Out of the dark and into the world...

[Kittyhawk]

Just been thinking, there is alot of people in the world who are shy, and hide themselfs from the world...I know these people shine from a distance.

Im starting a project with my brother...and he is the subject. He lacks social skills, dosent have many friends and struggles with the basics like reading and writing. He's 22.

In a group situation he is very quiet and only talks when asked a question. I plan to make him sociable and develop these skills. Bring him out of his dark corner of the world, and watch his confidence grow.

Do you find yourself running out of things to say when you meet someone for the first time? feel like your'e being judged on what you look like or how you say things?

If anyone else wants to learn how to develop their people skills further, and be more confident flick me a pm...I'll see if I can help.

[merv]

Are you sure he's not just happy the way he is?

[Kittyhawk]

Are you sure he's not just happy the way he is?

He has asked me to help him. :yes:

[Subike]

I wish I had access to that sort of help as a younger person, would have made a huge difference in my life.
50 years on and I still have the same thngs you discribe in your blog.
Merve, you are right, he may be happy where he is at the moment, like I use to be, but to be encouraged out, apreciated not critiszed, accepted not rejected, to be able to in public, have inner confidence, good vibes and self love, these thing need to be taught to some of us who for reasons unknown dont have the natural talent of comfortable conversation .
Its hard to believe you are a good person when you have been trod on rejected or critiszed by your peers, family or work mates.
And its very easy to put these things up in a forum, its safe!

[0arbreaka]

Get him a job in retail or something similar. The people skills will come very quickly as he will have to deal with the general public as part of his job. Worked with me.

[merv]

OK thanks for your comments, me being an extrovert that has no problem with this I do know a few like this who express the view that they don't want to be more out there and think the world should appreciate their listening skills more. If your Bro' has asked for help then great and I hope you get the result for him he wants.

[DMNTD]

Get him a job in retail or something similar. The people skills will come very quickly as he will have to deal with the general public as part of his job. Worked with me.

Get him to get himself to get a job would be far more beneficial not only in the short term but longer term too.
Good luck to your brother...you could always just intro him to me,seems to work :eek:

[Steam]

Kitty, your brother's situation sounds perfect for a psychologist to help out with. (not a counsellor, a proper psychologist.)
They have good strategies for exactly this thing, and they present it step-by-step, at whatever speed your brother is happy with.
It'll cost money, maybe around $120 per session, but if you want to do it right, in a proven and tested way, and set your brother up for a lifetime of good strategies and people-skills, that's the way to go.
See it as an investment.

In something so important to his future I wouldn't rely on a bunch of motorcyclists to suggest helpful things. Rely on someone who does it for a job.

Would you give your most precious and shiniest new Hayabusa '08 to get a complete overhaul to a bloke from down the road who owned a scooter a couple of years ago and reckons he'll give it a go?
Nope, you take it to the professionals. They'll do a good job.
And ignore those people who say psychologists are useless, they don't know anything.


Later Edit: But saying all that, it can't hurt for KBers to suggest things. Just take it with a grain of salt. Heck, some of the people on here reckon Compulsory Military Service is a good cure for mental illness!

[Kittyhawk]

I myself am getting professional help for a few things, and maybe the psycologist is the way to go, for a start he needs to change the living environment he is in.

Living with parents, who do everything for him, teaches him no self worth, he is a product of what he is living in. Im getting him to move in with me, and teach him a different way of life. Nothing extreme like us bikers, but the basics, how to cook, clean, and communicate.

We are close, always have been. May even take him to hypnosis and see how that goes.

The lack of communication comes down to his reading. His conversations are very limited, its almost like he's a cave man in a modern world. He never used to be like this. His reading ability is that of a 10-12 year old.

There is a technique Im working on to get his reading levels up and to read properly, Bigdog suggested working with the limited reading abilites and relating this to music, I am doing just that but slightly different to how he teaches.

Dmntd, I will introduce him to you...:sweatdropcould be interesting hehe

[Kittyhawk]

Get him a job in retail or something similar. The people skills will come very quickly as he will have to deal with the general public as part of his job. Worked with me.

He needs to develop more basic elements to be able to work successfully in the working environment, but yes a customer service based role is what I will be helping him look for in the future.

[fireliv]

Good luck with that! I hope that you are able to help him.

When I met phoenix he was a pretty shy quiet guy (and yes he still is a bit) but I'm a bit of the opposite. I talk to anyone, and basicly just kept talking at him until he talked back. So his social skills have developed so much since his confidence in himself developed further.

I really hope you can make a difference for your bro.

[Steam]

But saying all that, it can't hurt for KBers to suggest things. Just take it with a grain of salt. Heck, some of the people on here reckon Compulsory Military Service is a good cure for mental illness!

[Kittyhawk]

But saying all that, it can't hurt for KBers to suggest things. Just take it with a grain of salt. Heck, some of the people on here reckon Compulsory Military Service is a good cure for mental illness!

It's interesting to see the feedback. :yes:

[98tls]

But saying all that, it can't hurt for KBers to suggest things. Just take it with a grain of salt. Heck, some of the people on here reckon Compulsory Military Service is a good cure for mental illness! :niceone:well i reckon glue sniffers suffer from mental illness, a bit of compulsary service would sort that shit out.I dont know your brother Kitty but being shy and having reading/writing problems doesnt justify a shrink in my eyes.

[Morcs]

Best way IMHO is to get a job, be it part time or whatever in retail.

You soon find yourself rabbiting on at people, hell I even found myself holding conversations in german...

Confidence is the key. There are no other skills as such - or if there are, they are nothing without confidence.

Telling yourself constantly how mega you are does wonders. And learn not to falter when throw flat on your face.

[Kittyhawk]

He can not hold down a job because he lacks the interaction skills to talk to people and having limited language is a barrier to him.

If the boss says something and he dosent know the vocab how can he understand it?

It's back to the basics first before trying to get another job.

[98tls]

He can not hold down a job because he lacks the interaction skills to talk to people and having limited language is a barrier to him.

If the boss says something and he dosent know the vocab how can he understand it?

It's back to the basics first before trying to get another job. Fair call Kitty,shitty suituation really.Good on you for being there for him.All i can say is tread carefully i guess as i know personally what its like to lack some basic skills and when people tried to help it made me angry...read as embarrassed..hence the anger.Good luck and am sure it will work out.Its a fine thing that you do.

[Kittyhawk]

Fair call Kitty,shitty suituation really.Good on you for being there for him.All i can say is tread carefully i guess as i know personally what its like to lack some basic skills and when people tried to help it made me angry...read as embarrassed..hence the anger.Good luck and am sure it will work out.Its a fine thing that you do.

Im passionate about teaching. And for him it will be small steps. I dont want him falling into the deep end and not cope.

I find myself turning my back to the world, most of the time I just want to be left alone. Im happy in my own company. But when Im sociable, yep Im out there lol..

Looking at my little bro I can see it frustrates him, the simple things do, but at the same time he plays on things which my parents cant see. I can see through his bullshit when he does play on it, and he hates that. He even said he's not moving in because he wants mum and dad to do it all for him forever!

I dont intend becoming his mother when our parents pass away. I have my own life, goals and aspirations, he needs some guidance and to find himself, and his purpose in life.

[Ixion]

Does he WANT to be a project? Maybe he likes being the way he is ?

Give me the avowed, the erect, the manly foe, bold I can meet, perhaps may turn his blow! But of all plagues, good Heavens, thy wrath can send, save, save, oh save me from the helpful friend. (apologies to Mr Canning)

[Motu]

Apart from the reading and writing he sounds pretty much like me - and I've been like this for 54 years.Who has a problem with this - him or you? Sounds like your problem to me.

I have few friends,but those I have,have been for most of my life.But I know a hell of a lot of people,and a lot more who don't know me at all.I have always been of the belief that he who talks least learns most....I'm the quiet guy in any group,not participating,but listening and forming my own opinions.

I'm an introvert,and so are my family and my friends....we are all deep thinkers,happy with our own company.A family night at home is us all reading books,content in our own company.

Don't try to make me be like you - I won't appreciate it and will probably avoid your company.This is why I ride alone....it's my space,for me.

[Trudes]

The older I get the less I can be bothered with idle chit chat and am starting to become more interested in silence, I enjoy it actually, sometimes it's nice to just sit in other people's company without having to talk constantly (or have them talk AT you constantly!!) Grumpy eh!:Pokey:

[Disco Dan]

Apart from the reading and writing he sounds pretty much like me - and I've been like this for 54 years.Who has a problem with this - him or you? Sounds like your problem to me.

