Cemetary circuit 2007: Farce

[White trash]

It's almost 24 hours on and I still can't see how this can be allowed to happen in the "fair" sport of New Zealand Road racing so I'll throw a scenario at the masses and see if someone can't explain it for me. I'll try and lay it out as factually and unemotionly as I can for ya.

At sign on and scrutineering, every rider got a little event pack with a program, a race schedule and rule pamphlet, a heap of advertising crap and a bag of rashuns. The riders schedule and rule sheet states under Practice, it is just that, practice. Please take this session to learn the track and guage the conditions, these lap times will NOT count towards you qualifying time.

During the riders briefing, we were all told the same and told, "If you choose not to ride in qualifying, you will start from the back of the grid, no exceptions"

Qualifying rolls around and it's soaking wet. By no means dangerous but a little slippery. All the privateer bikes were out there giving it their best shot, sliding around and riding hard to be as far up the grid as possible. Qualifying times come back and we'd all done well. Jason Hulme had a blinder, as did Carey Briar qualifying 3rd. I finished 7th right between David Lees and Neil Martin on the second row. Jay did well as did Glen Wiliams. We were all pretty happy as if you start from the front two rows here, you've got a good shot not getting trapped in the first turn off the start.

We all arrive at the dummy grid to take our positions, I'm told you're 12th on the grid. I said, "No, you're thinking of Stroud, I'm 7th and far better looking" Lady says, "No, we've amalgamated your first practice and qualifying times. You're 12th."

The three Bernard team Yamahas, NONE OF WHOM RODE IN QUALIFYING are accross the center of the second row ahead of us and a black K6 750 with a number one plate has travelled from the third row to the front row, bumping most of the privateers back at least one row, in some cases two.

After race one a group of us descended on race HQ to make our opinions heard. After lengthy discussions we were told that "We've made our descision, that's how it stands, we're not changing it and what could we do anyway" It was suggested that the riders who had gained so much through the impromtu rule change perhaps loose the results to that race or start from the back of the following race but we were told "No, those riders earned those positions, we can't take it away from them now. It's no use complaining as our descision is final"

We asked who the riders rep was as I'm sure it wasn't mentioned in the briefing and no one could tell us. An hour later it was announced over the PA that it was Darryl Dowman.

I'm wondering how coincidental it is that the major event sponsor is also the main sponsor for the team that the rules were changed to suit?

Alot of rider and sponsors threw a heap of money into getting to this event, put up with the changing weather, rode and made descisions is in a calculating manner and their efforts were for naught. They also miss out on a good chunk of prize money that was potentially theirs.

So, please discuss, tell me I'm wrong to feel cheated and give me a good reason.

On another note, a huge congratulations to Craig Shirriffs. There was a bit of talk he'd find it tough on the thousand 'round there and once again, he stamped his dominance on the field. The man's a legend. Hat's off to you buddy.

[boomer]

I'd get ya team management onto it mate.. let you focus on what you do best and let them go kick ass for ya. Money has and will always talk bro.

best you can do is raise it through the right procedures. If you really wanna give it some publicity .. write into the magazines etc ;)

I've just had a look at the times and you had a good day by the looks of it Jimmie.. Congratulations mate!

[boomer]

ps.. where did you fall of, was it a good 'en, who you take out and what damage was there??? :p

Merry Christmas mate

[White trash]

ps.. where did you fall of, was it a good 'en, who you take out and what damage was there??? :p

Merry Christmas mate
Didn't. Yup. No one and none.

Same to you buddy.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

sounds a bit like you lot got ripped of if this happens at any other meet you could always go on strike in the second race line up across the track .to many big teams get the easy road hell why even have meets if the winners are desided before hand sponsers with the deepest pocket wins

[ynot slow]

Fark,you follow the rules as written then get shat on,shades of americas cup,what would happen if those whom were asked to change grid positions said no not moving.

[White trash]

If I had of been more onto it, I woulda tried to organise a riders "strike" on the grid. Have 15 riders in the middle of the grid shut their bikes down and raise their hands before the start, that would have fucked their precious tv coverage.

[boomer]

Fark,you follow the rules as written then get shat on,shades of americas cup,what would happen if those whom were asked to change grid positions said no not moving.

Did Sherriffs go anywhere near your catering Tent Jimmy..?? You could always complain of food poisoning?!

[spudchucka]

That is an absolute crock of shit!

[Colapop]

One set of rules for all. Posted 2 weeks before the vent - no exceptions. By moving the goal posts all that happens is that the NZ motorcycle racing organisation looks unprofessional. Wanganui will be around longer than teams from the States or other care to be. Yes, money and sponsors are very important for the event but if they want the competition that they claim then it's better for their riders to start from where they have legitimately qualified. I'm sure the riders would far rather be judged on their merit than be given their standing, otherwise what's the point of them racing?

Ya did good Jimmy.

[Tonka]

Assuming that all the facts are on the table it sounds like to me you (and the others) got ripped WT.

When rules are set BUT dont apply for some then what kind of precedent is being set here? It would be like Casey Stoner not going out during qualifying because its raining for a MotoGP but then handed pole position because he is the current number one!! Imagine what that would do for the sport?

Its great to have sponsors and without them most events would not take place but to be given preferential treatment because your team is backed by the main sponsor is just wrong.

I agree with Boomer, leave it with your manager or riders representative to argue the case and I do believe that this should be taken to the next level with the NZ motorcycle racing authorities. Incidents like this should never happen.

Good luck WT and ride hard mate.

[BarBender]

I've read your post a couple of times Jimmie and I cant for the life of think of a justifiable reason to support the decision they made.
The Sponser thing?....Used to that in my sport. It sucks but money talks. Hard work walks...

Agree with Boomer...put your headspace back into riding. Show them on the track. You're good for it.

[smoky]

Use to be the same thing in the car events when I was younger - those with sponsors and money got all the advantages.

I remember a Ginger Maloy, who was looked on as a god on a motorbike when he turned up at any event - things were changed to his advantage all the time, the rest of us could go take a hike.

It's never the best rider/driver who makes it to the top, rather the best rider with the most support that get's there.

:Pokey:

Seems things haven't changed at all

[k14]

Yep, sucks big time, but not surprising at all. Just the same old by the normal MNZ officials. Ask Jay about his "jump" start at puke last year or numerous other incidents at last year's nationals series. There is no use of precedence, its all just spur of the moment decisions that are normally biased and don't take into account the rules.

You need to take this further. It is total BS!! But for some reason doesn't really surprise me at all. Just another example of Wanganui going to the dogs.

[Paul in NZ]

For the life of me I just can't figure out why motorcycle racing is not better supported by the public....

Sounds pretty rough WT - expected though and I'll bet you will suffer for making it public as well...

[White trash]

For the life of me I just can't figure out why motorcycle racing is not better supported by the public....

Sounds pretty rough WT - expected though and I'll bet you will suffer for making it public as well...
Probably mate. To be honest, I don't give a shit.

The politics in NZ racing are disgracefull. Privateers are simply not allowed to compete on even footing with the "factory" riders. Don't get me wrong, those guys have sure earned their rides through years of hard work and dedication, they deserve the support. But I can't help thinking the sport would be far better off if there was a more level playing field.

[Nasty]

I would put in a formal complaint about this to MNZ ... 1. not telling who the rider rep was .... 2. changing the rules. These are things which those running the event should be sanctioned on as it is unacceptable.

[jazbug5]

What a wunch of bankers.

Surely this is fraud? Not that shady stuff is unexpected, unfortunately- but FFS at least have the good taste not to be so blatant about it!

Sorry that you have been left with a sour taste after all of your and other people's efforts, Jimmy. Not on at all.

[White trash]

It should be said that we were given a reason for this spur of the moment rule change. Apparently it was based on safety.

So it's fine for the rest of us to be stuck in the middle of forty bikes fighting for position in a very narrow turn one but not American riders?

[GIXser]

as discussed Jimmy, this definately needs to go further, ie a formal protest,possibly a consensus from other riders for next years event if something like this would happen again, there will be a strike, !(would be good to get some commonality regarding this for Paeroa in case a similar incident happens there (that wouldnt surprise me)
anyways start the process....

[Rashika]

complain, complain, complain. Get all the riders together and write a letter showing your unhappiness with the situation.
Nothing may happen, but then again something might.

Nelson st race (this past year in Jan) was a disaster for the bucket racers for a number of reasons, some concerning safety but all were due to crap organisation. We wrote a letter in Jan, got a response in November (only cos we chased em up in Oct at Greymouth).
End result, they have 5 entries in the class for jan next year, rather than the 15 or more last year. Everyone decided they didtn't want the same crap and as the letter was ignored, most unfortunately made other plans.
I personally would like to race at nelson again, but until they prove themselves to the racers, I guess most of us wont be going back.
Yes we know they may just drop the class but thats life. They want all motards there anyway, so I guess let em. Personally, tho I like motards, a whole day of em is kinda boring. And until they do a Greymouth offroad bit in a st circuit, motards are just another roadbike, and not that interesting to watch.

So yes, complain... thats all you can do now, and personally I think it sucks that you guys put so much effort into getting things sussed without the big money, only to have someone with it walk to the front.

[Tonka]

....but I can't help thinking the sport would be far better off if there was a more level playing field.


I just remembered something...cant have the amateurs (privateers) outdoing the pro's!

[jazbug5]

It should be said that we were given a reason for this spur of the moment rule change. Apparently it was based on safety.

So it's fine for the rest of us to be stuck in the middle of forty bikes fighting for position in a very narrow turn one but not American riders?

Ha!

I recently came up with the 'Health And Safety Theory' when explaining some similar bollocks to my 14 year old neice. Essentially, when Officialdom wishes to worm its way out of, or explain away any decision (no matter how patently ludicrous it is) all that is needed is the simple repetition of the all-conquering mantra: 'Health And Safety'.
It has now become a family catch phrase.

E.g. "It's your turn to do the washing up."
"Health and Safety."
etc.

Tossers.

[Nasty]

Absolute bollucks .... how is it safe for you to go out and not other riders ... its pathetic laziness not wanting to change the tires ... or just thinking they are better than others ... I can't see any safety aspect to letting some go out and not notifying the rule change before the qualifying session real bad karma.

[White trash]

I just remembered something...cant have the amateurs (privateers) outdoing the pro's!
It's not so much that we'd outdo the "pros", those guys were faster on a dry track, no doubt about it. Craig for example (and he qualifyed just like the rest of us) could win off the back on a BMX I reckon. He's just so quick there. I just feel that you should start from where you qualify, and have to fight your way through, just like everyone else.

It's like, had I not ridden the session, then gone to the organiser and said "Hey, I don't like the rain so I didn't ride but I'm actually semi quick. Can I start from the second row please?" Get laughed outta the place.

[James Deuce]

Bloody typical. Nothing's changed since the early '90s.

The race rules must have been written by Helen Clark and enforced by Trevor Mallard.

[NUTBAR]

That is an absolute crock of shit!

different point of view?

[James Deuce]

different point of view?

You're going to need to explain that, or are you just trying to start a nice flame war?

[Quasievil]

Mate thats not On, by the organisers breaking their own rules makes a complete asrse of themselves and the event itself, you need to write a formal complaint to MNZ and get it soughted otherwise it will happen again and again.
Factory riders should not get preferred treatment over any one else either, especially on the grid, thats again makes a complete arse of the race lineup

[White trash]

Even if they hada' said at the briefing, "Hey, the weather's changable, we're gonna combine your times" so at least we could have all made the most of a partially dry first practice. Changing the rules AFTER the fact with NO CONSULTATION is simple not right in my mind.

[onearmedbandit]

Sounds fucking ridiculous to me Jimmy. You, and others, were hard done by.

[White trash]

I see who's browsing this thread and I'd like to hear an unbiased opinion from your good self Mr Taylor:D

[Nasty]

Even if they hada' said at the briefing, "Hey, the weather's changable, we're gonna combine your times" so at least we could have all made the most of a partially dry first practice.


In your complaint don't mention this .... it just gives everyone an out ... the fact is that they did something they shouldn't have ... without consultation with the riders ... its really simple put that way.

[jimbo600]

Good to see you're still fired up about it white man. I tell ya it really pissed me off hearing about that. Guys like yourself put proportionally alot more resource into racing than the 'pros'. There wouldn't be Wanganui if it wasn't for you lot. To have your hoop reamed out in such a way is taking the piss.

Maybe you should buy a motard mate, they seem to like those there these days.

[Tonka]

It's not so much that we'd outdo the "pros", those guys were faster on a dry track, no doubt about it. Craig for example (and he qualifyed just like the rest of us) could win off the back on a BMX I reckon. He's just so quick there. I just feel that you should start from where you qualify, and have to fight your way through, just like everyone else.

It's like, had I not ridden the session, then gone to the organiser and said "Hey, I don't like the rain so I didn't ride but I'm actually semi quick. Can I start from the second row please?" Get laughed outta the place.

Definitely feel ya on this WT and I will be the first to back you. You nailed it home when you said "you should start from where you qualify".

I was just taking the piss out of the organisers who conveniently turned a blind eye come race time.

[johnsv650]

hi,
did you enjoy your riding firstly ?
be careful who you complian to ,
mnz powers are huge,
nationals new rule ,
disclaimer rule 10
i accept that stripping and reassembly for techinical checks are at my cost.........5 rounds of that and would you let them reassemble your race motor.......on a race day.........
rule book, says a techincal protest can be done only by competitor after the deposit has been paid , costs to be born by losing party.
get someone not doing the national to say your words....

[Teambwr47]

Not been there and don't plan to be honest when i get to racing here but if what you've written at the head of this thread is how it took place then its surely, as many have said, time for a formal protest.

As its been written here many times how badly organised the meeting is and how every year there's some 'issue' that pisses everyone off make your best protest and don't enter again. If the issue this year was as big as it seems with the riders then get them all together and boycott the meeting in advance by letter, protest and press.

Racing survives on entries and if they have significantly less then the economics of running a meeting will just not stack up.

I have to say any official here quoting 'health and safety' as a reason for the rule change just makes me laugh because what i've seen so far of the way racing and track events are run here in New Zealand is anything but safety conscious.

[White trash]

Hi John.

Yeah mate, I loved the racing. It's to date the best fun I've had on the bike, unfortunately not reflected in my results.

I see your point regarding being a squeaky wheel, but my feeling is that the people who pay the money to come and watch the racing should be aware that this paticular event was effectively rigged. I had a huge ammount of support on the day from KBers and fellow competitors. agood mate even took time away from his family, the day after Christmas, on his birthday to fly to Wanganui to help out in the pits. A team of five good bastards spent the whole day Christmas eve rebuilding my bike after a big off at Puke on Sunday. They deserve to know why the guy they supported selflessly was bumped five positions on the grid. And that's just me. The really good bugers from Team Hard On Racing (www.hardonracing.co.nz) aren't as fortunate to have a big corporate sponsor, travelled all that way with a family and supporters to be shafted just as badly despite some fantastic riding. Glen Williams, qualifyed on the front bloody row in Formula Wanganui on an SV650 for Christs sake, the fans should know he acheived that fair and square. Only to be shunted back to the third row.

People really need to know that the racing they pay their twenty bucks to watch, is rigged.

[Shaun]

Again, Wanganui has proven another fact to the world. THEY SUCK:laugh:

[roogazza]

Welcome to road racing in NZ No.20 ! yes it was not on . Every now and then this stuff pops up , I was involved in one like that in 1978 !!!
Bring back Barbara I say !!!! Apart from motards, entries have dropped off, hopefully someone will wake up and restore this historical meet.
As promised I didn't attend.

ps. would have liked to have seen a result like, started from 12th , hit the front in two laps and cleared off ! Maybe next time ? Gaz.

[svs]

with ya jimmy. i got bumped from 17th to 29th. Spent the rest of the day pootling round at the back of the grid. whilst i may not have any big sponsors it would have made their day if i'd got the bike in media into the first corner in front of the big teams.

was still a fun day tho.

[riffer]

I didn't get to see you this year Jimmy but looking at the times at mylaps, it looks like you did pretty damn good anyway. Eighth in that field at the first time at Wanganui is excellent stuff. And you're only half a second off Shiriff's times too...

At the end of the day if you're running in someone else's competition you're going to get shafted - unfairly sometimes. Sad fact of life. The best way to overcome this is to do so well despite the shafting that everyone watching can see the bias.

Congratulations on your effort yesterday. :banana:

[Edbear]

Somehow just doesn't seem fair to me...:nono:

(Or am I stating the obvious here...?:mellow:)

[Taz]

Just one of the reasons I will not pay to go and watch motorsport in NZ. MNZ and race organizers all have their own agenda's and are not there to help your average privateer. I was into road racing, sidecars and offroad racing in the past and gave it up due to this sort of stuff. Just ride for fun now, so much better.

[vifferman]

Not that it matters WTF I think, but it does seem very unfair. What's the point of rules, if they just make them up as they go along, or ditch them in order to suck up to the "elite" few, at the expense of everyone else?
I really HATE injustice, and this seems very unjust to me.

[cowpoos]

It's almost 24 hours on and I still can't see how this can be allowed to happen in the "fair" sport of New Zealand Road racing so I'll throw a scenario at the masses and see if someone can't explain it for me. I'll try and lay it out as factually and unemotionly as I can for ya.

At sign on and scrutineering, every rider got a little event pack with a program, a race schedule and rule pamphlet, a heap of advertising crap and a bag of rashuns. The riders schedule and rule sheet states under Practice, it is just that, practice. Please take this session to learn the track and guage the conditions, these lap times will NOT count towards you qualifying time.

During the riders briefing, we were all told the same and told, "If you choose not to ride in qualifying, you will start from the back of the grid, no exceptions"

Qualifying rolls around and it's soaking wet. By no means dangerous but a little slippery. All the privateer bikes were out there giving it their best shot, sliding around and riding hard to be as far up the grid as possible. Qualifying times come back and we'd all done well. Jason Hulme had a blinder, as did Carey Briar qualifying 3rd. I finished 7th right between David Lees and Neil Martin on the second row. Jay did well as did Glen Wiliams. We were all pretty happy as if you start from the front two rows here, you've got a good shot not getting trapped in the first turn off the start.

We all arrive at the dummy grid to take our positions, I'm told you're 12th on the grid. I said, "No, you're thinking of Stroud, I'm 7th and far better looking" Lady says, "No, we've amalgamated your first practice and qualifying times. You're 12th."

The three Bernard team Yamahas, NONE OF WHOM RODE IN QUALIFYING are accross the center of the second row ahead of us and a black K6 750 with a number one plate has travelled from the third row to the front row, bumping most of the privateers back at least one row, in some cases two.

After race one a group of us descended on race HQ to make our opinions heard. After lengthy discussions we were told that "We've made our descision, that's how it stands, we're not changing it and what could we do anyway" It was suggested that the riders who had gained so much through the impromtu rule change perhaps loose the results to that race or start from the back of the following race but we were told "No, those riders earned those positions, we can't take it away from them now. It's no use complaining as our descision is final"

We asked who the riders rep was as I'm sure it wasn't mentioned in the briefing and no one could tell us. An hour later it was announced over the PA that it was Darryl Dowman.

I'm wondering how coincidental it is that the major event sponsor is also the main sponsor for the team that the rules were changed to suit?

Alot of rider and sponsors threw a heap of money into getting to this event, put up with the changing weather, rode and made descisions is in a calculating manner and their efforts were for naught. They also miss out on a good chunk of prize money that was potentially theirs.

So, please discuss, tell me I'm wrong to feel cheated and give me a good reason.

On another note, a huge congratulations to Craig Shirriffs. There was a bit of talk he'd find it tough on the thousand 'round there and once again, he stamped his dominance on the field. The man's a legend. Hat's off to you buddy.
I think you should have a chat to your mate Guido...get him to make a few calls...???

[99TLS]

sounds like you got a bit ripped off, is there a tribunal?? that you can protest to

[MSTRS]

It's a pity that the politics of this sort of thing is of no interest to the media. Mind you, the bullshit that passes for 'running the country' is, yet nothing changes.
You have nothing to be embarassed or ashamed of, Jimmy :Punk:

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Jimmy, it seems you and the other riders have been shat on from a great height. It's tough enough being competitive against the big budget sponsored riders as it is, but to be shunted down the field as you guys were smacks of a complete rigging.
It's bloody ridiculous, maybe motorcycle racing died yesterday at The Cemetery Circuit eh!! :mad:

[sugilite]

Welcome to New Zealand celebrity racing. It has always been this way since I started racing (sometime in the 80's) It is not just a Wanganui thing, I've seen such bullshit at just about every race series I've been in. Most clubs indulge in this pandering to celebrities. Get used to it buddy. Complaining will do nothing with these star struck bozo's. And I heavily suspect these celebrities were tipped off first, hence no stars out in qualifying eh. Yep, business as usual in NZ motorcycle racing. <_<

[huck farley]

Why bother running qualifying laps if they take no notice of the times. Really sad.
I live in Wanganui and this year for a long time I boycotted the meeting in protest because they threw out the classic sidecar event. But the farm bikes ran.

I have heard from several long time members of the WM-Club that they have a right dickhead running the show now and listens to nobody. He was the guy calling the shots I believe yesterday.

What happened yesterday would never happened if Joe & Barbara Lett were running the show. I would be protesting to the WM-Club itself with enough complaints, the executive committee will have enough power to relieve Mien Fuhrer of his duties. Or at the AGM he will be arsed out of the top job.

Please come back all you guys that got ripped of. I am sure that the Wanganui MC club receiving enough complaints will act on it. To put on a better race day next boxing day. We here in Wangavagas love to see you hard working privateers winning over the corporate backed machines and riders.

Also I think this event should be a two day-er boxing day and the one after. It;s big enough now imho.
Also Daryl Dowman no longer owns any shares in Dowman Honda. It belongs to his partner Geoff Keown I am told. So it is Keown Honda now.

[Teambwr47]

What sort of prize money is on offer for these street races?

[enigma51]

I think the privateers need to make a big stink about this and so should us as the public it would have been great event if privateer who put everything on the line to qualify in the wet actually won.

Jimmy how many of the non privateers did the qualifying session and please don’t tell me none of them?

It’s the same story with the engine thing we talked about at puke. As the public and privateers we need to stand together and make a big issue out of the blatant unfairness of the current NZ superbike champs.

Who do we need to contact from a public sector for changes to happen?

[enigma51]

What sort of prize money is on offer for these street races?

With the current setup $0 for the private sector (Ps my opinion)

[Paul in NZ]

Mind you - I was thinking about this as I was doing the recycling and there is another side to the argument... Since when has any competitive sport (and particularly motorsports) ever been 'fair'? Like it or lump it, from F1 to AMA to bathurst it is always about maximising your opportunity and if that means bribes, leaning on the organiser, fixing the rules committee then thats what happens.

Actually - theres hardly an era when one team or nationality / engine config has not had some kind 'advantage' due to the arcane rules of the day. Why do they do it? Because in 12 months the result is still in the book and everyone has forgotten how it was achieved... How many GP's did MV win? Racing against who???

Perhaps you need to get your own 'fixer' ??

I'd vote Hitcher for Jimmies Gixxer Fixxer

(ps - this is just another reason I stopped being intersted in motor sports)

[pritch]

I would put in a formal complaint about this to MNZ ... 1. not telling who the rider rep was .... 2. changing the rules. These are things which those running the event should be sanctioned on as it is unacceptable.


Assuming that events transpired exactly as WT described I absolutely agree.

Make a formal complaint to MNZ in writing asap. You've already got sa good draft on this thread :-) It would help if the others effected did so to. If you don't do that, guess what happens at Paroa etc etc etc...

[rwh]

Did the riders who benefited from this have any comment?

Given that there's money (sponsorship) involved, can you sue? Can your sponsors sue? Can the paying spectators sue? Waste of money to see a rigged event.

I suppose it'd be a pity if it killed the event for ever, though.

Richard

[k14]

What sort of prize money is on offer for these street races?
The prize money is quite good for the top place getters in all the classes. But I can't seem to find it documented anywhere. You'll have to get someone with entry forms to let ya know.

[Coyote]

They want all motards there anyway, so I guess let em.


Maybe you should buy a motard mate, they seem to like those there these days.
Are organisers giving special treatment to motards?


Personally, tho I like motards, a whole day of em is kinda boring. And until they do a Greymouth offroad bit in a st circuit, motards are just another roadbike, and not that interesting to watch.
Agreed. Motards are awesome but you need the screaming 600-1000s out there as well. And the motards weren't even slding into corners properly. Hopefully I'll have a motard in time for next years race, as I said last year :p

[enigma51]

Make a formal complaint to MNZ in writing asap.

I think thats exactly what i will putting together tonight and get it signed but fellow punters who feel this is just not right. I think I will raise both this issue as well as the unfair rules. So if there is anyone with some suggestion send it to me I will put something together. I dont want racers to tell me what there thoughs are this is for the punters to get the antention of MNZ so that when we have a group of riders lining up on the start grid we are for sure going to get the best action in NZ if not the world.

The things i think off is
1. What happend this weekend with the grid.
2. The "open" engine rule. ie A guy like jimmy is down 10 - 20horses down on the factory riders even after spending a heap of money.


Maybe nothing will come off it but what if something does change!

[Usarka]

Try flicking them a few notes to fix it up. Sounds like they may be up to a bit of bribery and corruption to get things done..... :whistle:

[CHOPPA]

i would have backed you up for sure on the grid bro in the interests of fair play etc etc... but to my advantage i didnt put wets on for qualifying so they used my practice times, not that it did me any good!

[Nonbeliever]

Nothing suprises me anymore.

More coruption against the "common man"

[quickbuck]

People really need to know that the racing they pay their twenty bucks to watch, is rigged.

$25!

Bloody took me by surprise too....
Initially the cost, then to read this!

Corruption alive and well in Wanganui. Really sux for the "little guys", and without them the fans wouldn't be there to watch.

Yes, it was great to see the Yellow team there... and all the other "Factory" boys, but it was even better to see Mr. Craig kick ass on a supposedly "too powerful for the track 1000".
Why did i go this year?
To watch a good mate of mine, in his first time there, pick up a couple of good finishes in the F3. Yep, no where near the front, but good to see him there.... After all, isn't that what it is all about?

I guess the organisers have forgotten that.

BTW, yep, moving goal posts after the game has started is unprofessional in any codes book.

[ali]

Sorry, their judgement seems to have been lacking.

Cemetary circuit is the best $ 25.00 I spend all year, yours and others efforts to entertain the masses are greatly appreciated and you showed a skill level I can only dream about.

Make sure you return next year.

Wait till you have a clear head before protesting to the relevant authorities, a complaint made in a polite and structured manner ( complete with solution ) is more likely to be taken on board, even if they deserve to be shouted out.

Cheers

[SPman]

The only way any notice will be taken (however slightly) is to make a hell of a racket, now! Also get the other riders organised so that if something like this happens, all the riders affected, strike. People soon get tired of watching 5-6 bikes in a race and want to know why before they all fuck off! The only way you can get through to these pricks, is embarrass them publicly and make a shambles of their show.Then maybe people who put these dickheads in charge will think, before they act (although, I wouldn't bet on it)

It worked in moto GP back in the 70's, re safety.

Good on all you guys, though, who make the event what it is, despite the bullshit and politicking that goes on. You did well, but you'd feel even better about it if you didn't have to put up with this sort of crap, all the time.

[limbimtimwim]

<img src="http://mnz.co.nz/images/common/logo.png">
How about
<img src="http://www.apathy.net.nz/logo2.png">

Actually, I don't know if this was MNZ's doing, but it does seem to be the opposite of their motto. It's hardly fair.

[kr250]

Deviating slightly,but as a punter who has attended Wanganui for the last 20 odd years I found 07 to lack atmospere and and a bloody yawn for most of the day. why the hell do road race meetings need bloody motor cross bikes,surely there are enough classic bikes and chairs to fill the program.This would alleviate the long delays while the track is swept and cleaned.I'm voting with my dollars won't be back while super retards are run as a class

[Shaun]

Thats just fuckin bullshit, I'm fuckin wild. Theres gonna be some mags and MNZ people getting letters this week.


Write to the CLUB President, and boss of the day!

include a self addressed envelope, for a return ( IF)

[merv]

Sorry to hear about what happened Jimmy, but in the circumstances you did pretty well and I was cheering for you and took a few photos of you going by which I'll post on another thread. So yeah we were there supporting you as promised.

To those talking about the motards, here's me a committed chook chaser from way back, but hell I think its wrong too, and boring and I agree with you entirely. I don't go to Wanganui to see dirt bikes ripping around on tarseal. While two of the 'tard races were on that's when me an my Bro' cruised the pits, we couldn't be bothered watching them. Saw a few people we know, but Jimmy where was your pit coz we didn't see you? Were you consigned to a toilet block or something well around the corner to match your newbie status?

[slowpoke]

Hmmmm, as someone who has been depressed at the sorry state of NZ road racing I think I can officially announce a new all time low. Faaaaark me, how did things get to this pathetic level? Our Christmas backyard cricket game was better organised than this bloody shambles even with rain delays, fence repairs (wet grass is slippery dontcha know) and an imprompty nudie run interrupting proceedings......
Waddayadoaboudit? Fuck knows, but my estimation of Brian Bernard has gone down a few notches. As he is supported by Yamaha my estimation of them has gone down a peg or two as well. It may be guilt by association alone but just as his team's glory is reflected on Yamaha so is accepting a blatantly bogus helping hand. The same goes for Andrew Stroud/Suzuki.
I'd be interested in Brian's side of the story and after consultation I'd be approaching Yamaha for comment on the situation. He tends to support overseas riders so it's not like any drop in support will impact NZ riders.
I dare say a few of the riders affected will be doing the Nationals so get together and organise a formal protest and distribute pamphlets/ leaflets/flyers to the public.
Unfortunately the time has passed to make a big impact. Something needed to be done then and there to highlight exactly what has happened. A statement can still be made but it's going to take some organisation, determination and selflessnes, something the road racing fraternity is lacking when off the track.

[twinshock750]

Trashie

Seems like you got stiffed mate.
1) They tell you on the grid (if I recall what your wrote) which doesn't allow you time yo do anything, nor doe sit put you in a good frame of mind right before the start...which is dangerous.
2) When you do have time, it's too late....the race is run.

I suspect that it was probably more the organisers / officials on the day than MNZ, but MNZ steward is there to protect the riders and their rights and is not there as an extension of the organisers powers.

As they had documented how it was to run in the supp regs I believe you would have had the right to lodge a formal protest within 30 min of the result by filling in the correct form and paying the $35 ( I think it is) protest fee to the MNZ steward. That would have caused the proverbial "Oh my god moment" for them. Would probably meant the starting positionfor the next race would be as per the rules.

As suggested elsewhere, I would right to the organisers and to MNZ asking what will be done about the organisers not following their own rules as set down. Get a really curly qustion in there for them to answer. Like why should you be penalised by others inaction (ie the guys who didn't ride in qual, but were on the grid infront of you - they DID have the opportunity to ride, they chose not to be there, as compared to say not being able to be there as a result of some "act of god")

I've seen shite like this at Wanga's on and off for years - I've seen them put sidecars out with solo's for the novice practice....

[merv]

OK just to let you know I've posted a few photos for you over on this thread of Garry's http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=63767

[Rashika]

Are organisers giving special treatment to motards?


Agreed. Motards are awesome but you need the screaming 600-1000s out there as well. And the motards weren't even slding into corners properly. Hopefully I'll have a motard in time for next years race, as I said last year :p

slightly off the topic, but yes I'd say most street races are giving motards a priority. Now dont get me wrong, nothing against Motards BUT... they have a place and time and road racing simply aint it. (Another thread completely ;) ) Having said that Greymouth did a fantastic job at providing an excellant motard track as part of the st circuit and I will be back there fer sure to race and watch. Eg of motards having priority? 5 races at the last nelson st race vs 1.5 for the buckets and 2 for Post classic.

back to Trashie...

[GIXser]

So here is a suggestion on what to do about this for future races ,Paeroa especially,
We need to get a consensus together of enough participants entering paeroa street races, then all those riders need to agree , if the organisers somewhat deviate from the rules, the riders protest and basically dont race, if there is enough support , then the organisers of paeroa will have to follow the rule book the the last detail.
If they dont, Paeroa wont have a race,!
i am going to start a new thread under racing to see what the people say ?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=63806

[Swoop]

That's just not on. Moving the goalpost is one thing, but when you are already lining up for the grid??? Lunacy.:oi-grr:

The only conspiracy that can be thought up: Someone didn't like Miss December...

[Dak]

Write to the CLUB President, and boss of the day!

include a self addressed envelope, for a return ( IF)

fivemacs@xtra.co.nz Lloyd McKenzie

[ynot slow]

The good ol' health and safety bullshit,ffs it is motor sport,all motor sport is dangerous,let alone telling guys on the grid,even dummy grid go back a few spaces and don't winge,that could definately be classed health and safety,get a really pissed off rider with an attitude stuff this, he's gotta fall off,one crash so to speak.

Motards-we don't see street bikes at a moto x do you,they are good to watch,but not at expence of a true road class,if it was a 2 day event add all the claases and keep everyone happy.

Next meet if it happens everyone effected boycott,if it happened again next year and riders went on strike,the public would stay away the next year,the takings would plummit and sponsors would not get a return on their glory imports.Maybe after a couple of slow years the message might get through to the organisers.

Maybe get the crew who run the ocean view speedway run the race,they will hold the NZsuperstock champs in Feb 2008,last meeting of NZ champs was well done.

[sunhuntin]

The good ol' health and safety bullshit,ffs it is motor sport,all motor sport is dangerous,let alone telling guys on the grid,even dummy grid go back a few spaces and don't winge,that could definately be classed health and safety,get a really pissed off rider with an attitude stuff this, he's gotta fall off,one crash so to speak.


i think the sidecar pile up that resulted in a punch up was more dangerous to health and safety, to tell the truth. [bugger i was at the other side of the track and missed it!]

[White trash]

Well the support offered thus far is overwhelming, thanks guys. Before we go lynching anyone however, it needs to be said I have no idea who instigated the idea of changing the rules. I'd hate to see ANYONES name dragged through the mud due to speculation on a public forum.

As it stands now, I'm severly pissed off at the organisers not just for their moving posts after the game had finished but their total apathy towards the situation it caused and a total lack of willingness to even TRY to put it right.

Just had another thought, waht's the name of the TV show covering the event? Got something to do with Korean built 4WDs and people movers don't they?

A letter to both MNZ and the WMC will be drafted tomorrow. Any competitors that would like to help with the proof reading and add their name to the bottom of it please PM me.

[Toast]

It's bullshit that this happened, no question. It didn't really harm me since I only did one lap on cold slicks in qualifying, but I'm gutted for you Jimmy.

What's really just sad though is that the top riders and their teams, for whom the decision was made to benefit, knew what was going to happen and took advantage of it. Ok, no definite word on that, but come on, they wouldn't have stayed in the tent if they thought their boys would start from the back.

Sure it's sport and there is money involved, blah blah...but if they're really so good (and they are better than the privateers), why couldn't they just order the monkeys to change their bikes to wets and go out there and qualify on the front row within the rules? Zero honour. Cocks.

Having said that, I've not had so much fun racing for a long time. I hope they at least admit they're wrong. Even if they don't, I just hope that the racers keep going. If the same shit gets pulled again, at least we know what to do...and that will be almost as much fun as the racing.

[Nasty]

A letter to both MNZ and the WMC will be drafted tomorrow. Any competitors that would like to help with the proof reading and add their name to the bottom of it please PM me.

I am not a competitor but am happy to read the draft for you ...

cheers
Kari

[Kickaha]

Just had another thought, waht's the name of the TV show covering the event? Got something to do with Korean built 4WDs and people movers don't they?

A letter to both MNZ and the WMC will be drafted tomorrow. Any competitors that would like to help with the proof reading and add their name to the bottom of it please PM me.

Good idea right there, you should send it to the event sponsor as well

[Cajun]

Just had another thought, waht's the name of the TV show covering the event? Got something to do with Korean built 4WDs and people movers don't they?


Sanyong . I think is name you are looking for

[Coyote]

...the $35 ( I think it is) protest fee to the MNZ steward.
What?

You have to pay to get any help from them?

[White trash]

Sanyong . I think is name you are looking for

Interstingly, the same as the main event sponsor and a certain Yamahahaha team.

What's going on here?

[limbimtimwim]

Just had another thought, waht's the name of the TV show covering the event? Got something to do with Korean built 4WDs and people movers don't they?Says here (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU0712/S00293.htm) TVNZ will screen it on the powerbuilt (tools) motorsport show.

[Deano]

Says here (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU0712/S00293.htm) TVNZ will screen it on the powerbuilt (tools) motorsport show.

From the article.

"Cemetery Circuit '07 is set to be even bigger and better than previous years, on December 26 the racing around the streets of Wanganui, which is sponsored by SsangYong New Zealand and Pirelli Tyres, will not only be televised for screening on TVNZ's Powerbuilt Motorsport, but will be beamed live to the World over the internet. "

I have just sent an e-mail to someone in the know asking how this situation came about - I may not get a response but it's worth a shot.

[anarchy]

As a wanganui virgin (bike 34 mobile stroud chicane(sorry andrew)) and junior member of Team Hard On Racing I'd like to add my 2 cents worth. Quite frankly I was very disapointed with the way the meeting was run, I like the majority of the non factory backed riders went out in the very wet qualifiing (hell I new I would be starting at the back but at least I went out) I slipped and slid my way to 29th (out of 30 who went out) and was extreamly stoked to find that the rest of the team had pulled out a stunner and managed a credible 6th Dave Less (thanks for lending me your 750 after you saw what I did to the harris) and 8th Neil (Doc) Martin both of whom had qualified in front of Andrew stroud 12th (Good on him for going out in the wet like the rest of the kiwi's) like the rest of us I was stunned with Glen's amazing front row qualifier (dude your a Leg End). I must say here that it was good to see at least the kiwi boy on the yellow bike went out and qualified (unlike his team mates).
Stoked and scared sh****s I rocked on up to the dummy grid to find out we had all been pushed back so that a bevy of yellow (fitting color) yamaha's could be slotted into the 2nd row and Andrew had also been moved forward.
Ok not much that we could do about it there and the boys pulled out a another bliner with credible top ten finishes and davey kicked a bit of yamaha butt even with them burgling his grid position but the bit that really got us going was the attitude of the "officials" when we went to lodge a formal protest (royal runaround comes to mind) the boys were literally sent from one person to another right up to the point where the boys needed to get back to there bikes for the robert holden rnd 1. And even when they did get to voice their very valid concerns they were then given the safety concern BS.

It seems to me that rather than a safety concern (lets face it if they cant get past us backmarkers they shouldn't be there anyway, and they didn't seem to have any problems towards the end of the races, n) it was either done to nake good TV (why even have qualifying lets just line the front rows with big names) or to please the people with the big $$$$, and while I applaude the big guys for supporting these races us little guys also put huge amounts of time and money into putting together a prossional team.

Brian if your reading this I and the rest of the guys are very dissapointed that you would allow a team running under your banner to act in such an unprofessional and under handed mannor Thats just not Criket dude.

Andrew while you at least qualified I noticed you didn't turn down the front row when it was offered.

Questions MNZ and the Wanganui MC need to answer
* Whats the point in the rules if you guys are going to change them on the fly?
* Why weren't the riders told about the grid position change before they got to the dummy grid ? (we all got the sheets to see where we would be placed).
* Why wasn't the riders rep anounced earlier ? (not that he seemed to be much help anyway)
* Why were we given such a run around on the day ?
* Exactly how much does it cost to get on the front or second row? (I think I will get out a mortgage for next year).
* Who do I give the money to ? (un-marked bills in a plain envelope OK?)
* What if anything can be done now?.
* Brian Will you do any thing? maybe the prize money your guys burgled should be put up as prizes for the none factory riders at Paeroa.

[limbimtimwim]

"Cemetery Circuit '07 is set to be even bigger and better than previous years, on December 26 the racing around the streets of Wanganui, which is sponsored by SsangYong New Zealand and Pirelli Tyres, will not only be televised for screening on TVNZ's Powerbuilt Motorsport, but will be beamed live to the World over the internet. "Yes, however WT was referring to 'Ssangyong Speedmachine' and 'Ssangyoung Speedweek' which screen(ed?) on Prime TV.

[White trash]

As a wanganui virgin (bike 34 mobile stroud chicane(sorry andrew)) and junior member of Team Hard On Racing I'd like to add my 2 cents worth. Quite frankly I was very disapointed with the way the meeting was run, I like the majority of the non factory backed riders went out in the very wet qualifiing (hell I new I would be starting at the back but at least I went out) I slipped and slid my way to 29th (out of 30 who went out) and was extreamly stoked to find that the rest of the team had pulled out a stunner and managed a credible 6th Dave Less (thanks for lending me your 750 after you saw what I did to the harris) and 8th Neil (Doc) Martin both of whom had qualified in front of Andrew stroud 12th (Good on him for going out in the wet like the rest of the kiwi's) like the rest of us I was stunned with Glen's amazing front row qualifier (dude your a Leg End). I must say here that it was good to see at least the kiwi boy on the yellow bike went out and qualified (unlike his team mates).
Stoked and scared sh****s I rocked on up to the dummy grid to find out we had all been pushed back so that a bevy of yellow (fitting color) yamaha's could be slotted into the 2nd row and Andrew had also been moved forward.
Ok not much that we could do about it there and the boys pulled out a another bliner with credible top ten finishes and davey kicked a bit of yamaha butt even with them burgling his grid position but the bit that really got us going was the attitude of the "officials" when we went to lodge a formal protest (royal runaround comes to mind) the boys were literally sent from one person to another right up to the point where the boys needed to get back to there bikes for the robert holden rnd 1. And even when they did get to voice their very valid concerns they were then given the safety concern BS.

It seems to me that rather than a safety concern (lets face it if they cant get past us backmarkers they shouldn't be there anyway, and they didn't seem to have any problems towards the end of the races, n) it was either done to nake good TV (why even have qualifying lets just line the front rows with big names) or to please the people with the big $$$$, and while I applaude the big guys for supporting these races us little guys also put huge amounts of time and money into putting together a prossional team.

Brian if your reading this I and the rest of the guys are very dissapointed that you would allow a team running under your banner to act in such an unprofessional and under handed mannor Thats just not Criket dude.

Andrew while you at least qualified I noticed you didn't turn down the front row when it was offered.

Questions MNZ and the Wanganui MC need to answer
* Whats the point in the rules if you guys are going to change them on the fly?
* Why weren't the riders told about the grid position change before they got to the dummy grid ? (we all got the sheets to see where we would be placed).
* Why wasn't the riders rep anounced earlier ? (not that he seemed to be much help anyway)
* Why were we given such a run around on the day ?
* Exactly how much does it cost to get on the front or second row? (I think I will get out a mortgage for next year).
* Who do I give the money to ? (un-marked bills in a plain envelope OK?)
* What if anything can be done now?.
* Brian Will you do any thing? maybe the prize money your guys burgled should be put up as prizes for the none factory riders at Paeroa.
Thanks very much for your perspective mate.

If you talk to Neil or Dave can you please ask them to PM or email me on wtrash@ihug.co.nz I want to make sure the wording on my letters is exactly how events transpired, not based on emotion in anyway.

[Teambwr47]

(thanks for lending me your 750 after you saw what I did to the harris)

Were you by any chance the rider who crashed going into turn 1 at Pukekohe the other week on what looked like a Harris framed bike when the engine let go....??

[anarchy]

white trash, will do they are checking out the posts as well.

And Yes that was me and my Harris Magnum 4 trying to learn to fly. ouch hurt me little finger. oh and bent the bike, still cant believe dave lent me his old bike after he saw what happened to mine.

[anarchy]

Looks like the engine didn't let go, one of the bolts in the cam cover cam out and it had a high pressure oil feed behind it, oil every where, lots of smoke and a slippery slick on the rear resulting in the spectacular crash. Its taking a bit to get my head around that one by hey at least I'm out there again.

[Shaun]

fivemacs@xtra.co.nz Lloyd McKenzie



Are you saying that Lloyd M was the boss on the day?

The same Lloyd, from Ssangyong cars?

[jrandom]

Just logged on for the first time after the racing and saw this thread.

Jimmy (and all you other racers who got shat upon), I'm very disappointed to hear this. It really takes the shine off what should have otherwise been an awesome day.

I hope that an appropriate amount of noise and fuss gets made, because this sort of blatant corruption tarnishes and devalues the sport terribly. We racing fans don't want to ride thousand-kilometre round trips just to see a faked-up spectacle.

Keep us up to date!

:2guns:

[sunhuntin]

i think some letters to newspapers need to go out. as a spectator, i knew nothing of what happened on the grid until i read this thread. im betting many of the other spectators dont realise either.
trashy, and others who were shoved back in favour of the big names, i suggest you bombard the wanganui chronicle with mail... enough of it comes through, they might write an article, which will help spread the word, and also put the pressure on locals who assisted with the grid shuffle.

[Kickaha]

We racing fans don't want to ride thousand-kilometre round trips just to see a faked-up spectacle.

pfffffft only a thousand?

I was very disappointed when WT came back into the pits and told me what had happened and fully support any letter that is sent, that was complete and utter bullshit, but certainly not the first time I've seen the rules changed on the day at a meeting to suit the big names

[Teambwr47]

Saw the whole thing unfold mate as i was stood right by the race control...........

The bike was smoking when you came over the hill onto the straight and i shouted to the marshals at the finish line who were at the time not looking at the track at all. You'd passed the flag point by the time they realised and as you passed i could see oil was all over the back end of the bike and the tyre was wet with oil....

I kept watching in dread knowing what was going to happen and sure enough it flicked you in a high side as soon as you entered turn 1. Even with my limited knowledge of the circuit i know turn 1 is not a good place to get off and as you disappeared into the turn and out of view of few a us stood there feared you would be badly injured.

Very pleased to hear you were relatively OK....

[Deano]

Yes, however WT was referring to 'Ssangyong Speedmachine' and 'Ssangyoung Speedweek' which screen(ed?) on Prime TV.


I thought the inference was that Ssangyong sponsor both the event and the Yamaha guys.

[slowpoke]

I was pretty dirty on the Bernard Team, Stroud etc but it's occurred to me they could very well be innocent parties in all of this.
They may have been told something that was not communicated to the bulk of the field. That being the case should they now be punished and have their reputation rubbished for an organisers cock-up in not communicating vital information to the rest of the competitors?
They could have been just as suprised as WT was when they rocked up to the grid that someone was already camped in their position.
Has anyone spoken to Brian Bernard about what transpired from their perspective?

[Kickaha]

I was pretty dirty on the Bernard Team, Stroud etc but it's occurred to me they could very well be innocent parties in all of this.
They may have been told something that was not communicated to the bulk of the field. That being the case should they now be punished and have their reputation rubbished for an organisers cock-up in not communicating vital information to the rest of the competitors?
They could have been just as suprised as WT was when they rocked up to the grid that someone was already camped in their position.
Has anyone spoken to Brian Bernard about what transpired from their perspective?

Whichever way you look at it they accepted grid positions they had not earned

[White trash]

I was pretty dirty on the Bernard Team, Stroud etc but it's occurred to me they could very well be innocent parties in all of this.
They may have been told something that was not communicated to the bulk of the field. That being the case should they now be punished and have their reputation rubbished for an organisers cock-up in not communicating vital information to the rest of the competitors?
They could have been just as suprised as WT was when they rocked up to the grid that someone was already camped in their position.
Has anyone spoken to Brian Bernard about what transpired from their perspective?


Agree completely. I don't know Brians position on the matter however I aim to find out.

As for someone camping in their grid spots, they didn't have any. That's the bitch.

The fact that they were all smiling and covered in Pirelli clothed grid girls for the cameras, without so much as a rearward glance at their fellow competitors whose spots they had taken, indicates they weren't too fussed about the iregularitys.

[Dak]

Are you saying that Lloyd M was the boss on the day?

The same Lloyd, from Ssangyong cars?

As far as I know, he was the event director, the man running the show. And yes untill very very recently he was selling Ssangyong vehicles.

[Clivoris]

Hey Jimmy.
All I can add is that I too am dissappointed with the treatment received by those who went out and qualified. Even if the organisors can fabricate a safety based argument for what happened, the way it was done smells like arse. Complaints may not change the past but they may change how things are done in the future. Good luck with it.
I wasn't able to be there on the day to sample the racing but I'm stoked that the riding itself went well for you and that Mr Shirrifs ripped shit up, again.

[anarchy]

I was pretty dirty on the Bernard Team, Stroud etc but it's occurred to me they could very well be innocent parties in all of this.
They may have been told something that was not communicated to the bulk of the field. That being the case should they now be punished and have their reputation rubbished for an organisers cock-up in not communicating vital information to the rest of the competitors?
They could have been just as suprised as WT was when they rocked up to the grid that someone was already camped in their position.
Has anyone spoken to Brian Bernard about what transpired from their perspective?

Here's a question for you

If you were the manager of a high profile team and you like everyone else at the riders breifing heard them say that the practice was only a practice to allow people to get used to the track and that anyone who didn't go out and qualify would be starting from the back of the grid. Would you let your guys sit in the pits to risk starting from the rear??. Question DID THEY KNOW BEFORE HAND? THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A BIT. If they didn't and it was completely up to the officials on the day then I'm sorry for the comment but it doesn't look good

[skelstar]

...without so much as a rearward glance at their fellow competitors whose spots they had taken, indicates they weren't too fussed about the iregularitys.
Maybe they were just embarrased? Think that until conversations are had with the (superstar) riders involved, it would be better that they have the benefit of the doubt for now...

[Kickaha]

Question DID THEY KNOW BEFORE HAND? THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A BIT.

If they didn't they either weren't at riders briefing or didn't bother listening to it as the question was asked and it was answered loud and clear

[roadracingoldfart]

Ok here is my 2 cents worth which may or may not assist in keeping a playing field even.......
If a rule is discussed at the riders briefing then that is the rule for the day unless a new revised briefing takes place.
If the entry form says anything about grid positions being based on qualifying times then tuff shit Mr, thats the rule , again unless notified at rides briefing.
Subsequent regulations can only be instigated with due notice again at the riders brief, not by bush pit lane telegraph.
My understanding is that a riders rep must be nominated or announced at the briefing ( but im happy to be proved wrong)
If the grid positions were posted in any form in the competitors area for thier interest then those are the grid positions and can not be altered to suit overseas or fancy teams.

I find it destructive for racing to see a thread like this on a public forum but i have to accept its the best , most effective way to attain a consensus over an issue that in my opinion should never have happened and should never be considered by a crew running an event thats more than likely the premier race for the year and certainly a must do for competitors and spectators alike.
I have been going to Wanganui evey year since 1981 and raced it twice and entered it 3 times (long story). Its a shame to see 3 classes for motards ( S1, S2 & Bears) but its fine if its supported by entries. However does it have to be run at the detriment of other classes where cross entering is not allowed and the motards can ?? Hmmm maybe.
After all that Jimmy i will sign any letter you format and have already rung Paul at MNZ to tell him of my issues with this event yupp he wasnt available. It is after all a sanctioned event with the permit being issued by MNZ so they are the ones whos rules were broken.
The Wanganui club ran it but in my opinion did not do so in the spirit of the rules or the letter of the permit submitted.
Its a shame init.
Ohhh and PS; i dont care if i get up anybodies nose with this diatribe.
Paul.
TEAM CANBRACE RACING.


.

[Grub]

As far as I know, he was the event director, the man running the show. And yes untill very very recently he was selling Ssangyong vehicles.

A guy called Jim Tuckerman was the Clerk of Course and he is a real arsehole. As Flag Marshalls we were on the start-finish at 7am sharp when this prat turned up and started dressing us down like naughty school kids!

WTF??? Here we were ready to spend all day standing in the fucking rain without a break or the opportunity to move from our post for 10 painful hours and this fuckwit starts on with this crap. He was even addressed as God!

From what we could see he then spent the whole day playing the big-noter. As Clerk of Course he is supposed to be on top of everything at the meeting. He's supposed to be available and informative to his leutenants all around the track, in the timing caravan and in the pits. Instead what did he do? He drove around all day in the pretty 4WD Safety Car with a cell phone glued to his ear. Firstly he shouldn't have been driving the thing, he should have been on top of his job. The Army has worked that one out decades ago - officers are not allowed to drive, they are driven so that their minds are free to strategise so they can anticipate and be on top of things.

I have known of Jim Tuckerman for some time and it is no surprise that he would not listen to anyone else and was a real arsehole about the whole thing - it fits. He's the guy to target, I've done my bit by writing to Lloyd McKenzie at the Club.

[slowpoke]

As for someone camping in their grid spots, they didn't have any. That's the bitch.


Someone somewhere had a piece of paper showing a grid formation with their names slotted in, how else did they know where to grid up? They may have just been doing exactly as they were told unaware that you hadn't been told the "new and improved" starting qualifications.


Here's a question for you

If you were the manager of a high profile team and you like everyone else at the riders breifing heard them say that the practice was only a practice to allow people to get used to the track and that anyone who didn't go out and qualify would be starting from the back of the grid. Would you let your guys sit in the pits to risk starting from the rear??. Question DID THEY KNOW BEFORE HAND? THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A BIT. If they didn't and it was completely up to the officials on the day then I'm sorry for the comment but it doesn't look good

Exactly, which leads to the assumption that they had been told something that others had not. They may have erred on the side of caution with not running qualifying during wet conditions and a revised format may have only been communicated to a few teams, hoping (incorrectly) that the grapevine would do the rest.


If they didn't they either weren't at riders briefing or didn't bother listening to it as the question was asked and it was answered loud and clear

That's not to say that some official hasn't got in touch with their feminine side and changed their mind between the riders briefing and gridding up.


Think that until conversations are had with the (superstar) riders involved, it would be better that they have the benefit of the doubt for now...

Skelly's onto it. Someone from the promoted side of the fence needs to give their version of events before they are hung out to dry. They may have been mongrels and accepted the scraps they were given....or they may have acted in good faith unaware of the reason for the poor organisation/confusion. If it's the former then have at it, pistols at dawn and all that stuff....but if it's the latter then the damage can't be undone to someone's reputation. Wait until the full story comes out before we start rubbishing these guys.

[Kickaha]

Ok, I just remembered a incident from last year as well, a South Island sidecar team traveled up to compete in the event, they did their practice and qualifying and rode up to the grid for race 1

At the dummy grid they were told, they were to slow and couldn't race, nothing had been mentioned at riders briefing or on any documentation about having a qualifying cut off

Yes they were slow, but not as slow as some classics that had been allowed out in the class in previous years, they had also competed at national rounds and had two seasons experience and the other competitors were also happy for them to be allowed out with them, in fact all the rest of the field that I spoke to were spewing that they'd been allowed to travel up do practice and qualifying and then not be allowed out

A few letters were written to the club regarding this, not one that I know of was replied to

[Kickaha]

A guy called Jim Tuckerman was the Clerk of Course and he is a real arsehole. As Flag Marshalls we were on the start-finish at 7am sharp when this prat turned up and started dressing us down like naughty school kids!

WTF??? Here we were ready to spend all day standing in the fucking rain without a break or the opportunity to move from our post for 10 painful hours and this fuckwit starts on with this crap. He was even addressed as God!
.

Best way to deal with shit like that is to tell them to get fucked and walk off

[Drew]

Bro, the whole thiong reeks of shit to me, hound anyone who will listen about it!!!

On a brighter note, I SCHOOLED Stroud in damp track riding in the third race earlier today, just for you mate:Punk:

[codgyoleracer]

It's not so much that we'd outdo the "pros", those guys were faster on a dry track, no doubt about it. Craig for example (and he qualifyed just like the rest of us) could win off the back on a BMX I reckon. He's just so quick there. I just feel that you should start from where you qualify, and have to fight your way through, just like everyone else.

It's like, had I not ridden the session, then gone to the organiser and said "Hey, I don't like the rain so I didn't ride but I'm actually semi quick. Can I start from the second row please?" Get laughed outta the place.


Thats would be pretty much it Jimmy,

All - "in the interest of safety", - but why this would be when the top three rows were all national class experienced riders is beyond me. - (we all know a bit about safety aye).

It is/was a joke & showed no respect to the riders that made the effort & followed the rules that were set in place. What was doubly dumbfounding was Pete Tanner specifically raised this issue at riders briefing re the matter if it was " wet for qualifying" (as he didint have the right tyres) , the answer he got from Jim in front of all the riders was " if you dont go out in qualifying you will start at the back" . (It was said firmly , loudly & sarcastically).

It was also intersting to see that the guys that did get moved up in the ranks wouldnt comment & couldnt care less. Thats worth remembering. (although ime not sure that I wouldnt be tempted by the same offer).

Personally getting shoved back from the front row to 11th spot in F1 was pretty annoying.)

Footnote:
(Or as the wife said to the officials in a nice loud voice " Cheating is cheating - it doesnt matter who pays for it" )

Glen Williams

[HDTboy]

But Glen, haven't you been told you're not allowed to win F1 on an SV650 at the street races?

[White trash]

Thanks for your comments Glen. From a racer with as much experiance as yourself, it's good to know how you see the situation.

Cheating is cheating. Plain and simple.

I also know for a fact that someone who benefitted greatly from this illegal rule change feels zero remorse and in fact thinks they deserved the rules to be changed.

[Sanx]

Glen, Jimmy - it says a lot about your fellow competitors that they were just happy to take advantage and couldn't care less about sportsmanship, fair play or doing what's right.
In particular, there's one rider who has earned respect through years of competition. If he had raised a stink about the situation - had he benefited or not - people would have listened. He also likes to do a little preaching in his spare time, I believe. Perhaps he should remind himself of what the eighth commandment says about stealing.

[anarchy]

Glen,

dude of all the guys you were probably ripped the most, you did a stunning job in the qualifing (I gave both dave and neil stick for being trounced by the mere 650).

The officials obivously thought that you had swapped transponders with Stroud and needed to fix that by swapping you around on the grid. of course on the up side once they swap the transponder problem in the computer and swap the names back around I'm sure Andrew will see the error and send that 2nd place prize money right on over (as they say YEAH RIGHT!).

GREAT RIDEING ON THE DAY ANY WAY GLEN AND ALL THE REST OF THE BOYS THAT HAD TO DEAL WITH THE GRID POSITION HEAD F**K.

[Drunken Monkey]

I'm suprised this is the first time I've read about something like this actually. Motorsport in NZ is rife with this kind of BS, a similar thing happened to Anton Tallot in Targa to give Jim Richards his media covered "win". Stamp it out before it becomes commonplace.

[twinshock750]

What?

You have to pay to get any help from them?

Nah, it's only on loan. Who's to say on any proest that anyone has been wronged! You get it back I think if you protest is upheld.

The fee and the form means it is in writing and (ie formal and stipulates exactly what you are protesting so there is no confusion later) and the fee makes people think before protesting the colour of your socks.

Bit sad if the organisers and MNZ steward couldn't organise that. The protest form should be something they can produce easily. Failing that a blank sheet of paper where the protestor can outline briefly the issue and rule breach should be enough, along with their licence # and name, contact details etc. The "MNZ form" from memory is only so that there is a prompt to get all the details required.

[twinshock750]

Thanks for your comments Glen. From a racer with as much experiance as yourself, it's good to know how you see the situation.

Cheating is cheating. Plain and simple.

I also know for a fact that someone who benefitted greatly from this illegal rule change feels zero remorse and in fact thinks they deserved the rules to be changed.

Arse: For someone to benefit from cheating means that someone else is loosing from the situation. Shows how much the recipient of the advantage taken cares about others.

[huck farley]

Jimmy and the rest of you guys that got ripped of on Boxing day straight after the race was over should have gone and sat on the start finish line in protest of the Mickey mouse deal you all got handed out. Fukn stinks and makes me ashamed to be a local.

And I say it again The cemetery circuit is no place to ride farm bikes on, FFS go away and fined some cockeys paddock to race around, the lot of you!! And keep our racetrack clean for the real blokes to race on. Even if they were ripped of by the officials.

[jellywrestler]

the whole gridding system is flawed at wanganui to a point of being dangerous.
grids should not be fixed on practice times, practice is practice this way effectively your practice sessions are races to qualify.
the bernard bikes should've been well up given their ability as the whole point is to acheive a safe race start.
gridding the world championship winning sidecar of steve brons at 10th was stupid- this bike should've been on the front row for safeties sake. as was he tried to make up for hius lost ground and caused a huge crash.
last year there was an xs650 yamaha with 5 inch tyres in front of R1 powered units with 10inch tyres as the smaller bike had a better qualifying time.
anyone with an ounce of grey matter would know that the drag race to the first corners is going to end in tears, and it did, eight sidecars plied up.

let the grids be set by someone with rider and machine knowledge and LET PRACTICE BE PRACTICE

[Sketchy_Racer]

I completly disagree with your words jellywrestler.

If the "fast" guys are in fact "fast" then they can get their sorry arses out into qualifying just like everyone else and EARN their place on the grid.

[Kickaha]

gridding the world championship winning sidecar of steve brons at 10th was stupid- this bike should've been on the front row for safeties sake. as was he tried to make up for hius lost ground and caused a huge crash.

According to Steve that happened when another outfit hit him from behind, being on the front is no guarentee incidents like that wont happen as Stacey was right off the front and didn't make the corner until after the crash

His passenger hadn't raced at that track before so they probably took it easy in qualifying hence the low grid number



last year there was an xs650 yamaha with 5 inch tyres in front of R1 powered units with 10inch tyres as the smaller bike had a better qualifying time.
anyone with an ounce of grey matter would know that the drag race to the first corners is going to end in tears, and it did, eight sidecars plied up.

let the grids be set by someone with rider and machine knowledge and LET PRACTICE BE PRACTICE

I don't remember any 8 sidecar pile up in turn 1 last year, I thought that happened up through the cemetery where the fast ones would have already got past

[jimsaliasaccount]

So, please discuss, tell me I'm wrong to feel cheated and give me a good reason.


Dear James,

It appears you feel you have been cheated.

You and every other "cheated" rider had the perfect oppurtunity on the day, infront of the tv cameras to go and take your "rightfuly earnedl" spots on the grid. Yet you and the others didnt, you sat there an took it, right up the a....

Now at home on your computer you are bitching, moaning and accusing people on the internet, infact even you started a defenseless tirade on Andrew Strouds religious beliefs. Come on!

Why so up in arms now when all you did on the grid was sit there an stare evils into someones helmet on your grid spot??????

[skelstar]

Mate, everything is always clearer in retrospect.

[White trash]

Dear James,

It appears you feel you have been cheated.



I don't actually care whether I was or wasn't cheated, is it fair to change rules after the fact? You obviously think so. I've no doubt the guys who made the most from this "rule" change were faster than me on the day. It does wind me up a little that I out qualified Stroud fair and square only to have is pathetic twelfth place on the grid.


You and every other "cheated" rider had the perfect oppurtunity on the day, infront of the tv cameras to go and take your "rightfuly earnedl" spots on the grid. Yet you and the others didnt, you sat there an took it, right up the a....

We thought the appropriate action would be to try and sort the issue out ammicably with the organisers. Something they weren't interested in talking about


Now at home on your computer you are bitching, moaning and accusing people on the internet, infact even you started a defenseless tirade on Andrew Strouds religious beliefs. Come on!


WTF? Wanna direct me to where I accused Andrew of anything or once started a tirade on his religious beliefs? Nice trolling, I thought you could read better than that Jim:D.



Why so up in arms now when all you did on the grid was sit there an stare evils into someones helmet on your grid spot??????

Because I want the motorcycle racing fans of New Zealand to know that their championships are effectively rigged.

[Tony.OK]

the whole gridding system is flawed at wanganui to a point of being dangerous.
grids should not be fixed on practice times, practice is practice this way effectively your practice sessions are races to qualify.
the bernard bikes should've been well up given their ability as the whole point is to acheive a safe race start.
gridding the world championship winning sidecar of steve brons at 10th was stupid- this bike should've been on the front row for safeties sake. as was he tried to make up for hius lost ground and caused a huge crash.
last year there was an xs650 yamaha with 5 inch tyres in front of R1 powered units with 10inch tyres as the smaller bike had a better qualifying time.anyone with an ounce of grey matter would know that the drag race to the first corners is going to end in tears, and it did, eight sidecars plied up.

let the grids be set by someone with rider and machine knowledge and LET PRACTICE BE PRACTICE

Couldn't agree more regarding "practice"
But QUALIFYING is what postitions have to be based on,those who do not do qualifying should be at the back off the grid PERIOD.
If a slower rider sets a faster time during qualifying than someone else then they have earned their grid position.
If a rider can't be bothered qualifying then "sorry but you're on the back row mate"......should've put in some effort aye?

[White trash]

I'm suprised this is the first time I've read about something like this actually. Motorsport in NZ is rife with this kind of BS, a similar thing happened to Anton Tallot in Targa to give Jim Richards his media covered "win". Stamp it out before it becomes commonplace.
Hey DM, come 'round for a beer mate. I've got 6 or 7 stories about NZ motorcycle racing being rife with corruption and political BS.

[cowpoos]

Hey DM, come 'round for a beer mate. I've got 6 or 7 stories about NZ motorcycle racing being rife with corruption and political BS.
don't forget to mention...that he has to bring the beers??

[sAsLEX]

anyone with an ounce of grey matter would know that the drag race to the first corners is going to end in tears, and it did, eight sidecars plied up.



The more experienced racers shouldn't be lead into a first corner pile up if they have any sense. If they are in fact quicker they can bide their time and pass through out the rest of the course once the first few corners are cleared.

[Fatjim]

Trashy, were are your balls mate. No point bitching and crying like a 5 year old now. You should have have your hissy fit and thrown your toys out the pram on the starting grid like a real man!

[Drew]

Trashy, were are your balls mate. No point bitching and crying like a 5 year old now. You should have have your hissy fit and thrown your toys out the pram on the starting grid like a real man!

I know I would have stepped off my bike and lay it on the track, then threatened the first marshal with serious bodily harm if they touched it, (not that I can back that up), but the grown up thing to do is exactly what the people wronged did.

[TonyB]

You have indeed been shat on Mr Trashy. So let me get this straight- they used the 'combined' times from Practice and Qualifying to determine the race order, but the 'factory' teams didn't actually take part in Qualifying? Is that correct?

If it is correct, what kind of system did they use for combining the times?? If you don't compete in a round of qualifying, surely you get given the SLOWEST time- back of the grid. Therefore even if a rider had a shit hot time in Practice, the fact that they didn't take part in Qualifying should see them heavily penalised! The only way I could see this working out, is if the slowest rider in Practice still had a pretty reasonable time (not too far off the front row of those that took part), so when that time and the practice time were combined, they ended up still being at the front of the grid.

Something tells me though, that it was either totally rigged, or the morons went: Mr Trashy 59 seconds plus 1 minute 15 = 2min 14. Mr Stroud 55 seconds plus 0 seconds = 55 seconds

Some time ago, a prominent racer said that he was worried about the state of road racing in NZ- he and a few others had been at the top since Adam was a cowboy, and they were still there. Exactly how does this sort of bullshit help fix the problem?

[White trash]

Yheu just took the fastest time from either session. After saying that the first session didn't have any bearing on the grid order.

[Mastaphata]

Just a thought on this shambles.Having been involved in many forms of motorsport i feel that holding the organisers to blame could be taking the blame off those people it should lie with.Excuse me if im wrong but is it not the responsibility of the Clerk of Course or Steward to make sure that the rules are enforced,ok if the organisers did propose this combining of practice and qualifying then surely it is up to the C.O.C or steward to overule it and stick to the rules.
I personally would like to see M N Z questioned as to the ability of those concerned

[GSVR]

Hey Jimmy have you rung Brian Bernard yet?
http://www.bernardracing.co.nz/

If you do ring him ask about the 600 incident last year. Craig was so upset he never turned up to the prizegiving (Well thats the way I saw it).

And be nice as Brian is doing alot for promoting the sport.

Look at the big picture and the future of the sport.

Put New Zealand on the map as a motorcycling capital of the world.

Don't f**k it up and have these riders the last overseas ones we ever see again.

I reacon Craig Shirriffs should have started of the back but he still would have won and probably gone under 50.
(Edit: He was in the 49's in two races)

[Racey Rider]

Trashy, were are your balls mate. No point bitching and crying like a 5 year old now. You should have have your hissy fit and thrown your toys out the pram on the starting grid like a real man!

Sounds to me like a lot of the racers were 'ambushed'. Given 'No Time' to think about the change made, and an appropriate response. Sure in hind-sight, parking the bike on the grid till this madness was sorted would have been an 'interesting' way of proceeding. But to ask Trashy to be the first to do that under the conditions is a big ask, (his first time there remember). Would have been nice to see a 'more Senior' racer initiate that form of protest perhaps. (WT- it means 'start' or 'take first step' )

I only race 150's, and I hate it when things don't go smoothly right before the green flag drops. I can only imagine the concentration needed in the big boys class, barreling into the first corner,, the last thing you want on your mind is 'What The #*@^ just happened on the Grid!!!'

As to other comments suggesting 'The fast bikes should be at the front for Safety Reasons'. Just cause you have more horses under you does Not give you the Right to exit the first corner First!

Racey

[slowpoke]

And be nice as Brian is doing alot for promoting the sport.

Look at the big picture and the future of the sport.

Put New Zealand on the map as a motorcycling capital of the world.

Don't f**k it up and have these riders the last overseas ones we ever see again.

You're joking right? If Brian Bernard is doing so much for the sport then why is it at such a low ebb? At the last North island Nationals round I went to, on a fine day, there were only about a dozen competitors in the Superbike class, 2 of which were from Oz, and 2 guys were on seriously outclassed machinery making up the numbers so to speak (no disrespect meant) leaving a grand total of 8 reasonably serious competitiors from throughout NZ.

Brian is fostering overseas riders not NZ riders.

We have no riders competing in WSBK or MotoGP or any realistic prospects.

We have no live TV coverage and delayed coverage is heavily edited/condensed.

Our premier championship was won by an Australian privateer.

Can things seriously get any worse???!!!

[Deano]

Look at the big picture and the future of the sport.


Garry, do you think the incident that occurred is good for the future of the sport, or detrimental to it ?

[jellywrestler]

I completly disagree with your words jellywrestler.

If the "fast" guys are in fact "fast" then they can get their sorry arses out into qualifying just like everyone else and EARN their place on the grid.

as a multiple winner in sidecars at wanganui i know that practice is short and bloody hard work and often used to set up suspension gearing etc.. the way it is now means the second session is a race, even if you're not worried about your grid positions others around you are taking risks to acheive this.
i have also been a witness in a coroners court on a road race fatality and know full well that this set up would be interesting if it ended up in front of them


as for bron getting hit from behind maybe he should buy the sidecar if its fast enough to catch up with his!

[GSVR]

Garry, do you think the incident that occurred is good for the future of the sport, or detrimental to it ?

Its a shocker. I talked about it with What? at Taupo. We joked a bit as its so rediculous. This street race is promoted as the Southern Hemisphere IOM.

Its been running for 50 years and they still change the rules every year.

Another rule change this year I didn't know about was the Grid for the second race in each class was based on Qualifying not your finish in the first race. So if you qualified bad and get up through the field for a good result in race 1 you have to do it all again in race 2.

There were positives this year but next year is anyones guess.

For anyone thats reading I've only raced there once (last year). Would like to hear more from the experienced riders but I think they know better.

[GSVR]

As for ringing Brian Bernard or the organisers its probably a bit like asking Bernie Ecclestone for some changes in F1.

Its a great event but I bet running its a thankless task so nowdays you have to pay someone who may or maynot be passionate about it..

[GSVR]

You're joking right? If Brian Bernard is doing so much for the sport then why is it at such a low ebb? At the last North island Nationals round I went to, on a fine day, there were only about a dozen competitors in the Superbike class, 2 of which were from Oz, and 2 guys were on seriously outclassed machinery making up the numbers so to speak (no disrespect meant) leaving a grand total of 8 reasonably serious competitiors from throughout NZ.

Brian is fostering overseas riders not NZ riders.
Brian isn't fostering anyone they pay to race

We have no riders competing in WSBK or MotoGP or any realistic prospects.
Sam Smith or Jay Lawrence seem realistic prospects.

We have no live TV coverage and delayed coverage is heavily edited/condensed.
Maybe thay should put all races on the TAB but someones saying they are rigged

Our premier championship was won by an Australian privateer.
And New Zealand Privateers have done well in Australia. Robby Bugden is a great competitor and had to work hard for that title and Shawn Giles the year before its not their fault they are Ozzies

Can things seriously get any worse???!!!
Move to Fiji and race there. Things are great 2 new racetracks. Lots of upgrade work at manfield I'm rapt

Only a small group of people read KB posts. We don't actually represent the wider biking community. If this thread wasn't posted what difference would it have made?

[sunhuntin]

for those interested, i took a look at the honda dealer, and dowmans name is still on it... whether he still has an active part in its ownership/management, i dont know. either way, it is still branded as dowman keowen honda.

[Grub]

Only a small group of people read KB posts. We don't actually represent the wider biking community.

Actually ... they do.

Last year one of the racers polled all of the websites asking for MNZ Licence holders to put their name and licence # in the list. He did this to find the largest number of racers in one place.

Appparently KB was by far the largest. I can't find the thread so I don't know how many but the result was pretty clear-cut, KB does represent the views of the majority of racers.

[Shaun]

Actually ... they do.

Last year one of the racers polled all of the websites asking for MNZ Licence holders to put their name and licence # in the list. He did this to find the largest number of racers in one place.

Appparently KB was by far the largest. I can't find the thread so I don't know how many but the result was pretty clear-cut, KB does represent the views of the majority of racers.


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=47538



There it all is GRUB, top of this forum:scooter:

[mstriumph]

...............
Tossers.

that seems to sum it up nicely!

sorry for it, Jimmy - life SHOULD be fair but it often isn't :no:

[Swoop]

The more experienced racers shouldn't be lead into a first corner pile up if they have any sense. If they are in fact quicker they can bide their time and pass through out the rest of the course once the first few corners are cleared.


I reacon Craig Shirriffs should have started of the back but he still would have won and probably gone under 50.
(Edit: He was in the 49's in two races)
IF the "BEST" riders are in fact quicker, why do they need to start from the front of the grid?
The V8 Touring car races have a "reverse grid" order.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by slowpoke
You're joking right? If Brian Bernard is doing so much for the sport then why is it at such a low ebb? At the last North island Nationals round I went to, on a fine day, there were only about a dozen competitors in the Superbike class, 2 of which were from Oz, and 2 guys were on seriously outclassed machinery making up the numbers so to speak (no disrespect meant) leaving a grand total of 8 reasonably serious competitiors from throughout NZ.

Brian is fostering overseas riders not NZ riders.
Brian isn't fostering anyone they pay to race
But what is it doing for NZ riders? Seeing how fast someone else is is no good unless you are taught to reach the same level. The bulk of the "prospects" have been watching the same established campaigners Stroud, Clee, Rees, Shirriffs disappear into the distance for years with little new blood coming through to replace them. Sam Smith had to leave the country to improve his skills and Dom Jones/Hayden Fitzgerald have done the same.

We have no riders competing in WSBK or MotoGP or any realistic prospects.
Sam Smith or Jay Lawrence seem realistic prospects.
Be realistic, Sam finished the Oz supersport season in 12th position, a top 10 result was a good finish. He needs to at least win the Superbike championship to have any chance of progressing on to the world stage. I'm not saying it's impossible but he has got some serious mountains to climb. Jay is undoubtedly talented but will once again be forced to leave the country to progress.

We have no live TV coverage and delayed coverage is heavily edited/condensed.
Maybe thay should put all races on the TAB but someones saying they are rigged
In an expensive sport, no TV profile means poor crowds, means poor sponsorship, means fewer competitors, means lower overall standard etc

Our premier championship was won by an Australian privateer.
And New Zealand Privateers have done well in Australia. Robby Bugden is a great competitor and had to work hard for that title and Shawn Giles the year before its not their fault they are Ozzies
I wouldn't have had a problem if Shawn Giles had come over and won, he's a top level factory rider....unfortunately it was more of a tune up for him after coming back from a massive injury. Robby is a definite prospect but he finished 10th in the Oz Superbike champs. Sure it's against factory bikes but Russell Holland nearly pinched the title on a privateer bike in 2006. I don't have a problem with a Coxhell, or Brookes or Stauffer coming over and cleaning up, it's when someone who finishes 10th in Oz comes over and takes the title.

Can things seriously get any worse???!!!
Move to Fiji and race there. Things are great 2 new racetracks. Lots of upgrade work at manfield I'm rapt Only a small group of people read KB posts. We don't actually represent the wider biking community. If this thread wasn't posted what difference would it have made?
That's just it, our road racing scene is trending towards Fiji levels with no signs of reversing the trend. Poorly organised/officiated events like Wanga's (and others apparently) only serve to push us lower as more competitors and sponsors become disenchanted. Even with the upgrades at Manfeild it's hard to believe we once had a round of WSBK there with kiwi riders competing in it and challenging for the title. That's how far we've fallen. Taupo is lousy on a big bike, but at least Hampton Downs looks to be a major improvement.

I would seriously be worried if there was some damage that could be done but realistically things are in such a poor state that it's time for the laundry to be aired and hopefully people will get angry enough to demand/enforce improvemnts.
Change only happens when the pain of staying as you are is worse than the pain of change. A lot of competitors are feeling some discomfort at the moment and only require some unification to make some changes.
Rival Motorcycle Racing League anyone.............?

EDIT: the sad thing about a lot of the above is that all this is occurring during a BOOM in motorcycling, when it's never been more popular. What's it going to be like when numbers drop off.......

[Kickaha]

i have also been a witness in a coroners court on a road race fatality and know full well that this set up would be interesting if it ended up in front of them

So have I, so long as all the correct procedures and paperwork are followed and the competiors are informed of how it will be run there shouldn't be any problems


as for bron getting hit from behind maybe he should buy the sidecar if its fast enough to catch up with his!]

So in your whole career you never got a bad start?

[lurker]

for those interested, i took a look at the honda dealer, and dowmans name is still on it... whether he still has an active part in its ownership/management, i dont know. either way, it is still branded as dowman keowen honda.


Daryl drives the Dowman/Keown honda red crewman and Jeff now has a new crewman and ute sign written Keown Honda,it takes time to fase out when buisnesses end partnerships.Shows how observant you are especially re:comment about shrubs/trees that werent touched/cut down around motard track.
GREAT DAY AYE !!!!!!!!!!!!!ESPECIALLY MOTARDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sunhuntin]

Daryl drives the Dowman/Keown honda red crewman and Jeff now has a new crewman and ute sign written Keown Honda,it takes time to fase out when buisnesses end partnerships.Shows how observant you are especially re:comment about shrubs/trees that werent touched/cut down around motard track.
GREAT DAY AYE !!!!!!!!!!!!!ESPECIALLY MOTARDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why then is the building branded with dowmans name? i go past there every day to and from work. go take another look at the building itself, not just the trucks.

[GSVR]

I wouldn't have had a problem if Shawn Giles had come over and won, he's a top level factory rider....unfortunately it was more of a tune up for him after coming back from a massive injury. Robby is a definite prospect but he finished 10th in the Oz Superbike champs. Sure it's against factory bikes but Russell Holland nearly pinched the title on a privateer bike in 2006. I don't have a problem with a Coxhell, or Brookes or Stauffer coming over and cleaning up, it's when someone who finishes 10th in Oz comes over and takes the title.
.......

Shawn Giles broke his pelvis after he'd finished racing here. Or are you talking of another injury?

Robbie Bugden finished 3th in the Australian SB before he took the title here. Andrew Stroud came 4th in the ASB that year.

Why not make NZ a round of the Aus Superbikes at Hampdon downs?

[Ivan]

why then is the building branded with dowmans name? i go past there every day to and from work. go take another look at the building itself, not just the trucks.

Please Please Please remove your singature I thought it was to do with this topic and it made me cringe that poor guy....:Offtopic:

[sunhuntin]

Please Please Please remove your singature I thought it was to do with this topic and it made me cringe that poor guy....:Offtopic:

nup... im envisioning a certain someones member pegged up like that.

edit: besides, if i have ta look at tits and pussy from you guys, then a bit of cock and balls isnt bad. just tick the box on your side to stop all nudity from appearing.

[Mastaphata]

Hi again,i know im just the newbie on here but have been reading this thread with great interest.I was hoping for some response from riders in the know as to my thoughts on who should be held accountable to this farce.Its my understanding that in all forms of motorsport in this country its the Clerk of Course or Stewards of the day to make sure the rules are enforced.Should the question now be put to M.N.Z of the ability of the C.O.C and steward on the day as it seems to me they were to gutless to enfoce the rules

[slowpoke]

Shawn Giles broke his pelvis after he'd finished racing here. Or are you talking of another injury?

Robbie Bugden finished 3th in the Australian SB before he took the title here. Andrew Stroud came 4th in the ASB that year.

Why not make NZ a round of the Aus Superbikes at Hampdon downs?

You're absolutely right re Bugden/Giles, Garry....all that "crack" has finally had an effect on what's left of my brain, pity it was sooner rather than later.

The Oz Superbikes have an on again/off again relationship with Wanneroo in Western Australia as it is so expensive to travel across the country, Hampdon Downs may well be a cheaper option, although obviously still expensive. Having seen them in action in WA it's an awesome show, be great to see 'em here on what looks like a better track.

[McJim]

Remember the names of the petty unsporting cheating bastards and then out them when you're rich and famous.

Vengeance is best served cold.

[GSVR]

Before the years out I wanna say sorry to James for posting off topic on his thread.

Stuff like this distracts you from your racing and subliminally wears you down over a period of time or if your Craig Shirriffs it probably makes you more determined.

Good luck with the Nationals next year. Your effectively racing your first year against guys that have all been around like forever so the results your've got so far are pretty impressive. Just remember one DNF takes about 3 wins to catch up. Ride consistantly and you will be surprised. Just my 2cents.

[merv]

Remember the names of the petty unsporting cheating bastards and then out them when you're rich and famous.

Vengeance is best served cold.

Mate it this something Tim Shadbolt could help with by putting an ad in the papers or something? He'd be a friend of yours by now wouldn't he?

[jellywrestler]

You're joking right? If Brian Bernard is doing so much for the sport then why is it at such a low ebb? At the last North island Nationals round I went to, on a fine day, there were only about a dozen competitors in the Superbike class, 2 of which were from Oz, and 2 guys were on seriously outclassed machinery making up the numbers so to speak (no disrespect meant) leaving a grand total of 8 reasonably serious competitiors from throughout NZ.

Brian is fostering overseas riders not NZ riders. this is very dissapointing. brians team over the years has featured many kiwis shirriffs, dennis charlett karl morgan etc. trouble is they move on to individual rides where someone can afford to pay them more than brian and his team. brians bought a lot up to speed and then lost out when theyre there. bernard racing has the backing of yamaha and they want results. brian who is a personal friend could'nt see any riders that had the potential to be front runners whom didn't already have good rides and so chose to import some. great for the sport really as these guys set something to aim for both on our tracks and also often give us an indication of where we'd fit in overseas, help others with set ups and often our locals link up overseas with these guys to further their careers. brian and kc bernard provide us with a wonderful professional side to the sport. please respect them more. also ask brian for a place on his team and/or some coaching too, remember he was a top rider and could be at the beach with his family now instead he's putting together the biggest and most proffesional team we have here, the hours and money this team put in are incredible.

We have no riders competing in WSBK or MotoGP or any realistic prospects.

We have no live TV coverage and delayed coverage is heavily edited/condensed.

Our premier championship was won by an Australian privateer.

Can things seriously get any worse???!!!



long live bernard racing

[Toast]

Another rule change this year I didn't know about was the Grid for the second race in each class was based on Qualifying not your finish in the first race. So if you qualified bad and get up through the field for a good result in race 1 you have to do it all again in race 2.

No, you got a new grid spot for the second race based on your first race...at least for me in Formula Wanganui.

[GSVR]

No, you got a new grid spot for the second race based on your first race...at least for me in Formula Wanganui.

Thats for that. I thought that was how it was run. So if someone didn't actually improve there grid position or went backwards then their starting grid position was probably fairly close to the mark.

If thats the case then if you have a DNF in the first race you start off the back.

[GSVR]

long live bernard racing

People are looking for some answers about what happend this year. Was it all the officials doing or did others have input?

Who did the officails talk to before deciding to change the rules?

I see it as just common respect. The reason stated was safety. Whats unsafe about Glen Williams starting off the front of the grid?

Haven't the riders that got denied positions closer to the front lost the opportunity for there sponsers to get seen on the TV coverage?

[Mastaphata]

I still feel questions need to be asked on the ability of the clerk of course and the steward as to their ability to enforce the rules

[huck farley]

I still feel questions need to be asked on the ability of the clerk of course and the steward as to their ability to enforce the rules

Good call mate. I'll second that!!

[roadracingoldfart]

Hi again,i know im just the newbie on here but have been reading this thread with great interest.I was hoping for some response from riders in the know as to my thoughts on who should be held accountable to this farce.Its my understanding that in all forms of motorsport in this country its the Clerk of Course or Stewards of the day to make sure the rules are enforced.Should the question now be put to M.N.Z of the ability of the C.O.C and steward on the day as it seems to me they were to gutless to enfoce the rules


At the risk of repeating myself heres how i see the chain of command.......

The club askes MNZ for a permit under the rules set down by MNZ.

MNZ approves the permit and issues it to be in accordance to the MNZ rules as were set out by the permit application which are set out in the entry regulations we all sign as accepting.

The club advises the entrants of the rules as set down by the permit issued by MNZ.

The riders turn up to attend a compulsory riders brief to ask questions and have any relevant subseqeunt regulations /track proccedures announced.

Any further subseqeunt regulation changes made alluding to altered weather / safety issues or whatever must be announced at a further compulsory riders briefing to notify all of the relevant changes.

Its clear this proccess was NOT followed so in my eye its a case of the club that attained the permit from MNZ, DID NOT follow the rules as set down by the permit MNZ issued so MNZ has been wronged by the permit not being adhered to.
MNZ MUST come to the fore and hold a hearing / De-brief as to why the rules of the permit were not followed and the effected riders must be notified of any outcome.

What MNZ does in the way of punishment or whatever MUST also follow a very strict set of guidlines and thats why we all belong to MNZ.
They represent us the riders not the clubs pockets or reputations.

Cheers Paul
TEAM CANBRACE RACING.

[James Deuce]

Wanganui is the jewel in MNZ's road-racing crown. They're not going to censure the Wanganui organisers for making it up as they go along.

When are you guys going to learn? Road-racing in NZ isn't about organising events for riders to compete in so spectators, both on-site and through TV, can watch and enjoy. It's an old mates network. The riders and spectators are just irritants. This seems to be a model that has become entrenched throughout the world where a few make money, the racing is boring, and if the wrong person looks like winning we'll just dock some points for an historical rule infraction.

If you want fair and entertaining racing, buy a pocket bike and race it against your mates up and down a quiet cul-de-sac.

[White trash]

At the risk of repeating myself heres how i see the chain of command.......

The club askes MNZ for a permit under the rules set down by MNZ.

MNZ approves the permit and issues it to be in accordance to the MNZ rules as were set out by the permit application which are set out in the entry regulations we all sign as accepting.

The club advises the entrants of the rules as set down by the permit issued by MNZ.

The riders turn up to attend a compulsory riders brief to ask questions and have any relevant subseqeunt regulations /track proccedures announced.

Any further subseqeunt regulation changes made alluding to altered weather / safety issues or whatever must be announced at a further compulsory riders briefing to notify all of the relevant changes.

Its clear this proccess was NOT followed so in my eye its a case of the club that attained the permit from MNZ, DID NOT follow the rules as set down by the permit MNZ issued so MNZ has been wronged by the permit not being adhered to.
MNZ MUST come to the fore and hold a hearing / De-brief as to why the rules of the permit were not followed and the effected riders must be notified of any outcome.

What MNZ does in the way of punishment or whatever MUST also follow a very strict set of guidlines and thats why we all belong to MNZ.
They represent us the riders not the clubs pockets or reputations.

Cheers Paul
TEAM CANBRACE RACING.
Thankyou Paul.
I'll be sure to forward you Paul Pav's reply if I get one.

Also, to the guy who's jumping up and down about how much respect Bernard Racing deserves, I used to respect the man totally.

[scracha]

Rival Motorcycle Racing League anyone.............?


Now that isn't a bad idea. On the balance of comments I've heard and from what I've witnessed, MNZ are pissing road riders off big style.

[Kickaha]

Now that isn't a bad idea. On the balance of comments I've heard and from what I've witnessed, MNZ are pissing road riders off big style.

I understand some Off road Motorcycle clubs have done this but I really doubt it would happen with Roadracing

[Billy]

Having followed this thread for the last week I have found it amusing that when the officials decide to change the rules mid meeting,Suddenly it becomes firstly Stroudys fault and then when that doesnt pan out. Further down the track somehow it becomes Brian Bernards fault.I guess if you take into consideration the huge amount of their lives they have dedicated to roadracing both locally and representing their country and all over the world taking risks most of us wouldnt dream of just to make a mark on the world stage.I could go on for hours about the exploits of these guys and a number of other Kiwis who have endured huge amounts of pain and suffering to get where they are now and Im sure if they had been at Wanganui on the day ,They also would be blamed for what happened.It appears to me another case of tall poppy syndrome.The fact is ,The officials made the decision not them and I doubt if anybody who has posted on this thread was offered a front row grid position when they qualified 12th would turn it down,In fact over the following 2 days at the Taupo roadrace spectacular I had a number of people tell me they had grid positions they didnt deserve and I noticed not 1 of them turned it down and nobody complained about it.If there is a problem on the day there is a due process to be followed that in most cases will rectify the problem and it doesnt include this website!!!Furthermore regarding an MNZ inquest,An appeal has to be lodged within 7 days as I understand it.Also on the subject of Bernard racing using overseas riders it should be noted that a few years ago when Brian opted to use young local riders because none of the front runners were available it backfired on him big time as some of his bigger sponsors withdrew support due to lack of results and as this team is run as a proffesional outfit it struggled to survive at an acceptable level and there were ongoing issues with riders commitment and ability too meet their commitments within the team.Add to that the fact that Yamaha NZ (Yamaha AUS) Have input into rider recruitment and you will see why the team operates as it does.While I dont completely agree with everything they do Brian & K C put a huge amount of time and effort into that team every year and I know for fact about 4 weeks ago they had a garage full of racebikes and no riders due to circumstances beyond their control.One thing that is obvious to me is.If enough whingers piss them off and they pull the pin the grids at National level will be a lot poorer and the whole scene would be a lot less proffesional.Moral of the story:If you got a problem on the day,Do something about it right then through the riders rep and if that doesnt work then lodge an official protest/complaint with MNZ,Blaming other riders and team managers on this or anyother website will neither change or achieve ANYTHING.Cheers Billy

[White trash]

Thanks for your comments Billy. For the record, we did try and complain to the riders rep, however the race officials neglected to name one in riders briefing. When we enquired as to who the riders rep was, not one of the race officials could tell us, they announced it over the pits PA over an hour later. I also have lodged an official complaint with MNZ, I eagerly await their reply.

As to who I'm trying to lay blame on, and the origial complainant, you might want to show me where I blamed any rider or team for what happened. The organisers on the day are to blame for the late "rule change", however due to circumstances on the day, it's pretty obvious it was at someones instigation. For what other reason would they staunchly support a rule they made a fuss of in riders briefing, then minutes befoe the race change the rules? I've read an email from Brian which essentialy states that his riders were faster than the rest of us (they mostly were) and they deserved those grid positions (they didn't, they failed to qualify)

As an excercise, let's chuck the jandal on the other foot.

Wanganui, 2008. The Sadowski brothers and Mr Jones ride (uncomfortably) in a far from perfect qualifying session, but derserve a hard earned second row position. Go to take their spots on the dummy grid to find that Glen Williams, Jimmy Mair, Neil Martin, Carey Briar and David Lees have filled the second row, the organisers "just decided" that in the name of "saftey" these guys were better off towards the front and the official Yamaha team would need to be bumped back a couple of rows.

Who the hell would be jumping up and down on the grid calling everyone a pack of wankers? Would the decision be overturned? Most probably.

While we're on the Andrew Stroud issue, I actually believe Andrew would have happily taken his original 12th spot on the grid and ridden his arse off to get up the front.

[rwh]

Just out of curiosity, how is the rider's rep chosen? Presumably by an election of some kind, otherwise they wouldn't be properly 'representative'. Does the announcement not happen immediately after that?

Richard

[scott411]

a riders rep is normally someone who gets given a job, they used to call for volenteers or nominations at riders breifings but the silence is often deafining, when i steward major motocross meetings i try to get someone who is not riding, but has a good veiw of the sport, and normally from outside the area.

it is the clerk of the course (as club rep) the Stwerd of the meeting (mnz rep) and the riders rep that makes the call to change rules,

if anyone has a problem with it, contact mnz, or the steward, or stump up the fee to appeal it,

[Storm]

People are looking for some answers about what happend this year. Was it all the officials doing or did others have input?

Who did the officails talk to before deciding to change the rules?

I see it as just common respect. The reason stated was safety. Whats unsafe about Glen Williams starting off the front of the grid?

Haven't the riders that got denied positions closer to the front lost the opportunity for there sponsers to get seen on the TV coverage?

So if I have this right-you are saying that although WT and other got shafted, they should just bend over and take it for the team and be happy to do so?

Thats a bit much

[Billy]

Sorry if you took my comments personally Jimmy,They were not directed at you,Rather the direction this thread had taken and the fact that the finger was clearly being pointed in the wrong direction and that nothing was going to be achieved by what was being stated on this thread.A point for you to take forward from this point is to never take no for an answer as long as youre sure youre right,I know from personal experience some of those officiating at Wangas this year are not frightened to try and bullshit there way through a problem they have created cause they know not many people keep up to date with the rule book and in some cases the people are new and arent quite sure themselves.I had an incident late last year at a meeting where 3 or 4 things were handled badly by those officiating in the period of 1 race.At the end of the race I rode straight to race control,Parked my bike against the wall and sorted the problem right then and there.Sometimes it can be that easy sometimes not,But it sure as shit aint gonna get sorted on this forum,Yours Billy

[steve74]

we are only seeing one side of this story, assuming that all the facts given in the first thread are correct then this is a true shame. to me this is not the fault of any rider, nor any team, or MNZ for that matter.
Someone made the decision, under pressure or influence from those with the big cheque books?.....maybe?
Either way I think MNZ should step in and ensure it dosnt happen in the future. The riders deserve a formal explenation if nothing else!!

as for "done in the interests of safety". - How is sending riders out in the rain pushing hard to qualify when the grids were pretty much pre allocated safe??

my hats off to those boys that did the wet qualifying!!

[sunhuntin]

as for "done in the interests of safety". - How is sending riders out in the rain pushing hard to qualify when the grids were pretty much pre allocated safe??

my hats off to those boys that did the wet qualifying!!

thats a damn good point.
and honestly, who truly thinks racing is safe anyway? theres a good chance of a pile up no matter where on the grid or skill level a rider is placed.
racing is risky no matter what, and that is half the thrill of it.

[Cleve]

thats a damn good point.
and honestly, who truly thinks racing is safe anyway? theres a good chance of a pile up no matter where on the grid or skill level a rider is placed.
racing is risky no matter what, and that is half the thrill of it.

agree and indeed what could be more dangerous than a slower rider getting too ambitious late braking into the first corner and taking out the faster rider in front?

[jellywrestler]

Having followed this thread for the last week I have found it amusing that when the officials decide to change the rules mid meeting,Suddenly it becomes firstly Stroudys fault and then when that doesnt pan out. Further down the track somehow it becomes Brian Bernards fault.I guess if you take into consideration the huge amount of their lives they have dedicated to roadracing both locally and representing their country and all over the world taking risks most of us wouldnt dream of just to make a mark on the world stage.I could go on for hours about the exploits of these guys and a number of other Kiwis who have endured huge amounts of pain and suffering to get where they are now and Im sure if they had been at Wanganui on the day ,They also would be blamed for what happened.It appears to me another case of tall poppy syndrome.The fact is ,The officials made the decision not them and I doubt if anybody who has posted on this thread was offered a front row grid position when they qualified 12th would turn it down,In fact over the following 2 days at the Taupo roadrace spectacular I had a number of people tell me they had grid positions they didnt deserve and I noticed not 1 of them turned it down and nobody complained about it.If there is a problem on the day there is a due process to be followed that in most cases will rectify the problem and it doesnt include this website!!!Furthermore regarding an MNZ inquest,An appeal has to be lodged within 7 days as I understand it.Also on the subject of Bernard racing using overseas riders it should be noted that a few years ago when Brian opted to use young local riders because none of the front runners were available it backfired on him big time as some of his bigger sponsors withdrew support due to lack of results and as this team is run as a proffesional outfit it struggled to survive at an acceptable level and there were ongoing issues with riders commitment and ability too meet their commitments within the team.Add to that the fact that Yamaha NZ (Yamaha AUS) Have input into rider recruitment and you will see why the team operates as it does.While I dont completely agree with everything they do Brian & K C put a huge amount of time and effort into that team every year and I know for fact about 4 weeks ago they had a garage full of racebikes and no riders due to circumstances beyond their control.One thing that is obvious to me is.If enough whingers piss them off and they pull the pin the grids at National level will be a lot poorer and the whole scene would be a lot less proffesional.Moral of the story:If you got a problem on the day,Do something about it right then through the riders rep and if that doesnt work then lodge an official protest/complaint with MNZ,Blaming other riders and team managers on this or anyother website will neither change or achieve ANYTHING.Cheers Billy
a well thought out response from a sportsman. good on ya!
spyda

[Nasty]

so has anyone done anything .... it was not the organisers but the clerk of course and the steward who make these decisions ...

This means a complaint needs to go to MNZ ... the organisers put on a fantastic day wtih "well organised" structure for the clerk of course to run the race. Any supplementary rules or changes should be communicated and in this case do not appear to have been done.

So is anyone actually complained or just moaning on here .. which is rather less effective?

[Kickaha]

Any supplementary rules or changes should be communicated and in this case do not appear to have been done.

So is anyone actually complained or just moaning on here .. which is rather less effective?

Any supplementary rules have to be published with the entries and aren't subject to change on the day, they have to be forwarded with the permit application for the event

I complained to the organising club last year along with a few others about the running of the event and none of us was given the courtesy of a reply

I think you will find WT has sent something off to MNZ and possibly to the club as well

[Nasty]

Any supplementary rules have to be published with the entries and aren't subject to change on the day, they have to be forwarded with the permit application for the event

I complained to the organising club last year along with a few others about the running of the event and none of us was given the courtesy of a reply

I think you will find WT has sent something off to MNZ and possibly to the club as well

Thats good to know about the regs.

I hope that the formal complaint has happened .. as it is a complaint and I did not think an APPEAL - the only way something can be done is if they are actually advised formally. If they don't respond I would personally follow-up or advise them of an expected response date so that they know to take it seriously and that there are answers being sought.

Cheers

[gav]

so has anyone done anything .... it was not the organisers but the clerk of course and the steward who make these decisions ...

Neither the clerk of the course or the steward would've decided on the rule change without the insistence of either a team or a rider. I'd suggest that it was something along the lines of "a wet qualifying session without any wet practice being deemed unsafe". Why all entrants couldn't be notified before qualifying started, that dry practice times would count, is a mystery, but maybe an empty track during "qualifying" wouldn't have been a good look?

[Nasty]

Neither the clerk of the course or the steward would've decided on the rule change without the insistence of either a team or a rider. I'd suggest that it was something along the lines of "a wet qualifying session without any wet practice being deemed unsafe". Why all entrants couldn't be notified before qualifying started, that dry practice times would count, is a mystery, but maybe an empty track during "qualifying" wouldn't have been a good look?

How about I say it was not at the descretion of the organising committee. is that plain enough ... something like that is on the Clerk and the Steward .. what I was asking was if anything was being done other than moaning on here .. that was all.

[k14]

Reading Gareth Jones's report here (http://www.aus-superbikes.com.au/xtremema.nsf/6e7929353ac5e7c2ca256fe8007b498c/196bb861e80352d5ca2573c500796a0a!OpenDocument) he says


Finally the weather appeared to be clearing, so the bikes went back onto slicks, we hoped for the last time. But no, as the Classic bikes headed for the dummy grid, the session before ours, the heavens opened and the rain came teaming down, enough so that we were rushing to clear the pit area to make room for the river running through it !! We decided to leave the bikes and sit this session out. We weren’t going to be going any faster in these conditions.

I wonder if all riders were actually in attendance at riders briefing and paying attention?

[RCV]

Hi, You ask a sensible question and the answer was yes they were. During the briefing we were 1st of all told that the gentleman talking declared himself to be 'the biggest arsehole in motorsport' and if they felt anyone was behaving in a manner he did not like or displayed an attitude towards an official that was felt to be inappropriate would be going home immediately - zero tolerance were his words. Fair enough I thought. Following on from that we were then told new riders (me) would have a 4 lap familiarisation - this was NOT PRACTICE - or QUALIFYING. Next we would have a PRACTICE - this was made clear that this was exactly what it was PRACTICE ONLY. So find your way, try some lines and see how deep you can brake etc. and then stick the best of it together and run off some timed laps during QUALIFYING. We were then told that if for any reason we dont do QUALIFYING we would be starting from the back of the grid.They then of course changed that instruction without us the riders knowledge. Incidentally we were running around changing tyres ourselves as well to be set up as best as we could for qualifying, WE just didnt know there would be an option to use our earlier times.

I've only added this information due to the nature of your suggestion to help clarify for you. As a side issue, I found that a guy who qualified slower than me in both sessions we shared was 2 rows further foward on the grid - go figure that. Thank you to my laps.com for the info.

Cheers





Reading Gareth Jones's report here (http://www.aus-superbikes.com.au/xtremema.nsf/6e7929353ac5e7c2ca256fe8007b498c/196bb861e80352d5ca2573c500796a0a!OpenDocument) he says



I wonder if all riders were actually in attendance at riders briefing and paying attention?

[DEATH_INC.]

Look at the big picture and the future of the sport.

.

Don't f**k it up and have these riders the last overseas ones we ever see again.

Is this the problem? Why do we hafta change the rules just so we can get some Aussies here? How about some more professional well organised meetings so they'll want to come? Get crowds, get prizemoney and they'll come....
And at the end of it all, what about Jimmy and the others? You must know the boy has talent, and with a good grid placing may be able to learn a bit and compete on level footing. What about helping the new guy from NZ that with a bit of time may well be up there fighting it out with Bernards team and Stroudy etc?
Yes, look at the big picture and the future of our sport
Just as a side note, you don't see 'em fucking with the grid positions at the V8's do ya?

[suzuki21]

I would like to welcome all the overseas riders to New Zealand. Its great to see them here, and the nationals should be interesting.
Bernard racing hasnt replied to any of these posts, they are obviously busy trying to win rather than feel sorry for themselves, slag everyone off etc.

[Drew]

Bernard racing hasnt replied to any of these posts, they are obviously busy trying to win rather than feel sorry for themselves, slag everyone off etc.

Oh the irony:zzzz:

Not sure who you think is feeling sorry for themselves, I know for a fact Whitetrash will only be more determined in light of recent events.

[White trash]

Interesting report that Kirk, thanks.

I like the fact that the esteemed Mr Jones' entire Yamaha team couldn't manage to change the wheels on the R6 during the deluge yet myself, a VERY pregnant Riff raff and Kickaha (with no GSXR skills at all) could.

So ask I the question again, who had prior knowledge of the "rule change"?

I'm not bent outta shape about this folks, I know the outcome can't be changed and there's actually no way of righting the wrongs. I just want everyone to know what actually goes on.

[DEATH_INC.]

I would like to welcome all the overseas riders to New Zealand. Its great to see them here, and the nationals should be interesting.
Bernard racing hasnt replied to any of these posts, they are obviously busy trying to win rather than feel sorry for themselves, slag everyone off etc.
Be interesting if it was them that got put back......

[White trash]

I would like to welcome all the overseas riders to New Zealand. Its great to see them here, and the nationals should be interesting.


Completely aggree! It's fantastic to see overseas riders competing here and lifting the level of our sport.


Bernard racing hasnt replied to any of these posts, they are obviously busy trying to win rather than feel sorry for themselves, slag everyone off etc.

Actually, mr anonymous, I don't feel sorry for myself in the slightest. The person I'm slagging off is whoever changed the rules OUTSIDE THE SPIRIT OF THE SPORT without consultation of the riders or even the non-existant riders rep.

I actually have the support of three of New Zealands current top Superbike riders, another top contendor for this years 600 Sports production title and the bloke that's going to cream the F3 field.

So you know, Mr Bernard is noteably absent in his support of off the cuff rule change issue. What a coincidence.

[Burrt Badger]

Rules/Supp regs are in place for ALL competitors. What the Wanganui club did and the three Stewards at the event allowed to happen is unacceptable!!!! The riders rep MUST be elected at the riders briefing. Rule 3-14.
Do not blame Brian Bernard or Andrew Stroud etc, they are competing and they push the rules right to the limit, as you would expect. Blame the people who allowed the decision to be ratified. THE STEWARDS!!!
Don't blame MNZ, it is not their fault,. The supp regs as anounced at riders briefing, were not applied. That comes down to the Stewards not enforcing the rules!!!!!!!!!! NO ARGUEMENT, NO DISCUSSION.

[Kickaha]

Don't blame MNZ, it is not their fault,. The supp regs as anounced at riders briefing, were not applied. That comes down to the Stewards not enforcing the rules!!!!!!!!!! NO ARGUEMENT, NO DISCUSSION.

Doesn't the stewards authority come from MNZ as the stewards are their representatives at the meetings?

Because if that is the case then MNZ have to share the blame

[Doogle]

This sort of story has been happening in the New Zealand road race scene since at least the early eightys.

[koba]

So you know, Mr Bernard is noteably absent in his support of off the cuff rule change issue. What a coincidence.

Is he on kiwibiker regularly?
Has he read this?

Just asking.... :dodge:

[Drew]

Were the rules changed for just that meeting? I'll being riding like an arsehole ,(more like an arsehole than normal at least) during practice to ensure a good spot on the grid just incase.

Stay out of my way people, I've never even seen the track!!!

[Shaun]

Were the rules changed for just that meeting? I'll being riding like an arsehole ,(more like an arsehole than normal at least) during practice to ensure a good spot on the grid just incase.

Stay out of my way people, I've never even seen the track!!!



It's a bugger having an honest opinion some times is it not Drew:laugh:

[Drew]

It's a bugger having an honest opinion some times is it not Drew:laugh:

Shit yes, but it doesn't matter what gets said on here anyway, it'll get taken from context and used as ammo for rock throwing.

[Fatjim]

Well most of the tossers on this site throw like girls anyway.

[Drew]

Well most of the tossers on this site throw like girls anyway.

Bwahahahaha, the funniest thing about saying these kinda things, is the people we think are tossers wont for a second considder themselves to be such.

It is only my opinion here, and I'm sure I fall into the category of wanker to many, but I can freely admit it.

ps, you're not a tosser Jim cos your hands are huge and your willy I'm told is...

The mechanics make it impossible.:Pokey:

[Fatjim]

Thast ok, I've been married almost 15 years now. The urge has completely left me.

[skelstar]

The urge has completely left me.
Thank God for that.

[FROSTY]

Ok can I ask a question then ?
In the situation again -what SHOULD those with the rightfull first row start positions have done?
I would have thought getting off off the bike, hand raised in the air would have been a start.
NOT having a go at trashy or codgy because I dunno either.

[Fatjim]

seize the day, and all that.

[Pex Adams]

Thast ok, I've been married almost 15 years now. The urge has completely left me.


seize the day, and all that.

Ok - if the urge has left, wouldn't seizing the day be a contradiction then???:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[enigma51]

Got a response today

Talk about one liners

I will give the shorter version

Fuck off we dont care

[Kickaha]

Got a response today

Talk about one liners

I will give the shorter version

Fuck off we dont care

At least you got a reply, when I wrote to them in 2006 I didn't get anything back

[enigma51]

At least you got a reply, when I wrote to them in 2006 I didn't get anything back

They must have gotten the address wrong and sent it to me

[Deano]

Thank God for that.

OMG - DUDE - did you become a born again a few weeks ago or something - how's that for spotting ?

[Deano]

Got a response today

Talk about one liners

I will give the shorter version

Fuck off we dont care

Is that good enough ? No. What can be done about it ?

Or once again, is it a case of not making any enemies round here......

I'd rather do my fighting on the track personally.

[Fatjim]

Is that good enough ? No. What can be done about it ?

Or once again, is it a case of not making any enemies round here......

I'd rather do my fighting on the track personally.


Well lets get those rocket launchers fitted for Boxing day this year. Then you pop one into the clerk of course's (or whatever it is) box when you do your practice laps.

[Deano]

rocket launchers.

You mean Heinekin molitof cocktail ?:innocent:

[DEATH_INC.]

Ok can I ask a question then ?
In the situation again -what SHOULD those with the rightfull first row start positions have done?
I would have thought getting off off the bike, hand raised in the air would have been a start.
NOT having a go at trashy or codgy because I dunno either.
Good point Frosty, what are you supposed to do in a situation like this? What is the correct procedure? Obviously waiting till after the race is too late, isn't it?
Who knows???? Someone must....

[White trash]

Got a response today

Talk about one liners

I will give the shorter version

Fuck off we dont care
MNZs response was more along the lines of "Thanks for your email, forwarded it to the appropriate department, don't call us, we'll call you."

All good, I'm over it. Time to move on and make some noise at Paeroa.

[Kickaha]

Good point Frosty, what are you supposed to do in a situation like this? What is the correct procedure? Obviously waiting till after the race is too late, isn't it?
Who knows???? Someone must....

The correct procedure is going through the race officials who it appears were uninterested in sorting it out


MNZs response was more along the lines of "Thanks for your email, forwarded it to the appropriate department, don't call us, we'll call you."

Which means they'll toss it in a corner and hope you forget about it

[Patch]

Use the facts and embarrass the assholes in the public arena.

Nobody wants their name in the headlines for the wrong reasons - just make sure the complainant isn't a racer nor ever intends to race, given this little country and its tall poppy syndrome an all.


Use the facts against them, the truth hurts when used effectively.

[Nasty]

Use the facts and embarrass the assholes in the public arena.

Nobody wants their name in the headlines for the wrong reasons - just make sure the complainant isn't a racer nor ever intends to race, given this little country and its tall poppy syndrome an all.


Use the facts against them, the truth hurts when used effectively.


If you decide to go this route make sure that you are naming the right names ... I have seen things said here which do not look at the right people.

[Drew]

If you decide to go this route make sure that you are naming the right names ... I have seen things said here which do not look at the right people.

This is not the right public arena, it's a large community for sure, but getting a newspaper or broadcast is the best way to get info to the masses. Sticking to the facts is essential though, one wrong name or untruth will discredit the complaint.

[Patch]

This is not the right public arena, it's a large community for sure, but getting a newspaper or broadcast is the best way to get info to the masses. Sticking to the facts is essential though, one wrong name or untruth will discredit the complaint.

eggs-zack-a-ree

[Sollyboy]

Take the organisers to small claims court , claim back tyre cost ,entry cost,lost income, loss of potential prize money etc etc , somthing will stick

[Jerms]

This sort of unfair sports play sounds familiar.

I used to play basketball and when trialling for the first team at a new club none of the players from last year had to turn up...they were in in just because the coach knew them. How was I supposed to prove that I was as good, if not better, than them!?

So at the end of the day you tell them to stick it :bleh: and find someone else to play for...or another sport...

Or you just take it on the chin, think "screw them" and race (in your case) your best! :jerry: