Penalised for trying to help [Archive]

dangerous

24th December 2007, 11:10

sunhuntin

24th December 2007, 11:23

having met you... id say dont waste your time. darwin will eventually show up. you SHOULD NOT have got an infraction for it though... that was unfair.

cowpoos

24th December 2007, 11:24

Ok.. so I said on a local mid week ride thread (as I have ridden with this group several times) that Im concerned with ther riding pratices.
Now I just posted up on the thread take it easy out there cos with the way the group croses the center line ther will be a serious acco, and I gave the example of the guy killed this w/e in a head on south Canty.
I earned myself a red infractment (what ever that means) but basicly Kickaha the big headed mod thought I was off topic... well I believe I was bang on topic and leeting the group know that you MUST be awair of your actions as EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION

So, Im concerned about fellow riders... but Im not allowd to comment in threads about rides I DO attend.
What do you guys reckon.. I should pull my fucking head in and let the silly wee shits kill them selves or keep trying to get my point through?

* just as a note in the preiveous thread on these rides a KBer posted that he nearly killed him self but didnt apair to give a shit, I had already spoken to this member earler that day.
* also would like to add in last weeks ride there were 2 bins alone
I agree with you dude...especially your point about staying you your side of the road...so many riders are unable to ride completely within the white lines..especially on right handers...I've believed for ages its because they are sighting corners/vanishing points wrong...and sadly...alot don't care!! speak up I say...but its hard to offer constructive critisisium to riders with out offending their pride or ego's...but sometimes...what needs to be said...needs to be said...

oh and for gwads sake...don't cry over your infraction...they're meaningless untill you get heaps of them.

duckonin

24th December 2007, 11:27

jrandom

24th December 2007, 11:28

so many riders are unable to ride completely within the white lines..especially on right handers...I've believed for ages its because they are sighting corners/vanishing points wrong...

I agree. After you spoke to me on the subject, I re-thought my approach to right-handers. I'm definitely killing fewer puppies now, and feeling a lot safer and smoother on the open road around traffic. It's made me more tentative turning to the right - it's interesting to compare the wear on Betty's left and right peg feelers - but I gotta start somewhere eh.

:niceone:

I guess some people just don't listen, though...

huck farley

24th December 2007, 11:33

Keep offering advice, you are doing a great service to the younger and even the older guys taking up riding again after a 20 odd year break. To bring up families and pay the family home of. I've only been on the KB five minutes and I got a yellow card from Admin ref, for retaliating to a member who assaulted me for posting a paper from a technical institute. Keep up the great work pal!!

dangerous

24th December 2007, 11:34

Thanks SH

I agree with you dude...especially your point about staying you your side of the road...so many riders are unable to ride completely within the white lines..especially on right handers...I've believed for ages its because they are sighting corners/vanishing points wrong...and sadly...alot don't care!! speak up I say...but its hard to offer constructive critisisium to riders with out offending their pride or ego's...but sometimes...what needs to be said...needs to be said...

oh and for gwads sake...don't cry over your infraction...they're meaningless untill you get heaps of them.

I dont cear bout the infraction its just a game for some... your comment on why riders cross the line, well IMHO...
They are apexing to soon (turning to soon) as they are looking to far ahead.
yeah ok we all know this can be done, I wont sa safely, but once again IMHO cutting it once becomes cutting it twice, becomes a bad habbit which becomes complacent... whice means the rider is doing it with out relising... sooner or later they wont see the on comming vehicle.
How else do thes accos happen?

T.W.R

24th December 2007, 11:41

If some don't like a bit of shock treatment or finds it an attack when somethings brought to attention or advice is given, its their tough pigeon that they feel that way.
At least when you see something, you're upfront enough to have that consideration & respect to show concern.

The Pastor

24th December 2007, 11:44

you'll prob get an infraction for this thread as well.

Dont let the mods dick you around, do what you want to do.

cowpoos

24th December 2007, 11:51

your comment on why riders cross the line, well IMHO...
They are apexing to soon (turning to soon) as they are looking to far ahead.
yeah ok we all know this can be done,

I agree totally...exactly what you have just said...they're sighting corners wrong...monkey see monkey do...but on top of that...I think alot of people use the right hand side of the road for there vanishing point sighting line...so they are drawn to the right hand side further than what they should be...where as they should be focusing on the middle line for sighting and vanishing points

I also agree...that once its done a few times...yep habbit forms.
I tell people all the time...everytime you go over the white line god kills a puppy...and I'll sit there in some strangers car...and I will say it...I don't give a fuck...Jrandom remembers me saying it also...its to easy for a vehicle to clip another by going over the white line...and that is my pet hate with fellow motorcyclists...If I'm following someone and they are riding over the white line...It just gives me the shits!! and I just don't want to be there!! I could be a corner away from seeing a horrific accident. and fuck that!

200BUSA

24th December 2007, 11:55

Keep giving the advice D but as long as it doesnt turn into a bickering session.Now what do you think about the fact that some of the younger less experienced are going for the rides-stopping and having a few drinks and getting a bit cocky on the way back.Losing concentration.Im a non drinker and i dont mind others enjoying a few drinks-but in my books i dont like mixing the two together.But all you can do D is give the advice and hope they take it in.They all learn at different speeds,so time will tell.I dont like seeing friends hurt or killed in accidents.

Trudes

24th December 2007, 11:57

Keep up the good work Dangerous! :rockon:
Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that "know everything", so they probably won't listen to anything you have to say. However there are some people out there who don't have small cock syndrome, and hopefully they will take on board some advice from someone who has a load of experience and is genuinely concerned about others killing or hurting themselves doing something that they should be passionate about and want to improve at.:scooter::yes:
After all, at the end of the day, you probably wish you didn't have to pull people up about their riding, I'm sure you don't go out looking for people's shit riding skills to remind them about staying on their side of the road otherwise they may die very soon, and you probably get very little personal enjoyment out of it.
It takes a big person to take on advice about something they probably think they are hot shit at.... after about a year of riding usually too.:bash:

Usarka

24th December 2007, 11:58

But my wheels haven't gone over the line so whats the problem?

You can only point out others riding shortcomings when they are prepared to listen. Like trying to tell a smoker to stop smoking, they'll only ever listen when they want to.

but yeah it gives me the shits too. Lots of people have been decapitated because of this...... :eek5:

enigma51

24th December 2007, 11:59

Infraction for giving advice WOW

Kickaha

24th December 2007, 12:01

boomer

24th December 2007, 12:05

enigma51

24th December 2007, 12:05

Read the reponse and got to say WOW still stands. If thats off topic then you need to infract yourself for talking about his antics cause this thread is about his infraction not his riding

or is that do as i say not as i do?

sugilite

24th December 2007, 12:07

Getting a red for offering safety advice is a bit over the top me thinks.

I've seen these centre line threads come and go before, I've never commented in them, till now.
On right handers with FULL visibility, I do not hesitate to cross it. I'm not over there by accident or because of inaccurate vanishing lines, but simply because I trust my eyes and like taking perfect swoopy lines. My point is, I trust my ability to look and see what obstacles must be navigated. If one cannot trust themselves on this, what about intersections and overtaking maneuvers, should one even be on a bike at all?

Group rides require common sense, rather than a lemming approach. Every one should give and respect space and take responsibility for their own actions. I ride for myself, I cannot ride for others and besides, KB stands for Kiwi Biker, not Kiwi Babysitter.

As for blind right handers, keep bar ends on your side of the paint and even then, never go in a corner so hot that you cannot pick it up if you have to. Oppps, was that advice? Hope I don't get red! :yawn:

jrandom

24th December 2007, 12:08

Not to put too fine a point on it, sometimes an experienced rider will cross the centerline and it'll be safe, and sometimes a n00b will cross it and be dicing with a very messy death.

When someone dishes out advice, it should be taken purely on its own merits. Ad hominem shit just isn't worth bothering with.

Kickaha

24th December 2007, 12:08

cause this thread is about his infraction not his riding

hmm good point, in that case he deserves another infraction for posting in the wrong forum

It is also about riding behaviour, not just his infraction

enigma51

24th December 2007, 12:10

hmm good point, in that case he deserves another infraction for posting in the wrong forum

It is also about riding behaviour, not just his infraction

Me think you have problem a fucking serious one. It moderators like you that piss everyone off

Ixion

24th December 2007, 12:14

This is the thread Dangerous is talking about
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=63581
as you can see the thread originator has asked for it to kept "On Topic" which his post certainly wasn't and I suggested he start a thread in here

While the message he is trying to convey is worthwhile the manner in which he is doing it needs some work and we have had numerous complaints about his input into the last "Canterbury cruisy night thread"

Now having ridden with Dangerous a couple of times I'd have to say I've seen him cut corners and cross the centreline twice on the one ride and have spoken to other riders who have ridden with him and seen the same

In my opinion If you want to preach to other riders, then you need to be squeaky clean yourself or it becomes "do as I say not as I do"

Nonsense. There is nothing at all wrong with saying to someone "I notice you have a habit of X. It's a rather bad habit, because Y. Maybe you don't realise you are doing it, it is an easy thing to get into the habit of. I know I do it myself , and it's something I am working on to correct".

Not that I do, cos I can't be arsed anymore trying to stop people killing themselves . I realised a while ago that KB is Ostrich Central and that all people want to do is stick their heads in the sand. Every crash is "just one of those things"; "shit happens" ; just a silly mistake"; "it was the other guy's fault".

The original comment pertained specifically to the behaviour on the ride, so it can't be off topic. Someone else posted that they enjoyed following rider X, whose lines were very smooth. Was that off topic also ?

The reason for the complaints is not that the post was off topic. It's because people become angry when anyone suggests taking their heads out of the sand.

There'll be more funeral threads here before the season's done. It's all good, my Gene-o-Kleen shares go up.

dangerous

24th December 2007, 12:19

Now having ridden with Dangerous a couple of times I'd have to say I've seen him cut corners and cross the centreline twice on the one ride and have spoken to other riders who have ridden with him and seen the same

In my opinion If you want to preach to other riders, then you need to be squeaky clean yourself or it becomes "do as I say not as I do"

We havent riden to geather for a year and the ride you are refering to was 2yrs ago, this new crusade of mine is just the latest improvment I am trying.. I will always be trying to improve MY and other riders skills... I am no saint and infact often a right dumbarse, how else would I not know of the dangers if I havent experanced them.

SPman

24th December 2007, 12:20

If you can't ride safely, smoothly and quickly, with maximun fun, within the confines of the white lines, you shouldn't be on a PUBLIC HIGHWAY at all!
They aren't personal racetracks!

fireball

24th December 2007, 12:21

i thought you were right from what ive read, you should always speak your mind esp when lives are involved it may save a life.
you can give me advice on my riding any day.... learning is good.
keep talking up one day someone may listening and get over their pride...hopefully before its too late.

enigma51

24th December 2007, 12:22

If you can't ride safely, smoothly and quickly, with maximun fun, within the confines of the white lines, you shouldn't be on a PUBLIC HIGHWAY at all!
They aren't personal racetracks!

So why is it the coro gp :Pokey:

PS just a stab at putting some humour in before xmas day

Have a good xmas all

You to kickha

dangerous

24th December 2007, 12:28

On right handers with FULL visibility, I do not hesitate to cross it. I'm not over there by accident or because of inaccurate vanishing lines, but simply because I trust my eyes and like taking perfect swoopy lines. My point is, I trust my ability to look and see what obstacles must be navigated. If one cannot trust themselves on this, what about intersections and overtaking maneuvers, should one even be on a bike at all?

AHHHHHH HA, and her lies the problem... the guys that have died in the past the guy that died yesterday all in head ons... I bet if you were to ask them if they saw the on comming bike/cage... they would say NO, I bet you they trusted their ability <--- your word aswell.

With any acco the rider/driver usually says "I didnt see you" well fuck me thers ya answer.

Now You say you cross the line, ok in the last ride I did that started this thread I was indercating to pass a rider on a right hander, I could see he could see.. but he then swang across the center and apexed the RIGHT hand side of the rd, had I not been onto it we would have colided.
Theres to much at stake, its not just about seing ahead.

AllanB

24th December 2007, 12:37

A funny old thing group rides - in theory a great idea - a group of like minded people enjoying their like minded machines on public roads at presumably legal speeds.

In reality a mad race by the bunch at the front, a reality check for the ones in the middle (me) and another blow to the ego of the ones at the back!

Frankly for a brand new rider I'd advise them to stay away from group rides unless they are organised with experienced riders setting a sensible pace.

So mate if you are offering any advise to riders that may help them - go for it.

As far as off topic goes, I've been on a few sites over the years and frankly the bits I enjoy the most are the banter between members - often way off topic but good fun. The most boring ones I've seen are strictly technical.