I have few friends,but those I have,have been for most of my life.But I know a hell of a lot of people,and a lot more who don't know me at all.I have always been of the belief that he who talks least learns most....I'm the quiet guy in any group,not participating,but listening and forming my own opinions.

I'm an introvert,and so are my family and my friends....we are all deep thinkers,happy with our own company.A family night at home is us all reading books,content in our own company.

Don't try to make me be like you - I won't appreciate it and will probably avoid your company.This is why I ride alone....it's my space,for me.

I must agree with you Motu! Sounds like me! Not everyone needs 'rescuing' - something I unfortunately only learnt only a few months ago.

However I know Kitty, and I am sure her reasons are sound and that her intentions are good.

Well done kitty :first:

[howdamnhard]

Kittyhawk,sounds like your brother has some learning difficulties,has he been checked out for dyslexia,ADH etc.Teaching him to read and write is a good start but shouldn'nt he have learnt this at school already?Once he has got that getting a job would be a big bonus as it would improve his self esteem and independence.Good luck with your project ,just tread very carefully.:yes:

[325rocket]

*** just my opinion but …
the first thing you should do is make sure he knows everyone is fu*ked up in some way. When your like this it can be easy to think the world is full of shiny happy perfect people and you don’t fit in.
the best life lesson I ever learnt was everyone is self conscious about something and sometimes the people that look totally together are the most screwed up.
Read the depression thread, it always blows me away how many members here have had issues with depression. Throw in lack of confidence, reading / writing problems, poor interaction skills and bad self image and on some level 99 % of people tick at least a few of the boxes.
I have no idea where you go from there but I think that would be a good start.

[merv]

The older I get the less I can be bothered with idle chit chat and am starting to become more interested in silence, I enjoy it actually, sometimes it's nice to just sit in other people's company without having to talk constantly (or have them talk AT you constantly!!) Grumpy eh!:Pokey:

I never thought I'd see you write this coz you're normally so chatty.

[Trudes]

I never thought I'd see you write this coz you're normally so chatty.

Only with people I like Merv!!:innocent:

[xwhatsit]

Get him a job in retail or something similar. The people skills will come very quickly as he will have to deal with the general public as part of his job. Worked with me.

Hell yes. Restaurant. Did the trick exactly. Not that I'm Mr Party Pants now, and I'm still a core introvert, but I'm perfectly capable (or so I think) of talking crap in relative comfort with other people in a social setting now.

I'm not fussed, really. The only situation it really held me back was with girls; and once you spend some time at university you run into plenty of girls just the same as you :laugh:

[Zuki Bandit]

Kitty, you just described my childhood. Throughout primary school up to just after college everyone labelled me as an intrevert. I wouldnt speak to anyone unless I was confronted with a question and avoiding social situations was my main focus in life. My older brother would force me into situations where I would have to talk and be sociable. As a consequence, most all of my friends are older than me, which is ok by me. Because of his coaching and being forced around more mature people, I know it has made more talkative and confident. I still feel a bit off in crowds, but if my brother hadnt of stepped in, Im sure I would still be "intreverted".

Cheers

ZB

[Kittyhawk]

Kittyhawk,sounds like your brother has some learning difficulties,has he been checked out for dyslexia,ADH etc.Teaching him to read and write is a good start but shouldn'nt he have learnt this at school already?Once he has got that getting a job would be a big bonus as it would improve his self esteem and independence.Good luck with your project ,just tread very carefully.:yes:

Yes you are correct he should have learnt it at school, he went to a psychiatriast once a couple of years ago and they did not give my parents the diagnosis. There's alot more behind the scenes too, I was told hes on an invalids benifit but no one seems to know what the problem is with him. Im going to get to the bottom of it, maybe hes dislexic, or ADH, I dont know. However I will be seeking professional help while he is living with me because he can not think for himself, make decisions or hold a flowing conversation.




Read the depression thread, it always blows me away how many members here have had issues with depression.
I have no idea where you go from there but I think that would be a good start.

Funny you say that, I was the one who started the thread since Im the one who has the problems and yes I've seeked professional help and not afraid to admit I have a problem, and that I am still sick. I tend to face problems head on and HTFU where I can.


Kitty, you just described my childhood. Throughout primary school up to just after college everyone labelled me as an intrevert. I wouldnt speak to anyone unless I was confronted with a question and avoiding social situations was my main focus in life. My older brother would force me into situations where I would have to talk and be sociable. As a consequence, most all of my friends are older than me, which is ok by me. Because of his coaching and being forced around more mature people, I know it has made more talkative and confident. I still feel a bit off in crowds, but if my brother hadnt of stepped in, Im sure I would still be "intreverted".

Cheers

ZB

I dont plan on moulding him to how my personality is, but he has no friends at age 22. I will coach him out of his silence. If he is quiet in conversations its not because he is shy, its because he cant follow the vocab which is a concern. Im glad your brother helped you, I feel I need to be there for my little bro.:Punk:

[awayatc]

Outward bound, might be worth a closer look....
Does wonders for self confidence I've been told...

[scracha]

Good luck to your brother...you could always just intro him to me,seems to work :eek:

But Chris I've met you and am terribly shy and always run out of things to say :cold:

[DMNTD]

But Chris I've met you and am terribly shy and always run out of things to say :cold:
Must be because I'm such an introvert huh?
Oh or maybe it's because no one can understand a word you're saying ya mad bastard! :blink:

[howdamnhard]

It may also pay to have him have a CAT scan in case he has some hidden underlying brain damage.Sorry not trying to be insulting but just look at all possibilities i.e may not be a psychological problem but physical.


[QUOTE=Kittyhawk;1364838]Yes you are correct he should have learnt it at school, he went to a psychiatriast once a couple of years ago and they did not give my parents the diagnosis. There's alot more behind the scenes too, I was told hes on an invalids benifit but no one seems to know what the problem is with him. Im going to get to the bottom of it, maybe hes dislexic, or ADH, I dont know. However I will be seeking professional help while he is living with me because he can not think for himself, make decisions or hold a flowing conversation.

[The Lone Rider]

I was very introverted until I started working in the sound industry as an engineer and technician when I was 17. The drive to do my job well was stronger then my embarrassment of being on stage in front of thousands and having to deal with different crews all the time.

Probably also ended up with me being socially lazy :P

[Kittyhawk]

Outward bound, might be worth a closer look....
Does wonders for self confidence I've been told...

I never thought of that...

[quote=howdamnhard;1365951]It may also pay to have him have a CAT scan in case he has some hidden underlying brain damage.Sorry not trying to be insulting but just look at all possibilities i.e may not be a psychological problem but physical.

Going to go to my GP next week I'll bring that up thanks!!

[thehovel]

Kittyhawk,sounds like your brother has some learning difficulties,has he been checked out for dyslexia,ADH etc.Teaching him to read and write is a good start but shouldn'nt he have learnt this at school already?Once he has got that getting a job would be a big bonus as it would improve his self esteem and independence.Good luck with your project ,just tread very carefully.:yes:

As he said also schools have night classes for adult reading. Watching the news on TV will keep him up with current affairs this gives him confidence. Regards Richard

[Badger8]

As he said also schools have night classes for adult reading. Watching the news on TV will keep him up with current affairs this gives him confidence. Regards Richard

Indeed, plus helps give him stuff to talk about too :niceone:
Found that once i got a real job, you need things outside of work to talk about. I used to keep up with the play on the sports news, found that was a good one. Even though i didn't necessarily watch or follow the sport in question, it gave me a few points of conversation the next day :yes:

[Chickadee]

Goodluck Kitty, nice to see a family member making the time to try and help.

Hope good comes out of your efforts for both yourself and your brother, he obviously needs some assistance to make the step into adult life away from home.

Parents are great, but they can create a lot of problems if you molly coddle your little ones too much.

I still am quite a shy person, I've become more extravert in exterior behaviour in my journey to adulthood - but I'm still the shy person underneath. I think everyone is a work in progress.

[Kittyhawk]

Got a ph call last night from our parents about 2330

Mum was all up and arms about not hearing from either of us, she wanted to know if he made it safely, of course he did, its only Tauranga to Auckland!! and he knows the roads inside out. And I said if there was a problem they'd be informed.

