Drink driving - The facts please

[NinjaNanna]

Seeing as a mod has dropped this post into PD along with a whole thread - here it is again - resurrected as you might say.

In my opinion, one thing NZ does a piss poor job of is educating drivers regarding the number of drinks they can safely consume and stay under the legal limit.

In Australia anybody who has sat their license in the last 12 years knows full well that an average male can drink 2 Standard Drinks in the first hour then 1 drink every hour after that and stay below the legal limit of 0.05

For women they can only have 1 Standard Drink every hour and still be ok to drive - due to their lower metabolism.

Of course this varies slightly from person to person but works well enough to be promoted by the Government as a general guideline.

As far as I'm concerned when pouring your own drinks, Wine and Spirits are a very risky drink to be consuming as it is very difficult to accurately measure 1 Standard drink and far too easy to over consume.

Generally a bottle of wine is 8 standard drinks, so if the woman in the afore mentioned thread is telling the truth and she poured out 1/2 bottle of wine at the end of the night and still blew over the limit 4hrs after starting drinking, then I think she was either:

a) very unlucky and has a very poor tolerance to alchohol (metabolism)

or

b) some ill advised friend topped up her drink from a different bottle.

Also it is a misconception that food helps with alcohol absorbtion it doesn't the food just tells the body to start speeding up it metabolic process inorder to digest the food and the alcohol - the only thing that helps with removing the alchohol is TIME - as it is directly linked to the liver and kidneys ability to filter it from your blood after digestion.

One thing that really annoys me is that I have been unable to truely work out what the legal limit in NZ is, older people tell me its 0.08 (which is slightly higher than Aust) but everything I find on the NET and the road code refers to a concentration of 400??? and search as I might I cannot find any official guidelines to alchohol consumption and driving.

Anyway this all just serves to support my view that NZ'rs have no friggin idea how much they can drink before driving (this is only a reference to the legal limit not ability to drive safely and I put myself in this same catagory) so for now I will stick to my teachings from Australia and hope I don't get caught out by my own ignorance.

I personally see this as a very pertinant topic during the festive season so:

Please keep this thread on topic :mad: and only add to or refute this thread if you are postive about the information that you are posting. :2thumbsup

Hopefully some of our resident Medical Professionals, Police Officers or Legal Eagles may be along shortly to enlighten us all.

PS sorry if this has all been dealt with in the past, but then again this close to Christmas it doesn't hurt to raise the issue again does it!

Mods any chance we can make this sticky until after the Christmas Period is finished?

Cheers All and a Merry Christmas

NN

[Blue Velvet]

ALAC (Alcohol Advisory Council of New Zealand) has info on their web site:

http://www.alcohol.org.nz/AlcoholIntroduction.aspx

http://www.alac.org.nz/WhatsInAStandardDrink.aspx

http://www.alac.org.nz/DrinkingAndDriving.aspx

[Usarka]

huh, couldn't find any guidelines on drinks per hour (was i not looking hard enough?)

Probably too scared that people will follow them, still be over and use it as an excuse. Education can be a bad thing you know, like with driving skills.....

Though i did think it was standard knowledge. 2 standards first hour, 1 every hour after that (for men). Check the label of the bottle.

If anyone is drinking piss and driving without knowing the legal limits and their own tolerance then more fool them....

[MSTRS]

... people tell me its 0.008 ..... 400??? .

The 0.008 refers to blood/alcohol level. The 400 refers to the EBA (breath test).

[NinjaNanna]

MSTRS shone the light that I needed


NZ Current Legal Limits

Drivers under 20 years - 150mcg breath or 30mg blood;
Drivers over 20 years - 400mcg breath or 80mg blood.

A blood test measures the number of milligrams of alcohol (mgs) per 100 millilitres (mls) of blood.

Quoted from http://www.alac.org.nz/DrinkingAndDriving.aspx
thanks Blue Velvet


Australian BAC - Current Legal Limits

The legal blood alcohol concentration (BAC) limit is 0.05. This means that a driver’s body must contain less than 50 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.

