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dashR
5th November 2004, 20:29
Hello, I'm DashR

I bailed from my RGV250 on the way to work on tuesday. Was about to start overtaking the traphic that was at a standstill towards the hobsonville bridge in Auckland. I hit a white line when I hit the gas, and went down. I got a bit waisted due to the handlebars (Puncture wound that needed surgery), and had to get an ambulance.

The cops are charging now me for "Careless Driving" after "Investigations" and want me to show up in court. I was going like 50km/hr, didnt even get out of my lane and didnt hit anyone, why the hell would they charge me for it?, I wouldnt give a shit if they sent me a ticket, but to actually take me to court for an offence :angry2:

Now to make things worse, it was on my second day of work at a new job and I still havent finished at uni. And my GSXR 750 needs a engine rebuild.

Dam I've had a bad week, but how could the cops be such :moon: 's

sAsLEX
5th November 2004, 20:32
hey,welcome to the site, the judge has the ability to be lenient (sp?) so go there positive and you might get a slap on the wrists or a warning, hopefully.

marty
5th November 2004, 20:38
i don't think speeling is an ishu hair

Paul in NZ
5th November 2004, 20:47
Bummer!

Perhaps a counter claim to the local (or national) body that has responsibility for that stretch of road for failing to provide a safe environment could be in order? Find a lawyer will in to work pro bono.

In the meanwhile (sorry, been drinkin agin) take pictures and present you own evidence.

Those white lines can be bloody dangerous!

sAsLEX
5th November 2004, 20:51
the tar snakes are starting to come out with summer as well, they can cover entir corners not leaving a clean line through bloody anoyying having the tires squirilling around (nb not drifting)

marty
5th November 2004, 21:21
oooh it's a dangrouse world out there.

dashR
5th November 2004, 21:35
I think i'll take pauls advice, need some pictures of the road and my tyres. Will be interesting to see what the police have as evidence.

marty
6th November 2004, 10:07
the fact that you arsed off your bike on a perfectly good stretch of straight road while overtaking will be a start

NC
6th November 2004, 10:19
So you were lane-splitting?

Ms Piggy
6th November 2004, 10:31
Stink one mate. Don't stress about Uni - you'll be able to get agretat or impaired performance. Do as Paul said, you can get free legal advice via Citizens Advice Bureau.

Glad you're still standing and not another biker wiped out.

wari
6th November 2004, 10:52
TEll ya what ...

I HAve some sympathy here ...

SOmetimes theres more white paint on the road than tarseale ...

TRyin' to picka line throughitt is not that easy ... :eyepoke:

dashR
6th November 2004, 11:30
So you were lane-splitting?

Nah, wasnt lane splitting, had just approached traphic that was stoped and only had one lane and a no-mans land. Didnt even get to overtaking until I was sliding on my backside. Would of sliped off when accerating quick towards the line from about 30 to 50Km/hr.

BTW I know my bike, been riding it for about 3 years. I've managed save a massive tank slapper on it at 130Km/hr which was caused from a bump in the road.

scroter
6th November 2004, 11:30
accidents involving just one vehicle seems to be followed up by a careless driving charge almost regardless of your reason. you should do your best to try and get off without conviction because careless use can be an issue with insurance companies.

NC
6th November 2004, 12:32
Nah, wasnt lane splitting, had just approached traphic that was stoped and only had one lane and a no-mans land. Didnt even get to overtaking until I was sliding on my backside. Would of sliped off when accerating quick towards the line from about 30 to 50Km/hr.


Freaky shit :disapint:

Hope you heal up soon, dude.

spudchucka
6th November 2004, 12:49
accidents involving just one vehicle seems to be followed up by a careless driving charge almost regardless of your reason. you should do your best to try and get off without conviction because careless use can be an issue with insurance companies.
Thats because in almost all cases where a person has lost control of their vehicle there is a factor of carelessness involved. A simple missjudgement of space, road conditions, white lines, road curvature still amounts to carelessness because the person in control of the vehicle should be identifying hazards as they drive.

ResidentAngel
6th November 2004, 16:11
I think i'll take pauls advice, need some pictures of the road and my tyres. Will be interesting to see what the police have as evidence.

