mum - job description [Archive]

Number One

19th December 2007, 08:02

If it had been presented this way, no one would have done it!!!!

POSITION : Mother, Mum, Mama, Mommy, Ma

JOB DESCRIPTION: Long term, team players needed, for challenging permanent work in an, often chaotic environment.
Candidates must possess excellent communication and organizational skills and be willing to work variable hours, which will include evenings and weekends and frequent 24 hour shifts on call. Some overnight travel required,
including trips to primitive camping sites on rainy weekends and endless sports tournaments in far away cities. Travel expenses not reimbursed. Extensive courier duties also required.

RESPONSIBILITIES: The rest of your life. Must be willing to be hated, at least temporarily, until someone needs a couple of bucks . Must be willing to bite tongue repeatedly. Also, must possess the physical stamina of a pack mule and be able to go from zero to 60 mph in three seconds flat in case, this time, the screams from the backyard are not someone just crying wolf. Must be willing to face stimulating technical challenges, such as small gadget repair, mysteriously sluggish toilets and stuck zippers. Must screen phone calls, maintain calendars and coordinate production of multiple homework projects. Must have ability to plan and organize social gatherings for clients of all ages and mental outlooks. Must be willing to be indispensable one minute, an embarrassment the next. Must handle assembly and product safety testing of a half million cheap, plastic toys, and battery operated devices. Must always hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. Must assume final, complete accountability for the quality of the end product.
Responsibilities also include floor maintenance and janitorial work throughout the facility.

POSSIBILITY FOR ADVANCEMENT & PROMOTION: Virtually none. Your job is to remain in the same position for years, without complaining, constantly
retraining and updating your skills, so that those in your charge can ultimately surpass you

PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE: None required unfortunately. On-the-job training offered on a continually exhausting basis.

WAGES AND COMPENSATION: Get this! You pay them! Offering frequent
raises and bonuses. A balloon payment is due when they turn 18 because of the assumption that college will help them become financially independent. When you die, you give them whatever is left. The oddest thing about this reverse-salary scheme is that you actually enjoy it and wish you could only
do more.

BENEFITS: While no health or dental insurance, no pension, no tuition reimbursement, no paid holidays and no stock options are offered; this job supplies limitless opportunities for personal growth and free hugs for life if
you play your cards right.

Thankgoodness I hadn't read this prior to having my boy...cos I consider him the best thing I've ever produced and wouldn't be without him! :yes:

deanohit

19th December 2007, 08:51

Bwahahaha, I passed this onto my mum and eagerly await the reply. =)

James Deuce

19th December 2007, 08:52

Yeah, yeah, Mum's are heroes and Dad's are child molesting, wife beating losers. We get it.

Number One

19th December 2007, 09:00

Yeah, yeah, Mum's are heroes and Dad's are child molesting, wife beating losers. We get it.

Settle down Jim :crybaby: that ain't the message at all...as a MUM I just haven't been provided with any 'celebrating dads' messages to post - but feel free to add some yourself if you feel that the Dads out there will be upset for being left out.

James Deuce

19th December 2007, 09:03

as a MUM I just haven't been provided with any 'celebrating dads' messages to post

There aren't any.

007XX

19th December 2007, 09:08

Settle down Jim :crybaby: that ain't the message at all...

Don't worry about him, he's just in need of a great big hug...(or trying to push your buttons, which is more likely...) :rolleyes:

Number One

19th December 2007, 09:08

There aren't any.

Bet ya a million bucks there are.....I'll have one up before end of day...Dads are fab tooo! My hubbie is a fantastic dad and his boy loves him and I love him more and more each day because of how fabbo a dad he is. :love::love:

James Deuce

19th December 2007, 09:22

Bet ya a million bucks there are.....I'll have one up before end of day...Dads are fab tooo! My hubbie is a fantastic dad and his boy loves him and I love him more and more each day because of how fabbo a dad he is. :love::love:

If it originates from NZ I'll buy you a beer. I'm just pissy in general I wasn't trying to cause you personal offense.

These posts just grate is all. I was watching something on telly about an ex-WW1 German Prisoner of war who elected to stay in NZ after the ware in in his late 80s early 90s used to pick neighbourhood kids up in his car and take them to the park and play with them to give the Mums a break and because he enjoyed kids. He had a tremendous stash of cash in his house and was murdered for it.

If I picked up the neighbourhood kids today and took them to the park I'd be in custody in a matter of hours.

Men aren't valued in NZ. Prostate Cancer kills far more of us than breast cancer kills women, but no one gives a shit, especially in "official health" circles. I've been continually told that I'm not welcome in ante-natal classes, the birthing process is none of my business, we don't like men at kindergarten because they are too challenging and set up competitive play, we'd rather talk to Mum as we're more likely to get a concession from her, special needs environments need to be calm and we do things this way because it works best for the female work force. blah blah blah.

There are a million "inspirational epithets" about Mum circling all over the place. Dads are supposed to STFU, HTFU, apologise for a couple of centuries of oppressing females (you "guys" seem to forget that prior to American and French revolution the majority of men didn't have the vote either and weren't allowed to own businesses or land) like we actively set out to do that despite being born into a different culture to the one we're supposed to all subscribe to and most of all never complain that we feel undervalued because that would be soft-cock in the extreme.

You don't want us teaching, in business, in the Police, in the Armed Forces, in politics, in health care, but you'll happily whinge at us to open a jam jar or make the computer do what it's supposed to. Oh, and you need to earn more money, work harder, spend more time with the kids and do more chores around the house. Never, ever advocate for your children. That just means you're trying to maintain the entrenched patriarchal attitudes prevalent in society, or molesting them, or beating them.

Number One

19th December 2007, 09:48

I hear you...and think it is pretty sad that things have gone too far in one the one direction....the higher suicide rate of men is I think a reflection of some of this too.

I do wonder how much of this is because you fellas don't stand up for yourselves or express things as openly as women though - support groups for men...they are out there and there are quite a few that I am aware of but they are not as well 'membered' as the womens groups are. Seems to me that too many men are just quietly resentful. Rise up, rise up maybe?

And as the mum of a boy with special needs I have a major concern about the lack of positive male rolemodels and how geared to girls things seem to be too but as someone who has had 'trouble with 'bad men'' I have to admit also that I'm rather protective and more suss about men I don't know than I am of women I don't know...it's double standard I know as women are as capable of dodgy stuff as men are but you don't hear so many stories about dodgy women do you? I should point out I wouldn't trust my boy to anyone I don't know BUT NOR would I ostrisize a man...I'll admit I was one of the only women in the coffee group who used to sit and chat with the one lonely dad...and that was sad!

I recognise there are crap dads AND MUMs out there but I do also feel that men are getting a raw deal, can't win no matter what they do and that things need to shift into the middle ground again...but how does this happen as society does seem to have a seriously bad mental model.

007XX

19th December 2007, 10:16

Men aren't valued in NZ. Prostate Cancer kills far more of us than breast cancer kills women, but no one gives a shit, especially in "official health" circles. I've been continually told that I'm not welcome in ante-natal classes, the birthing process is none of my business, we don't like men at kindergarten because they are too challenging and set up competitive play, we'd rather talk to Mum as we're more likely to get a concession from her, special needs environments need to be calm and we do things this way because it works best for the female work force. blah blah blah.

.

In one word, and I'm not sorry if I offend anyone: F*&k that!!!

A man and a woman are meant to be a team in their parenting role. Should you be in any way made to feel unwelcome to a birthing unit, kindergarten, ante-natal classes (which btw I think are BS), I feel you should be entitled to creating a bloody uproar about it :mad: That is complete and utter nonsense!!!

Should I ever get pregnant again, and anyone telling my husband that he cannot be beside me in any of these events, they will certainly get the response of the nastiest bitch on this surface of the planet.

Jim2, I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that the feminist movement in NZ has gotten out of hand, and quite honnestly sometimes, I am wondering where it is all going to lead us to.

But not all women are like that, so just keep a side of your opinion open for those of us who are not stereotypical (I bet you that would apply to a lot of the ladies on KB).

ManDownUnder

19th December 2007, 10:28

There are a million "inspirational epithets" about Mum circling all over the place. Dads are supposed to STFU, HTFU, apologise for a couple of centuries of oppressing females ...etc...

Hey Jim - I hear it, live with it, see much of it and I can disagree with it but mostly only at an academic level - but this ain't the place for it man.

But not all women are like that, so just keep a side of your opinion open for those of us who are not stereotypical (I bet you that would apply to a lot of the ladies on KB).

Now that's something I will attest to.

devnull

19th December 2007, 10:29

Excellent... just sent that to my wife :laugh:

Have a read of this guy's article on the piss poor society we have
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_oh_to_be.html

Though it's written about the UK, it parallels NZ

MSTRS

19th December 2007, 10:31

- support groups for men...they are out there and there are quite a few that I am aware of but they are not as well 'membered' as the womens groups are. Seems to me that too many men are just quietly resentful. Rise up, rise up maybe?

Ain't that the truth...
It's cos men no longer dare to beat their chests and proclaim themselves the 'head of the house', and when we try, we are accused of being Neanderthals only one generation out of the cave.
If we 'rise up', we are incipient rapists. If we speak up, we are trying to turn the clock back. We are second-class citizens now.
Do we really have to go through the same shit as women did for so long, and the stuff they did to get out from under?
Nothing will be fair or equitable until it is recognised that men and women are not equal. Nature has seen to that.
Legislation etc won't change that. Nurture won't change that.
Normal service will not resume until women accept that their role is to nurture and men's is to provide the means to do that.
:girlfight:

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 10:32

Well I must of missed out somewhere.......

My ex never cooked, even when Nats was born. I did her ironing and when Nats was young I got out of bed, took Nats to Mum for feeding and took back to bed afterwards.

We are out there but sadly society is still very much about the mother comes first so have had heaps of trubs getting health providers to recognise that I exist even though they know I have equal shared custody....you feel like a trouble maker but I don't let that bother me and I guess that is where a lot of Dad's drop back from things.

I would never join a mens group because they are too anti stuff.

The only one who can fight battles is me.........

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 10:33

Ain't that the truth...
It's cos men no longer dare to beat their chests and proclaim themselves the 'head of the house', and when we try, we are accused of being Neanderthals only one generation out of the cave.
If we 'rise up', we are incipient rapists. If we speak up, we are trying to turn the clock back. We are second-class citizens now.
Do we really have to go through the same shit as women did for so long, and the stuff they did to get out from under?
Nothing will be fair or equitable until it is recognised that men and women are not equal. Nature has seen to that.
Legislation etc won't change that. Nurture won't change that.
Normal service will not resume until women accept that their role is to nurture and men's is to provide the means to do that.
:girlfight:

Are you beating your chest again?

MSTRS

19th December 2007, 10:36

Are you beating your chest again?

I wouldn't dare. I'm just siding with Jim2 cos there's safety in numbers....

007XX

19th December 2007, 10:42

Now that's something I will attest to.

Cheers Buddy.

Ain't that the truth...
It's cos men no longer dare to beat their chests and proclaim themselves the 'head of the house',

I like it when my man beats his chest...masculine is sexy! A woman who's self secure enough in herself would not feel threatened by a small display of machism from her other half.

If men let women shop and talk about handbags, have girly nights and just be women, and women let guys four wheel drive, get drunk and raucous occasionally without making them feel like losers, then the world would be a better place I think...
this may be a succinct description, but I'm sure you'll know what I mean.

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 10:42

I wouldn't dare. I'm just siding with Jim2 cos there's safety in numbers....

What a nice man you are.............so there are now 2 of you......only need 3 and you have a riot on your hands........

ManDownUnder

19th December 2007, 10:43

If men let women shop and talk about handbags, have girly nights and just be women, and women let guys four wheel drive, get drunk and raucous occasionally without making them feel like losers, then the world would be a better place I think...

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 10:48

Cheers Buddy.

I like it when my man beats his chest...masculine is sexy! A woman who's self secure enough in herself would not feel threatened by a small display of machism from her other half.

If men let women shop and talk about handbags, have girly nights and just be women, and women let guys four wheel drive, get drunk and raucous occasionally without making them feel like losers, then the world would be a better place I think...
this may be a succinct description, but I'm sure you'll know what I mean.

Now I know where I went wrong...I let my ex do the girly thing but forgot to get drunk and raucous...............stuff the birds and bees chat.......

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 10:52

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have heard that is only as long as you last!!!

007XX

19th December 2007, 11:19

stuff the birds and bees chat.......

