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Coyote
6th November 2004, 11:21
I keep hearing that the 250cc law might change. We phoned up the ltsa and the guy on the phone said they want to change the law but need it to go through the government. Does anyone know anything more?

Posh Tourer :P
6th November 2004, 11:56
change the law how?

Yamahamaman
6th November 2004, 12:00
change the law how?
Probably want to drop the CC rating to :scooter:

Warren
6th November 2004, 12:20
Well there are not many 250cc models being produced around the world and sold in NZ. at the moment there is the Suzuki GN250, GSX250 and ?did i miss one?

Honda.co.uk has 9 different 125cc models being sold new, some :scooter: and that is only honda.

in 5 years time what will the market for learners bikes be if we kept the 250cc rule?

Warren
6th November 2004, 12:28
If they did change it down to 125cc like the UK, would that mean my 150cc FXR is off limits until I get my restricted and then 9 months later get my full license?

Moffy
6th November 2004, 13:03
I always find it interesting that our legislaters are so concerned about the health ans well being of learner motor cyclists that they restrict them to 250cc until they are considered competent enough to graduate to something bigger. At the same time we allow pimply faced youths to drive Evo's and WRX and all manner of other 4 wheeled rocket ships while on their restricted licences.

We have just bought a 1987 1.3 litre Laser for the kids to learn in. Once they have learnt to control that then they can graduate to something more to their liking.

Two Smoker
6th November 2004, 13:11
I doubt very much that it would be lowered, but rather rasie the cc rating...... I think this is a stupid idea if it involves a lerners licence..... Learners should be restricted to 250cc, and possibly raise the cc bar too 400cc..... Because in theory you can do your learner and restricted and then jump onto a 1000cc rocket as soon as you get your full (fucking stupid if you ask me) it should be more gradual, 250cc and under for Learners, and 400cc and under for restricted riders.... therefore the rider gets used to playing with a bit of power before jumping onto a 600+cc bike.....

bevsta
6th November 2004, 13:14
Don't some countries work on a horse power rating? When I was first getting my licence I heard a few learned bikers raving on about how a much better way would be to limit the horse power to put less experienced riders on a bike but now allow them the power of 250cc to go kill themselves. Cos you can still get up to the same massive speeds on some of the modern 250s. I don't know the truth of it. What do you guys think about that?

Posh Tourer :P
6th November 2004, 13:31
Kinda invisible if ya just take out the restricting washer in the exhaust....

But I suppose it'd work, seeing as it has elsewhere.....

FROSTY
6th November 2004, 14:32
Yea i agree that a learner rider should be restricted by Horsepower not cc
that would make a few of the pocket rocket 250's unavailable but mean that sedate 500's like the gs500 or perhaps the gpz500 are available.
It would also be better for um er "larger" people.

magnum
6th November 2004, 14:40
mmmmmmmmm,i think the m/c industry in nz is to small to survive too much legislation and enforcement will always cost big $$$$ no matter how well intensioned
prob best to leave as is i think. :ride:

Coyote
6th November 2004, 15:30
change the law how?
That's what I wanted to know. All I hear is it's going to be changed but what to I haven't heard.

Two Smoker
6th November 2004, 15:33
The HP idea is a good one, but it would cost alot of money...... and you would get idiots like me that would buy the restriction and not put it in.....

Coyote
6th November 2004, 15:36
A prime example why the 250 rule is so stupid is the Aprilia RS250. Very nice bike but very powerful. I could just see a kid who has just turned 15, knows nothing about bikes but wants one to look cool, getting their licence and then getting their rich banker/property developer/pilot father to buy them a RS250, and getting themselves killed.

Two Smoker
6th November 2004, 15:41
A prime example why the 250 rule is so stupid is the Aprilia RS250. Very nice bike but very powerful. I could just see a kid who has just turned 15, knows nothing about bikes but wants one to look cool, getting their licence and then getting their rich banker/property developer/pilot father to buy them a RS250, and getting themselves killed.
Yep, but you can look at it the other way too...... Have gone through the process and are ready for something a bit bigger on your restricted, then you can get a 250 2-stroke (with the perfromance of a 400......)

Coyote
6th November 2004, 16:12
250 2-stroke (with the perfromance of a 400......)
So the 250 2 strokes have the same power as the 400s? Are the 250s slower than I thought or the 400s faster than I thought.

ResidentAngel
6th November 2004, 16:18
Don't some countries work on a horse power rating? When I was first getting my licence I heard a few learned bikers raving on about how a much better way would be to limit the horse power to put less experienced riders on a bike but now allow them the power of 250cc to go kill themselves. Cos you can still get up to the same massive speeds on some of the modern 250s. I don't know the truth of it. What do you guys think about that?

I understand that Queensland, AU allows any bike under about 30bhp, so a learner is allowed to ride a gutless 29hp 800cc Harley. I think provided the bike isnt just plain too heavy, a horsepower rating is sensible, cause too much acceleration is generally what gets lil baby bikers into trouble.

I suspect that here might be a move to adopt the Australian regs, and move to hp ratings instead of cc restrictions. All the early work on motorcycle accidents only looked at engine size, rather than power ratings, and perhaps the bureaucrats have finally wised up?

Coyote
6th November 2004, 16:18
At the same time we allow pimply faced youths to drive Evo's and WRX and all manner of other 4 wheeled rocket ships while on their restricted licences.
Hear hear. We get a lot of those guys from my school on the road that’s beside our college at lunchtime doing half assed burnouts and all of them think they're the dog’s bollocks. Most of them haven't even had a car for a year but they still have cars that would rival the Hayabusa. And, where the hell do these guys get the money cause most of them are too thick to get a high paying job at their age.

Once I get my 250, I'm going to roll over to them and say to them '4 wheels, phff, your over compensating mate' and speed off.


1.3 litre Laser
:yeah: 1.3L Laser Hatchbacks rock!

Storm
6th November 2004, 16:50
Good on ya mate :2thumbsup

Mr Skid
6th November 2004, 17:01
Once I get my 250, I'm going to roll over to them and say to them '4 wheels, phff, your over compensating mate' and speed off.


You've got the KX80 in motard trim right?
What about riding up the bonnet and down over the boot spoiler on their cars to prove your superiority?

Two Smoker
6th November 2004, 17:01
Hear hear. We get a lot of those guys from my school on the road that’s beside our college at lunchtime doing half assed burnouts and all of them think they're the dog’s bollocks. Most of them haven't even had a car for a year but they still have cars that would rival the Hayabusa. And, where the hell do these guys get the money cause most of them are too thick to get a high paying job at their age.

Once I get my 250, I'm going to roll over to them and say to them '4 wheels, phff, your over compensating mate' and speed off.


:yeah:Legend mate..... But i think their cars would more rival 400's rather than Hayabusa's ;) :niceone:

Coyote
6th November 2004, 17:05
I take metalwork at school, and I was thinking about making a wheelie bar that I could put on whatever 250 I get. I would love to see their faces when I take them on.

Coyote
6th November 2004, 17:07
Had an even better idea! Make a cow-catcher!

tassle
6th November 2004, 17:08
I doubt very much that it would be lowered, but rather rasie the cc rating...... I think this is a stupid idea if it involves a lerners licence..... Learners should be restricted to 250cc, and possibly raise the cc bar too 400cc..... Because in theory you can do your learner and restricted and then jump onto a 1000cc rocket as soon as you get your full (fucking stupid if you ask me) it should be more gradual, 250cc and under for Learners, and 400cc and under for restricted riders.... therefore the rider gets used to playing with a bit of power before jumping onto a 600+cc bike.....


I just got my licence finally, and I just got a little V-max,are they going to change it as in Aus where it goes on age and hp of the bike , and who the hell came up with the bright idea of limiting learners to 70km/h, you try that game with open road trucks. ps my drz400 is more of a hoot to ride in town it wheelies oh so easy, it still comes down to how much control you have with the right hand, if someone is a dumbass, then they are still a danger on nifty-fifty.

Coyote
6th November 2004, 17:10
You've got the KX80 in motard trim right?
What about riding up the bonnet and down over the boot spoiler on their cars to prove your superiority?
What a brilliant idea. You could even do a burnout on the front windscreen.

Two Smoker
6th November 2004, 17:14
I just got my licence finally, and I just got a little V-max,are they going to change it as in Aus where it goes on age and hp of the bike , and who the hell came up with the bright idea of limiting learners to 70km/h, you try that game with open road trucks. ps my drz400 is more of a hoot to ride in town it wheelies oh so easy, it still comes down to how much control you have with the right hand, if someone is a dumbass, then they are still a danger on nifty-fifty.
Yep if someone is a dumbass then they will fall off and not ride again, or natural selection will occur....

DRZ400, is going going to be fun alright and wheelie well, but will it do 230kmh like a road going 400??? or 205kmh like a 250 two stroke, most road bikes will do 180kmh and i think that is what has to be taken into account.... But the biggest factor is acceleration, a 250 two stroke or 400 will hit 100kmh in about 5 seconds (similar performance to a evo)

Anyway, ive lost myself completely....

Congrats on the licence :niceone:

SPORK
6th November 2004, 17:47
What a brilliant idea. You could even do a burnout on the front windscreen.

You've got class :D

I hate the wanker with the big Holden logo over his bonnet... I want to put Sellys poly Filler in his bog bore exhaust :D

Coyote
6th November 2004, 18:00
You've got class :D

I hate the wanker with the big Holden logo over his bonnet... I want to put Sellys poly Filler in his bog bore exhaust :D
Or better still, put a Ford logo on it:lol:

ajturbo
6th November 2004, 22:52
... it still comes down to how much control you have with the right hand, if someone is a dumbass, then they are still a danger on nifty-fifty.[/QUOTE]

i agree here!!! i know someone personaly that was booked ( and i think he lost his licence over it ..) for trying to get a way from a cop (car) on a honda(?) 50!!! hey Gav, tell us the story!!! :lol: :laugh: :laugh:

rodgerd
7th November 2004, 00:01
Well there are not many 250cc models being produced around the world and sold in NZ. at the moment there is the Suzuki GN250, GSX250 and ?did i miss one?

in 5 years time what will the market for learners bikes be if we kept the 250cc rule?

I think you'll find imports/second hand market are the problem there. There are *heaps* of 250s in Japan, but I think so many people want cheap second-hand 250s that they junk as soon as they get a full license. I can't imagine the bike shops make enough money out of 250s for it to be worth habving a big range here.

rodgerd
7th November 2004, 00:03
A prime example why the 250 rule is so stupid is the Aprilia RS250. Very nice bike but very powerful. I could just see a kid who has just turned 15, knows nothing about bikes but wants one to look cool, getting their licence and then getting their rich banker/property developer/pilot father to buy them a RS250, and getting themselves killed.

The law can only go so far to protect people from themselves. Put in a HP restriction and what's to stop people popping restrictor plates in for a WOF and taking them out to ride?

rodgerd
7th November 2004, 00:04
And, where the hell do these guys get the money cause most of them are too thick to get a high paying job at their age.

Finance. It's all on the never-never; have a look around at the car dealers offering $1 down.

Bonez
7th November 2004, 05:13
I think you'll find imports/second hand market are the problem there. There are *heaps* of 250s in Japan, but I think so many people want cheap second-hand 250s that they junk as soon as they get a full license. Goody, more abondoned toys to play with ;)

James Deuce
7th November 2004, 06:22
I think a power to weight ratio system like NSW in Australia has would be the go.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html

Bloody sensible list and it means the larger amongst us, and the human race is slowly getting bigger, don;t have to do a pretzel imitation during their learner phase.

Yes, some bikes could be derestricted ahead of time, but I reckon the increase in electronics on new bikes means it could be restriced via a tamper "proof" ignition/FI module. Cop hops out, plugs USB cable into interface, "Very good sir/madam. The bike meets your license restrictions", or "Here's your $400 ticket, you knob".

Coyote
7th November 2004, 12:18
I think a power to weight ratio system like NSW in Australia has...
Hasn't the lastest R1 got a power to weight ratio of 1:1?

bevsta
7th November 2004, 21:34
I guess in the long run the laws are there to protect you, but if you're taking up a sport/hobby such as motorcycling you've gotta acknowledge the risk. I've only had my GN250 for 10 months and already heaps of people have said to me "that's the best way to get yourself killed." I know I'm still only learning and wouldn't want a bigger bike yet until I know I can handle it. It is all the more incentive to get out there and do more hours, build up the experience and build into a bigger bike. Bit of self responsibility given that it is your life flying along a couple of feet off the ground.

James Deuce
7th November 2004, 21:46
Hasn't the lastest R1 got a power to weight ratio of 1:1?


They'd have you believe that, those dastardly manufacturers, but add rider, fuel, coolant, brake fluid, oil, and a greasy breakfast, and you've got significantly less than that. Still "enough" power to to turn you in some scavengers greasy breakfast though.

Claimed weight is usually done with no fuel or coolant, and I've seen heaps of bike mags turn claimed wet weight 170kg bikes in 200kg ready to roll sans rider. Stay alert to hype.

SPORK
8th November 2004, 06:23
already heaps of people have said to me "that's the best way to get yourself killed."

Yep, no cage owner wants to see you on a bike, dirt or road. Jealousy, I think :D

Antallica
8th November 2004, 06:32
Yeah the HP's should be restricted, I can just imagine a recently licensed learner taking out a loan and getting a Apr RS250.

But hey, I thought the amount of people getting into bikes in this country is seriously low anyway. What with the boy racer generation with their done up Honda's, & rims worth more than the car itself doing 'the laps' in town.

The Pastor
8th November 2004, 06:50
I guess in the long run the laws are there to protect you, but if you're taking up a sport/hobby such as motorcycling you've gotta acknowledge the risk. I've only had my GN250 for 10 months and already heaps of people have said to me "that's the best way to get yourself killed." I know I'm still only learning and wouldn't want a bigger bike yet until I know I can handle it. It is all the more incentive to get out there and do more hours, build up the experience and build into a bigger bike. Bit of self responsibility given that it is your life flying along a couple of feet off the ground.


You can just say well i wont be going fast enough to hurt myself :whistle:

Magua
8th November 2004, 06:56
You can just say well i wont be going fast enough to hurt myself :whistle:
Atleast he's got a bike, anyway I'd take a Gn250 over my bomb of a FZR anyday.

Antallica
8th November 2004, 06:57
Yeah what they fail to realise is, is that they are actually the danger to you and your motorcycle. Not you to anyone else (well I hope anyway).

The amount of really really really and I mean really dangerous driving I experienced on the way back home was shocking. I'll excuse the poor little granny overtaking a truck on a no pass hill with about 4 cars including me coming down the hill.

Will be interesting to see if this law is changed anyway, I'll stick to this lovely GSF for a year or so more yet 40-45ish HP 'aint so bad at all.

SPORK
8th November 2004, 06:58
Magua, I had a dream last night, and your bike was in it :confused: It was just sitting on the side of the road... I need to see a doctor :D

Blakamin
8th November 2004, 07:06
Atleast he's got a bike, anyway I'd take a Gn250 over my bomb of a FZR anyday.
And you should see him on that GN...FARQ... they arent meant to do that!

James Deuce
8th November 2004, 07:43
Yeah what they fail to realise is, is that they are actually the danger to you and your motorcycle. Not you to anyone else (well I hope anyway).

The amount of really really really and I mean really dangerous driving I experienced on the way back home was shocking. I'll excuse the poor little granny overtaking a truck on a no pass hill with about 4 cars including me coming down the hill.

Will be interesting to see if this law is changed anyway, I'll stick to this lovely GSF for a year or so more yet 40-45ish HP 'aint so bad at all.
Nice score - I missed this one over the weekend - is this the one Frosty jacked up??

Fryin Finn
8th November 2004, 08:37
Years ago in the UK there was a 30hp limit for 2nd tier learners. So Bike magazine took a Hayabusa and put restrictors on it to limit hp 20 30. Still had a mountain of torque though. :crazy:

Coyote
8th November 2004, 17:12
& rims worth more than the car itself doing 'the laps' in town.
I was told that insurance companies refuse to insure cars with their rims worth more than the car. Thing is, I see them all the time. Saw an old toyota starlet, rusted up, no bumper, had those stupid chrome 20' spinner mags, they must've cost him like 2500, and the car would hardly be worth 500.

Beemer
16th July 2005, 17:51
A bhp limit is reasonable - it means the BMW F650CS could be a learners' bike (if they were rich!) and the Goose probably would be as well. But my old RG150 wouldn't - I think it was 33bhp!

And yes, every person who doesn't ride a bike says you will get killed on it - because they can't ride and know they would be killed if they tried! Jealousy, pure and simple! :ride:

Coyote
16th July 2005, 18:01
A bhp limit is reasonable - it means the BMW F650CS could be a learners' bike (if they were rich!) and the Goose probably would be as well. But my old RG150 wouldn't - I think it was 33bhp!

Oooo, a Dakar would be a nice learners bike :yes:

unhingedlizard
16th July 2005, 21:13
the UK law works like this:

16 years olds can have a 50cc not capable of more than 30MPH. Must wear L plates.

17 year olds can get there car licence and/or a motorcycle limited to a maximum of 33 bhp for a period of three years upon which thier licence automatically becomes full.

21 (could be 25, have to check) can apply to do an advanced test straight after thier restricted and ride anything they want.

So you can ride a 1300cc hayabusa as long as it has a 33hp restricter. The problem with this comes when someone buys an R1 per sec, rides with it restricter, takes it out after 3 yar and flips it cause its making 100+ hp more.

Jeremy
16th July 2005, 21:59
ARGH no, not an age limit. CBTA is the way to go, competency not some bizarre notion that aging a year enables you to handle more power. That way the system is fair.

And whatever you do don't suggest hp restrictions to government officials. They will always screw it up. Imagine what would happen if they decided that 10hp was going to be the restriction for 6L. Would you have even started if the first bike you got had to be a scooter?

Keystone19
16th July 2005, 22:52
someone mentioned to me the other day that my VTR250 would not be permitted if they do change the limits. :cry:

parsley
16th July 2005, 23:07
I doubt very much that it would be lowered, but rather rasie the cc rating...... I think this is a stupid idea if it involves a lerners licence..... Learners should be restricted to 250cc, and possibly raise the cc bar too 400cc..... Because in theory you can do your learner and restricted and then jump onto a 1000cc rocket as soon as you get your full (fucking stupid if you ask me) it should be more gradual, 250cc and under for Learners, and 400cc and under for restricted riders.... therefore the rider gets used to playing with a bit of power before jumping onto a 600+cc bike.....
Isn't this the way it works in the UK now? You get your learners licence which covers you up to 125cc, then the standard licence is restricted to 400cc for a year or two. You can bypass this by doing a special course, possible only for over 25s?

Bonez
17th July 2005, 10:48
I understand that Queensland, AU allows any bike under about 30bhp, so a learner is allowed to ride a gutless 29hp 800cc Harley. I think provided the bike isnt just plain too heavy, a horsepower rating is sensible, cause too much acceleration is generally what gets lil baby bikers into trouble.
Certainly make GB look good at 27hp-light, nimble and a barrel of monkies fun to ride. The HP thing makes sence all the all the LTSA has to do is ask to provide spec manufactures. Btw my C50 HAS to be registered as an M/C because it can do 80kph, took it in to a bike shop for a warrent-testing stations prior where quite happy for it to be a moped, go figure...................

Coyote
17th July 2005, 10:59
Hp restrictions on bikes, no

Hp restrictions on cars, :yes:

Why do us learner/restricted bikies have to suffer through all these barriers bascially designed so we don't get into biking whilst those dicks in their cars with their baseball cap over their eyes get to drive these monsters with big bore exhausts, blow off valves and massive extracters? (oh wait, they decrease performance don't they :rofl: )

Bonez
17th July 2005, 13:12
Why do us learner/restricted bikies
Bikers son-Bikers. Bikies go around fucking the neighbours dogs................

Ixion
17th July 2005, 13:21
Hp restrictions on bikes, no

Hp restrictions on cars, :yes:

Why do us learner/restricted bikies have to suffer through all these barriers bascially designed so we don't get into biking whilst those dicks in their cars with their baseball cap over their eyes get to drive these monsters with big bore exhausts, blow off valves and massive extracters? (oh wait, they decrease performance don't they :rofl: )

For exactly that reason. One of the prime motivators behind the bike license restrictions is to attempt to dissuade people (young men in particular) from taking up biking in the first place.

There is a smallish, but powerful, group of grey men in Wellington who, quite simply, want bikes off the road. Full stop.End of story. No bikes. They aren't powerful enough (yet!) to get them banned outright. But they do have enough power/influence to manipulate legislation so as to make biking unattractive for young men.

If getting a bike license is really hard and expensive, and getting a car licence is cheap and easy, they reason, young guys won't bother with bikes.

Their hope is that if no new bikers enter the scene, eventually biker numbers will drop, by old age and attrition, to the point where they can ban bikes on the road.

SPORK
17th July 2005, 15:36
Words

What are their reasons though? Did they get raped by a BSA when they were younger? Are they jealous? Are they just plain stupid?

Know thy enemy.

Howevevever, they're doing their job well in stopping me from getting a bike :rant:

Ixion
17th July 2005, 16:00
What are their reasons though? Did they get raped by a BSA when they were younger? Are they jealous? Are they just plain stupid?

Know thy enemy.

Howevevever, they're doing their job well in stopping me from getting a bike :rant:


Dunno. I suspect they're very well intentioned people who just see motorbikes as silly and dangerous. From their point of view, what reason is there to ride a motorbike when you can drive a car ?

It's not like running a bike is cheaper now than running a car, probably costs more in fact.

And they just see over representation in accident figures, hospital costs, etc. After all (in their eyes) if they were banned it's not like we'd suffer. We can always drive a car, and get there just as easily , dry and warm. The only reason anyone would want to ride one of those noisy dangerous things, is just to be antisocial, right.

Just tell people you meet that you ride a motorbike, and ask what they think of them. You'll get at least some responses along those lines.

ZorsT
17th July 2005, 19:12
Just tell people you meet that you ride a motorbike, and ask what they think of them. You'll get at least some responses along those lines. damn right you will
It seems that anyone who hasn't had a motorbike or isn't interested in them thinks they are death traps invented by DR Darwin to weed out the "undesireable" genes.
I had to put up with lots from people at work today telling me how i will die or lose all movement in all 3 arms because their uncles boss did. They always point out how it doesn't matter how good at riding you are, there will alwaysbe some dickhead who will pull out infront and kill you.:rant:

zeRax
18th July 2005, 18:31
true that!
sick of that line, so and so died, so and so is in a wheelchair for rest of life, yawn, its our choice, stop killing what tiny instance of freedom there is in the world

Waylander
18th July 2005, 18:54
damn right you will
It seems that anyone who hasn't had a motorbike or isn't interested in them thinks they are death traps invented by DR Darwin to weed out the "undesireable" genes.
I had to put up with lots from people at work today telling me how i will die or lose all movement in all 3 arms because their uncles boss did. They always point out how it doesn't matter how good at riding you are, there will alwaysbe some dickhead who will pull out infront and kill you.:rant:

Heh I just laugh at those peaple and say a quote from a James Bond movie, with a bit of my own added on. "What's the point in living if you don't feel alive. I would rather live a short, exciting life than a long dull one." Yea cheesy I know but it shuts them up.

James Deuce
18th July 2005, 19:00
You fellas who object to anecdotal reports of the downside of motorcycling are mired in testosterone fuelled self-deception. What's wrong with someone, however uninformed, pointing out what their perception of motorcycling is? They are either concerned for you or looking forward to a bit of future schadenfreude at your expense. If it's the former then they are probably worth knowing and may eventually understand why you like 'bikes. If it's the latter you can file them under "probably a wanker" and move on.

The fact that you are more likely to be seriously injured in an unplanned motor vehicle incident as a motorcyclist is a greater truism than people making disparaging comments about bikes in general.

placidfemme
19th July 2005, 10:04
You fellas who object to anecdotal reports of the downside of motorcycling are mired in testosterone fuelled self-deception. What's wrong with someone, however uninformed, pointing out what their perception of motorcycling is? They are either concerned for you or looking forward to a bit of future schadenfreude at your expense. If it's the former then they are probably worth knowing and may eventually understand why you like 'bikes. If it's the latter you can file them under "probably a wanker" and move on.

The fact that you are more likely to be seriously injured in an unplanned motor vehicle incident as a motorcyclist is a greater truism than people making disparaging comments about bikes in general.

Well said :Punk:

unhingedlizard
19th July 2005, 18:20
A bike journo in the Uk once wrote that everytime he sees a bike come down the road, someone starts either talking about someones uncles, cousins, friends brother who died on a bike or they ask what can it do. His reponse was that he knows plenty of people killed in car accidents, and its not what it does its the way it does it.

raster
19th July 2005, 18:46
damn right you will
It seems that anyone who hasn't had a motorbike or isn't interested in them thinks they are death traps invented by DR Darwin to weed out the "undesireable" genes.
I had to put up with lots from people at work today telling me how i will die or lose all movement in all 3 arms because their uncles boss did. They always point out how it doesn't matter how good at riding you are, there will alwaysbe some dickhead who will pull out infront and kill you.:rant:

Ban cars, then bikes would be safer.
The beurocrats look at the riders costs without looking at the wanker who pulled out in front of the rider who actually caused the accident.
I hope to see many bike on the road tomorrow, see what happens to the traffic conjestion.

sunhuntin
22nd July 2005, 16:00
Ban cars, then bikes would be safer.
The beurocrats look at the riders costs without looking at the wanker who pulled out in front of the rider who actually caused the accident.
I hope to see many bike on the road tomorrow, see what happens to the traffic conjestion.

:2thumbsup

Matt Bleck
22nd July 2005, 16:51
in 5 years time what will the market for learners bikes be if we kept the 250cc rule?

In five years time no one but the richie rich's will be able to afford gas for the lawnmower let alone their bikes!!!

Wolf
22nd July 2005, 17:07
The law can only go so far to protect people from themselves. Put in a HP restriction and what's to stop people popping restrictor plates in for a WOF and taking them out to ride?
Same thing as in Australia - the "approved list" is set by gummint testers on standard bikes - not restricted ones. You don't have the option of saying "Hey, I've detuned my Hayabusa down to the requisite 30hp, certify it." If your bike is on the list of approved bikes, you can ride it on a restricted/learner licence; if it is not, tough crap - wait until the powers-that-be test one and determine its suitability.

If we went that way here in NZ we would probably need to go back to colour coded Rego stickers for learner/restricted vs full licence - so the cops can instantly see that the bike is licenced as suitable for learners (rather than them having to look up the list at the road-side they can rely on the licensing agency to check the list before issuing a rego for the bike.)

The loacl vehicle licensing place has access to computers which could be easily configured to interface with a list of approved-for-learners motorcycles - you could easily program it so that if it's an approved bike, an extra licensing option comes up for the issuing of a learner/restricted class endorsement ("And will you be wanting anyone with a learners or restricted licence to ride your bike, Mr Jones?") such an option would not be available for unapproved bikes.

Of course, a learner or restricted licence holder would have no option but get the learner/restricted endorsed rego sticker - only a full licence holder could get a standard rego (thus rendering the bike "out of bounds" to a learner or restricted licence holder)

If the owner is on a learner's licence, or wants to allow learners to ride, (s)he could opt for a learner/restricted class rego (not illegal to ride on that class of rego if you're on a full licence so parent can get his/her approved bike licensed for offspring to learn on). Learners must also display L plate, yada yada.

Cops can look at the bike, see the "learner/restricted" rego and the L plate, check that the stated plate number, make and model match the bike and all is well. If the rider is on restricted the cops can see by the rego sticker the bike is on the approved list - where's the hassle in that?

If the cops suspect (by the rider's actions) that the bike has been modified to make it more powerful than standard, there is always the option of getting it tested by an independant agency.

For years cops had to look at the colour of our rego and compare it with our licence class - and Gods Forfend you get caught on an "M" registered 90cc bike on your learners or restricted licence - that was before L plates.

The system we have now has its weak points - how does the cop know that the guy on the 250 without L plates at 11:30pm is allowed to be riding? If the rider is fully licenced, no prob, but if he's on a restricted he's outside the curfew. How does the cop know that? Do they waste time pulling over someone over only to discover he's legal or do they assume everyone on a 250 who's not actively riding like an idiot is fully licensed?

Back in the day, if a cop rolled up behind you and saw the wrong colour of rego label, you were generally a goner.

I reckon bring in an "approved list" as per Aus-truckin-falia, make it easy on the poor buggers on patrol with an easily identifiable "endorsement" rego to say "LTSA says its OK to ride this" and open the options for new riders to include larger capacity bikes that may well be safer to ride than the smaller, lighter, faster 250s.

Of course, "endorsed" regos would be targetted by cops after the beddy-bye time for all good restricted licensees and would mostly waste the time of the aforementioned parents of learner/restricted younglings, but would that not be better than any 250 seen after beddy-bye time being a potential target?

Its actually simpler than my lengthy waffle would suggest - just wanted to cover bases and make it look like I'd actually put some thought into it.

hondacmx450
26th July 2005, 10:59
Legend mate..... But i think their cars would more rival 400's rather than Hayabusa's ;) :niceone:
i think the only busa iv ceen passed was parked in the shop but i bet it will not be long be for it starts to pass evry thing hope it gets a good rider

froggyfrenchman
1st August 2005, 19:51
thats what i like to hear... my lil brother was friends with the kids killed on friday night in hastings. how do 15yos get $10,000 cars tha can break the sound barrier from day 1, when we had to do our time on 250s to learn to handle our machines before earning power over time. i vote all learnre and restricted drivers should be restricted to 1300cc naturally aspired cars!!!

Kickaha
1st August 2005, 21:05
Ban cars, then bikes would be safer.
The beurocrats look at the riders costs without looking at the wanker who pulled out in front of the rider who actually caused the accident.
I hope to see many bike on the road tomorrow, see what happens to the traffic conjestion.

You only have to look at the amount of single bike accidents among the members of this site to know thats not completely true

I see a lot of near misses with cars from members on this site but the majority of accidents reported have only involved single bikes so it's not just the wankers that pull out in front of bikes causing accidents and causing the costs

Coyote
1st August 2005, 21:08
thats what i like to hear... my lil brother was friends with the kids killed on friday night in hastings. how do 15yos get $10,000 cars tha can break the sound barrier from day 1, when we had to do our time on 250s to learn to handle our machines before earning power over time. i vote all learnre and restricted drivers should be restricted to 1300cc naturally aspired cars!!!
Sounds like if National get in, they'll actually make this so and drivers will also be restricted like us bikers. Of course, National say a lot of things....

Mr Skid
1st August 2005, 21:15
You only have to look at the amount of single bike accidents among the members of this site to know thats not completely true

I see a lot of near misses with cars from members on this site but the majority of accidents reported have only involved single bikes so it's not just the wankers that pull out in front of bikes causing accidents and causing the costs
I had the pleasure of watching a 3 bike incident at a set of traffic lights about a fortnight ago, so bike crashes aren't all single vehicle accidents ;)

Coyote
1st August 2005, 21:16
How long have they had the 70k rule?

froggyfrenchman
30th August 2005, 21:20
if they do change it to power (hp) rather than cc, i amagine that itll be allbad and everyone will be stuck on gnpoofiftys. the likes of cbr250rr, will be off limits

crshbndct
31st August 2005, 09:52
the ridiculous thing is that anyone can go and get a learners, buy a 400cc bike, and the cops will not even bat an eyelid, (just dont get pulled over)
i am considering a cbr400rr instead of a 250, purly becasue of price, and i am a lard-ass, and i only have to have the 250 for 9 months(i am nearly 25)

zigi
24th April 2012, 17:29
I hate "authorities" telling me what's best for me like "put sun lotion on at the beach" :baby: Seriously WTF. It's your life and it's your responsibility to decide what's best for you... And if you're reckless, you pay with your life. If the authorities sincerely cared for your life, driver license tests would be FREE.

Back home I can get an "L" plate and stick it to a BEAST like an R1 or a CBR1000 or even a Busa and ride it anywhere, anytime and carry a passenger without a license; fully legal. The authorities advises on safety measures and enforces laws against speeding and dangerous behavior but otherwise stays the F*** out of my way :headbang:

And how come car drivers on learners are allowed to drive a 1001bhp 400+kph beast (Bugatti Veyron)?... for those who can afford one :lol:

GrayWolf
24th April 2012, 19:54
I hate "authorities" telling me what's best for me like "put sun lotion on at the beach" :baby: Seriously WTF. It's your life and it's your responsibility to decide what's best for you... And if you're reckless, you pay with your life. If the authorities sincerely cared for your life, driver license tests would be FREE.

Back home I can get an "L" plate and stick it to a BEAST like an R1 or a CBR1000 or even a Busa and ride it anywhere, anytime and carry a passenger without a license; fully legal. The authorities advises on safety measures and enforces laws against speeding and dangerous behavior but otherwise stays the F*** out of my way :headbang:

And how come car drivers on learners are allowed to drive a 1001bhp 400+kph beast (Bugatti Veyron)?... for those who can afford one :lol:

You are exaclty WHY TPTB interfere so much, ego, attitude and yeh it's your life? We taxpayers, pay for your hospital care, recovery, ACC and Prostheses etc IF you survive, apart from parents, kids, wife left behind. If the authorities cared? they'd introduce a higher level of licence for ALL drivers, including advanced driving/riding courses. Also all the rest of us that ride end up 'wearing' the aftermath in media, public attitude and Govt knee jerk laws.
Do you really think that any person of sound mind is going to get on the back of a hayabusa/R1/CBR with a complete and total newb? Just because it's legal? :spanking:

sinned
24th April 2012, 21:02
3rd post sucked a post from 2005

mossy1200
24th April 2012, 21:05
I hate "authorities" telling me what's best for me like "put sun lotion on at the beach" :baby: Seriously WTF. It's your life and it's your responsibility to decide what's best for you... And if you're reckless, you pay with your life. If the authorities sincerely cared for your life, driver license tests would be FREE.

Back home I can get an "L" plate and stick it to a BEAST like an R1 or a CBR1000 or even a Busa and ride it anywhere, anytime and carry a passenger without a license; fully legal. The authorities advises on safety measures and enforces laws against speeding and dangerous behavior but otherwise stays the F*** out of my way :headbang:

And how come car drivers on learners are allowed to drive a 1001bhp 400+kph beast (Bugatti Veyron)?... for those who can afford one :lol:

If you dont like the laws here go home.

John_H
24th April 2012, 21:07
I hate "authorities" telling me what's best for me like "put sun lotion on at the beach" :baby: Seriously WTF. It's your life and it's your responsibility to decide what's best for you... And if you're reckless, you pay with your life. If the authorities sincerely cared for your life, driver license tests would be FREE.

Back home I can get an "L" plate and stick it to a BEAST like an R1 or a CBR1000 or even a Busa and ride it anywhere, anytime and carry a passenger without a license; fully legal. The authorities advises on safety measures and enforces laws against speeding and dangerous behavior but otherwise stays the F*** out of my way :headbang:

And how come car drivers on learners are allowed to drive a 1001bhp 400+kph beast (Bugatti Veyron)?... for those who can afford one :lol:

This must be someones alter ego winding everyone up. I just can't believe anyone is really this stupid.

James Deuce
25th April 2012, 08:45
You are exaclty WHY TPTB interfere so much, ego, attitude and yeh it's your life? We taxpayers, pay for your hospital care, recovery, ACC and Prostheses etc IF you survive, apart from parents, kids, wife left behind.

And so we should. Otherwise civilisation is pointless.

GrayWolf
25th April 2012, 09:23
Originally Posted by GrayWolf View Post
You are exaclty WHY TPTB interfere so much, ego, attitude and yeh it's your life? We taxpayers, pay for your hospital care, recovery, ACC and Prostheses etc IF you survive, apart from parents, kids, wife left behind.


And so we should. Otherwise civilisation is pointless.

I agree James, but sometimes, just sometimes, you wish you could let 'darwinism' take it's course.

James Deuce
25th April 2012, 09:40
Darwin never meant "Survival of the fittest" in a macro sense, he was describing the process of natural selection as a localised phenomena where those species that adapted best to local environmental changes over time were the ones that changed in response to those environmental changes. In genetics fitness refers to differential reproduction, it isn't a measure of how physically strong an individual or species is.

The way "Darwinism" is presented idiomatically today is a rhetorical tautology.

pzkpfw
26th April 2012, 09:25
And so we should. Otherwise civilisation is pointless.

Yes. Totally agree.

But a civilisation has a right to attempt some prevention of harm; not just provide the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.