YSS suspension brand?

[tri boy]

I'm not in the market anymore for shocks/forks etc, as RT has sorted my bikes, but another brand is starting to emerge out of Thailand called YSS.
The Aussies have started to distribute them, and some decent feed back is burbling to the top.

www.yss-suspension.com

OK, what you pay is what you get, and after sales service in NZ is probably nil, but some decent Oz talent has put a fair bit of input into the specs, and if QC is maintained, maybe they might be OK.:confused:

[cowpoos]

see what happens with them in racing circles...even if they are a high spec unit...well engineered etc...don't mean the perform the correct function...

[Cajun]

looks like they only really do models for older style of bikes.

i see there is one there for vfr400 which might please some peopel

[Shaun]

see what happens with them in racing circles...even if they are a high spec unit...well engineered etc...don't mean the perform the correct function...



Guess that must be why you had to have your unit revalved to work for you then eh, not like those bloody things that Stroud won a heap of nz Super bike titles on eh, un touched out of the box apart from spring.

But the real value of O, is the fact that we have Robert here to mod them to suit the NZ enviroment, be it road or track

[cowpoos]

Guess that must be why you had to have your unit revalved to work for you then eh, not like those bloody things that Stroud won a heap of nz Super bike titles on eh, un touched out of the box apart from spring.

But the real value of O, is the fact that we have Robert here to mod them to suit the NZ enviroment, be it road or track
I had my unit re-valved via robert taylor...[the same guy thats been changing the valving in shirriffs,sam smiths,strouds,mair,and many many more rider's shocks in the past few months to get their bikes handling to there best] because it was blowing through its stroke to fast under power...is that not the correct thing to do?? I'm actually not even sure what your getting at?? andrew had some great sucess with white power equipment and is now using ohlins..which is what I have [ohlins]..and valving should be altered for rider weight/bike setup/bike output.

What I was getting at in reguard to my post...was in the grand scheme of things theres only a handful of suspension companies competing in premier racing level worldwide...and then theres a few specilist companys [maxton,k-tech,traxxion dynamics,race-tech] who also supply components to national [and most definatly international] racers and road riders ,whom are very well known and trusted and who's products are used by professional suspension tuners...my point was...they are new...and relitivly unknown...they maybe the next big thing...BUT...who's using their gear in racing at national level in any country??? at the moment..and they may be well engineered..but so are alot of things..it doesn't mean that they work as well as they are made..I never implied anything else.

[tri boy]

I'm pretty sure they are a long way off from being a true international title winner, but it's pretty cool to see guys like Robbie Phillis campaigning a post classic on them, and it looks like a McIntosh Suzuki getting pushed along in one of their photo's.
It seems they are trying to position themselves above company's like Hagon, and a bit below WP and Ohlins.
Either way, I guess they will find a market with road riders, classics, dirt/trail guys.
Henry Essen, (owner of Dutch Firm "Technoflex") is involved, I understand he's not too shabby at designing gas struts.:whistle:

[HenryDorsetCase]

looks like they only really do models for older style of bikes.

i see there is one there for vfr400 which might please some peopel


Robert Taylor built me a shock for a VFR400 about a month ago...

[Shaun]

Stroud won a heap of nz Super bike titles on eh, un touched out of the box apart from spring.


:Police:

But the real value of O, is the fact that we have Robert here to mod them to suit the NZ enviroment, be it road or track

I was in no way saying anything negative about any one or any product

I had my unit re-valved via robert taylor...[the same guy thats been changing the valving in shirriffs,sam smiths,strouds,mair,and many many more rider's shocks in the past few months to get their bikes handling to there best] because it was blowing through its stroke to fast under power


Just read what I said mate, then you may understand:doh:

[Robert Taylor]

I'm pretty sure they are a long way off from being a true international title winner, but it's pretty cool to see guys like Robbie Phillis campaigning a post classic on them, and it looks like a McIntosh Suzuki getting pushed along in one of their photo's.
It seems they are trying to position themselves above company's like Hagon, and a bit below WP and Ohlins.
Either way, I guess they will find a market with road riders, classics, dirt/trail guys.
Henry Essen, (owner of Dutch Firm "Technoflex") is involved, I understand he's not too shabby at designing gas struts.:whistle:

Robbie Phillis first choice was Ohlins but he wanted the Aussie distributor to virtually give them to him, so the door was politely closed.

Cannot answer directly about YSS but I wouldnt be surprised if many of the components are oh so close to Ohlins twin shock design, copied profusely over the years in both hemispheres.

A number of Thai companies have been committing copyright infringement and Ohlins have a full time staff member engaged in dealing with this insidious activity. 7% of the worlds economy is piracy, most of it coming out of the east.

Years ago WP ripped off the 1st generation Ohlins PDS design resulting in a court case that Ohlins comprehensively won.

Its easy to copy someone elses hard work and development that they incurred considerable cost in doing....

[tri boy]

You might have a valid point Robert with regards to copy infringements with many companies.:yes:
But I would think H Essen wouldn't need to lower himself to such standards. After all, isn't he considered to be one of the main developers of High/Low compression dampner systems?
Thanks for the info on R Phillis. Once a racer, always a racer aye. (trying to get equipment/services for free:laugh:).

[Robert Taylor]

You might have a valid point Robert with regards to copy infringements with many companies.:yes:
But I would think H Essen wouldn't need to lower himself to such standards. After all, isn't he considered to be one of the main developers of High/Low compression dampner systems?
Thanks for the info on R Phillis. Once a racer, always a racer aye. (trying to get equipment/services for free:laugh:).

Note that independent hi / lo speed comp adjustment is falling out of favour.

[Mental Trousers]

How does seperate hi/lo speed damping work?? I know the low speed is adjusted via the needle inside the shaft like everything else, but does the high speed damping adjuster work on the shim stack or something??

[Robert Taylor]

How does seperate hi/lo speed damping work?? I know the low speed is adjusted via the needle inside the shaft like everything else, but does the high speed damping adjuster work on the shim stack or something??

Several ways of skinning the cat, when I have time I will explain. Dont hold your breath waiting...

[Mental Trousers]

Heh, sweet as :rockon:

[Robert Taylor]

Guess that must be why you had to have your unit revalved to work for you then eh, not like those bloody things that Stroud won a heap of nz Super bike titles on eh, un touched out of the box apart from spring.

But the real value of O, is the fact that we have Robert here to mod them to suit the NZ enviroment, be it road or track

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider. When Stroudy met his match last season ( Bugden ) his equipment was found to be a little wanting. ( Dont forget Tony Rees title in 05, however the ''allocation'' of it is viewed Tony was his match )For this season Stroudy has lifted his game and I wish him and all the other equipped riders who have chosen a product with backup the very best.

[Shaun]

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider. When Stroudy met his match last season ( Bugden ) his equipment was found to be a little wanting. ( Dont forget Tony Rees title in 05, however the ''allocation'' of it is viewed Tony was his match )For this season Stroudy has lifted his game and I wish him and all the other equipped riders who have chosen a product with backup the very best.



Dam, and that only took 3 days, you must be bloody busy mate, 05 O that's write, the courts decided that Tony won. So Suzuki asked Andrew to change brands, or did Andrew ask, but as you say Rob, best of British to them all

[Taz]

Robbie Phillis first choice was Ohlins but he wanted the Aussie distributor to virtually give them to him, so the door was politely closed.

Cannot answer directly about YSS but I wouldnt be surprised if many of the components are oh so close to Ohlins twin shock design, copied profusely over the years in both hemispheres.

A number of Thai companies have been committing copyright infringement and Ohlins have a full time staff member engaged in dealing with this insidious activity. 7% of the worlds economy is piracy, most of it coming out of the east.

Years ago WP ripped off the 1st generation Ohlins PDS design resulting in a court case that Ohlins comprehensively won.

Its easy to copy someone elses hard work and development that they incurred considerable cost in doing....

So what you're saying is that they'd be as good as ohlins at 1/3 the price? Cool.

[Shaun]

Robbie Phillis first choice was Ohlins but he wanted the Aussie distributor to virtually give them to him, so the door was politely closed.

Cannot answer directly about YSS but I wouldnt be surprised if many of the components are oh so close to Ohlins twin shock design, copied profusely over the years in both hemispheres.

A number of Thai companies have been committing copyright infringement and Ohlins have a full time staff member engaged in dealing with this insidious activity. 7% of the worlds economy is piracy, most of it coming out of the east.

Years ago WP ripped off the 1st generation Ohlins PDS design resulting in a court case that Ohlins comprehensively won.

Its easy to copy someone elses hard work and development that they incurred considerable cost in doing....



So the thai companies commiting copyright infringement, were doing shit like making shocks lock like there own brand, when they really were another brand, or some thing along those lines was it, incredible really eh Rob

[Sensei]

:first::headbang:

[Shaun]

So what you're saying is that they'd be as good as ohlins at 1/3 the price? Cool.





Possibly, but unless you bought it from the NZ importer, who would you get to service it ever, na stick to the O, with Rob and his knoledge of them. I am not to sure on the fact to this, but Rob will know, I personally do not think that thre is ONE fast racer in the NZ race scene using a standard out of the box customer purchased ohlin's shock, Rob modifies the hell out of them compared to as they come new from the factory in the box, ( Lucky he is so dedicated and has learned so much of his shock Dyno that cost a fortune ) as our track conditions are so different than any where else in the world, the standard Ohlin's Shock is not good enough to be raced on here at a very fast winning pace ( If I am wrong again, please correct me) But as I said above, we do all have Rob here to modify the Ohlin's for us anyway, so it will work perfectly






Nah, what he really is saying, is that Robbie never did a thing for Ohlin's, so why should they help him, hahaha----

[Shaun]

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider.


You are probally write about that Robert, as Ray Clee the White Power importer is extremelly good at riding as well! and uses them himself to fantastic results:Playnice:

[Robert Taylor]

So what you're saying is that they'd be as good as ohlins at 1/3 the price? Cool.

You can be blissfully ignorant with your own comfort zone of interpretation, yes.

[Robert Taylor]

You know as well as I do that this had most to do with the rider.


You are probally write about that Robert, as Ray Clee the White Power importer is extremelly good at riding as well! and uses them himself to fantastic results:Playnice:

Granted, Ray is a great guy and a great rider. Also WP have a number of good products and also some downright average ones on much of the oem KTM stuff. Backup is just as important though, as in the end event the product is a tool to be worked with. You know that having won several NZ titles using Ohlins equipment. Also that here in NZ it is perhaps a little akin to being in Siberia and we have to act quickly and develop our own solutions. And that hasnt always been so easy!

[Robert Taylor]

Possibly, but unless you bought it from the NZ importer, who would you get to service it ever, na stick to the O, with Rob and his knoledge of them. I am not to sure on the fact to this, but Rob will know, I personally do not think that thre is ONE fast racer in the NZ race scene using a standard out of the box customer purchased ohlin's shock, Rob modifies the hell out of them compared to as they come new from the factory in the box, ( Lucky he is so dedicated and has learned so much of his shock Dyno that cost a fortune ) as our track conditions are so different than any where else in the world, the standard Ohlin's Shock is not good enough to be raced on here at a very fast winning pace ( If I am wrong again, please correct me) But as I said above, we do all have Rob here to modify the Ohlin's for us anyway, so it will work perfectly


Seato used a box stock TTX36 at the Manfield nationals on his R1 to win Superbike leg 1 and smashed a long standing lap record. You used a box stock 46PRXLS at Ruapuna in the rain several seasons ago and comprehensively annihilated everyone. Yes, we do optimise internal settings constantly but there are 2 ''stock'' examples I can recite off the top of my head.

There are no perfect settings, ever. You will concur with that.

[Robert Taylor]

Possibly, but unless you bought it from the NZ importer, who would you get to service it ever, na stick to the O, with Rob and his knoledge of them. I am not to sure on the fact to this, but Rob will know, I personally do not think that thre is ONE fast racer in the NZ race scene using a standard out of the box customer purchased ohlin's shock, Rob modifies the hell out of them compared to as they come new from the factory in the box, ( Lucky he is so dedicated and has learned so much of his shock Dyno that cost a fortune ) as our track conditions are so different than any where else in the world, the standard Ohlin's Shock is not good enough to be raced on here at a very fast winning pace ( If I am wrong again, please correct me) But as I said above, we do all have Rob here to modify the Ohlin's for us anyway, so it will work perfectly






Nah, what he really is saying, is that Robbie never did a thing for Ohlin's, so why should they help him, hahaha----


If you are referring to Robbie Bugden he was given a choice from SNZ of what suspension components he wanted to run. He chose Ohlins, received comprehensive backup and repaid that by taking the title.

Ill get vilified by saying this... if I was able to play God and state who I wanted to win the title...

An Aussie using Ohlins or a Kiwi using WP? Its a no brainer to me.

[dickytoo]

If you are referring to Robbie Bugden he was given a choice from SNZ of what suspension components he wanted to run. He chose Ohlins, received comprehensive backup and repaid that by taking the title.





i think he was talking about robbie phillis

[Robert Taylor]

i think he was talking about robbie phillis

My too hastened mistake, Robbie P didnt exercise the Ohlins option because he thought ( mistakenly ) that they should be given to him.

[Shaun]

You can be blissfully ignorant with your own comfort zone of interpretation, yes.


Or be the Rep of an alternative brand in a very small market place, they work well enough for Robbie to win on, so what is there problem please??

Sorry Rob, but Ohlin's is good, but the NOT the only Good product out there, there are cheaper just as good alternatives availlable, and you and I both know it:doh:

( PS, You did not awnser my question about people building shocks to look like what they are not, ie, copyrite issues and court offenses like the Thai people that YOU mention all the time )

And others that can service them as well, you are very very Good, but not the only man in this country who can re build a shock with Quality in mind, which is a very strong point to you, and thanks and congrats on you for that.



If you are referring to Robbie Bugden he was given a choice from SNZ of what suspension components he wanted to run. He chose Ohlins, received comprehensive backup and repaid that by taking the title.

NO, the question was in reference to Andrew Stroud, but you are very busy I know!



Seato used a box stock TTX36 at the Manfield nationals on his R1 to win Superbike leg 1 and smashed a long standing lap record.

Exellent, and congradulations Ohlin's


You used a box stock 46PRXLS at Ruapuna in the rain several seasons ago and comprehensively annihilated everyone.

Maybe you have lost my shock settings notes after all these years mate, but I remember that we added 2x comp shims, and reduced the bleed jet as well as changed the Linkages to make the shock firmer in the first part of the stroke to stop it squatting like a school girl

There was also some different pistons that you had machined up in Hawera as a copy of others that you had, but I guess you may have lost those notes as well eh ( O copyrite pops up again)

Yes, we do optimise internal settings constantly but there are 2 ''stock'' examples I can recite off the top of my head.

Optimise, or make work to the value all believe they are and should be?



Granted, Ray is a great guy and a great rider. Also WP have a number of good products and also some downright average ones on much of the oem KTM stuff. Backup is just as important though, as in the end event the product is a tool to be worked with.

Yes, but Andrew and Ray never needed to get any one to pull them apart to make them work here, ( after buying the product Ray included,) and again, there are others that are fully qualified to re build these units if service was needed.

You know that having won several NZ titles using Ohlins equipment. Also that here in NZ it is perhaps a little akin to being in Siberia and we have to act quickly and develop our own solutions. And that hasnt always been so easy!

Mate, your work on the Ohlin;s is exellent, and if I ever wanted to get an Ohlin's modified to make it work properlly here, I would ask you first to do every time, You did fantastic work on my units, and then I always ended up doing all the externall settings myself to make it work how I wanted it to, as well as all your other customers that were using the same unit as me, always ended up with My internal set up choice of the shock, as you fealt that they deserved what WE had learned together ( NOT YOU ALONE, NOR YOUR SHOCK MACHINE) I would also not go around bad mouthing others trying to do set up work for there customer base, nor would I rubbish another brand

UNLESS THERE WAS A KNOWN GENUINE SAFETY ISSUE THAT ALL SHOULD KNOW ABOUT

Anyway, have a good day, and stop talking shit on here, and go earn yourself another million

[Robert Taylor]

Or be the Rep of an alternative brand in a very small market place, they work well enough for Robbie to win on, so what is there problem please??

Sorry Rob, but Ohlin's is good, but the NOT the only Good product out there, there are cheaper just as good alternatives availlable, and you and I both know it:doh:

( PS, You did not awnser my question about people building shocks to look like what they are not, ie, copyrite issues and court offenses like the Thai people that YOU mention all the time )

And others that can service them as well, you are very very Good, but not the only man in this country who can re build a shock with Quality in mind, which is a very strong point to you, and thanks and congrats on you for that.



NO, the question was in reference to Andrew Stroud, but you are very busy I know!



Exellent, and congradulations Ohlin's



Maybe you have lost my shock settings notes after all these years mate, but I remember that we added 2x comp shims, and reduced the bleed jet as well as changed the Linkages to make the shock firmer in the first part of the stroke to stop it squatting like a school girl

There was also some different pistons that you had machined up in Hawera as a copy of others that you had, but I guess you may have lost those notes as well eh ( O copyrite pops up again)

Yes, we do optimise internal settings constantly but there are 2 ''stock'' examples I can recite off the top of my head.

Optimise, or make work to the value all believe they are and should be?




Yes, but Andrew and Ray never needed to get any one to pull them apart to make them work here, ( after buying the product Ray included,) and again, there are others that are fully qualified to re build these units if service was needed.

You know that having won several NZ titles using Ohlins equipment. Also that here in NZ it is perhaps a little akin to being in Siberia and we have to act quickly and develop our own solutions. And that hasnt always been so easy!

Mate, your work on the Ohlin;s is exellent, and if I ever wanted to get an Ohlin's modified to make it work properlly here, I would ask you first to do every time, You did fantastic work on my units, and then I always ended up doing all the externall settings myself to make it work how I wanted it to, as well as all your other customers that were using the same unit as me, always ended up with My internal set up choice of the shock, as you fealt that they deserved what WE had learned together ( NOT YOU ALONE, NOR YOUR SHOCK MACHINE) I would also not go around bad mouthing others trying to do set up work for there customer base, nor would I rubbish another brand

UNLESS THERE WAS A KNOWN GENUINE SAFETY ISSUE THAT ALL SHOULD KNOW ABOUT

Anyway, have a good day, and stop talking shit on here, and go earn yourself another million

Oh my giddy Aunt, that is one hell of a post. But there are are a few inaccuracies or misinterpretations with your comments Shaun and I will add clarity as follows:

1)Yes, Ohlins, Penske and WP all make the best products , but they are very definitely several pegs better than anything else. Cheap equals cost cutting on material choices, tolerances, performance and repeatability shock to shock ( just ask the car guys about matching dampers! ). Local purchase , local full and proper backup. ( If you are lucky )

1a ) Robbie P is clearly pepared to hang it out more than the regular post classic jockies and I have no doubt that with better equipment and great set up support he would be faster. Its amazing what you learn when you attend overseas distributor conferences.

2) I have only mentioned the Thai shocks in this post. In terms of building a few specials with a mix of components from several suppliers then I plead guilty. Several people know the crazy things I have built. For example a KYB MX shock with Ohlins shaft internals, a Race Tech delta valve and a Showa bladder. Good enough to take 3rd overall in the MX nationals one year with an average level rider. I even took this shock to Sweden to run on their dyno. As for the Penske high speed valve I discussed its function with my viking friends, very transparently.
Not for volume production and certainly not a copyright infringement issue.
And then there have been ''cocktailed'' forks ''garaging'' components from several manufacturers etc.

3) As I reasonably recall you told me that the Ohlins shock you won the Isle of Man with several years back was box stock, therefore great for such a road course and your small, light frame. But that setup may not have been so flash for say a 6 foot 90kg rider.

4) That may be right about the linkages ( Yamaha FZR1000T pullrods, another cocktail again! ) but any internal mods were carried through after that wet race, it was as you recall the world debut of the 46PRXLS type and we wanted to first try with stock settings. But I may be half wrong.

5) Traxxion pistons, now in the bin as the Penske derived setting steps are too coarse and in any event we through long ( and ongoing ) accumulation of Ohlins experience now know comprehensively how to get the best out of them. I would have to say on balance that we have the Ohlins stuff working appreciably better, but of course have now taken a further leap forward with the TTX range. Nothing stands still in this game, ever.
Remember the Traxxion digressive fork pistons? A straight copy/ ripoff of Ohlins 98 model Superbike pistons with Race Tech size porting. Now also consigned to history.

6) It is one of the very biggest misconceptions that an Ohlins road bike shock for sportsbikes comes out of the box ready to road race. Not so, it is for riding on the road with. Here in NZ it arrives to the end customer preset for the application using the benefit of my experience that your feedback as a rider helped in no small way with over several seasons. But also other riders such as Rees, Shirriffs etc. Even a novices feedback and perspective can be valuable.

7) Andrew has had squat issues with the equipment he has used over the last few seasons and I know that has largely been masked with otherwise overfirm spring rates and just putting up with it. Other people who know have candidly mentioned this, a number of times. I am sure he could have had the equipment working a lot lot better but he was only intermittently challenged because of his riding brilliance. So he got away with it, up until last season.
As I have sold much much larger volumes of the product I distribute Ive had a whole plethora of different riders in shape, size and speed. So neccessarily I have had to be on my game and have learnt a hell of a lot through it. At the very start I was very much in the deep end.

8) You state your rider feedback help which I have acknowledged. You stated what you wanted as a rider and I translated that into tech mumbo jumbo to try and constantly improve your settings. But you have also benefited directly from other riders feedback. One example that I can recite is that we developed a new and very effective internal shock setting technique in Craig Shirriffs rear shock the year he won his first 600 title. That very same technique was applied into your title winning Honda the very next year. When Craig won his second 600 title he used an Ohlins shock designed for Indycars that I had first wanted you to test, etc.

9) We talked today about QUALITY CONTROL and through whys and wherefores stuff is done that shouldnt be. you know that I am VERY tetchy about untrained and poorly equipped people touching equipment that has the ability to maim or kill. ( Youve clearly got big crown jewels to bounce back given what you have gone through ). Also, onsellers having very limited product knowledge and experience, enough to literally cause danger.

I think it is an inarguable fact that there are too many people working on products that they know too little about and they do not have the appropriate tooling and experience to do so. ( Call me old fashioned )I will doubtless get bad mouthed by some for saying so, but there is a hell of a lot of shonky work being done out there. Yes there are a handful doing good work but they have also realised the need for appropriate equipment and networking off ( in my example ) the distributor technical database. There is only one Ohlins distributor, there is only one WP distributor etc.

10) Im not getting rich out of selling this product as the margins are by no means handsome. Perhaps I would have a smaller mortgage if I hadnt helped so many riders in mx and road race out of my own pocket over the last 2 decades or so ( including you ) Also many trips to Sweden for technical training and dialogue with their engineers, knowledge that in the past you have criticised me for being too open with. And I guess there is a ring of truth in that, but in turn I can identify a good number of sales because I have been less than secretive from my own accumulated knowledge and experience.
I guess also that many will think national champions past and present in this country are paid huge retainers by manufacturers and product sponsors. And receive huge sums in prize money. If that were so I would say give me and Shayne close to a million for Crown Kiwi Technical and we will happily find something else less stressful and all consuming to do...

Now lets get on with it and foster along a few of those emerging young riders!

[Pancakes]

All respect to other contributors to this thread for their skill in this field and the quality of their product but it does get a little tedious when the answer to any suspension question is answered with "buy Ohlins and get RT to tune them". In a world where we could all do just that if we wanted we might not need to cos I'd be riding an MV and a Buell on alternate days and would probably need a few years in the saddle of each to find the limits of their handling.

I think the first post was opening discussion on some new shocks to the market and if anyone in the industy or not has some first hand info that'd be great. Something like "dangerous because... ok for the price but not racing.. lack of adjustment if your little and the units are heavy but work well..." would all be constructive answers.

I have seen quite a few fast rally, drag and street cars built and having good quality parts to work with is an awesome starting point but have also been in cars that handled better than the competition with thousands of dollars spent in each corner that were parts bin specials built to the right specs buy someone who had done their own R&D. RWD Starlets with turbo rotaries running shorted sway-bars and springs from Cortina's re-heat treated by Snell's to the owners spec comes to mind.

[max@traxxion.com]

Hello Kiwi Bikers!

My name is Max McAllister, and I am President of Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.

:yes:

I know many of you are familiar with our name and our products. Robert T did an exceptional job of representing our products for several years, and he sold dozens and dozens of NZ racers and bikers our AK-20 Axxion Cartridge Kits.

I know that dozens of races and several NZ National Championships were won using Traxxion AK-20s, at least through 2005.

It was only through reading here that I learned our parts were "in the bin", and "direct rip offs of Ohlins Products", and "consigned to history" in NZ.

I am saddened to hear this!

I will accept the statement that my design is a "copy/ ripoff of Ohlins 98 model Superbike pistons with Race Tech size porting" as a compliment of sorts...

For certain, we have never copied anything Ohlins has ever made, to this day. They still have not made any piston, of any diameter, that looks like our parts. Ohlins Superbike forks use 25mm internals, and we don't use or believe in, use, or recommend 25mm cartridges unless you are stuck with them.

A copy is a copy...

I was the first to marry a valve high-flow (Typically Showa, but also modeled by Race Tech) piston with a digressive external ring into a single part. Both OEM Showa and Race Tech made a high flow linear piston, and the Ohlins SB piston was digressive only on the low speed side (dishing shim stack)... the tiny ports in the Ohlins piston (high speed) are actually progressive, which is one key area where bump harshness comes from. Anyplace that has bumps will appreciate having these removed. I have heard through the grapevine you have some bumps in NZ!

So if taking facets of other designs and combining them into a fashion that no other company had ever done, makes me a rip-off artist... then I guess I am guilty. I thought I was being inventive...:cool:

Anyway, as far as our products being "consigned to history"... I can't see how our kits were good enough for Tony Rees to win a championship with in 2005, and in 2006 or 7 they are "in the bin".

Our products have not stopped winning races elsewhere in the world!

In fact, we are the 1st, and only company in the world to have a fully Supersport Legal, bolt in, gas-charged fork cartridge kit, the AK-Gas. We have sold scores of sets of these around the world. Their quality and function is unmatched. At least one other major suspension manufacturer in the world will be selling them under a private label in 2008.

AMA Privateer Jake Holden (Jordan Motorsports) used our AK-Gas cartridges on his GSXR1000 Superstock Bike to stand on the box many times in 2007, consistently outqualifying and beating the factory teams. At the final race of the year at Laguna Seca, he Set Pole, won the race, and Set the Lap Record.
(PS, he did this without a single valving change or adjustment during the entire 2007 racing season...).

Consigned to History?

In the Bin?

I don't think so. ;)


One thing I have found to be fact: Suspension tuners in every country on Earth think there is something special and hard to work with at the tracks in their country, and they convince their local racers of the same. A bump is a bump, a hole is a hole, a crack is a crack. They all exist in tracks all over the world. :weird:

I do undertand that your bumps are pointing down from the earth and ours point up here in the States... but your bikes should weigh less, and hit the bumps with less force since you are hangin' off the bottom of the earth...:killingme ... seriously, though...

I have worked at racetracks in the USA, Canada, Japan, Austrailia, Qatar, England, France, Italy, and Spain. It's not the black magic it's cracked up to be.

I have only seen one track in the world that was so bad, I wasn't sure any brand of suspension mattered, and that was Shubenacadie, in Nova Scotia, far Eastern Canada... the snow and ice that's there for months on end destroys the pavement, LITERALLY. Other than that... there's not been any track I have seen that required anything mystical to make a bike go around it.

We have gone to great lengths to make products that work for racers at all levels, that don't require constant rework (never mind having to be reworked before you even use them) and the constant attention of an expert tuner. Couple that with our pricing which is far below that of any comparable product, and I think you will find Traxxion products to be a winning choice, and they will add great value to your racing program.

If you have any questions, please email me, max@traxxion.com .

Sincerely,

Max McAllister
President
Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.

[HDTboy]

Who else is keen to see Shaun, Robert, and Max in a good old fashioned schoolyard fight?

[Shaun]

Quote From MR MAX

One thing I have found to be fact: Suspension tuners in every country on Earth think there is something special and hard to work with at the tracks in their country, and they convince their local racers of the same. A bump is a bump, a hole is a hole, a crack is a crack. They all exist in tracks all over the world.



Hahahaha so dam true Max:rockon: So nice to have you speaking your mind in the New Zealand motor cycle community

YES, we have had our differences, but your product always worked extremelly well for me ( Supplied by Rob T) I did rubbish the odd thing you said to Rob, but that is life eh, every one has there own opinion!

(PS) The PENSKE you sent to Rob, is still about as well mate, in Fact, I own it now!!!! It does look a bit different, but really still is a Penske

A fix is a fix is a fix---- who gives a shit if it was not fixed by the only importer tinkerer of a certain product :first:

Look out Max, there will be a 3 letter no named person having a go at you soon as well, another party that likes to try and glorify there own existance using lots of words, but not really getting anything done, apart from telling more lies

I,ve got $ to invest in your product to be your agent out here from now on! are you interested? Ken @ K Teck ( We discussed this when he travelled 7 hours to see me in hospital in the UK a few months back, ) has got me on 4 Courses next year at his factory in the UK, doing shock Fork re building training programmes, apart from that, there is 3 guys in this country that I would employ to do any internal work Proffesionally.

[Robert Taylor]

Who else is keen to see Shaun, Robert, and Max in a good old fashioned schoolyard fight?

Hey Im taller and heavier than Max or Shaun but dont believe in brawling as the ''ultimate form of diplomacy''. Max, ''in the bin'' was a little bit harsh when in fact they are rattling around in a corner of my ever increasing parts inventory. As for ''rip off' yes you can take it as a compliment because it was a marriage of the obvious, and yes those 98 Ohlins pistons were only ever intended for world championship ''billiard table'' tracks. Shaun and I had that very discussion years back. Everything is a variation on several themes, it seems. The Traxxion piston is a good one, but the settings needed refinement. Ohlins make a 25mm digressive piston that doesnt look too dissimiliar to yours ( which we also had )and we used briefly with success until we more recently embraced the ''shim stack mid valve'' concept.

The fact is people started asking for the Ohlins 25mm cartridge kits which place emphasis on the mid valve shim stack as the main area of control for compression damping, something which you seemed to have a bit of ''inertia'' to. We won both major road racing champs last year with them and now have overall settings and variations that are working very well on our varied tracks. Everyone is blown away at the performance improvement and Ohlins updates are constant.

I am gobsmacked at how many I have sold despite a higher price than Traxxion. I do have some ( minor ) servicability concerns with the AK20s that I have eluded to you in the past, but that is between you and me. We carry out servicing and recon in a proffessional manner.

The Ohlins product we primarily distribute by and large serves the NZ road racing scene very very well and I never ever made any secret of that to you. Traxxion also have a number of clever products, as do a few other companies. But primarily we push the Ohlins flag because at the end of the day their engineering and R & D base is huge and highly effective, and many new products are coming through with ongoing development.

No product is without issues, it is how quickly they get resolved either at source or within the country of distribution. I dont think anyone needs to get into a bunfight about that.

[max@traxxion.com]

Sorry guys, you can your popcorn out of the microwave. There'll be no scrap here.

I like Robert and we have been friends for some years. He wouldn't be successful if he wasn't great at his trade. He's #1 in NZ for a reason.

I don't frequent internet chat lists, because basically, I just don't have time.

But it's surprising how many folks drop me a line when I need to pop into a forum and give a little more info to a topic at hand...:Police:

The best way to get me is to send an email to my box, and I will reply usually the same day, but since we are so far apart, cut me a little slack, and I'll get to you within a day!

:niceone:

[tri boy]

I truly hope Rob, Shaun, and now Max continue to frequent this forum, as the knowledge and open discussion is fantastic for Kiwi riders.
The jibes and taunts are also enjoyable:msn-wink:.

[Mental Trousers]

It's far more entertaining when the participants actually know what they're talking about, unlike the usual diatribes we have to put up with :niceone:

[Mental Trousers]

Ah... I dunno.
The usual lack of eloquence, insults, and bad language is pretty entertaining.
There are many who are proficient at insults, bad language and lacking eloquence though. If you were to point in any direction in a crowd of kbers you'd come up with 5 of them instantly.

[Shaun]

Sorry guys, you can your popcorn out of the microwave. There'll be no scrap here.

I like Robert and we have been friends for some years. He wouldn't be successful if he wasn't great at his trade. He's #1 in NZ for a reason.

I don't frequent internet chat lists, because basically, I just don't have time.

But it's surprising how many folks drop me a line when I need to pop into a forum and give a little more info to a topic at hand...:Police:

The best way to get me is to send an email to my box, and I will reply usually the same day, but since we are so far apart, cut me a little slack, and I'll get to you within a day!

:niceone:


WEll said Max, RE Robert and his quality! I fully agree, Robert is guy who does brilliant work.:Punk:

Time does move on ( as me and Robert Ohlin's have) But I will never ever bad mouth his true brilliant skill, of work man ship, absolutely lovely, if that is what you need.

I am here, as I always have been, to try and help my fellow bike riders, if I happen to get a couple of dollars for all my time great, I mean, I have spent 23 years racing bikes, because I love them and the game> That much, that I am actually going back to the Isle of man TT next year now to race again:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

:done:

[Robert Taylor]

WEll said Max, RE Robert and his quality! I fully agree, Robert is guy who does brilliant work.:Punk:

Time does move on ( as me and Robert Ohlin's have) But I will never ever bad mouth his true brilliant skill, of work man ship, absolutely lovely, if that is what you need.

I am here, as I always have been, to try and help my fellow bike riders, if I happen to get a couple of dollars for all my time great, I mean, I have spent 23 years racing bikes, because I love them and the game> That much, that I am actually going back to the Isle of man TT next year now to race again:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

:done:

And I wish you the very best for that. That you have bounced back with so much determination is incredible.

[Mental Trousers]

I am here, as I always have been, to try and help my fellow bike riders, if I happen to get a couple of dollars for all my time great, I mean, I have spent 23 years racing bikes, because I love them and the game> That much, that I am actually going back to the Isle of man TT next year now to race again:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Either you scrambled your brains in your accident or you're a hard c*nt. Good on ya.

[Shaun]

And I wish you the very best for that. That you have bounced back with so much determination is incredible.


Cheers Rob. but you know me very well, and I never take a kicking, with out giving one back even better:clap:

I am now better than I was before the crash, and very keen and gratefull to life and all the people on here that have helped me, cheers all.

And, thankyou for our past work together.

[Shaun]

Either you scrambled your brains in your accident or you're a hard c*nt. Good on ya.



Not Scrambled Not hard, just now know 100% fact ,that the accident was not my fault/mistake, it was a part failure. NOT A SUZUKI PART you honda riders ba hahahaha Bugger

[Shaun]

I truly hope Rob, Shaun, and now Max continue to frequent this forum, as the knowledge and open discussion is fantastic for Kiwi riders.
The jibes and taunts are also enjoyable:msn-wink:.

It did take a while ( And my crash) to get Rob here, but we have him now, load those emails to him chaps and chapessssses
he is not really that busy:done:




Sorry Rob:laugh:

[Mental Trousers]

Not Scrambled Not hard, just now know 100% fact ,that the accident was not my fault/mistake, it was a part failure. NOT A SUZUKI PART you honda riders ba hahahaha Bugger
That'd scare me even more. If it was my fault I'd know not to do that again, but to ride that hard you have to have absolute, total faith in the bike and that must be very hard to do after having a part failure that nearly killed you.

[Shaun]

That'd scare me even more. If it was my fault I'd know not to do that again, but to ride that hard you have to have absolute, total faith in the bike and that must be very hard to do after having a part failure that nearly killed you.



Not at all mate, The Bike was a Suzuki and a very good safe Suzuki as per all of them, the part failure has been identified as to what it was, and why it failed, so I am extremelly confident to get back on again

old and slow probally, but back out there and giving it a go

I would guess my first road race in NZ will be at Paeroa ( Bugger it ) again???

[Robert Taylor]

All respect to other contributors to this thread for their skill in this field and the quality of their product but it does get a little tedious when the answer to any suspension question is answered with "buy Ohlins and get RT to tune them". In a world where we could all do just that if we wanted we might not need to cos I'd be riding an MV and a Buell on alternate days and would probably need a few years in the saddle of each to find the limits of their handling.

I think the first post was opening discussion on some new shocks to the market and if anyone in the industy or not has some first hand info that'd be great. Something like "dangerous because... ok for the price but not racing.. lack of adjustment if your little and the units are heavy but work well..." would all be constructive answers.

I have seen quite a few fast rally, drag and street cars built and having good quality parts to work with is an awesome starting point but have also been in cars that handled better than the competition with thousands of dollars spent in each corner that were parts bin specials built to the right specs buy someone who had done their own R&D. RWD Starlets with turbo rotaries running shorted sway-bars and springs from Cortina's re-heat treated by Snell's to the owners spec comes to mind.

Yes much of what you have said is fair. But NZ does seem to be a place ( for many reasons ) where many people automatically think cheap is best and forego thought about longevity problems that almost always occur.

[Shaun Harris]

I'm not in the market anymore for shocks/forks etc, as RT has sorted my bikes, but another brand is starting to emerge out of Thailand called YSS.
The Aussies have started to distribute them, and some decent feed back is burbling to the top.

www.yss-suspension.com

OK, what you pay is what you get, and after sales service in NZ is probably nil, but some decent Oz talent has put a fair bit of input into the specs, and if QC is maintained, maybe they might be OK.:confused:




That is kind of like saying, "I like my pants even if they are weird:scooter:








Rude of me again, sorry night Rob

[Tony.OK]

Crikey whats that wee shock poking out from this scooter:buggerd:
:nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::rofl:

[Pancakes]

That is one fricken sexy bike!

[Shaun]

Crikey whats that wee shock poking out from this scooter:buggerd:
:nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::rofl:



Just another Quality Shock Tony:bye:

[Sensei]

Would you mind saying what broke Eg swingarm / shock link etc ??

[JD Racing]

They're a pretty good shock, the high speed adjuster is not as good as a Penske, you have to do a bit of work to the rebound bleed to get it to work properly and the really long top out spring can be a pain but generally they work well.
All this old school technology winning world championships :laugh:

[Shaun]

Funny this thread, as it reminds me off my job as test and development rider for the NZ BRITTEN FACTORY as well as the TRYPHONOS UK BIke

Britten used Ohlin's

Tryphonos used An American shock,

The lap times of both bikes was almost identicall

Amazing what you can learn as a rider, when a team gives you this honour role for a genuine reason ( Yea they probally just wanted to waste there money and time with me doing there testing for them)

Actually, the Britten team changed the Swingarm angle eventually after this, and A Stroud did nearly a full second a lap faster at Daytona than the year before

That was all day with out any fancy gadgits, shock Dyno etc, it was done by a TEAM of people, each one had there specialty to share on it, and WE all achieved the desired result.

A network of knoledge is great:clap:

[Robert Taylor]

Funny this thread, as it reminds me off my job as test and development rider for the NZ BRITTEN FACTORY as well as the TRYPHONOS UK BIke

Britten used Ohlin's

Tryphonos used An American shock,

The lap times of both bikes was almost identicall

Amazing what you can learn as a rider, when a team gives you this honour role for a genuine reason ( Yea they probally just wanted to waste there money and time with me doing there testing for them)

Actually, the Britten team changed the Swingarm angle eventually after this, and A Stroud did nearly a full second a lap faster at Daytona than the year before

That was all day with out any fancy gadgits, shock Dyno etc, it was done by a TEAM of people, each one had there specialty to share on it, and WE all achieved the desired result.

A network of knoledge is great:clap:

All shocks are first pre-developed on a shock dyno and their response range to adjustment tested prior to going to the track.
Funny that you were very receptive to preseason dyno development on your title winning CBR600RR shock, and attended a full day of dyno work at my own expense.
if you are going to continue to discredit or downplay certain pre test techniques to serve your own ends it is going to become clear to a lot of people very very quickly

[pritch]

Crikey whats that wee shock poking out from this scooter

Golly I do believe that's a WP.
(Not allowed to call them White Power any more for some reason?)

Fancy that, a Dutch team with Dutch sponsors choosing a Dutch brand of shock. Well I never! :whistle:

And for the hard of thinking headbangers out there: "pt"

[DEATH_INC.]

Yes much of what you have said is fair. But NZ does seem to be a place ( for many reasons ) where many people automatically think cheap is best and forego thought about longevity problems that almost always occur.
The problem wif little old NZ is a lot of us simply don't have the money to spend in the first place, so we always live in hope that ther'll be a cheap good one.... $2500 for a ttx (I'm guessing a bit on that...) is more than I've got to spend on the bike (if you can still call it that...) for 2 years.....

[Robert Taylor]

The problem wif little old NZ is a lot of us simply don't have the money to spend in the first place, so we always live in hope that ther'll be a cheap good one.... $2500 for a ttx (I'm guessing a bit on that...) is more than I've got to spend on the bike (if you can still call it that...) for 2 years.....

I agree, underpaid and overtaxed. Stay posted on pricing, production numbers are up for 08.

[TerminalAddict]

hate to be a thread dredger .. but ...

I hear W Whites are stocking these.

Obviously I am expecting the normal response: Buy Ohlins, and call RT

BUT .. surely someone has some info on the YSS shocks?

[trustme]

Contacted Whites & got a prompt response, they appear to be trying but I am not totally convinced
1/ No service agent appointed so at this stage little local backup [ one is coming ]
2/ Supplied ex O'seas with a spring rate determined by the factory , so as I read it, wrong spring rate means buy a new set of springs
3/ Ohlins shock would set me back $ 1800 , Yss equivalent [14mm shaft] =$1560.00, although a cheaper version = $ 1170 [12mm shaft ] was available but I wonder whether it will stand up to the abuse of gravel roads

I still can't get a real idea as to quality, gut feel is they are a level down on the big 3 & JD's post sort of confirms that

I am going to save my pennies , I concluded that I was better to spend the extra $300 to get a shock set up specifically for me from a supplier that could provide both technical & service backup. I know they will work .

Whites may get it right, but it seems to me that we will be supplied with what YSS thinks we need not with what we actually want, hope I'm wrong.

The reason everyone goes to RT is because like it or not he is the only one putting the effort into doing the job right

[TerminalAddict]

thanks trustme .. good info

I've *briefly* chatted with RT already .. .I'm just looking at all options.

Just because everyone does ohlins, doesn't mean that ohlins is the right choice .. although .. it is swing that way

But at least researching suspension options gives me something to do at work :)

[geoffm]

Contacted Whites & got a prompt response, they appear to be trying but I am not totally convinced
1/ No service agent appointed so at this stage little local backup [ one is coming ]
2/ Supplied ex O'seas with a spring rate determined by the factory , so as I read it, wrong spring rate means buy a new set of springs
3/ Ohlins shock would set me back $ 1800 , Yss equivalent [14mm shaft] =$1560.00, although a cheaper version = $ 1170 [12mm shaft ] was available but I wonder whether it will stand up to the abuse of gravel roads

I still can't get a real idea as to quality, gut feel is they are a level down on the big 3 & JD's post sort of confirms that

I am going to save my pennies , I concluded that I was better to spend the extra $300 to get a shock set up specifically for me from a supplier that could provide both technical & service backup. I know they will work .

Whites may get it right, but it seems to me that we will be supplied with what YSS thinks we need not with what we actually want, hope I'm wrong.

The reason everyone goes to RT is because like it or not he is the only one putting the effort into doing the job right

For $300 difference, I would pay the extra and get the Ohlins - local support, spare parts and service would be worth that to me without second thought. Now if the YSS was say $600, then it would be worth a punt as a budget option, especially if money was tight. For $1560 for an unsupported unknown shock, I don't think so.
G

[trustme]

For $300 difference, I would pay the extra and get the Ohlins - local support, spare parts and service would be worth that to me without second thought. Now if the YSS was say $600, then it would be worth a punt as a budget option, especially if money was tight. For $1560 for an unsupported unknown shock, I don't think so


yup, yup yup , precisely,
I get the feeling there is a certain amount of antipathy towards RT, simply because people percieve there is no viable alternative. RT sets the benchmark He provides a top quality product with top quality back up & service .The others have to lift their game if they want to compete, that costs money & is a long term investment , most suppliers won't be interested ,Too much effort for too little increase in the bottom line profit margin, Flog what comes , never mind the backup, take the money & run .
This is not an attack on Whites, simply a reflection on the way most importers operate, none of the other shock suppliers seem to be doing any better. It is a pity Shaun could not have got the Penske deal going ,

To me it will be worth the extra $300

[TerminalAddict]

for me .. it is a simple as lacking $2500 to do a suspension overhaul :'(

maybe just start saving eh? .. or sell my soul?

[pritch]

Crikey whats that wee shock poking out from this scooter:buggerd:
:nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::rofl:

Ummm I remembered this post while watching the Superbikes last night.

It seems that as of last weekend Ten Kate Honda have joined the evil empire?

[TerminalAddict]

holy thread dredger pritch !!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Ummm I remembered this post while watching the Superbikes last night.

It seems that as of last weekend Ten Kate Honda have joined the evil empire?

Yes indeed Pritch they have indeed joined the ''evil'' Ohlins empire. So evil they have started winning again.

[Robert Taylor]

For $300 difference, I would pay the extra and get the Ohlins - local support, spare parts and service would be worth that to me without second thought. Now if the YSS was say $600, then it would be worth a punt as a budget option, especially if money was tight. For $1560 for an unsupported unknown shock, I don't think so


yup, yup yup , precisely,
I get the feeling there is a certain amount of antipathy towards RT, simply because people percieve there is no viable alternative. RT sets the benchmark He provides a top quality product with top quality back up & service .The others have to lift their game if they want to compete, that costs money & is a long term investment , most suppliers won't be interested ,Too much effort for too little increase in the bottom line profit margin, Flog what comes , never mind the backup, take the money & run .
This is not an attack on Whites, simply a reflection on the way most importers operate, none of the other shock suppliers seem to be doing any better. It is a pity Shaun could not have got the Penske deal going ,

To me it will be worth the extra $300

Yes I sometimes feel that antipathy as he who sticks his head above the parapet will likely get it shot off. It matters not what you sell, product knowledge and full backup should be part of it, especially with a highly technical product.
You are either a purveyor of many products and dont do many of those so well or you purvey a very limited number of products with a huge focus.
Or to put it another way redshed mentality versus old world specialisation.

[pritch]

So evil they have started winning again.

I did notice that :yes:

Honda may have had more success but for the radical new, super small, ultra lightweight, battery that seems to have consigned Rea to the pits for the start of Race One and nobbled two other riders at various times during the day...

Ohlins 1 - Yuasa(?) 0

[Robert Taylor]

I did notice that :yes:

Honda may have had more success but for the radical new, super small, ultra lightweight, battery that seems to have consigned Rea to the pits for the start of Race One and nobbled two other riders at various times during the day...

Ohlins 1 - Yuasa(?) 0

We have had EXACTLY that problem with Craig Shirriffs so I do sympathise with their plight. Had they been using another suspension brand I wouldnt have been as sympathetic!!

I would trust Yuasa before any other battery brand. The battery market is also afflicted with cheaper brands that dont perform so well.

[Shaun]

For $300 difference, I would pay the extra and get the Ohlins - local support, spare parts and service would be worth that to me without second thought. Now if the YSS was say $600, then it would be worth a punt as a budget option, especially if money was tight. For $1560 for an unsupported unknown shock, I don't think so


yup, yup yup , precisely,
I get the feeling there is a certain amount of antipathy towards RT, simply because people percieve there is no viable alternative. RT sets the benchmark He provides a top quality product with top quality back up & service .The others have to lift their game if they want to compete, that costs money & is a long term investment , most suppliers won't be interested ,Too much effort for too little increase in the bottom line profit margin, Flog what comes , never mind the backup, take the money & run .
This is not an attack on Whites, simply a reflection on the way most importers operate, none of the other shock suppliers seem to be doing any better. It is a pity Shaun could not have got the Penske deal going ,

To me it will be worth the extra $300



I stopped with the Penske Due to quality! Robert/Dennis with Ohlin's is = to the best in the world for service and modifications if required, and our market is very small as well

[tri boy]

A phrase used by Snap On tools is quite fitting for this thread. It reads:
"We'd rather explain the price of quality,
than have to apologise for something less."

[Shaun Harris]

A phrase used by Snap On tools is quite fitting for this thread. It reads:
"We'd rather explain the price of quality,
than have to apologise for something less."




Exactually Mate

[HenryDorsetCase]

hate to be a thread dredger .. but ...

I hear W Whites are stocking these.

Obviously I am expecting the normal response: Buy Ohlins, and call RT

BUT .. surely someone has some info on the YSS shocks?

If this is for your Hornet, and it still has the forks I sold you in it, the Racetech/springs/oil was all supplied by RT at CKT.

I had zero problems with the shock I got from them as well. spend the 3 hundy, whats that, two decent lunches? one decent dinner?

[TerminalAddict]

If this is for your Hornet, and it still has the forks I sold you in it, the Racetech/springs/oil was all supplied by RT at CKT.

I had zero problems with the shock I got from them as well. spend the 3 hundy, whats that, two decent lunches? one decent dinner?

dude that post was from almost exactly a year ago :D

way before I bought anything from you

[JD Racing]

I get the feeling there is a certain amount of antipathy towards RT, simply because people percieve there is no viable alternative. RT sets the benchmark He provides a top quality product with top quality back up & service .The others have to lift their game if they want to compete, that costs money & is a long term investment , most suppliers won't be interested ,Too much effort for too little increase in the bottom line profit margin, Flog what comes , never mind the backup, take the money & run .
This is not an attack on Whites, simply a reflection on the way most importers operate, none of the other shock suppliers seem to be doing any better. It is a pity Shaun could not have got the Penske deal going ,

To me it will be worth the extra $300

Your almost there in what your saying. Robert has set a benchmark that really should be the industry standard, and that level of service costs a serious amount of money, however there just isn't the market there to support more than one company at that level. You only have to read this board, talk to riders, go to a race meeting and you'll soon learn that very few appreciate good suspension, most think they don't need it, few want to pay a reasonable amount for it, there just isn't the money in NZ motorcycling to support another serious suspension company. There will always be opportunists who can see a way to make a quick buck and that's the way it will stay until market conditions are suitable for someone else to enter the fray.

[cowpoos]

A phrase used by Snap On tools is quite fitting for this thread. It reads:
"We'd rather explain the price of quality,
than have to apologise for something less."
and yet...there are better than snapon tools!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Actually I disagee about Penske quality, its right up there as a very well built product with excellent materials. There are some things they do that are better than Ohlins.
Pricing though is a problem as they are lower volume with a greater component of hand build. Race Tech have now also started building a limited number of shocks for late model sportsbikes and I have absolutely no doubt that they will perform very well. But again pricing is a problem, their top of the line race shock retails at about US$1600, no need to work out what that will be in NZ$ with freight, clearances, gst etc.
JD is VERY correct about the cost of infrastructure. Springs are the biggest headache, we always have too many but at the same time never enough, at cost we have nigh on $40,000 in springs alone. Everytime I fly to Sweden for a technical update etc its goodbye to $6000. When you account for the size of the market, stock levels, equipment required, staff and cost of keeping staff, travel and time at race meetings, pressure from parasitical imports etc etc ad infinitum it doesnt fully stack up!
Its great to have Shaun Harris representing Ohlins / Race Tech because of his legendary setup skills and to interface to customers who may struggle with our ''mumbojumbo techspeak''!!!!

[roogazza]

Your almost there in what your saying. Robert has set a benchmark that really should be the industry standard, and that level of service costs a serious amount of money, however there just isn't the market there to support more than one company at that level. You only have to read this board, talk to riders, go to a race meeting and you'll soon learn that very few appreciate good suspension, most think they don't need it, few want to pay a reasonable amount for it, there just isn't the money in NZ motorcycling to support another serious suspension company. There will always be opportunists who can see a way to make a quick buck and that's the way it will stay until market conditions are suitable for someone else to enter the fray.

I popped up to Manfeild Sunday,and was chatting to Kerry Dukie while he changed tyres in the back of his truck. Seems his kingdom is growing well, and on wandering around, I did notice a lot of his stickers on bikes.
But yes, the market here is very small to support too many. Gaz.

[Robert Taylor]

We spend a LOT of money on product advertising, magazine articles and on this forum answering questions etc. Our investment in the supension industry is substanial. The reality is there will always be other people feeding off the fruits of such promotion.

[steelestring]

I'm not in the market anymore for shocks/forks etc, as RT has sorted my bikes, but another brand is starting to emerge out of Thailand called YSS.
The Aussies have started to distribute them, and some decent feed back is burbling to the top.

www.yss-suspension.com

OK, what you pay is what you get, and after sales service in NZ is probably nil, but some decent Oz talent has put a fair bit of input into the specs, and if QC is maintained, maybe they might be OK.:confused:

I am still very interested in seeing if anyone has actually given a shock a good test yet.. I am not stiring the pot to get burnt here:pinch: I have a had a look into this... but still... I dream of ohlins. If i had my way most things in my would be made of yellow springs, not of chocolate... :2thumbsup

[Shaun]

We spend a LOT of money on product advertising, magazine articles and on this forum answering questions etc. Our investment in the supension industry is substanial. The reality is there will always be other people feeding off the fruits of such promotion.




Burp! That was after feeding:wari:

[HDTboy]

Burp! That was after feeding:wari:

How was the food mate? Are we talking 5 star cuisine, or KFC grade rubbish?

[Shaun]

How was the food mate? Are we talking 5 star cuisine, or KFC grade rubbish?



5 Star Dude, just had a great dump also:scooter:

[steelestring]

the other, other white meat?

[cs363]

5 Star Dude, just had a great dump also:scooter:

You manufacturing YSS now? :innocent:

[HDTboy]

5 Star Dude, just had a great dump also:scooter:

Awesome! Was it a well formed dark brown bourbon dump? Or does it come out grated/ pureed due to all the modifications you've had in that region? Did you take a book in with you? How smelly was it on a 1-10 scale?

[Shaun]

Awesome! Was it a well formed dark brown bourbon dump? Or does it come out grated/ pureed due to all the modifications you've had in that region? Did you take a book in with you? How smelly was it on a 1-10 scale?


10! Big boy. Grated, and we will leave it at that eh

[mossy1200]

I have a pair of them on the back of my 08 bonneville and they are better than stock shocks.Dont think I would want to race on them but $300 for a marked improvement was what I was after and at that price chuck them and rebuy rather than service them.Only playing with 60hp though.

[steelestring]

300 bucks! Far out! Thats crazy cheap. Did you buy them in NZ?
That bike of yours is a very sweet looking machine:rockon:

[mossy1200]

300 bucks! Far out! Thats crazy cheap. Did you buy them in NZ?
That bike of yours is a very sweet looking machine:rockon:
I got them from Motorad but at the same time as the bike and since I have purchaced 4 new bikes from them they could have been less than cost price seeing as im an arm twister when I buy new a new bike.I got the triumph race pipes and grab rail at the same time.Have spent some money getting things since then to change the look(flat bars,grips,billet indicators) and running cr race carbs also.

[Robert Taylor]

Youve hit the nail on the head, they have a different target market to top end quality and performance suspension units.

[steelestring]

4 new bikes! dam man, jelous as hell!! especially of the current one :yes:
So motorad are stocking the shocks then? I found out about them through another source. Give those shocks of yours a good thrashing and keep us updated...

[mossy1200]

4 new bikes! dam man, jelous as hell!! especially of the current one :yes:
So motorad are stocking the shocks then? I found out about them through another source. Give those shocks of yours a good thrashing and keep us updated...
They have been on for 18months and 4000k.(I dont do many ks until holiday which we didnt do last xmas).They are good and got them because stock shock not good for 2 up.They have no adjustments other than spring.
If you want a performance option then ohlins.They are what I would describe as an improved item.When I do my race rear shock will be ohlins.Worth saving the extra dollars.

[bistard]

I got them from Motorad but at the same time as the bike and since I have purchaced 4 new bikes from them they could have been less than cost price seeing as im an arm twister when I buy new a new bike.I got the triumph race pipes and grab rail at the same time.Have spent some money getting things since then to change the look(flat bars,grips,billet indicators) and running cr race carbs also.

Hey there Mossy,I just wonder how much you have spent at Sawyers/Motorad since I traded that yellow VL1400 Intruder off you????
When you first moved up here from the deep south

[mossy1200]

Hey there Mossy,I just wonder how much you have spent at Sawyers/Motorad since I traded that yellow VL1400 Intruder off you????
When you first moved up here from the deep south
sp1,cbr1100xx,zx12r,bmwr1200s,t100 bonny plus a few in service and parts.Guess im good customer

[bistard]

sp1,cbr1100xx,zx12r,bmwr1200s,t100 bonny plus a few in service and parts.Guess im good customer

You also forgot the Fireblade & the VFR400 racebike thingy

[steelestring]

sp1 brand new? that would have been a bit of a mint:sweatdrop

[roogazza]

You also forgot the Fireblade & the VFR400 racebike thingy

You at work already B ? haha I'm off to breakfast now, lifes tough !! Gaz.

[mossy1200]

sp1 brand new? that would have been a bit of a mint:sweatdrop
Problem is they were nearly 30k then dropped to 20k.How ghey is that.

[mossy1200]

You also forgot the Fireblade & the VFR400 racebike thingy
I was attempting to buy the company one bike at a time:Oops:

[steelestring]

Problem is they were nearly 30k then dropped to 20k.How ghey is that.

Dam that sux... well you can barely find them on the road nowdays:crybaby:
.... you have had an experience for sure..:rockon:
I used to drool over one that used to park on lampton a few years back. They always looked comfortable... this meaning that was the closest a got one haha
Came with amazing factory suspension I have been told eh?

[mossy1200]

Dam that sux... well you can barely find them on the road nowdays:crybaby:
.... you have had an experience for sure..:rockon:
I used to drool over one that used to park on lampton a few years back. They always looked comfortable... this meaning that was the closest a got one haha
Came with amazing factory suspension I have been told eh?

I had mine painted in castrol colours with some bling added.
Suspension was good and prefered it to the rsv that I owned in 2000.
Only problem is I managed to bounce my wife off the back on a speed bump at Lake Ferry and she broke her arm in a few spots just before our wedding so the bike had to say goodbye.
A guy in Auckland bought it and havent seen it since.
Castrol Collin Edwards colours with arrow carbon cans if anyone has seen it let me know.

[bistard]

Problem is they were nearly 30k then dropped to 20k.How ghey is that.

Mate it didnt help you crashed it!!!!

[bistard]

You at work already B ? haha I'm off to breakfast now, lifes tough !! Gaz.

Hey Gazza me old mate,no I was not at work,but I have a new job,so drop in & see me at Wellington Motorcycles
Bazza

[mossy1200]

Mate it didnt help you crashed it!!!!

I like my version of got reversed over.LOL
Hard to stop within half the distance when a station wagon is reversing around a blind corner cause he missed a driveway.

looked better repaired.
Still hard to believe that $28500new can turn into $19995new 6 months later.
I blame ANZA and Bluewing Honda and im still 2 sore 2 buy a new honda ever again.

[steelestring]

Appropriate colour scheme you chose there sir!
Why the hell would they drop the price that fast? they were not a very common bike to buy vs the price and availability.
Better than the RSV oooohhhh yea!
WHy the hell did you hit the speed bump at full noise then? shit shit shit...lol just kidding man... what a shit thing to happen so close to your big day!!!
How long were you in the dog box for? Obviously led to the sale of the thing?
I would feel very crappy after someting like that.
One of the main reasons why I could never put my furby on the back... it wouldnt shut up and it would freak me out!:shutup:

[mossy1200]

Appropriate colour scheme you chose there sir!
Why the hell would they drop the price that fast? they were not a very common bike to buy vs the price and availability.
Better than the RSV oooohhhh yea!
WHy the hell did you hit the speed bump at full noise then? shit shit shit...lol just kidding man... what a shit thing to happen so close to your big day!!!
How long were you in the dog box for? Obviously led to the sale of the thing?
I would feel very crappy after someting like that.
One of the main reasons why I could never put my furby on the back... it wouldnt shut up and it would freak me out!:shutup:
I think sp2 was due out and there was still quite a few sp1s at Blue Wing and they all went to ANZA and the price was dumped.From what I found out some Honda dealerships ended up with shop stock that took a price dump when ANZA listed them at 19995.I ended up getting 14.5 for a bike that owed me 31 with the extras on it.Not good value for 14months.Has put me off buying new hondas for life.

Was doing about 20-30 over speed bump but the front lifted so I lent forward just as the rear hit hump and bounced.Wife tryed flying followed by mid air running then splat.

Define Dog Box?????
i must commend her for not breaking the indicators off during dismount.Shes a hard lady with good sence of humour after all look who she married.

[steelestring]

I think sp2 was due out and there was still quite a few sp1s at Blue Wing and they all went to ANZA and the price was dumped.From what I found out some Honda dealerships ended up with shop stock that took a price dump when ANZA listed them at 19995.I ended up getting 14.5 for a bike that owed me 31 with the extras on it.Not good value for 14months.Has put me off buying new hondas for life.

Was doing about 20-30 over speed bump but the front lifted so I lent forward just as the rear hit hump and bounced.Wife tryed flying followed by mid air running then splat.

Define Dog Box?????
i must commend her for not breaking the indicators off during dismount.Shes a hard lady with good sence of humour after all look who she married.

BAd bad honda!!!!
Dam gutted! they stiffed you then!
Dog box my man..... lots of cleaning and cooking... no beers or anything after dinner:oi-grr:

[mossy1200]

BAd bad honda!!!!
Dam gutted! they stiffed you then!
Dog box my man..... lots of cleaning and cooking... no beers or anything after dinner:oi-grr:

Still not following you.I wear the pants in my house(when my wifes not around).:kick:

[steelestring]

Still not following you.I wear the pants in my house(when my wifes not around).

Hahaha nice one dude:2thumbsup She is your wife you must have done something right:lol: she is a good one.. nobody likes broken indicators :]

[Shaun]

Actually I disagee about Penske quality, its right up there as a very well built product with excellent materials. There are some things they do that are better than Ohlins.


Its great to have Shaun Harris representing Ohlins / Race Tech because of his legendary setup skills and to interface to customers who may struggle with our ''mumbojumbo techspeak''!!!!


PENSKE QUALITY

I made a bad post when I said lack of Quality Re Penske, the Lack of Quality, was all my own doing, I started to bring them into NZ when I was ( And still are) a total Medical head case!!!! And my abillity to deal with customers etc at that time was NOT GOOD at all.

PS, thanks for the Plug Robert