Looking at upgrading to a 400

[Darryboy]

Hi Everyone,

I've decided to alter my original (legal) plan of getting a 600 once I received my full and am now wanting to upgrade to a 400 in about a month or two ('cough' for track use only of course).

Now I'm open to suggestion but I like the look of the VFR400 (esp this NC30?: http://www.bikepoint.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBikeID=507293&TabID=3553&Alias=bikepointnz )

I know I've already binned twice but both were from inexperienced braking practices which I've learned immensly from.

I feel if I do not upgrade soon I will become complacent from the lack off power because as it is I don't have to worry about throttle control unless it's wet or for some reason i'm on gravel.

The bike in the link above would be mega sweet but that relies on a bit more cash. Are the NC24's much of a step down (other than looks)?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?id=17718125

Opinions?

[Coldkiwi]

I'll let more knowledgeable people rave about the Honda's but I wouldn't worry about 'getting complacent with the throttle' issue for a while. With decent tyres on I actually have a hard time getting the rear end to break loose on my 600 in the dry and you just learn to expect it a little earlier in the wet (believe me, I do try!).
I'm sure your riding style will adjust to suit your bike whenever you decide to get more cc's so I don't think you need to be in any great hurry for that reason.

[Posh Tourer :P]

I feel if I do not upgrade soon I will become complacent from the lack off power because as it is I don't have to worry about throttle control unless it's wet or for some reason i'm on gravel.

If you want to learn about going fast,.....

Don't worry about upgrading. Theres a hell of a lot to learn besides throttle control, and if you arent as fast as TS on his 150, you've still got learning to do....
Once you get that fast, I'd say maybe its a good idea to get a bigger bike if you want to learn more.... In the mean time, follow more people and try to learn about pushing a small bike to keep up with the larger ones. It'll teach you one hell of a lot more than just blasting along on a bigger bike.

[sAsLEX]

and if you arent as fast as TS on his 150, you've still got learning to do....

that would describe most riders out there from 100 through to 1000cc riders
:scooter:

[Posh Tourer :P]

that would describe most riders out there from 100 through to 1000cc riders
:scooter:

Thats exactly my point.....

Lotsa learning to do on any bike....

Actually I'm probably exaggerating a bit cos "some" of what TS does (on the road) he describes as "stupid"..... I wouldnt advocate trying to go as fast as he does on that thing.... Not that I see much of it cos I'm always waaaay behind :blink:

[aff-man]

Go the 400's mate believe me you'll jump on a 600 and they are quite a bit bigger and not as easy to throw around. But yeh zxr's are the most powerfull of the 3 if you looking at the early 90's models but i think the vfr's handel better. (plus honda's break down every 5 mins aye KK :doh: :lol: )

[ALTRON]

Well I have had my NC30 for over years now and the only tech prob I ever had was the regulator/rectifier blowing out (this is a common problem with NC's. Apart for that its a really tough machine :) :2thumbsup

[Blakamin]

My cbr400 was a cool bike for throwing around.... (to the point that one of the mechanics where i traded it in has taken it over Pie-Cock a few times)
the rectifier had a few melted bits, but it worked!
i'm a bit nicer to the duc and glad i didnt got straight from my 250 to her or i woulda missed the honda fun factor!

[SPORK]

Is it very easy to switch from a 250 to a 600? I know that you should learn as much as possibl etc, etc... BUT, ONCE I acheive Oneness with the road and bike on my patented SoonToBeTwoFiftyButIAmStillWorkingOnTheFunds, would it be a rather SAFE leap to say, a CBR600RR? *DROOOOOL*

[2_SL0]

Im with Madcat on this I would like to know who has done the jump from 250 to 600. I plan to do this BUT Im happy to stick with the 250 for a good while until Im really comfortable before I move. I have along way to go yet. :spudbooge

[Two Smoker]

Hey Darryboy, yep a 400 is an awesome bike, and the power is very manageable after riding a 400... where jumping onto a 600 you get a very big fright from the first time you open the throttle fully (and this doesnt subside for quite a while.....) Where the 400 you still get a buzz from the power and you can still concentrate on what is happening..... where the 600 you have to think VERY fast....

Before you go out and grab a 400... try putting on some decent tyres on the GSX250..... You will be amazed at the difference.... Give that a couple of months and see what you think :niceone: then you should be ready for the jump to a 400....

If you have any questions about VFR's, ask KK as he has had a NC24, NC30 (and sort of has a NC35)....

[Two Smoker]

Im with Madcat on this I would like to know who has done the jump from 250 to 600. I plan to do this BUT Im happy to stick with the 250 for a good while until Im really comfortable before I move. I have along way to go yet. :spudbooge
The jump is quite large...... it depends on your riding style, if you want to be able to ride very quick and push the bike, then going to a 400 after the 250 would be better (unless your an awesome rider like CK)

But if you want the 600 for a bit of power when overtaking other vehicles on straights and not to push the bike to its limits a 600 is a good size..... The power is managable on a 600, but takes a little while to get used to...

Best bet is to get your full, ride a 400 and a 600 and see what you like... The only times when i wish i had more power on the 400 is when im going absolutely balls out on the road....

[k14]

Have you considered maybe going to a CBR250 or ZXR250. I had a VT250 and went to the CBR nearly a year ago and I still find it fun to ride. There was a big change from the more commuter aimed bike (eg VT250, similar to the GSX) to a sports bike. There was a big power difference aswell, although it is still very easy to control.

I've never ridden a 400 or 600 sports bike, so can't comment on that, but it is another option.

What licence are you on? Can you get your full soon?

[aff-man]

Have you considered maybe going to a CBR250 or ZXR250. I had a VT250 and went to the CBR nearly a year ago and I still find it fun to ride. There was a big change from the more commuter aimed bike (eg VT250, similar to the GSX) to a sports bike. There was a big power difference aswell, although it is still very easy to control.

I've never ridden a 400 or 600 sports bike, so can't comment on that, but it is another option.

What licence are you on? Can you get your full soon?

Hell yes when i went from thw vt250 to the zxr250 i couldn't believe how much faster / more power/ better handeling it had. the zxr begged to be riddn hard but the vt didn't :killingme :killingme

[aff-man]

Well I have had my NC30 for over years now and the only tech prob I ever had was the regulator/rectifier blowing out (this is a common problem with NC's. Apart for that its a really tough machine :) :2thumbsup

Hahahah yip had to try help this chick today walking her bike home (NC30). After trying to jump it (and a little investigation) i came to the conclusion that the reg/rec had gone poof. :killingme :mad: :killingme

[Hitcher]

i came to the conclusion that the reg/rec had gone poof.
Thanks to Fran Wilde that hasn't been an illegal act since 1986.

[Redstar]

There are 400's and there are 400's! some have less punch than a wet bus ticket, :mellow: and some make the average 600 look tame. : :blah: so lets take the CBR600 as a benchmark 600
thats a handy 60hp(for a basic restricted CBR) not a kitted CBRRR fang.
so if you go 400 there are only a few 400's that will excite you. Now I have studied this a bit and there are four jap imports to consider. In no particular order VFR400
ZXR400 and the Yamaha (YZXup)400 or the GXR400. the RF is to heavy.
now the GXR is the fastest but small looks like a 250 the rest are similar size.
the next fastest and most ps is the Kawa check out the F3 results its kawa zxr but its a very agressive bike and you have to be short and keen. the RF is too heavy forget it the plum is the VFR Honda for power and looks but personally I would get the Kawa zxr400 for raw fanging fun. 400'S are a very underated class. PS the suzuki350 goose new is cheap and worth a strangle if only 40hp its light and flickable

[TwoSeven]

I went from bigger bikes down to 600s then from that down to the cibby 250 which I enjoy emensly. I have my eye on a cibby400 (a black an teal one) that I shall get when I stop spending my dosh on everything else. After the 400 i'm planning on getting a cibby1k mainly because it will be the only one in the cibby range I havnt owned/ridden.

I personally find the vfr slightly too heavy - it reminds me of the old Revere (NTV600) we used to have - nice commuter. There are a lot more aftermarket bits for the vfr than the cibby which makes it easier to mod and tune up if you are into that - also means easier to get parts for if you break it somehow. I'd also avoid one if someone has chopped the end-can off as well - but thats just my preference - you can always pick up a complete system from a breakers and keep it for resale. I'd like to have a rvf400 at some stage (when I can find more garage space) but they seem a bit rare here (and most are probably lacking their rear wheels anyhow).

[ben444]

I'll probably have 3 400's for sale when I get back in the country next month.
CBR400 NC23 race bike $1900
RVF400 NC35 race bike, bit of a bitza but goes real well $2900
CBR400RR NC29 road bike, fireblade colours, very tidy $poa (I may have someone already to buy this, but not confirmed yet)

[Kwaka-Kid]

Darryboy... theres lots of thinking to do.
First - Redstar where did u find out the info on those bikes? as in my experience the GSXR is the biggest of the 400's in terms of leg room etc as the frame was based off the 750. The ZXR is next biggest and feel wide between he legs, dont have much of knee cutaways so they dont bother you.. and the VFR400 is the smallest, with deep knee cutaways in the tank that can aggravate you a little if you find it hard to get ur knees tucked in.

Handling? ZXR400 Wins above them all, its got the best suspension esp for track use - thought often critized for being a bit firm on the road. GSXR400 would possibly be second though im not entirely sure, definatly firmer then the Viffer put it that way (and thats the way i look at it) VFR - Pussy Soft honda suspension almost identical to that put on the NSR250, the front springs are just far too soft, but if you get a remote resivour showa rear shock (came with some VFR's) its much better then the other hardley adjustable rear shock that too came std with them.

Power? Yeah ZXR is certainly higher but hey they are still all 400's putting out near/around 60hp. Weight - ZXR and VFR is about the same, think the ZXR has 2-3 less KG stock.

Finally diff between NC24 and 30? Lots! Enough to make you not touch a 24 if you are seriously thinking about racing it.. the rims are much smaller so really only fit crossply tyres, only have 2 pot sliding caliper brakes vs 4 pot, seat is lower and bars are higher creating a "less race" riding position. the 24 has a 180 degree crank not 360, i think thats what gives it the lazier power curve - it doesnt make as much power as the 30 but it definatly has more of it down lower. They weigh a fair bit more then a 30. They handle worse then a 30, if you can imagine not the best suspension on a 30, then take away the adjustments you can make to them you had 24 suspension.
Rear wheel takes 4 bolts to get off on NC24 not just 1, and also the exhaust is on the same side as you take the wheel off on the 24 so it gets in the way - very smart thinking.

NC30's are incredibly reliable bikes as are 24's... if it was just for street use i would own a 24 again - lasier street sitting position and more of its power down low. They both suffer from the Reg/rec frying problem though at around 30,000km. But if you replace it with something big and nasty they never give you a problem again :) Also NC24's are easier to adjust tapets as its a posidrive adjuster you get at thru an inspection cap, 30's are underbucket shims.

[NC]

Oh I'm selling mine in 6 to 8 weeks :D

It's a 91, Aftermarket arrow system (sounds sexy as :love: ), new tyres, disc's, breaks, the glitch with the regulator/rectifier was fixed long ago. It's black and red (thems fast colours) It's getting a new paint job before I sell it so it'll look even more pretty :D
And has had a careful lady owner for the last 2 years :msn-wink:

[White trash]

Is it very easy to switch from a 250 to a 600?

Rgv250 to '98 GSXR750W when they were first released. No problems.

[aff-man]

There are quite a few zxr400 flooding the market at the moment probably due to all the new 600's coming out but yeh. They are the most powerfull of them all moohahahahahahaha. But i got warned off the gsxr400 for handeling reasons don't really know why but the viffer's are tiny compared with the zxr.

zxr's man :love: :love:

[Coldkiwi]

Is it very easy to switch from a 250 to a 600? I know that you should learn as much as possibl etc, etc... BUT, ONCE I acheive Oneness with the road and bike on my patented SoonToBeTwoFiftyButIAmStillWorkingOnTheFunds, would it be a rather SAFE leap to say, a CBR600RR? *DROOOOOL*

I went from an 89 ZXR250 to a 97 ZX6R ok (but forget test riding a 600 yourself because if you're anything like me you'll go gaga when you open the thottle, fall in love with it and completely miss any other faults!). Having thrashed the pants of the ZXR 250(sorry jono!) certainly helped me appreciate the 600's improvements (brakes, suspension, chassis etc have also moved on in the 8 years of development) because it wasn't just the lack of engine that I felt was limiting.
The ZX6 was a good bike to go to for me because its a little easier going than the gsxr (same would apply to a ZZR600, and pre 2002ish CBR600).

You need to be aware that its not just more power you get when going from an early 90's 250 to a late 90's or early millenium 600 because the whole competitive nature of the supersport category has really intensified over the last 6 years since all 4 Jap manufacturers have been trying to beat each other on the track with their proddy bikes. The end result now is that the 2004 ZX6R, GSXR600, CBR600RR and R6 are all nutter bikes with bloody twitchy handling and responsive throttles... and if you don't ride them smoothly they can bite you. But if you're smooth and not too aggressive when getting used to the bike you should be fine.

[Cajun]

I went from an 89 ZXR250 to a 97 ZX6R ok (but forget test riding a 600 yourself because if you're anything like me you'll go gaga when you open the thottle, fall in love with it and completely miss any other faults!). Having thrashed the pants of the ZXR 250(sorry jono!) certainly helped me appreciate the 600's improvements (brakes, suspension, chassis etc have also moved on in the 8 years of development) because it wasn't just the lack of engine that I felt was limiting.
The ZX6 was a good bike to go to for me because its a little easier going than the gsxr (same would apply to a ZZR600, and pre 2002ish CBR600).

You need to be aware that its not just more power you get when going from an early 90's 250 to a late 90's or early millenium 600 because the whole competitive nature of the supersport category has really intensified over the last 6 years since all 4 Jap manufacturers have been trying to beat each other on the track with their proddy bikes. The end result now is that the 2004 ZX6R, GSXR600, CBR600RR and R6 are all nutter bikes with bloody twitchy handling and responsive throttles... and if you don't ride them smoothly they can bite you. But if you're smooth and not too aggressive when getting used to the bike you should be fine.


i don't think the k4 600 is a twitchy bike, and not a total nutter bike

[MrMelon]

...careful lady owner :msn-wink:..
:killingme :)

[Cajun]

:killingme :)
you laugh at that one as well

it has new brake disc/pads so should stop onm a dime now tho

[Darryboy]

Thanks for the advice guys.

For those that wanted to know I am currently on my learners and sit my restricted in a couple of weeks. I'm only 21 but I'm going to see about the possiblity of sitting one of those fast forward courses.

I understand that there is alot more than just throttle control but there are a whole bunch of positives I see to upgrading to a 400. One of these being overtaking (esp. uphill) As this is quite a task on the GSX.

I did consider getting a more sports orientated 250 e.g. GSX-R but the legal for learners/restricted premium makes them the same if not more $ than a 400.

I am aware of the penalties of riding over 250cc and you may think it's stupid but I see the reward outweighing the risk (which I see as very slim).

:Offtopic: My poor GSX has to go to the shop as some nob from work that parks 4m behind my bike backed into the back of my bike causing it to fall on it's right side denting the tank and scratching fairings :weep: The fool was going way too fast for reversing in a carpark and was still pushing the bike after it fell over. The poor thing was shunted more than a metre. He'll pay! Gaddammit he'll pay! :angry2:

[Two Smoker]

I did consider getting a more sports orientated 250 e.g. GSX-R but the legal for learners/restricted premium makes them the same if not more $ than a 400.

I am aware of the penalties of riding over 250cc and you may think it's stupid but I see the reward outweighing the risk (which I see as very slim).

:angry2:
Just remember because you are on your learners/restricted you can't get insurance for your 400, so in essence it isnt the same amount as the 250's insurance...

I still say get some mint tyres for the GSX and see what she can really do in the corners.... also maybe get some velcro sewed onto your leathers and try moving around on the bike.... Then look at getting a 400.........

[k14]

Just remember because you are on your learners/restricted you can't get insurance for your 400, so in essence it isnt the same amount as the 250's insurance...

Yeah that was the main point behind me not getting a 400 and getting my CBR. Just think if you cause an accident and write off a $70000 BMW you are screwed repaying that for a long long time. Now I bet that reward doesn't outweigh the disadvantages. (sorry if i sound like your mum)

Anyways, hope you make the right decision. You should be able to get your full within 12 months of getting your restricted, depending on what course you do and how much $$$ you want to pay.

[sAsLEX]

yeah even though i may be riding around on a 400 at the mo, which I dont find too uch heavier than the CBR for whoever said they thought they were heavy a personall thing I suppose, I am constantly thinking about the cost of some guys BMW and the reatiiveely sp? amount of crap I would be in if I binned it!

So I have decided to bite the bullet and go back to a 250 for the remainder of the restricted I have left, well after having the 400 for a bit more, and ride with the assurance that I have the backing of insurance and the law riding within the license restrictions.

[SPORK]

Hey, Darryboy, what do you think of the GSX250? I saw one near Masterton the other day, looked great! Power wise, how ka pai is it?

And WT, RGV250 to GSXR750W? Sounds like a step down :msn-wink: Damn them two smokers, scaring me :)

[James Deuce]

First up, I'm get sick of all you people making me look like a grumpy old arsehole.

Secondly, and please read and consider this seriously. I don't think you should step outside the terms of your license restriction.

Why? I absolutely loved RG Suzuki's when I started riding. I went from a RG250 to a RG400 while still on my restricted, for much the same reasons as you. I got really, really cocky. I went on a bike club poker run and took my wife on the back, thoroughly flouting the restriced condition of my license. I fell off, along with a much more experienced rider, on diesel spilt on the road next to a bus stop. I broke my wife's ankle in two places (bimalleolar fracture) badly enough to require pinning and risked permanent crippling damage. The Police attended the accident due to the ambulance being called. How did I get away with it? I have no idea. I think the cop knew I was in more crap with my wife than anything the court system could do, and that I was in more crap with myself still. He wrote me up, then tore it up, pulled me round the front of the ambulance and gave me the most humiliating reaming I've ever had. If he hadn't been human I would have been facing careless driving causing injury, ignoring the conditions of my restricted license, and I would have lost my license, my job, and probably my self respect.

Go ahead and do it if you want, but ego and desire are poor comfort when it all turns to effluent.

[2_SL0]

Im afaird Im going to sit out the learner/restricted on the 250. But at this point I will jump to a 600 when Im ready and have a full licence. But I really want to get to the limit on the 250 and feel it has nothing left to offer before I move. The next bike I buy will be a keeper so it will be a careful decision. Due to circumstances its 99 % going to be a Yamaha and I am particularily fond of the R6. All in good time. No need to rush these things. Just how much of a beast is a R6. Im use to stroppy 2 stroke dirt bikes. Just getting use to the big differences from dirt to road, and they are BIG differences, hehehe. :spudwave:

[Two Smoker]

Nup Jim your not a grumpy old arsehole..... you just give us the otherview (generally because you have done what we want to do) so we can make better decisions :niceone:

[sAsLEX]

need to change your sig again TS you have a top fairing now dont you??

[Two Smoker]

need to change your sig again TS you have a top fairing now dont you??
whoops, yep.... now i need a new supercorsa rear tyre :wacko: oh and some braided brake lines, and a LH side fairing, and some SBS brake pads...... while your at it a Ohlins rear shock too.....

[aff-man]

Thanks for the advice guys.

For those that wanted to know I am currently on my learners and sit my restricted in a couple of weeks. I'm only 21 but I'm going to see about the possiblity of sitting one of those fast forward courses.

I understand that there is alot more than just throttle control but there are a whole bunch of positives I see to upgrading to a 400. One of these being overtaking (esp. uphill) As this is quite a task on the GSX.

I did consider getting a more sports orientated 250 e.g. GSX-R but the legal for learners/restricted premium makes them the same if not more $ than a 400.

I am aware of the penalties of riding over 250cc and you may think it's stupid but I see the reward outweighing the risk (which I see as very slim).

:Offtopic: My poor GSX has to go to the shop as some nob from work that parks 4m behind my bike backed into the back of my bike causing it to fall on it's right side denting the tank and scratching fairings :weep: The fool was going way too fast for reversing in a carpark and was still pushing the bike after it fell over. The poor thing was shunted more than a metre. He'll pay! Gaddammit he'll pay! :angry2:

No offence mate but learn to ride a 250 first. When you can get a sporty 250 and litterally run it's balls off then you need bigger. i.e. going over the kopu's on the zxr250 i was bloody flying with i think the lowest revs were like 10k and in second for the tight corners. And i think those cbr250rr's corner even faster. Ask Ck about andy and trying to catch him when he was on his zx6r and andy on a cbr250rr aye :thud: :shake:

[rodgerd]

I am aware of the penalties of riding over 250cc and you may think it's stupid but I see the reward outweighing the risk (which I see as very slim).

You'll be a sad lad if they catch yyou and stick another 3 months on your learner/restricted (that was the main deterrent for me: I couldn't care less about a $200 fine).

[NC]

:killingme :)

I can't take you anywhere! :angry:


:laugh: :bleh:

[Two Smoker]

You'll be a sad lad if they catch yyou and stick another 3 months on your learner/restricted (that was the main deterrent for me: I couldn't care less about a $200 fine).
$400 fine.....

[Juan]

We have both the RVF 400 and the CBR400 Babyblade, both are superb little sports bikes, highly recomended :sunny:

[Darryboy]

Thanks again for the advice guys. I think I will keep legal and stay on a 2fiddy

madcat_
I haven't ridden any other bikes other than the GSX but I guess it does the trick. Although given the choice I'd choose a late 80's early 90's bike.
Top speed (after a while) is 160 which is pretty close to redline (13,000) so maybe a sprocket change could improve that.
Uphill overtaking requires a run up and it is hard to get over 120kph.

Thanks again for the advice guys.