Should yummy mummies ride?

[Chickadee]

I've been thinking about us Mummies of kids under age 5 - whether we should be out there on bikes.

If you're a good/safe rider then I don't see much problem in it, accidents can happen whether you are in a car or whether you're on a bike. I think the only difference is that bikers tend to fare worse in the injury stakes because we're not protected by a cage. It's a break from the realities of life, but is it a good passtime for parents of small children?

Feeling mixed emotions about the issue, I know a friend won't let his wife get her learners (kids similar ages to my two) ride, he rides but doesn't want to have her out there in harms way. What are your thoughts on this issue?

[Colapop]

Should Yummy Mummy's ride?

OH HELL YES!!

You go girl!

[DEATH_INC.]

Yeh, nothing wrong wif it, just gotta take a little more care, and that means new dads too, not just mums...you have a responsibility now...

[James Deuce]

Dads are not required in NZ society. Mums are. It is infinitely more easy for a Solo Mum to negotiate life than a Solo Dad.

[NighthawkNZ]

Should yummy mummies ride?

yes...









We are talking about bikes aren't we... either way yes Ride Baby Ride

[slowpoke]

The mum or dad is the one who could possibly get hurt, not the kids, so they can do whatever the hell they like. What are you going to do teach your kids to live in fear?

[Usarka]

Good call slowpoke. I was gunna say that if your raising your kids a certain way then they'd expect you to keep riding and take your chances as long as you were sensible and reduced risk. You cant teach your kids something and practise the opposite.....


but at the end of the day its your decision, not a bunch of hairy bikers. 'Cause you know what they're going to say dont ya.

[justsomeguy]

Yeh, nothing wrong wif it, just gotta take a little more care, and that means new dads too, not just mums...you have a responsibility now...

As the one wheeled wonder says.

Well, I had a conversation with a friends family as we were in a cage, about a friend who rides, this guy is a racer and middle aged with a family.

The people I were with in the car (all very safe conservative types) were shocked that a man with young children would put himself in a position where he could be in danger while having a young family, this extended to any recreational pursuits with an increased risk component. They said such a person is very selfish and should think about his family first.

That is one perspective.

Some people shouldn't think of riding period, people with poor driving sense, the types with lots of dents on their cars caused by their negligence.

However if you are only looking to ride on nice days or simply commute with care then I don't see the problem. I have seen you ride and you strike me as someone with a safe and well balanced attitude towards safety and riding.

So you on a bike is not something that should concern anyone. However by extending this to all younger mum's you are in danger of including those ladies that emulate the "crazy women driver" stereotype, the same applies to men too.

[James Deuce]

The mum or dad is the one who could possibly get hurt, not the kids, so they can do whatever the hell they like. What are you going to do teach your kids to live in fear?
Depends. Like it or not, you have a responsibility to your kids to make sure you do the best job of raising them you can.

Parenting is one of those jobs where nothing is about you.

Personally I think it is massively irresponsible for both Mum & Dad to be riding or for either one to pillion the other parent.

There seems to be a total Goldfish mentality to the repercussions of getting it wrong on a bike on KB. Every time their is a motorcycling related death out there in the real world, there's this big outpouring of false grief (And it is false. If you're not a friend or relative, it's just another sack of water and DNA that won't be in the queue at the checkout) and everyone who rode like a fucking idiot before that person died keeps on riding like a fucking idiot after. Road deaths are an accepted and acceptable norm within our society.

It's many times more dangerous to ride a motorcycle. It isn't safe, you can't ride safe, and you are less likely to be killed or maimed in a car accident than you are in a bike accident. Car accidents get more and more survivable all the time, thanks to things like the NCAP safety programme. You can wear all the gear or none. Hitting a truck dead on is literally that.

But don't let the facts get in the way. I sure as hell don't, but at least be open and accepting of the risk and manage that risk the best you can.

Kids with two dead parents, generally don't do well in life. It's really selfish if you both undertake a dangerous hobby at the same time and suck a Kumara. You've let your kids know that you died doing what you wanted to do, irrespective of how it hurts them if it goes wrong. They're not midget adults, they won't rationalise it or accept it the way you would, and you're not around to tell them any different.

[Steam]

Ride yer heart out. As long as you and your partner are prepared to live with the consequences. If you are the carer for your child or the breadwinner, comprehensive health insurance and life insurance might be a good idea.

[justsomeguy]

Depends. Like it or not, you have a responsibility to your kids to make sure you do the best job of raising them you can.

Parenting is one of those jobs where nothing is about you.

Personally I think it is massively irresponsible for both Mum & Dad to be riding or for either one to pillion the other parent.

There seems to be a total Goldfish mentality to the repercussions of getting it wrong on a bike on KB. Every time their is a motorcycling related death out there in the real world, there's this big outpouring of false grief (And it is false. If you're not a friend or relative, it's just another sack of water and DNA that won't be in the queue at the checkout) and everyone who rode like a fucking idiot before that person died keeps on riding like a fucking idiot after. Road deaths are an accepted and acceptable norm within our society.

It's many times more dangerous to ride a motorcycle. It isn't safe, you can't ride safe, and you are less likely to be killed or maimed in a car accident than you are in a bike accident. Car accidents get more and more survivable all the time, thanks to things like the NCAP safety programme. You can wear all the gear or none. Hitting a truck dead on is literally that.

But don't let the facts get in the way. I sure as hell don't, but at least be open and accepting of the risk and manage that risk the best you can.

Kids with two dead parents, generally don't do well in life. It's really selfish if you both undertake a dangerous hobby at the same time and suck a Kumara. You've let your kids know that you died doing what you wanted to do, irrespective of how it hurts them if it goes wrong. They're not midget adults, they won't rationalise it or accept it the way you would, and you're not around to tell them any different.

Very well said. Spoken like someone with a lot of love for thier kids. It's hard when the world doesn't revolve around us isn't it? Oh wait, it never does, ah....... there's my train pass......wish I had a bike..... :oi-grr:

[McJim]

She asked me the same question this afternoon.

I'll bet you can guess what I replied eh?

She obviously didn't like what I said hence this thread. Heigh ho. :rofl:

[Cache Wraith]

However if you are only looking to ride on nice days or simply commute with care then I don't see the problem. I have seen you ride and you strike me as someone with a safe and well balanced attitude towards safety and riding.


There's another argument that says people who ride on nice days only or are weekend riders are at a greater risk. Less practice and honing of skills.

I say ride on. If you understand how the universe works you know that each day is a (your) creation not a discovery. Take care riding. Wear the gear. Take refresher courses and KNOW that you are safe.

[karla]

I have seen you ride and you strike me as someone with a safe and well balanced attitude towards safety and riding.

So you on a bike is not something that should concern anyone. However by extending this to all younger mum's you are in danger of including those ladies that emulate the "crazy women driver" stereotype, the same applies to men too.

My son is still young, and I've just started riding with the knowledge of the judgement and the weight of thoughts of "am I being self-centred" etc. I think it's important that those of us with children set out on each ride praying to the biker gods to safely return us to them. I won't stop riding, but I will do it with as much care as I can, and hope that others on the road take some care and watch out for me.

How many young parents smoke, drink and indulge in other ways that endanger them and will eventually bring them grief, without so much as a thought for their kids. At least we ride with the awareness that we might not return. Lately I've been thinking that life insurance would be a good idea.

Anyway - I voted "No, mums should go back to the kitchen". I wouldn't recommend to any young mum to ride - how full of contradiction I am! Do as I say, not as I do.

[Ixion]

Is the risk of Mum and Dad , riding at the same time but on different bikes, being simultaneously taken out, any greater than the risk of Mum and Dad, travelling in the same car, both being taken out ? The latter has happened.

One or other riding (ie only one at a time) , I'd think is overall better odds than the both in the same car scenario. Which is of course so common as to excite no comment.

Mum and Dad on the same bike is maybe trusting too much to the Biker Gods. They can be sadistic bastards at times.

[justsomeguy]

There's another argument that says people who ride on nice days only or are weekend riders are at a greater risk. Less practice and honing of skills.

I say ride on. If you understand how the universe works you know that each day is a (your) creation not a discovery. Take care riding. Wear the gear. Take refresher courses and KNOW that you are safe.

Yes you are right, if you read further you may notice I also stated "or simply commute with care" following it. For some people are commuters only and never ride outside urban zones.

It's true what you say, the only way to get better at anything is to do it repeatedly and learn as you proceed.

Still, bike riding is dangerous.

The whole subject as to ride or not isn't a simple black and white one, there are various personal and social variables to consider. I would never be able to ride like "that jerk JSG" if I had thought about all the far reaching consequences it could have. However pushing the boundaries constantly also made me a better rider able to reach a stage where I used to get away with a bit too much. Of course this is the real world and in the end it always catches up to you but its all seriously rapturous fun and games till then.

A decision like this ultimately has to be made by the individual taking into account their individual and unique circumstances. All the noises, gesticulations and bravado made by the faces in the crowd (to whom this means nothing in comparison in reality) are very faint beacons of guidance at their very best.

[justsomeguy]

Is the risk of Mum and Dad , riding at the same time but on different bikes, being simultaneously taken out, any greater than the risk of Mum and Dad, travelling in the same car, both being taken out ? The latter has happened.

One or other riding (ie only one at a time) , I'd think is overall better odds than the both in the same car scenario. Which is of course so common as to excite no comment.

Mum and Dad on the same bike is maybe trusting too much to the Biker Gods. They can be sadistic bastards at times.

Ya true, but what we are having here is a theoretical (and probably useless in the real-world) reasoning session. A person on a bike is more at risk than someone in a cage. The decision to ride should apply to dad and mum equally, with more consideration required from the parent who is the major income earner of the household.

[FJRider]

I've been thinking about us Mummies of kids under age 5 - whether we should be out there on bikes.

If you're a good/safe rider then I don't see much problem in it, accidents can happen whether you are in a car or whether you're on a bike.

Last time I looked, it was a free (but getting more expensive) country. And if only the good/safe riders/drivers were on the road,the world would be a safer place. GO FOR IT YUMMY MUMMYS.

[scumdog]

She asked me the same question this afternoon.

I'll bet you can guess what I replied eh?

She obviously didn't like what I said hence this thread. Heigh ho. :rofl:


SO there's a cheeep 'zuki up for grabs eh?

[Keystone19]

Ride.

I can perhaps see the logic in not having mum and dad on the same bike at the same time but I'd probably still do it if my husband would ever get on the back.

My logic: if you love it and it offers you a sense of fulfilment and enjoyment then that in itself is going to make you a better parent to your children anyway. If something goes wrong then I figure my kids will know that I was doing something I love.

Edit: I am a firm believer that having children is no reason why we should ever change what we do or who we are.

[cowboy]

Should Yummy Mummy's ride?

OH HELL YES!!

You go girl!

What he sed:clap::rockon:

[justsomeguy]

Yeh, nothing wrong wif it, just gotta take a little more care, and that means new dads too, not just mums...you have a responsibility now...

Just wanted to reiterate again what a perfect one line summary I think this is.

[Chanak]

My logic: if you love it and it offers you a sense of fulfilment and enjoyment then that in itself is going to make you a better parent to your children anyway. If something goes wrong then I figure my kids will know that I was doing something I love.

Tha's pretty much what I was going to say.

The choice is personal, really, but from my perspective, if it is something you love (which I'm pretty sure it is), keep doing it.

Riding is not irresponsible, riding irresponsibly is. In my opinion, keep riding... responsibly.

[Chickadee]

Thanks for the different perspectives, helps to clarify the issue for sure!

I'm not a fan of couples pillioning, nothing personal against those that do it, but I think it's just too much of a risk. Plus I'm a control freak! I'm happier on my own steed.

Still two bikes could be taken out by a car/truck etc as Ixion pointed out. So nothings risk free.

When I started my biking life I though best to start now as it takes a while to get through the stages, but now I've got my full and I'm a bit wiser in how to ride a bike and the risks, I'm taking stock of having a young family and wondering if you're being selfish and thinking about the what if's. I ride much slower and more conservatively than I did when I first started riding, I'm thinking more about the what if's these days.

[cruza]

May sound like a shit, but my partner is banned from being a pillion on my bike till the kids get older. Not taking chances,

[gijoe1313]

Well yep, its a personal decision made by the parties involved, I know you had long moments of introspective reflection when you had your offs and wondered if biking was for you...

But every time, you got back on the horse and rode it (albeit with more conservatism and caution) ... so I guess you answered your own question there!

I guess you could always take pro-active decisions like not riding pillion or together if you felt that strongly about the issue (but don't give up riding! :gob:)

Meh, whadda I know me being single, free and fancy free! :o :sweatdrop

[Bikernereid]

As long as you ride safely it shouldn't matter what your gender.

I have an aunt who has wrapped her three children in cotton wool and has made them complete woosies. I think it is important that children are allowed to experiment within reason and develo a healthy understand ing of thier abilties and what is safe etc. if this is developed in younger life then hopfully it should continue in latter life and will provide a sound basis by which to life your life.

[99TLS]

my partner very rarely gets on the back of my bike because thats my " thing" but if we do go out together its only for short rides and i take as much care as I can to get her home safe, my kids 3 kids,( 4yr b/g twins, 2yr g) have had a good talk to them and i think they understand to some degree that i may not get home from every ride, they always ask me when i go out if i will be back soon , and i tell them HOPEFULLY

[Swoop]

Clarification is needed on this issue. Are we talking MILFs here?:eek:

Where is the issue? If you want to ride with young 'uns, go for it. Ixions' point of whole families in cars, is very valid.

[Bikernereid]

Good for you. I used to go out all the time with my dad when I was young but he had always instilled in my the danger of being on a bike but without putting the fear of God into me.

There is nothing that can beat common sense, honesty and explanations.


my partner very rarely gets on the back of my bike because thats my " thing" but if we do go out together its only for short rides and i take as much care as I can to get her home safe, my kids 3 kids,( 4yr b/g twins, 2yr g) have had a good talk to them and i think they understand to some degree that i may not get home from every ride, they always ask me when i go out if i will be back soon , and i tell them HOPEFULLY

[xwhatsit]

Thanks for the different perspectives, helps to clarify the issue for sure!

You live in Invercargill now. I suppose that significantly increases your chances of survival -- especially a rider like yourself (where the biggest worry is somebody else doing something stupid). Much less chance of some git pulling out in front of you or changing lanes into you over the Harbour Bridge.

Don't have kids so I'm in no way qualified to comment on anything else.

[Grahameeboy]

Dads are not required in NZ society. Mums are. It is infinitely more easy for a Solo Mum to negotiate life than a Solo Dad.

Agree on that one...........

[NighthawkNZ]

where the biggest worry is somebody else doing something stupid). .

Nope that would be sheep running out in front of you...

[Chickadee]

Nope that would be sheep running out in front of you...

Yep, livestock is firmly in the mind as a hazard on trips out. Watched a mate get taken out by a cow up in Aucks, not pretty but he lived. Broken collarbone and fooked bike for his trouble. He gave up riding, he has twin girls same age as my youngest. He's firmly against riding when you have littlies (after the accident of course).

[scumdog]

Nope that would be sheep running out in front of you...

Hey, you havin' a go at me or something??:msn-wink::Offtopic:

[jtzzr]

Personal choice ,If ya wanna ride gear up and ride.

[RantyDave]

I've been thinking about us Mummies of kids under age 5 - is it a good passtime for parents of small children?
I'm a dad but, this worries the shit out of me all the time.

I'll actually read the replies now.

