For Fucks Sake! Fourth fucking bin! Give me a break!

[ital916]

FFS! Just got the fucking indicators and headlights fixed today. Was riding home slowly since it was raining. Turned into ladies mile road and halfway through the corner rode through a nice big puddle of diesel! And i'm talking puddle! Good bye traction hello lowside. Took four guys to pick my bike up without sliding and falling over in the diesel! There goes my helmet, big hole in jacket and nice big fucking sore lump on my leg. Fucking hell how bad luck can a guy get, for fucking sake the biker gods could give me a bit of fucking leniancy! You know i wear the god damn high vis vest i have all the gear and i fucking ride safe! Go ahead i'm awaiting the insults and your a fucking idiot replies. This ain't gonna stop me from riding though. Damage is well nothing really the bike was already munted. Indicators work and so do the headlights, front brake lever now looks like a flowery garden ornament nice and curled.As well just before in the store, turns out that the bulbs the previous owner put in were too high or something melted and fucked the headlight unit!!! so one light works and the unit needs to be replaced. Sigh....i feel so down. So down. Well anyway call me what you want but i'm not a bad rider, but i must have pissed some biker god off in my past life.

Very Sad

Kinda Depressed

Stilll love riding

Very Sore

Gear Smells like diesel

Drider

[terbang]

Bloody diesel eh, gets a few of us alright. Chin up mate, it sounds like you have just had your next 30 years worth... It can only get better.

[Number One]

Stink one man..sorry to hear that. And if anyone has the gumption to give you shit on here they can go get effed....I'm sure you are feeling shite enough and don't need any crap from knobs who make out like they have never had a run of bad luck. Keep your chin up mate and remember it is just your FIRST bike so you can crash it heaps and keep learning :sunny: you'll be awesome in no time

[Deano]

Sounds like you had your fair share of 'breaks' dude.

I like your attitude bro - don't give up.:Punk:

I would consider buying a motard style bike though. They take the knocks really well.

As for traction, well, Limbimtimwim is constantly riding through puddles, gravel, wet painted lines etc just for kicks on his DR400SM (sado masochist)

[tri boy]

[QUOTE=Deano;1346059]Sounds like you had your fair share of 'breaks' dude.

I like your attitude bro - don't give up.:Punk:

+1. Mate your having a rough run, but you obviously have "The Passion", so things will work out.
Actually that strong drive you have can be found in successful racers also. You could go far....

[jonbuoy]

Good on ya for getting back on the horse, fuck all you can do if you hit a diesel patch that shits worse than ice.

[Matt_TG]

It's good to vent, and you have deserved the right to do it! Talk about bad luck, hope you stop feeling sore, soon.

[limbimtimwim]

Insults?

NO!

You deserve mad props!

[janno]

Jeez, wouldn't all our lives be so much easier if they put flourescent pink dye in diesel?! Bastard stuff!!

Sometimes people stuff up, sometimes it's just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I don't know how you could have avoided that one, glad your not giving up.

[bell]

This ain't gonna stop me from riding though.

Hey, that's what I was going to say. Cheers for the timely reminder that hydrocarbons can get any of us, anywhere, anytime....sounds like a speed camera ad.

(Mental note to self: watch out for HWP on the Buller Gorge tomorrow.)

[0arbreaka]

Keep ya head up mate, bins happen to the best of us, best you can do is try and learn from them.

[Monsterbishi]

It's the worlds way of telling you that a 150cc 2 stroke is not the bike for you, buy a RGV250 and all your problems will go away! :cool:

[HTFU]

Go ahead i'm awaiting the insults and your a fucking idiot replies. This ain't gonna stop me from riding though.

Since you are expecting it.......and everyones being so PC Touchy Feely

"Does your girlfriend ride ?"

[fireliv]

Bugger me that sucks!!!
Oh well, I guess you just have to get back in the hot seat, cos this bad runs gotta end some time!

[Dafe]

Gutted dude, Sorry to hear.

I know alot of bikers on here will only ride when they're virtually guaranteed that rain is not going to strike. I'm one of them.
Dry riding is the only riding I enjoy.

[xwhatsit]

You don't sound like a clown.

Get an experienced rider to take your bike for a short spin. Rule out at least one variable.

It was very slippery today, though. I ride in all weather, every day -- but today was particularly nasty, as it's been sunny for a long time then all of a sudden it hosed down. Even the, erm, `throttle friendly' 250RS spun up a couple of times trying to get an edge on the cagers off the lights.

[oldrider]

Good on you, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, the odds will go with you soon. Good luck. :ride: Cheers John.

[ital916]

Thanks for the support guys. Gonna have a rest for a few days, my knees still pretty sore. Nah my gf doesn't ride..she really wants me to give up biking, in fact she asked me yesterday hypothetically "if i was to say give up biking or the relationship my reply would be"...........i'll get back to ya in the distant future lol :spanking::spanking::spanking::spanking::spanking: :spanking:

[PirateJafa]

All things considered, I suspect it is safest for you to hold onto my hi-vis vest for a while yet!

[Subike]

Thanks for the support guys. Gonna have a rest for a few days, my knees still pretty sore. Nah my gf doesn't ride..she really wants me to give up biking, in fact she asked me yesterday hypothetically "if i was to say give up biking or the relationship my reply would be"...........i'll get back to ya in the distant future lol :spanking::spanking::spanking::spanking::spanking: :spanking:

If you ever let another person bribe you to stop riding, and you stop. Or anything in life for that matter.
You will never forgive yourself.
If your G F dont like it, then why is she your G F. At your age there are plenty out there.
Keep in there bud, you are doing just fine. binning on tarmac hurts, but you are learning , and with a lot of confidence too.
I congratulate you on your honesty and determination.
As said by others, this will be greatly reduced as you learn, and also because of it, you will become a very good rider, one that will be hard to pace with on the tight stuff when you get a bigger bike.
Enjoy you Xmas, and love that little bike to death. its teaching you well :niceone:

[cowboyz]

It is not very surprising how kiwibiker has come round to such a holding hands, group hugs PC forum these days but really? Alot of comment about people dont know what he could have done to avoid it? Well you could practice some defensive driving and watch ahead to what is coming. A splatter of diesel on the road can be hard to see but a pool? When you noticed something odd about the road in front of you you should have scrubbed off as much speed as possible before hitting the spill and then stood the bike up as much as you could and rode through it.
Go find the BRONZ RRRS course and after you have completed it you will probably find the "biker gods" will be nicer to you.

[ital916]

fair cop mate but you do realise it was pouring like a fucking thunder storm yesterday which equals nearly zero vis. I had my high beam on was taaking a 40 corner at 20 was looking as far ahead as i could and trust me you probably think it's an easy thing to spot but diesel in pouring rain. I didn't even know it was there till i hit it. Even at a slow speed the bike slid a fair way. The road was so slippery i fell over when i got up lol That said yes i will go for the RRRS course. Oh and i don't find kiwibiker touchy feely but the fact that people have given me a bit of support will greatly help in my confidence at getting back up and riding.lol

[Gubb]

Jeez, wouldn't all our lives be so much easier if they put flourescent pink dye in diesel?! Bastard stuff!!

That's not a bad idea. Might even stop 'dem Boyracers using the stuff on the roads 'cause "it's a bit gay".

[Katman]

Stop blaming all and sundry for your misfortune. There's no such thing as "biker gods".

[Crisis management]

Bad luck with the offs, now you need to learn to stay on the bike.......

As others have said, do the RRRS course and learn to control the bike, avoid the dangerous stuff and ride defensively. Expect there to be variable traction on the road, expect there to be slippery tar strips, diesel spills, someone to cut you off, brake suddenly and for you to make mistakes.

Make sure you have a decent set of tyres on the bike. By decent I mean rubber that will let you know it's getting near the limits of traction and then slide controllably when you get beyond that limit. Without good tyres you are wasting your time trying to learn to control the bike. Spend the money......

Now that the bike is slightly used looking take the opportunity to abuse it a bit more! Go onto some gravel roads and try riding on that. This will teach you about balance, limited traction and sliding, all at low speeds with minimal potential for damage.

Failing all this well meaning advice HTFU.

Now, have I missed anything out?



Seriously, its about good tyres and rider skills, it's that simple.

[MSTRS]

As I wasn't there, I don't know what you were not doing that 'may' have helped avoid this off. You have been having some serious bad luck, but there is always some thing that you could do that will reduce the 'bad luck'. That is what it means to be a learner - repeated 'bad luck' until you start doing things 'right'.
Not to say that the best riders wouldn't have lost it in a pool of diesel either...
The RRRS course is the next step for you.
And the tyre comment by CrisisM....he is absolutely right. RGs usually have the shittiest tyres fitted - I mean, so bad that they should carry warnings that they will kill you if you even think about cornering or wet roads. If you can, get GP100s or equivalent

[Tank]

Diesel is indeed a bitch. Like everyone else I wasnt there - so I cannot comment about that accident.

However this is your 4th off? In one of your other post you said "Im not a bad rider".

In this thread you said "Well anyway call me what you want but i'm not a bad rider, but i must have pissed some biker god off in my past life."

What it looks like to me is that you are riding above your ability over all. Im not saying that you are riding like a bat out of hell, or being stupid - but more that your level of confidence is greater than your skill level at this point.

+1 on the comments about the courses, or some of the really good mentor groups here on KB.

Glad to hear you are not giving it up - take it slowly, ride safe and enjoy!

C

[yungatart]

Four bins and you are still keen....definitely a hard man! I think I would have given up.
But since you want to carry on riding and presumably, live to tell the tale, get yourself an experienced rider as your mentor, do RRRS, and get those tyres checked.
And remember, it is SHINY SIDE UP!

[MSTRS]

Ever wonder why experienced riders seem to be "luckier"?
It is because they have learned to read the subtle danger signals, before they become a problem. One thing that you must learn to do is to look well ahead because this will give you more time to react and adjust your riding before you get to the hazard. If you look 3 feet in front of your front wheel you will have no time to react. And learn to use your peripheral vision as well.
Riding a bike safely is not limited to just handling the bike itself.

[babyblade250rr]

sorry to hear about your run of bad luck friend, it's seem as though this one was unavoidable! damn diesel and damn boyracers!!

[ital916]

the thought of kicking down a notch and getting a gn and learning to ride on something tamer has crossed my mind lol Anyone want to be my ride mentor? Thought id ask.

[0arbreaka]

Mate, the rg150 is a sweet bike to learn on imho. Theres plenty of people on kb who would be more than willing to mentor you. The best advice i can give you is to take it slow, and to ride to your abilities, if you do that youll get better and better. Everyone bins at some stage, just look at what went wrong and what you can do about it if you ever get into that situation again.

[HungusMaximist]

Duchy, you've hit the bad luck pretty hard but look on the bright side, at least you're binning on your RG150 than something bigger and way more expensive. :crazy:

Just remember, shit happens aye, just take it as if it's another challenge you gotta overcome. Spirits high, laugh if off and you'll be fine.

Get a mentor if you can, plenty around in Aucks, but make sure you get the right one aye! :clap:

Hope to see you on Saturday!

[Deano]

Stop blaming all and sundry for your misfortune. There's no such thing as "biker gods".

Burt Munro believed in them so they must be real. You're just an atheist.

[ital916]

Jeez katman the biker god references were just me venting a little and making my rant a little lighter *if that was possible*, i'm sucking up my pride and i will learn from this. lighten up aye! If i can bin four times *fuck i hate saying that* and get back up to ride you can lighten up. No offense.

[ital916]

And oh katman i don't blame anyone but myself.

[RC1]

And oh katman i don't blame anyone but myself.

dont pay attention to katman hes a farkwit :finger:

[Tank]

Stop blaming all and sundry for your misfortune. There's no such thing as "biker gods".

Oh yes there is. Katman is MY biking god.

oh - sorry did I say God - I was supposed to say one track, moaning, boring, git.

Seriously Katman - Every reasonable person can see (from whats posted) that this bin was an unlucky one that could have caught any of us.

Give the guy a break.

[MSTRS]

Stop blaming all and sundry for your misfortune. There's no such thing as "biker gods".

Oh FFS...piss off with your bullshit. If you were really serious about 'your campaign', you would be offering help or suggestions. Nobody is interested in your crap.

[Reckless]

Stop blaming all and sundry for your misfortune. There's no such thing as "biker gods".


Oh FFS! Katman actually thought he believed in biker gods... what planet is the guy on????
Oh well, life must be shit with the glass always being 1/2 empty??

I don't usually post for this type of crap, but that was to much!!! Walks away shaking his head............................


By the way Dryrider that was the best written bitch seasion I've read on KB for a long while.
1000 points for the post and may your luck change from this point on!!!!!!!!!!

[babyblade250rr]

the thought of kicking down a notch and getting a gn and learning to ride on something tamer has crossed my mind lol Anyone want to be my ride mentor? Thought id ask.

I tought myself to ride not saying i'm a great rider but i'm alive and my bikes in one peice so something must be going ok! (Knock on wood) but i must admit i still ride like a nanna and always stick to my limits, I went riding with Raj (YamahaR64Life) and he had to wait for me. Which in my opinion is fine atleast i can ride the next day, So yeah take it easy nanna if need be and slowly it all comes together

good luck mate

[babyblade250rr]

Also some have said why have such a high powered supersport if you don't ride it to it's potential? My answer to that is well "ATLEAST I STILL HAVE A SUPERSPORT" i've crashed a few times in the past and i know it's not a plesant encounter so yeah i'll ride within my comfort zone

[Ixion]

the thought of kicking down a notch and getting a gn and learning to ride on something tamer has crossed my mind lol Anyone want to be my ride mentor? Thought id ask.

I doubt that a GN would offer any advantage other than having no fairings. The RG is a pretty good learner's bike. If you are really thinking of a change, a small chookchaser would be a better bet.

I think you are focusing too much on riding and not enough on roadcraft. That is where courses like RRRS are good: you can practice the riding bit until it becomes automatic in an environment where you need not be concerned about roadcraft. Then, the riding skills having become automatic, when you go out on the road, you have attention to devote to roadcraft, reading the road.

Get thee at least to a big empty car park and set up your own RRRS type course. Riding around, countersteering, braking, until the actual riding requires no thought at all.

Practice on different surfaces. Remember the road is not a race track where you may expect never to encounter anything but clean dry good quality seal. You will sooner or later have to ride on gravel, grass, rocks, on rough and broken surfaces, you will encounter pot holes or obstacles mid corner, roads will be wet, greasy, oily. Dealing with that is the skillset of the experienced road rider (and many fast riders, even racers, are poor road riders).

But also, end of the day, sometimes shit happens. And the Biker Gods decide to make you Target of the Day. Oh yes, they most certainly do exist. If you have offended them , there are rituals to placate them. But finding a virgin mouse nowdays is very difficult.

[Katman]

Oh FFS! Katman actually thought he believed in biker gods... what planet is the guy on????


Are you for real????:rofl:

[Tank]

Are you for real????:rofl:

Are you? Or possibly you are just a troll-bot?:banana:

[Mikkel]

Too bad about your spill! Shit happens - that's why we wear helmets I guess... :yes:

Good on ya for not letting it get you off the 2-wheeled way. And here's to hoping that you'll walk away from your spills with some good experience. It would be bad if the only thing you gained from it was mad skills at binning ;)

And kudos for posting your experiences here, it's always good to share IMHO.
And the great thing about KB is that you're likely to get a lot of responses from very different perspectives. Also, it's so nice to see how everyone appreciate this fact and get along nicely... :clap:


Oh yes there is. Katman is MY biking god.

oh - sorry did I say God - I was supposed to say one track, moaning, boring, git.

Seriously Katman - Every reasonable person can see (from whats posted) that this bin was an unlucky one that could have caught any of us.

Give the guy a break.


Oh FFS...piss off with your bullshit. If you were really serious about 'your campaign', you would be offering help or suggestions. Nobody is interested in your crap.


Oh FFS! Katman actually thought he believed in biker gods... what planet is the guy on????
Oh well, life must be shit with the glass always being 1/2 empty??

I don't usually post for this type of crap, but that was to much!!! Walks away shaking his head............................


By the way Dryrider that was the best written bitch seasion I've read on KB for a long while.
1000 points for the post and may your luck change from this point on!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone want a tui? My shout! :jerry:

[99TLS]

good to hear it hasnt put you off motorcycles, hopefully you get them out of the way before you get on a bigger bike as they hurt more the faster you go :pinch:

[Bonez]

Keep riding mate. Ignor the negitive shit on this thread and take in the possitive. I have a biker angle and pixie dust which has given me protection from my last three offs (over as many months).

Seems like plain bad luck with the deisel.(Even Katman has admitted this can occur)

Good on ya for asking for help btw.

[PirateJafa]

Seriously Katman - Every reasonable person can see (from whats posted) that this bin was an unlucky one that could have caught any of us.

Oh no, Katman would never have binned it.

I heard Katman took the same corner at 100km/h balancing on his front tyre while doing a handstand, and pulled it off because he's a "mature rider". True story.

[homer]

dont know if youve riden a bike on a shingle road
but if not thats where you will learn a lot of contol

not just in the vehicle lanes but get in to the deeper shingle
dont go to fast about 40 60 km
and you ll get a different feel

the secret is dont try to correct the movement
after a while the bike rides its self

this is just a thought ....but its where i learned to ride

I had heps of minor bins in the river bed , its a good place to bin as you get used to the hurt after a while

[Macstar]

In the last 2 weeks did you attend the Mon or Wed learner evenings?

You've asked for help in the past and people have given it to you Dushy and although it's early days in your riding career I do not think 4 bins is coincidental (granted last bin was a real bitch). I think you need to get off the public roads and learn to ride elsewhere before you truly hurt yourself or others. Sorry mate, I'm being frank but I've been riding with you a few times now and feel semi-qualified on your situation.

I don't want to see you go down for good - talk to Kittyhawk about cruising around the Mt Welly track.

[homer]

In the last 2 weeks did you attend the Mon or Wed learner evenings?

You've asked for help in the past and people have given it to you Dushy and although it's early days in your riding career I do not think 4 bins is coincidental (granted last bin was a real bitch). I think you need to get off the public roads and learn to ride elsewhere before you truly hurt yourself or others. Sorry mate, I'm being frank but I've been riding with you a few times now and feel semi-qualified on your situation.

I don't want to see you go down for good - talk to Kittyhawk about cruising around the Mt Welly track.

Id agree with you totally :dodge:

[ital916]

haha yeah i'd agree with you guys too but seeing as i need to ride my bike places. I'll def turn up to as many learner things as possible. Oh and four bins was bad luck. One bin down to newbie to riding and three to just plain bad luck! Talking of bad luck, turns out my rear tires air plug is short and decided to bleed air, had to ride to squiggles on a 3/4 flatty to help figure it out! Now oyu tell me whether thats my fault and if a lesson will help me learn to ride on bloody flat tires lol

[Katman]

haha yeah i'd agree with you guys too but seeing as i need to ride my bike places. I'll def turn up to as many learner things as possible. Oh and four bins was bad luck. One bin down to newbie to riding and three to just plain bad luck! Talking of bad luck, turns out my rear tires air plug is short and decided to bleed air, had to ride to squiggles on a 3/4 flatty to help figure it out! Now oyu tell me whether thats my fault and if a lesson will help me learn to ride on bloody flat tires lol

No, not bad luck - bad management. FFS, you sound like one of these riders that will forever blame their mishaps on anything and everything other than themselves.

[YellowDog]

Drider mate, your luck will turn for you. You are getting a lifetime of bad luck and spills out if your system. Take it easy(ier).

[ital916]

yeah i hope so, i'm a careful rider aye, just feel stink when someone tells you you shouldn't ride on public roads lol need sleeep night all.

[Macstar]

haha yeah i'd agree with you guys too but seeing as i need to ride my bike places. I'll def turn up to as many learner things as possible. Oh and four bins was bad luck. One bin down to newbie to riding and three to just plain bad luck! Talking of bad luck, turns out my rear tires air plug is short and decided to bleed air, had to ride to squiggles on a 3/4 flatty to help figure it out! Now oyu tell me whether thats my fault and if a lesson will help me learn to ride on bloody flat tires lol

At the last learner ride we covered the whole checking tyre air pressure before riding, a crucial lesson for you I would have thought given your previous citing of tyres being the culprit of at least one of your bins.

But then, surprise, surprise just days later after the lesson and yet another bin you admit to riding with a semi-flat tyre and therefore indirectly admit to not checking your tyre pressure before setting off on your ride. Either that or you rode anyway knowing your tyre needed air.


yeah i hope so, i'm a careful rider aye, just feel stink when someone tells you you shouldn't ride on public roads lol need sleeep night all.

Well, like I said, public roads are not the best place to learn to ride on. You keep binning on roads shared with cars, trucks and buses and one of them might not be able to stop in time to avoid you and your bike lying in the middle of the road from another "unlucky bin".

Sorry Dushy, you're a nice enough guy and I think a lot of people here on KB have a lot of patience and time for you - but mate?! Either take charge of your situation i.e. more lessons / riding help, maintaining and monitoring your bike properly, or get a bus pass.

Merry Xmas:Pokey:

[HungusMaximist]

Duchey, I'll probably catch up with you tomorrow at Stephens aye, since I gonna pass there.

We'll have a look at your bike and do something about it.!

[HTFU]

Sorry Dushy, you're a nice enough guy and I think a lot of people here on KB have a lot of patience and time for you - but mate?! Either take charge of your situation i.e. more lessons / riding help, maintaining and monitoring your bike properly, or get a bus pass.



Finally a acquaintance of one of these crazy critters tells it how it is :clap:. Big ups to Mr Macstar for his words of wisdom. None of the leave him alone he is a great rider and its just bad luck crap.

Hope dririder87 does take note of his advice. Can't argue that oil and diesel is hard work if you don't see it, but 4 bins ?

As I have said before, advice means more when it comes from someone you know and ultimately respect in some way, shape or form. This is the positive feedback some of these people need in order to change how they are riding and reduce the risks. Harder to say fuck off to someone online when you got to go riding with them again.

Personally the day I bin and survive will more than likely be the day I stop riding a motorbike. If I truly felt a bin was part of riding or inevitable then I wouldn't be doing it. With all my MTB crashes I have had, I know falling off my motorbike is going to fucking hurt, especially if it involves 100+ km/hr and other road users. 4 in such a short space of time, has to be brave or stupid <IMHO>.

Lets all have a happy and safe holiday with plenty of riding in there somewhere. :2thumbsup

[xwhatsit]

If I truly felt a bin was part of riding or inevitable then I wouldn't be doing it<imho>
I wish people would get that through their thick heads. Motorcycling and crashing is not inextricably tied together. Sure, it's inherently a higher risk occupation than droning about in a Volvo S40, but that's only if you crash in the first place. Let's all learn how to ride properly so we can avoid that.

I'm still willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. Out of four crashes (according to what he's said), two were due to mechanical issues with his bike (that he didn't pick up on -- I think I'd forgive him for that). This most recent one was due to wet roads and diesel fuel, which is something one learns how to avoid pretty quickly with a little experience on wet roads, but I'd suggest that that's still a fairly forgiveable mistake for a newb.

Just one was due to gross incompetence; running wide on a corner and hitting gravel. I did that once, a few days after I got my bike. I wasn't told to give up biking when I did that -- despite lacking any appropriate gear -- instead I was offered advice on how to avoid a repeat.

Macstar's comments give pause for thought, though. I'd make the unusual suggestion of avoiding group rides for the moment, and instead venture out with maybe one or at most two others. Choose gentle roads, and, most importantly, slow the fuck down.
</imho>

[discotex]

Personally the day I bin and survive will more than likely be the day I stop riding a motorbike. If I truly felt a bin was part of riding or inevitable then I wouldn't be doing it.


Motorcycling and crashing is not inextricably tied together.

Hmmm don't agree at all guys. Motorcycles are inherently unstable. They fall over without a stand. They only have two wheels, are harder to be seen, etc, etc.

Robignevil I personally think it unlikely that you could ride forever without a bin (including those that are not your fault). The odds are massively stacked against you. You can influence the odds but you can't escape them. A good rider will convert many potential bins to near misses but you can't control other people when you're on the road.

I do agree that we shouldn't use the inherent danger as an excuse for every crash that happens though. Too often people aren't prepared to look at how their own actions contributed to an bin and just put it down to "it's a bike.. shit happens".

Seems like that's really what you guys trying to say but there really are some bins that are freak accidents that wouldn't happen in a cage - blowouts are a prime example.

[Ixion]

Hmmm don't agree at all guys. Motorcycles are inherently unstable. They fall over without a stand. They only have two wheels, are harder to be seen, etc, etc.

Robignevil I personally think it unlikely that you could ride forever without a bin (including those that are not your fault). The odds are massively stacked against you. You can influence the odds but you can't escape them. A good rider will convert many potential bins to near misses but you can't control other people when you're on the road.

I do agree that we shouldn't use the inherent danger as an excuse for every crash that happens though. Too often people aren't prepared to look at how their own actions contributed to an bin and just put it down to "it's a bike.. shit happens".

Seems like that's really what you guys trying to say but there really are some bins that are freak accidents that wouldn't happen in a cage - blowouts are a prime example.

Such an attitude is a certain guarantee that you will indeed crash. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

"Forever" is a long time, and no-one probably escapes crashing "forever". But no-one needs to, none of us live for ever. I certainly see no reason why any rider should not expect to ride for the term of his natural life without crashing (I'm not talking about the 'fell over while putting the sidestand down' stuff here. Proper crashes).

A bike is only unstable when stationery or near so, Yes, then it will fall over. But a fall over at 2kph is not what we normally mean by crashing.

Once the bike is moving it is stable , and it is the riders job to keep it so. Come what may (and come it will , sooner or later). Blowouts you say? There are riders on this forum that have ridden out blowouts from high speed. If blowouts are what concerns you PRACTICE DEALING WITH THEM. You CAN ride on a flat tyre. I recently rode 30km home on a completely flat tyre. Whatever the road throws at you (short of a lighening strike maybe) it is your business to deal with it. You, and you alone because no-one else will give a stuff.

And the foremost secret to not crashing. REFUSE TO. Do NOT accept "I'm going to crash sooner or later". Set off every ride saying to yourself, and believing, "I am in control here. I REFUSE to crash, it is not an option". It will not guarantee that you will "never" crash. sometimes shit happens, and the Biker Gods just set you up as Patsy for Today. But those are rare, very rare. Planes crash too, but no-one gets on a plane expecting it is going to crash. and they very rarely do.

And what the Persian gentleman, a true biker wise beyond his years, said. Slow the fuck down. Yes, I know you already are, and your crashes (Mr Drider67's I mean ) were not high speed ones. Slow down anyway. Until you are confident that WHATEVER HAPPENS you can deal with it.

[mattwood]

bad luck mate.

i dont really know, but this is just a suggestion. how about riding a dirtbike or something, u get the hang of sliding and controling dangerous situations? plus theres not the added danger of being run over! :2thumbsup

[ital916]

Hey guys all good info and i'm absorbning it all. Oh macstar the tyre went flat when i was filling the air pressure up since i checked it and it was lower so i was at the petrol station fixing it!! I heard what you said and i put it into to use!

[ital916]

Cool so 've absorbed all the info now two seconds later, macstars words stung but helped. Merry christmas people. Hope your christmas season is bin free! Oh and have a happy new year for all those going away on hols.

[discotex]

Such an attitude is a certain guarantee that you will indeed crash. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

No it's not. In fact understanding the many reasons that may lead to a crash can help you avoid it.

I'd be interested to know what the stats are on bikers that ride more than 250,000km without a crash.



Once the bike is moving it is stable , and it is the riders job to keep it so. Come what may (and come it will , sooner or later). Blowouts you say? There are riders on this forum that have ridden out blowouts from high speed. If blowouts are what concerns you PRACTICE DEALING WITH THEM. You CAN ride on a flat tyre. I recently rode 30km home on a completely flat tyre. Whatever the road throws at you (short of a lighening strike maybe) it is your business to deal with it. You, and you alone because no-one else will give a stuff.

Yes many people do ride out blow-outs. I'm sure many crash from them too. Not from lack of skill but by pure chance. On the straight on the motorway vs mid corner for example.



And the foremost secret to not crashing. REFUSE TO. Do NOT accept "I'm going to crash sooner or later". Set off every ride saying to yourself, and believing, "I am in control here. I REFUSE to crash, it is not an option". It will not guarantee that you will "never" crash. sometimes shit happens, and the Biker Gods just set you up as Patsy for Today. But those are rare, very rare. Planes crash too, but no-one gets on a plane expecting it is going to crash. and they very rarely do.

While I agree with you idea to use positive visualisation to psych yourself away from crashing it doesn't stop reality happening and it sure as shit won't stop a freak accident ruining your day.

I think you know that too assuming you wear the gear.

[Ixion]

I'd be interested to know what the stats are on bikers that ride more than 250,000km without a crash.

While I agree with you idea to use positive visualisation to psych yourself away from crashing it doesn't stop reality happening and it sure as shit won't stop a freak accident ruining your day.



Plenty of riders (lots of them right here on this forum) who have gone 250000 km without a crash. And a good deal more than 250000 for that matter.

A freak accident is by definition a freak accident. Sure, nothing can stop the true freak event. But freaks are rare, that's the definition of the word. You might encounter that sort of crash once in a lifetime, if that.

And even the best and most careful rider can stuff up once in a while. If someone has a crash once every twenty years or so, that's probably in the "sooner or later" category. And there are LOTS of people here who have gone that sort of time crash free (as always, I'm not talking 'putting it on the stand' stuff).

One crash in 250000 km , or twenty years, isn't really what we're talking about though , is it? If every rider were to crash only once in twenty years, there would be very few "I binned it" reports on here.

It puzzles me that ,although bikes are inherently less likely to crash than cars, yet people who both drive and ride seem to accept crashing a bike as an everyday occurence, but would be horrified at the thought of crashing their car as often. As to reality, the reality I see is that a careful rider should have no more expectation of crashing than a careful driver in a car. Which is a very rare thing.

[discotex]

Plenty of riders (lots of them right here on this forum) who have gone 250000 km without a crash. And a good deal more than 250000 for that matter.

Many of them probably had a small off in their first 10000km though wouldn't you say? Certainly a fair number of people (I'd guess 50%) will have something happen in that first 10000km that they haven't built up the experience to deal with yet.



A freak accident is by definition a freak accident. Sure, nothing can stop the true freak event. But freaks are rare, that's the definition of the word. You might encounter that sort of crash once in a lifetime, if that.

And even the best and most careful rider can stuff up once in a while. If someone has a crash once every twenty years or so, that's probably in the "sooner or later" category. And there are LOTS of people here who have gone that sort of time crash free (as always, I'm not talking 'putting it on the stand' stuff).

Agree, that's all I'm really trying to say. One or two crashes over a lifetime of riding is highly likely but more than that means you likely have been making your own bad luck.


One crash in 250000 km , or twenty years, isn't really what we're talking about though , is it? If every rider were to crash only once in twenty years, there would be very few "I binned it" reports on here.

It was what I was talking about... Agree that OP's and many bins reported on KB were avoidable with more skill/knowledge/training.



It puzzles me that ,although bikes are inherently less likely to crash than cars, yet people who both drive and ride seem to accept crashing a bike as an everyday occurence, but would be horrified at the thought of crashing their car as often. As to reality, the reality I see is that a careful rider should have no more expectation of crashing than a careful driver in a car. Which is a very rare thing.

Do you think bikes really are inherently less likely to crash than cars? Why's that?

I drove a car for 14 years without crashing once. In less than a year I was hit by a car on my bike while doing almost everything right. You're welcome to dig up my crash report thread (What not to wear).

I don't expect to bin another bike for a long time unless it's on the track but I don't discount the possibility either through my own learning process or another bit of bad luck/timing.

[Ixion]

Many of them probably had a small off in their first 10000km though wouldn't you say? Certainly a fair number of people (I'd guess 50%) will have something happen in that first 10000km that they haven't built up the experience to deal with yet.


No, not really. Unless we include the "put foot down at traffic lights , oh shit it's slippery, oops" stuff. Or car park/off road oopsies when practising stuff like emergency breaking.




Agree, that's all I'm really trying to say. One or two crashes over a lifetime of riding is highly likely but more than that means you likely have been making your own bad luck.

I don't think I'd agree it's 'highly likely' . The objective is NO crashes and there are plenty of riders who achieve that But I'd agree that one or two in a lifetime (assuming that you ride the whole of that lifetime), is probably in the "shit happens" realm .



Do you think bikes really are inherently less likely to crash than cars? Why's that?

I drove a car for 14 years without crashing once. In less than a year I was hit by a car on my bike while doing almost everything right. You're welcome to dig up my crash report thread (What not to wear).

I don't expect to bin another bike for a long time unless it's on the track but I don't discount the possibility either through my own learning process or another bit of bad luck/timing.

Yes, certainly bikes are less likely to crash than cars (of course, when they DO, the result is likely to be nastier). Because a bike is so much more manoeuverable. And the roads are proportionately so much wider.

Obviously "almost everything right" was not quite "everything", cos the bastard still caught you.

But, I think it is very hard for people who have experience driving a car to learn to ride a bike without crashing. Because in a crisis they will instinctively do what works in a car which is often a BadIdea on a bike. Unlearning that conditioning is hard to do.

To be sure, one should never discount the POSSIBILITY of crashing. Just as one cannot discount the possibility of crashing when one gets on a plane, or the possibility of falling off when one climbs a ladder. But it should be a probability sufficiently remote that we consign it to the "too unlikely to worry about " bin . Nothing is totally safe. People have choked to death eating their dinner. But while I recognise the possibility it's sufficiently small that I'm not going to miss dinner on account of it.

[pritch]

Talking of bad luck, turns out my rear tires air plug is short and decided to bleed air,

Sorry, that's not bad luck!

The manual for every bike I've owned in recent years said replace tyres, not repair them.

Whether the "repair" was done out of parsimony or stupidity doesn't really matter. The results are potentially equally unfortunate.

At the risk of repeating myself, a Z rated tyre is rated suitable for a continuous 150 MPH. What do you reckon a "repaired" tyre is rated at?

Bear in mind, you are now going to go out and bet your life on it... :whistle:

Good luck.

[Ixion]

I think perhaps he meant the valve stem? Though I'm not sure how "short" figures in there, but I can't see how "short" would figure in a mushroom or 'dog turd' plug either (which I presume is what you are thinking of ? )

[Subike]

3 offs in 30 years of riding
one was beacuse I was a drunken idiot at age 21 full of bravado and totally indestructable. Ego was the cause of that one. Well deserved/
Two was a stupid windrow of pea shingle at 15 mph on a city corner/.
Three was the day I tried to ride a trail bike for the first time, Fuck that again! Tar seal for me.
As far as I am concerned, the speed is relitive to the road conditions.
Good road, good speed,
Rain, traffic, wind, traffic, snow, traffic, fog, traffic and finally traffic..
Ride within the conditions you are presented with
I own a 50cc suzuki for riding around towns, anything bigger is a waste of time . The exessive is for the open raod, unless touring.
The open road starts and ends at my front gate, so I am use to sencibile speeds every day.
Fall? Whats that? Na. Flat tyre, ride slow very slow if it is the front, but still ride, just hurts the wallet for a new tyre when you kill a tyre.
I learnt to reconise that I am softer than the road, and I dont want to meet it.
Speed is one hell of a buzz
But that buzz is tempered by style.
I have white hair from age not from stress

[ital916]

Yeah the thread on the valve is short so when trying to connect the hose at the gas station it tends to deflate the tyre unless you realllly jam it in there...pff fuck off on using a repaired tyre. I would replace it mate.

[Ixion]

This is a pretty much universal problem. You can buy special gizmos to connect , or do as I do and keep a small footpump at home .

[Macstar]

Hey guys all good info and i'm absorbning it all. Oh macstar the tyre went flat when i was filling the air pressure up since i checked it and it was lower so i was at the petrol station fixing it!! I heard what you said and i put it into to use!

Sorry Dushy, I apologise for getting that wrong. I made my comments on the info you had provided in the forum. As said however, I don't want to see any serious harm come to you and still believe you should contact Kittyhawk and have some sessions on the Mt Welly track.

[discotex]

No, not really. Unless we include the "put foot down at traffic lights , oh shit it's slippery, oops" stuff. Or car park/off road oopsies when practising stuff like emergency breaking.

You might be right but I do think learner riders (in Auckland) are likely to have at least one very near miss in that first 10000km. Probably many more and probably a simple mistake like grabbing a handful of brake will send them down. That goes to your later point that it's hard to learn to ride a bike (from a car or not) as your survival reactions are not so good on a bike.



I don't think I'd agree it's 'highly likely' . The objective is NO crashes and there are plenty of riders who achieve that But I'd agree that one or two in a lifetime (assuming that you ride the whole of that lifetime), is probably in the "shit happens" realm .

Ok fair enough. Agree to disagree in lieu of any reliable stats (which they wouldn't be even if either of us had some to hand).



Yes, certainly bikes are less likely to crash than cars (of course, when they DO, the result is likely to be nastier). Because a bike is so much more manoeuverable. And the roads are proportionately so much wider.

Hmmm that's true. I think it's a zero-sum game though. For each positive bikes have there is a negative. The much higher number of crashes per km travelled would tend to suggest they're more likely to crash in the hands of the average rider. I suspect that is partially due to the risk taking nature of people who ride (as a generalisation of the average biker).



Obviously "almost everything right" was not quite "everything", cos the bastard still caught you.

Sure did. I'd wager they would have got 9/10 riders too.



But, I think it is very hard for people who have experience driving a car to learn to ride a bike without crashing. Because in a crisis they will instinctively do what works in a car which is often a BadIdea on a bike. Unlearning that conditioning is hard to do.

I think everyone has to un-learn those reactions. The standard human reaction is to target fixate, chop the throttle and jump on the brakes. It's just that in a car you have more leway and are less likely to crash when you hit that puddle of oil you're fixated on.



To be sure, one should never discount the POSSIBILITY of crashing. Just as one cannot discount the possibility of crashing when one gets on a plane, or the possibility of falling off when one climbs a ladder. But it should be a probability sufficiently remote that we consign it to the "too unlikely to worry about " bin . Nothing is totally safe. People have choked to death eating their dinner. But while I recognise the possibility it's sufficiently small that I'm not going to miss dinner on account of it.

Totally agree. Life is too short to miss out based on what are still pretty good odds.

[Usarka]

Well anyway call me what you want but i'm not a bad rider, but i must have pissed some biker god off in my past life.

Thats what gets me. I've been riding for over 10 years and i still dont think im a good rider.....

[Ixion]

You might be right but I do think learner riders (in Auckland) are likely to have at least one very near miss in that first 10000km. ,,,,

Oh, if we're talking near misses, to be sure. I get one of those most days. Three on Friday, the idiots are out in force . A miss is as good as a mile.

[MDR2]

Sorry Dushy, I apologise for getting that wrong. I made my comments on the info you had provided in the forum. As said however, I don't want to see any serious harm come to you and still believe you should contact Kittyhawk and have some sessions on the Mt Welly track.

I can too recommend the Mt welly track. Having never actually ridden a bike at speed before it was mind blowing to find out how hard you can push a bike. I also found out theres limits to how fast you can go into a corner and how much brake you can grab leaning into it. ( could see i wasn't going to make it and tried to stand it up but it all went pear shaped :D)

Still , not like I had to worry about going under a car.

You will learn heaps and heaps and heaps. Even heaps and heaps and heaps more if you have people watching you and helping you out with ride style... hahaha actually, I was told If i wanted to go any faster around the corners i'd have to lean off the bike to get it down. I certainly had the entry speed but lacked the balls to put it down to get around the corner... hense the bail and crash. Wonderful fun though.

[howdamnhard]

Diesel and water is slipperier than ice.Hang in there and keep on riding.We all bin,glad you were not hurt.Hope things improve for you in the new year.


FFS! Just got the fucking indicators and headlights fixed today. Was riding home slowly since it was raining. Turned into ladies mile road and halfway through the corner rode through a nice big puddle of diesel! And i'm talking puddle! Good bye traction hello lowside. Took four guys to pick my bike up without sliding and falling over in the diesel! There goes my helmet, big hole in jacket and nice big fucking sore lump on my leg. Fucking hell how bad luck can a guy get, for fucking sake the biker gods could give me a bit of fucking leniancy! You know i wear the god damn high vis vest i have all the gear and i fucking ride safe! Go ahead i'm awaiting the insults and your a fucking idiot replies. This ain't gonna stop me from riding though. Damage is well nothing really the bike was already munted. Indicators work and so do the headlights, front brake lever now looks like a flowery garden ornament nice and curled.As well just before in the store, turns out that the bulbs the previous owner put in were too high or something melted and fucked the headlight unit!!! so one light works and the unit needs to be replaced. Sigh....i feel so down. So down. Well anyway call me what you want but i'm not a bad rider, but i must have pissed some biker god off in my past life.

Very Sad

Kinda Depressed

Stilll love riding

Very Sore

Gear Smells like diesel

Drider

[caseye]

Don't sweat it! no one can predict where the next diesel drop is going to be.
But you've got the right attitude, don't let em get ya down go out and say Buggerit I'm going to ride and i don't care about the cage dwellers ceptin of course to avoid em like the plague! bad luck bro but hey chin up and keep riding you'll start enjoying rides again and be better prepared next time.

[Tink]

FFS! Just got the fucking indicators and headlights fixed today. Was riding home slowly since it was raining. Turned into ladies mile road and halfway through the corner rode through a nice big puddle of diesel! And i'm talking puddle! Good bye traction hello lowside. Took four guys to pick my bike up without sliding and falling over in the diesel! There goes my helmet, big hole in jacket and nice big fucking sore lump on my leg. Fucking hell how bad luck can a guy get, for fucking sake the biker gods could give me a bit of fucking leniancy! You know i wear the god damn high vis vest i have all the gear and i fucking ride safe! Go ahead i'm awaiting the insults and your a fucking idiot replies. This ain't gonna stop me from riding though. Damage is well nothing really the bike was already munted. Indicators work and so do the headlights, front brake lever now looks like a flowery garden ornament nice and curled.As well just before in the store, turns out that the bulbs the previous owner put in were too high or something melted and fucked the headlight unit!!! so one light works and the unit needs to be replaced. Sigh....i feel so down. So down. Well anyway call me what you want but i'm not a bad rider, but i must have pissed some biker god off in my past life.

Very Sad

Kinda Depressed

Stilll love riding

Very Sore

Gear Smells like diesel

Drider

BUGGER!!!!:done:

[The Pastor]

BUGGER!!!!:done:
its cos some people just arnt cut out for motorcycling, you know they are arseholes

[tate35]

Insults Noooo....!!!! Sorry to hear that. That sux to say the least. And a reminder that this could happen to any of us anytime!!!

[marty]

i think he's recovered in the 20 months since the crash happened....