Hey - have a good Christmas and I'll see you on a local ride sometime this summer (I'll be in the middle).

mstriumph

24th December 2007, 12:43

Ok.. ...........I earned myself a red infractment (what ever that means) but basicly Kickaha the mod thought I was off topic... well I believe I was bang on topic and leeting the group know that you MUST be awair of your actions as EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION

So, Im concerned about fellow riders... but Im not allowd to comment in threads about rides I DO attend.
What do you guys reckon.. I should pull my fucking head in and let the silly wee shits kill them selves or keep trying to get my point through?...........

should you have been penalized? - no

but that's my personal opinion backed up by nothing but a sense of fair play and and respect for free speech... neither of which appear to be highly prized on here ........ so you have to ask yourself 'do you care'?? [thought not!! :devil2:]

should you carry on commenting/helping where needed? - yes

your concern does you nothing but credit
i'm a middling rider - i look for tips here and elsewhere on line and everything is potentially useful
additionally, your reputation is such that, if i were on a ride with you and you were thoughtful enough about my safety to give me pointers on how to ride safer I WOULD BLOODY WELL LISTEN and give thanks

but, once again, that's a personal viewpoint .... i'm not 'normal' - ask anyone here :rolleyes:

anyway
enjoy your festivities over the next couple of days, and stay safe :cool: - worry is a distraction!~

insane1

24th December 2007, 12:50

if advice will help someone be a better rider i say go for it .if you see some one riding and doing stupid stuff tell them when you stop for lunch/fuel whatever it may just save there lives some mods need to back off and let people speak their minds.

sugilite

24th December 2007, 13:14

Did they die crossing the centre line on a right hand corner? (I've not seen accident reports, not trying to get smart)
Do you trust your ability at intersections and overtaking?
Did you really set up a pass on a right hander, am I reading this correctly?

AHHHHHH HA, and her lies the problem... the guys that have died in the past the guy that died yesterday all in head ons... I bet if you were to ask them if they saw the on comming bike/cage... they would say NO, I bet you they trusted their ability <--- your word aswell.

With any acco the rider/driver usually says "I didnt see you" well fuck me thers ya answer.

Now You say you cross the line, ok in the last ride I did that started this thread I was indercating to pass a rider on a right hander, I could see he could see.. but he then swang across the center and apexed the RIGHT hand side of the rd, had I not been onto it we would have colided.
Theres to much at stake, its not just about seing ahead.

MadDuck

24th December 2007, 13:15

There is nothing at all wrong with saying to someone "I notice you have a habit of X. It's a rather bad habit, because Y. Maybe you don't realise you are doing it, it is an easy thing to get into the habit of. I know I do it myself , and it's something I am working on to correct".

:stupid:

Hey D :bleh:

Keep on offering that advice mate. There will always be some nogs out there who will end up in a big box 6 feet down because their balls are just way bigger than anyone elses.....

Then again you may just provide the advice that saves one or two - whether you are aware of it or not.

Maha

24th December 2007, 13:26

if advice will help someone be a better rider i say go for it .

Seems the guys Dangerous is talking about already are the best riders in NZ and dont need advise!....at least 'he' cares enough to speak out, i have on a couple of occassions....(not in public on here mind you) but via pm and then face to face...im all happy now, they know how i feel.....:yes:

scracha

24th December 2007, 14:22

I've believed for ages its because they are sighting corners/vanishing points wrong...and sadly...alot don't care!! speak up I say...but its hard to offer constructive critisisium to riders with out offending

I cross the centre line a LOT (car or motorcycle) because that's the way I was taught to ride as it's legal back in blighty.

However, on group rides it's a bad idea as a lot of inexperienced riders don't understand why it's sometimes safer to cross the line nor when it's safe to do so (i.e. when you can see right through the corner and a good distance past it and where it won't startle other traffic) and just blindly follow.

Is it actually illegal in New Zealand?

MSTRS

24th December 2007, 14:28

MSTRS

24th December 2007, 14:29

I cross the centre line a LOT (car or motorcycle) because that's the way I was taught to ride as it's legal back in blighty.

Is it actually illegal in New Zealand?

It is illegal unless it is a permitted passing manouevre

scracha

24th December 2007, 14:30

Not that I do, cos I can't be arsed anymore trying to stop people killing themselves . I realised a while ago that KB is Ostrich Central and that all people want to do is stick their heads in the sand. Every crash is "just one of those things"; "shit happens" ; just a silly mistake"; "it was the other guy's fault".

There'll be more funeral threads here before the season's done. It's all good, my Gene-o-Kleen shares go up.

Blingo to Mr Ixion

scracha

24th December 2007, 14:36

that have died in the past the guy that died yesterday all in head ons... I bet if you were to ask them if they saw the on

Bad form dangerous and the accident you're talking about wasn't on a corner with clear visibility. Nobody knows what happened (even those who were there) and it could have been that one of the riders just slid or somehow lost control.

I was indercating to pass a rider on a right hander, I could see he could see.. but he then swang across the center and apexed the RIGHT hand side of the rd, had I not been onto it we would have colided.
Theres to much at stake, its not just about seing ahead.

No, passing on a corner is just fucking stupid. Passing a motorcycle on a corner is retarded. Seems like you're the one doing dangerous riding.

Nothing wrong with apexing a right hander on the rhs when the road is clear. Nothing wrong with going on the RHS of the road prior and after a left hander if the road is clear too.

Maha

24th December 2007, 14:43

I cross the centre line a LOT (car or motorcycle) because that's the way I was taught to ride as it's legal back in blighty.

So you straighten the road out when riding?....wheres the fun in that?...:shifty:

Colapop

24th December 2007, 14:52

I remember Uncle B. He said to me once "When you stay on your side of the line, you tend to stay alive longer." I'm thankful for that advice.

R.I.P Uncle B.

I'd rather not say that about any other friends. Always state your concerns in whatever format you can.

dangerous

24th December 2007, 14:52

So you straighten the road out when riding?....wheres the fun in that?...:shifty:

It tells me he cant ride for shit and needs to slow down so as to be able to ride to the law and safely... if you need to cut a right hander then ya going to fast, I wonder if he cuts left handers? cutting the right is pure lazyness

The Stranger

24th December 2007, 14:53

In my opinion If you want to preach to other riders, then you need to be squeaky clean yourself or it becomes "do as I say not as I do"

Teaching apprentices.
I would always teach the correct way, but I used to cut corners for the sake of expediency all the time. If the apprentice did things the way I did, he would screw it up and wouldn't even know why.

Preach or teach?
Preaching, I agree with your sentiment, teaching, I see no problem with do as I say not as I do.

I don't see what Dangerous posted as preaching.

cold comfort

24th December 2007, 14:58

I have no problems with anyone more experienced offering advice dude-even in my advanced chronological state! Any time D.:niceone:

scracha

24th December 2007, 15:09

It tells me he cant ride for shit and needs to slow down so as to be able to ride to the law and safely... if you need to cut a right hander then ya going to fast, I wonder if he cuts left handers? cutting the right is pure lazyness

That's a big statement to make since you've never witnessed my riding. I'm not the one doing unsafe overtakes on corners and then trying to blame the other rider.

There's riding to the "law" in this country and there's riding to the "law" in other countries......and that's why I don't ride on the roads anymore in New Zealand. Safety doesn't come into cutting corners so long as it's done properly...in fact it's a lot safer than following the road curves. That's why cops and advanced riders in just about every other country do it. You sound like one of these Kiwi's who knows it all though so I won't bother explaining it to you.

When someone explains to me how on a clear & visible road hell it's safer to take the line on the left than the one on the right then I'll stop cutting over the centre line.

pritch

24th December 2007, 15:10

On right handers with FULL visibility, I do not hesitate to cross it.

I used to as well. Ienatchs book changed my mind. He says not to even ride with people who cannot stay on their own side of the road.

Quite apart from any safety aspect, consider you have ridden miles and you come to a lovely S bed, so you ride through it in a straight line. Seems such a waste...

scracha

24th December 2007, 15:10

So you straighten the road out when riding?....wheres the fun in that?...:shifty:
Lol...it's still fun, it's just you're taking the corners a LOT faster as they're not as sharp.

devnull

24th December 2007, 15:18

Damn... after reading the whole thread I want to change my vote to "just go along to watch the carnage" :oi-grr:

Though I'd add, stay far enough back so you don't collect a body or parts after the head on...

The old adage still applies... not everyone wants to be saved - not everyone should be saved

Let Darwin do his thing - just remember to dodge the mess

RiderInBlack

24th December 2007, 15:20

Teaching apprentices.
I would always teach the correct way, but I used to cut corners for the sake of expediency all the time. If the apprentice did things the way I did, he would screw it up and wouldn't even know why.

Preach or teach?
Preaching, I agree with your sentiment, teaching, I see no problem with do as I say not as I do.

I don't see what Dangerous posted as preaching.Totally agree 100%. Have a Learner driver that is my job ta sit in with as she learns. I back her up and praise her where she is doing the right or safer thing and own it if she points out seeing me do wrong. I want her ta be a safe driver out there and not pass on my bad habits.
As for the number of riders I have seen on group rides (especial KB ones) cutting/passing on blind right handers, TOO FU*KEN MANY. Many trucks have ta swing wide ta make corners, so even if ya not over the line (ya head could be) ya still could get hit. If ya can't see around it, put ya-self somewhere ya can and ride in such a way as to be able ta change ya line quickly if ya have ta. If ya riding balls out scraping ya pegs on a blind right hander, do ya really think ya can get ya bike up quick enough ta get ya fool head out of the way?
I for one am sick of picking up bits:doctor: when I was supposted to be enjoying my ride. Rant over.

The Stranger

24th December 2007, 16:53

Bad form dangerous and the accident you're talking about wasn't on a corner with clear visibility. Nobody knows what happened (even those who were there) and it could have been that one of the riders just slid or somehow lost control.

No, passing on a corner is just fucking stupid. Passing a motorcycle on a corner is retarded. Seems like you're the one doing dangerous riding.

Nothing wrong with apexing a right hander on the rhs when the road is clear. Nothing wrong with going on the RHS of the road prior and after a left hander if the road is clear too.

This here is exactly the reason why I tend to stick to poking shit on KB now.
Pointless being at all serious is it?
You have Dangerous making what is on the face of it, a good common sense recommendation, which co-incidentally happens to be the law of the land (with possible exceptions). Now no rule or law is 100% right in all situations - scracha feels the need to point this out (as if we didn't realise it) but the messages of both get mired in the ensuing melee.

Why would Dangerous bother again? I know I wouldn't.

Now, Talk shit, poke borax, post naked chicks or drag the conversation to sex and the green bling flows and everyone is happy and contented.

Give up Dangerous, take a leaf from Ixion's book - hell scracha even agrees with that

Blingo to Mr Ixion
But I'm sure he'll still argue anyway, after all this is KB.

MVnut

24th December 2007, 16:57

Me think you have problem a fucking serious one. It moderators like you that piss everyone off

Well said Enigma, and YES Dangerous, keep doin like you've been doin. A couple of dickheads have taken your comments too personally ( they need to grow up ) but you are upfront and genuine in your remarks. And I think you're really trying to make a difference teaching newer riders (in particular) GOOD habits rather than BAD. Bad habits can be disastrous!! I've ridden in many countries and done maybe 2500000km on bikes ranging from trials thru to Superbike (also racing and coaching but that's not really on topic) and I would be more than happy to take advice from someone who really cares about others (ie YOU) . I have some bad habits still & I know it, group rides are a bit different anyway and if you save the bacon of one person you can be proud of yourself.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

MSTRS

24th December 2007, 16:59

DEATH_INC.

24th December 2007, 17:17

In my opinion If you want to preach to other riders, then you need to be squeaky clean yourself or it becomes "do as I say not as I do"
What a load of crap! If he can save one life by telling someone the right way, not his way, it's the right thing to do and it should be encouraged, not dissed! :yes:

AllanB

24th December 2007, 17:47

That little picture of cutting corners was really great - it clearly shows what happened to my bowels this morning due to last nights curry.:woohoo:

Hmmmm chicken curry yum.

Sorry this was a bit off topic :shifty:

dangerous

24th December 2007, 18:06

Hey look thanks guys... I was just impressed that I spelt penalised correct!
But more impressed with the most of the posts.
Riding is my life (about to change as I have duffed the missus DOH) and it is a strong passion to see it strive and grow. In the time I have been riding I have seen motorcycling come and go, at the moment I reckon its on the rise, which is awesome, but we need to look after the new riders so as motorcycles are here to stay.

Ok so like I said I aint no saint, but I strive on riding well and improving all the time and yes even I have room for many an improvment.
Now altho this thread was brought about by some riders that took offence to my judging them (best interests meant) I have to say there are some in chch that have listened and I have seen them improve heaps, yeah that gives me a big head but fuck it... it makes it all worth while, so I am going to carry on helping out riders and yes I realise that there will be those ignorant that will think I am a right c@#t... but ya know what I dont care, thanks for your support.

Now while I will stick to what I believe in, it may not be right or correct but it works for me and had me survive 24 years riding, so I must be doing something right, so therefore I see no problem in passing on my experiences. I know I'm not always the most tactful online, but I usually have others interests in mind.

boomer

24th December 2007, 18:13

The moral of this story.... NEVER piss a redhead off!

MVnut

24th December 2007, 18:13

Congratulations Rashika..............oh and you too D ::woohoo:

chanceyy

24th December 2007, 18:25

inlinefour

24th December 2007, 18:31

Keep offerring the advice Dangerous, the person who handed out the infraction has a problem (not getting what they want for Xmas?).But, its not like its the first time that someone has recieved an infraction for something petty, but this takes the cake.
When I got the CBR600RR it was also pointed out to me that not only did I need to remain within my side of the road, but when I was tipped over, I also needed to consider where my head was in relation to the other side of the road and potential traffic coming the other way. Made me think long and hard about it as I knew there had allready been times that I had put myself in harms way. Now without the help of a more experienced rider, I might have ended up in harms way. I would have thought that by not promoting this (if that was intended), it goes against what kiwibiker is really about?

sunhuntin

24th December 2007, 18:53

ooo, congrats rashika and dangerous!! gonna be a baby dangerashika!!