Quoted from http://www.tacsafety.com.au/jsp/content/NavigationController.do?areaID=13&tierID=1&navID=8A3442C4&navLink=null&pageID=145


Driving

The amount of alcohol in the blood is called the Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC). BAC is measured by the number of grams of alcohol in 100mL of blood.

Your BAC depends on:

how much alcohol is consumed
what type of alcoholic drink is consumed
how fast the alcoholic drink is consumed
the amount of food in the stomach
other factors such as gender, body size, mood and health.

In Western Australia, it is illegal to drive a motor vehicle when your Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) is 0.05% or greater (or 0.02% and above for probationary drivers and some convicted drink drivers for a three-year period upon reissue of their license). Keeping your BAC level below 0.05% not only keeps you within the law, but keeps you and other road users safer.

If you decide to drink and drive:

Men should have no more than two standard drinks in the first hour and then no more than one standard drink per hour after that.

Women should have no more than one standard drink in the first hour and one standard drink per hour after that.

This is a guide only as your BAC will depend greatly on the factors described above. For more information on alcohol and driving go to The Office of Road Safety.

Quoted from http://www.dao.health.wa.gov.au/Structure/Prevention/DrinkingGuidelinesStandardDrinks/tabid/93/Default.aspx?PageContentMode=1

I also urge you to check this site for standard drink information

[The Pastor]

i thought it was 3 standard drinks then 1 an hour.

Pretty much I drink 1/hr anyways, so even after a 6 beers i'll still drive/ ride (its been over 6hrs). usally ends up being 6 beers over like 10hrs anyways.

[NinjaNanna]

i thought it was 3 standard drinks then 1 an hour.


I can only comment on what is officially supported in Australia to stay below 0.05%.

Looking at the numbers these suggest that 3 drinks in NZ would be ok for the average male. BUT THAT IS ONLY IF THE BAC WORKS ON A LINEAR SCALE I do not know for certain if this is the case or not!!!!

[Mom]

My advice, be very careful using the guidelines as a firm "she'll be right"

Many factors affect the absorbsion of alcohol, dehydration is a good example. For women too, the size you are can really affect how much you can safely consume before being over limit, small bodies means smaller amount to tip the balance. Stress also plays a big part in the equation.

[tipper]

i thought it was 3 standard drinks then 1 an hour.

I have tried this at a pissup actually at a Police Station, and it does seem to work. After a whole night 'on the booze' about a drink per hour, i still blew under.

[ManDownUnder]

A personal pissing off point is the absolute limits imposed by the law... none of which can accurately be determined by the individual involved.

It's all academic anyway because if you think you could be approaching the limit you should have stopped long ago.

[Blue Velvet]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4327221a6579.html?source=RSSwaikatotimes/localnews_20071217

Over 1%. Cripes...round here at 11pm it must be at least 25%.

The stupid cow who was over the limit when she drove to collect her husband from the checkpoint must surely get the dumbass award of the week.

How to drink properly (http://www.rochester.edu/uhs/healthtopics/Alcohol/bac.html)

http://www.erie.gov/stopdwi/bac_calculator.asp
(ounces and pounds, so uh yeah so urm, cope) :bleh:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1345106&postcount=1

[NinjaNanna]

One of the things I have always struggled with is knowing how many standard drinks I'm having when drinking Tap Beer at the pub.

It seems every pub you go to (internationally) the glass sizes are called something else (pots, pints, middies, schooners, 10oz , 12oz, etc, etc).

What I think would be very helpful is a Java App that you could run on your mobile phone that calculates the Standard Drink by inputing the Alcohol Content (3.0-5.5%) and the Size of the Glass in MLs.

Do we have any Java Programmers out there that could write this little app?

[Finn]

Here are the facts. Much less than 10% of the deaths on our roads are caused by drink drivers. This 10% also conveniently includes people that had a single beer before removing themselves from the gene pool.

So I conclude that it's all the sober people on the roads that are causing all the fatalities (over 90%).

You know what to do if you want to survive this Christmas. Drink and Drive. If you don't, you're a bloody killer.

[avgas]

Do the old reaction test, get a friend to drop a ruler at the start of the night. See where you grab it. If your reactions are more than +3cm worse - i wouldnt ride home.
If you cant handle gravity, what do you think 200kph on a 200kg object is going to feel like.

[Finn]

If you cant handle gravity, what do you think 200kph on a 200kg object is going to feel like.

Less pain if you're really pissed though.

[Ixion]

Every bottle of alcohol sold in NZ must have on the label how many standard drinks it contains. Where alcohol is sold by the glass, the glass must have the number of standard drinks imprinted on it, or where this not possible (the norm of course), the bar staff (strictly, I think the duty manager) must be able to tell you how many standard drinks are in your drink. Ask them. I'm more interested in how many standard drunks are in the bar m'self.

[007XX]

Do the old reaction test, get a friend to drop a ruler at the start of the night. See where you grab it. If your reactions are more than +3cm worse - i wouldnt ride home.
If you cant handle gravity, what do you think 200kph on a 200kg object is going to feel like.

Interesting test, I shall try that...although I generally either drink or drive, never both.

What I still don't understand (and no, I'm not on my soap box....yet!), is why people just cannot seem to just accept that if you drink, then there is a likelyhood of being considered over the limit...Too many variants involved, so don't take the risk and either stay the night, or organise a driver...

Or, if you really want to have a few drinks and still drive legally, buy one of these self diagnostics breathalisers, just to make sure.

Promoting the "so many drinks per hour" can be easily misconstrued and abused...I don't like it!

[Winston001]

Interesting test, I shall try that...although I generally either drink or drive, never both.

What I still don't understand (and no, I'm not on my soap box....yet!), is why people just cannot seem to just accept that if you drink, then there is a likelyhood of being considered over the limit...Too many variants involved, so don't take the risk and either stay the night, or organise a driver...

Or, if you really want to have a few drinks and still drive legally, buy one of these self diagnostics breathalisers, just to make sure.

Promoting the "so many drinks per hour" can be easily misconstrued and abused...I don't like it!

Good post. Forget about standard drinks, measuring time. I've seen so many bewildered people over the years protesting their innocence after being caught over the limit.

The simple answer is do not drink and drive.

[007XX]

Good post. Forget about standard drinks, measuring time. I've seen so many bewildered people over the years protesting their innocence after being caught over the limit.

The simple answer is do not drink and drive.

:hug::first: Exactly!

[scumdog]

Good post. Forget about standard drinks, measuring time. I've seen so many bewildered people over the years protesting their innocence after being caught over the limit.

The simple answer is do not drink and drive.

Wot 'e sed.

So many people (rightly or wrongly) I have processed claim they 'only had three' - our joke with some is that the three must have been bottles of gin, I mean c'mon, a 'blow' of 985 and still claiming "But I only had three drinks" - do they think we'll assume the machine must be faulty and they are right?

The danger point is when after you've had a couple (three?), start to feel the effects then a little later you start to think "Hmm, I don't feel too bad at all, I should be right to drive home" - DON'T!! That is the point when so many get picked up for EBA.

To get over the adult limit takes a reasonable quantity of drink, trust me, I've done some experimenting. (And my work-mates will back up the fact it takes a bit to be over)

[crashe]

It is NOT about the size of the person as to how much they can consume to be over the limit.

I have seen some small sized men and women fair put it away and still dont act drunk..... while other small sized people can be drunk after 1 glass.

I have seen some biggish people, only have one or two drinks and cant drink any more as they will be over the limit while I have seen some biggish people drink and drink...

I believe its about your body makeup and how it reacts to booze.

If people dont drink that often then yep the booze will go straight to your head. Then be safe and get a taxi.





Take a look at this thread:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=22507248&threadid=22507248
This person only had 3 maybe 4 smallish glasses of wine with a decent meal over 4 hours....... then drove...... got busted.
Now off to court..... She also had some mint lollies.
She is now off to court.

Her friend in the car was also tested and they had, had vodkas etc..... and wasn't over the limit.
She had even organised a 'dial-a-taxi' home afterwards.

She did everything by the book, had a meal, had a few wines spread over so many hours and yet was over the limit.

Maybe the mint lollies on her breath did it, she didnt ask for a blood test at the time.

Yet the people of that forum bollocked her out..... when all she wanted was some advise, on what kinda fine she would recieve and how long would she loose her license for....



If people dont drink that often then yep the booze will go straight to your head. Then be safe and get a taxi.

[ajturbo]

Don't get a Standard Drink mixed up with a "bottle of beer"!! Nearly all beers are more than one standard drink.. i.e bottle of Steinlager is 1.3 standard drinks.

Typical....

picking on poor old Steini"

[avgas]

To get over the adult limit takes a reasonable quantity of drink, trust me, I've done some experimenting. (And my work-mates will back up the fact it takes a bit to be over)
I agree, 1 night i was rather stupid and drunk till i was "tiddly", apparently i was telling my mates that i was too pissed to drive home. Got a txt from the mrs, she would keep quiet so i got in my car, manged to start it (somehow) drove semi-straight down the road (well i thought i was), and didnt even have the reactions to run from a checkpoint.
Yet i blew only 3/4 legal limit?
I was dumbstruck, and very angry at myself for doing such a dumb act the night before - i told my mates that if i pulled a stunt like that again they have free reign to knock me out.

[Genestho]

Heres something I remember from sitting my Duty Managers License years ago...your liver is only able to process 1 standard drink per hour. Once you get ahead of your liver's ability to process a standard drink per hour, thats when you start getting pissed.

There was an article I read on the front page of a paper back in May, being that for men, the idea was 3 the first hour and one per hour after that, I was informed by a reporter that a few Agencies cringed when that came out, as somebody has already said it depends on all the variables: tiredness, sickness,mental health, whether you've eaten, and body build.

If your at the Pub a Duty Managers job is to keep an eye on things, offer food and/or a taxi.

Thats why it is difficult for the NZ public to have the ability to differentiate the difference between the couple of quiets after work and cruise home, and the "oh shit Ive been busted and didnt mean to screw up" versus the idiots that dont give a damn.

Really frustrating if you did just want a quiet beer. Just watch those breathalisers too, we had one in our home and after extensive testing found it was innacurate.

There are too many variables. Be carefull out there.

[Winston001]

The crux of the problem is we have this namby pamby law which actually allows you to drive after deliberately consuming alcohol.

If our politicians had any guts they'd pass a simple law saying "no alcohol" in blood or breath. Then we wouldn't have decent people getting into trouble when they've been mislead that a 'few' drinks is lawful.

[Genestho]

I totally agree Winstone, unfortunately the public is mislead into thinking what is a safe limit. And making decisions based on these "safe limits"

I agree its better to know where you stand, right from the start. Zero.

Unfortunately that wont stop the Hardcore Recidivists and it would punish the everyday Joe.

But then again it wouldnt have to, it would make it mandatory for the everyday Joe who does have something to loose, or have a conscience - to make appropriate arrangements.

Think of it this way it would be setup for the next generations that wouldnt know any different.

Our generations do and thats why the zero tolerance argument is hard for people to swallow.

20 years ago it wasnt illegal to drink and drive, so theres a whole generation of "she'll be right mate" crowd who still dont see drinking and driving as badd..

Even when I was a teenager if there was drinking and driving, your booze got tipped out and if you were really naughty your keys were confiscated.

Once you try to survive through the aftermath caused by a recidivist its one of the answers that makes sense, although it wouldnt solve the whole HardCore Recidivist drink driver problem as they are beyond any help or punishment - they simply do not care. And when you see a profile, you quickly realise they usually have way more problems than most of us.

Zero tolerance would be hellishly hard for understaffed, underfunded Highway Patrol and Booze Buses to Police. I guess thats why a cut in BAC has been proposed.

[ajturbo]

Just watch those breathalisers too, we had one in our home and after extensive testing found it was innacurate.

There are too many variables. Be carefull out there.

i agree.... years ago i was very silly... had too much to drink, drove, and got caught... blow into this bag... bugger.... well bugger me!. nothing happened!!! the cop told me to piss off home NOW...

scared the shit out of me... never again... one beer and that's it... 2?... na, i'll wait a while... 3 .. no wait, i'm stuck... and hopefully at a nice ladies place ( but more likely at the boss's place...nice warm bed...bacon and eggs in the morning and then told by his wife that it might be a good idea to get home NOW... hahahah)