Tales from the Garge.

[Motu]

You all like to get out in the garge and work on the bike,right? It's so much fun cleaning,add some mods,doing maintenance - but sometimes things don't work out as planned,things go wrong,your life is destroyed.Imagine if the Garge was your whole life,you spent over 70hrs a week in it over 6 days,the chances for things to go wrong has just increased by the power of 100.Just thought I might share a few of my daily challenges - Life in the Garge.

Five months ago a 1999 Mazda Familia failed to proceed at the gas station and I went out to have a look - an Eastern European woman,not too good on the English.The clutch was totaly fried,you could put it into gear without even a noise - this thing was going nowhere.She wasn't too pleased with my diagnosis,so she got the Motu treatment - I just walked off and left her to it.Finaly she came around and we got the car in and did the clutch job - ready the next day to the tune of about $650.

Last week she came in again,not very happy - the clutch has just failed again,and she wants it repaired under warranty.I go up the road and have a look,yep,same again...in less than 5000km.I can't drive it so get it hauled in,and we pull the clutch.Totaly fried as before - I want some backup on this,so call in my supplier who has a look,takes it away and sents it to a 3rd party for an independant report.They find no fault in the clutch,a quality Daiken unit,and no instaltion fault,and the flywheel had been machined of course.Pure abuse by the customer - but she's not wearing this off course,it's all my fault,she's been driving for 70yrs and doesn't ride the clutch - blah,blah,blah.How do I put it across to her that there is no warranty on a component that has been abused,that the only fault is in the driver? in short,the stupid bitch can't drive! I gave her a hard line on friday and she went away steaming,but knowing she was the fault of the clutch failing.

My supplier can see what a bind I'm in,and being a good customer of theirs they want to keep - they have given me a free replacment clutch,and a free flywheel machine.Now,what shall I do,take the hard line,fit the clutch and charge her full price,standing up for my rights,I have all the facts behind me to take it all the way - but is it worth it? All the shouting and arguments,word gets around...even if we go to the Small Claims Court,she may actualy win her case as they are on the comsumers side - like,they might say I should have given her driving lessons on the new clutch.Or do I just fit it for free and get her out of my shop - making sure she knows that if the clutch fails again in short order we won't honour a claim a second time.

I stand to loose at least 5 hrs labour and a tow charge just to keep some customer quiet when they are in the wrong.Someone has to pay for this - do you wonder why you are charged so much for repairs?

[James Deuce]

That truly sucks. I once stood up for a Wairarapa garage when Heather's grandmother attempted the exact same course of action. Her driving style was 6000rpm, select 5th in the Proton Saga and use the clutch to adjust speed. This next bit sounds terrible, but her attitude was affecting the servicing of the farm machinery, so we recorded her heading to the Victoria League one morning. The mechanically sympathetic would faint if they heard it. A quiet word to the husband of one of her mates who heard it sorted the situation, but I don't know how you're going to get around this one. You could turn her business away in furutre I guess, but the word of mouth thing is pretty tough to beat.

If people bagged their doctor as much as they bag their mechanic, we'd have no health system.

[pete376403]

Surely automatics were made for people like this?

[Mr Skid]

If she's been driving for 70+ years, then she won't have that many friends left to bad mouth you to. Those that she does have will probably not have cars or be too senile to remember what she said. And if she's an immigrant from Eastern Europe, then most of the people that would listen to her are back in the old country and still driving 2 stroke Skodas.

If you've already taken a hard line with her about this, maybe you could offer her 1/2 price labour to get it fitted?

You've already got the clutch supplied and flywheel machined for free so unless she knows about that, you could make out that your offering to provide a new clutch free of charge, and discount on labour, without accepting any liability.

I don't know what the costs of labour + machining + parts would be individually, but it could be a way to show a healthy discount on the invoice so it looks like your being really generous in your treatment of her.

You could also make the offer on the basis that it was full and final settlement of any claims.

You might lose a couple of dollars in the process, but it would stop it going to small claims, therefore reducing your total possible liability, and the downtime of having to attend the dispute process. More importantly it would get her out of your shop.

[Stinger]

I think that no matter what she'll bad mouth you now. If you do her any favours then your just going to encourage her I reckon. If it goes to the small claims court then the worst that can happen is that she doesn't have to pay for the labour... pain in the arse, but most people don't end up pursuing it that far.

Being the behaviourist that I am, I think you should slap her the next time she comes in... that'll make her think twice. :bash:

[Jackrat]

Like Stinger says,the damage to your rep' has already been done.
If you have the supplyer backing your claims then you shouldn't lose in SCC.
If you accept this persons future bussiness she will try it on again.
Let her go mate,she's going to do the same thing again,it'll be your fault next time as well,she's just not worth the drama.

[Frankie]

tough one....

how ever youve done nothing wrong and its not your fault... you did what you were supposed to and got paid for it...

Its like you installing a new clutch into my Prelude... the very next day I go to Meremere and thrash it.. if the clutch fails then its my fault cause i didnt let it settle in a bit

[Antallica]

Yeah chances are if she's that much of a dick she won't have that many friend to tell anyway. You have the report of the supplier etc. and you stand by that. Fit the new clutch and charge her full price, but just to cover yourself make sure you briefly explain to her how to use it properly.

Peace out brother.

[Paul in NZ]

This all sounds depressingly familiar.

My Father had his own auto repairs business for years and was done over a thousand times by people like this. They don't mean to be (sometimes) but they are trouble with a capital T.

Perhaps there is a middle way? You are already in trouble right? Why not (as someone else suggested) do the labour at a discount 'provided she takes 1 driving lesson with an independant instructor' ie the local AA guy or something like that.

That way it's not you blaming the parts or your work and you get an independant point of view?

If it all goes pear shaped again, it will make you look good in court as well...

Paul N

ps. It goes the other way. Just before we went away this weekend, Vicki thought there was a problem with the front disk pad on the Magna and we were a bit PO's 'cos they were done not that long ago and we thought perhaps the shop (OK I'm lazy but they needed grinding too) had stuck in cheap pads. The guy put it on the hoist, whipped off the front wheels and measured everything, it was fine, gave it a squirt with some brake cleaner and gave it back to Vicki. "How much?" she asked fully expecting to pay something.. "Nothing this time Vicki. You guys have a good break eh!" Vick protested but the guy would not take a cent! "You will be back he laughed"

OMG - Is he being decent or does he know something about our car.....

[Posh Tourer :P]

If ya got the clutch free, charge her labour only, but warn her it wont happen again...

[scumdog]

Get her to pay for what she owes and GET RID of her!! :ar15:

Tell her to never darken your doorway again, customers like her you don't need, if you are feeling big hearted you could give her the replacement clutch you got for free and tell her to take her car to another gargre!

[MOTOXXX]

Yea sounds like a bit of a tough one there man.
Its always good to never burn your bridges in bizniz and elderly people have nothing better to do other than gossip over a game of bridge. Trust me....waikanae is the retirement capital of nz.

Maybe a solution could be as people said above.
ring her up and say
look mrs_____ we had the clutch tested by an indipendent party and found no fault. The instalation was done correctly. We realy value your custom here at _____ motors. As a gesture of good faith, we will fit you with a new clutch and fly wheel (which has cost you nothing) if you are prepared to pay the two hours labour (or how ever long it is) and we can still continue a working relationship.

Most of the time it can be enough to sway people back over and keep them happy with going the extra mile.

either that or just leave her a length of rope in her car as a hint. :shake:

[vifferman]

Some good comments here. :niceone:

The only one I would make (not to help you make a decision, just because) is that she probably has very little disposable income, and is freaking out at the thought of having to get the car fixed again.
Not your problem, Motu; just an observation.

[Stinger]

Yea sounds like a bit of a tough one there man.
Its always good to never burn your bridges in bizniz and elderly people have nothing better to do other than gossip over a game of bridge. Trust me....waikanae is the retirement capital of nz.

Maybe a solution could be as people said above.
ring her up and say
look mrs_____ we had the clutch tested by an indipendent party and found no fault. The instalation was done correctly. We realy value your custom here at _____ motors. As a gesture of good faith, we will fit you with a new clutch and fly wheel (which has cost you nothing) if you are prepared to pay the two hours labour (or how ever long it is) and we can still continue a working relationship.

Most of the time it can be enough to sway people back over and keep them happy with going the extra mile.

either that or just leave her a length of rope in her car as a hint. :shake:


That's actually really good advice, that's practically straight out of "how to win friends and influence people" and would probably have the best result... now if only you could work someway of getting satisfaction into it :devil2:

[FROSTY]

Motu mate I feel for ya.
Ive been in the same boat
Reality is its gonna cost ya the same amout of time -possibly a heap more if she takes ya to court--if she's an old biddie with nowt else to do......
Ya see where Im coming from -better just do it and get her gone.
BUT>
Due to her concerns about your workmanship -Insist she has a totally independant inspection done on the clutch after its done.
NO inspection-NO CAR.
You have then covered ya ass over further comebacks.
Dunno if itll work for you --but it worked for me.

[Motu]

I haven't had to deal with her yet,but she was in today,quiet and not aggressive.I think I'll do a 50/50 as most suggest,she has to know she is at fault and that I am bending over backwards by doing either the clutch or labour free...it's not often the cards are all stacked in my favour with these sort of disputes and I'm loath to back down...It was finished dead on 4.30 today,I'll deal with her tomorrow.

One thing I've found with immigrants is that they are loyal,once you have earned their trust,you have it for life,and you have their friends come along too.One Eastern European who I helped in the early days still comes back to me even now he's out of my area - he is now a lawyer,most likely always was but unable to practise,he apprieciates that I spared the time to see to his needs when he didn't know our country.He doesn't bring all his work to me,but I think he wants me to know I'm his prefered mechanic.

I don't what happened to the work today - for the last couple of mths the industry has been quiet,we have been starting the day with 10% booked and picking up work as it comes in,not what I like,kinda scary,and you tend to take on anything that comes in the door.It's monday and I've got damn near the week booked out already,8 cars in the shop and 4 in the lock up yard,one a Grand Cherokee,not the sort of thing I want on public display overnight.

[Motu]

Ok,so we did the 50/50 deal,fee clutch and she paid for the labour and towage,so I don't loose out on this one - I better give BNT some more of my custom eh? That was bloody good of them to do that,they had no reason to back down on this,same as me.Sometimes it feels like we are one big happy family in the motor trade,helping each other out...anyway,thanks Garry from BNT Onehunga.She knows she was at fault and got off lightly - in fact she came back with a bottle of wine - 'my husband he makeah this his self,you likeah' that's as much an admission of guilt as I'll get.So she takes off up the road in 2nd,slipping the clutch the whole way! She knows there will be no 2nd time.

Another one tried a comeback today - on friday we did a rear main seal on a Isuzu Mu,when we split the bell housing a couple of litres of engine oil came out,so the clutch was soaked too.I flipped the rear main out with my thumb nail,incorrect intalation at some stage.A bill of over $1100,and today he's back with it still leaking oil from the same place.I'm kinda nervous as you'd expect,but it's just a leak from an oil connection -I make him pay for that one and he's a bit disapointed.

The Jeep Cherokee is an intermitant no start - I haven't done much diagnosis for the last year...when my mother got ill I just flagged that stuff away,you need a clear mind and I didn't really have my brain in gear at all.Being American it has a 16 pin OBD2 connector,but being out of Japan it is not OBD2 coming out,my scanner is not talking to this one.We have fuel pump but no injector pulse or spark in the no start condition - these two are usualy powered up by the same relay so I start looking for a common power source for ign and injectors.I'm lucky on my first try - the ASD relay...auto shut down relay...it cuts out power to the ign and injectors,it's the same rely as the wiper delay relay...a quick swap proves my diagnosis.Half an hour tops,I'm not usualy this lucky...but I have to charge more than half an hour labour for such work,you don't find a fault on an unfamiliar car without a little experiance and hard won knowledge to back you up.The relay come stomorrow,let's hope it really is the fix.

[James Deuce]

All Good.

Please to hear about a bunch of happy people, especially you. Wasn't expecting that, you cliquey XLV riding grease monkey.

Nice work.

[Blakamin]

All Good.

Please to hear about a bunch of happy people, especially you. Wasn't expecting that, you cliquey XLV riding grease monkey.

Nice work.
Maybe he's been drinkin the "wine" :shutup:

Dont spill it on the cherokee, Motu... it'll take the paint right off... maybe the metalwork too!

[Edit] Not so bad, wish ya had of told us it was a red!... not quite as caustic as the mediterranean whites... best mates dad made some beautiful ones... still dont spill it tho, it might feast on ya concrete

[MOTOXXX]

all's well that ends well.
You've handled the situation very well and it shows with the bottle of wine. She knows that she is at fault and her and the husband are in the mindset that nice mechanic giving them something for nothing.
Hope more work comes your way from the result.
:Punk:

[Dr Bob]

I'm sorry I missed this the other day, have been busy at work. But I guess my advice would have been *not* to go through with this. If she has the same problem in another 5000k then you may have set a precident. What do you do when she comes back? According to the consumer guarantees act she is accorded the same rights on the replacement as she had on the first one, if she is truly doing something bad with her driving then she will be back. However, there are mitigating factors. You have the original reports and you have advised her that it was her unique driving style that caused the premature failure of the clutch. I suggest that you record your conversations in a diary (as an annotation in your workshop schedule should be sufficient) and these can be provided as evidence. Otherwise, if you lose the conversation then your actions alone can provide the basis of determining your fault.

[Motu]

The Consumer Guarantees Act - was this a National or Labour doing? National I think,dunno why they would put into action an act that would disadvantage businesses so much.I spend my days not thinking about doing the best for my customers,but thinking....if I do this is there some way they could turn it around against me? I will walk away from people in difiuclties rather than enter the minefield of Comsumer Rights.

She's not coming back,she knows that much!

[The Pastor]

When she comes back for the third time, cut her brakes, old people dont survive minor accidents to well :whistle:

[MOTOXXX]

yea if she came back with another fried clutch it would be a bit sus.
probly doesnt help having all that traffic up there with all the stopping and starting. took my old type r integra to auk and got stuck in easter traffic. i sweat my left leg was huge after 2 hours on the motor way :Pokey:

[FzerozeroT]

can you get temperature stickers, in the food industry they're used tosee iffoods thaw out during shipment, if you stuck one to the back of the flywheel/clutch plate that had an activation of ? 300 ? degrees then that would be evidence enough for court, and also maybe help explain it to her.

[Motu]

This one happened about 5 years ago,it was so over the top it was even funny at the time...

Nearly every year around sept time we get a bit quiet and I tend to take on jobs I shouldn't.One day a guy who worked part time for me rung and asked if we would take on a job he wasn't prepared to tackle at home - turbo's on a Nissan 300ZX.I didn't see any reason why not,but told him to tell the customer we would do it around other work,it was going to cost a shit load and I wanted my money.The customer was ok with it,he knew it was a big job and had the money to spend.

If you've ever seen under the bonnet of one of these things you would know we had a task on our hands - there is a hell of a lot of shit jammed into a small space,no room to put a hand into anywhere.Right - no way was I losing on this shitter,we were going to charge for every last minute and every hose clip,no matter what! So I set my mechanic to the task - 12 hrs later we had the turbo's in our hands,sent to my turbo guy and one was totaled and a new one fitted,the other took a rebuild.While we had the engine out it was a good plan to fit a new water pump,cam belt and tensioners (one tensioner was $650 alone!) all the water and fuel hoses under the inlet manifold were replaced too.Then we put it back in and fired it up - clouds of smoke as the turbo had filled the exhaust with oil,we ran it for about an hour,say 3 20min runs,to bleed the cooling system,check turbo oil feeds,remedy a few water and oil leaks,cycle the cooling fan.It was running well,but a bit noisy in the valve gear,common in the modern OHC motor.Time for the road test,and out of the shop it goes,right on my time allocation and parts costing - success....


20mins later my mechanic walks back in the door...???....um,where's the Nissan? ''it's at the top of the hill,broken cam belt'' WTF!!!! rant,rant,scream and stamp my foot,this can't be happening! possibly the worst thing that could go wrong ever,and it has! Lucky I wear slip on work boots or I would have strung myself from the roof beams.I'm shattered by this,but life goes on - we get the thing back in and start the investigation as to why it broke it's cambelt.The inlet camshafts have seized - I do several midnight oil days working on this myself,we have other work to get through as well.I strip it down to the block and find we have no oil feed to the heads - they have a restrictor jet in the block.This is an import,and every joint is smeared thick with orange silicon sealer,we never touched any of this,but I think some has got into the engine and blocked these fine passages.We take the motor out and fit it to a stand - I crank it over fast by hand and nothing comes out of the jets - after a bit of work we get some success...but I'm backing out now,I want this thing to go the a reconditioning shop for a total strip and tank soak with open oil galleries,there is too much of a risk with this orange crap everywhere inside.The customer says - but then they will find this worn and that worn and it'll cost mega bucks....so he finds a used engine.

It turns up in a trailer - known history,a good runner that was rear ended,gauranteed.Ok,so in it goes,transfering all the new stuff onto the replacement motor.This one fires up and all seems good - but no oil pressure...SHIT!!!! I do some more stupid hours of my own time,but just can't get the oil pressure up,it's pumping,I can get it for awhile,but then drops away.I'm racking my brains on this one,but can't figure how a motor with good oil pressure can loose it (I done the basics of course,relief valve etc eh) Time to call in my back up.

The modern motor car has got just so damn complicated that us poor mechanics are all out of our depths,at some stage - but we have the internet! Just as us motorcyclists can talk about our bikes,us mechanics can talk about cars - The iATN (international automotive technitions network) was the first internet forum I joined,there are over 40,000 techs in over 120 countries all helping each other fix cars - wow,that's what it's all about eh,a community of mechanics,millions of years of experiance,every possible problem has been seen,sometime...I get emails every day,and check on the site everyday to see if I can help anyone with a problem.So I put in my request - why can't I get oil pressure in my Nissan...in a couple of days I have many replies,and one sets me on the right track.Nissans have a very small clearance between oil pickup and the bottom of the sump,a very small dent can block it.And yes,the sump does has a small dent,it's been on a trailer of course.


So we pull off the sump - We aren't going to pull the bloody motor out again,so drop the suspension and front Xmember and a couple of hundred other doo dads and pull the sump.Inside I see the mark where the pickup has been touching the sump,damn,that guy was right after all,right on the money! I measured the dent against the original sump...2mm was all it took to block the pickup.I'd say atleast 50% of the cars on our roads have dented sumps,sure it can cause problems with oil presure,but this dent was almost not visible.So on goes the original sump,suspension in and lets get this damn thing out of my shop!

What the hell to do to recover the lost time on this one? I charge for all the parts of course,but some serious labour has gone into this job,not all of it recoverable,none of it my fault,but it has to be something I can track and account for.The total cost for the job was about $9000,including the replacement motor,which he paid for,$3000 I think.And still,I lost about 40hrs of chargable time on it.My only consolation is that my mechanic rarely takes all his holidays,I have to force him just to take a week off - A weeks holiday pay for a holiday he never took.I have kept the old motor and turbos,they are still under a bench somewhere - I was hoping he would go away and forget about them,then I could sell it and recoup some money.But he's still a regular customer! He knows and aprieciates what I went through on the job,he still brings this piece of crap back for WoFs,servicing and any other small job,he likes and trusts me and my approach to work,he says he must come and pick up the old motor some day,so I daren't sell it.Bugger! I just hope it dies a good death one day,by which time 300ZX twin turbo motors will be worthless!

Shit happens eh?

[badlieutenant]

suk story well written motu. might book mark this one for the next crap day when a reality check is needed :D

[toads]

The Jeep Cherokee is an intermitant no start - I haven't done much diagnosis for the last year...when my mother got ill I just flagged that stuff away,you need a clear mind and I didn't really have my brain in gear at all.Being American it has a 16 pin OBD2 connector,but being out of Japan it is not OBD2 coming out,my scanner is not talking to this one.We have fuel pump but no injector pulse or spark in the no start condition - these two are usualy powered up by the same relay so I start looking for a common power source for ign and injectors.I'm lucky on my first try - the ASD relay...auto shut down relay...it cuts out power to the ign and injectors,it's the same rely as the wiper delay relay...a quick swap proves my diagnosis.Half an hour tops,I'm not usualy this lucky...but I have to charge more than half an hour labour for such work,you don't find a fault on an unfamiliar car without a little experiance and hard won knowledge to back you up.The relay come stomorrow,let's hope it really is the fix.

hmm, intermittent fault, I hope it is the relay, this is one of the reasons Pete stopped working in a garage and chose to opt for fleet maintenance instead, people have no idea how difficult it can be to accurately dianose something, particularly an intermittant fault. I get it wrong sometimes too, I was diagnosing a computer fault over the phone that for all intents and purposes seemed to have a faulty monitor, I asked if it had been unplugged at any stage, and was told absolutely not, seeing as it was still under warranty I suggested getting the shop it was purchased from to look at it and get it done under warranty, it turned out the monitor had been unplugged and it was only partly plugged in, nothing wrong with it, the owner was pissed off with me, for putting her crook, I was pissed off with her for not telling me it had been unplugged. The shop of course charged her. Such is the reality of dealing with the public and their machines!

[Motu]

Diagnosis,yeah,a tricky one - no one wants to pays some one to waste their time and money getting nowhere.One way that I've used a few times is to sell diagnosis time in advance - say,we will scan for codes and clear,check basic tune and sensors,for $*,if we haven't found the fault by then we will do $** more diagnosis and report again,of course we do not guarantee success.They don't like that,but I don't like spending 16hrs and charging 1 hr for the repair,the customer is happy with that though,but not the reverse.Some Mitsubishi's lose all drive,the trans selects no gears - some trans's were pulled for repair until it was found to be a blown interior light fuse,of course the fuse box only says interior light,not trans power.Embarrassing for the first guys to find out before it became common knowledge.

Intermitents are the worst,I like it when they come in on a tow truck,although sometimes they start straight up and we have to start all over.When they cut out it's a mad scramble to find what is wrong before whatever electronic component cuts in again.Gone are the good old days when we could look at something and say,yeah,she's fucked mate.

I lost my original storage program for my DSO when I went to XP,I can't transfer files,and my new data storage was lost with the reformat.I'll start again with some interesting things and post them on a thread,to show what we can see and what can go wrong.I need to start my self training again,without any grounding in electronics I have had to learn these thing to suit my brain as it stands,I think in pictures and my DSO and graphing meter show me what things are happening inside these unfathomable electronic boxes.

The Jeep was repaired with a $30 relay,I jacked up some outlandish charges to try and pad out my 1/2hr to a couple - but he would of been charged 3 or 4 times that at the Jeep agents and been happy with it,but would say I was a rip off artist who didn't know what I was doing if I charged the same...aaah well.

[avgas]

Also there are those illusive 10 and 12mm spanners and sockets. The times the tool kit, socket set etc falls down and makes a fucken shambles on the floor.
I remember my younger days when i had a few paddock bashers i was fixing up - Note: dont cross the terminals of a battery with a spanner thats in you hand
:mad: :beer: :doctor:

[toads]

keep them coming motu ( when you get the time and inclination), I'm reading these avidly, my eldest boy is looking at doing the first year preliminary course at polytech next year in automotive trades, you know how teens are, think they know everything!, well this thread is very handy in proving experience is the best teacher. Pete has all but lost touch with his trade as far as modern cars go, he's been doing fleet maintenance for the past 15 years, he prefers it, the not havign to deal with the public thing and the time to sort things out properly without deadlines.

[Motu]

It's not a trade it pays to stay out of for too long these days,we are all struggling to keep pace and if you slip off it's hard to get back on - one of the reasons I did my own thing,it was either get out or take the next step.Fleet maintenance is good,but I always did it for the large companies in the 70s,and I hated working for them.If there is one thing I specialised in it was sole charge positions - I've run 3 auto workshops in the old service station days,a machinery outlet (chainsaws to tractors and trucks) and a rental car/hire centre,with no one to fall back on for advice or just to sound out problems with I've had some experiance just winging it,doing it my own way with some interesting results.I've got a few stories to tell over the lunchroom table!My ultimate dream would be to have no financial worries and have a country workshop next to the house,where I could keep my local area running,fixing everything that came to my door,with no small claims,OSH or consumer rights to worry me,bliss...

[Motu]

She's BAAAAAACK!!!!!! :rofl:

She trusts me....we are doing the clutch AGAIN,for a real price,and she is trading it for an auto.

And I will get another bottle of wine - DEAL!

[vifferman]

Oh Motu - that is... I dunno... classic? Mental? Predictable? :rofl:

[Big Dave]

If people bagged their doctor as much as they bag their mechanic, we'd have no health system.

Been a while since you've been to hospital then - the health system will eventually fail (some would say it already has) in this country unless a new model of funding is embraced.

Some Non elective surgery is rated on a points system of how much pain you are actually in, before you qualify. Helloooooo!

I bagged the doctor plenty!

[MOTOXXX]

haha i was wondering why this thread got brought up again.

good to see youve sorted it motu.

[James Deuce]

Been a while since you've been to hospital then - the health system will eventually fail (some would say it already has) in this country unless a new model of funding is embraced.

Some Non elective surgery is rated on a points system of how much pain you are actually in, before you qualify. Helloooooo!

I bagged the doctor plenty!

I'm in or at a hospital every two to three months. My wife started her Nursing training at 17. She's half way through a Masters in Nursing. I have a reasonable handle on the NZ health care system. My Aunty has spent the last 10 years as a contract CEO restructuring hospitals like Mildura in Australia, so I've a reasonable handle on the Aussie system too. NZ is lucky to have the Hospital system it does, given its dispersed and tiny population, and the inability of the population to accept that there is a cost to decent medical care.

We should be bagging our Doctors at least as much as we do our mechanics. For some reason Doctors are accorded a level of respect usually reserved for pop stars and Saints., not the level of respect earned by professionalism and results.

[gav]

300ZX dented sump, no oil pressure, shit, we had a 300ZX come in the other day, knocking away, no oil pressure.....hmmmm
Man, we have a classic, a female customer who 9 (yes 9) months ago we did a alternator repair on keeps ringing and coming in complaining the alternator is faulty. Looked up the records and seems , yes about 9 months ago, an alternator repair was indeed done. Before I started, but didnt look like a new alternator, merely a repair to the existing one. Anyway everytime we saw the vehicle everything seemed fine, alternator charging, battery OK, would start on the key everytime. Eventually we thought what the hell, chucked in a good S/H alternator, charged her $180 all up and sent her on her way. She's still complaining, claims the car loses power and dies when the lights are used. Last time we had to go and recover the car, she'd left it on the side of the road, we get to the car, find someone has tried to break in and wrecked the door lock, return to workshop and get more tools to break in. We had the key, eventually we get in, sure enough car started on the key and drive it back to workshop. Ended up fixing the lock and kept the car in the yard for a week. Started first time every morning in heavy frost. Fixed the door locks, and alternator charging fine, battery good, even with lights on, heater on, wipers on, radio on etc. She eventually turned up on Friday, we'd spent close to two hours on it including bringing it into the shop. Anyway send her on her way, no charge for work. Sure enough Monday morning, she rings and apparently its died :brick: One of the mechanics had told her if it died again, don't try and start it, ring us straight away, so she has. I'm going to send him to check it out but I'm sure it will start fine, but the bugger has had the flu and hasnt been at work this week. Oh well.....

[Ixion]

..
We should be bagging our Doctors at least as much as we do our mechanics. For some reason Doctors are accorded a level of respect usually reserved for pop stars and Saints., not the level of respect earned by professionalism and results.

M'self, have more respect for most mechanics than most physicians. Most, there's exceptions both ways.

By my reckoning, a physician just does what a mechanic does. Except the mechanic has to deal with a wider variety of models.

[Big Dave]

I'm in or at a hospital every two to three months.


yep - you understand - apart from being an outstanding motorcycle action photographer, the co-pilot is a 20+year Cardiac Theatre nurse specialist with an MBA and is now working on her doctorate - we came to NZ for her to a redesign on a major health organisation, only to find they couldn't afford it - or her.

Not talking quality of care - which is the same - just the system - compared to OZ - it isn't very good. You pay a tax levy in OZ - but a GP visit is free.

Your Aunty would probably know my Mrs.

[Big Dave]

M'self, have more respect for most mechanics than most physicians. Most, there's exceptions both ways.

By my reckoning, a physician just does what a mechanic does. Except the mechanic has to deal with a wider variety of models.

Hmmm countering the god complex.
Count one or two amongst my acquaintances - but I think of them more as well qualified plumbers when I need something done. Helps when i'm on the piss with them too.

[Motu]

300ZX dented sump, no oil pressure, shit, we had a 300ZX come in the other day, knocking away, no oil pressure.....hmmmm
Man, we have a classic, a female customer who 9 (yes 9) months ago we did a alternator repair on keeps ringing and coming in complaining the alternator is faulty. Looked up the records and seems , yes about 9 months ago, an alternator repair was indeed done. Before I started, but didnt look like a new alternator, merely a repair to the existing one. Anyway everytime we saw the vehicle everything seemed fine, alternator charging, battery OK, would start on the key everytime. Eventually we thought what the hell, chucked in a good S/H alternator, charged her $180 all up and sent her on her way. She's still complaining, claims the car loses power and dies when the lights are used. Last time we had to go and recover the car, she'd left it on the side of the road, we get to the car, find someone has tried to break in and wrecked the door lock, return to workshop and get more tools to break in. We had the key, eventually we get in, sure enough car started on the key and drive it back to workshop. Ended up fixing the lock and kept the car in the yard for a week. Started first time every morning in heavy frost. Fixed the door locks, and alternator charging fine, battery good, even with lights on, heater on, wipers on, radio on etc. She eventually turned up on Friday, we'd spent close to two hours on it including bringing it into the shop. Anyway send her on her way, no charge for work. Sure enough Monday morning, she rings and apparently its died :brick: One of the mechanics had told her if it died again, don't try and start it, ring us straight away, so she has. I'm going to send him to check it out but I'm sure it will start fine, but the bugger has had the flu and hasnt been at work this week. Oh well.....

The shoe is on the other foot with me at the moment - the charge light is on atleast 50% of the time in my Pajero at the moment,but everytime I test it it's charging fine...if I pull it and give it to my sparky he'll say there is nothing wrong with it,it's a twin battery model and it might take sometime to run down...I need a positive fail before I get involved.How did the 300ZX low oil pressure work out? was it the sump? I've had a few Nissans in with that since the Fairlady screwed me.Pulled a Falcon sump down once using a stud gun and dent puller,cheaper than pulling the motor.

Wot's the latest tale? This year has been full of drama - I usually get one big one that takes me to the cleaners every year,but this year it's just been continuous with jobs going wrong,not a good year for me at all.But here's one that's been a success today.The day before Xmas we had a diesel Hi Ace in with a very bad engine knock - you may remember me talking about it with 750Y...it was just an injector and we had them reconned and it was sweet.Well,almost....it dropped in power big time,and unusualy for a diesel the was no smoke at all,this is how we diagnose diesels,by the smoke colour,but it had none at all!This is only a back up vehicle for the owner and the lack of power is no biggie,but we had it in for something else a couple of weeks ago and I said I would look deeper.3 weeks ago and yesterday was the first day we looked at it.We checked the injector timing of course,changed fuel filter and all the obvious stuff,I had been talking to my diesel guy about it and he said it must of been overfueling with the worn injectors,and how it was running now was it's normal state.Well,that gets hime out of the hole,but doesn't help me...of course we had touched nothing other than the injectors,but something was wrong.So we have been winding up the fuel screw on the pump and have got power back,with black smoke! So now we just have to reach a compromise between power and smoke,we can get it into 4th gowing up the hill,before it was in 2nd.So did someone wind the fuel screw out,or are we compensating for a worn pump? The latter I think,as we have been looking after this thing for 10yrs and certainly haven't touched the pump.

[_Gina_]

In my opinion (yup, I am full of them : )) the real difference between an automotive engineer and your doctor is that when your doctor tells you to take 'these pills' which should resolve the problem that you are experiencing and when you still have the problem, generally people will with no complaint take whatever crap your doctor tells you with a smile and some respect for how hard it can be to get it right from some vague description you have given him/her. They will then be charged another fee & probably try something else which costs more money with no idea whether it will resolve the problem or not.

Automotive Engineers are not afforded this luxury from the public.

[Motu]

Doctors can bury their mistakes....

[_Gina_]

and other doctors will not, when asked, give any indication that a mistake has occurred....nor slag the other doctor concerned....

[gav]

The 300ZX? Havent seen it since, no loss, we told her prob need a full rebuild or second hand motor, look at around $5k, her response? Classic, " ahh thats OK, I've been saving a bit, the Lions were in town last weekend so made about $3500, and I'm about to head off up to Aukland!" Ohh, well, guess its legal now, huh? :yes:

[myvice]

Hey Motu, we have a 300zx that is smoking like a top-dresser coming in for little things every 2 months or so...
As you'v had the fun once I'll give him your number for the turbo work...
No need to thank me, just trying to help. :devil2:

Doc's V Mech's
They get it wrong, you die, too bad!
We get it wrong, you die, we go to jail!
We charge aprox $60 per hour.
They charge more, lots more!
We HAVE TO stand by our work.
They hide behind ther peers.

I would love to have a Dr bring his car in and say "Well, I have no clue what is wrong with it. Put some moterup in and call me in a week, thats $75, thank you."