Gaz

24th December 2007, 18:57

Dangerous, At least one person reading this will have changed the way they look at the white line. And it may save their life - This wouldn't of happened without the infraction - There's no such thing as bad publicity!

I've Never replied to a post before, but there's one thing that everyone missed. What if you were coming the other way and the muppet on the wrong side hit you. Impact of 200km/hr+. Not your fault, or your passengers.

If you live you'll remember that plonker forever.
I drive(yes a car!) and ride fast but I can always stop in half the visible road ahead. Please If you are coming towards me, stop in your half.

Dangerous, I wouldn't have read this topic unless youd' got a red card - It WAS worth it.

Katman

24th December 2007, 18:59

Ahhh, reading this thread makes me feel that all the flack I've copped over the last few months has all been worthwhile. I'm feeling all warm and runny inside at the moment.:msn-wink:

xwhatsit

24th December 2007, 21:47

Ixion

24th December 2007, 22:00

Do you trail brake? Usually works well with bikes like yours. And full gauntlet as soon as you reach apex , maybe even a bit before if the gear ratios are right

Ghost_Bullet

24th December 2007, 22:03

Keep on keepin on. advice no matter how it is put is way better than none. I would much rather be hearing some hints, tips, or a down right telling off, rather that continueing to hear of bikers endin up 6ft under, or even slightly mamed esp those where the incident was at thier fault.

It would be much better that we do our training "In House" as it were, rather than say legislation being put in place to practically drive us off the roads all together, to save ongoing cost for cleaning up mess's all over the country side. Just because people are to pig headed to listen and atempt to adhere to some simple riding principles.

Unfortuantly we live in a real world, we cannot simulate it, get it right, then go out and do it for real in most cases. It is do it make mistakes and hope ya come out at the other end a better person with better skills than before.

I am far from perfect, and appreciate any comments passed regarding my practices.

Thanks... and merry xmas... is that Santa I hear????

scumdog

24th December 2007, 22:17

Ah shuddup a soppy ranting ginga cunt!

Just keep on telling it like it is.
Those that REALLY want to improve will take notice.

Those with egos bigger than their ability wil keep slagging you off (who cares?) and falling off.

Ya mean well, ya know a lot and ya need to transfer that info - even if it is in 'dangerese'!!

My thoughts on the evolution of cutting corners (judging by some coroner reports):
Ya cut a corner - nobody coming towards you, sweet.
Ya cut a corner and there's a car/bike coming towrds ya (but a safe distance away).
Ya cut a corner and there's a car/bike fairly close - but still tons of time.
Ya cut a corner and there's a car/bike coming towards ya and shee-it, a bit close but hey, got there.
Ya cut a corner and there's a car/bike coming towards ya and it's ferkin' close but ooo-ee ya scrape in on time
Ya cut a corner and there's a car/bike coming towards ya and man-o-man is it CLOSE but hell, ya just squeak in with a bit of rapid counter steering and a bucket of luck
Ya cut a corner and there's a car/bike coming towards and ya reackn if ya.. SPLAT!!!
RIP
It might take a month - or might take ten years but if ya start habitually cutting corners there's a good to average chance you'll follow the above evolution to its conclusion.

xwhatsit

24th December 2007, 22:26

Do you trail brake? Usually works well with bikes like yours. And full gauntlet as soon as you reach apex , maybe even a bit before if the gear ratios are right

I do trail brake, overmuch I think. I'll try giving it more beans earlier in the corner, which is something I always have a mental block about, despite the suspension settling down when I do so. Not like I have to worry about high-siding.

Cheers.

scumdog

24th December 2007, 22:34

ooo, congrats rashika and dangerous!! gonna be a baby dangerashika!!

Trust a ginga to get a flash sheila knocked-up.

As said on the movies: "dorks get all the best snatch"

(heheheheh!)

cave weta

24th December 2007, 22:35

:niceone:Yep keep offering the advice, your words of wisdom hopefully will be used before, another bites the dust full time !! Went to my friends funeral on Wednesday, lost control went over the centre line, Karangahake gorge (Waihi) don't want to have to go to any more, simple really back up on the pace, be like a hawke with your eyes, live to enjoy your bike and the excitement it gives, ride forever not part time.....

Hey- I havent been out to the Gorge for a look but the word around Waihi is that the SCU's painted marks indicate the impact on the bikes side of the white line!? and further words say that the local dude in the car has always had a name for being one to 'Put the shits up' people by swerving at them! It did happen on a right hand corner, - (for the biker)
And my question is: what are the chances of a bike at highway speed getting thrown inwards when centifugal force and inertia are both forcing the bike outward?

OOPS!- :Offtopic:

scumdog

24th December 2007, 22:37

When someone explains to me how on a clear & visible road hell it's safer to take the line on the left than the one on the right then I'll stop cutting over the centre line.

And if catch you I'll issue you with a 35 demerit ticket every time too.

Young guys here read your shit - and may well die following your shit.

Colapop

24th December 2007, 22:40

You know, I offer opinion every day. Whether people take what I say as advice is up to them. I may be right, I may be wrong. I choose to ride with people or not - the choice is mine. Just like an opinion - take it as advice or not, it's up to you.

You can please some of the people some of the time.

The Stranger

24th December 2007, 22:47

Where should I be looking?

Here (http://www.rrrs.org.nz)

Maha

24th December 2007, 22:51

Here (http://www.rrrs.org.nz)

Dude!!!...that plane is about to land on your students!....:gob:

The Stranger

24th December 2007, 22:56

Dude!!!...that plane is about to land on your students!....:gob:

Hazard avoidance maha.
When you've completed one of our courses you're ready for fooken anything.
You never know when you are going to have to avoid a plane.

Colapop

24th December 2007, 22:57

Da plane Da plane!

mstriumph

25th December 2007, 00:06

CONGRATULATIONS RASHIKA!!!!!

oh - and you, too, Dangerous :apint:

Shadows

25th December 2007, 00:08

When someone explains to me how on a clear & visible road hell it's safer to take the line on the left than the one on the right then I'll stop cutting over the centre line.

Lol...it's still fun, it's just you're taking the corners a LOT faster as they're not as sharp.

That road might appear to be clear and visible, but what about Mavis who was coming out of that driveway on the right, looking the other way as comes naturally when she turns left onto the road, all of which was obscured from you by a small rise in the road imperceptible to you in your 220kph crouch until it was too late.

Let me draw you a little picture.

Spuds1234

25th December 2007, 00:37

I think what this all comes down to is this:

Dangerous does seem to offer some good constructive advice to some people who need it, trouble is mainly the way that he goes about offering it online.

Perhaps he is joking when he insults someone or everyone, perhaps he isnt but my point is, is that you cannot tell with text alone on a webpage. There are far more things that go into language than just text. Reading the text from a conversation gives you about 7% of the information that the people included in the conversation had. There is no body language, no tone or pitch, no volume. Your just adding those things in your head as you read the text.

I think you should still come along on the rides Dangerous, and when you see something point it out. Hell if I made a mistake I would like to know about it (assuming it didnt result in an obvious accident where I could obviously tell that I'd fucked up like last time ;)).

I just think that offering advice in person is a way better way to go rather than doing it online as there is a lesser chance for an argument to develop, and if one does its easier to walk away (hell who doesnt feel invincible behind their keyboards?)

If someone plays up on the ride, then we should speak up as a group and tell him to pull his head in and not ride like an idiot (those that saw the incident and as we are ment to be riding as a group, it should atleast be 2 people who saw it). While this is everyones ride, and we should encourage people to ride within their limits (maybe some are higher than everyone else's) but stupid shit on any ones part should not be tolerated on a group ride.

RiderInBlack

25th December 2007, 08:17

One thing that often runs in my head went out riding is:
Would I like ta met me, or one of the other riders I'm with, coming the other way?
This has only got stronger since here about Loosebruce and DSS3's deaths. Wish they had been thinking about that.
Tributes to LooseBruce and DSS3 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1258783&highlight=Loose+Bruce#post1258783)
Farewell to good friends (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=848159&highlight=Loose+Bruce#post848159)

Least we forget.

As for the PM sent to me, as far as I'm concerned if a rider is being a dick, then he should count himself lucky that someone cares enough about him/her ta give them some abuse about it. Better that than the Hospital or the Morgue.

Big Dog

25th December 2007, 09:16

If your intentions were good fuck the infraction. Wear it with pride.

So they may not listen... that is not your problem.
Your problem is how you will feel if you missed the opportunity to offer them some good information that may save their lives. It may not also but you gave them the choice to listen or to cry to a mod.

Every opportunity I get I give people a good talking to on line or in person, never name names on line though, if their actions put themselves or others at risk.

You never know, the person with whom you had the issue may not be the life you save, it could be the life of someone else who is listening and see's some of their own riding in the discussion or who realises that they have chosen the wrong hero.

You don't have to save lives, but how will you feel knowing you said nothing?

TonyB

25th December 2007, 09:50

We havent riden to geather for a year and the ride you are refering to was 2yrs ago, this new crusade of mine is just the latest improvment I am trying.. I will always be trying to improve MY and other riders skills... I am no saint and infact often a right dumbarse, how else would I not know of the dangers if I havent experanced them. Well said D...badly spelt but well said;)

I always thought the idea was to look as far ahead as possible, BUT use your perhiperal vison to ensure that you are still on the outside of the corner until you get to the point where you want to turn in. For me, turning in too soon is a sign that I am starting to feel uncomfortable with the speed I'm doing, and its time to slow down a bit.

oldrider

25th December 2007, 10:41

These sort of people do everything the same way, you just can't help them!

But keep trying Dangerous, just keep on trying! :headbang: Cheers John.

Mikkel

25th December 2007, 13:23

Keep it up D - keep giving the advice. Even if only 1 in 10 will listen and remember, it might still make a difference!

One thing I think a lot of people fail to appreciate, especially when starting to learn, is a saying which is more or less derived from Socrates DA MAN!

"The more I learn, the more I realise I don't know!"
(And ultimately, the wise man is the man who only knows that he knows nothing.)

I guess a lot of things could be said about the delivery - but I for one am not doubting that you got good intentions! My recommendations would be to chuck some smileys in there - it makes everything go down much better. I.e.:

"D you're a fucking wanker!!!"

or

"D you're a fucking wanker!!! ;) :yes:"

Then again, it depends on the result you're trying to get... Oh, and we know you aren't a wanker - congratulations on the pregnancy!

As for practicing what you preach, I don't buy it. I'm certainly not going to not drink alcohol until my kids would reach an age where I thought it would be alright for them to drink. The same thing goes for sex, driving cars, riding, etc.
And yes, it's a fair comparison... If D has been riding for 24 years and someone has been riding for less than 5 they could well be considered children in that aspect.

Mikkel

25th December 2007, 13:31

Oh an regarding the infraction... I don't think that was justified at all.

Good thing these things can be reversed - and let's hope that the merry merry Ho ho ho Christmas spirit will soften the evil evil moderators heart to such a degree that he might grant D a merry Christmas as well ;)

Mom

25th December 2007, 14:05

Offer advice mate, dont stop. Centre lines are actually there for a reason on our roads, with out them people seem unable to KEEP LEFT at all!

Racing lines are all well and good but they belong on the track not the road.

A bit more than 25 years ago a friend of mine was running late for work, tooted his horn as he zoomed past the shop, he was dead 5 mins later. This on Woodcocks road ( a well loved bike road in these parts) on a wide sweeping right hander with heaps of visibility, them corners can be very dangerous! Personally I stay my side of the line, them corners are fun that way!

Rashika

25th December 2007, 14:43

No, passing on a corner is just fucking stupid. Passing a motorcycle on a corner is retarded. Seems like you're the one doing dangerous riding.

Nothing wrong with apexing a right hander on the rhs when the road is clear. Nothing wrong with going on the RHS of the road prior and after a left hander if the road is clear too.
I dont understand... you seem to think its fine to cross the centreline for no reason 'cept to straighten the road out (and why would any biker wanna do that?) but not in order to pass a slower vehicle -car or bike or other (given the way being clear in both instances)? Why not for passing? Its actually safer for passing, as the manouvre is over much quicker, than on a straight road.

That road might appear to be clear and visible, but what about Mavis who was coming out of that driveway on the right, looking the other way as comes naturally when she turns left onto the road, all of which was obscured from you by a small rise in the road imperceptible to you in your 220kph crouch until it was too late.

Let me draw you a little picture.
Yep and it is a very real possibility. It seems to tug some memory of such an incident happening to a rider not so long ago here in NZ.

Ah well I wasn't gonna comment, but I cant help myself.
Firstly: ta to all those who have commented on my 'condition' Just cant shut a ginga up at times :shutup:
2ndly: Yeah he is not always the most tactful, but means well. I personally dont think the post WAS off topic (very on topic actually), but I guess K just didn't want all the ruffled feathers running to him again. Gotta keep things all so pleasant, I mean we are all so PC eh? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hope you are all having a bloody fine xmas and staying away from those roads if you have had a couple. Nothing i need to worry about for a while, haven't Appletisers come a long way, they actually taste nice... I'd forgotten! :Punk:

Mikkel

25th December 2007, 15:56

I dont understand... you seem to think its fine to cross the centreline for no reason 'cept to straighten the road out (and why would any biker wanna do that?) but not in order to pass a slower vehicle -car or bike or other (given the way being clear in both instances)? Why not for passing? Its actually safer for passing, as the manouvre is over much quicker, than on a straight road.