Aw C'mon ...it's an awesome conversation. If I can explain it to my 10 year old, I'm sure I can sort you out...:rolleyes: :laugh:

MSTRS

19th December 2007, 11:23

Cheers Buddy.

I like it when my man beats his chest...masculine is sexy! A woman who's self secure enough in herself would not feel threatened by a small display of machism from her other half.

If men let women shop and talk about handbags, have girly nights and just be women, and women let guys four wheel drive, get drunk and raucous occasionally without making them feel like losers, then the world would be a better place I think...
this may be a succinct description, but I'm sure you'll know what I mean.

Did you mean 'macho-ness' or 'masochism'...
You are absolutely right for the rest of it.

Number One

19th December 2007, 11:30

as promised here is an ode to dads :2thumbsup....caught it on the radio this morning and it made me think of my man and my own daddy.
Love you both heaps and heaps and feel privelaged to have you both in my life! :first::love::2thumbsup:hug:

Here’s to the Fathers

Here’s to the fathers, who always begin,
On the outside of children, but looking in.
Such curious men snapping cameras like mad,
Recording the moment, they turn into “Dad.”

Here’s to the fathers, who put in their time,
Who don’t say to Mother, that’s your job, not mine.
Who wipe chins and noses and never say “won’t”
Who do with the nappies, what some fathers don’t.

Here’s to the fathers who manage to stay,
When so many fathers are turning away,
When so many run, leaving families to rot,
Here, then, a cheer, for those who do not.

Here’s to the fathers whose big money dreams,
Die in the corner, while their baby screams.
And yet without anger, dread or regrets,
They comfort the child and hold it close to their chests.
And as the child grows, they grow with it too,
Learning a depth, that they never knew.

And soon they are older, their hair slightly gone,
Chasing two children around the front lawn.
Or carpooling teams to rugby and netball games
Buying them hamburgers after it rains
They mend broken dolls and fix broken wheels,
They cringe when their daughters try their first pair of heels.
They reach in their pockets, but never keep count,
They pay dear for parenthood, awful amounts
They postpone their plans to sail across seas,
Instead they sing “wiggles” and bandage skinned knees.

Here’s to the fathers who miss on promotions,
Who forego the bonus, for birthday commotions.
Who come home from work and a boss they don’t like,
Pull into the driveway and run over a bike.

Here’s to the fathers who get off the phone,
To hear their sons practice their new saxophone.
Who leave work to see their daughters recital,
Here’s to the heroes who work without title.

For this is a world now full of neglect
With everyday stories of lives that are wreckend.
Of fatherless children who take up with gums,
To kill other children of fatherless sons.
Divorce shattered families, childhoods derailed,
Mothers still waiting for checks still unmailed.
You wonder what wrongs these souls ever did,
To make a grown man turn away from his kids.

So here’s to the fathers who won’t compromise,
Who see a light shining in their children’s eyes.
And feel a rare glow as if from a gem,
And know that once someone saw this glow in them.
For all the good boys, they have raised in the world
For all the examples they set for their girls,
For all the loved children, whose stories they’ll tell.
Here’s to the father’s that taught them so well.

007XX

19th December 2007, 11:31

Did you mean 'macho-ness' or 'masochism'...
You are absolutely right for the rest of it.

Sorry, I meant Machismo...from spanish:

"According to the Merriam-Webster online, the English word machismo is derived from Spanish macho, which means "male [animal]" or, when used metaphorically, "virile".[2]"

007XX

19th December 2007, 11:34

as promised here is an ode to dads :2thumbsup....caught it on the radio this morning and it made me think of my man and my own daddy.
Love you both heaps and heaps and feel privelaged to have you both in my life! :first::love::2thumbsup:hug:

Here’s to the Fathers

....

Was it from Polly on 91zm? Cos she's another one I wouldn't call a stereotypical kiwi woman...she's awesome!

And I have heard her read this poem a couple of times now, and everytime, I am not ashamed to admit that I cry.

fark, I miss my dad right now...

Number One

19th December 2007, 11:35

Sure was and yes I too shed a tear!

Ocean1

19th December 2007, 11:35

yungatart

19th December 2007, 11:38

Awesome Mums and aaaaawesome Dads...now I'll drink to that!!

Those of you out there doing the hard yards and daily grind with/because of your kids, I salute you.
You truly do make the world go around...yes. even you, Jim2!

Number One

19th December 2007, 11:40

I was driving to work one morning a couple of years ago when I saw a girl, around 13, lying on a park lawn, partially hidden by shrubs. So I slowed a bit and looked closer. No movement, so I stopped.

She wasn't completely unconcious, but not really coherent either. I thought I understood her to say that she was a diebetic. As I put her in the car I thought "this can't look good". It hit me then what the true cost of society's over-reaction to the growth in poor male behaviour was: I felt like a criminal, and I hated the fact that some may have behaved differently because of that.

I called *555 on the way to the local ED and heard myself defending my actions. A nurse was waiting in the car park when I got there, the first thing she said was "It's OK, we know her, and thank you very much".

I hung around for 30min, it'd apparently been more serious than I'd thought but she was going to be fine. I was quite depressed about my own reactions though.

Good on you for doing the right thing despite those feelings...we need more good honest men to do just that! Big ups - her daddy (and mummy) I'm sure were damn pleased you did what you did!:first:

KATWYN

19th December 2007, 11:41

Thankgoodness I hadn't read this prior to having my boy...cos I consider him the best thing I've ever produced and wouldn't be without him! :yes:

Well i'm expecting mine in 8 weeks! that description looks like fun - not :blink:

007XX

19th December 2007, 11:44

I was driving to work one morning a couple of years ago when I saw a girl, around 13, lying on a park lawn, partially hidden by shrubs. So I slowed a bit and looked closer. No movement, so I stopped.

She wasn't completely unconcious, but not really coherent either. I thought I understood her to say that she was a diebetic. As I put her in the car I thought "this can't look good". It hit me then what the true cost of society's over-reaction to the growth in poor male behaviour was: I felt like a criminal, and I hated the fact that some may have behaved differently because of that.

I called *555 on the way to the local ED and heard myself defending my actions. A nurse was waiting in the car park when I got there, the first thing she said was "It's OK, we know her, and thank you very much".

I hung around for 30min, it'd apparently been more serious than I'd thought but she was going to be fine. I was quite depressed about my own reactions though.

:hug: :hug: :hug: Only another validation (although not needed) of why I think you're one of the good ones.

Like TonyB, MSTRS, Grahameeboy, Jim2, MDU, Colapop...to name a few. You guys rock and are truly good men. Bravo for being who you are!:first:

Awesome Mums and aaaaawesome Dads...now I'll drink to that!!

Those of you out there doing the hard yards and daily grind with/because of your kids, I salute you.
You truly do make the world go around...yes. even you, Jim2!

:drinkup: I've got a glass raised to that right now...may be only fruit juice, but hell give me a break, it's only lunchtime :o

Number One

19th December 2007, 11:46

Well i'm expecting mine in 8 weeks! that description looks like fun - not :blink:

I don't think it's as desperate as that paints it and the upsides are stronger, deeper and much much better than the downsides. To appreciate the good we have to have a little tough....

KATWYN

19th December 2007, 11:47

I've been continually told that I'm not welcome in ante-natal classes, the birthing process is none of my business,

One thing that annoys me is the idea that the birthing process involves just the mother to be.

From my experience so far men play a huge role during the pregnancy and the birth as regards emotional support. I believe the final outcome is largely due to the emotional (and physical) support he has given her during that vulnerable time.

For men to say they only played a small role in it all are underestimating themselves

Pwalo

19th December 2007, 12:01

Well i'm expecting mine in 8 weeks! that description looks like fun - not :blink:

Don't stress, there is no job description for being a parent, either mother or father. Well actually there are certain bits that seem to go with being male or female. Especially if you have boys.

You'll make it up as you go along, just like everyone else does. And you'll realise that your parents actually knew a few things as well. Well sometimes.

Good luck with the imminent arrival. Sleep, a lot.

James Deuce

19th December 2007, 12:09

One thing that annoys me is the idea that the birthing process involves just the mother to be.

From my experience so far men play a huge role during the pregnancy and the birth as regards emotional support. I believe the final outcome is largely due to the emotional (and physical) support he has given her during that vulnerable time.

For men to say they only played a small role in it all are underestimating themselves

That poem is lovely Number One, but Ocean's post shows that the damage is done. I would've rung the Police and waited for them to arrive. I wouldn't have intervened as Ocean did.

Yes Katwyn that is true, if the Midwife will allow it to happen. My wife was nearly dead when I arrived at hospital for the birth of my first because the Midwife would not talk to me on the phone after I took her BP and found it to be 180/120. Toxemia on the way. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not trustworthy that my information was wrong and I should give her a bowl of Parsley and get her to put her feet up. I pointed out that we weren't talking labour, we were talking a serious medical condition 4 weeks out from the due date and we were coming in.

My first was delivered 20 minutes after we arrived, by C-Section. The Obstetrician had to summon a crash cart and ED team when we arrived. When I laid a formal complaint against the midwife it was dismissed because as a man I placed too much importance on medicalising the birthing process. I believe I had grounds for a criminal prosecution, but the Police refused to accept my charges. I guess two manslaughter charges were a bit much, but my wife was almost dead and my first child was also compromised as a result.

No, my opinion and help isn't wanted. It's a cultural and social issue now. No poem, however lovely is going to make me feel better about the fact that a midwife would rather my wife and child had died than have to accept that my assessment of her physical condition was correct.

Number One

19th December 2007, 12:19

That's bloody awful - I hope that cow isn't practising anywhere anymore!

Pwalo

19th December 2007, 12:24

That poem is lovely Number One, but Ocean's post shows that the damage is done. I would've rung the Police and waited for them to arrive. I wouldn't have intervened as Ocean did.

Yes Katwyn that is true, if the Midwife will allow it to happen. My wife was nearly dead when I arrived at hospital for the birth of my first because the Midwife would not talk to me on the phone after I took her BP and found it to be 180/120. Toxemia on the way. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not trustworthy that my information was wrong and I should give her a bowl of Parsley and get her to put her feet up. I pointed out that we weren't talking labour, we were talking a serious medical condition 4 weeks out from the due date and we were coming in.

My first was delivered 20 minutes after we arrived, by C-Section. The Obstetrician had to summon a crash cart and ED team when we arrived. When I laid a formal complaint against the midwife it was dismissed because as a man I placed too much importance on medicalising the birthing process. I believe I had grounds for a criminal prosecution, but the Police refused to accept my charges. I guess two manslaughter charges were a bit much, but my wife was almost dead and my first child was also compromised as a result.

No, my opinion and help isn't wanted. It's a cultural and social issue now. No poem, however lovely is going to make me feel better about the fact that a midwife would rather my wife and child had died than have to accept that my assessment of her physical condition was correct.

Holy shit. I'm glad the boys were born prior to the whole mid wife saga, and my wife was looked after by our family doctor.

I do think that Doctors and mid wives look at the birth process entirely differently. The first as an outcome and the second as an end in itself. I've always seen birth as a time you want everything on stand by, regardless of how natural it is.

ManDownUnder

19th December 2007, 12:29

Mate - you did the right thing, consequences be damned. I'll tell the judge that if my day ever comes too.

I was driving to work one morning a couple of years ago when I saw a girl, around 13, lying on a park lawn, partially hidden by shrubs. So I slowed a bit and looked closer. No movement, so I stopped.

She wasn't completely unconcious, but not really coherent either. I thought I understood her to say that she was a diebetic. As I put her in the car I thought "this can't look good". It hit me then what the true cost of society's over-reaction to the growth in poor male behaviour was: I felt like a criminal, and I hated the fact that some may have behaved differently because of that.

I called *555 on the way to the local ED and heard myself defending my actions. A nurse was waiting in the car park when I got there, the first thing she said was "It's OK, we know her, and thank you very much".

I hung around for 30min, it'd apparently been more serious than I'd thought but she was going to be fine. I was quite depressed about my own reactions though.

Ocean1

19th December 2007, 12:40

That poem is lovely Number One, but Ocean's post shows that the damage is done. I would've rung the Police and waited for them to arrive. I wouldn't have intervened as Ocean did.

Ocean, however, declines to modify his behaviour to accomodate current prejudices. Sometimes that genuinely does make him just plain anti-social and hard to live with. But some behaviour he sees as a nescessary personal component, a point of honour.

Yes Katwyn that is true, if the Midwife will allow it to happen.

At least one... relevant facility was, at one point, staffed exclusively by members of a particular religious denomination. Several others throughout NZ substantially so. I had, (and still have) reservations about how that affected the delivery of the services supplied. The situation may well have changed in recent years, and the fact isn't required to explain simple poor performance.

KATWYN

19th December 2007, 13:03

All I can say is that is shocking to hear Jim; and i'm sorry you, your wife and child were put through all that!

imdying

19th December 2007, 13:15

*rant snipped*Yes yes, some days the wife won't put out for the rest us too ya know... (well, not me, I've got mine properly trained and all :D)

James Deuce

19th December 2007, 13:16

At least one... relevant facility was, at one point, staffed exclusively by members of a particular religious denomination. Several others throughout NZ substantially so. I had, (and still have) reservations about how that affected the delivery of the services supplied. The situation may well have changed in recent years, and the fact isn't required to explain simple poor performance.

If anything it has gotten worse. You can see why they used to burn them at the stake now.

James Deuce

19th December 2007, 13:16

Yes yes, some days the wife won't put out for the rest us too ya know... (well, not me, I've got mine properly trained and all :D)
I haven't got time for luxuries.

imdying

19th December 2007, 13:19

I haven't got time for luxuries.Yeah... it's sounding very much like you should start making time :yes: :hug:

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 13:23

I haven't got time for luxuries.

Life is not a luxury Sir Jim..........nor is that Ducati 998s I looked at yesterday.....it is an essential too:niceone:

onearmedbandit

19th December 2007, 13:42

Isn't this the jokes and humour section of the forum?

MSTRS

19th December 2007, 13:45

...your point being....?

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 13:52

Isn't this the jokes and humour section of the forum?

What you mean that Mothers should not be respected for what they do.......:girlfight:

jrandom

19th December 2007, 14:10

that Ducati 998s I looked at yesterday.....it is an essential too

I'm glad to see that my subtle ongoing influence is bearing fruit.

:yes:

jrandom

19th December 2007, 14:17

OK, since James Deuce gets to rant, I'll stick me oar in too.

As an estranged father, it annoys me to see dads who don't live with their kids stigmatised as "abandoners" and "non-providers".

My kids cost me plenty of cash, both in the form of regular child support payments and in the various 'emergencies' that Dad's income is required to cover.

I regularly burn gallons of gas and hours of time charging around Auckland picking them up and dropping them off, and it's time with me that they look forward to on the weekends.

It's not always a lack of love for his children that drives a man away from the family home.

:no:

Number One

19th December 2007, 14:30

OK, since James Deuce gets to rant, I'll stick me oar in too.

As an estranged father, it annoys me to see dads who don't live with their kids stigmatised as "abandoners" and "non-providers".

Given what you've said about how you are still in the picture and being supportive and loving and involved I don't see that that qualifies you as estranged......

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 14:35

+1

Yep when the Father is the main breadwinner and has to pay loads of dosh in child support, like you Sir, who cannot give up or take a drop in salary which would free up more time to have custody, you don't have many choices.

Even having equal shared custody would simply reduce the payments to the ex but then the savings would be needed for your half etc etc so the job still creates a pain.

What people forget is that the Father has made a huge sacrifice by ensuring that the kids get what they need v's quality time. The latter is important, however, kids need a provider too.

For me I have sacrificed a lot financially to have shared custody although my ex was the buck earner so for me it was not such a hard route and I don't have to pay her support either....hopefully I have the right balance for me and Nats

Grahameeboy

19th December 2007, 14:36

Given what you've said about how you are still in the picture and being supportive and loving and involved I don't see that that qualifies you as estranged......

Take the e off and you will be close to it......I know he lives with me!!

Number One

19th December 2007, 14:39

Ha ha! :clap:

MisterD

19th December 2007, 16:39

No, my opinion and help isn't wanted. It's a cultural and social issue now. No poem, however lovely is going to make me feel better about the fact that a midwife would rather my wife and child had died than have to accept that my assessment of her physical condition was correct.

Fuck that is shocking. I thought my experiences with my wife's post-caesar complications were bad, but your story leaves me utterly speechless.

It took me accusing some abdominal specialist consultant-wallah of "un-scientific thinking bordering on guesswork" to properly get their attention...it's another subject, I know but whatever happened to that implict trust we used to have in doctors?