Vehicle noise tests - New rules [Archive]

AllanB

14th December 2007, 16:19

Easy to blame the boy-racers but there is a shit load of Harleys running around Christchurch with open drag pipes that a f-n loud.

Re Harleys and loud pipes - a deep mellow tone sounds good to my ear - a HD with open pipes sounds like a untuned piece of shite. I get the feeling it is - if its REALLY loud it must be fast - look at me go!

Before some weaner gets upset at HD bashing - consider this - I work in town and see & hear all the bikes up and down Manchester St (bike shop strip here) plus live on the main route to Akaroa which means I get to see and hear heaps of bikes every weekend (dam shame) so I am in a good position to judge who is the loudest group/brand. Suck-on-that.

I see my new Hornet has a sticker saying at 4500rpms it is rated at 85db. My GS1200ss had a full Yoshi system rated at 94db - man that 9db is a lot of difference! About 90 would be sweet.

I see if registered prior to date gives a higher rating - in theory I can make the Hornet a bit louder and be legal.

You will also note that mopdern slip on pipes coome with a db killer stuffed in the end - I'd say 90% are removed for street use as the new $700 can does not sound much different from the stocker!

Expect to see these db killers welded in and non removable in the future.

R6_kid

14th December 2007, 16:21

Get a WOF from a bike shop...

Ixion

14th December 2007, 16:29

I wonder how many currently authorised WOF service suppliers will leap out and purchase a correctly certified sound metre...

None. The objective noise test must be done by a LVV certifier approved for that purpose. Normal WoF places can't do it.

There are a grand total of two (yep, two) such certifiers for the Auckland district. Expect lonnnnngggggg wait times!

Squiggles

14th December 2007, 16:32

Get a WOF from a bike shop...

thats what i was thinking, love to get told a bikes too loud with the pipes they're selling :lol:

Ocean1

14th December 2007, 16:45

None. The objective noise test must be done by a LVV certifier approved for that purpose. Normal WoF places can't do it.

There are a grand total of two (yep, two) such certifiers for the Auckland district. Expect lonnnnngggggg wait times!

Ah, grand scheme.

Seems I recall that practical considerations involving the scarcity of such equipment was the reason they demured last time the topic got all political.

Glad to see they've cleared that up, I so enjoy seeing concise, accurately targeted and readily applied laws enacted.

Must try to be less sarchastic...

The Lone Rider

18th December 2007, 00:32

I had a bike "failed" because I had non-factory pipes on it that were "obviously louder then the originals". I said to him they were under the legal limit, and his reply was that they dont test it with a sound pressure level meter (he didnt use those words, I used those words now because thats what it is really called). I was told their rule book says any non-stock pipes are an instant fail. This was at AA in Hornby.

Fuck them.

I took the bike then and there to a WOF place reccomended to my be a bike shop, which happens to be accross the street from the bike shop. Passed, with just a note I should be considering new tires soon.

AlanB can untwist as well.

xwhatsit

18th December 2007, 02:04

AlanB can untwist as well.

He's right, though; there are some excessively loud Harleys (almost always Harleys, very rarely is it another type of cruiser) which have completely open pipes. It's not a tone, or note, or anything; it's just a horrible loud blare, like a huge diesel truck with a shagged-out exhaust system. Not pleasant at all. I don't mind loud bikes, there's a Suzuki C90 near my work which is also fairly loud, but it's a shaped sound with a note, not just a rackety blare. What I loved the most though (even though it made my ears bleed) was the DBD34 I sat behind going over the Harbour Bridge :love:

The other bad ones are the Subaru cages, with the boxer engines, which can make a nice V-twin-esque thump, but sometimes are just too unbaffled and instead just throb until you want to throw up.

huck farley

18th December 2007, 06:57

scumdog

18th December 2007, 07:13

When will these no brainers wake up. First thing they do when they buy a new piece of shit Harley, is to put a fukn great drill up the pipes. Huck Farley

Hey Kuch Rafley, if I sent my H-D mufflers up to you would you 'put a fukn great drill up the pipes'?

Cos sure as hell I can't see how it would make one jot of difference on the mufflers MY Harley came with.

(Goes outside on this sunny morning and climbs onto shimmering, shaking, jack-hammer, piece of gutless, shiney, roaring its head ofF........... gutless piece of shit.. and goes looking for sister to extract sailor from):done:

"Glad to have been pissing everyone off with the racket I make since 1987" :woohoo:

PS Chuk Lafrey, you ain't one of the above sailor are you?:bleh:

The Lone Rider

18th December 2007, 09:27

I think anyone who says the "new" sound level laws are because of people who own Harley's need a serious head check.

Find me a 40-60 year old man, as that is the age bracket of most people with harleys, who rides around at 2am revving their engine.

The laws came about due to a younger age group with a few more wheels on their vehicle.

Oh and yes, a difference of 9 db is noticeable. Decibels are in a logarithmic scale, not linear.

In the end the "new" laws will hardly effect people with bikes unless you have pipes that are stupidly loud (definition: can be heard from around 3/4 of a Km away), and even then you will only get a 10 point deduction and a small fine. Or if you have a semi loud bike, that you drive around at 2am.

I haven't been pulled over yet on my newer bike, and I frequently use my bike late at night.

Subike

18th December 2007, 10:05

Get it right
Listen to a 4 cylinder jappa under hard acceleration that is fitted with a 4 into1
That sure sounds a frigging lot louder and can be heard for a greater distance than any slash cut or drag pipe fitted harley.
I have a Harris Exhaust fitted to my Exessive,
You can hear it over a pack of harleys, because it SCREAMS!

The laws are being bought in because of the aftermarket exaust suppliers who dont give a rats ass if their exhaust systems are loud.
All they care about is sucking that dollar out of the boy racers, and any other fool like me who buys their product.
Want to quieten down exhausts? Aim the laws at the product producers and the retail outlets that fit them.
So you want a 4" big bore exhaust...then buy a fucking MACK TRUCK!
because thats about the only thing that needs such a size... not a 4 cylinder jap import car.
Yes we will be penalised for loud exhausts because of blatent on selling of oversized units by exhaust suppliers.
But was it Harley Powered TQ's that got the decibel level dropped up there in the Dorkland area...what was the name of the race way, slips my southern mind..The one that has the boxing day raceing......
Yeap as the population grows, and there is less room to swing a cat, more rules will come into being.
Sad that the Free Spirted people like Bikers, Race driver, Fishermen, Trampers, Off road entusiasts end up loosing their enjoyment of life because of poncy bitches in the polished stainless steel kitchen, want a bit of quiet time to play with their cake mixes. Even when they build there house next to an existing motor sports venue!!! Go figger that one!
But I do agree that the boy racers, late at night, are the biggest bane.
Not the motor cyclist!

The Lone Rider

18th December 2007, 10:41

Pancakes

20th December 2007, 12:56

...........................I see my new Hornet has a sticker saying at 4500rpms it is rated at 85db. My GS1200ss had a full Yoshi system rated at 94db - man that 9db is a lot of difference! About 90 would be sweet.......................

...................Oh and yes, a difference of 9 db is noticeable. Decibels are in a logarithmic scale, not linear.......................

(Roughly) 3 dB creates double the sound energy. Thats why there is a big difference between 97dB and 100dB or more importanty 97 and 109dB! 4 times the sound energy. People hear different frequencies at different volumes too.

.............................So you want a 4" big bore exhaust...then buy a fucking MACK TRUCK!..............

A full system up to 3" assuming straight thru cans and nice bends will make more power at lower boost and let boost come on faster on a 2L turbo car. The tip is normally a bit bigger which is why it looks like 4". It may not be your style but if it works and thats what those people are into why wouldn't you do it?

The Lone Rider

20th December 2007, 13:01

(Roughly) 3 dB creates double the sound energy. Thats why there is a big difference between 97dB and 100dB or more importanty 97 and 109dB! 4 times the sound energy. People hear different frequencies at different volumes too.