Indeed a sweeping right hander with 100% visibility is the best place to do an overtake, period. However, that's assuming that your "prey" isn't going to cut the corner - and it seems that Kiwis are actually more likely to cut a corner if they see anyone who's about to overtake. It's all about staying in front at all times while sitting 5 km/h below the speedlimit it seems... :rolleyes:

Hope you are all having a bloody fine xmas and staying away from those roads if you have had a couple. Nothing i need to worry about for a while, haven't Appletisers come a long way, they actually taste nice... I'd forgotten! :Punk:

Good on ya for having a few christmas drinks - but I'd be careful or the PC crew might take offense to you drinking while having your condition ;)
Have a nice one, and as was said, stay the fuck away from the roads after having had a few!

GaZBur

25th December 2007, 15:57

Ok.. So, Im concerned about fellow riders... but Im not allowd to comment in threads about rides I DO attend.
What do you guys reckon...* also would like to add in last weeks ride there were 2 bins alone

I take it your infraction was for posting the right stuff in the wrong place. I also reckon seen as you asking for opinion, that if you are getting through to a few who are dangerous to themselves and others - do what you doing now. If your advice is being ignored then you need to find a safer group to ride with coz if there have 2 bins on a social ride you are probably riding with a bunch of fecking idiots, and one of them could take you out!!! You need to take care of yourself too mate! OK, I have had a few bins this year through going too hard, ON THE TRACK. On the road I ride like everyone is about to swing in my path or pull out, can't see me etc etc.
Bling to Shadow for you neat pic as this is just soooo common.
If you are riding with people who regularly cross the centre line you are riding with the wrong people - keep away from them. If you want to get by them make sure you pass on a straight when they aren't likely to try a pass too.

dipshit

25th December 2007, 16:08

So, all ye advice-givers, I'd like some. On right-handers I do find myself drifting inexorably towards the centre-line, and although I've rarely crossed it, I'm sure there's been situations where my head and body have been in the oncoming lane. Often it means I have to change lines mid-corner to get back where I should be.

How to avoid this? Where should I be looking? Or is it a simple matter of delaying the apex as long as possible?

Sounds like perhaps you are taking more of a classic line through corners.??

A 'late turn-in, late apex' approach (slow in, fast out) works good for street riding. You will need to roll the bike into the corner a lot quicker in the initial late turn-in phase, but you will have more control over where you put the bike on the road for the rest of the corner. A 'late turn-in, late apex' line generally allows you to get on the gas a lot earlier, so if you need to change your line mid corner for that unforeseen bump, dead cat, or to give more room for an oncoming car... you can more easily and you also have the option of getting off the gas if need be.

dangerous

25th December 2007, 18:54

If your advice is being ignored then you need to find a safer group to ride with coz if there have 2 bins on a social ride you are probably riding with a bunch of fecking idiots, and one of them could take you out!!! You need to take care of yourself too mate! .
Na, the thread where I was infracted was a newbee mid week cruzie ride, I dont normaly ride with this crew, but was asked to attend to help out... the guys asking took my advice on board and were thankfull.
I usually ride with a group that has pleanty of experance.
The problem came cos I saw wild antics by several other riders and I thought Id offer advice, taken in by some but taken as offence by others.
At the end of the day I want to help out and keep motorcycling grwowing in NZ.
But my posting safe riding and the results that unsafe riding can result in on the ride threads brought on a few anti members and PC mods.

dipshit

25th December 2007, 19:08

That road might appear to be clear and visible, but what about Mavis who was coming out of that driveway on the right, looking the other way as comes naturally when she turns left onto the road, all of which was obscured from you by a small rise in the road imperceptible to you in your 220kph crouch until it was too late.

Let me draw you a little picture.

Yep, It's always the one you don't see that will get you.

_Shrek_

25th December 2007, 19:39

Ok.. so I said on a local mid week ride thread (as I have ridden with this group several times) that Im concerned with ther riding pratices.
Now I just posted up on the thread take it easy out there cos with the way the group croses the center line ther will be a serious acco, and I gave the example of the guy killed this w/e in a head on south Canty.
I earned myself a red infractment (what ever that means) but basicly Kickaha the mod thought I was off topic... well I believe I was bang on topic and leeting the group know that you MUST be awair of your actions as EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION

So, Im concerned about fellow riders... but Im not allowd to comment in threads about rides I DO attend.
What do you guys reckon.. I should pull my fucking head in and let the silly wee shits kill them selves or keep trying to get my point through?

* just as a note in the preiveous thread on these rides a KBer posted that he nearly killed him self but didnt apair to give a shit, I had already spoken to this member earler that day.
* also would like to add in last weeks ride there were 2 bins alone

keep it up D & sod the pc bull.... say it as it is & if they dont like tell them to build a bridge & GET OVER IT :ranting:

there arnt enough like yourself who are ready to put their rep on the line when it comes to telling some of the Learners, knowit alls & straight out A/H who think they are hot stuff but realy are only cold farts warmed up :argh:

keep it up D coz i have heard your advice & its good

cheers Shrek

98tls

25th December 2007, 19:50

Ok..
What do you guys reckon.. I should pull my fucking head in and let the silly wee shits kill them selves or keep trying to get my point through?
Keep trying D you only need one to learn something to make it all worthwhile eh.My old man used to shake his head and say "why the fuck wont you listen to me,everything you have and will ever do ive done it" i just didnt get it at the time:oi-grr:wish i had earlier would have saved me alot of grief.<_<

The Stranger

25th December 2007, 22:16

As for the PM sent to me, as far as I'm concerned if a rider is being a dick, then he should count himself lucky that someone cares enough about him/her ta give them some abuse about it. Better that than the Hospital or the Morgue.

Assuming you got the same PM as I, it would appear that the issues are of a personal nature.
The Internet is not the best place to air your dirty laundry and for future reference, I am not really interested in one side of a personal squabble.

I would be very disapointed if as the author of the PM claims dangerous was infracted for personal reasons and not for his behaviour on KB.
Though I must admit, it's hard to see why else Dangerous was infracted.

RiderInBlack

26th December 2007, 06:33

Assuming you got the same PM as I.Yep. And I feel the same way.
For me ya ether say up front what ya want ta say, or don't say it at all. I don't take too kindly to "talking" behind peoples' backs. Had too much of that going on when I was Nursing.

Rashika

26th December 2007, 07:04

Indeed a sweeping right hander with 100% visibility is the best place to do an overtake, period. However, that's assuming that your "prey" isn't going to cut the corner - and it seems that Kiwis are actually more likely to cut a corner if they see anyone who's about to overtake. It's all about staying in front at all times while sitting 5 km/h below the speedlimit it seems... :rolleyes:
that is indeed the problem. But if I ever make a manouvre like that its usually cos I've sat behind em for a few corners and watched first to see if they are likely to move over.

Good on ya for having a few christmas drinks - but I'd be careful or the PC crew might take offense to you drinking while having your condition ;)
Have a nice one, and as was said, stay the fuck away from the roads after having had a few!
...and being of the non kiwi variety you prob dont know but appletiser and its counterpart, grapetiser, are non alcoholic. ;)

dangerous

26th December 2007, 09:28

As for the PM sent to me

Assuming you got the same PM as I, it would appear that the issues are of a personal nature.
The Internet is not the best place to air your dirty laundry and for future reference, I am not really interested in one side of a personal squabble.

I would be very disapointed if as the author of the PM claims dangerous was infracted for personal reasons and not for his behaviour on KB.
Though I must admit, it's hard to see why else Dangerous was infracted.

Well, I didnt see that one comming... in all honestly I dont have personal problems with any one, I have always believed that it takes less energy to get on with a person rather than not to.

Now kickhah who infracted me is a mate, but unfortunatly he takes his role on KB a bit to serious and plays by the book only, a rules a rule, fair enough... but we all must remember this is the internet. I would be very disapointed how ever if it was him sending the p/m's but I doubt it very much, infact Id say it would be some one who has not posted on this thread nor has been on a wensday ride that this topic was started from, Id say some one with out balls and no idea of how many mates I have lerking about here.

Thanks again for the suport every body.

rwh

26th December 2007, 10:44

Here (http://www.rrrs.org.nz)

Hmm. All events in the calendar are historical, however ...

Richard

The Stranger

26th December 2007, 10:53

Hmm. All events in the calendar are historical, however ...

Richard

Thank you, good point. We normally sit down at the beginning of the year and sort out dates for the coming year, so will get to this shortly.

In the mean time, courses are held on the 3rd Sunday of every month, except Feb (Clashes with BOS) and December. That said, this year Jan is a little different and is the second Sunday. So, the next 2 courses will be - the 13th of Jan 08 and the 16th of Mar 08.

Sharry

26th December 2007, 11:41

[QUOTE=Shrek lone rider;1355087]keep it up D & sod the pc bull.... say it as it is & if they dont like tell them to build a bridge & GET OVER IT :ranting:

there arnt enough like yourself who are ready to put their rep on the line when it comes to telling some of the Learners, knowit alls & straight out A/H who think they are hot stuff but realy are only cold farts warmed up :argh:

keep it up D coz i have heard your advice & its good

cheers Shrek[

Thanks for saying that Shrek. As a sorta newbie/learner having had a 27 year break and looking for my next bike, I need to know that when I am in a group someone will open their mouth if I am doing something stupid. Whether that is by mistake or bad attitude, I want to avoid making riding dangerous for myself or anyone else. And therefore rely on those around around me to give constructive feedback.

Thanks D
Sharry

Mikkel

26th December 2007, 11:55

...and being of the non kiwi variety you prob dont know but appletiser and its counterpart, grapetiser, are non alcoholic. ;)

Ok, I did indeed not know that. Appetiser where I'm from is usually a sweetish white wine (sometimes with added juice, fruit, ice and even sometimes vodka to spice it up) that you drink while mingling before heading to the tables :)

But there we go - in the old world it won't get our appetites going without having alcohol... :no:

Sharry

26th December 2007, 12:11

Ok, I did indeed not know that. Appetiser where I'm from is usually a sweetish white wine (sometimes with added juice, fruit, ice and even sometimes vodka to spice it up) that you drink while mingling before heading to the tables :)

But there we go - in the old world it won't get our appetites going without having alcohol... :no:

Your right Appetiser is consumed predinner. Appletiser on the other hand is a non alcoholic sparkling apple drink, now made with grape (Grapetser).
I have always used it for the kids at xmas when adults are drinking sparkling wine.

MSTRS

26th December 2007, 12:39

Assuming you got the same PM as I, it would appear that the issues are of a personal nature.

Think I got it too.
The PMer doesn't seem to realise that 'issues of a personal nature' are usually not just in one direction, and history has a habit of going back for quite some time....and that the perception of positional abuse takes precedence over any actual abuse - happening or otherwise.

DMNTD

26th December 2007, 13:09

Hmmmmmmm....maybe it's the people that complained re Dangerous' posts of advice(which resulted in an infraction) that should of been infracted for choosing not to take advice on safe road riding.
I've been riding off and on for 20 years but I'm always grateful for more experienced riders advice whether I agree with it or not.
it's an odd world innit...

P38

26th December 2007, 13:25

Mate some people are just

Beyond Help

not your problem

But good on ya for trying:niceone:

Hitcher

26th December 2007, 14:08

Infraction for giving advice WOW

If only life was so simple.

rwh

26th December 2007, 14:34

... So, the next 2 courses will be - the 13th of Jan 08 and ...

Bugger. Due back at work in Wellington on the 14th, so not really feasible.

Oh well, never mind :)

Richard

dangerous

26th December 2007, 15:31

If only life was so simple.

thats right... secret p/m's going around bull shit being said, next I will be acused of harasment, theres some gutless trouble makers around Hitch, ya shouldent believe all the complaints you get.

Hitcher

26th December 2007, 17:03

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Disingenuousness doesn't become you.

dangerous

26th December 2007, 17:26

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Disingenuousness doesn't become you.

Boring old world other wise Hitch, and sorry I can't find that long 'D' word in the Dangerese dictionary :niceone:

onearmedbandit

26th December 2007, 19:54

I believe the author of said PM has never been on one of the rides mentioned either, so I have no idea where he would be getting his info from. Nor has he ridden ever with dangerous.

miSTa

26th December 2007, 20:06

Boring old world other wise Hitch, and sorry I can't find that long 'D' word in the Dangerese dictionary :niceone:
Probably not in your dictionary but I'm sure you would've spelt it at least once.

I believe the author of said PM has never been on one of the rides mentioned either, so I have no idea where he would be getting his info from. Nor has he ridden ever with dangerous.
Be buggered if I know where the info is coming from either. Yeah we all know that D likes being out front BUT, on just about all occasions, he also makes sure no members of a group are left behind at intersections, turn offs, etc. He will also go to the back of the group and check out what's going on there before making his way back to the front (and quite often observing people in the process).

Keep up the good work. I know I've learnt a shitload from talking to and watching you.

dangerous

26th December 2007, 20:53

Hey Ive just been infracted again, by Virago... for going off topic again in the same thread... well fuck me yet a member P/Ming crap to people like propaganda gets away with it cos the Mod I bothered said he dosent care about Chch and our rides... go figer :msn-wink:

Mikkel

26th December 2007, 21:41

Your right Appetiser is consumed predinner. Appletiser on the other hand is a non alcoholic sparkling apple drink, now made with grape (Grapetser).
I have always used it for the kids at xmas when adults are drinking sparkling wine.

There we go - I just assumed the "l" was a typo... :rolleyes:
*sigh* So much for being an attentive forum user I gues.

thats right... secret p/m's going around bull shit being said, next I will be acused of harasment, theres some gutless trouble makers around Hitch, ya shouldent believe all the complaints you get.

So did you actually get infracted? ;)

Hey Ive just been infracted again, by Virago... for going off topic again in the same thread... well fuck me yet a member P/Ming crap to people like propaganda gets away with it cos the Mod I bothered said he dosent care about Chch and our rides... go figer :msn-wink:

Aww come on that's just over the top. That's just beyond ridiculous!
Guess we should make the Chch wednesday cruisy night rides thread point to the real deal and keep it on the www.nzsbf.co.nz forum instead. Seems that's what the mods want.

sunhuntin

26th December 2007, 21:44

Aww come on that's just over the top. That's just beyond ridiculous!
Guess we should make the Chch wednesday cruisy night rides thread point to the real deal and keep it on the www.nzsbf.co.nz forum instead. Seems that's what the mods want.

bloody bollocks is what it is... how the hell can one person be infracted twice for the same "error" by two different people?? i mean, 2 cops cannot write out 2 tickets for the exact same offence!

Rashika

27th December 2007, 07:11

bloody bollocks is what it is... how the hell can one person be infracted twice for the same "error" by two different people?? i mean, 2 cops cannot write out 2 tickets for the exact same offence!

yeah a bit like writing out a ticket for speeding when you weren't and not getting one for failing to wear your seatbelt when you didn't.

What exactly is taking a thread offtopic meant to mean? I woulda thought 'Stirring' would be a more suitable offence, given that both posts were very much on the topic at hand BUT were probably meant to provoke a response. Guess we aint allowed lively discussion on KB anymore...

So let me get this right: we can discuss alcohol recipies but NOT food recipies on a thread about a weekly evening ride?
Given that most rides ends at a food and drink place, that seems a little odd, but I guess I am but a pleb and certainly not knowledgeble enough to know the grand scheme of things.
Must always defers to my elders... or is it youngers? Buggered if I know, too many rules for me.

miSTa

27th December 2007, 07:29

What exactly is taking a thread offtopic meant to mean? I woulda thought 'Stirring' would be a more suitable offence, given that both posts were very much on the topic at hand BUT were probably meant to provoke a response. Guess we aint allowed lively discussion on KB anymore...
Dangerous has had least three posts deleted, provocative maybe, off topic no. IMHO of course...

dangerous

27th December 2007, 08:58

So did you actually get infracted? ;)Aww come on that's just over the top. That's just beyond ridiculous!
yeah oth, check out my profile Im sure you can see that sort a info thses days, dont bother me either way the net is just a big game after all, its the on rd situations we need to address.

bloody bollocks is what it is... how the hell can one person be infracted twice for the same "error" by two different people?? i mean, 2 cops cannot write out 2 tickets for the exact same offence!

Ummm, not for the same post... OAB and my self were having some fun last night with a moderator (cos Im major news in the mods forum, they all on my case cos im about to blow the place up)
Yeah we were posting off topic but just about bacon and egg pie, no abuse, stiring or anything like that, hell its the festive season we should be having fun.

IMO all threads end up off topic hell this ones taking a detour at the moment, but thats cos I reckon the threads done its job... Thanks for the support people :niceone:

Guess we should make the Chch wednesday cruisy night rides thread point to the real deal and keep it on the www.nzsbf.co.nz forum instead. Seems that's what the mods want.
A good idea considering its a local forum... how ever thers some posting on KB that I for one wouldnt want on SBF, and at the moment the sites a bit US as its having a few big changes done.

Hitcher

27th December 2007, 16:56

dangerous

27th December 2007, 17:05

This Moderator is getting tired of this. Please make it stop.

Ohh man, my threads being hijacked :shifty:
Hey Hitch we can make it stop but IMHO it is 99% brought on by the moderators them selves (Im not counting you in on this) they get peoples backs up by targeting certain people you know what I mean look at ya mod forum... hell am I really that bad?
Check out my reps/pm's and look at the amount of decent long time KBer's that are sick of the new regime (did I spell that right? was a tricky one) the mods adhere to.

And umm I think you have worn a bit of flack cos the real stern mods are all at the Wangers racing.

Rashika

27th December 2007, 17:15

This is all getting a bit silly. And could the PMs to me on this topic, what ever it is supposed to be, please stop.

As I have told a couple of the protagonists who have PMed me, I am not much interested in off-site politics. As a Moderator I endeavour to maintain some impartiality and deal with posts based on their on-site content. A few weeks ago when this nonsense erupted, a couple of people were "great mates" and Moderators were over-reacting in terms of their responses. If "great mates" are being misunderstood, then perhaps they should strive for a bit more clarity in terms of what they post, or stop playing Jedi mind-games with each other via this site. Or, preferably, both.

This Moderator is getting tired of this. Please make it stop.

you know the old saying, cant handle the heat get outa the kitchen ;)

Seriously tho... the Initial pm everyone was mentioning, you were not privileged to receive Hitcher (neither were most people), and it did disparage a longstanding member (in private where he was unable to reply) to a whole lot of other members for no reason at all. You say offsite politics, but this was one member abusing another on KB; they had only ever meet once in person and there was no animosity then, the ginga even intro'ed himself and shook the others hand. Quite frankly I wouldn't have wasted my time. And funnily enough it had nothing really to do with this thread, but there ya go. ;)

One has a bee in his bonnet over fuck knows what and wont let it go, the other is a ginga.

Bonez

27th December 2007, 19:20

I voted for the first option and I'm a ginga. Some threads just go on and on and on.....................................and achieve fuck all.

Edit- Maybe this should be moved to rants and raves.

dangerous

27th December 2007, 19:48

I voted for the first option and I'm a ginga.

Hello Mr Bonez, welcome to GA (Ginga's Anonymous) you have taken the 1st step in recovery to becoming a non ginga, pleas have a seat... :Oops:

Over 100 votes, and I would have thought more would have voted for option 4... nice going people.

sunhuntin

27th December 2007, 19:50

Hello Mr Bonez, welcome to GA (Ginga's Anonymous) you have taken the 1st step in recovery to becoming a non ginga, pleas have a seat... :Oops:

Over 100 votes, and I would have thought more would have voted for option 4... nice going people.

nothin wrong with gingas... they go grey quite nicely. [just wait 20 years, dangerous, and youll see what i mean!]

chanceyy

27th December 2007, 19:51

I voted for the first option and I'm a ginga. Some threads just go on and on and on.....................................and achieve fuck all.

Edit- Maybe this should be moved to rants and raves.

Hello Mr Bonez, welcome to GA (Ginga's Anonymous) you have taken the 1st step in recovery to becoming a non ginga, pleas have a seat... :Oops:

:killingme .. we have two opposite ends of the red headed ginga personality .. one laid back the other fiery .. dunno if its an age thing or not .. guess time will tell to see if the fiery one will mellow with age :laugh: :cool: :lol: :Oops: :Offtopic:

dangerous

27th December 2007, 19:53

nothin wrong with gingas... they go grey quite nicely. [just wait 20 years, dangerous, and youll see what i mean!]

AHHHH HA.. you used to be one ya old girl :rockon: Im onto you, and ummm. damn it I dont need to wait 20yrs :eek5:

:killingme .. we have two opposite ends of the red headed ginga personality .. one laid back the other fiery .. dunno if its an age thing or not .. guess time will tell to see if the fiery one will mellow with age :laugh: :cool: :lol: :Oops: :Offtopic:

Hell yeah Im way laid back... you wana see me rark up, sounds like Bonze needs a chill pill :Punk:

*gota get in 1st round here ;)

chanceyy

27th December 2007, 20:02

Hell yeah Im way laid back... you wana see me rark up, sounds like Bonze needs a chill pill :Punk:

hmm errr :yes: right .. & do we need a poll to put that theory to the test .. :killingme

ahh no I think not .. you need the chill pill hon :innocent::shutup:

btw .. go do them dishes ..

Bonez

27th December 2007, 20:05

*gota get in 1st round here ;)Bit late on that one I feel.

You for got matchstick in the rep ;)

chanceyy

27th December 2007, 20:06

Bit late on that one I feel.

I concur :laugh: .. but nice try D

NighthawkNZ

28th December 2007, 09:18

I earned myself a red infractment

I like red, its brighter than green.

I agree with your statement about keeping on your side, and not just your wheels but also your head when in a corner...

I will admit I have on a couple of corners that I have miss read and when the camber is wrong, I don't know the road, very tigh and I can't twist my head that far round, or I just plain fucked up, blah blah blah... I have accidentally cut the corner... I have never gone out of my way to do that tho... and I am usually kicking myself afterwards when I do...

dangerous

28th December 2007, 09:26

I like red, its brighter than green.

I agree with your statement about keeping on your side, and not just your wheels but also your head when in a corner...

I will admit I have on a couple of corners that I have miss read and when the camber is wrong, I don't know the road, very tigh and I can't twist my head that far round, or I just plain fucked up, blah blah blah... I have accidentally cut the corner... I have never gone out of my way to do that tho... and I am usually kicking myself afterwards when I do...

Yeah , we can only but work on the accidentally corners, hell we all do that... but getting back to the wend night thread the people I mentioned this to were doing it delibatly, and when I asked why they say "cos I can see thers no one comming"

But it goes further than that, what about those behind you? what about the debri/pot hole that you can now only go one way to avoid insted of having two escape routs? what about the obstickle that you DIDNT see?

cutting the corner once becomes twice becomes three times, becomes bad habbit becomes complacent becomes *splat*
This is more what I am trying to avoid, yeah Ive said that already but hell so what :apint:

cruza

28th December 2007, 09:54

Think your on the right track D, maybe a little heavy handed but with the best intentions. So is there anyone else making a bacon and egg pie today or just me?? , think oab started something here, he who bins must bring b&e pie the next wed..........?.

NighthawkNZ

28th December 2007, 10:08

where as they should be focusing on the middle line for sighting and vanishing points

Thats what I do... most corners I have fucked up on are on roads that are unmarked and my eye most likely natuarally finds the next thing for a vanishing point... and thats te right hand side of the road...

I admitt I do try and draw an imaginary centre line and try to use that as my vanishing points... but I have a short attention span and sometimes I forget...

whats the conversation about again :scratch: :stupid:

dangerous

28th December 2007, 10:30

Think your on the right track D, maybe a little heavy handed but with the best intentions.

And that just might be it, I teach how I learnt... with a strap, cain, wooden spoon and being over powering, well you get what Im saying... its todays young people that have a problem with me cos they are brought up so soft ya not allowd to raise ya voice in case thay cry, the GVT say they must be wraped up in cotton wool but... so how else do you get a point through?

Trudes

28th December 2007, 15:15

Or generation Yn (whine)

timg

28th December 2007, 18:05

Keep on doing your thing D. I'll listern :) I've been riding small trailies on and off for 30 years - self tought and probably full of bad habits, but I ride conservatively on the road. Going 10/10ths on the road leaves no lattitude for error. The track is for going hard out on, not the road (would love to try bucket racing, looks like cheap fun! :)) On getting my latest and biggest bike I thought I'd get a bit of training so attended a couple of rider "development" days. Turned out just to be an excuse for a fang around a track :mad: with bugger all "development". Sure I picked up a few tips by talking to folks and learned a bit by trial and error, but good advice seems hard to come by. Tried to get on an advanced riding course but the buggers keep cancelling or changing the dates :mad: Hopefully MYGXF's training day will come off. Cheers.

dangerous

28th December 2007, 18:13

(would love to try bucket racing, looks like cheap fun! :)) remind us when the winterseries starts up in May.. I will find ya a bike to trash... er thrash

SVboy

28th December 2007, 21:49

I voted for the "in person advice" cause D has given me advice inperson. He followed me, overtook me, demonstrated what I was doing wrong, and made me think on how to improve. I am still thinking and I value the time he took. Otherwise I could be cutting right handers still, in ignorance, until the inevitable. I will continue to value an experienced rider, such as Ds input, as I am well aware of my shortcomings. Keep it up D, but dont let this garbage online get to you. At the end of the day, you are entitled to enjoy your riding as much as anybody, and not be attacked for having the balls to offer advice.

_Shrek_

29th December 2007, 11:19

:Oi: just look at the votes

1 you have the pc brigade "spineless jellyfish"

2 most of us know D is right :2 thumbs up

3 the wankers who have shit for brains :spanking:

4 on the right track but toughen up :pokeye:

cya Wed @ BK

just for your info guys Mrs SLR makes the best b & e pie i've ever tasted :baby:

cruza

30th December 2007, 16:46

Well I had a close call on the way back from kaikoura today, quess what it was 3 bikes on or over the white line and leaning my side , first rider nearly binned ,as he straightened/swerved to the left and ran out of tarmac(to much speed, fark all time, others following had a little more time to react thank goodness, Trucks are very unforgiving.

timg

30th December 2007, 18:06

remind us when the winterseries starts up in May.. I will find ya a bike to trash... er thrash

Hey thanks for the offer :niceone: I'd be real keen to attend a couple and find out the in's & out's.

Oh and congratulations to you & Rashika. :woohoo:

timg

30th December 2007, 18:09

:
just for your info guys Mrs SLR makes the best b & e pie i've ever tasted :baby:

So there'll be b & e pie on wed eh? I might just have to make the effort to come up from Ashvegas :whistle:

RiderInBlack

30th December 2007, 18:46

Have found myself thinking more about the cornering lines while I'm riding lately because of this thread. Have been noticing how much on coming traffic are close to the line and how close my head would have been to them if I didn't pull it in more. Which I feel is a dam good thing. Thanks D:Punk:

Trudes

30th December 2007, 19:06

I agree. While out riding yesterday I was more conscious of my position in relation to the center line (and on the back roads, the center of the road), and not focusing on my exit point being on the other side of the road but in the middle of the road, so thanks Dangerous (and others who have mentioned these points in this thread).:clap:

dangerous

30th December 2007, 19:33

Have found myself thinking more about the cornering lines while I'm riding lately because of this thread.

I agree. While out riding yesterday I was more conscious of my position in relation to the center line

Awesome guys... ok heres some more info and once again remember it is IMHO.
A reason that some people may have dificualty with crossing the center line could be the roads camber, they are fighting it so therefore tend to stay on the high rise of the road.. the center.
Now if you have been praticing your lines then you will notice that the camber off to the left (now that you are staying further to the left) will make life difficult in the sense that it wants to drag you further left.

Well nows the time to think about body placement, rather than lean the bike over further to compensate the negitive camber... lean the top 1/2 of the body to the right, maybe if the speed allows slide forward and move the arse off the seat... but for general riding the upper body movment is all that is really needed, should you need to turn faster you now still have some lean angle left so this gives you a little reserve.

I duno give it a try I spose. :first:

scracha

30th December 2007, 19:53

Well..sorry to disagree with about 90% of the posters on this thread but I think you's have all been brainwashed by the crazy "keep left" kiwi law.

That road might appear to be clear and visible, but what about Mavis who was coming out of that driveway on the right, looking the other way as comes naturally when she turns left onto the road, all of which was obscured from you by a small rise in the road imperceptible to you in your 220kph crouch until it was too late.

Let me draw you a little picture.

You're just being ridiculous. I don't overtake on corners. I don't overtake past junctions. Many years of riding and training has taught me to slow down and look for an escape route near "blind" driveways and junctions so I'd certainly not be on the wrong side of the road in your example. As for 220kph....ask other riders...120 is my limit. Why do you assume that just because I cross the centre line (a LOT) I ride at crazy speeds?

I only cut white lines where there are no oncoming traffic and I can see right through the corner and well past it. Blind corners etc are a big no no. In fact, I tend to hug the inside on the blind corners for precisely the reasons you guys are talking about....other vehicles cutting blind corners.

And if catch you I'll issue you with a 35 demerit ticket every time too.

Young guys here read your shit - and may well die following your shit.

Scumdog...I clearly pointed out I wouldn't do it on group rides for the precise reason that inexperienced guys would perhaps copy me and not realise when it's safe to do so. But at the end of the day it's not my fault that the motorcycle training and testing is this country is a complete joke nor that 15 year olds can ride RGV250's. I'm not responsible for any other rider imitating me in the same way as it wouldn't be someone elses fault if I were stupid enough to try and copy their knee down antics. As for going splat...if it's so dangerous then why is it legal and commonly practiced right across Europe? I don't see their road death rates being anywhere near as high as New Zealand.

35 points...that's you doing your job so I couldn't complain but the law in this instance is a complete ass as it's just pandering to the lowest common denominator. Next they'll be making the national speed limit 60ph as that too will reduce the road deaths? Speed kills dontchyaknow.

When I start riding on roads again, I'll keep crossing the center line on certain roads as it's waaaaay safer for me to keep my bike nearly upright than crank it over and blindly follow the way the road curves.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadcraft-Drivers-Handbook-Home-Office/dp/0113408587

Dangerous...when you see bikers crossing the line on blind corners then by all means give them hell. Your attempts to justify overtaking another bike on a right hand bend are just daft. Legal or not (if it is legal here then yet another example of NZ law being an ass compared to other countries), it's a stupid thing to do and anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that.

Last but not least....If you disagree with an infraction then take the issue up with another moderator.

MyGSXF

30th December 2007, 20:02

CORNERING: The thing I learnt the most at the Roadsafe Courses, that has stuck with me like shit to a blanket.. is cornering!! :Punk:

Going round a right hand corner for example... while your head is turned into the corner & your eyes are looking towards the vanishing point & sweeping the road back towards you & then to the vanishing point again.. out of your peripheral vision, keep a gap of about an inch, between the edge of your mirror or handlebar (whichever sticks out the furtherest) & the centre white line.. this will keep your bike further over to the left hand side of your lane, which keeps you in a much safer position on the road.. & thus your body & head are no where near being close to hanging over the centre white line, & in the path of oncoming traffic! !! :eek: & the same for left hand corners.. using the white line on the edge of the road as your guide! :niceone:

It takes a little practice to get used to doing it.. but it makes a hell of a difference!!! :2thumbsup

I used to have a shit of a time with right handers especially :crazy: & right from the very first day of the first course I did.. I tried it going home & it made a HUGE difference!!! :D

Give it a try! :yes:

Jen :rockon:

MyGSXF

30th December 2007, 20:11

at the end of the day it's not my fault that the motorcycle training and testing is this country is a complete joke

I disagree!! <_< Andrew & Lynne at www.Roadsafe.co.nz are very highly trained, internationally & are a wealth of knowledge & skills!! :niceone: They do top quality rider training courses & license testing! :first:

... maybe you should go see them! :whistle:

Rashika

30th December 2007, 20:23

Well..sorry to disagree with about 90% of the posters on this thread but I think you's have all been brainwashed by the crazy "keep left" kiwi law.

we do it cos we know kiwis... cos a few of us are... and we know they dont give a toss about staying on their side of the road, simple really. Self preservation its called.

Why do you assume that just because I cross the centre line (a LOT) I ride at crazy speeds?
cos a lot who do cross the centre line do it cos they are not in control rather than choose to do it

As for going splat...if it's so dangerous then why is it legal and commonly practiced right across Europe? I don't see their road death rates being anywhere near as high as New Zealand.

cos they are probably far more considerate drivers/riders than we are. We are as arrogant as fuck.

35 points...that's you doing your job so I couldn't complain but the law in this instance is a complete ass as it's just pandering to the lowest common denominator. Next they'll be making the national speed limit 60ph as that too will reduce the road deaths? Speed kills dontchyaknow.

Please DONT give em more silly ideas! :shutup: :innocent:

When I start riding on roads again...

huh? why aren't you now? :sunny:

Dangerous...when you see bikers crossing the line on blind corners then by all means give them hell. Your attempts to justify overtaking another bike on a right hand bend are just daft.
why is it daft to pass on a right hander with plenty of visibility? You just told us you will cut a corner in the same instance without a vehicle to pass, why not with one?

The problem is you have 'many years of riding and training' and no matter what you say, others may want to follow you because you have the experience that they do not. And they may mimic you because they look up to you, so I guess we all need to act the best we can when on the road just in case less experienced riders are watching. :yes:
I aint perfect by any means, and I do constantly rebuke myself if I'm doing something wrong... but I have learned a huge amount in the last 2 years simply from riding the Buell and following D... and i know I will never stop learning stuff, and goddamn its FUN! :scooter:

dipshit

30th December 2007, 20:49

Well nows the time to think about body placement, rather than lean the bike over further to compensate the negitive camber... lean the top 1/2 of the body to the right, maybe if the speed allows slide forward and move the arse off the seat... but for general riding the upper body movment is all that is really needed, should you need to turn faster you now still have some lean angle left so this gives you a little reserve.

I would agree with this. After all a person's centre of gravity is about in the middle of their chest. That is the bit that needs to be moved to the inside of the centre line of the bike in a corner. Forget all the nonsense about getting your knee out for cornering... try keeping both knees gripping the tank and move your upper body over into the corner. You will be amazed at how relatively small upper body movements can change the bike's line through a corner, as Dangerous suggests.

dangerous

30th December 2007, 20:59

I would agree with this. After all a person's centre of gravity is about in the middle of their chest. That is the bit that needs to be moved to the inside of the centre line of the bike in a corner. Forget all the nonsense about getting your knee out for cornering... try keeping both knees gripping the tank and move your upper body over into the corner. You will be amazed at how relatively small upper body movements can change the bike's line through a corner, as Dangerous suggests.

Bang on the money man :niceone:

Shadows

30th December 2007, 23:52

Well..sorry to disagree with about 90% of the posters on this thread but I think you's have all been brainwashed by the crazy "keep left" kiwi law.

There's nothing crazy about staying on one's own side of the road.

You're just being ridiculous. I don't overtake on corners. I don't overtake past junctions. Many years of riding and training has taught me to slow down and look for an escape route near "blind" driveways and junctions so I'd certainly not be on the wrong side of the road in your example.

Ridiculous. Only Mrs. S can call me that and get away with it.

What was really ridiculous was how much fun I had drawing the picture. There was no mention of overtaking near intersections (at least, those that have been sighted). Everybody, I hope, knows that is never a good idea as all it takes is for the vehicle being overtaken to decide to turn right, or turning on traffic to come your way, and you're toast. What was being discussed was straightening the road out and using the whole thing as a matter of course. What I was talking about was the unseen intersection, amongst the long grass, the low hedge, the slight dip in the road, and the left turning car on the right. The driveway / road / car you never thought was there and could not see. I've seen it happen. And that was only one possible scenario.

As for 220kph....ask other riders...120 is my limit. Why do you assume that just because I cross the centre line (a LOT) I ride at crazy speeds?

Because you said you could go "A LOT" faster riding like that. 120kph should rarely necessitate using the whole road, and isn't "A LOT" faster than fuck all really. Unless, of course, you're in a 50kph zone - in which case why the hell are you straightening out the road at 120kph?

Hey. Here's another scenario. What about the guy flying up from behind to overtake the dude trundling along at 105km (15k short of his "limit" on this beautifully clear visible road he keeps mentioning) when suddenly the dude closes the door in front of him by cutting across the road? I bet you don't indicate for three seconds every time you cross the white line.

I only cut white lines where there are no oncoming traffic and I can see right through the corner and well past it.

Lazy riding. A very bad habit to get into, especially if on a long ride. A little fatigue, a little bit of a blase attitude after a few too many k's, conditioning of one's self to taking a particular corner angle at a particular speed because for the last two dozen corners one has been able to use the whole road, and then for some reason one can't..... all a recipe for disaster.

Kittyhawk

31st December 2007, 01:09

FFS It's a ride, and no matter what ride, there's always ONE maybe even TWO Cockasses! They just want to prove their dicks are bigger than everyone elses....*where fact is they really cant last longer than 5 mins* Same concept in biking.

If someone crosses your line, cuts you off, or fucks you off, have it out with them....forget road rage, go up and smack them over *ooer did I just type that out loud?"

If an asshole is doin the whole "Im faster than you" ask him how many times he's binned, and then ask why he keeps binning.

At the end of the day RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE fuck everyone else. We are bikers, we know right from wrong, however we will still push limits in some cases. The idiots who do so called lightening speeds, will regret it in life. You cant keep running from fate when it could be around the corner.

When a possum or cat runs out and they hit it they are fucked. If you travel at around the speed limit give or take 10km/hr you have a hell of a better chance surviving and avoiding the situation than at 160km/hr. By then its too late.

Let them go dont worry about them, if they are friends express concerns, if they are just people who you ride with in a group let them go.

Would you rather get there the fastest or the safest?

Oh geez I duno where this post is going, Im off to bed.

_Shrek_

31st December 2007, 07:02

i have had it pointed out to my by one who sits behind me :Oops: that my head & shoulders are often over the centre line & it freaks her out "not good" & all i can put it down to is bad habits :bash: will be changing the way i :ride:
thanks for the tip about the mirrors Jen will try it out

cheers keith

T.W.R

31st December 2007, 08:19

Let them go dont worry about them, if they are friends express concerns, if they are just people who you ride with in a group let them go.

Would you rather get there the fastest or the safest?

:crazy: mmm? the bikers spirit huh? :angry2:

A group ride the safety aspect is the group not just friends within that group :yes:

:slap: Though yesterday I had an amusing sight of following some peanut on a silver R1 or R6 down Dyer's pass Rd :clap: (all done out like they were ready for some hot laps at ruapuna), :oi-grr: stupid thing was though, on every corner it was 'swing the tackle out into the wind' :weird: even once we got into the residential area the rider kept it up :pinch:. It looked FUCKING GHEY!! and who ever it was wasn't anywhere near being quick as their cornering speed/positioning was pathetic :lol:

Kittyhawk

31st December 2007, 08:28

:crazy: mmm? the bikers spirit huh? :angry2:

A group ride the safety aspect is the group not just friends within that group :yes:

LOL! you should do the ATNR ride and it'll demonstrate what I mean.

The litre bikes are gone...they are fast being bigger bikes compared to the 250's. Of course they are going to go faster, and yes the 250 riders just let them go. Im not going to go out there and tell others how to ride, they know it already. Basic principals, ride within your limits, the bikes limits, and if you fuck it up you're going down one way or another. There are some situations beyond the riders control, car parked in a corner etc.

However, if someone is down the riders behind always stop, front of the pack is informed, and the waiting part participates. When the front of the pack is told, they dont leave the stop where they have pulled over for a break until the back of the pack has regrouped.

Once given the ok, the ride proceeds.

I always stop for a biker on the side of the road...weather Im in the cage, on a bike, or with friends out and about, no matter where it is, or what time of the day I always do it. I carry tools in the back of my car, puncture repair kit, water and food.

And yesterday, I met a kber for the first time, and gave him my spine protecter, no charge, as I wanted to see him riding safe out there. I dont need it as Im not riding anymore.

dangerous

31st December 2007, 09:14

There's nothing crazy about staying on one's own side of the road.

What was really ridiculous was how much fun I had drawing the picture. There was no mention of overtaking near intersections

What was being discussed was straightening the road out and using the whole thing as a matter of course. What I was talking about was the unseen intersection, amongst the long grass, the low hedge, the slight dip in the road, and the left turning car on the right. The driveway / road / car you never thought was there and could not see. I've seen it happen. And that was only one possible scenario.

Because you said you could go "A LOT" faster riding like that. 120kph should rarely necessitate using the whole road, and isn't "A LOT" faster than fuck all really. Unless, of course, you're in a 50kph zone - in which case why the hell are you straightening out the road at 120kph?

What about the guy flying up from behind to overtake the dude trundling along at 105km (15k short of his "limit" on this beautifully clear visible road he keeps mentioning) when suddenly the dude closes the door in front of him by cutting across the road? I bet you don't indicate for three seconds every time you cross the white line.

Lazy riding A very bad habit to get into,
Awesome wording, just what I have been saying... only spelt beter, I dont see how its possible to argue with such common sence... yet some do :apint:

PS: the key word is Lazy riding.

scracha

31st December 2007, 11:47

There's nothing crazy about staying on one's own side of the road.

Did I say it was crazy? I'm just trying to point out that at suitable times it's certainly not crazy to cross the center line.

What I was talking about was the unseen intersection, amongst the long grass, the low hedge, the slight dip in the road, and the left turning car on the right. The driveway / road / car you never thought was there and could not see. I've seen it happen. And that was only one possible scenario.

Fine...but I've stated at least 3 times I cut corners on clear bits of road with good visibility. I have two eyes and I can differentiate a clear road from one with junctions, driveways, hidden dips and other vehicles on it. If another highway user can't then perhaps they shouldn't be driving?

Because you said you could go "A LOT" faster riding like that. 120kph should rarely necessitate using the whole road, and isn't "A LOT" faster than fuck all really.

Depends where you ride. As an example. On an advised 50kmph 90 degree corner I can go round it safely sticking to my side of the road at say 70kmph in the dry. If I were a numpty I could get my knee down and go round it at 100kmph. Alternatively, if I can see right through the corner I can quite safely cut it and take it at 100kmph. Please note I said I could go "A LOT" faster....doesn't mean I do and it doesn't mean I travel at warp 9. 100kmph is a "A LOT" faster than 70kmph. Most of the time I don't actually take the corner any quicker than if I were staying on the left hand side of the road, it's just a far safer line that requires less lean. In the wet, there is a trade off between keeping the bike more upright/less braking versus potentially slippery white lines.

Unless, of course, you're in a 50kph zone - in which case why the hell are you straightening out the road at 120kph?

So as well as doing >200Kmph you're now assuming I speed through 50K zones? I suppose because I cross the center line I must also have no WOF, no rego and wheelie past primary schools.

Hey. Here's another scenario. What about the guy flying up from behind to overtake the dude trundling along at 105km (15k short of his "limit" on this beautifully clear visible road he keeps mentioning) when suddenly the dude closes the door in front of him by cutting across the road? I bet you don't indicate for three seconds every time you cross the white line.

Well it'd hardly be a clear and visible road then would it and therefore I wouldn't be crossing the white line. I check what's behind me before I do this...EVERY TIME. I've never had anyone "sneak up" behind me.

Lazy riding.

Is it? It requires quite a bit of concentration and dare I say, a little bit of skill. To me, lazy riding is being sat a couple of meters from the left hand side of the road, not indicating, just relying on mirrors and not looking over shoulder before overtaking and doing daft stuff like overtaking on bends. But I don't really want to get into a bitchfest.

A very bad habit to get into, especially if on a long ride. A little fatigue, a little bit of a blase attitude after a few too many k's, conditioning of one's self to taking a particular corner angle at a particular speed because for the last two dozen corners one has been able to use the whole road, and then for some reason one can't..... all a recipe for disaster.
Now you're just staring to make lots and lots of other assumptions (as well as your earlier ones about me speeding in town and doing over 200K) that simply aren't true. Can't see through the corner...I slow down. Oncoming traffic, I slow down. Vehicles behind me, I slow down. Junctions, intersections, driveways, hidden dips, pot holes, cow pats, etc....I slow down. Any doubt at all, I slow down. Why can't you get it through your head that I (and many other riders) can manage to use the whole width of the road in a very safe manner.

For example, on a clear left hand bend, I move out towards the RHS of the road. Sometimes I'll even cross over to the right hand lane. This gives me a view of what's beyond the bend way earlier than were I to keep left. So as well as letting me keep my bike more upright, I can spot things like U-turning police vehicles etc and take appropriate action earlier.

I wouldn't abuse another rider for sticking to the left hand side of the road but it seems to be OK to accuse me of all sorts of $hit because I sometimes cross the center line when the road is clear.

scracha

31st December 2007, 11:52

I disagree!! <_< Andrew & Lynne at www.Roadsafe.co.nz are very highly trained, internationally & are a wealth of knowledge & skills!! :niceone: They do top quality rider training courses & license testing! :first:

... maybe you should go see them! :whistle:

Maybe I should but my point is that 99% of people on the roads don't do these advanced rider training courses like the one you mentioned. Unfortunately the compulsory driver and rider training is a joke

scracha

31st December 2007, 12:03

huh? why aren't you now? :sunny:

Low speed limits and terrible/aggressive car drivers and the major reasons. In just over one year of riding here witnessing first hand more bikers crashing than 16 years riding in Europe put together. Am saving up the peso's for a KLR650 or something similarly nice to ride at 100kmph. My aggression is being saved for the track where I'm learning loads.

At the end of the day there's some good advice on this thread. On public roads, ride to your abilities. In fact, ride at about 50% of your estimated abilities as you never know what some other dick drivers is gonna do and one day you'll need that extra 50% to get out of trouble. If you're crossing the centre line on blind corners, you're an arse. If you see someone else doing this, give em hell. If you're overtaking without looking over your shoulder, then more than likely you'll hit the other vehicle who's sneaked up into your blind-spot.

MyGSXF

31st December 2007, 12:06

Maybe I should but my point is that 99% of people on the roads don't do these advanced rider training courses like the one you mentioned

That's what a forum like KB is useful for.. EDUCATING riders.. any noobee I see on here that lives near Wellington, I point them in the direction of the Roadsafe website & suggest they give Andrew a call! :yes: Several have done so & thoroughly enjoyed the course, learnt heaps & recommend it to others also! :Punk: Shit, a guy from Dunedin even flew up to Nelson especially to attend a Roadsafe rider training day.. simply because he had seen my posts plastered all over kb about how good the courses are!!! :woohoo:

Word of mouth is a powerful tool! :niceone:

SVboy

31st December 2007, 13:18

I just came back from a ride I used to specifically evaluate where in the lane I was, in regard to right hand cornering. Quite eye-opening. I think this thread[ and D and MYGSXF] have made me much more aware of how I can improve my roding in this regard, and it is certainly an area I will focus on. Fun ride too!

dangerous

31st December 2007, 19:24

Lazy riding. A very bad habit to get into,

Is it? It requires quite a bit of concentration and dare I say, a little bit of skill.
ya what? skill to cross the center line, because ya going to fast to take it leaglly?

For example, on a clear left hand bend, I move out towards the RHS of the road. Sometimes I'll even cross over to the right hand lane. This gives me a view of what's beyond the bend way earlier than were I to keep left. yeah the on comming cage, or me doing the same speed as you but on the correct side of the road... mate thats just plan shitty riding.

I like your argument tho, give me more :chase:

MVnut

31st December 2007, 21:06

And speaking of doing the same speed as a corner-cutter but on the correct side of the road, a little story (true) ...Once upon a time in a land not far at all from the Kopu Hikuai GP, a silly young fellow in a Jappa cage thought he was faster than another far more sensible fellow in a Porsche RS Carrera. The dork quickly turned into a corner-cutter in a futile attempt to appear 'speedy' whilst the RSnut just pootled along ..........until he got sick of the little game ( & thinking the dork was gonna lose it ) so when the corner-cutter next took to the other (safe ???? righthand) side of the road, RSnut stayed on the correct side and drove around the outside and buggered off, having enough time on arrival at Tairua to order fish n chips and listen to a complete song on the stereo. And the moral of this story is .................................................. .................................................. ....... don't mess with someone on the way to the chip shop , oh yeah, and stay on your own side of the road. :2guns:RSnut..........Corner-cutter:weep:

dangerous

31st December 2007, 22:06

hahahaha... good one MV, do you still have a porsche? :clap:

MVnut

31st December 2007, 22:10

In da garage, didn't you see it..........mind you it's under a sheet. 73 RS Carrera lightweight ex-works 470hp beast.

Ghost_Bullet

31st December 2007, 22:13

an old 4 wheeler like that would be sweet... nice :first:

TonyB

31st December 2007, 22:32

6pm today, just South of the Lewis Pass summit- a tightly bunched group of sports bikes was heading South while I was heading North in a grey GT Legacy towing a big arsed green/grey trailer that is wider than the car. The last rider in the group was on my side of the road on a bend that was probably blind (can't remember for sure)- he managed to get his wheels on the line, but I bet he was damn close to spreading himself all over my VERY solid trailer and therefore getting blood and guts all over the two race bikes I was towing.
This would have been most inconvinient.
Was it anyone on here?

Rashika

31st December 2007, 22:32

In da garage, didn't you see it..........mind you it's under a sheet. 73 RS Carrera lightweight ex-works 470hp beast.

ha he missed it! :bash: doh Dangerous, your nose must not be working right at the moment ;)

dangerous

31st December 2007, 22:39

In da garage, didn't you see it..........mind you it's under a sheet. 73 RS Carrera lightweight ex-works 470hp beast.

Ill be back tomorow, in a 928... ill trade a drive with ya :first:

scracha

1st January 2008, 10:03

ya what?
I like your argument tho, give me more :chase:

What's the point. You'll NEVER convince me that crossing the centre line is shitty riding and I'll NEVER convince you that overtaking on corners is also shitty riding :third:

Max Preload

1st January 2008, 10:26

Though yesterday I had an amusing sight of following some peanut on a silver R1 or R6 down Dyer's pass Rd :clap: (all done out like they were ready for some hot laps at ruapuna), :oi-grr: stupid thing was though, on every corner it was 'swing the tackle out into the wind' :weird: even once we got into the residential area the rider kept it up :pinch:. It looked FUCKING GHEY!! and who ever it was wasn't anywhere near being quick as their cornering speed/positioning was pathetic :lol:

I passed a pair of identical (same bikes, same leathers) power rangers on West Coast/Woodcocks Road (Kaipara Flat) a few months back doing exactly that - crawling along hanging their ass cheeks off the seat thinking they were Rossi. The scary thing was I'd followed them for about 1km and when I passed the trailing one, he nearly crapped his leathers because he was completely unaware of my presence. The second one was obviously unaware too, because as I went to pass him about 500m later he crossed the centreline to "apex the bend" (all whilst the bike remained vertical). He must have thought he was blazing along so fast nobody would overtake him. God there are some real wannabe wankers out there.

So for fucks sake people - cross the centreline when there's sufficient vision by all means, but check that you're not being overtaken first.

Shadows

1st January 2008, 10:40

Did I say it was crazy?

Yes, you did. Something about being brainwashed by "crazy" keep left rules if I remember rightly.

Fine...but I've stated at least 3 times I cut corners on clear bits of road with good visibility. I have two eyes and I can differentiate a clear road from one with junctions, driveways, hidden dips and other vehicles on it. If another highway user can't then perhaps they shouldn't be driving?

OK, still, it's easy for one to become complacent when it becomes a habit.

Depends where you ride. As an example. On an advised 50kmph 90 degree corner I can go round it safely sticking to my side of the road at say 70kmph in the dry. If I were a numpty I could get my knee down and go round it at 100kmph. Alternatively, if I can see right through the corner I can quite safely cut it and take it at 100kmph. Please note I said I could go "A LOT" faster....doesn't mean I do and it doesn't mean I travel at warp 9. 100kmph is a "A LOT" faster than 70kmph. Most of the time I don't actually take the corner any quicker than if I were staying on the left hand side of the road, it's just a far safer line that requires less lean. In the wet, there is a trade off between keeping the bike more upright/less braking versus potentially slippery white lines.

I regularly exceed the signposted advisory speed on bends I can see through by "A LOT" as well, on roads I'm also familiar with, all the time while staying on my own side of the road. On an HD too, so for you, on what is almost definately a bike with a lot more available lean angle, and with your years of training and experience, it should be a piece of piss for you to do the same.

So as well as doing >200Kmph you're now assuming I speed through 50K zones? I suppose because I cross the center line I must also have no WOF, no rego and wheelie past primary schools.

Not really. But when one speaks of going "A LOT faster" in one sentence and then states 120k is his maximum speed, 2 + 2 can equal 5. I was simply trying to emphasise a point.

Is it? It requires quite a bit of concentration and dare I say, a little bit of skill. To me, lazy riding is being sat a couple of meters from the left hand side of the road, not indicating, just relying on mirrors and not looking over shoulder before overtaking and doing daft stuff like overtaking on bends. But I don't really want to get into a bitchfest.

Me neither. And yes, keeping too far left comes with its own set of hazards. Remember though that a lot of new riders read this stuff, and cutting corners is not a good habit for somebody to get into when learning to ride is a seriously life threatening enough pastime as it is.

Now you're just staring to make lots and lots of other assumptions (as well as your earlier ones about me speeding in town and doing over 200K) that simply aren't true.
I wouldn't abuse another rider for sticking to the left hand side of the road but it seems to be OK to accuse me of all sorts of $hit because I sometimes cross the center line when the road is clear.

Baby killer.

Seriously though, you asked for somebody to explain why keeping left was safer than cutting corners with regularity. I did so but you refuse to accept the argument no matter how it is presented so really this is a futile discussion.

I'll keep on enjoying my corners, good luck with your square tyres.

Ixion

1st January 2008, 10:53

I guess the thing with arguing that crossing the centre line is a legitmate thing is, one would then have to accept the same argument from Harry Huriup in his SUV.After all, if you can do it when it suits you, why should Harry not do it when it suits him?

Of course, Harry would only cross to the wrong side of the road when it was clear to do so. No cars or trucks coming. That he could see.

M'self, though I occasionally straighten out a series of corners, and sometimes wander over the line through laziness, I'd rather that Harry stayed on his side of the road. If that means accepting that I ought not to cross the line either (and the cops enforcing that rule) then so be it.

We've all done it , it's not a capital sin, but I wouldn't care to advocate it as safe riding.

Rashika

1st January 2008, 10:58

Of course, Harry would only cross to the wrong side of the road when it was clear to do so. No cars or trucks coming. That he could see.

funny thing about that last comment... "that he could see" and scratcha has said all along, "clear road, that he could see"

we only have eyes in the front, usually a little restricted by our visors and helmets and sometimes by the fkn great big bug that just splattered itself over the visor, so what we can see can at times be pretty restricted, esp when even compared to car drivers.

So why not play it safe and stay on your side of the lane, except when overtaking... cos there just may be that thing you missed seeing that is the last thing you ever see.

ah well... back to the battle :msn-wink:

Ixion

1st January 2008, 11:01

Yes. My tongue was in my cheek. You may also notice the class of vehicle that Harry does not bother looking for.

scumdog

1st January 2008, 11:30

Yes, you did. Something about being brainwashed by "crazy" keep left rules if I remember rightly.

OK, still, it's easy for one to become complacent when it becomes a habit.

Yup.

See post #65.

Jantar

1st January 2008, 11:59

... In just over one year of riding here witnessing first hand more bikers crashing than 16 years riding in Europe put together. ....
I would seriously question the ability of the riders you are with. So, why not simply ride at your own pace and in your own manner, and let the stupid riders do their own thing?

AllanB

1st January 2008, 11:59

Good video of someone riding within and over the white lines early in this thread (have not worked out how to paste it here).

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=64070

Notice that when the wheels are well within his/her late the bike and top of rider are often over the centre-line.

AllanB

1st January 2008, 12:00

Also this may help explain all.....

T.W.R

1st January 2008, 12:58

This is a good wee video I posted 18mths ago of what could or couldn't happen :msn-wink: visualise the scenario if the rider was hugging the center line or over it :puke:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37504&d=1153315938

toycollector10

1st January 2008, 14:00

Over 100km a week up there on the tracks. From which I see all you Canterbury guys going up and down Dyers Pass Road cutting corners and hanging yourselves out over the white line on right handers. Speeding up through the 50kph zone at 80-90kph with your knees hanging out completely oblivious to all the hidden driveway exits.

What really impressed me was the guy yesterday on the black Buell who was taking his time but his lines were beautiful, less haste, but controlled speed and anticipation etc.

What makes me angry is the way people drive when they think they have the whole road to themselves. I tell my son there are two rules. Rule one is keep left and rule two is don't try to keep up with your mates!

dangerous

1st January 2008, 14:58

What's the point. You'll NEVER convince me that crossing the centre line is shitty riding and I'll NEVER convince you that overtaking on corners is also shitty riding :third:

That... was my point, glad to see we can disagree and not get all heat up about it, nice debating with ya.. any time.:cool:

Swoop

1st January 2008, 16:17

Well..sorry to disagree with about 90% of the posters on this thread but I think you's have all been brainwashed by the crazy "keep left" kiwi law.
If the 4-wheeled variety of transportation would only re-learn this rule.
Multi lane roads. Why do "kiwi drivers" like to use the right hand lane?
Why are trucks insisting on sitting in the middle lane?

The left hand lane remains empty, but the right hand lane is in use much more of the time. Lots of reason not to stray, when in the vicinity of the centre line.

Good thread, Dangerous!

Kickaha

1st January 2008, 17:44

Why do "kiwi drivers" like to use the right hand lane?

Because they are ignorant fucks who should be dragged from their vehicles,gutshot and fed to the dogs

dangerous

1st January 2008, 18:20

Why do "kiwi drivers" like to use the right hand lane?

Because they are ignorant fucks who should be dragged from their vehicles,gutshot and fed to the dogs

Actually if you are meaning on the motorways then... cos its perfectly legal and theres nothing saying they shouldnt be, its there right... You CAN pass on the left.

So if some ones in ya way change lane, continue on... easy peasy

*NB: unless in/on a passing lane were its spesified to keep left

Kickaha

1st January 2008, 18:38

Actually if you are meaning on the motorways then... cos its perfectly legal and theres nothing saying they shouldnt be

It might be legal but it's common courtesy to keep left

its there right... You CAN pass on the left.

Not when two of the ignorant fucks are traveling side by side you can't, which seems to happen on a reasonably regular basis

Rashika

1st January 2008, 18:40

Not when two of the ignorant fucks are traveling side by side you can't, which seems to happen on a reasonably regular basis

awwwwww... is that northern motorway getting to you Kickaha? :msn-wink:

Hitcher

1st January 2008, 19:42

Because they are ignorant fucks who should be dragged from their vehicles, gutshot and fed to the dogs

Yes, and infract their arses for good measure!

Grahameeboy

1st January 2008, 19:52

Actually if you are meaning on the motorways then... cos its perfectly legal and theres nothing saying they shouldnt be, its there right... You CAN pass on the left.

So if some ones in ya way change lane, continue on... easy peasy

*NB: unless in/on a passing lane were its spesified to keep left

Are you sure that passing on the left is legal??

sAsLEX

1st January 2008, 19:55

The left hand lane remains empty, but the right hand lane is in use much more of the time. Lots of reason not to stray, when in the vicinity of the centre line.

Yeah it sucks, stupid kiwi drivers

Because they are ignorant fucks who should be dragged from their vehicles,gutshot and fed to the dogs

agreed

Actually if you are meaning on the motorways then... cos its perfectly legal and theres nothing saying they shouldnt be, its there right... You CAN pass on the left.

So if some ones in ya way change lane, continue on... easy peasy

But it increase congestion and clogs up the motorways.

If slower people and people travelling the same speed as the inside lanes moved there MWs flow much nicer, in the UK it was common for people at 60 and 100 MPH to easily and safely share the same road.

dangerous

1st January 2008, 20:07

Are you sure that passing on the left is legal??
On duel carrigeway... YES

But it increase congestion and clogs up the motorways.
I dont make the road code up man!

Max Preload

1st January 2008, 20:20

Are you sure that passing on the left is legal??

Yes. As below, and when the vehicle in front of you has indicated a right turn.

On duel carrigeway... YES

I challenge you to a duel! :girlfight:

Swoop

1st January 2008, 21:00

It might be legal but it's common courtesy to keep left
Damn right!!!
Something the average kiwi lacks, courtesy on the road.

dangerous

1st January 2008, 21:03

Damn right!!!
Something the average kiwi lacks, courtesy on the road.

Welcome to New Zealand :apint:

_Shrek_

1st January 2008, 22:49

Damn right!!!
Something the average kiwi lacks, courtesy on the road.

:calm: :2guns: & your problem is :beer:

Grahameeboy

2nd January 2008, 06:05

On duel carrigeway... YES

I dont make the road code up man!

But not Motorways? The Road Code mentions zilch about this.

Grahameeboy

2nd January 2008, 06:06

Yes. As below, and when the vehicle in front of you has indicated a right turn.

I challenge you to a duel! :girlfight:

Right turning vehicle is obvious one....see above.

James Deuce

2nd January 2008, 06:11

But not Motorways? The Road Code mentions zilch about this.
It's legal to pass on the left on a motorway, because each lane on a motorway is treated as a highway in its own right. This is why lane splitting is legal if the overtake is conducted in the same lane you started in.

I prefer the UK's approach but there aren't enough HP patrols to dish out the 250,000 tickets or so a day required to modify this particular behaviour.

sAsLEX

2nd January 2008, 06:17

I prefer the UK's approach but there aren't enough HP patrols to dish out the 250,000 tickets or so a day required to modify this particular behaviour.

Well the correct approach would be driver training and maybe an add campaign........ but ticket the fuck out of everyone!

Grahameeboy

2nd January 2008, 08:38

It's legal to pass on the left on a motorway, because each lane on a motorway is treated as a highway in its own right. This is why lane splitting is legal if the overtake is conducted in the same lane you started in.

I prefer the UK's approach but there aren't enough HP patrols to dish out the 250,000 tickets or so a day required to modify this particular behaviour.

But where does it say that? I have not been able to find anything on this.

Ixion

2nd January 2008, 08:54

There is nothing special about a motorway. It is just a multilane road. here is the law:

2.8Passing on left

(1)A driver must not pass or attempt to pass on the left of another vehicle moving in the same direction except in accordance with this clause.
(2)In any case in which the movement referred to subclause (1) may be made,—
.........(a)the 2 vehicles must be in different lanes; or
.........(b)the overtaken vehicle must be stationary or its driver must have given or be giving the prescribed signal of that driver's intention to turn right; or
.........(c)if the overtaken vehicle is a light rail vehicle moving in the same direction, the light rail vehicle must not be—
(i)signalling an intention to turn left or to stop; or
(ii)stationary for the purposes of allowing passengers to alight or board.
(3)If the roadway is marked in lanes, the driver may make the movement referred in subclause (1) only if the driver's vehicle does not encroach on a lane that is unavailable to a driver.

This is not Pomgolia. Our rules are different. They are better. Adapt.

EZAS

2nd January 2008, 09:16

I found this in the road code, (Nothing about lane splitting on the left)
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/passing.html

there are two or more lanes on your side of the centre line and you are able to pass safely by using the left-hand lane

EZAS

2nd January 2008, 09:22

I have a question.

On a three laned road like this
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/gfx/passing-on-three-lane.jpg
Can you overtake a car that is overtaking? ie can you use the further most lane to the right to overtake.

Senario, car in the left is going 50k in the 100, a car goes to overtake at 70k, so can I open the bike up and over take at 100k in the far right hand lane?

Ixion

2nd January 2008, 09:41

Nope. Illegal

2.3Use of lanes
(1)A driver, when driving, must not use—

(a)a lane that has been declared unavailable by an overhead traffic signal showing a red diagonal cross; or

(b)on a two-way roadway marked in 2 or more lanes, a lane on the right side of the centre line unless the driver is passing another vehicle travelling in the same direction; or

(c)on a two-way roadway marked in 3 lanes,—
(i)the lane on the right side of the roadway; or
(ii)the centre lane unless the driver is turning right into another roadway or a vehicle entrance or is passing another vehicle travelling in the same direction; or

(d)a lane to the driver's right of a no-passing line; or

(e)the area on the right side of a row of traffic cones or other delineators placed so that they separate traffic travelling in opposite directions; or

(f)a special vehicle lane reserved for a specific class or classes of vehicle (unless driving a vehicle of the class or one of the classes for which the lane is reserved).

Oddly, there seems no prohibition about doing the same thing on a four laned road.

Kendog

2nd January 2008, 09:47

so can I open the bike up and over take at 100k

That made me smile, open the 9 up to 100k :p

I have been thinking about the center line a bit since the last few group rides I have been on. I know I have been guilty of riding very near the line on right handers, but it was not till I saw it happening to a bike in front of me that I realised just how dangerous this habit is. From my experience I see two reasons for this:
1. I naturally ride on the right of my lane (about the right wheel line of a cage). So when a right hander comes along I tended to ride around the center line for almost the entire conner.
2. When I look for the exit on right handers, I can see across the other side of the road, so I am now looking through the wrong side of the road and the bike heads where you are looking i.e to the center line.

So I have been trying the following to adjust for the above:
1. When approaching a right hander move to the left of the lane, this gives more visibility round the corner and more room to make the turn.
2. Treat the center line as the vanishing point of the corner, while it is great I can see all the way to the exit this should be used to check the road surface, oncoming traffic etc. By focusing on my lane only I can make sure the line my bike takes is always well withing the center line.