VTR1000 vs SV1000 vs XB12R

[Renegade]

looking for some input from the masses,

i now have a full licence after procrasternating far two long (almost 2 yrs) and had enough of the hyo 250.

while i havnt totally ruled out the 600's like the GSXR and especially the 675 :love: ive gone off the er6 that i was keen to get.

im looking at something a little cruisier than the a hypo 600 but not a cruiser and the inside word is the vtwin 1000 has about the same power as a 600 anyway.

i checked out the new SV1000 on the side of the road when i was assisting the rider, it had twin bros pipes on it and it sounded soooo sweeeeet.

i checked out the new VTR1000, i really liked the package as an all round bike and the quallity is undisputed but this is the last year they are going to make them.
a mate is lending me his '01' to try out, ive sat on it and it feels light for a big bike which is nice

then there is the buell, looks fat, allways wanted a harley since i was 10yrs old, so i kinda ticks off that box.
however i worry a little about the servicing and the crazy design with oil and fuel in frames etc

oh yeah, i just love that V-Twin sound, but looking for a well built bike, unlike the hyo

so please, your thoughts people

any other bikes you can think of throw them in here but give me some feed back on them and maybe a pic or 2

cheers

[Hitcher]

Ask Dafe what happened to his SV. Did WMC trade it for him? It sounded gorgeous with those TBRs.

[98tls]

VTRs ok but boring,SV is nothing but ugly and no matter what the journos come up with reeks of a "letdown" unless your prepared to mod the fuck out of it as a member on here has done with much success,the buell however may well suit your needs,a simple test ride will reveal all.

[RantyDave]

Ask Dafe what happened to his SV.
His brother (?) just passed his full so the bike is being passed down.

My 2c - the obvious: ride them all then decide. I've ridden the SVthou and Buell and the Buell was WAY WAY better. The build quality seemed really quite awesome, but I didn't really like the engine (I like 'em to rev).

Try the 675. Try the Street 675 which will probably blow them all away.

If you're looking to buy new - test ride them. Shops need to do something for their money, right?

Dave

[NighthawkNZ]

VTRs ok but boring...

Depends what you call boring... and or if its kitted or not...

[Usarka]

I love the vtr. but if its the last year its being made then it'll affect resale. maybe. and it drinks gas quick.

Lots of happy SV owners. Didnt do it for me but what the feck would i know.

Buell is different. Not a dime a dozen jappa. Is that important?

[98tls]

His brother (?) just passed his full so the bike is being passed down.

My 2c - the obvious: ride them all then decide. I've ridden the SVthou and Buell and the Buell was WAY WAY better. The build quality seemed really quite awesome, but I didn't really like the engine (I like 'em to rev).

Try the 675. Try the Street 675 which will probably blow them all away.

If you're looking to buy new - test ride them. Shops need to do something for their money, right?

Dave As good as the 675 was after riding one and taking into consideration the big picture it was about as exciting as a hard boiled egg.Reminded me of why i bought a 1/5th throttle insert,although it needs it much more than what i bought mine for.

[98tls]

Depends what you call boring... and or if its kitted or not... So..wanna do that Glenavy straight again then.........

[kiwifruit]

675 for the win

[NighthawkNZ]

So..wanna do that Glenavy straight again then.........

Well there yeah go... straights are boring in themself... ;) even Paulas says that now :D

[98tls]

675 for the win Ive this ols sewing machine in the garage................loves revs,about as much torque as a sardine..............

[98tls]

Well there yeah go... straights are boring in themself... ;) even Paulas says that now :D yea nice but what happened to ya through the twisty bits?

[manwithav8]

The monster sounds great, comfy to ride, looks cool.. You have several options with the monster...

If your looking for big cc then the M900 through to the s2r1K or s4rs will definately keep you up there with the litre bikes as far as road legality goes. On the track the s4rs will hold its own along with the inline 4's...

Oh and did I mention the lovely sound. People will come up to you in the streets and ask what it is, they draw attention with the token dry clutch rattle which is cool.. Animals run scared and children think they are about to be eaten by some sort of mechanical monster........

Just my 5c

Oh and I am bias lol

[kiwifruit]

Ive this ols sewing machine in the garage................loves revs,about as much torque as a sardine..............

the 675 ftw

are you a heavy man?

[98tls]

the 675 ftw

are you a heavy man? No not at all,just thinking of the big picture.

[NighthawkNZ]

yea nice but what happened to ya through the twisty bits?

I will admitt I slowed down on the twisties as it was my first time on that road and am always a little cautious... (hence why I am still alive and kicking I suppose), as well as waiting for the group, since we were on a group ride...

but in saying that I wasn't that far behind you at all...

[kiwifruit]

No not at all,just thinking of the big picture.

perhaps you have been desensitized (sp!) by the torque of the tls
coming from a 250 most things are going to be fairly thrilling

[98tls]

perhaps you have been desensitized (sp!) by the torque of the tls
coming from a 250 most things are going to be fairly thrilling Which will wear off.once again thinking of the big picture.Go the 12:banana:

[98tls]

I will admitt I slowed down on the twisties as it was my first time on that road and am always a little cautious... (hence why I am still alive and kicking I suppose), as well as waiting for the group, since we were on a group ride...

but in saying that I wasn't that far behind you at all... Dont be so fuckin serious.:clap:

[NighthawkNZ]

Dont be so fuckin serious.:clap:

wasn't.. just being honest... ;)

[Fatjim]

The Vtwin market is kinda stuffed really. Both Suzi eand honda dealers are saying the SV and VTR are being run out in NZ.

It would be nice if they both got off there arses and announce replacements, as both bikes could do with some major updates. But having said that there reasonable value.

I own a VTR and an SV so feel qualified to make comparisons, however I've never ridden a Buell.

They both use about the same amount of gas, I actually get a little more out of the VTR before the warning light comes. Basically they both work out about 12c a km.

The SV has more power, and with the efi has a more responsive engine, but the VTR is smoother, and has less vibration, and doesn't feel like its knocking under load.

The VTR gives me less backstrain, however this is a personal thing and everybody is different.

The stock suspension on both is pitiful for a large person such as myself. They're both too softly sprung in the front, even for the average rider, with not enough low speed damping, and far too much hi speed damping. The VTR used to get hydraulic lock over railways lines etc, although I had slight heavier oil than stock. The SV seems to wallow about more than the VTR. I think this is because the spring is softer on the SV, but I'm only guessing.

The SV looks better in black, although the VTR did come out in a matt black around 2003 which is very tasty. You can't get a sv in red?, or yellow, if your keen on those colours, although the Suzuki dark blue is rather sharp.

Over all, I'm a little disappointed in the SV, given its a 6 year newer design, and a second generation product. However, it is the same price as the VTR so in terms of technology is better value.

[98tls]

The Vtwin market is kinda stuffed really. Both Suzi eand honda dealers are saying the SV and VTR are being run out in NZ.

It would be nice if they both got off there arses and announce replacements, as both bikes could do with some major updates. But having said that there reasonable value.

I own a VTR and an SV so feel qualified to make comparisons, however I've never ridden a Buell.

They both use about the same amount of gas, I actually get a little more out of the VTR before the warning light comes. Basically they both work out about 12c a km.

The SV has more power, and with the efi has a more responsive engine, but the VTR is smoother, and has less vibration, and doesn't feel like its knocking under load.

The VTR gives me less backstrain, however this is a personal thing and everybody is different.

The stock suspension on both is pitiful for a large person such as myself. They're both too softly sprung in the front, even for the average rider, with not enough low speed damping, and far too much hi speed damping. The VTR used to get hydraulic lock over railways lines etc, although I had slight heavier oil than stock. The SV seems to wallow about more than the VTR. I think this is because the spring is softer on the SV, but I'm only guessing.

The SV looks better in black, although the VTR did come out in a matt black around 2003 which is very tasty. You can't get a sv in red?, or yellow, if your keen on those colours, although the Suzuki dark blue is rather sharp.

Over all, I'm a little disappointed in the SV, given its a 6 year newer design, and a second generation product. However, it is the same price as the VTR so in terms of technology is better value. To sum up....budget.

[rocketman1]

Mate,there are alot of very happy SV1000 KB's on this site???
A SV1000 is a bike with fully adjustable suspension, it needs to be set up for yourself, so it may seem odd to you, if someone else has tweaked the suspension to suit themselves.
Whatever you choose, take care for the first few weeks/months of riding until you really know your bike can or cannot do.
And whatever bike you choose, buy a bike that has been well looked after and well serviced.
If are not too rich, the cost of repairs / spare parts and reliability should be a major consideration
Good luck

[Renegade]

Buell is different. Not a dime a dozen jappa. Is that important?

yeah it is kinda important, sometimes anyway, when i got the hyo there wernt to many around, thats out the window now, people still "a what?" when i tell them what i ride.

[Renegade]

The monster sounds great, comfy to ride, looks cool.. You have several options with the monster...

If your looking for big cc then the M900 through to the s2r1K or s4rs will definately keep you up there with the litre bikes as far as road legality goes. On the track the s4rs will hold its own along with the inline 4's...

Oh and did I mention the lovely sound. People will come up to you in the streets and ask what it is, they draw attention with the token dry clutch rattle which is cool.. Animals run scared and children think they are about to be eaten by some sort of mechanical monster........

Just my 5c

Oh and I am bias lol

always had a soft spot for duc's and guzzi's, but i do like fairings aswell, and service costs on a duc may scare me silly, i am going to take a monster for a spin, i think TSS has a duc on the yard for a rasonable price, done bout 30km from memory but i may be wrong

[Ocean1]

then there is the buell, looks fat, allways wanted a harley since i was 10yrs old, so i kinda ticks off that box.
however i worry a little about the servicing and the crazy design with oil and fuel in frames etc

In this case crazy is good. The intent was to produce a very rigid frame and keep the weight down and centralised. It works.

Service costs are very low, the drive belt needs changing only if you manage to damage it, (rare), valves are via hydraulic lifters... really: check oil, gas up and ride.

They are very different, and you may not like it. On the other hand they're a lot of bike for yer bucks, and you might just love it. Check the XB12S also, quite different ergonimics.

[Sidewinder]

vtr because hondas own all that other crap

[paturoa]

All good bikes, but not great bikes (don't tell Big Dave I said that). I am unaware of any major faults with any of them, but they all have minor faults which there are vast on-line resources to help you.

I wanted a new or near new bike and the Buell was too expensive for me. I looked at both the VTR and SV seriously and the main reason I chose the SV over the VTR was the low rev chain snatch on the VTR was worse than the SV (I knew that I was going to be doing a lot of nana commuting)


...the inside word is the vtwin 1000 has about the same power as a 600 anyway.

Yes for top end, but 6 hundies are timid for low / mid range in comparison to these 3.

[manwithav8]

always had a soft spot for duc's and guzzi's, but i do like fairings aswell, and service costs on a duc may scare me silly, i am going to take a monster for a spin, i think TSS has a duc on the yard for a rasonable price, done bout 30km from memory but i may be wrong

Mate don't be deturred by the servicing costs. Ducati has stretched it's servicing intervals over the recent years taking the periods out to 10k instead of the 5- 6k you have on the jappa's.

The only espensive part is when it comes to be belt change (20k ) and valve check. But if your handy with a spanner the jobs are not hard at all. Anyone can change oil and filter and clean a pick up screen so thats the in between servicing taken care of. Also, if you go with a 2v model then you have air cooling baby, no cooling system to look after...

Fairings are cool but look like any other sport bike ( let the bashing begin lol ) but the monster has a look of it's own.

Don;t get me wrong people, I like fairings to and someday will have a faired bike, but for now, naked is my way!!

[Renegade]

In this case crazy is good. The intent was to produce a very rigid frame and keep the weight down and centralised. It works.

Service costs are very low, the drive belt needs changing only if you manage to damage it, (rare), valves are via hydraulic lifters... really: check oil, gas up and ride.

They are very different, and you may not like it. On the other hand they're a lot of bike for yer bucks, and you might just love it. Check the XB12S also, quite different ergonimics.

i think the 12s looks a little odd with the short tail rounded off and all, can some tell me what a "red key" is that is advertised with some ducati's??

[nonferrous]

VTRs ok but boring,SV is nothing but ugly and no matter what the journos come up with reeks of a "letdown" unless your prepared to mod the fuck out of it as a member on here has done with much success,the buell however may well suit your needs,a simple test ride will reveal all.

Agree with ugly etc - I got an 07 SV1000S < 1000 km and front suspension is firm but wooden, back is smoother but feels slow on rebound, steering is slow, steering damper is a waste of metal - I haven't played with it yet but would appreciate link to "member on here has done with much success"

Aside from that SV are low cost sound enough of grunt bikes

[HungusMaximist]

The SV looks better than the VTR, but I reckon sound wise from the exahust, the VTR has more throat.

Of course, there's always the option of owning a TL. They're pretty niche and fidgety bikes for the price but they got a lot of balls. To be honest, the TL is more how bike than anything else, you'll have great fun blowing your money on upgrades.

[paturoa]

but would appreciate link to "member on here has done with much success"

He frequents here quite a lot - www.sv-portal.com

[nonferrous]

Agree with ugly etc - I got an 07 SV1000S < 1000 km and front suspension is firm but wooden, back is smoother but feels slow on rebound, steering is slow, steering damper is a waste of metal - I haven't played with it yet but would appreciate link to "member on here has done with much success"

Aside from that SV are low cost sound enough of grunt bikes

opps too much rush should be

Aside from that SV are low cost, sound good & have reasonable grunt

[Pex Adams]

I've gone from a Gixxer600k5 to a K7 SVthou. As Fatjim mentioned, the soft suspension and the knocking on low rev's, will eventually get the better of you with the Sv, and you'll be wishing you purchased a good example 04/05 Gixxer1000 or CBR1000 instead (as I am now).
However the reason I bought the SV was purely with commuting and 2up riding in mind (as I now have a 100Km round trip everyday). Its a piece of cake to muck with, and the engine will (hopefully) go forever. Plus the Paekakariki Hill is always begging for me to come over (oh wait - here go those voices again:shutup:). Which the bike does as well.
However going back to my old 600, the 600's are amazing sportsbikes, I really didn't want anymore in a toy. Execpt it really lacked in the 2 departments that I was going to be doing a majority of my riding (until wifey gets her full licence). The SV1000 has no issues whatsoever with the wife on the back, nor will the VTR.
I suppose what I'm trying to say here, is get your priorities in order and decide from there, you never know what you might end up with. You could end up on a Tuono, Monster, Superduke, Gixxer750, Z1000, MT01, blarblarblar...

Good luck.

[98tls]

The SV looks better than the VTR, but I reckon sound wise from the exahust, the VTR has more throat.

Of course, there's always the option of owning a TL. They're pretty niche and fidgety bikes for the price but they got a lot of balls. To be honest, the TL is more how bike than anything else, you'll have great fun blowing your money on upgrades. :zzzz:so tell all.............................................

[sinned]

The Vtwin market is kinda stuffed really. Both Suzi eand honda dealers are saying the SV and VTR are being run out in NZ.

I own a VTR and an SV so feel qualified to make comparisons, however I've never ridden a Buell.

The stock suspension on both is pitiful for a large person such as myself. They're both too softly sprung in the front, even for the average rider, with not enough low speed damping, and far too much hi speed damping. The VTR used to get hydraulic lock over railways lines etc, although I had slight heavier oil than stock. The SV seems to wallow about more than the VTR. I think this is because the spring is softer on the SV, but I'm only guessing.

Over all, I'm a little disappointed in the SV, given its a 6 year newer design, and a second generation product. However, it is the same price as the VTR so in terms of technology is better value.

I had an SV1000 from new for 11 months. Agree with Fatjim and he knows me than me.


Agree with ugly etc - I got an 07 SV1000S < 1000 km and front suspension is firm but wooden, back is smoother but feels slow on rebound, steering is slow, steering damper is a waste of metal - I haven't played with it yet but would appreciate link to "member on here has done with much success"

Aside from that SV are low cost sound enough of grunt bikes

The SV is a lot of bike for the money. What you buy depends on a few key factors and price is one.


I've gone from a Gixxer600k5 to a K7 SVthou. As Fatjim mentioned, the soft suspension and the knocking on low rev's, will eventually get the better of you with the Sv, and you'll be wishing you purchased a good example 04/05 Gixxer1000 or CBR1000 instead (as I am now).
However the reason I bought the SV was purely with commuting and 2up riding in mind (as I now have a 100Km round trip everyday). Its a piece of cake to muck with, and the engine will (hopefully) go forever. Plus the Paekakariki Hill is always begging for me to come over (oh wait - here go those voices again:shutup:). Which the bike does as well.
However going back to my old 600, the 600's are amazing sportsbikes, I really didn't want anymore in a toy. Execpt it really lacked in the 2 departments that I was going to be doing a majority of my riding (until wifey gets her full licence). The SV1000 has no issues whatsoever with the wife on the back, nor will the VTR.
I suppose what I'm trying to say here, is get your priorities in order and decide from there, you never know what you might end up with. You could end up on a Tuono, Monster, Superduke, Gixxer750, Z1000, MT01, blarblarblar...

Good luck.

Agree with this and a 100kms commute a day probably means mostly open road. The Pakakariki Hill road is a joy with the booming twin. However I found the SV very tiring at 50kph as it never seemed to be in the right gear - too much clutch work at low speeds. This was a major reason for me going away from the twin - I like to be able to tootle around city streets in whatever gear I like (within reason).

[RantyDave]

As good as the 675 was after riding one and taking into consideration the big picture it was about as exciting as a hard boiled egg.
This is why you ride them.

Dave

[Renegade]

I've gone from a Gixxer600k5 to a K7 SVthou. As Fatjim mentioned, the soft suspension and the knocking on low rev's, will eventually get the better of you with the Sv, and you'll be wishing you purchased a good example 04/05 Gixxer1000 or CBR1000 instead (as I am now).
However the reason I bought the SV was purely with commuting and 2up riding in mind (as I now have a 100Km round trip everyday). Its a piece of cake to muck with, and the engine will (hopefully) go forever. Plus the Paekakariki Hill is always begging for me to come over (oh wait - here go those voices again:shutup:). Which the bike does as well.
However going back to my old 600, the 600's are amazing sportsbikes, I really didn't want anymore in a toy. Execpt it really lacked in the 2 departments that I was going to be doing a majority of my riding (until wifey gets her full licence). The SV1000 has no issues whatsoever with the wife on the back, nor will the VTR.
I suppose what I'm trying to say here, is get your priorities in order and decide from there, you never know what you might end up with. You could end up on a Tuono, Monster, Superduke, Gixxer750, Z1000, MT01, blarblarblar...

Good luck.

priorities????

buggered if i know what they are, im 28 and still trying to for full child hood dreams of all the toys i couldnt have then :headbang:

[AllanB]

Love my Honda Hornet 919 Heaps of grunt.
- $11k presently brand spankers gives you $1500 left compared to the Twins to play with. Yet another model about to end its run. Don't worry about that aspect of the Hornet, SV1000 or VTR as parts are available for years after and all are very well supported by the aftermarket.
The new water cooled Bandit 1250 is $13500 presently as well.

Grunt try a CB1300.

Found the SV a bit weak in the bottom end - surprised me for a v-twin that did - after 4k rpm lottsa go.

Monster - yum but a lot more $. Dry clutch - yuck - Ducati owners tell you the rattle sound they make is character - it really sounds like a ice-cream container full of loose bolts being shaken.

TEST RIDE, TEST RIDE & TEST RIDE :niceone::niceone::niceone:

[Renegade]

Love my Honda Hornet 919 Heaps of grunt.
- $11k presently brand spankers gives you $1500 left compared to the Twins to play with. Yet another model about to end its run. Don't worry about that aspect of the Hornet, SV1000 or VTR as parts are available for years after and all are very well supported by the aftermarket.
The new water cooled Bandit 1250 is $13500 presently as well.

Grunt try a CB1300.

Found the SV a bit weak in the bottom end - surprised me for a v-twin that did - after 4k rpm lottsa go.

Monster - yum but a lot more $. Dry clutch - yuck - Ducati owners tell you the rattle sound they make is character - it really sounds like a ice-cream container full of loose bolts being shaken.

TEST RIDE, TEST RIDE & TEST RIDE :niceone::niceone::niceone:

yip really liked the look of the hornet but didnt feel the sound with the scorpian pipes it had, not enuf thump ya know, i hear what your saying about the dry sump, i heard one once but couldnt see it, thought it sounded rooted until i saw it was a duc, then t was ok, dont like the look of the bandit or the CB, modern bikes i know just not my style.

[chris norman]

I bought a 2003 VTR after having not ridden for 20 years. I absolutely loved it. Very stable, torquey and oh the sound with micron pipes. I agree that the forks were soft but as a step up or entry into riding again i think it is a great bike. It has raised my confidence and i now feel ready for something a bit more spirited.
A 1098 would be nice:2thumbsup

[manwithav8]

DUCATI DUCATI DUCATI DUCATI.. Oh did I mention trying a ducati monster hahahahah

Let us know how your ride goes mate..What kind of monster are you taking for a spin?

[paturoa]

...However I found the SV very tiring at 50kph as it never seemed to be in the right gear - too much clutch work at low speeds. This was a major reason for me going away from the twin - I like to be able to tootle around city streets in whatever gear I like (within reason).

Thats what I do on mine... tootle around.. in 4th. it is good for about 35 ks thru to about 200ks!

[oldguy]

Ive have had a VTR and now have a Buell love them both,

[Renegade]

DUCATI DUCATI DUCATI DUCATI.. Oh did I mention trying a ducati monster hahahahah

Let us know how your ride goes mate..What kind of monster are you taking for a spin?

duno really, a yellow one :lol: i think it is an 800 monster, but they had two red ones there aswell but they all looked a little ruff round the edges for the asking prices

[Renegade]

had a sit on a xb12r today and it felt really good, i wasnt cramped like i thought id be and it was lighter than i thought too, after a little help on some of my concerns with servicing costs etc right now it is on top of my list. :devil2:

[Winston001]

..........can some tell me what a "red key" is that is advertised with some Ducati's??

From about 2002 Ducati introduced an electronic engine immobiliser which is the Red Key. It is linked to the ignition system but you don't use this key to operate the bike. A chipped black key does the job and if you lose it, you can get another which the Red Key sets.

Never lose the Red Key because it means a new ignition system - although I've seen references to cloning and work-arounds.

[Renegade]

From about 2002 Ducati introduced an electronic engine immobiliser which is the Red Key. It is linked to the ignition system but you don't use this key to operate the bike. A chipped black key does the job and if you lose it, you can get another which the Red Key sets.

Never lose the Red Key because it means a new ignition system - although I've seen references to cloning and work-arounds.

cheers for clearing that up

[NighthawkNZ]

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice, noboby is going rat you because you bought one of them over the other... Take em all for a test ride, look at all options, why do you want it... touring, bit of fun, longer comunting , all the above... test for comfort, ecomony, reliability, servicing and maintenance, style, name, colour (if you worry about that), avalibility of extras and accessories, spare parts do you buy because of a name or not buy for the same reason blah blah blah... (though I don't care about name, but people on hear do for some odd reason... heck I ride a honda)

So test them all test ride a few others not on your list, they may suprise you, what other say are boring you may like, what others say are ugly you may like and vise versa.

Sounds like you are close to a decision with the Buell, which is cool, see if you can take it out for a day and clock a few k on it see what its like after a bit of trip or the weekend. (some allow this some don't) you might not like as much after, or it could put the final dollars across the table to buy it.

[Hellraiser]

Why go with second best .........

Get an RSV1000 not only does it go like a bat out of hell but also is able to stop better than anything i've ever ridden.

If you want a great VTwin look no further than the Italian brands

[HenryDorsetCase]

looking for some input from the masses,

i now have a full licence after procrasternating far two long (almost 2 yrs) and had enough of the hyo 250.

while i havnt totally ruled out the 600's like the GSXR and especially the 675 :love: ive gone off the er6 that i was keen to get.

im looking at something a little cruisier than the a hypo 600 but not a cruiser and the inside word is the vtwin 1000 has about the same power as a 600 anyway.

i checked out the new SV1000 on the side of the road when i was assisting the rider, it had twin bros pipes on it and it sounded soooo sweeeeet.

i checked out the new VTR1000, i really liked the package as an all round bike and the quallity is undisputed but this is the last year they are going to make them.
a mate is lending me his '01' to try out, ive sat on it and it feels light for a big bike which is nice

then there is the buell, looks fat, allways wanted a harley since i was 10yrs old, so i kinda ticks off that box.
however i worry a little about the servicing and the crazy design with oil and fuel in frames etc

oh yeah, i just love that V-Twin sound, but looking for a well built bike, unlike the hyo

so please, your thoughts people

any other bikes you can think of throw them in here but give me some feed back on them and maybe a pic or 2

cheers

I was offered a brand new Moto Guzzi 750 today for 14 grand. Had a similar riding position to my bike (Hornet 900) shaft drive, nicely put together and modern-ish (fuel injection, good electrics etc). I thought that was good value. It also had brembo brakes.

Triumph Scrambler.

[Renegade]

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice, noboby is going rat you because you bought one of them over the other... Take em all for a test ride, look at all options, why do you want it... touring, bit of fun, longer comunting , all the above... test for comfort, ecomony, reliability, servicing and maintenance, style, name, colour (if you worry about that), avalibility of extras and accessories, spare parts do you buy because of a name or not buy for the same reason blah blah blah... (though I don't care about name, but people on hear do for some odd reason... heck I ride a honda)

So test them all test ride a few others not on your list, they may suprise you, what other say are boring you may like, what others say are ugly you may like and vise versa.

Sounds like you are close to a decision with the Buell, which is cool, see if you can take it out for a day and clock a few k on it see what its like after a bit of trip or the weekend. (some allow this some don't) you might not like as much after, or it could put the final dollars across the table to buy it.

major concern is still jumping to such a large bike after having the 250 for almost two years, but a 600 or 750 is guna be just as grunty.

plus i want newish '04+' with km's under 10k

reliability is deifnately a factor,will do plenty of commuting, fun and touring, comfort cos it has to fit me nicely i.e knees tuck in and reach, build quality is way up there for me after owning the hyo, Ocean1 cleared up the servicing concerns i had, name not so important nor are accessarys, got to have "the look' to some degree ive always liked to be different when it comes to my choice of wheels, guess thats why ive owned a few rotaries and a firebird, unfortunately im stuck with a twin turbo rs legacy now and all i want is a ute :doh:

[Renegade]

Why go with second best .........

Get an RSV1000 not only does it go like a bat out of hell but also is able to stop better than anything i've ever ridden.

If you want a great VTwin look no further than the Italian brands

cant afford, far to much bike for me i reckon

[Renegade]

I was offered a brand new Moto Guzzi 750 today for 14 grand. Had a similar riding position to my bike (Hornet 900) shaft drive, nicely put together and modern-ish (fuel injection, good electrics etc). I thought that was good value. It also had brembo brakes.

Triumph Scrambler.

moto guzzi i can do, spent plenty of time on the back of a 850 lemans as a kid and just loved it better than the vfr 750 he had at the same time, mind you he used the 750 as his drag bike at champion dragway before the cunts turned it into a vine yard, oh and he blew it up.

triump scrambler, cool just to skinny in the seat

[toebug]

Both bikes would look good in MY garage.

Just dont get anything with nana knickers on it, fairings are for girls!

[Ocean1]

major concern is still jumping to such a large bike after having the 250 for almost two years, but a 600 or 750 is guna be just as grunty.

plus i want newish '04+' with km's under 10k

reliability is deifnately a factor,will do plenty of commuting, fun and touring,

Be aware that many big V twins don't like town speeds. They're not smooth at either low revs or low loads. That does apply to my XB12, although they work better around town without the race kit, and on the other hand chain snatch isn't an issue.

[NighthawkNZ]

Be aware that many big V twins don't like town speeds. They're not smooth at either low revs or low loads. That does apply to my XB12, although they work better around town without the race kit, and on the other hand chain snatch isn't an issue.

the VTR isn't the best around town either, the other thing I find with the VTR is the 1st & 2nd gear is very clunky... she doesn't like going below 2500 rpm. However on the open highway different story... cruises and purs along at 120 fully loaded at 4000rpm, and you can hear the that big Vtwin just ticking over, then you open the throttle and... oh thats another thread

[Renegade]

Be aware that many big V twins don't like town speeds. They're not smooth at either low revs or low loads. That does apply to my XB12, although they work better around town without the race kit, and on the other hand chain snatch isn't an issue.

currently its town commuting daily, as of next year it will be a 180km commute once a week and maybe a couple of short runs during the weekso not to worried, should be able to cope with any town stuff.

i have heard that about the buell race kits but can you have the sound without the other fruit?? in fact what is in the race kit, Ocean1?? i thought maybe the ecu, pipe and airbox??

an xb9r maybe a consideration, just a few less cubes

what exactly is this chain snatch i hear about?, ive propably felt it just havnt got a label for it.

thats the thing with bikes, cars, guns and girls, ya cant have one that will do every job perfectly, you just have to have many, or find a compromise.

with any bike there will always be something wether its to wristy or to crampt or dosent like low revs around town or or or the list goes on and on.

[Kelem]

My monster is not the best around town, keeping it in good tune and changing the sprockets to suite make things much nicer, but its not a commuter so.. in saying that its alot of fun to ride, there are alot on the market now and the prices seem to reflect that more than when i was looking - ain't that always the way.

[Sanx]

The stock suspension on the VTR is crap. Basically, it's undersprung, overdamped and subject to compression lock under hard braking, which can make for pant-changing moments.
However, call up the inimitable Robert Taylor, get him to recommend someone near you and get a re-valve and re-spring done. Cost me about $800, and the difference was amazing. Not only did it actually work (better) on the track, but around town it was more comfortable and compliant. The other killer mod, in my opinion, is going down a tooth on the front sprocket. Makes town speeds a bit easier, improves acceleration and you might find, accidentally of course, that if you just happen to hold the bike at 3500rpm and snatch open the throttle in first, the front wheel lifts off the ground. As if by magic... !

[Ocean1]

i have heard that about the buell race kits but can you have the sound without the other fruit?? in fact what is in the race kit, Ocean1?? i thought maybe the ecu, pipe and airbox??

an xb9r maybe a consideration, just a few less cubes

Most of the things you can do to wring a few more HP from mid-revs up tends to make things rough and lumpy off-idle. Yes, Buell's race kit is pipe, ecu and minor intake mod, adds 10hp. I'ts not that bad around town, in fact the biggest issue isn't the engine, it's the weight on my wrists, and even that's ok for 20min.

An XB9 ain't a bad idea, same bike but the engine's got a few more revs and a tad less torque. You'd pay a grand or two less also.


what exactly is this chain snatch i hear about?

There's a particular speed/gear/throttle combination where a harmonic occurs in the drivetrain, the effect is that the whole bike jerks back/fwd. It's far more pronounced in twins, (although strangely not often in singles), and for some bikes it tends to happen at close to suburban speeds. Changing down a gear will fix it, so will gently rolling on and off the throttle.


you might find, accidentally of course, that if you just happen to hold the bike at 3500rpm and snatch open the throttle in first, the front wheel lifts off the ground. As if by magic... !

Not recomended on a Buell mate, not unless you have very very good reactions. :laugh:

[Renegade]

ahh yes chain snatch,i have felt this, and i dont like it much, here i was thinkn the dam korean thing is about to snap.

dont see to many of the xb9r about though, mostly 12's.

im taking out a vtr 1000 this week so im looking forward to seeing how i like it, they are just so well priced.

[g-dawg]

I own a 2004 SV1000s. I bought it for 8k and love it. Even power, great looks and handling.

The VTR1000 is end of line this year and hasn't changed at all in since the 90's. Great sound but!

My advise is jump on trademe and buy an SV1000s:banana:

[dwnundabkr]

Be aware that many big V twins don't like town speeds. They're not smooth at either low revs or low loads. That does apply to my XB12, although they work better around town without the race kit, and on the other hand chain snatch isn't an issue.


that goes for the nine as well ,did not notice much difference between stock and race in traffic that is
bike is not smooth at all in traffic but i ride like a nana when it comes to auckland peak hour traffic

[Renegade]

well i rode an "01" vtr1000 tonight and didnt like it much at all.

power was good, that front wheel gave me the shits when it came up a few times, so much power was a crazy feeling.

gearbox was clunky, much worse than the hyo, probly cos it was tranferring more power i suspect.

lighter than i thought, easy weighted bike to control.

But the worst thing was the steering, as i lent it through the corners it felt like it was really twitchy, and the handle bars wanted to turn into the turn and pulsed a bit in my hand, made it quite hard work to apply counter steer, is this normal??? my hyo just flows through those same corners counter steering so much nicer.

at slower speeds the steering felt bad, really twitchy and felt like it wanted to do its own thing, although i dont have much to compare it to, only ridden 5 bikes all up, this is the first time i have felt this phenomina.

i thought maybe tyres, but it has pirella diablos, is it the weight of the bike? or is this what steering dampners are there to fix? anyone shed any light???

il talk to my mate when i take his bike back and ask him about it and what he thought of the hyo steering compared to his vtr, see what he reckons, im so disappointed with, i expected better things.

[Big Dave]

The Buell corners, brakes and steers better than the other 2.
Evidenced by how much easier to stunt. The mass centralisation really works.

The japs are 30%? cheaper new and have better ergos for someone over 6'.
They are also faster it terms of acceleration and terminal velocity. But the Vee of the Buell produces better low down 'street' torque - but then - it has shorter legs.

The Buell is as close to maintenance free as a modern bike can be - longer service intervals, belt drive, self adjusting valves, no bright finish parts. The parts and servicing costs are also regarded as industry best. Last I heard a blinker unit was under $10.
Parts availability on the Buells isn't brilliant. Can't comment on the others.

I prefer the Buell because the 'sweet spot' is somewhere around the speed limit. You're past it with the other two.

The Japs have a reputation for lasting longer.

'Funability' is a new concept I'm introducing to my equations for '08. That's the Buell too. It also wins the 'feelgood'.
It also has more rough edges - it shakes and vibrates more than some folks can deal with.

Common sense practicality - The Japs.
Silly Fun - See Patrick at AMPS for a test ride.

[vifferman]

well i rode an "01" vtr1000 tonight and didnt like it much at all.

power was good, that front wheel gave me the shits when it came up a few times, so much power was a crazy feeling.

gearbox was clunky, much worse than the hyo, probly cos it was tranferring more power i suspect.
The gearboxes aren't that great, but are OK (till the mileage gets high) except if the chain isn't properly lubed and adjusted.



But the worst thing was the steering, as i lent it through the corners it felt like it was really twitchy, and the handle bars wanted to turn into the turn and pulsed a bit in my hand, made it quite hard work to apply counter steer, is this normal??? my hyo just flows through those same corners counter steering so much nicer.

at slower speeds the steering felt bad, really twitchy and felt like it wanted to do its own thing, although i dont have much to compare it to, only ridden 5 bikes all up, this is the first time i have felt this phenomina.
Assuming the headbearings weren't ferkt, I'd be willing to bet the front tyre was underinflated, as what you've described is Eggs Zachary what happens when the tyre pressure is too low.

[Renegade]

The Buell corners, brakes and steers better than the other 2.
Evidenced by how much easier to stunt. The mass centralisation really works.

The japs are 30%? cheaper new and have better ergos for someone over 6'.
They are also faster it terms of acceleration and terminal velocity. But the Vee of the Buell produces better low down 'street' torque - but then - it has shorter legs.

The Buell is as close to maintenance free as a modern bike can be - longer service intervals, belt drive, self adjusting valves, no bright finish parts. The parts and servicing costs are also regarded as industry best. Last I heard a blinker unit was under $10.
Parts availability on the Buells isn't brilliant. Can't comment on the others.

I prefer the Buell because the 'sweet spot' is somewhere around the speed limit. You're past it with the other two.

The Japs have a reputation for lasting longer.

'Funability' is a new concept I'm introducing to my equations for '08. That's the Buell too. It also wins the 'feelgood'.
It also has more rough edges - it shakes and vibrates more than some folks can deal with.

Common sense practicality - The Japs.
Silly Fun - See Patrick at AMPS for a test ride.

if it was common sense i was after i would just buy a sv650, but i just cant bring myself to do it to myself, and with the servicing of the buell it just seems better.

[Renegade]

The gearboxes aren't that great, but are OK (till the mileage gets high) except if the chain isn't properly lubed and adjusted.


Assuming the headbearings weren't ferkt, I'd be willing to bet the front tyre was underinflated, as what you've described is Eggs Zachary what happens when the tyre pressure is too low.

yeah miles are high on the bike.

i told my mate about it and hes guna have it all checked out asap, still didnt like it much but will definately take a newer one out.

[Big Dave]

I just reread my thoughts there - I'd probably change the servicing cost statement about industry best - to amongst industry best - mines coming up to it's 32,000 service.
Be interesting to see if that remains as good as has been.

[Renegade]

I just reread my thoughts there - I'd probably change the servicing cost statement about industry best - to amongst industry best - mines coming up to it's 32,000 service.
Be interesting to see if that remains as good as has been.

isnt that about belt replacement time?? let me know how it goes cost wise id be interested

[flossiejayno]

Looked at the VTR 1000 about 4 years ago. Soft suspension, poor tank range etc etc.

Have a look at the new KTM RC8 http://www.ktm-rc8.net/. Checkout the video

Made to fit standard sized riders also.

[Grubs]

Ktm's, nice very nice bikes, my bro's raced motox and bears with theirs and My best mate is racing a Motard. I've always had Jap bikes, suzuki Rg, Honda cbr, then a suzuki gsx, all nice and well balanced, well kept me on the road at least.

I have just bought a 2000 Ducati m900 monster. Ive had more fun on my monster in the short time I've owned than I can remember on my jappers. Its nimble, extremely good brakes and excelleration faster and more controllerable. I will admit not the best town bike, in 1st and 2nd gears have heavy engine breaking and spirited throttle. But like the buell in street fighter styling it rocks.

[Renegade]

Ktm's, nice very nice bikes, my bro's raced motox and bears with theirs and My best mate is racing a Motard. I've always had Jap bikes, suzuki Rg, Honda cbr, then a suzuki gsx, all nice and well balanced, well kept me on the road at least.

I have just bought a 2000 Ducati m900 monster. Ive had more fun on my monster in the short time I've owned than I can remember on my jappers. Its nimble, extremely good brakes and excelleration faster and more controllerable. I will admit not the best town bike, in 1st and 2nd gears have heavy engine breaking and spirited throttle. But like the buell in street fighter styling it rocks.

havnet entirely ruled out a monster

[Fatjim]

Looked at the VTR 1000 about 4 years ago. Soft suspension, poor tank range etc etc.



Lets get this straight. The VTR (03) and the SV1000(07) I have have similar tank ranges. If you go by the warning light first coming on.

However, when new the VTR was getting between 240k and 250k before the RLOD (Red light of Doom). The SV when new gets around 210k before the YLOD starts flashing. Having said that, my riding style has changed over the last 4 years.

[Big Dave]

isnt that about belt replacement time?? let me know how it goes cost wise id be interested

Belts are non-serviceable and no replacement period is specified.

[Ocean1]

Lets get this straight. The VTR (03) and the SV1000(07) I have have similar tank ranges. If you go by the warning light first coming on.

However, when new the VTR was getting between 240k and 250k before the RLOD (Red light of Doom). The SV when new gets around 210k before the YLOD starts flashing. Having said that, my riding style has changed over the last 4 years.

While we're making comparisons, on 14 Litres the XB12 goes maybe 210 before the light's up. I've had it as low as 190k after a lot of tight on/off riding, and never more than 220k. I've run 40k with the light on, but that was quietly, and I wouldn't want to count on it too often.

I really can't see range as an issue in NZ, (unless you've had a wee blonde moment), you invariably pass a bunch of gas stations in the last half of the tank.

[Ocean1]

Belts are non-serviceable and no replacement period is specified.

On the '06 - '07 Buells.

Earlier ones had a slightly different belt and pulleys, still good for way more than a chain/sprockets though.

[Renegade]

On the '06 - '07 Buells.

Earlier ones had a slightly different belt and pulleys, still good for way more than a chain/sprockets though.

yeah that service thing you sent me im sure that said 40km was belt replacement time

[Ocean1]

yeah that service thing you sent me im sure that said 40km was belt replacement time

Funny thing about belts, they're difficult to predict service intervals for. I notice it with industrial synchronous belts, you can replace one years old and have it last only months.

Like today. I shredded the one on the Bluell. It was severely provoked to be sure, but there you go, snapped like a Xmas cracker.

I’m pretty sure I know why. A month ago, leaving the Featherston pub, (having traversed several kilometres of road works before the hill with the usual overkill layer of gravel atop), Shadows noticed a wee lump on the belt, above the rear pulley. Sure enough there was a sharp stone under it, came out soon enough but I suspect it damaged the belt.

Belts on Buells have been reported to last huge distances, and not very huge. If I hadn’t shot my mouth off about the low maintenance schedule, (and maybe not fanned the clutch in second at 4000rpm to keep the front wheel up) Karma would perhaps have turned a blind eye. As it happens I’ll soon be able to report what a new belt costs…

[Renegade]

Funny thing about belts, they're difficult to predict service intervals for. I notice it with industrial synchronous belts, you can replace one years old and have it last only months.

Like today. I shredded the one on the Bluell. It was severely provoked to be sure, but there you go, snapped like a Xmas cracker.

I’m pretty sure I know why. A month ago, leaving the Featherston pub, (having traversed several kilometres of road works before the hill with the usual overkill layer of gravel atop), Shadows noticed a wee lump on the belt, above the rear pulley. Sure enough there was a sharp stone under it, came out soon enough but I suspect it damaged the belt.

Belts on Buells have been reported to last huge distances, and not very huge. If I hadn’t shot my mouth off about the low maintenance schedule, (and maybe not fanned the clutch in second at 4000rpm to keep the front wheel up) Karma would perhaps have turned a blind eye. As it happens I’ll soon be able to report what a new belt costs…

so a long walk home was it? look forward to hearing the price

[Disco Dan]

VTR's snap in half too easy.

30kph t bone and "snap" goes the headstock and its shopping time.

SV's.. now we're talking...

[Grubs]

I guess it's all about how good a rider you are, to t-bone at 30km's hmmmm, I know two people that have an excellent run out of their VTR's which has been the reason they kept updating to newer models.

Not downgrading sv's, two members in the bike club I'm in have had sv's and one only changed because of accident, but loves his new triumph more.

[NighthawkNZ]

I guess it's all about how good a rider you are, to t-bone at 30km's hmmmm, I know two people that have an excellent run out of their VTR's which has been the reason they kept updating to newer models.



Had no problem with my VTR, what so ever... spent to much on extras and mods now to warrant selling it... and still get a smile from it... and it will gives you a run for... oh never mind... it is the rider in most cases not nessarily the just having the fastest bike andyway how the hell do you t-bone at 30kph... that is some skill to do that... or no skill one of the two...

As for fuel range I get 250km when nursing or as low as 200km when Im ummmm not nursing her... Also depends on weather or head wind as well, can make a difference on fuel

[avgas]

buy the honda if your a honda fan, its that simple, its not a bad bike....its just a honda. Prob never fail and give you amps of enjoyment. I'm not a honda fan so i think its ugly, sounds bad and has no power ha.
Me, i would get the XB. The concept is simple to me - old motor, new body - think of a supermodel that cooks the dishes mum used too. The classic sound, with best handling, best centre mass point, reliable design and looks like a rusty axe with blood stains.
The SV is like a Mazda 6, looks good, decent take off, its practical.......but you feel like you need something more.

[Ocean1]

so a long walk home was it? look forward to hearing the price

A phone call to have my van driven out to collect it, a 10 min wait. Lucky.

[ZReX12]

VTR, SVor XB? Gee the answer has to be a 990 KTM. Superduke or adventure, either will be better...:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Grubs]

As I said earlier, nothing wrong ktm's. But they did have to be passed by bmw's for toughness for that trip Ewan M'gregor did. I'm still all thumbs up for my Monster. only complaints about buell's Ive had has been about vibrations and things falling of them, re friends lightning.....

[flossiejayno]

nothing wrong ktm's. But they did have to be passed by bmw's for toughness for that trip Ewan M'gregor did

But remember Ewan & Charlie had a backup crew and plenty of parts and of course money from BMW. Sub frames ring a bell. Didn't the camera man kick their arse with an old shitter of a bike! Does that mean the old shitter is the best bike because it bet all of BMW's money, crew and bikes etc.

Personally I would not evaluate a bike on their trip only. Plenty of quys around the world have done tougher trips on not so new bikes, no crews and with alot less money.

Out of the VTR/SV KTM's definitely win, I believe KTM have now or are going to release this a SM 990. Could be a very interesting look. Personally I'm just not a Buell fan, top heavy etc. Can't really comment as never really looked into them enough.

[Big Dave]

I'm just not a Buell fan, top heavy etc. Can't really comment as never really looked into them enough.


The Buell XB range of motorcycles utilises a patented system of mass centralisation measures that make them amongst the least 'top heavy' bikes available.
Many media outlets rate them the best cornering bike on the market.

[ZReX12]

As I said earlier, nothing wrong ktm's. But they did have to be passed by bmw's for toughness for that trip Ewan M'gregor did. I'm still all thumbs up for my Monster. only complaints about buell's Ive had has been about vibrations and things falling of them, re friends lightning.....

Suppose if your buying a bike to emulate a couple of poms then the discussion probably wouldn't be SV vs VTR vs XB with a KTM tossed in good measure. And even if you were would you really go for the hefalump of motorcycles?

KTM 990 Adventure, why?
Shit loads of fun on the road, around motorcross tracks, four wheel drive roads, beaches and just as happy showing "sports" bikes its mufflers around a race track.
Now if your wanting cheap servicing....perhaps the SV or VTR is your baby:laugh:
If your after something thats a bit different, that quite literally can handle damn near anything (assuming you can hang on to the bloody thing) then the KTM's for you, oh and they do wicked wheel stands (just add throttle)

[avgas]

The Buell XB range of motorcycles utilises a patented system of mass centralisation measures that make them amongst the least 'top heavy' bikes available.
Many media outlets rate them the best cornering bike on the market.
Seconded, thing bmw ride with 1/4 the "top weight" of a normal bike.
Leans so low that your balls bounce first.

[VTRRR]

Lets get this straight. The VTR (03) and the SV1000(07) I have have similar tank ranges. If you go by the warning light first coming on.

However, when new the VTR was getting between 240k and 250k before the RLOD (Red light of Doom). The SV when new gets around 210k before the YLOD starts flashing. Having said that, my riding style has changed over the last 4 years.

i have a 07 vtr1000, has 19 ltr tank. the light is on about 200km, dwhen i fill it up its only 13 ltr. dona about 270km on a tank (18lt to fill). the light is not that accurate as the book says that it has about 3.6lt left after the light starts (if i read it correct that is).

[VTRRR]

usually i was only putting 11-13lt in as thats as far as my dads 07 vt750 shadow will get (about 200km).

[Renegade]

any news from Ocean1 on the cost of the replacement belt for the buell???

[Fatjim]

I hear they're quite cheap if you pick one up fro one of the local trailer parks.


Go Cletus!

[Ocean1]

any news from Ocean1 on the cost of the replacement belt for the buell???

$260 odd at Wgtn MCC.

Not that cheap, but I didn't have time to shop around.

If one of the engineering supplies places can source one to the same spec' it'd be way cheaper.

[007XY]

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice, noboby is going rat you because you bought one of them over the other... Take em all for a test ride, look at all options, why do you want it... touring, bit of fun, longer comunting , all the above... test for comfort, ecomony, reliability, servicing and maintenance, style, name, colour (if you worry about that), avalibility of extras and accessories, spare parts do you buy because of a name or not buy for the same reason blah blah blah... (though I don't care about name, but people on hear do for some odd reason... heck I ride a honda)

So test them all test ride a few others not on your list, they may suprise you, what other say are boring you may like, what others say are ugly you may like and vise versa.

Sounds like you are close to a decision with the Buell, which is cool, see if you can take it out for a day and clock a few k on it see what its like after a bit of trip or the weekend. (some allow this some don't) you might not like as much after, or it could put the final dollars across the table to buy it.

I agree totally.. you can go round and round on different peoples opinions but at the end of the day thats all they are.. test rides man.. have fun.. discover!! :woohoo: a bike is more than just a ride.. it's gotta make you buzz:Punk:

[sinned]

All the opinions collected and analyzed mean little if you are vertically challenged, especially in the inner leg measurement. If you can't place feet firmly on the ground and/or don't have the agility or strength to manage a tall bike your options, for general road use, are limited. They all perform better than the capability of most riders, so buy the bike that fits you and you like most.

[Renegade]

i was more interested in peoples experiences, to hear the pros and cons from owners, or people who have stories about these bikes, i have learnt so much, mainly about issues from models and which year of bikes to stay away from due to these issues.

the info has been invaluable from a potential buyers point of veiw, and will contibute to my over all purchase, and at this stage the buell will remain the top of the list.

i will endeavor to test ride next week with any luck.

[007XY]

I've had my SV1000S for about 1 1/2 years and I'm really enjoing it, I've had a few different bikes over the years, TL1000s, 955i speed triple, 955i daytona to name a couple.. I've also test ridden alot of bikes, I think what makes the SV fun for me is that it's not top dog and not pretending to be, so I don't expect too much from it... I just ride it and am regularly suprised by its abilities. The purchase cost made good sense to me cause I like to tinker and that left me $$ to play with, I've modded the pipes, added a power commander, done a TRE mod, changed the handle bars for tapered alloy dirt bike bars, K&N air filter, removed the air filter intake snorkel, you could say customised to my requirements.. The next item on my list is to look at suspension, I've made adjustments and it's much better than standard but in doing some research I've found with a couple of internal mods they can be quite good? I've done a few track days on it and always feel I've got to ride at my best cause I''m not riding the latest greatest sports bike with all the good gear.. which just adds to the fun.. and of course the sound!! loved the TL motor and just had to have more.