You are forgetting that the human ear hears a 3db change as only a small change and a 10db change as roughly double or half even though the actual science to it says otherwise.

In other words we don't hear what is really going on.

Pancakes

20th December 2007, 13:40

Yep your right but it is valid in terms of mechanical testing. People still get the idea that 100dB isn't just twice as loud as 50dB.

Jantar

20th December 2007, 14:05

(Roughly) 3 dB creates double the sound energy. Thats why there is a big difference between 97dB and 100dB or more importanty 97 and 109dB! 4 times the sound energy. People hear different frequencies at different volumes too.

Umm, not 4 times the sound energy, but 16 times the sound energy. 3db is double, the next 3 db is double again (ie 4 times), the next 3db is double that again (ie 8 times), and the last 3db is double again or 16 times the energy.

Pancakes

20th December 2007, 14:13

Your quite right, thats what I meant.

davereid

20th December 2007, 18:22

Umm, not 4 times the sound energy, but 16 times the sound energy. 3db is double, the next 3 db is double again (ie 4 times), the next 3db is double that again (ie 8 times), and the last 3db is double again or 16 times the energy.

Quite true... but 3dB is commonly considered to be the smallest change detectable by the human ear..

So even a 3dB increase - a doubling of power would be un-noticeable to most deaf old bikers !

The issue to me is not how loud it is. Its why is it going around and around and around my bloody house at 4am !

homer

20th December 2007, 18:43

wouldnt be to concered everyone
after all they cant just do a ear test and most new ford and holdens from the factory wont make it

xwhatsit

21st December 2007, 00:38

huck farley

21st December 2007, 06:58

Hands up all those people with modified exhausts.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/vehicle-equipment-amendment-2007.html#31

As I have said at the start of this thread I have been to Anza motorcycles and have seen the guys in the workshop drilling out the Harley pipes. Well those Idiots that have done that are stuffed because they have no stock pipes to put back on if pulled up for noise pollution. Just shows how dumb some of these HOG owners really are.

As far as the hands up goes, I have got my hand up. I have a Remus can on my Trumpet. But I used my brains I got the can with the removable baffle. I have it in at the moment and is real quiet. I only take it out for Triumph RAT raids three times a year. Why piss folk of like the Harley idiots do. A recipe for disaster, and whatdoyaknow Some of the Harley riders have pissed folk of that much with their ear shattering pieces of Yankee shit. It has prompted a law change to nail us all now. How fukn dumb is that!!! :Police:

nallac

21st December 2007, 07:00

Hey Kuch Rafley, if I sent my H-D mufflers up to you would you 'put a fukn great drill up the pipes'?

Cos sure as hell I can't see how it would make one jot of difference on the mufflers MY Harley came with.

(Goes outside on this sunny morning and climbs onto shimmering, shaking, jack-hammer, piece of gutless, shiney, roaring its head ofF........... gutless piece of shit.. and goes looking for sister to extract sailor from):done:

"Glad to have been pissing everyone off with the racket I make since 1987" :woohoo:

PS Chuk Lafrey, you ain't one of the above sailor are you?:bleh:

if hes a sailor he'd be after your brother not your sister...

huck farley

21st December 2007, 07:17

You are an angry man. Did a Harley owner make off your wife?

No mate why? Because they are to busy poking there plonkers up the exhaust pipes. And by the way my Mrs hates fukn Harley's also. God bless her.
I do have some good Harley mates. But they are in the higher IQ bracket. Because they have after market pipes on, and the original pipes hanging up in the shed just in case they get nicked.

TonyB

21st December 2007, 07:22

Easy to blame the boy-racers but there is a shit load of Harleys running around Christchurch with open drag pipes that a f-n loud. Too true. Not just Harleys either mind you. The B family recently bought a house very close to Tunnel Road- this involved much hand wringing and worry about traffic noise. After being there for a couple of weeks I can say that the loudest vehicles to come past have been motorbikes....boyracers come a distant second and most trucks are way behind in the noise sakes. Its kind of amusing when a cruiser comes past making a huge amount of noise while putting out maybe 70hp if its lucky, and a 500hp truck hauling 40 tonnes comes past and I can barely hear it.

huck farley

21st December 2007, 07:34

Hey Kuch Rafley, if I sent my H-D mufflers up to you would you 'put a fukn great drill up the pipes'?

Cos sure as hell I can't see how it would make one jot of difference on the mufflers MY Harley came with.

Hey doggy that's a pile of bullshit. A stock standard Halrey compressor out of it's crate is as quiet as. Untill the no brainer retards, down syndrome Idiots get them drilled out. HUCK FARLEY!

scumdog

21st December 2007, 08:15

Hey doggy that's a pile of bullshit. A stock standard Halrey compressor out of it's crate is as quiet as. Untill the no brainer retards, down syndrome Idiots get them drilled out. HUCK FARLEY!

On my mufflers there were two steel plugs in each muffler, each about 20mm in diameter and shaped like a frost-plug.

With them in place the bike was as noisy as a Goldwing (when the engine was not running.!)
I used an old .22 barrel to knock them out - no drill needed.

Then it sound ALMOST as noisy as a brand-new GN250

So in the interests of science I 'dismantled' the mufflers by cutting through them just where they taper-down near the exit, I then pulled out what seemed to be about 2.5 tonnes of baffle-tubes and fibreglass wadding etc - man that's a lot of weight to tote around needlessly!!

I then had some tastefull stainless end-caps made, these are held in place by three Allen-head bolts because dumb as I am accused of being I wanted to maybe install baffles if the resulting noise was too much.

So now I have an empty 'can' with caps on the end with a 30mm exit hole

NOW the bike sounds about as loud as Dangerous's Guzzi cans - not an unholy racket.

So, Truck Fiumph to you sir:bleh::nya::finger:

Beeza

21st December 2007, 11:29

My Beeza 250 with its outrageously high 10:1 compression ratio makes quite a worrying amount of noise on its standard Armoury Road, Birmingham pipe. I really wouldn't mind if it could be quietened a bit, but it would involve losing too many of the not-too-many horses out of my wee little horsepower paddock. So that just won't happen.

Fortunately our local WOF people are appreciative of older sort of machinery and will cut us a little slack --- but not much!

vifferman

21st December 2007, 11:30

I can say that the loudest vehicles ... have been motorbikes....boyracers come a distant second and most trucks are way behind in the noise sakes. Its kind of amusing when a cruiser comes past making a huge amount of noise while putting out maybe 70hp if its lucky, and a 500hp truck hauling 40 tonnes comes past and I can barely hear it.
We can just see the top of the Harbour Bridge from our house - in a direct line it's maybe 2-3 km away. On an average night, the only noise I can hear from it is the occasional HD go over it, and maybe a very, very occasional noisy car.

The loudest vehicle in our neighbourhood is some kinda Harley from a couple of streets up the hill. It must be three times as loud as any of the boyracermobiles a couple of houses up from us (although there's one that's overdue for the ExpandingFoamInTheMufflerInTheDeadOfNight modification).
The drag pipes on the Harley are SO obnoxiously loud I feel like lobbing summat over the wall as he rides past. To put in perspective, there's a DeTomaso Pantera with (stock?) big bore zorsts on it across the road, and it makes the walls rattle when it's running. The difference is, it's a very low rumble, and the owner never goes round and round the block unlike the tard who owns the Harley. He also knows it's loud, so he keeps the revs low so as to not annoy his neighbours. Mr Loud Harley WANTS to be noticed, and he deliberately makes as much noise as he can. D'ya think a lump of cobblestone bouncing off his fake Nazi helmet will let him know that he is being noticed? :spudwhat:

Mike748

21st December 2007, 12:03

There will be some who will consider this as being bad for the bike but ....... Back on the farm we would roll up some chicken wire and shove it up the exhaust to kill the noise when required. Don't leave it in too long or it'll soot up and kill the power big time, but this was quick, easy and effective.

Pancakes

21st December 2007, 14:52

The tone of the exhaust does count for alot too as people have said. Also, the time of day and situation. A nice motor of any type in (almost) any vehicle given some gas will make my head turn with appreciation if I have deleberatly gone to a "car cruise" type area on a Sunday afternoon.

On the other hand, anything loud waking me up at 3 in the morning, including dickeds with totally stock cars killing the engine to do backfires and waking the kids up will get me pissed off!

Even my little bike with the pipe I made has some thud at quite a volume but I don't go 'round at full noise in area's where it won't be liked. Thats the downside of a loud vehicle. Most of the volume can be controlled with the wrist/foot. It's the drivers that make the choice.

You can give a Harley WOT from low revs and make tons of noise without killing yourslf too. An IL4 will be ok till the power hits and you find yourself on your back with the bike bearing down on you. A V8 and you'll be facing the other way. The type of vehicle (not just Harleys) can lend itself to more volume more often too then I guess.

davereid

21st December 2007, 18:31

of course the exhaust in my old jag will pass the test. But wait till I turn the stereo on... but that wont be tested !

homer

21st December 2007, 18:40

I love the panzy racers
Especially when my ford and bike both sound better than theres better than theres fucken better than theres
:stupid:

huck farley

21st December 2007, 21:25

D'ya think a lump of cobblestone bouncing off his fake Nazi helmet will let him know that he is being noticed? :spudwhat:

You line him up, and tell me when and I'll chuck it. Done deal.
I think every suburb over the length and breast of the country has it' own Idiot flying around on a compressor, with pistons trying there best to get out of the drag pipes. (why on earth would you bother)

huck farley

21st December 2007, 21:27

Bren

21st December 2007, 22:10

hey huck, you are going a long way to make enemies on this site....what a newbie like you stirring up shit!
fuck mate settle down a bit on voicing your opinions until you get some cred!:mad:

scumdog

22nd December 2007, 08:16

hey huck, you are going a long way to make enemies on this site....what a newbie like you stirring up shit!
fuck mate settle down a bit on voicing your opinions until you get some cred!:mad:

Ah, don't worry about 'ol Huck, the 'invisible-to-him' concentric red circles on his back are providing some of us with entertainment....

Hailwood

22nd December 2007, 12:36

I ride a Harley with screamin eagle pipes that i fitted so I could actually hear my bike..I have rideen past many cops and had a wave so i guess the noise level is all good...I do agree that there are some bike riders (some are harleys) that have very very loud pipes that make no nice noise at all..rather an awful scream..it wouldnt worry me in the slightest if these guys had to make their bikes a bit quieter though....

My bike horn i fiited is louder than my pipes though...128db..try to make me take that off my bike!!!!!!!

As to Huck Farley.....merely an individual who doesnt yet have the grasp of the English language with enough skills to make his point wihtout resorting to that type of comment....his comments are mind over matter..i dont mind because his comments dont matter....

Have a good break and please ride with the black round things on the road at all times.......see you out there............

Taz

22nd December 2007, 12:54

About time they came down on noise. Hope you all kept your standard cans!

TonyB

22nd December 2007, 13:25

As has been said above, theres nothing wrong with a deep exhaust note. The problem is when there is insufficient baffling (or none) and you get that loud cracking sound- THATS whats annoying. To me they are not only WAY too loud, they sound like shit. I'm not exactly a Harley fan, but a Harley (or any other V-twin cruiser) with a well thought out set of pipes sounds bloody good. Best one I've ever heard was an early Evo 1340 with a Harris 2-1 on it. Fark it sounded mint:niceone: Rashika's Buell XB12R sounds bloody good too (just don't tell her I said that)

huck farley

22nd December 2007, 16:14

hey huck, you are going a long way to make enemies on this site....what a newbie like you stirring up shit!
fuck mate settle down a bit on voicing your opinions until you get some cred!:mad:

I won't be treated like the new kid at school mate If I want to disagree with some half wit (and there is a terrible lot on this site) then I shall do so.

How many brownie credit points do you have to acquire before you can have your say? I started of being nice with a couple of posts and within two days I was called a C$#T fukn Idiot etc.

So to hell with the credits. If someone singles me out then look out. I won't be sitting back, and taking it. I think most of the shit slinging has come from the HD riders as my User name says it all. But hey pal newbie or not. This fella takes a backward step for no cunt.

Taz

22nd December 2007, 20:29

:wait::wait::wait::wait::wait:.................... .........

TOTO

22nd December 2007, 20:44

HAven't read the whole tread but here is what a guy at Mt. Eden Motorcycles told me: " do you want to get a louder pipe for your bike ?" - "yea , I'd love to but is it gonna pass the new regulations?" - " hell yea , if you bring it for a wof here no wories!!!"

So there you have it, I think its not going to affect us too much. There is always a way around. :rolleyes:

RC1

22nd December 2007, 20:48

:wait::wait::wait::wait::wait:.................... .........

would you like some :corn: :drinkup::doobey:

Bren

22nd December 2007, 21:00

I won't be treated like the new kid at school mate If I want to disagree with some half wit (and there is a terrible lot on this site) then I shall do so.

How many brownie credit points do you have to acquire before you can have your say? I started of being nice with a couple of posts and within two days I was called a C$#T fukn Idiot etc.

So to hell with the credits. If someone singles me out then look out. I won't be sitting back, and taking it. I think most of the shit slinging has come from the HD riders as my User name says it all. But hey pal newbie or not. This fella takes a backward step for no cunt.

man, you are falling over backwards to make fuckin enemies!!!:angry2: some of those "half wits" are frikkin good people whom I respect
.If only you spend the time to get to know them before bad-mouthing them then you might learn a thing or two.
There is a wealth of knowlege on this site to be learned by a lot of them, and it seems those that know the most know it by living the school of hard knocks.
Quite a few Harley riders out there are older folk (sorry scummy), and as such have years of experience on the road....

BUT, if ya bad mouth them then are they gonna give you any of their hard earned knowlege??? nah mate, they will just frikkin either ignore ya or put you to shame in some way....:bash:

Get with the program mate and show some of these guys respect! or is respect something that no longer exists in your generation????

Defiant

22nd December 2007, 21:54

Just a quik reply to this thread cause i cant be stuffed reading it all. As a MTA member and working with custom exhausts for bikes and cars every day i was informed of this law long ago and have a hard copy of the entire thing...too damn long. What the breif of it all is that the decibal limit for bikes will remain UNCHANGED. But in the past if your wof guy thought it was too loud you just had to get it sorted, after the law if it is considered too loud by the tester you can be instructed to have it tested before a wof will be issued and the test will be between 150-200 bucks depending on where it is done. When it has be checked your exhaust will be stamped as compliant. if you get pulled over you show the cop your certification sticker/stamp on the exhaust, if you dont have one you can be instructed by the cop to have it tested, either way it sucks, cause it all starts with how loud it sounds to the naked ear of the cop or the wof station. The law also states that the cost of the testing gear makes it un-economical for testing stations to have and the extra training envolve to use it so independent testers will be used. The Limit for the bikes is not being changed only the way they are going to police it.

If anyone wants a full copy i do have an easy to read/understand copy you can have. The biggest problem is the back lash the new law has on the trade fitters who install the custom/aftermarket exhausts, in the end the if the customer fails a wof regardless of wheather they asked for the exhaust system or not it still has to be repaired to comply at the cost of the company who installed it.

huck farley

22nd December 2007, 22:15

Get with the program mate and show some of these guys respect! or is respect something that no longer exists in your generation????

I am not calling out any senior members in particular, merely sticking up for myself. I know the old timers with a million posts, look down on us scooter boys, and reading between the lines I get the feeling I should be seen but not heard.
Don't worry I will try not to upset to many old timers. I will make a lot of mates on this forum, and do have a few already, I am not the young rebellious young mouthing of Buck you think I am.
All I have to say Southern man is, that I have been riding myself for 40 years. Not some young buck mouthing of. Just an old one mouthing of. I am one of those senior riders that deserves respect also. But I don't give a horses arse If I do or don't. Anyway, Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year. That goes for every one who drops by and takes the time to read this post.
Cheers
Huck Farley

Defiant

22nd December 2007, 22:21

Hey Huck dont stress i know how you feel. they'll get over it.........lol..I posted a few posts here and got nailed to the wall.....but hey have your say, its only fair, if people take it out of context thats not your fault, some people need to chill out. Merry Xmas to all too......

Defiant

22nd December 2007, 22:27

The Lone Rider

22nd December 2007, 22:30

theres nothing wrong with a deep exhaust note
Deeper frequencies can still be at the same SPL level as the tones that are piercing and "too loud". Deeper frequencies have more compression force in them and do more damage not only to your hearing but to everything.

A guy standing in front of a W bin at a rock concert would have his kidneys destroyed from the bass.

I've had a 17hz sine wave fed through a PA system and average levels and after a few minutes had to get him to shut it off as my chest was tightening and I was on the verge of vomitting.

All you are talking about is obvious sensitivities of the human hearing, not the complete effect.

When you are sleeping a low rumble is at least as disturbing as something screeching its head off.

Taz

23rd December 2007, 05:05

would you like some :corn: :drinkup::doobey:

Yes please :)

Motu

23rd December 2007, 10:31

The biggest problem is the back lash the new law has on the trade .

For me the biggest problem is the backlash....and anger and abuse from customers....that us AVI's are subject too.A lot of us kinda of,um...bend our ears sort of y'know on exhaust noise.Something blatantly noisy is out,but a bit of noise is ok.But to have to turn around and fail someone on a system you've passed several times before turns a good customer into a vindictive prick you just want to tell to fuck off and never come back.I'm willing to bend rules with a sensible approach in certain areas,but when it can come back on me in the form of Police action,then I will fail the item,no matter what it is or who made it.It's up to the customer to prove their vehicle meets the regulation....all I have to say is no....The subjective test sucks...it's like saying I don't like the colour of your bike,the objective test removes my personal opinion from the equation.

huck farley

23rd December 2007, 13:56

but when it can come back on me in the form of Police action,then I will fail the item,no matter what it is or who made it.It's up to the customer to prove their vehicle meets the regulation....all I have to say is no....The subjective test sucks...it's like saying I don't like the colour of your bike,the objective test removes my personal opinion from the equation.

Well there you have it. Straight from the horses mouth (excuse the pun) so to speak. So for all of you wise guys, that drilled the guts outa ya systems. You had better get scouring trademe for a set of legal pipes. I know where I can get my hands on a couple of sets. No not at the Massey Ferguson dealers either. My cobber has some hanging in his shed after wiseing up and buying a proper bike, an MV K2 (awesome bike) Keep an eye out for the "screamin legal" systems on Trademe.
cheers
H.F.

huck farley

23rd December 2007, 14:36

hey huck, you are going a long way to make enemies on this site....what a newbie like you stirring up shit!
fuck mate settle down a bit on voicing your opinions until you get some cred!:mad:

Ya didn't get much of that cred you preach about yourself. Posting a horrific picture of dead cats on food trays and stretched over in glad rap. For sale at the mad butchers. Back in August.

I also noted that you wanted to delete the post, and didn't know how to. Only a mentally deranged sick mother fukka would have posted what you posted. And you have the Gaul to to tell me not to go stirring any shit because I'm a newbie. For fucks sake. I'm an angel in comparison to you. On yer fukn bike sunshine. Your the first on my ignore list!! :sick:

terbang

23rd December 2007, 14:49

Not some young buck mouthing of. Just an old one mouthing of.
That would be mouthing OFF, OF course...

huck farley

24th December 2007, 07:08

That would be mouthing OFF, OF course...

Yes that's right terbang. Mouthing off of course, you are dead right. I don't have a spelling correction programme like you on my Comp.

Bren

24th December 2007, 16:15

All I have to say Southern man is, that I have been riding myself for 40 years. Not some young buck mouthing of. Just an old one mouthing of. I am one of those senior riders that deserves respect also. But I don't give a horses arse If I do or don't. Anyway, Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year. That goes for every one who drops by and takes the time to read this post.
Cheers
Huck Farley

Ya know Huck Farley, after I read one of yer previous posts I thought to myself this guy might not be too bad..and thought I might shut up and maybe we might have a mutual truce...

For fucks sake. I'm an angel in comparison to you. On yer fukn bike sunshine. Your the first on my ignore list!! :sick:
...but after reading the last scathing post I feel it is only fair to say that you are an absolute asshole! I thought ya might jus be some immature kid, but now it seems ya are just an old arrogent retard who just hates the world. Who the fuck would use a sign in name like yours, cos for a start your name in itself would piss off people!
Besides which mate, I may post some stuff that may be controversial, but I do not normally go around insulting people to their face (unless they are arsewipes like you that frikkin deserve it!).
Do yerself a favour and go and take yer Valium, cos man you are so frikkin wound up you need it!

HRT

24th December 2007, 16:32

So.... how bout that topic that this thread is actually about?

The subjective test sucks...it's like saying I don't like the colour of your bike,the objective test removes my personal opinion from the equation.

Exactly. Few things in the inspection that are subjective and its up to the AVI to make a call on if its legal or not. If you say it is and something happens then it can be your arse on the line, and if you fail it you get to put up with the shite from customers.

It is a good idea, annoying that you are going to piss customers off by saying they need to get it tested only to find out its perfectly legal. Extra expensive they have to shell out for. At least its only once I guess.

ElCoyote

24th December 2007, 16:52

Deeper frequencies can still be at the same SPL level as the tones that are piercing and "too loud". Deeper frequencies have more compression force in them and do more damage not only to your hearing but to everything.

A guy standing in front of a W bin at a rock concert would have his kidneys destroyed from the bass.

I've had a 17hz sine wave fed through a PA system and average levels and after a few minutes had to get him to shut it off as my chest was tightening and I was on the verge of vomitting.

All you are talking about is obvious sensitivities of the human hearing, not the complete effect.

When you are sleeping a low rumble is at least as disturbing as something screeching its head off.

+1 As beauty is in the eye of the beholder so indeed is sound selective. Trucks and buses assail the senses less than a boy racer yet register more on decibel metre. Personally I prefer the bus and truck over a pissant 4 cyl ricer with a 4" pipe which is significantly bigger than the penis of the driver.

A Ducati and a Subaru is music to the ears yet is still in the no-go range
but sweet nevertheless providing they are not red-lined at 2:00am :wari:

terbang

24th December 2007, 17:01

Yes that's right terbang. Mouthing off of course, you are dead right. I don't have a spelling correction programme like you on my Comp.

Umm, Errr... No. Last time I used a spell checker it was quite happy with the words off and of. Sort of like, if yer gonna attack people by spraying bullets at them, then make sure you can use a gun. So when on the attack with words..?
Selamat Hari Natal dan Tahun Baru. Bung.

terbang

24th December 2007, 17:07

Oh and back on topic. I reckon that nearly all motorcycles emit an awesome sound, even the Harleys and it is a shame that laws will soon be passed to quiet them down. Riding up the Sydney M5 at 130 kliks got me a $400 odd dollar fine, fair enough I was riding a potential missile and speeding. However on the same motorway there were large signs that warn of a $2000 fine for excessive noise! Figure that one out.

The Lone Rider

24th December 2007, 17:08

+1 As beauty is in the eye of the beholder so indeed is sound selective.

Well it's not even that. The human ear is very selective, and because of the way the ear canal is shaped, tones around 1khz stand out most (this has to do with communicating with other humans). Perfect hearing is from 20hz to 20khz (and thats only like that in a new born baby, our hearing degrades from then on), but the receptability of the ear to the frequencies in that range vary greatly.

Between the range, our reception is not a line.

----------------------------

The term for it escapes me, but it is why when sound levels are tested they are done on what's called an A weighted scale. Or at least it should be.

Another thing to also take into account is that we are less directionally receptive to low frequencies, where as higher frequencies we can hear from left/right/front/back (hass effect).

That is one reason why those home theatre systems with a "left and right" sub woofer is a really stupid thing to buy.

YellowDog

24th December 2007, 17:11

A tough one to enforce for bikers.

It will be good to get a Police view to this subject.

I suspect it wiill be used to silence the 4 wheeled hoons!

Pancakes

24th December 2007, 20:49

......................... Personally I prefer the bus and truck over a pissant 4 cyl ricer with a 4" pipe which is significantly bigger than the penis of the driver....................................

I HATE when a bus stops next to you and vents it's compressed air in a super loud Psssssssttt!!!! It is painful to be near and can't belive they can do it legally. The problem is some people like SUbaru's and not busses so the test would have to be a total dB rating and not allow for perspectave at all to be fair.

.....................That is one reason why those home theatre systems with a "left and right" sub woofer is a really stupid thing to buy.

And getting one Sub in phase (a musical one not a "doof doof" one) is hard enough given room nodes etc, two is a drama thats good for nothing except helping the staging of the "lifestyle" sattelite speaker systems with real high XO points.

The Lone Rider

24th December 2007, 20:56

I think you mean room modes

And sounds like you are a semi-new grad of MAINZ.

And yeah, any woofer worth its beans should be able to do at least 25hz and then for the mode to fit perfect you need like a 15m3 in all directions and the speaker centered lol.

But then if you were crazy about room modes then you'd also chuck a graphic equaliser in the chain and borrow a reference microphone.

And woofers suck, they are all just ported bins. W bins rock hard.

If there was a very standardized pipe system for bikes (which would also make bikes kinda boring) it'd be very easy to baffle as needed.

Theres a guy in Hamner I think makes pipes that have folding baffles and you rotate a screw and it adjusts the air flow/noise level to whatever you want.

Pancakes

24th December 2007, 21:13

I think you mean room modes

Nope, nodes is what I have always read and called them.

And sounds like you are a semi-new grad of MAINZ.

Nope.

And yeah, any woofer worth its beans should be able to do at least 25hz and then for the mode to fit perfect you need like a 15m3 in all directions and the speaker centered lol.

Yeah but I don't have space for mine now so am converting it to a 4th order isobarik sub. Will fit by the couch nicely. Not much less volume (size) than the flatter W but squarer.

But then if you were crazy about room modes then you'd also chuck a graphic equaliser in the chain and borrow a reference microphone.

Done just recently as we moved house. Moved the tweeter/mid XO down and need to make an L-Pad for the spike that is there now. Not very noticable but a bit harsh on some tracks. Have a reference mic too.

And woofers suck, they are all just ported bins. W bins rock hard.

Ah! But they let me get a flat responce down to 25Hz and a slow enough roll off after that that they're well worth the cost of amps and the space. With electronic music or anything once the volumes up I always have them on. Have a 2 channel 50 band eq also but don't like using too much boost so try to get the speakers right first.

If there was a very standardized pipe system for bikes (which would also make bikes kinda boring) it'd be very easy to baffle as needed.

I don't think there needs to be a standarised system in place. The really loud ones are as far as I'm aware all aftermarket ( and I'm calling Screaming Eagle aftermarket too even tho lots come dealer fitted) All you'd need is a dB limit in place and if a shop fits the pipes, they test then rivet on the plate stating the volume and that it's under the limit. If you fit them yourself you go for a new WOF to get your cert plate. Most pipes are for certain makes/models and are tested specifically already. What a Honda VTR 1000 likes a Honda CBR 1000 most probably won't so a reasonable assurance could be given that the outcome will be know before fitting.

Theres a guy in Hamner I think makes pipes that have folding baffles and you rotate a screw and it adjusts the air flow/noise level to whatever you want.

They make those for cars too but for racers or track day bikes aren't the systems with removeable bungs enough? The cert plate would be for the fitted pipe with all inserts removed of course. You can then runn your pipe with it in if you don't want to wake the kids when you get home or go numb eared on a long ride etc.

The Lone Rider

24th December 2007, 21:19

Room modes matey

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Room+Modes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Pancakes

24th December 2007, 21:26

I was curious so Googled "modes" and "nodes". Seems Modes is more common but they are used interchageably . I have played with stuff lots but no formal training as opposed to all the "done a course" bunnies who've never built or tested jack-shit (also bung head right now and memory is all whack so I'd never say your wrong).

RDJ

24th December 2007, 21:38

I won't be treated like the new kid at school mate If I want to disagree with some half wit (and there is a terrible lot on this site) then I shall do so. <> But hey pal newbie or not. This fella takes a backward step for no cunt.

Ah, the enchanting poetry of your discourse. Seriously Huck when your arguments have merit it's easier for others to appreciate without a cloud of abuse obscuring your points...

rudolph

24th December 2007, 21:49

What about my Harley?, its standed mufflers don't baffle shit, its over 110 dba with standed mufflers:argh:

Ixion

24th December 2007, 21:55

huck farley

24th December 2007, 21:59

Ah, the enchanting poetry of your discourse. Seriously Huck when your arguments have merit it's easier for others to appreciate without a cloud of abuse obscuring your points...

I am terribly sorry I am not really an aggressive person But when people call me out I am afraid I tend to chuck the pen away and keep going with the sword. But dog shit or scumbag or whatever he goes by hates me because he rides a Harley and really that's his misfortune not mine. :crybaby: Oh well time for the Valium.

scumdog

24th December 2007, 22:08

IBut dog shit or scumbag or whatever he goes by hates me because he rides a Harley and really that's his misfortune not mine. :crybaby: Oh well time for the Valium.

Whew!
'dogshit or scumbag or whatever he goes by hates me because he rides a Harley'
I was worried you were meaning ME - but then I remembered I don't hate you - and my name ain't 'dog-shit' or 'scumbag' - but I DO ride a Harley. (close-call eh?)

The Pastor

24th December 2007, 22:15

What about induction noise? I have a stock exhaust, but the induction noise is way to freeking loud.

huck farley

24th December 2007, 22:31

arrogent retard who just hates the world. Who the fuck would use a sign in name like yours, cos for a start your name in itself would piss off people!
Besides which mate, I may post some stuff that may be controversial, [/I]

I know my user name pisses you of. But don't blame me for buying a Harley. But if your gunna poke shit, you've got to b able to take it as well.

Controversial posting now that would be an absolute understatement regarding the sick stunt that you pulled of back in August with the sick posting of cats wrapped in glad wrap for sale at the Mad butchers. Dude you are one sick puppy. Maybe I should forward it to Peter. How would you like him to sue the pants of you for using his franchise name in a derogatory manner? Anyway on yer Harley sunshine and piss of. It is you that is the deranged, and angry, try some Prozac.

Now getting back on topic Why sell aftermarket pipes if they are going to be deemed illegal, well in NZ anyway.

scumdog

24th December 2007, 22:42

I feel the above poster will have the same career path of peasea, IdolIdleIdyll and others of similar ilk.....

Fatjim

24th December 2007, 22:58

Didn't know mememe had a career path. Do tell more.

Defiant

25th December 2007, 21:40

That's OK.. If it's standard it's OK whatever loudness. Yeah, I dunno what they were on when they wrote the law either, but whatever is was they seem to be able to get plenty of it. Y' just have to be able to prove their OEM standard (and not doctored)

Sorry to say but this is wrong....OEM pipes and exhaust dont make your bike legal under the new law....it states that, factory vehicles with factory fitted exhaust systems will still be subject to the new decibal levels and made compliant to the new levels. If the harley is over the 100 decibals with a OEM pipes you will be failed. even some new vehicles being brand new will not be legal under the new law str8 from the factory and will have to be modified to comply before they can be sold here....I know this Sux but what can you do??

so remember the decibal levels are as set REGARDLESS of factory systems or not.

Ixion

26th December 2007, 00:29

Sorry to say but this is wrong....OEM pipes and exhaust dont make your bike legal under the new law....it states that, factory vehicles with factory fitted exhaust systems will still be subject to the new decibal levels and made compliant to the new levels. If the harley is over the 100 decibals with a OEM pipes you will be failed. even some new vehicles being brand new will not be legal under the new law str8 from the factory and will have to be modified to comply before they can be sold here....I know this Sux but what can you do??

so remember the decibal levels are as set REGARDLESS of factory systems or not.

I think you may be confusing the rules about entry certification and those about in service testing (ie WoF).

All vehicles entering the country henceforth must meet the decibel limits set out. If they do not , even if the exhaust is standard, they will be rejected.(ie they will never getto be sold here)

But the situation is different for vehicles already in the country.

Here is the actual wording of the rule (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/docs/vehicle-equipment-amendment-2007.pdf)

“2.7(3A) The noise output from a standard or repaired exhaust system of a motor vehicle in Schedule 3 that is operated in service:
“(a) must be less than, or similar to, the noise output from the vehicle’s original exhaust system; or
“(b) must not exceed the applicable maximum decibel level for operation in service in Schedule 3, when tested in accordance with the Low Volume Vehicle Code (http://www.lvvta.org.nz/Noise%20Emissions%20Std030706.pdf).
“2.7(3B) The noise output from the exhaust system of any other motor vehicle must not be noticeably and significantly louder than it would have been when the vehicle was manufactured with its original exhaust system.

Note the "or" that I have highlighted. If the exhaust is standard it must not be (significantly - note "similar") louder than when new - whatever that loudness may be. Or pass the decibel limits.

If you are being told that in service original good condition OEM silencers (ie ones which are not noiser than when new) will fail WoF then I believe that you are being misinformed and I would be happy for BRONZ to seek official clarification

EDIT: From the LTSA Q&A

It is estimated that five percent of standard vehicles (approximately 130,000 vehicles in the New Zealand fleet) tested on the tail-pipe noise test are above 90dBA, but these standard vehicles will continue to be allowed to enter, and operate within, the New Zealand fleet, provided they have passed a recognised overseas noise standard and have not since been modified.

huck farley

26th December 2007, 08:51

As to Huck Farley.....merely an individual who doesnt yet have the grasp of the English language with enough skills to make his point wihtout resorting to that type of comment....his comments are mind over matter..i dont mind because his comments dont matter..

I beg to differ, I can see by your reaction that my comments do actually cause negative comments from you. But it's the old saying, and water of a ducks back to me. Sticks and stones blah blah blah mate.

You enjoy your HD, it has the same thing in common with the rest of us on here. That being, it has two wheels. I have some good cobbers that ride HD,s I often ride with them. So it's not the fact that HD's piss me of, and also heaps of other bikers.

It's the noise that the brainless few make with drag pipes on, it's not even a nice sound. It's just an ear shattering noise, likened to a jack hammer at full song.. You other HD riders should have a word in these clowns ear hole. As IMHO they are only drawing attention to the rest of you HD riders. Also the rest of the biker fraternity!!

Well that's my two penneth's worth. Now "you" to enjoy the rest of the break.
Cheers
Huck

McJim

26th December 2007, 10:27

So where do you stand if the outside of your muffler is standard but the inside has had the baffles changed?

I don't think it will exceed the 95 decibel limit though - what rpm do they test noise level at?

Motu

26th December 2007, 10:37

It's not what you think.it's what the guy doing the WoF thinks.Make sure he thinks your bike sounds just right and you'll be sweet.

Pixie

26th December 2007, 13:10

I see my new Hornet has a sticker saying at 4500rpms it is rated at 85db. My GS1200ss had a full Yoshi system rated at 94db - man that 9db is a lot of difference! About 90 would be sweet.

6 db = 2x the noise

Pixie

26th December 2007, 13:19

Pixie

26th December 2007, 13:23

huck farley

26th December 2007, 14:04

A stamping into the OEM exhaust end can reads TRIUMPH in a square box has the letter and numbers E11
Then goes on to say Quote: This Triumph exhaust system 2200372 meets US EPA noise emissions requirements of 80 db (A) for the following motorcycles SMT or MLN 750 1050
The installation of the system on motorcycles other than specified may violate federal law (unquote)

Now this is saying to me I cannot put this exhaust system on another bike less than 750cc or not above 1050cc

But it doesn't say that I can't replace it. I have a REMUS end can on it at the moment and it has a removable baffle. With the baffle out it is very noisy. But with it in is very quiet, and has a lovely note to the ear.
As I will be away on the bike when the yearly WOF runs out. I took the bike into a testing station to have the WOF renewed.

I sat in the waiting room whilst my bike went through. I got the nod to pick the bike up and I was issued with a new WOF the examiner said to me he loves the Moto GP look of my aftermarket can, and also commented how nice it sounded without being obnoxious. Wished me compliments of the season and I rode of a happy chappie. So as Defiant explains it all depends who you strike at the testing station on the day. And what mood he is in (I guess)

The other thing that I may or may not have been right to think was that the OEM system was passed for Europe and the USA. standards...But not the Southern hemisphere. I stand to be corrected on the latter paragraph.

I changed to a Remus as I have soft luggage and the OEM is a high system and would have burned my soft luggage. Plus I didn't go for the Triumph luggage as they wanted $2700 for the full set. Plus the panniers were to small anyway. The pannier on the exhaust side had a cut away moulding inside of it to accommodate the Muffler, and made it an even a smaller capacity.

huck farley

26th December 2007, 21:56

What about my Harley?, its standed mufflers don't baffle shit, its over 110 dba with standed mufflers:argh:

Think it may be struggle to pass the test, being a harley. As to many rotton apples may have spoiled it for you. Then again who knows who you are going to strike on the day. I think a Monday would be a bad day.

skidMark

27th December 2007, 01:41

Get a WOF from a bike shop...

Very fast you learn young padawon.

Defiant

27th December 2007, 19:54

I think you may be confusing the rules about entry certification and those about in service testing (ie WoF).

All vehicles entering the country henceforth must meet the decibel limits set out. If they do not , even if the exhaust is standard, they will be rejected.(ie they will never getto be sold here)

But the situation is different for vehicles already in the country.

Here is the actual wording of the rule (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/docs/vehicle-equipment-amendment-2007.pdf)

Note the "or" that I have highlighted. If the exhaust is standard it must not be (significantly - note "similar") louder than when new - whatever that loudness may be. Or pass the decibel limits.

If you are being told that in service original good condition OEM silencers (ie ones which are not noiser than when new) will fail WoF then I believe that you are being misinformed and I would be happy for BRONZ to seek official clarification

EDIT: From the LTSA Q&A

Nope im not confused....I should know i am the one who has to comply vehicles to the new standards........all vehicles registered pre 1985 are subject to the old levels of 95 decibals for light vehicles and motorcycles over 125cm3 are to stay at 100 decibals....ALL cars registered after 1985 whether they have a WOF or not will have to comply to the new 90 decibal limit along with all newly registered vehicles, Motorcycles will REMAIN UNCHANGED at 100 decibals....THE DECIBAL LIMIT FOR BIKES OF THAT SIZE AND OVER IS 100 DECIBALS and has not and will not change!......the if a new bike in over 100 decibals it will have to be made to comply.....ALL bikes new or old WILL have to comply.....LISTEN CLOSELY!!!.....in the past you just had to get a WOF, now if the WOF tester THINKS its too loud you WILL need to get it complied or have it tested to show that it is on or under the decibal level that may mean having the exhaust modified to comply with the 100 decibal level....even before the new law you still had the limit but stuff all testers bothered to worry bout it so long as they thought it was reasonable....if you get a WOF and dont have a cert for the exhaust a cop MAY and CAN make you get it tested to prove it is on or under the 100 decibal limit for big bikes......

Geeeeze....read the whole damn thing would you i know what the shit is i am in the position with a heaps of others here that have to put up with the shit from customers when they think their bikes are legal and then get made to go and have a test done just to prove it.....the other thing is bikes i know are over the limit and i am the one who fitted the damn exhaust now i got to say to them sorry its too loud.....it all sux sorry to say bt what can we do ?

Ixion

28th December 2007, 00:32

Nope im not confused....I should know i am the one who has to comply vehicles to the new standards........all vehicles registered pre 1985 are subject to the old levels of 95 decibals for light vehicles and motorcycles over 125cm3 are to stay at 100 decibals....ALL cars registered after 1985 whether they have a WOF or not will have to comply to the new 90 decibal limit along with all newly registered vehicles, Motorcycles will REMAIN UNCHANGED at 100 decibals....THE DECIBAL LIMIT FOR BIKES OF THAT SIZE AND OVER IS 100 DECIBALS and has not and will not change!......the if a new bike in over 100 decibals it will have to be made to comply.....ALL bikes new or old WILL have to comply.....LISTEN CLOSELY!!!.....in the past you just had to get a WOF, now if the WOF tester THINKS its too loud you WILL need to get it complied or have it tested to show that it is on or under the decibal level that may mean having the exhaust modified to comply with the 100 decibal level....even before the new law you still had the limit but stuff all testers bothered to worry bout it so long as they thought it was reasonable....if you get a WOF and dont have a cert for the exhaust a cop MAY and CAN make you get it tested to prove it is on or under the 100 decibal limit for big bikes......

Geeeeze....read the whole damn thing would you i know what the shit is i am in the position with a heaps of others here that have to put up with the shit from customers when they think their bikes are legal and then get made to go and have a test done just to prove it.....the other thing is bikes i know are over the limit and i am the one who fitted the damn exhaust now i got to say to them sorry its too loud.....it all sux sorry to say bt what can we do ?

I'm sorry. some of what you are saying is simply totally at variance with both what LTSA are saying, and what the Rule states. Either LTSA are wrong or you are wrong.

Specifically:

You say

ALL cars registered after 1985 whether they have a WOF or not will have to comply to the new 90 decibal limit along with all newly registered vehicles,

LTSA say (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/rules/q-and-a/vehicle-equipment-amendment-2007.html)

The following table lists the new objective tail-pipe noise test decibel limits:
Vehicle class............................................. .................................................. .......................dBA
Motorbikes with engine capacity of 125cm3 or less (classes LC, LD, LE).........................................96
Motorbikes with engine capacity of more than 125cm3 (classes LC, LD, LE)...................................100

Cars, 4x4s, light goods vehicles (classes MA, MB, MC and NA)
- if first registered in New Zealand before 1 June 2008.............................................. ..................95
- if first registered outside New Zealand before 1 January 1985
and first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 June 2008.............................................. ........95
- if first registered outside New Zealand on or after 1 January 1985
and first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 June 2008.............................................. .........90
- if a new vehicle first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 June 2008.......................................90

and

4. Why does the limit for cars, 4x4s and light goods vehicles already in the fleet remain at 95dBA?

The Rule targets the gross emitters – those exceeding 95dBA. The current 95dBA limit for vehicles already in the fleet is retained to minimise the impact on these vehicles – the vast majority of which are already compliant. The Rule brings a reduction in overall fleet noise over time by reducing the limit to 90dBA for post-1985 vehicles entering the fleet.

That is quite clear. The 1985 bit refers ONLY to new entrants. The limit for any car registered in NZ before I June 2008 REMAINS at 95dB (there is no similar clause for existing fleet motorcycles, because, as you note, the limit for motorcycles is not changing)

With my BRONZ hat on, I am very concerned that compliance staff are at variance with LTSA public statements (and the LTSA statements appear to me to agree with the Rule). I will take the matter up officially with LTSA in the new year, when they return. With a view to having them correct thier official statements (if you are correct), or memorandumise compliance testers to clarify the requirements(if LTSA are correct)

Defiant

28th December 2007, 07:40

No confusion here iXION, we are but refering to different parts of the rule.

IE: - if first registered outside New Zealand before 1 January 1985
and first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 June 2008.............................................. ........95
- if first registered outside New Zealand on or after 1 January 1985
and first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 June 2008.............................................. .........90- if a new vehicle first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 June 2008.......................................90

The debate was originally about the harley's being louder than 100 decibals from standard with standard pipes(which most are not). If it was louder than 100 decibals from factory it would not have passed the test before the new law came in anyway, but usually got passed on the ear of the tester at the time of the WOF, so my argument originally was that the individual doing the WOF has the power to cost you $$ for a decibal test on a bike may very well pass and therefore a waste of $$ to the end customer, thus if you have a harley or any other bike of similar size that was thought to be legal regardless when it was registered it still has to comply with the 100 decibal limit. This has nothing to do with the OEM pipes being modified or not. If a new exhaust is fitted to the bike the new exhaust must not be noticably louder than the original assuming that the original was on or under the decibal limit but still has to meet the 100 decibal limit.

I can see that i should have been clearer and not mixed my comments between cars and bikes. I have two bikes of my own that i know won't pass both being around the 104 & 114 decibals and i have no intention to change them, when the time comes to deal with that problem when that time comes.

The addition to my argument was that if the fitter of such an exhaust thought it sounded OK, AND the wof station thought it was ok you got the wof.......NOW all the bikes we complied back then MAY have to be tested just to see if it passes, cause if a wof is issued and the bike gets pulled over the next day by a cop he MAY/CAN still send the bike to be tested anyway, if it doesnt pass we get pinched, and if it was a bike modified before the law we have to deal with the....." well you guys said it was ok all these other times!!!.....what are you gonna do bout it?" type shyt from the customer....From now on we intend to tell all customers that all new exhausts if the new exhaust is not a bolt on replacement for a factory system that we know will comply we will be charging and quoting for a compulsory decibal test.

huck farley

28th December 2007, 08:30

Conquiztador

28th December 2007, 20:18

I had a look/read of this thread from since I did my initial post. And surprised re the postings. Why all the venting and venom on here? There is new laws passed monthly. Some will affect us more, some less. But they are here to stay. The lowering of noise is just part of the green image we are supposed to all embrace.

Count your self lucky re the dB levels in NZ for bikes. 100dB is not bad! There is countries in Europe where 85dB is max. And if you are caught riding a bike w/o a sticker on the pipes stating that they have been tested and are legal, your bike is off the road, plates gone, you have a fine and an addition to your demerits. Add to that a full re-Rego with all that it includes.

Again: When you get stopped on the road by the police and they are unhappy with your mufflers (or lack of..) and demand you get a new WOF, do what we have always done in the northern countries: Fit a set of quiet mufflers, ride to the station, get your WOF and you are on your way. Allow for 2 - 5 times a year. Part of biker life. (Same ones you got the WOF with in first place...)

But surely not worth getting pissed off with other bikers for???

Ocean1

28th December 2007, 20:31

But surely not worth getting pissed off with other bikers for???

Well I, for one, don't have a problem with other bikers. But I'm sure pissed about some fucker telling me how to live. Again.

Is it time to break out the 12 guage yet?

Defiant

29th December 2007, 07:19

Again: When you get stopped on the road by the police and they are unhappy with your mufflers (or lack of..) and demand you get a new WOF, do what we have always done in the northern countries: Fit a set of quiet mufflers, ride to the station, get your WOF and you are on your way. Allow for 2 - 5 times a year. Part of biker life. (Same ones you got the WOF with in first place...)

But surely not worth getting pissed off with other bikers for???

Exactly what i intend to do but didnt wanna say it....lol...cause i do EVERYTHING by the book!.....like most of them here....LMAO

:whocares::whocares::whocares: if we followed EVERY law in the book we would probably have a boring existence and not have a dog called sue, take a crap on sunday, or some shyte like that......lol

There are some stupid laws out there and this just adds to them, if they wanted to clean NZ up they could start but making it compulsory for all suburbs to use wheelie bins instead of leaving half torn dog attacked rubbish bags on the street.....

huck farley

29th December 2007, 16:00

It is a good idea, annoying that you are going to piss customers off by saying they need to get it tested only to find out its perfectly legal. Extra expensive they have to shell out for. At least its only once I guess.

What happens when you meet another bloke next time around at the testing station. He says it's not legal. "to loud".

But, but, but, Sir I have this paper to say it is legal. It may have been then son, but I think it's been tampered with. So no WOF until It's been tested again....... Now this bull shit could be ongoing.

A bit like years ago we used to swap tyres with a mate who had good tyres to get a WOF after we got one. We would put the bald ones back on the car. But when pulled over by a cop. That WOF meant nothing. We just used to get booked for running around on tyres that didn't have sufficient tread depth....

HRT

2nd January 2008, 09:01

Fair point about exhausts being tampered with, tyres not the best thing to compare to since they are an item that wears but I see your point.

The proposal for the car exhausts being certified was actually a picture of the exhaust system and some details about what was fitted to the vehicle at the time of certifying. Maybe cans on bikes are going to have to be stamped with a matching serial number to the cert or something similar to prove they are the right system for the cert?

Easy answer, don't go to VTNZ :)

Defiant

3rd January 2008, 10:21

.......Maybe cans on bikes are going to have to be stamped with a matching serial number to the cert or something similar to prove they are the right system for the cert?

The stamp is what they intend to do but tell you one thing and all the guys here with there cert hats on........NO C@%T is gonna be stamping my cans, $2500 S/S system, I'll be stamping their fore head if thhey pull that shyt. Im gonna be swapping for a crap system if it gets tested. I wonder if the dicks down in parliment would mind if i stamp their flash campany cars with TAX PAYER OWNED! across the bonnet!.....:argh::argh::argh:

huck farley

3rd January 2008, 18:36

The stamp is what they intend to do but tell you one thing and all the guys here with there cert hats on........NO C@%T is gonna be stamping my cans, $2500 S/S system, I'll be stamping their fore head if thhey pull that shyt. Im gonna be swapping for a crap system if it gets tested. I wonder if the dicks down in parliment would mind if i stamp their flash campany cars with TAX PAYER OWNED! across the bonnet!.....:argh::argh::argh:

Good call mate. No bastard will be stamping my exhaust system either!!

xwhatsit

4th January 2008, 14:34

Another Harley owner that hates me, (sigh) never mind, I can handle it. Be safe and have a happy and prosperous new year to you RDJ

Honda rider sez: I think you're a twat too :lol:

____

Like anything else, it all comes down to enforcement. I've got clip-ons instead of normal bars (through triple-clamp bar clamp thingies). Against the rules. WoF tester thinks the welds are good -- and he used to have a 250RS with a 500 motor when he was a youngster. So I get a pass.

There was a Vespa running up and down Parnell Rd last night (or the night before?) with a guy and a girl with no helmet. On the footpath. No headlight. Police car drove past and kept on going.

I think most people who are being reasonable (if in the grey area of the law) will continue to find ways around the law. What worries me is what you see on a larger scale in the US with things like the PATRIOT Act. Slow, small changes, but that eventually add up to grievous erosions of personal choice. If they continue to make small changes like this, individually they're nothing to worry about, but they add up.

huck farley

4th January 2008, 21:58

Honda rider sez: I think you're a twat too :lol:

.

Me thinks that the Honda rider is a bigger twat!!

FJRider

4th January 2008, 22:39

None. The objective noise test must be done by a LVV certifier approved for that purpose. Normal WoF places can't do it.

There are a grand total of two (yep, two) such certifiers for the Auckland district. Expect lonnnnngggggg wait times!

If the WOF tester thinks your bike is over the noise limit,it will have to be proved by YOU is not. THUS YOU get it tested,at your cost, AND no WOF untill you do.
Bike shops will have to be seen to OBEY the reg's, or testing authorisation would be cancelled.

Motu

4th January 2008, 22:55

Yep - first AVI that gets dragged through the vat of acid because he passed a system that was later found to be too loud will start a domino effect.That means no one will pass a remotely non standard system.You hold the key.Use your brains.

sAsLEX

5th January 2008, 10:57

FJRider

5th January 2008, 11:20

Keep the standard system for WOF time!

Yep. or put the baffles back in.

Ocean1

5th January 2008, 15:59

Yep. or put the baffles back in.

Which, (I understand) have to be welded in.

Good eh?

huck farley

20th January 2008, 08:39

I have a Remus aftermarket on my triple. Sounds sweet. Went for my first wof But before I did I slipped the removable baffle in. took me 5 minutes. (No welding at all. It is retained by a huge cir clip) The removable baffle reduces the note by a good 50% as a result my can never even raised an eyebrow. And my bike just flew through.

Mitre ten will selling a heap of chicken wire as one bloke commented on as a solution to quieter exhausts. But those Idiots that drilled the original pipes out on their swines, will need more than chicken wire to shut em up!! HD (hand over your dollars) will be rubbing their hands together as a few new exhausts will be sold!!

homer

20th January 2008, 10:34

when i got my bike it dont have any original pipes just the scorpion
hey not my problem , just got a wof yeaserday and nothing even said about to much noise

I dont think its to loud anyways

Ocean1

20th January 2008, 13:36

Which, (I understand) have to be welded in.

Good eh?

I slipped the removable baffle in. took me 5 minutes. (No welding at all. It is retained by a huge cir clip)

If the new regulations state that all baffles must be welded in place sooner or later you'll get a failed WOF, whether the circlip was standard issue or not.

scumdog

20th January 2008, 14:03

Mitre ten will selling a heap of chicken wire as one bloke commented on as a solution to quieter exhausts. But those Idiots that drilled the original pipes out on their swines, will need more than chicken wire to shut em up!! HD (hand over your dollars) will be rubbing their hands together as a few new exhausts will be sold!!
MY 'mufflers'?

As mentioned, a stock Harley muffler with the tapered end section cut off and a tasty stainless end cap held in place with equally tasty stainless button-head allen bolts (Take not of that McJim!).

No chicken wire, no 'packing', no 'removable baffles' - just a hollow can.

No problem with a WOF - the tester even said it was quieter than half the Buells he tested.

Ocean1

20th January 2008, 16:02

No problem with a WOF - the tester even said it was quieter than half the Buells he tested.

Trouble is SD, if any tester or any cop decides it's "too noisy" then under the proposed rules they can require you to have the system certified. At your cost, compliant or not. And perhaps again next week.

Now, if the "complainant"/tester/constabulary responsible for the order to test the system was also responsible for the cost of the certification maybe I'd think it was a better piece of legislation.

talicachick

7th April 2008, 10:43

You don't have to be Einstein to work out that the idiots riding Harley's with straight pipes, have fucked it up for everyone.

When will these no brainers wake up. First thing they do when they buy a new piece of shit Harley, is to put a fukn great drill up the pipes. So now they have this shimmering, shaking, jack hammer, piece of gutless, shiney, shit roaring it's heads of, the fact still remains that they are a gutless heap of shit, that wouldn't pull a soldier of your sister.

OK, now that they have pissed everyone of, with the racket they make. The law makers are bringing in new laws that fuck it for everyone.

Harley owners want shooting with a ball of their own shit. IMO
grrrrrrrrr!!
Huck Farley

Not all harley owners look at switching pipes. I have factory pipes on mine and have a sweet sound. I do agree ther open straight pipes sound like a piece of shit, and are just feckin noise for noise sake and a real look at moie attitude. Dont group us all in the same boat huck cos some of us just get harleys cos they are what we like to ride.. it dosent matter what ppl ride we all enjoy it. Just some ruin it for everyone... id rather not be shot wit a wad of my own shit thanks..