Did you keep your original pipes?

[Angusdog]

Cars to face tests for noise (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4321847a11.html), but the new legislation covers motorcycles, light trucks etc. Existing vehicles have to meet 95dB, which I think my V&H pipes would after the guys at Wgtn Motorcycles took the edge of them.

As delivered, the pipes would have been for off-road use only, not much use on a cruiser. Which means importers could have to refund your money if the pipes are too loud, under the consumer guarantees act (fit for use intended, i.e. on a road-going motorcycle).

I believe although the limits for existing vehicles is the same as the current limit, the difference is the noise testing. Previously (and correct me if I'm wrong), it was entirely subjective. And we all know how a tin shed (or VTNZ testing station) amplifies otherwise inoffensive engines.

[GaZBur]

Noise is going to be a big concern this year, especially for competition.

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/results.aspx (Scroll to bottom of page)

The issue of noise control is very high on our radar screen at the moment and will remain so until we make headway in reducing excessively loud bikes. With the advent of four strokes becoming more and more popular, noise issues have come to the forefront at many local MX tracks. What has magnified this challenge is the addition of non-standard race pipes. Not all non-standard pipes are loud, in fact many are similar to standard equipment. However, there are many that blow the needle off the scale when it comes to decibel readings. It also becomes an issue if standard and accessory mufflers are not repacked correctly. MNZ is going to be working with the accessory companies and the distributors to create information documents to help educate riders on how to repack mufflers etc.

Late last month MNZ called a meeting with the trade and a number of accessory companies to agree a way forward on how we will deal with this major challenge. We unanimously agreed that we must have a united front to address this, as a number of local tracks throughout New Zealand were at risk of closing due to noise complaints. This is serious and I ask you to support us with reducing noise emission.

At the meeting we have agreed that from 1.1.08 it is our intention to limited decibel output to 96db. MNZ will be running a number of national sessions at meetings to be identified, to provide the rider with noise readings from their machines. This is an education program with a view to heighten awareness and to create personal awareness. It is our intention that at the first round of the NZ MX Championships in September 29-30, all machines will be tested. If the rider’s machine exceeds 96db they will be warned to reduce the noise output for the next round. If the rider turns up to the next round and it still exceeds the 96db, they will not start the meeting until compliance is reached. Generally standard MX machines comply with this 96db requirement from new.

MNZ have approached the Government with a view to getting funding for a quality noise meter for every MNZ affiliated club and also provide training so that clubs can self manage this important issue. I am very aware that there is always debate over the conditions that noise readings are taken but we will clarify our requirements over the coming months.

It is in all our interests that this ceiling is achieved. I am not trying to stress members or exaggerate this issue, but we must act responsibly or we may find ourselves having very few places to enjoy our sport or having to apply for resource consents to have club days.

My pet hate is Harleys. Why are they allowed to be so damn noisy, its not as if it's for performance reasons its to be LOUD because some riders think loud bikes are cool. I ended up between a couple of Harley cruisers on the toy run and had to move position so my sons hearing wasn't damaged. Its not as if the noise would increase the performance of a bike that would be unstable at higher than legal speeds, god they are unstable and wobble at legal speeds!

Rant over - honour is satisfied!

[EnzoYug]

I've kept my original pipes in a box under the stairs. Might be useful for selling with the bike, or to pass my WOF* someday... How noisy is 95db anyway?

edit: This loud apparently! (http://www.phonemerchants.com/wilsounrinex.html)

*however the Power of Hyosung is a lot less noisy than 95db so I should be safe.

[vifferman]

What original pipes? :spudwhat:
It's got the original headers and cat converter, but Hoo Nose where the original muffler is - maybe it's been recycled into Hyosungs or summat. I'm sure one could 2.3 scooters out of the average over-engineered Snakei muffler...

One of the reasons I bought the VifFerraRi was that it already had an aftermarket zorst (Satantune), saving me the extended campaign required to "replace a perfectly good motorcycle part" :rolleyes:

But (however!) what I did do was find out who the Noo Zilund Satantune agent was (that Rees bloke), and order a new 'spud'. When it arrived, the other spud got cut down, and that's what's currently in the Satantune: a little louder than a stock pipe, but not offensively so. With no spud, it is rather irritating, and I can't stand it for more than a couple of days.
I'm reasonably sure the zorst will comply with the unmodified spud in, but I'd need to have the screw welded up, so that it is "not constructed or modified in a way that allows a person to interfere readily with its operation or reduce its effectiveness".
I may also need to obtain a compliance label from Staintune: not that it has any legal standing here, but just so I can deflect any undue bureaucratic hassles.

[MSTRS]

I heard that there will be testing not only for noise, but also for emissions. If this is so, there will be a lot of after-market cans that pass the noise (95dB is blooooody loud) but fail the second part. The problem being that with free-flow systems, there will be no trapping of incompletely burnt hydrocarbons.
I have a stock can under the bench, just in case,

[bucket boy]

the new laws are just crap theres no exact plan ie like inside a building how far away from vehicle how many revs cars have had law in for while now and after going thru it all it still up to copper wether he thinks it noisey or not

[Ixion]

There will be no WoF test for emissions (other than the existing visible smoke test). However, vehicles entering the country (new or used) WILL be tested. There is ambiguity about whether a re-registered (ie , a new VIN) will need emission testing. probably not.

If a WoF tester thinks the exhaust is (a) not standard and (b) not obviously as quiet as original (note that is an 'and' - so standard pipes are OK no matter how loud), he must refer you to an approved noise tester dude. Who will test the noise with a noise meter according to a very specfic test regime. Which gives a pass or fail.

There is another fish-hook in the new law though, which may be even more problematic for bikes



It will also be illegal to modify any new or used vehicles’ equipment that could cause their emissions to worsen


So, if your original can contained a cat (as most do nowdays), and that nice new Yoshi does not, it will be illegal to fit it at all. No matter what noise it makes. But existing installations are OK. So of course you fitted it years ago, didn't you ?

The dB level for bikes remains at 100dB by the way, we get more than cages.

[MSTRS]

The dB level for bikes remains at 105dB by the way, we get more than cages.

105 ??? Now that is serious noise. My Yoshi is about 87dB, which is fine, and has been on the bike 'since it was new' - but how to prove that? Seems the LVVT guy here will just give bikers a tick cos he believes the law is an ass...

[vifferman]

.. if your original can contained a cat (as most do nowdays), and that nice new Yoshi does not, it will be illegal to fit it at all.
That requires that the tester knows which vehicles were originally fitted with cats, and which were not. F'rexample, the 98/99 and 00/01 models of the VFR800 look pretty much the same (apart from mirrors, and handlebar-mounted manual 'enrichment' lever), but the later model has a cat, O2 sensors, and a different ECU. It's not uncommon practice for owners of the later models to fit the earlier models' larger-diameter headers and collector. Your average mechanic/tester would have no idea this had been done, unless they were au fait with model specifications.

Back in the real world, the testing regime is pretty 'dumbed down', with reference to "original fitment" and the like. There's no way a tester can be sure what's good/bad, so they'll just rely on what's obvious (obviously loud/smoky/shiny/whatever), and use the "if in doubt, chuck it out" system. Then the testing agency has no comeback on them if they pass something that is subsequently picked up elsewhere, and the onus is on the owner to obtain proof their vehicle is OK.

In any case, the regulations aren't being rigorously enforced now (there are still many noisy/smoky/obviously noncompliant vehicles on the road), so I can't see things changing much, despite the new regulations.

[Ixion]

105 ??? Now that is serious noise. My Yoshi is about 87dB, which is fine, and has been on the bike 'since it was new' - but how to prove that? Seems the LVVT guy here will just give bikers a tick cos he believes the law is an ass...

Sorry. I got that wrong. Bikes are 100dB , as at present, not 105. Less than 125cc is 96dB

[vifferman]

105 ??? Now that is serious noise. My Yoshi is about 87dB, which is fine, and has been on the bike 'since it was new' - but how to prove that? Seems the LVVT guy here will just give bikers a tick cos he believes the law is an ass...
Well that's it - once you have your compliance, you're OK.
The net catches the noisier fishes, they get tested and pass/fail, and from then on, it's not an issue.

[Ixion]

BTW, trucks and buses are excluded. They can be as noisy as they want.



My pet hate is Harleys. Why are they allowed to be so damn noisy, its not as if it's for performance reasons its to be LOUD because some riders think loud bikes are cool.


See above.

[GaZBur]

105 ??? Now that is serious noise. My Yoshi is about 87dB...

From Howstuffworks (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question124.htm)
On the decibel scale, the smallest audible sound (near total silence) is 0 dB. A sound 10 times more powerful is 10 dB. A sound 100 times more powerful than near total silence is 20 dB. A sound 1,000 times more powerful than near total silence is 30 dB. Here are some common sounds and their decibel ratings:

Near total silence - 0 dB
A whisper - 15 dB
Normal conversation - 60 dB
A lawnmower - 90 dB
A car horn - 110 dB
A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB
A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB
You know from your own experience that distance affects the intensity of sound -- if you are far away, the power is greatly diminished. All of the ratings above are taken while standing near the sound.
Any sound above 85 dB can cause hearing loss, and the loss is related both to the power of the sound as well as the length of exposure...
So 105 is way too loud. Even assuming your helmet blocks some of the noise, bystanders don't wear helmets you are damaging your hearing and that of others around you.
Your yoshi is responsible noise by that standard, and will comply with MNZ too!

[vifferman]

BTW, trucks and buses are excluded. They can be as noisy as they want.
That's really fucked up. They are/were exempt from emissions testing too (?)
I know it's harder to make heavy vehicles quiet (engine/drivetrain noise 'gets out'), and that motorcycles have a higher limit for that very reason, but it's still fuktup.
When you read the history/preamble to all this, you realise that like the 'Boy Racer' laws, the regulations are largely a kneejerk reaction to bleating by a vocal few, rather than a sensible, pragmatic and logical application of well-considered regulation.
I don't disagree with the philosophy behind the regulation, but I fear it looks like being yet another piece of crap SafetyNazism.

[James Deuce]

Yes, I kept my standard pipe.

Btw, a helmet worn without earplugs will be sending something in the order of 92-94dB straight to your ears. That's ignoring traffic noise, your own engine/exhaust noise, and the pillion screaming at you to slow down.

[MSTRS]

.... it looks like being yet another piece of crap SafetyNazism.

I thought that was the point. I mean, if logic crept in, we might have to think for ourselves. Couldn't have that, could we?

[Qkchk]

The dB level for bikes remains at 100dB by the way, we get more than cages.

God bless Two-Strokers! :love:

[robertydog]

Nice little article this. Explains it all.

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=31615

[robertydog]

Do you think my bike would pass the test? Put the volume up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unbMck2TWLA

[James Deuce]

Do you think my bike would pass the test? Put the volume up.

Yes. Yours has a pleasant tone rather than ear-bleeding agony when travelling at 236 km/hr a mere 5 metres away.

[MSTRS]

Yes. Yours has a pleasant tone rather than ear-bleeding agony when travelling at 236 km/hr a mere 5 metres away.

That didn't creep in until the 299 mark. Eh, Rob?

[vifferman]

The worrisome part is this:

The amended Vehicle Equipment Rule revises the wording so that the exhaust noise output:

“must be less than, or similar to, the noise output from the vehicle’s original exhaust system at the time of the vehicle’s manufacture”. This still provides for inspector discretion but is a more defined description.

How the fook an inspector is supposed to determine this, I dunno.

'Inspector discretion' defined:
Motorcycle shop with WOF facilities:
"Choice pipes bro! Fuk'n loud though, eh? Better keep one eye open for cops when you're riding!"

VTNZ with failed/retired mechanic SafetyNazis:
"Errr... yeah, that's not the O-rig-i-nal zorst, izzit? Sounds pretty noisy to me, innit? That's a fail, that is!"

[robertydog]

They wouldny get much noise out of an R1 going thru the gears to 50kmhr

[Angusdog]

The objective test is to ISO 5130, which is a microphone placed 0.5m from the exhaust outlet...

...at 75% of peak power revs (so 7,500rpm if your bike develops max power at 10,000rpm).

I'm not sure how loud 100dB is, but I'll be changing my pipes twice a year, it would seem. Have to be gentle with the exhaust gaskets or it will be costly (Over $50 each WoF).

[vifferman]

The objective test is to ISO 5130, which is a microphone placed 0.5m from the exhaust outlet...

...at 75% of peak power revs (so 7,500rpm if your bike develops max power at 10,000rpm).
That's stupid.
Normally, these tests specify that the mic is at a 45-degree angle to the zorst outlet, otherwise the pressure of the zorst pulses themselves (which isn't necessarily audible to a human bean) affects the reading.
My worry is that on the VFR, the cam gears themselves contribute about 120 dB to the overall noise (the reason they dropped them on the VTec).
I guess dry-clutch Ducatis, and rattly HD-engined bikes will be in the same (noisy) boat...

[Swoop]

Still have the standard pipes fitted. I'm a Caring Unshaven Nineties Type though... OK, it is going to be attended to over the break!
Bike is too quiet. more cagers need to be alerted.


...the 'Boy Racer' laws, the regulations are largely a kneejerk reaction to bleating by a vocal few, rather than a sensible, pragmatic and logical application of well-considered regulation.
In which way does this differ from any other bit of legislation that our un-intelligensia creates???

[vifferman]

In which way does this differ from any other bit of legislation that our un-intelligensia creates???
One lives in hope, does one...







That one day there will be a revolution! :headbang:
The SafetyNazis, petty bureaucrats and lawmongers will be near the front of the queue for the firing squad, just behind career politicians, bleeding-heart liberals, and various sorts of agents / commission salespeople.

[Pwalo]

That's stupid.
Normally, these tests specify that the mic is at a 45-degree angle to the zorst outlet, otherwise the pressure of the zorst pulses themselves (which isn't necessarily audible to a human bean) affects the reading.
My worry is that on the VFR, the cam gears themselves contribute about 120 dB to the overall noise (the reason they dropped them on the VTec).
I guess dry-clutch Ducatis, and rattly HD-engined bikes will be in the same (noisy) boat...

I think any air cooled bike will be in the same boat. I'm sure that my old GS' engine was noisier than it's exhaust. The SV is pretty quiet stock. Probably noisiest when it goes through it's start up routine.

I guess that's why my bike's plastered with stickers, and stamp on the pipe stating it's DB rating. It'll save the inspector having to make a decision.

[vifferman]

I guess that's why my bike's plastered with stickers, and stamp on the pipe stating it's DB rating. It'll save the inspector having to make a decision.
That's why I'm thinking of getting one of the badges Staintune make for their Aussie (NSW? Vic?) customers' zorsts.

After I got the VFR, I removed all the silly stickers it was festooned with. The first to go was the one on the frame that said the zorst complied with blah blah blah, and named the serial number it should've been stamped with. :pinch:
The VTR1000 was just as bad - the mufflers were stamped with the compliance info and dB ratings it complied with, which made the obvious bastardisation of the endcaps all the more glaring. (Not that you could fail to notice how loud they were - they set off EVERY car alarm in the immediate vicinity).

[robertydog]

I found this link, i hope it helps.
http://www.lvvta.org.nz/Noise%20Emissions%20Std030706.pdf

[nonferrous]

cheers Dog but I don't think it applies to standard motor vehicles as they are not classified as LVV

the bike shops sell a lot of Yoshi equiped new bikes so I will rely on their WOF service to pass the new test subjective as it is

[MSTRS]

cheers Dog but I don't think it applies to standard motor vehicles as they are not classified as LVV



LVV applies to any vehicle and part thereof which is not a standard production or original factory equipment unit. Insurance cos have asked for years as to whether a vehicle is modified. Could be the exhaust, mags, Recaro seats, steering wheel...whatever. In theory, LVV covers the same sort of stuff.

[Angusdog]

Having a modified vehicle doesn't automatically mean your insurance is invalid. In fact, your insurance should still pay out even if your car doesn't have a wof, if you can prove it was in a warrantable state at the time of the accident. However, they will almost certainly try it on and reject a claim with that as an excuse.

I'm imagining that WoFs issued by a motorcycle shop are going to be more lenient on the subjective noise test, up to a level. They'll want the business but not the flak from the MOT or LTSA for issuing duff WoFs. So if your bike's exhaust is bordering on dodgy, a shop should be a better bet than VTNZ's gang of old duffers.

[MSTRS]

Having a modified vehicle doesn't automatically mean your insurance is invalid.

I never said that. But they do ask, and if you get your $3000 mags stolen the insurer will rightly reject the claim on the basis that they believed your car had standard rims.
The issue though is LVV - which covers areas such as compliance with regulations, fit for purpose handling etc, and these are things in which insurers are also interested.

[pritch]

My WoF is due in the new year before the law change. Hopefully the novelty of the new laws will have worn off by the time it becomes due again.

It would be asking for trouble to turn up at a testing station in June with a noisy exhaust. If your warrant is due in June, renewing it in May might be a good move.

Meantime, maybe I ought to print out the Db figures from the Arrow website...
Just to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for anyone to actually exercise their subjectivity.

[jrandom]

if your original can contained a cat...

<img src="http://www.shorty.com/bonsaikitten/squishGray.jpg"/>

[SPman]

Most aftermarket cans should be OK - my Yoshi had a 95db sticker on it and that sounded about right.

The loudest I've heard of was a guy in the UK who turned a CBR250 into a replica old Honda racer, complete with 4 megaphones and was asked to leave the track on his first visit - he tested at 143 db!

[Ixion]

105 ??? Now that is serious noise. My Yoshi is about 87dB, which is fine, and has been on the bike 'since it was new' - but how to prove that? Seems the LVVT guy here will just give bikers a tick cos he believes the law is an ass...


A gotcha to be aware of . Most dB numbers stamped on pipes will be as a result of a "drive by" noise test. Which gives different results to our (new) "shove the microphone up the exhaust " method.

Roughly speaking, 86dB by drive-by is reckoned about 100 dB by mike-up-pipe.

[MSTRS]

A gotcha to be aware of . Most dB numbers stamped on pipes will be as a result of a "drive by" noise test. Which gives different results to our (new) "shove the microphone up the exhaust " method.

Roughly speaking, 86dB by drive-by is reckoned about 100 dB by mike-up-pipe.

Not so with mine. That 87dB was measured with the mic about 4 feet behind the stationary bike in my garge, bike revving at about 5000.
And there are no ratings stamped into my Yoshi or affixed etc (that I can see)

[James Deuce]

My Yoshi is about 2 decibels. I can hear the battery box rusting over the exhaust noise.