Check the road for diesel spills, and for loose metal that the local council should have swept up. There has to be a reason for losing it, and if you reckon its not you, then you need to find out why, even if only for your own eddification.
Tessie

Motu
6th November 2004, 16:55
I can understand slipping on white lines under emergancy braking - you are committed to a line and it's very difficult to take avoiding action and at the same time not hit a slippery road marking (actualy I find them not very slippery these days,comments older riders?) But sliding and falling off under acceleration?
As spudchucker says,that's under the riders control.I've done it myself - but an XS1 is in a league of it's own,far more power to the rear wheel than any of you guys here could handle - mind you I only went sideways...they are designed to do that.

wari
6th November 2004, 17:26
... ANd I was arse-suming wet AUckland ... :yeah:

BUt its bin dry 'asn'tit ? ... :eyepoke:

GO figure ...

STrange but true ...

I SHould read things propperly ...

DRinke more ..

EAt less ... :doobey:

Joni
6th November 2004, 17:36
... ANd I was arse-suming wet AUckland ... :yeah:

BUt its bin dry 'asn'tit ? ... :eyepoke:

GO figure ...

STrange but true ...

I SHould read things propperly ...

DRinke more ..

EAt less ... :doobey:

Drink more.... eat less...
I must remember those words of wisdom.

Hey its Satrurday night, where the music Wari? :spudbooge

marty
6th November 2004, 18:18
bit like 'eatin's cheatin'

Two Smoker
6th November 2004, 18:22
a balanced diet is a beer in each hand.......

JohnBoy
7th November 2004, 08:51
just get a really good lawyer, the coppers will have some bizzare idea of what they thinks happened. just say that you were committed to a line, explain how you can just shift lines cause it was too busy and just say that it is just one of those things. hopefully the JP will understand and see that you have already suffered enough!

spudchucka
7th November 2004, 09:34
just get a really good lawyer, the coppers will have some bizzare idea of what they thinks happened. just say that you were committed to a line, explain how you can just shift lines cause it was too busy and just say that it is just one of those things. hopefully the JP will understand and see that you have already suffered enough!
You obviously haven't been in court all that often.

I've seen plenty of people try the "its just one of those things" defence, not to mention the "its the roads fault - not mine" defence, then theres the "I'm broke and this has already cost me a fortune" defence and the "there was cow shit on the road" defence often comes up too.

I've never seen anyone get off a careless charge using such an excuse.

What does the court concern itself with?

You were in control of a vehicle and you lost control of that vehicle - FACT.

By all means offer an explanation as to why you lost control but it will have to be a pretty compelling one to convince the court. Don't forget that if you stand up in court and offer some lame excuse you will be cross examined by the prosecution, 99.99% of the times I've seen this in court the defendant ends up hanging themselves.

Getting a "really good lawyer" in most cases will just add to the amount the whole thing has cost you.

2_SL0
7th November 2004, 09:50
Stand up and take it like a man. Dont piss around trying to get out of it, your waste your time and money. Unless you have a very good geniune reason, get in, pay up and get back out. Dont waste your time or money trying to get off. I hate to agree with Spud ( :Pokey: ) but its black and white for the court system.

marty
7th November 2004, 11:32
Stand up and take it like a man. Dont piss around trying to get out of it, your waste your time and money. Unless you have a very good geniune reason, get in, pay up and get back out. Dont waste your time or money trying to get off. I hate to agree with Spud ( :Pokey: ) but its black and white for the court system.
of course you could go to a recognised track day with instructors - tell them what happened, get a completion certificate, write in pleading guilty, tell them how remorseful you are, and how much this incident has woken you up to riding defensively, and ask nicely for a discharge without conviction. unless you've got previous this often works, especially at the bigger courts.

2_SL0
7th November 2004, 14:08
of course you could go to a recognised track day with instructors - tell them what happened, get a completion certificate, write in pleading guilty, tell them how remorseful you are, and how much this incident has woken you up to riding defensively, and ask nicely for a discharge without conviction. unless you've got previous this often works, especially at the bigger courts.


You could but no guarantee that it will work. I dont believe it would, but by all means give that a go. But I would not hire yourself a fancy lawyer and attempt
to argue the charge. (without good cause and serious proof of a error on their behalf being made)

My point is weigh up the time and cost these options will take and the chance that it may or may not work and base your decision purely on that. It does not matter whether your right, wrong, Jamican, Nazi, Swiss, a tree hugger, or Vegatarian. If your lucky your get a judge who is having a good day. :no:

dashR
7th November 2004, 14:11
of course you could go to a recognised track day with instructors - tell them what happened, get a completion certificate, write in pleading guilty, tell them how remorseful you are, and how much this incident has woken you up to riding defensively, and ask nicely for a discharge without conviction. unless you've got previous this often works, especially at the bigger courts.

I did a defensive driving course way back to get my licence quicker, but I dont know how that could help. I'll be checking out the road tommorow, then I can really figure out why the bike slid out. But it will probably look like thier was an additional factor on the road as it was dry conditions.

JohnBoy
7th November 2004, 21:22
You obviously haven't been in court all that often.


no... i try too keep my nose clean these days.
but i still stand by the fact of a good lawyer... but only on the condition that you have a good case and if you were to win it would be more benefical to pay thier cost than to pay the gov. personally i would pay for the lawyer cause the extra points on your licence (if applicable) will come back and haunt you later.
i had a issue a few years back where the member of the public complained about my driving, i didn't admit it and i wasn't caught by the police. but still ended up with 150$ fine and 20 pts, ever since i wish that i had contested it!

scumdog
8th November 2004, 07:34
no...
i had a issue a few years back where the member of the public complained about my driving, i didn't admit it and i wasn't caught by the police. but still ended up with 150$ fine and 20 pts, ever since i wish that i had contested it!

Yes, but WAS your driving that bad? that the public complained about it? - THAT is the real issue, not that "I didn't admit it" or "I wasn't caught by the Police" :Playnice:

dashR
8th November 2004, 14:34
I checked out the road today, there is a big pile of gravel where I fell off.

Motu
8th November 2004, 15:36
Hmmm,still gunna be close,they may still want to know why you were accelerating in such a situation - maybe if you said you were braking on the easeway for turning right...there's shops and maybe a road on the right,correct?

dashR
8th November 2004, 15:49
Hmmm,still gunna be close,they may still want to know why you were accelerating in such a situation - maybe if you said you were braking on the easeway for turning right...there's shops and maybe a road on the right,correct?

Yep, but I think accerlating should be no problem, cause I had to slow right down in my lane because of the car infront, plus there was two cars turing right so I waited for them two cars to go past and turn before I moved and hit the gravel.

The gravel also looks quite hard to see since it is very clean gravel, my picture is a bit blury but I'm geting a friend to get some more pics.

Mr Skid
8th November 2004, 16:16
My condolences on your accident, but that appears to be a painted median strip that you were going to pass on. Naughty. A $150 ticket if I'm not mistaken.

You could argue that you didn't see it for the gravel.. :whistle:

I am suprised you didn't see the gravel as it doesn't look like just a couple of stones there, but hey I wasn't there at the time.

Motu's suggestion about using the painted median to access the servo on the right is probably the only defence I can think of that would justify riding on it, scumdog will be along soon to confirm, but I think you can use it for 200m to enter / exit the flow of traffic.

I still think it is a bit naff of the laww to be getting involved though, I would have thought a puncture wound and broken bike would have been punishment enough.

sAsLEX
8th November 2004, 16:29
Going off topic here, but arent councils meant to keep the road clean? Heaps of areas not on the driving line are covered in gravel all around the place and these are the areas needed to be used in an emergency situation and most of them are barely rideable at the best of times! would they be liable if this was the cause of injury etc due to lack of grip in an emergency situation, or would it just be put down to speed?

Madmax
9th November 2004, 13:49
had a bin on a piece of paper in the wet one time
could not see it because of the car in front
the judge saw in my favor
(it was a factor out side of my control)
:shifty:

Mongoose
9th November 2004, 14:09
Scuse me, but is that an intersetion you were going to pass the cars on? That in itself might not look to flash in court?
I would not use an old Defensive driving Cert, in court, it shows you learned nothing by it, try for a fresh one to say you gave yourself a fright and tried to learn from it.
On the other hand I would look seriously at taking it on the chin and carry on with life.

dashR
9th November 2004, 18:58
Scuse me, but is that an intersetion you were going to pass the cars on? That in itself might not look to flash in court?
I would not use an old Defensive driving Cert, in court, it shows you learned nothing by it, try for a fresh one to say you gave yourself a fright and tried to learn from it.
On the other hand I would look seriously at taking it on the chin and carry on with life.

I coulda been slightly down further on the road. I dunno, their were ppl turning right and I know I waited for them to go before I went. This photo was taken 6 days later so thier could of been gravel down further where that tarseal patch is. I just hope the cops got a pic of where my tyre went through the gravel, thats if they even found the crash scene since they showed up when I and my bike was at the service station.

Deano
9th November 2004, 19:15
Going off topic here, but arent councils meant to keep the road clean?

I would say its a question of did the Council know about it and have sufficient time to rectify before you could prove liability. The 'odd' bit of gravel here and there is par for the course, as are painted lines in the wet. Its when road works are carried out that signs must be erected.

I raised the issue to the local Council regarding those steel service plates in the road being a traffic hazard (not just for bikes as Ive slid on them in a car in the wet at very low speeds). Some have a layer of bitumen on them and some don't - I suggested for consistancy and safety that the Council make the bitumen ones a mandatory standard, but haven't heard back.....as often happens with bureaucrats (bureauprats).

sAsLEX
9th November 2004, 19:25
i am talking about build up of gravel at every major intersection here on the shore, on the unused line there is alwasy piles of gravel and glass etc

And to the point of those steel plates some of them are like an inch thick and dont stick flush to the ground, would hate to hit one on a bike!

marty
9th November 2004, 19:56
and do you complain about the bits of rubber off-line at the racetrack too? surely the racetrack people are responsible for cleaning those off. with your reasoning, if you go into them and bail, you would have some redress.

Motu
9th November 2004, 21:16
Steel plates are at the sites of road works,even if there are no signs erected you should know there are road works - the steel plates are a dead giveaway...oh,you didn't see them,oh,come on!,use your eyes! Crap builds up of line,it's normal and has been a fixture of NZ roads for longer than my 35 riding years,your only reason to be out there is avoidance of a stranded vehicle,I don't think there is any other reason to be using the middle of an intersection - kinda dangerous if you ask me.

Oh,rereading the posts it might be some are complaining of manhole covers? Um...I'm speachless!

sAsLEX
9th November 2004, 21:26
meh flame me if you wish, just stating that the road would be safer for all if escape avenues were clean and usable. I really dont care that much as if you have eyes its easy enough to avoid

marty
9th November 2004, 21:36
the road would be safer if the fuckwits that road and drove on it stayed at home and did cross stitch

Motu
9th November 2004, 21:54
Yeah,but with only one perfect rider left in the world to be able to ride on these deserted roads,I'd get kinda bored,I'd havta fake an accident.

Milky
9th November 2004, 21:56
I agree marty... all of us should sit at home and do absolutely nothing to remove all chance of getting hurt by gravel and nasssssty steel plates and wet paint and mad cagers and dogs and and and...

Make allowances for these things and stop trying to blame others for YOUR inability to read the surface. Sometimes shit happens beyond your control, but you can limit the consequences of the mishaps by being aware of what might be on the road, and where it is likely to be. For all the rest, that is what insurance is for.

2_SL0
10th November 2004, 05:38
Yeah,but with only one perfect rider left in the world to be able to ride on these deserted roads,I'd get kinda bored,I'd havta fake an accident.

LMao, your so modest. :not:

Dr Bob
10th November 2004, 08:54
The only thing I can add,

If you were attempting to overtake a slow moving vehicle on the right, and you were indicating, and if you were able to do this entirely within the lane, and if the vehicle you were overtaking failed to keep left within the lane when you were overtaking, and if the breach of the other vehicle of the traffic regulation 1976 caused you to change the direction of your vehicle, and if this change of direction caused your accident, then... you might be alright.


can i breathe now?

Oh... and the intersection thing. See text from www.legislation.govt.nz



(2)No driver shall pass or attempt to pass on the right of another vehicle moving in the same direction when approaching or crossing an intersection, unless—

(a)Where the roadway is marked in lanes, his vehicle does not encroach on a lane available for opposing traffic; or

(b)The manoeuvre can be made with safety and is made with due consideration for users of the intersecting road.

magnum
10th November 2004, 21:42
ouch and bugger,welcome anyways.things can only get better :ride:

scumdog
10th November 2004, 22:56
My condolences on your accident, but that appears to be a painted median strip that you were going to pass on. Naughty. A $150 ticket if I'm not mistaken.

You could argue that you didn't see it for the gravel.. :whistle:

I am suprised you didn't see the gravel as it doesn't look like just a couple of stones there, but hey I wasn't there at the time.

Motu's suggestion about using the painted median to access the servo on the right is probably the only defence I can think of that would justify riding on it, scumdog will be along soon to confirm, but I think you can use it for 200m to enter / exit the flow of traffic.

I still think it is a bit naff of the laww to be getting involved though, I would have thought a puncture wound and broken bike would have been punishment enough.

Gotta agree with paparazzi here, o.k. I don't know all the facts but here goes: when passing stationary traffic (I rarely do) I ALWAYS just trickle by in case some effwit opens a door or somebody changes their mind about being stuck in the line and pulls out without warning, had you been just 'trickling' by you might not have arsed-up, HOWEVER it seems you have and you can only go for "I was going to do a right turn to get some fuel" (bad luck if you've already said to the cops you were passing the line of traffic) as I understand there was a "flush median" involved i.e. painted diagonal lines, you can't pass on them in 50 and 70 kph areas last time I looked.

You could try the 'slippery substance' line but would need something to back it up - could seed the idea regarding 'beyond reasonable doubt' kind of thing.

If you had time/money you could possibly find out if anybody else had an off in similar circumstances at that location - and preferably fairly recently.

Good Luck :2thumbsup

Deano
12th November 2004, 12:58
How about you guys use your own eyes and tread the post properly. Imm talking about the 1.5m square steel service plates, not manhole covers or road works plates.

Maybe you don't have them in your town ?

My point (not that you probably got it) was that some of these plates have a bitumen layer on them, some don't - the ones that don't are feckn slippery in the wet, (even in a car) are so big they're unavoidable, and if you hit one mid corner, you'd be very lucky to stay upright. You mention manhole covers - I have seen these with bitumen on them as well.

So would it be soooo difficult for Council's to set a consistent standard for these service plates (and hey, perhaps manhole covers as well) in that they all get a nice grippy layer of bitumen on them ?

Blakamin
12th November 2004, 13:49
My point (not that you probably got it) was that some of these plates have a bitumen layer on them, some don't - the ones that don't are feckn slippery in the wet, (even in a car) are so big they're unavoidable, and if you hit one mid corner, you'd be very lucky to stay upright.

So would it be soooo difficult for Council's to set a consistent standard for these service plates (and hey, perhaps manhole covers as well) in that they all get a nice grippy layer of bitumen on them ?

We got one right at the lights, where i have to turn left every day to get on the highway... friggin scary in the wet! luckily its at the lights and 9 times outta 10 they're red, so its a slow ride over....how much would it cost to spray something on it???

Motu
12th November 2004, 14:12
How about you guys use your own eyes and tread the post properly. Imm talking about the 1.5m square steel service plates, not manhole covers or road works plates.

Maybe you don't have them in your town ?


Hmmm,maybe not...can't say I've ever seen one,but I'm half blind and will probably fall off on one tomorrow.I'll look for them today....

Deano
12th November 2004, 14:21
Hmmm,maybe not...can't say I've ever seen one,but I'm half blind and will probably fall off on one tomorrow.I'll look for them today....

One good thing to be said for night riding - you don't notice the on-road hazards until you're on it/past it, by which time its too late to do anything.

In the light of day there is potential for panic and the old sphincter clench/stiff arms which can put you off and make things worse - sometimes ignorance is bliss.

inlinefour
2nd December 2004, 12:57
Hello, I'm DashR

I bailed from my RGV250 on the way to work on tuesday. Was about to start overtaking the traphic that was at a standstill towards the hobsonville bridge in Auckland. I hit a white line when I hit the gas, and went down. I got a bit waisted due to the handlebars (Puncture wound that needed surgery), and had to get an ambulance.

The cops are charging now me for "Careless Driving" after "Investigations" and want me to show up in court. I was going like 50km/hr, didnt even get out of my lane and didnt hit anyone, why the hell would they charge me for it?, I wouldnt give a shit if they sent me a ticket, but to actually take me to court for an offence :angry2:

Now to make things worse, it was on my second day of work at a new job and I still havent finished at uni. And my GSXR 750 needs a engine rebuild.

Dam I've had a bad week, but how could the cops be such :moon: 's

Easy I think its the way they are trained! :finger:

scumdog
2nd December 2004, 13:02
Easy I think its the way they are trained! :finger:


Hah! I see the flaw in your argument, you used the words "I think", what a lie!! ;) :blah: