Evil Forces are Gathering

[Paul in NZ]

sigh

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3085560a11,00.html

Bloody boy racers ruining it for the rest of us (ah hem)

Paul N

[SPORK]

Bloody boy racers ruining it for the rest of us (ah hem)



Yep... It is about time that someone gets into the beehive from this site and lays the smack down. The rules are heavily leaned towards cages, so why not have a good guy in the hornets nest?

PS, by Forces of Evil, I though you were talking about Bush 'winning' the elections again :Offtopic: :doh: :stupid: :eyepoke: :thud: :angry: :blank: :sly: (all the slightly relavent ones in the box I could find :)

[manuboy]

Paul, its Par For The Course man.

You're looking at one issue here (and one i agree with you on), but basically the phrase "they're gonna ruin it for us all" just sums up the flowon effect that you get from the fact we are all governed by laws.

Many people. One Law. Greatest good and all that.

I agree that the concept that one group can induce changes to a law or policy that results in another group suffering SUCKS, but is there another solution? You'd have to change one of the pillars of our society yeah? The only choice you have in practical terms as far as i can see, is to stop the law from being created (i don't know what that involves), or you don't adhere to it.

I have a Yoshi exhaust. If they make it unlawful to have that, i don't know what i'll do yet. It doesn't annoy anybody. as far as i know.

I KNOW i won't remove it. So i may just ride without a warrant (may as well flick the rego as well!).. i dunno yet. I'll wait till it happens. I know i'd prefer to obey the laws they make, however misguided or irrelevant... but in this case..... hmmmmmmm....

[Hitcher]

Boy racers. Noisy exhausts. Automatic transmissions.

I just don't get it. A noise-liberating exhaust system that makes your car or bike sound good is at its best when you can really make the engine sing i.e. at the higher end of the rev range. Why then put such a thing on an auto, where the transmission never lets you wind the engine out? Or where it changes up and down constantly under load/no load, making an exhaust-modified vehicle moo like a lovelorn yak rather than howl like a cut banshee?

It's obviously a small penis thing.

[vifferman]

I have a Yoshi exhaust. If they make it unlawful to have that, i don't know what i'll do yet. It doesn't annoy anybody. as far as i know.Easy. Just get a 'spud' made up to quieten it for the WOF testing. If it's objective, then it's easy. Quieten it down sufficiently to pass the NoiseOMeter test, then whip it out again. It's the subjective testing that makes it harder, as you get crazy stuff like some power-crazed, bureaucratic ex-mechanic arbitrarily failing you for an unquantifiable "it's too loud".

The GoKart just failed its WOF, becuase being an import from that backwoods UK place, it has some corrosion of the brake pipes and fuel pipes on its underbelly. The mechanic, when quizzed, admitted it was 'discretionary', due to the interpretation of whether the degree of corrosion made it potentially unsafe or not. Fair enough, Better Safe Than Sorry, Peas in a Pod Gather a Rolling Stone, and all that.
So, because said mechanic wasn't "equipped to do the work here", I went Elsewhere. The car is still Elsewhere, having been there all day yesterday, and having had nearly all the brake pipe lines replaced (including the ones the mechanic didn't mark with his big yellow crayon), the fuel lines removed and (hopefully) refabricated and replaced (if they can get their Pipe Bender Thingo to work proper), the gas tank taken out and replaced, the wheels taken off, the zorst pipe cut off and rewelded (hopefully), the lined bled and then re-bled after I noted the front pipes were corroded more worserer than the ones yellow-crayoned and insisted they replace those too....
Hopefully, I'll get it back today, after I empty my wallet into their coffers...
Then I can ride my bike again, instead of the UsedJapHeap'O'Shit I've got as a loaner car (grudging apologies to anyone who has a Toymotor Sillycar and actually likes it...)

[vifferman]

Boy racers. Noisy exhausts. Automatic transmissions.
I just don't get it. Me neither, Mr Hitcher.
Shall we saddle the hobbyhorses?

[Paul in NZ]

Me neither, Mr Hitcher.
Shall we saddle the hobbyhorses?

nah! Not yet. Wait until I get all the windmills set up and the tilting sticks out of the cupboard.

[Blakamin]

I wish you guys could be here at 10am when our resident muppet goes to smoko in his primera... stock cept zorst, subbies, racing seats and a bit of mesh he found on the side of the road and put over his grill.
oh...and cheap mags and the mandatory loss of suspension
It sounds remarkably like a big 2 stroke (or a wet fart)

Was funny when he thought he could drive off "real fast" and hit a wall before getting out of the car park! (was funnier coz he was bragging about this move 1 minute before and there was 20 people watching)

might have to take photos tomorrow! :laugh:

[rodgerd]

sigh

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3085560a11,00.html

Bloody boy racers ruining it for the rest of us (ah hem)



Be fair, it's not just the boy racers. What about the Twats on Harleys.

Granted, it's safer to give a boy racer a swift kick up the arse than one of those straight-pipe Harley riders with a pretty picture on his jacket...

[James Deuce]

I've just prepared my self for this.

I managed to score some standard TRX mufflers, with nice gold coloured covers of trade me for $75.

They'll go on for warrants and then the other standard TRX mufflers will go back on. The chrome ones that seem to weigh a little less than the "new" standard ones that is. :)

[manuboy]

I wish you guys could be here at 10am when our resident muppet goes to smoko in his primera... stock cept zorst, subbies, racing seats and a bit of mesh he found on the side of the road and put over his grill.
oh...and cheap mags and the mandatory loss of suspension
It sounds remarkably like a big 2 stroke (or a wet fart)

Was funny when he thought he could drive off "real fast" and hit a wall before getting out of the car park! (was funnier coz he was bragging about this move 1 minute before and there was 20 people watching)

might have to take photos tomorrow! :laugh:

:killingme :killingme :killingme :killingme

There's a guy (don't know him personally) who works out at Air New Zealand maintenance - he has a primer grey 1990 Ford TELSTAR (!!!!) stock standard, except for an "airfoil" he made in his own time in the carbon fibre shop.

The top of the foil is just below his roof line as far as i can remember. The guys tried to tell him it would have no effect unless he was doin 230km/h plus..which was slightly beyond what the telstar would achieve (unless it was falling off a cliff). Well.. it did have an effect, everybody thought he was a complete cock.

But anyway... to tie in with the thread, he had a stock exhuast... :no:

[Blakamin]

Be fair, it's not just the boy racers. What about the Twats on Harleys.

Dunno about you, but i'd be lucky to see 2 H-D's a day... cant even count the boy racers that go passed here.... would have to be a couple of hundred

[HanaBelle]

Paul, its Par For The Course man.

Many people. One Law. Greatest good and all that.

....

The thing is, its the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number [AND the Stoopidist Common Denominator], so the thing to do is get more smart intelligent and on to it bikers on the road. Outnumber the cages, or at least swamp your friendly politicans with letters of complaint quoting relative energy use, road user expenses (less weight, less tarmac wear)...and overall smarter and smaller environmental footprint...add to that raising their awareness of the social capital gains of being a biker - ie improved sense of local body responsibility (know the roads and pay attention to the road surface), awareness of other human beings in your social "road", risk and cautionary assessment skills, and the patented Kiwibiker Superior Responsibility Taking...

hmm, this is getting to be fun..what are other motorbike skills translated to social zen positives and included in letters to politicans? How about: we contribute to raising the country's knowledge economy innovation skills when we extrapolate the motorbike skill of knowing when to NOT sit in a line of baaing sheep traffic...

A friend of mine is standing for goobermint, I will formally harass him endlessly on behalf of motorbikes from now on and abandon all other social issues forthwith. Prolly improve our relationship, come to think on it. :love:

[Edit Addition: This is not about exhausts so I apologise and will try transferring it to another thread...unless someone else can?]

HanaBanana

[Coldkiwi]

ahh yes, the great muddying of the waters on exhaust noise is here again.

From the stuff article:
"An Australian study into the cost of traffic noise on the community – completed when Australia was amending its vehicle-noise legislation – estimated a mid-term benefit of tougher noise levels would be worth $A2 billion"

has anyone thought to mention that the Aussie study took into account tyre noise as well? Forget the exhausts, if you want to make the motorway quieter, look at the tyres and make transit put some decent bloody seal down!! Cheap buggers never put down the good stuff.

I think this Kissling bloke is on the right track to be honest. If there's an objective goal post of so many dB(A) then at least people can design and test for it without wasting their cash. Mind you, from the other noise legislation I've seen proposed in this country (anyone else see the BIA review on apartment noise?? They're as stupid as the LTSA) any objective limits will be way too low anyway (just like the police guidelines out at the moment that would fail even stock vehicles)

I still hold out hope that one day, society might actually get some vague form of a clue about acoustics... but i doubt it.

[riffer]

They'll go on for warrants and then the other standard TRX mufflers will go back on. The chrome ones that seem to weigh a little less than the "new" standard ones that is. :)

Heavy stuff, those nasty baffles... weigh the bike down and reduce performance.

Good score on the new mufflers. Lucky someone was bored and trawling the net that day, I reckon.
:whistle:

[JohnBoy]

.
They'll go on for warrants and then the other standard TRX mufflers will go back on. The chrome ones that seem to weigh a little less than the "new" standard ones that is. :)

i have done that too, just brought a full arrow race exhaust for my Zed cause it was cheap (but mainy cause i crashed the other week :angry2: ).
if i get pulled over by the FUZZ im just gonna say its standard, dont think hes gonna argue.

[rodgerd]

I think this Kissling bloke is on the right track to be honest. If there's an objective goal post of so many dB(A) then at least people can design and test for it without wasting their cash.


Indeed. I dislike the subjective tests - too easy for someone who hs it in for bikes/boy racers/whatever to just fail you, and no way to challenge.




Mind you, from the other noise legislation I've seen proposed in this country (anyone else see the BIA review on apartment noise?? They're as stupid as the LTSA) any objective limits will be way too low anyway (just like the police guidelines out at the moment that would fail even stock vehicles)


Yeah, it does seem insane. Apartments are near and dear to my heart as a Wellingtonian - I'm sick of shitheads who move into town and try to get everything closed down because "I have a right to not hear any noise after 10 on a Friday night'.

[HanaBelle]

Yep... It is about time that someone gets into the beehive from this site and lays the smack down. The rules are heavily leaned towards cages, so why not have a good guy in the hornets nest?

PS, by Forces of Evil, I though you were talking about Bush 'winning' the elections again :Offtopic: :doh: :stupid: :eyepoke: :thud: :angry: :blank: :sly: (all the slightly relavent ones in the box I could find :)


Heyyyyyy theres a lot of those lil guys with signs in here {duped}

:-))))

H

[Skyryder]

Bottom line: there's more quiet cars, than noisy cars: there's more cars than bikes. Decibil tests as part of the warrent is going to come becasue there are not enough of us to stop it. Period.

Personaly I would like to see a decibel test on car stereo's. I've been waiting at lights in the bus and a car pulls up along side and the radio is that loud the bus vibrates. And that's the truth.

Skyryder

[pipeman]

Just a short word where are they going to test these noisey exhausts?
Don't think it will happen unless they spend $$$$$$ on quiet rooms to stop outside interference noise from normaly the WOF stations. Do you think they will go "Quiet everyone we are doing a noisey test" :yeah:
No sir don't thing so :rockon:

[Motu]

A noise test is going to be too hard - the easiest way is to make sure the muffler complies with a known standard,this will be stamped on the muffler....and if it's not there,well,you're just outa luck sonny.

[FROSTY]

sorry guys but it seems some of the testing stations already have dba meters

[SPman]

sorry guys but it seems some of the testing stations already have dba meters Its one thing having a DBa meter....its another knowing how to use it properly!

[Motu]

I've got one - your bike will fail,I don't care what you've got it will fail.

[Blakamin]

A noise test is going to be too hard - the easiest way is to make sure the muffler complies with a known standard,this will be stamped on the muffler....and if it's not there,well,you're just outa luck sonny.
Hope they go the european standard... mines already stamped...
shame its noisier than my CBR with a bafflectomy :o

[James Deuce]

Hope they go the european standard... mines already stamped...
shame its noisier than my CBR with a bafflectomy :oYou might be really surprised to find it's quieter overall. With a twin you have transient peaks, where a 4 has a more constant noise level. It's like the difference between an unamplified drumkit and a cello played at forte. The drumkit appears louder to the casual listener because of the transient nature of the sound level peaks, where in fact the cello is generating more sound pressure.

Bike's are really noisy overall because of the exposed nature of their mechanical parts. Cars are relatively easy to make quiet, by concentrating on engine bay and transmission noise. As someone has mentioned though, tyre noise on coarse chip can be really nasty.

[MikeL]

And when, I wonder, will my neighbour's lawnmower be required to have an approved muffler and not exceed 75 or 80db or whatever level is considered an appropriate threshhold?

[James Deuce]

And when, I wonder, will my neighbour's lawnmower be required to have an approved muffler and not exceed 75 or 80db or whatever level is considered an appropriate threshhold?
I don't know, but I really want an expansion chamber for my weed whacker. Then I could clear trees. At 5am on Sundays.

[vifferman]

I see the aforementioned report has made The Harold this morning.

I was walking down the street, concentrating on truckin' right... when a bus took off from the bus-stop (and it was bigger and louder than 10cc). Man, it was fookin' loud. Yet as far as I know, buses and trucks are exempt from noise and emissions testing, right? Which makes the whole thing a bit bogus.

After I bought my (bafflectomied) FahrtSturm, I took it into a coupla places to see what they'd say about its chances of passing a WOF. Kerry at Motohaus just said, "Nup. And I won't pass anything with "Race Use Only" stamped on it, nor any {can't remember the brand}". At NTNZ or VINZ or whatever, I left the bike idling, and asked the tester dude/dick/halfwit what he thought. He just stood there, apparently comatose, for about 30 seconds, then bent down and wiped the road spooge off the top of the muffler, to reveal the Murkn "Complies with 90dB standard blah blah" stamp. Went back into a coma for another half minute or so, gave the throttle a blip, wet himself, coma again, then moved his head a little to look at the rear of the muffler.
"This endcap's been cut out. You're not allowed to modify the muffler."
"So.... will it pass?"
"Nup. See - it says here it passes the test. But someone's modified it. That's not allowed."

I think all the 'preganant pauses' (i.e., comatose interludes) were Mr Testerman enjoying his wee moment of power. Pffffft. :bleh: It didn't work for me.

So the FahrtungSturmer has been for one (1) WOF test since then, with its spuds/plugs/pacifiers/shihads and didn't raise an eyebrow.
It's still louder'n stock, quieter than when I bought it, louder than when I fitted the spuds/plugs/pacifiers/shihads, not quite tuneful enough to sound as a V-twin should, quiet enough not to attract unwelcome attention, and looks (at a cursory glance) to be stock.
If it fails future tests, I can easily quieten it down, temporarily or otherwise, or fit more acceptable zorsts.

It raises an interesting question though: If a zorst is stamped with the approval thingo, then modified, but passes some 'objective' test, will it satisfy the bureaucrats, or will they word any regulations so as to effectively continue to be open to interpretation and therefore subjective?

[Blakamin]

I

It raises an interesting question though: If a zorst is stamped with the approval thingo, then modified, but passes some 'objective' test, will it satisfy the bureaucrats, or will they word any regulations so as to effectively continue to be open to interpretation and therefore subjective?
Very interesting... mine is of the Duc variety that could be repacked by drilling out some rivets so any prick at VTNZ can get screwed... it passed a WoF the day I bought it!

[Coldkiwi]

Its one thing having a DBa meter....its another knowing how to use it properly!


Oh so true!! And I wonder whether LTSA will be providing suitable training for WOF inspectors? Not sodding likely eh Motu?

a sound proof room isn't really needed for doing an exhaust because they putout plenty of noise anyway but the trick is to educate the guy doing the reading so he knows whats going to bugger the reading and whats not.

On the 'exposed mechanical parts' idea, funnily enough I was driving the car on the m'way in the weekend and a guy on a Triumph Sprint rolled passed at around 100kmhr. I rolled the window down to get a listen of the lovely triple but all I could hear was the blimmin chain screaming away. I've never noticed that before when riding (presumably because of the wind roar around my helmet) but I found it a very interesting observation.

[Hitcher]

I rolled the window down to get a listen
Interesting behaviour that I have observed from several cage drivers who, when seeing me start to overtake, have wound down their window and stuck their heads out as I've gone past (I usually change down a couple of cogs to enhance their experience). Is this the same thing as that aural sex I've heard so much about??

[Cleve]

just don't get it. A noise-liberating exhaust system that makes your car or bike sound good is at its best when you can really make the engine sing i.e. at the higher end of the rev range. Why then put such a thing on an auto, where the transmission never lets you wind the engine out? Or where it changes up and down constantly under load/no load, making an exhaust-modified vehicle moo like a lovelorn yak rather than howl like a cut banshee?


Ah yes but with my wife's automatic GT Legacy (which I put a free'er breathing pipe on for when I have to drive it) you can change gears using the Auto shift and/or click the power button which does allow it to rev out!

Anyway don't want them to regulate against my Scorpion pipe on my SV. Love the sound.

Cleve

[Motu]

Oh so true!! And I wonder whether LTSA will be providing suitable training for WOF inspectors? Not sodding likely eh Motu?

a sound proof room isn't really needed for doing an exhaust because they putout plenty of noise anyway but the trick is to educate the guy doing the reading so he knows whats going to bugger the reading and whats not.


Heh,heh....right.Not only bikes,but all diesels will fail - obviously the industry standard Dickhead Smith meter is not very good for this test.Is there a better way to use it? Do I need an 8x4 sheet of ply with a hole for the pipe to poke out? It doesn't matter where you hold it,they pick up engine sounds as well...too close to the pipe to get away from other noises and we get a fail again.Is there a pick up I can fit to my digital scope? Interpreting a wave form has more value than watching a needle twitch or digital numbers tumble.

[Coldkiwi]

Heh,heh....right.Not only bikes,but all diesels will fail - obviously the industry standard Dickhead Smith meter is not very good for this test.Is there a better way to use it? Do I need an 8x4 sheet of ply with a hole for the pipe to poke out? It doesn't matter where you hold it,they pick up engine sounds as well...too close to the pipe to get away from other noises and we get a fail again.Is there a pick up I can fit to my digital scope? Interpreting a wave form has more value than watching a needle twitch or digital numbers tumble.


AHHH HA! You admit it! You speak logic! Confess!! Confess!! :bash:

Actually, handing out superflash meters with spectrum levels is probably not a good idea - it'd just confuse more people. A simple DBA reading that gives an average over the time the engine is run is fine (given the limitations of practical testing etc) so long as the operator knows what he's doing in terms of where he should stand and what could give a false reading so he can do something about it to get a good one.