I gave my bro a simple decision, which was what were we going to do about the groceries. Did he want to buy food himself and do all his own cooking or split the food bill and share the cooking. He took his time in thinking about the answer and said he'd split the bill.

When I explained to my parents that I gave him the choice mum was yelling at me saying " share the bill blah blah blah" I said Im not going to tell my bro what's right and what's wrong, its about HIM making decisions for himself.

The conversation steered towards me explaining what next week will be consisting of, that my little bro will be coming out with me to the pub to meet other bikers help out on the learning nights and be around younger people. Dad went nuts at this!! Said "there's more places to hang out apart from pubs and that I should take him to an engleside (not sure of spelling here" I asked him why hadn't he put the time into this and take my bro places "other than pubs" he coudlnt answer because he never does sociable things with him.

I explained to dad that you can go to a pub and not drink and infact when ATNR starts up we'll go to the pub for dinner at some stage (they are VERY against alcohol and pubs etc) I said its my bros choice if he wants to drink or not. His choice if he wants to come along or not, but for the first week I will expose him to my lifestyle and being with bikers.

It's funny because mum and dad were praising a family member about how supportive he was while dad was dying with cancer, and now that dad has recovered he is running him down saying he's an alcoholic has nothing etc.
That hurt me and I felt so angry, they judge people on what they have as assets. Some people are happy just owning a house, family and have a secure job. But no dad sees everyone should be like him, wealthy, lots of properties, and never drink!!

MY parents dont trust me on this at all... in fact they have never trusted me because I do things my way not their way. They dont like me giving my bro freedom, the opportunity to make his own decisions, the fact there is no right or wrong while he is living with me. Sure I'll guide him, but not mother him.

Im going to do my best, to help him, find him a job, and keep him away from my parents. I said to my best mate today "now that my bro is not living there who are they going to try to dominate and control?" Mum hated the fact I said I'll find him a job, her reply was "dont let him out in the city he dosen't know his way around" well he can learn Im here to help him. I think she may be jealous at the fact Im wanting to help him, and if I get him a job, get him back to his old self have friends etc and live a normal life, it will annoy her.

Mum said my bro has to go to the dentist on the 11th back in Tauranga...they are expecting him to drive down visit the dentist for a checkup and come back up to Akl the next day!!!

They are trying to do anything to hold that controlling power over him but Im going to break it.

He even said today "I like it up here Sheryl, I have to think about things alot more and there is no arguing."

ME personally I dont want him returning back to the lifestyle he had. But small steps first. :yes:

[Badger8]

Got a ph call last night from our parents
...Im not going to tell my bro what's right and what's wrong, its about HIM making decisions for himself...
...I said its my bros choice if he wants to drink or not. His choice if he wants to come along or not, but for the first week I will expose him to my lifestyle and being with bikers...

MY parents dont trust me on this at all... in fact they have never trusted me because I do things my way not their way. They dont like me giving my bro freedom, the opportunity to make his own decisions, the fact there is no right or wrong while he is living with me. Sure I'll guide him, but not mother him.

Im going to do my best, to help him, find him a job, and keep him away from my parents...

Mum said my bro has to go to the dentist on the 11th back in Tauranga...they are expecting him to drive down visit the dentist for a checkup and come back up to Akl the next day!!!

They are trying to do anything to hold that controlling power over him but Im going to break it.

He even said today "I like it up here Sheryl, I have to think about things alot more and there is no arguing."

ME personally I dont want him returning back to the lifestyle he had. But small steps first. :yes:

Good on ya Kitty, sounds like you're making some good progress already. Those are little things, but i'm sure for him they are big victories.
And that's exactly the key to breaking his old habits and old ways, get him out of the old surroundings and the old ways of doing things. Getting him to think and make decisions for himself will definitely have him going in the right direction in no time :niceone:

And darn right about the pub, it's just a good place to hang out with a cold brew if that tickles your fancy. Nothing says if you meet your mates at the pub you gotta drink.

My mum was much the same when i first moved out of home, trying to control me from 3 hours away. It took time (and i think when she phoned at 3pm on a wednesday to find me fall-down drunk might have finally severed that cord), but she learnt over time that i was big enough and ugly enough to look after myself (as she had been telling me since i was 10, but never realised it herself).

And it's good to see that he is realising already how much better life can be, and the potential that lays before him! :wari: