wr450 questions

[marks]

Hi

About 4 months ago I brought a road legal wr450 and have since clocked up about 50hrs of mainly trail riding.

I love the power and handling but am struggling a bit in the real tight stuff.

Basically there are 2 issues - I find I have to be very accurate/gentle with the throttle in the tight stuff as it can be a bit "energetic" if you give it a fraction too much. After a couple hours of this I get quite a tired hand from trying to be so precise. I read somewhere of an after market throttle that has different "cambers?" too allow for slower response at small throttle openings with a big hit in the last part of the throttle travel. Anyone used something like this or know where I could get something.

The other problem is the light flywheel and high compression causing it to stall when hitting roots and other knarly bits while tricking along a low speed. The jerk when I stall is often enough to throw me off balance and down I go....

I was thinking of getting a Rekcluse auto clutch to help with this - anyone used one.

Any other (polite) suggestions appreciated....


cheers

Mark

[dammad1]

The WRF should have a reasonably heavy flywheel unless it has been changed.
It is a bit of a heavy bike to through around in the tight stuff, but if you are having problems stalling it all the time maybe you need to work a little on your technique with clutch and throttle control?
Also what gear are you trying to ride in through this stuff? If it's tireing you out you may want to try and ride it a gear higher to keep it smooth, the bike has more than enough torque to pull a higher gear.

[Wellyman]

Whats the gearing set as mate? probaly still using the standard gearing, may just be a bit to tall for the bush work, try a smaller front sprocket prehaps. The flywheel shouldnt be the problem..
WM

[telliman]

Whats the gearing set as mate? probaly still using the standard gearing, may just be a bit to tall for the bush work, try a smaller front sprocket prehaps. The flywheel shouldnt be the problem..
WM

classic!!!

[Wellyman]

classic!!!
Errrr... ok then...
WM

[marks]

Hi

Thanks for the responses

gearing stock is 14/50 and I'm running 13/50. Flywheel is stock (bike was new)

I'm sure that someone who knew what they where doing would be fine with appropriate clutch/throttle control but while I'm learning to work around the problem of stalling it makes the tight stuff hard work. If the trail is open enough to just "aim and fire" the bike works really well - it's just those inevitable grunt your way to the top of the rutty snotty hill losing momentum as you go and hit the last damn root and clonk - I stall and go tits up. A higher gear would just shudder and stall that much earlier.

Problem is I really like that sort of riding....

[Danger]

Here is the G2 throttle cam that you are thinking off.

http://www.g2ergo.com/sitebody/tcs4t.shtml

A customer of mine uses a recluse auto clutch on his 07 WR450. He loves it, no stalling. I've ridden it, its not really the sort of thing I like but would help in your situation.

[Fryin Finn]

I had an 03 WR450 and I stalled it a lot. A heavier flywheel would really help but there were none available then.
Yesterday I rode a KTM 250 EXC_F with a rekluse clutch - took a few minutes to get used to - nearly took out a tree in the first 10m but that was mostly due to not finding the brake lever where it should be. The only tricky thing I found with the clutch was for it to freewheel at low revs so I blipped the throttle on down hills and kept the engine revving where I could. It made riding the snotty bits real easy.
I would definitely recommend it for the big WR to tame the snatch bottom end and maybe make it less tiring to ride too.

[marks]

Here is the G2 throttle cam that you are thinking off.

http://www.g2ergo.com/sitebody/tcs4t.shtml

A customer of mine uses a recluse auto clutch on his 07 WR450. He loves it, no stalling. I've ridden it, its not really the sort of thing I like but would help in your situation.

Thanks for the link - I couldn't find it. This appears to be about the only option out there.


I had an 03 WR450 and I stalled it a lot. A heavier flywheel would really help but there were none available then.
Yesterday I rode a KTM 250 EXC_F with a rekluse clutch - took a few minutes to get used to - nearly took out a tree in the first 10m but that was mostly due to not finding the brake lever where it should be. The only tricky thing I found with the clutch was for it to freewheel at low revs so I blipped the throttle on down hills and kept the engine revving where I could. It made riding the snotty bits real easy.
I would definitely recommend it for the big WR to tame the snatch bottom end and maybe make it less tiring to ride too.

I'm encouraged to hear that I'm not the only one who has had stalling problems. I have only been riding about 14 months and had been viewing these changes as "trainer wheels" for an old and inexperienced wannabe :)

Sounds like the ktm has the earlier model z-start clutch. the rekluse z-start pro (http://www.rekluse.com/z-Start-Pro.shtml) kit allows you to keep a fully operational clutch - its a bit dearer but I think worth it.

I hope that the clutch will eventually pay for itself in reduced damage repairs and physio costs - I dropped the damn thing 7 times over the last 2 rides :blink: ... freaking indicator lenses are $20 each - feck

Oh well out with the credit card.

Thanks for responding guys.

[chris]

Swap it for a WR250 and once in the tight stuff, the light will be revealed.

[chris]

Mind you, you answered yor own question here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1284789&postcount=12

[takitimu]

You've might have already done it, but upping the idle speed helps as well, for what it's worth I had the same problems with the KLX when I first got it.

[jimmy 2006]

You've might have already done it, but upping the idle speed helps as well, for what it's worth I had the same problems with the KLX when I first got it.

leave the 450 in the shed and take your sons kdx200. much better for the throttle happy me thinks.

[dammad1]

Swap it for a WR250 and once in the tight stuff, the light will be revealed.

Yep I agree, and practise, and practise some more.

[Motu]

I have no experience with your WR450....late model high tech is not my thing.But when I moved to a 4 stroke trials bike I had a lot of low speed stalling...and low speed is what trials is all about.The trick is to stay on the throttle as much as possible,kinda hard with a 450 though....it stalls with shut throttle,so it needs to be open.The trick,and you see two stroke trials do this too - is to blip....blip,blip,blip.Momentum,and blip.I use 1st gear where a 2 stroke would be in second,and stay on the gas.....even keep the throttle open with the brakes on....clutch slipping.

[Cary]

I used a Rekluse clutch for about 2 years on 2 YZ250F's & found it excellent in all conditions from MX track to GNCC. MUST be set up right and would highly recommend the manual clutch adjuster.

For about a year i ran it without a clutch lever at all but found the manual a help on starts. Correctly set up they are fantastic.

Saying that I don't run one on current WR as I have gained a lot of experence over last few years and couldn't warrant the expence.

Everyone stalls now and again........

Still I think my 6'1" 110kg...(ok 115!) helps:msn-wink:

Didn't see anyone suggest if you had idle too low? worth checking & although i find flywheel weight good you can get aftermarket or GYTR heavy ones.

Good luck.

[marks]

well I spent 3 - 4 hours today up in the mangatooks practicing and it helped.

and yes takitimu I upped the idle on the wr a bit a while ago and it made quite a difference.

If you asked nicely Damned1 I would swap my 450 for your 300 - you would gain 150 so that must be good and my stalling problems would be over....

What really helped though was swapping bikes (temporarily..) with my son. We had one of those magic 'catch me if you can' rides with him ahead on the wr and me on the kdx - that little zinger is an absolute rocket when you wind it up and just keep stomping on the gear lever :). He had the wr all locked up sliding into corners then roosting rocks all over me as he exited while I sat about 3-6 metres behind him - we were both really pumped when we got back to the car. A truly magic ride. That poor kdx has shit suspension - my arms must be 50mm shorter from all the bottoming of the front forks (I'm 90kg).

Thanks again everyone for the feedback.

[Motu]

I upped the idle on the wr a bit a while ago and it made quite a difference.


Learn to keep the throttle open with your right hand and regain the lost engine braking.

[marks]

Saying that I don't run one on current WR as I have gained a lot of experence over last few years and couldn't warrant the expence.


You've most probably hit the nail on the head (along with Damned1's no so subtle hints :) ). Having only ridden for a bit over a year (maybe 120-140 hours trail riding - most of it on cheap 200 Chinese trail bikes who's clutch slipped automatically..) I simply haven't developed the clutch/throttle skills yet.

Over the holidays I'll hopefully put another 20 hours or so up in the Mungatooks and really make an effort to develop my clutch/throttle co-ordination. If I'm still struggling after that I'll order a rekluse z-start pro

cheers

Mark

[warewolf]

Keep at it, riding is definitely a skill. :2thumbsup 20 hours may not be enough.

The WR450F is not really a learner bike. I'd second the notion of the 250 being a better choice. Myself I went from a 900 "big trailie" adventure bike to 650-200-250-200, the latter being a 2T weapon that although being more capable, it made me feel like a learner again, it was so different. Each one was less road-oriented and more enduro capable.

One of the first things Greg Power teaches is what road-riders would decry as "clutch abuse". First gear, figure eights as slow and tight as you can do them, lots of revs on board, slip the clutch like mad to keep the speed at nearly standstill. Then progress to the same thing in the rough. You need to be able to control the balance of the bike with clutch/throttle control swiftly and SMOOTHLY. Think about it: why fuss about preserving your clutch plates while smacking $20 indicators into the ground regularly?! False economy, that.

If you go to a rekluse you'll never learn this basic skill, which would be fine if every bike you ride for the rest of your life has a rekluse auto-clutch.

As for the higher gearing, the idea is that you can load the bike up more with heavy throttle and it won't explode into the higher rpms so easily. By reducing the throttle response it smooths out the power delivery. I find with the 640 Adventure it will not stall if the throttle is open, doesn't matter how hideously hard you load it up, it won't stall. The 200-2T won't stall either, but it will lose revs because it hasn't got the grunt - yeah, I know, I should keep it in 'band... :lol:

The more off-road riding I've done, the more I slip the clutch on-road.

[dammad1]

If you asked nicely Dammad1 I would swap my 450 for your 300 - you would gain 150 so that must be good and my stalling problems would be over....



LOL Then you really would have problems.

The 450 is a big bike and although alot of guys rush out to buy them because of the extra power it will take some time before you can really use it.

Theres no substitute for time in the saddle so just keep practising.

[jimmy 2006]

LOL Then you really would have problems.

The 450 is a big bike and although alot of guys rush out to buy them because of the extra power it will take some time before you can really use it.

Theres no substitute for time in the saddle so just keep practising.

I can't wait to ride with you at desert storm to see how fast you've got with all your practicing ;-)

[dammad1]

I can't wait to ride with you at desert storm to see how fast you've got with all your practicing ;-)

LOL...... Yep that little thumper of yours will have its work cutout..... But don't worry i'll wait up for you.

[jimmy 2006]

LOL...... Yep that little thumper of yours will have its work cutout..... But don't worry i'll wait up for you.

depends how cunning i can be :cool: brains over braun anyday lol

[dammad1]

Quote: depends how cunning i can be brains over braun anyday lol

Damn I guess your screwed on both fronts then... oh well you could always cheat?

[Shells]

Hi

About 4 months ago I brought a road legal wr450 and have since clocked up about 50hrs of mainly trail riding.

I love the power and handling but am struggling a bit in the real tight stuff.

Basically there are 2 issues - I find I have to be very accurate/gentle with the throttle in the tight stuff as it can be a bit "energetic" if you give it a fraction too much. After a couple hours of this I get quite a tired hand from trying to be so precise. I read somewhere of an after market throttle that has different "cambers?" too allow for slower response at small throttle openings with a big hit in the last part of the throttle travel. Anyone used something like this or know where I could get something.

The other problem is the light flywheel and high compression causing it to stall when hitting roots and other knarly bits while tricking along a low speed. The jerk when I stall is often enough to throw me off balance and down I go....

I was thinking of getting a Rekcluse auto clutch to help with this - anyone used one.

Any other (polite) suggestions appreciated....


cheers

Mark

Hi Mark

I have a Rekluse on my WR450 and haven't looked back since. It now makes doing enduros feel like I'm out for a Sunday drive but with the speed factor. On the mx circuit I cruise past people who get bogged down in the thick sludge such is the genious of the auto clutch but that's just one advantage to em. My riding is smooth and controlled and this makes for a happy day laning or riding the track. They also work well when the WR is in motard trim.

Only problem I find with this product is that I sometimes forget to use the clutch on the GSXR750 :eek5:

[marks]

thanks again everyone for the feedback.

I can buy a rekcluse zstart pro from Aussie for about $880 NZ including delivery. I gather I will get stuck for import duty and gst? Is there a way around this?

cheers


Mark

[Danger]

Buy it in New Zealand?

[orangeback]

thanks again everyone for the feedback.

I can buy a rekcluse zstart pro from Aussie for about $880 NZ including delivery. I gather I will get stuck for import duty and gst? Is there a way around this?

cheers

Mark
buy out of the states as the dollars nearly 80c /100
and ask them to write it down as a gift or $50 dollar value ,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/yfz450-yfz-450-rekluse-z-start-clutch_W0QQitemZ250199015865QQihZ015QQcategoryZ439 77QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[marks]

Buy it in New Zealand?

No NZ dealers otherwise I would - Rekluse wont let american dealers sell outside of US. If I want to buy new I have to buy from the Aus/NZ dealer - Sutto's in Melbourne.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/yfz450-yfz-450-rekluse-z-start-clutch_W0QQitemZ250199015865QQihZ015QQcategoryZ439 77QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

thanks for that orangeback - that one will work on mine. I will see if I can sign up and place a bid.

cheers


Mark

[Danger]

There is someone selling these in NZ (I have met him but don't have his details). I will be seeing someone who has one in his WR450 on Monday. I will ask him for the details to get in touch with this person, I think he is in Hamilton or Matamata.

[marks]

There is someone selling these in NZ (I have met him but don't have his details). I will be seeing someone who has one in his WR450 on Monday. I will ask him for the details to get in touch with this person, I think he is in Hamilton or Matamata.

Thanks for that

I'd rather buy local if I can

cheers


Mark

[Lion]

how much quiter is the wr450 copared to the 450 mxers?

are they alot more reliable aswell?

[orangeback]

http://www.crf150r.org/bikepages/yzf_wrf.htm:headbang:

[jimmy 2006]

wouldn't putting a rekluse on a wr450 take all the fun out of riding off road bikes and the grin on the face from a pop of the clutch and a handfull of throttle? i thought they were already a more friendly version of the yzf450......

[Cary]

how much quiter is the wr450 copared to the 450 mxers?

are they alot more reliable aswell?

Much quieter.

Wouldn't say they are more reliable but the YZ by it's nature gets a harder time and is in a higher state of tune.

The WR's are geared, setup & cooled for slower running and handle the knocks better, not a lot of tree stumps, big rocks etc on an MX track!!

[Cary]

wouldn't putting a rekluse on a wr450 take all the fun out of riding off road bikes and the grin on the face from a pop of the clutch and a handfull of throttle? i thought they were already a more friendly version of the yzf450......

I disagree:oi-grr:

Get the manual clutch and you still have the option of popping the clutch.... Even without it the z-start slips the clutch for you and lets you brake way later into corners as you don't have to worry about pulling the cultch in when slamming the rear brake on into corners, then powering out (if necessary) in any gear.

[marks]

well Ive spent 10-12 hours over the last week or two trail riding and focusing hard on my clutch/throttle use.

You guys are right - 1 gear higher and clutch slip where needed makes things a lot smoother.

I'm still struggling in tight foresty stuff and particularly with rooty steep stream exits where I stall and drop but I'm definetly getting better at it.

I think I'll still get a Rekluse as even if It eliminates 1/2 my slow speed offs it will be worth it as my 48yr old body can take all week to recover from a 3-4hr trail ride...

thanks for all the help

cheers

Mark

[crazyxr250rider]

One question; have you thought about spending your money on rider coaching? Clutch and throttle control is one of the most basic and important skills that go with riding a dirt bike.You would have beter off with a 250.

[marks]

One question; have you thought about spending your money on rider coaching? Clutch and throttle control is one of the most basic and important skills that go with riding a dirt bike.

If I could find anyone in the wgtn region who does this I would certainly consider it.


You would have beter off with a 250.

agreed - but there weren't any road legal 250's that were serious trail bikes available in Oct when I brought the Yam. I wanted new and I didn't want to pay $13.5k for a KTM.

cheers

Mark

[crazyxr250rider]

If I could find anyone in the wgtn region who does this I would certainly consider it.

Good idea :banana:

[Danger]

Opps sorry Marks forgot about this over Xmas and remembered when I opened my work folder this morning.
The importer for the auto clutches is Demitry Motorcycles, Craig Dalton, 027 552 6944 or 07 889 7789.
It did sound like it was going to be more expensive to buy here in NZ though, so you might want to make just a general enquiry.

[marks]

Opps sorry Marks forgot about this over Xmas and remembered when I opened my work folder this morning.
The importer for the auto clutches is Demitry Motorcycles, Craig Dalton, 027 552 6944 or 07 889 7789.
It did sound like it was going to be more expensive to buy here in NZ though, so you might want to make just a general enquiry.

Thanks Danger - I have emailed them asking for prices.

BTW - did you receive and email from my son to your work email re a kdx200 suspension upgrade? (we've been having some email issues at our end)

cheers

Mark

[Danger]

If his name was Glen I replied earlier this afternoon. Struggling to get on top of emails and orders as well as get some work done on the first day back at work lol!

[marks]

Opps sorry Marks forgot about this over Xmas and remembered when I opened my work folder this morning.
The importer for the auto clutches is Demitry Motorcycles, Craig Dalton, 027 552 6944 or 07 889 7789.
It did sound like it was going to be more expensive to buy here in NZ though, so you might want to make just a general enquiry.

Their price was ok after factoring in gst etc so I ordered one from them. Many thanks for your help.

Glen did get the email - thanks

cheers


Mark

[marks]

Thanks again guys for the advice and suggestions.

I now have 80 odd hours on the bike and the last 30 odd I have really focused on clutch control - what a difference it makes. I am amazed that the clutch seems unfazed by the beating it gets in tight conditions but I really feel that I'm getting to grips with the bike now.

In hindsight it wasn't wise going from 10 months on a chinese 200 straight to a wr450 but thats what can happen when heart over rules brain.

I ordered a rekluse clutch in early January and it finally turned up yesterday - I'm not so sure I need it any more :)

I'm also giving up on the 450 as an adventure bikes - getting sick of this sort of stuff...

<img src=http://webcoda.com/images/bike/PICT2226.jpg>

so my mission today is to strip off all the road crap (after a good water blasting needed as a result of this (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316260))

thanks again for all the advice - it really helped

cheers

Mark

[merv]

I'm also giving up on the 450 as an adventure bikes


Mate that's not adventuring you were doing, that's hard out trail when you are in muck like that.

If I were you, if you do take the road gear off, put it all back on again for the Capital Coast because you'll just so love that on the WR.

[dammad1]

Good stuff Mark, once you get that clutch control sorted it can be quite satisfying what you can do with the bike.

[Reckless]

I'm actually trading down in frame and engine size to try and increase my skill and learning rate. We just sold my sons Cr125. He likes my Cr250 so instead of buying another 250 I'm going to get a Ktm200 (its 2smoke only for us) and we can share bikes. He's also a taller (6'2") than me so the Cr250 probably suits him. With its 125 frame size and slightly less power. I recon I'll do better on the 200. I read the Cr250 has about 49hp and the Ktm200 has 38hp. But power to weight ratio probably brings them close to each other. That's until I stick my fat 95 Kilos on the seat.
At my age and ability I recon its the best decision from what I have observed big horsepower doesn't mean faster or easier in MX or x country.
I have two good riding buddies we are similar skill and my mate with the YZ250F never has any trouble having lesser HP than my Cr250 or my other mates 07 Wr450 so I'm going smaller.
Your bike looks in good nick and if your riding trails like the ones in the pics it may well be worth swapping to a bike more suited to you and your riding.
Just my 2c

[marks]

My son and I swap bikes regularly (he's got a KDX200) and while I love 'flickyness' and light weight of the KDX I would now rather be on the WR even on really tight trails - it just seems to be so very stable - its just goes over things that would upset the KDX.

Thats why I'm giving up on using the WR as an adventure bike (on a long run at 100km/hr its not a nice place to be plus it brought out the hooligan in me) - to make it a better trail bike. Yesterday I put on a yz back guard on to replace all the lights and crap on the back and a number board (is that what they are called?) to replace the headlight/speedo/ignition key etc etc.

The wr is definitely a long term keeper and I hope will ultimately make me a better rider than something softer would.

[merv]

So what are you going to ride on the CCA are you going to borrow the boy's 230 again? I said before you'd love the WR on the CCA - I'll be using my WR250F on it :msn-wink: :cool:

[marks]

So what are you going to ride on the CCA are you going to borrow the boy's 230 again? I said before you'd love the WR on the CCA - I'll be using my WR250F on it :msn-wink: :cool:

My son lost interest in the DT230 so I now own it so thats what I'll be using on the CCA. The DT is so much more comfortable on the road - its also seems more stable on gravel compared to the WR. Off road the WR is so much better than the DT that there is no real comparison.