i thought a little more about this and feel i should add that it is bikes and cars which FORCE their way into my safety zone which really annoy me:Oi: I do allow others to move in front of me when they're not doing so in an intimidating fashion (being the reasonable person that I am) :rolleyes:

[car]

(DO remember to check for red light runners crossing your path before launch).

*wince*

Yeees. That's very important. Another good reason to filter to front minus one.

Also, pedestrians (human and animal) using the same lull in traffic to cross the road. They're watching the car next to you, they're expecting that car to take five seconds to get off the line. They're not expecting you to go for the holeshot.

[Skyryder]

If you are going to run up the right lane and then squeeze into the left lane at the last minute you are definatley going to piss someone off. You take up just as much space on the a bike as a car, so imgine that you are in a cage waiting patiently in the left lane another cage comes up on the right hand lane and pushes in how are you going to feel. And some want to do that on a bike. Madness.

Skyyrder

[rok-the-boat]

Seems quite normal to me, apart from being knocked off. Ya gotta be careful.

[xwhatsit]

EDIT: The situation is different if you are on a chook chaser . Then you cna almost always go up the left, using the ever available auxiliary chook lane where necessary. And just eliminate the corner, using that chook lane again. Small and manoeuvarable bikes like the GN250 can often do the same.
Often far safer on the left-hand corners. The advantage of 18" spoked wheels, I suppose. Just keep moving -- don't stop, or you get a $40 parking ticket :niceone: Some pedestrians get the shits, but that's what ATGATT is for, you never know when you'll need to fend off an angry woman with an umbrella or restaurateur wielding a café chair. I worry about hurting my rims/forks hopping steep curbs at an angle like this; should I?


Watch out for traffic islands if you do this. DAMHIK.
:laugh::laugh::lol::lol:

[dipshit]

You could of course be a two wheeled car and just sit in the line of traffic, but then I really cannot comprehend why you are riding a motorcycle. And you would probably be wiser not to.



Oh please... :bs:

And just who the hell are you to define what motorcycling is or isn't..??

[dipshit]

Yep, I'd take the right turn lane and then rudely and dangerously turn left pissing off the car drivers - and here's the important part - I wouldn't whinge if I got hit because I knew I was being naughty.


Then in that case, can the rest of us have the right to not use our public money to pay for your hospital treatment... and share insurance costs and everything else..??

Please, please, please? If that's the attitude you want to take?

[dipshit]

Then in that case, can the rest of us have the right to not use our public money to pay for your hospital treatment... and share insurance costs and everything else..??

Please, please, please? If that's the attitude you want to take?

P.S.. Can we also have the option to exclude you from the statistics that make us all look like idiots..??

[Usarka]

Then in that case, can the rest of us have the right to not use our public money to pay for your hospital treatment... and share insurance costs and everything else..??

Please, please, please? If that's the attitude you want to take?
It's a no fault system.


P.S.. Can we also have the option to exclude you from the statistics that make us all look like idiots..??

Some amongst us dont need stats :whistle:

If you want to change the stats also get farm bikes and off-road bike accidents removed from the "motorcycle" category......

[dipshit]

It's a no fault system.

True, but some people don't even care.

"Yep, I'd take the right turn lane and then rudely and dangerously turn left pissing off the car drivers - and here's the important part - I wouldn't whinge if I got hit because I knew I was being naughty"

I bet he would care a bit more if he had to spend the rest of his life paying off his own hospital treatment... but that's ok, we'll pick up the bill for him so he can carry on being the big tough motorcyclist.




If you want to change the stats also get farm bikes and off-road bike accidents removed from the "motorcycle" category......

Now that's an interesting point.

[Drum]

Chill out dipshit.

Can I assume that you have never played rugby, eaten fatty/ salty foods and never exceeded the speed limit on your bike? All risky activities that one chooses to do, and yet the tax payer would have to pick up the tab in the long run.

Careful you don't take out an eye with the sharp end of that knitting needle. Nana.

[nonferrous]

the rest of the world gives bikes the right and is completely tolerated whether cage drivers like it or not to push up to the front anyway they can

[homer]

No surprises here, I'm with Grub, RnB Fan, dipshit and Usarka. If the rider was the only one putting themselves in dangers way (even if it is only potentially) and the only one to suffer the consequences of impatient or foolish behaviour then I'd say "knock yaself out buddy". Unfortunately in a setting such as Tank describes other law abiding road users are at the bikes mercy (a little paradoxical sounding in know). As a cage driver too, I would also be inclined to go along with homer - bikes which move into my safety space (which as a responsible driver I try to ensure) really piss me off. But then so do other cagers who do the same thing. While I understand the bikes advantage in being able to do some of these manouevres in the hands of both skilled riders, and knobheads, are those minutes saved really worth risking your precious bike, life or lives of others? The perception of time is all relative - a few minutes which seems like forever when we're stuck in traffic or some other unpleasant situation flies in an instant when we're doing something we enjoy, yet only the same amount of time has passed. It's all in how we choose to interpret it.



I like the sound of the thread .... we must have something in common
:niceone:

[dipshit]

Chill out dipshit.

Can I assume that you have never played rugby, eaten fatty/ salty foods and never exceeded the speed limit on your bike? All risky activities that one chooses to do, and yet the tax payer would have to pick up the tab in the long run.

Careful you don't take out an eye with the sharp end of that knitting needle. Nana.

Oh? Don't like the sound of that idea, a? So you would start moaning and bitching if the nurse handed you the bill then?

Not so much the big bad motorcyclist that can take it on the chin now then.

[Drum]

What are you on about? And why are you so angry? This is a discussion on an internet forum. I think you need to take it easy pal.

[Ixion]

Oh please... :bs:

And just who the hell are you to define what motorcycling is or isn't..??

The dude that's been doing it for near half a century. And does it every day rain or shine through Auckland traffic.

Next question.