Dave

[Renegade]

i hate to admit it but my partner (yummy mummy) is a cop, last week she came home with a split lip and a black eye, i dont worry every time she goes to work but when she comes home like that it guts me a little.

then she turns around and tells me she dosnt like me riding bikes :gob: personally i dont really see the difference, both are dangerous, she loves what she does and i love riding bikes, so i say do it if you love it :rockon:

[mstriumph]

.............. I know a friend won't let his wife get her learners (kids similar ages to my two) ride, he rides but doesn't want to have her out there in harms way. What are your thoughts on this issue?

that he needs to realise that his opinion may be important to her but his word ISN'T law .............. unless, of course, they have some sort of kinky dominant/submissive thing going - in which case, forget i said anything :shutup:


but seriously [yes - i can be ....] i've always thought that my job as a parent is to set a good example - to me, that means a demonstration, through my own life, that dangers and challenges are everywhere and that one does NOT achieve self-esteem or live a full and fulfilling life by running away and hiding from them

i've always ridden - and my offspring are many things but cowards isn't one of them

i've always eaten my own cooking, too ...........and that's prolly even MORE dangerous :confused:

[mstriumph]

..............Parenting is one of those jobs where nothing is about you...................... unfortunately, it's ALL about you - from the moment those little eyes open, it's YOU they are watching - and heaven help you if you say something with your words that you don't demonstrate in your life ............

i suspect that 'being a good parent' has so many shades of meaning though that we are ALL right [and all wrong .....] to some degree?

[MyGSXF]

I can perhaps see the logic in not having mum and dad on the same bike at the same time

My logic: if you love it and it offers you a sense of fulfilment and enjoyment then that in itself is going to make you a better parent to your children anyway. If something goes wrong then I figure my kids will know that I was doing something I love.

Edit: I am a firm believer that having children is no reason why we should ever change what we do or who we are.

I agree Keystone! :yes: My bike is my soul! I was riding well before my boys came along.. I continued riding while I was carrying them.. & STILL I ride now! :Punk:

Many years ago a friends grandmother was hit by a car.. WHILE she was walking across a pedestrian crossing, at lunch time, in a busy shopping street.. the force of the impact pushed her up & over the top of the car (a mini) & she rolled down off the back (she was a BIG lady!!!) She was in a coma for a week.. then died! :bye:

When your time is up.. it's up!! :violin:

If my time is up while I am riding my bike.. so be it! :done:

In saying that.. I can HELP minimise the chances.. by not riding like a moron! by continuing to up skill myself (rider training courses!!) wearing decent gear, etc. :niceone:

Jen :rockon:

[NighthawkNZ]

Hey, you havin' a go at me or something??:msn-wink::Offtopic:

ummm... nope just the facts man... ;)

[slowpoke]

You've gotta keep it in perspective. It's not like a 1 in 5, or 1 in 30 chance that you are going to be killed/injured it's one in tens of thousands or 100's of thousands. Once you start thinking "I could get hurt" or "my kids could be orphans' regarding m/cycling you have to do it for everything:

No more smoking (to stop biking and keep smoking is just non-sensical)
No more not crossing at the pedestrian crossing
No more putting off the prostate exam/pap smear
No more having that sneaky last drink and taking the backroads home
No more not wearing your seatbelt
No more putting off the weightloss program
No more speeding

You get the idea? You either live in fear and take every possible precaution or you take reasonable care (as you should do anyway) and live a real life. To cut out biking and stay 10kg's overweight, or still smoking, or still driving 5-10k's more than you should etc is ignoring far greater hazards in favour of a lesser one.

If your kids have a passion you help them follow it don't you? You don't think they'd do the same for you? Teach them how to embrace life, not hide from it.

[Jorja]

Frosty won't take me as pillion. I allow him these little paranoias as long as he keeps my bikes running.:devil2:

[Lucy]

when you began, (and I don't remember you being a total hoon then)! Then I think it's as safe as anything risky can be. Livestock is an issue around here too, which has reminded me of the need to be able to stop fast.

I don't have kids so can't really comment, but I would never ride pillion with my husband, not in case we died, but in case the bike did...:laugh:

[Draco]

Dads are not required in NZ society. Mums are. It is infinitely more easy for a Solo Mum to negotiate life than a Solo Dad.

BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! I was raised by a single Dad through the 70's/80's. I raised my daughter as a single mum through the 90's. I probably faced more discrimination and societal judgements/assumptions than he did. Dad's matter as much as mum's. I'm a pediatric nurse who deals with babies/children & families every day, and I see a large portion of Dad's staying in hospital with their kids, because their kids prefer it, or because they are single dad's. And the same goes for the families I saw through early childhood centres for the 8 years I worked in them. Male role models for our kids is as integral to society as female one's.

[Draco]

Ride.

I can perhaps see the logic in not having mum and dad on the same bike at the same time but I'd probably still do it if my husband would ever get on the back.

My logic: if you love it and it offers you a sense of fulfilment and enjoyment then that in itself is going to make you a better parent to your children anyway. If something goes wrong then I figure my kids will know that I was doing something I love.

Edit: I am a firm believer that having children is no reason why we should ever change what we do or who we are.

Here, here! I've met Keystone's kids, they're a classic example of two well adjusted, happy, confident kids, because they have two parents who continue to enjoy many hobbies and sports, some of which have risks. They role model to their kids that life is for living, experiencing & enjoying.

I too as a mum (who also happened to be single when I started riding) have faced much opposition to the fact that I choose to ride a motorbike. And I have nearly died in the process. My daughter lives by the motto that she should give everything in life a go atleast once. Consider the risks, minimise them as best you can, and then go for it! And i like to think that living my life the way I choose had something to do with that.

What also amuses/annoys me is that in NZ society, nobody tells parents that they can't take their 10' tinny out fishing or go swimming and yet more people die in this country pleasure boating or drown swimming??!!

Chris, if you think your doing your kids an injustice riding, then don't. If you think your happiness/pleasure is important while you have children then ride. It's a personal choice hun, only yours to make either way.

[avgas]

I think 5 is a good limit for kids. I wont take my nephew on the bike until he can atleast ride his pedler well on his own with no assistance.
But then again i suit up to ride 100m.

[Number One]

I've been thinking about us Mummies of kids under age 5 - whether we should be out there on bikes.

If you're a good/safe rider then I don't see much problem in it, accidents can happen whether you are in a car or whether you're on a bike. I think the only difference is that bikers tend to fare worse in the injury stakes because we're not protected by a cage. It's a break from the realities of life, but is it a good passtime for parents of small children?

Feeling mixed emotions about the issue, I know a friend won't let his wife get her learners (kids similar ages to my two) ride, he rides but doesn't want to have her out there in harms way. What are your thoughts on this issue?

Struggling a little with this myself. Gave up my bike when I got pregnant and am on the long road to getting another as I do miss the freedom and well just doing it heaps and feel it is time to reclaim some of 'my pre-mummy self' of which biking was a big part - it was also how hubby and I really connected and used to enjoy ourselves...so thinking about it for my marrage too as he still rides and I'd like to be able to again share that with him - and lets face it being on the back is ok for a while but ya just want to own those handlebars! :lol:

Find it interesting to see the mixed views and can't help but feel my heckles raise at the suggestion that it's ok for dads but not mums....WTF?! Kids need their daddies as much as their mummies and hey mummies need daddies too!!!!!

Anyway - Things are looking good for me to have my own 2 wheels in the garage some time in the next few months (bring it on!:2thumbsup) but all the while I am torn about the 'What if?' I would hate to think my riding a bike (even like the nana that I am) could cost me the opportunity to watch my handsome wee boy grow up (whether I love riding or not keeping in mind we have no control over all the other numskulls on the road) however I do also know that I must be happy and my boy should see me taking calculated risks and not being afraid of life...Life lived in fear is a life half lived and all that.

Anyway I am not yet ready to give up for good, so guess I will just be mindful at all times to ride slowly and defensively and keep reminding myself that I AM invisible and EVERY bastard is out to kill me!

Posted this a while ago in Biker Angels to get thoughts from the ladies on this issue: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=60710

[scumdog]

Chikadee, I've thought a bit about this (hence why only now I'm posting a reply on the actual topic) and I guess the bottom line of my sig. sums it up.

Having said that I still fuss/worry when CB is riding - yet it never worried me too much when she was a pillion - go figure!!

Ride like I do - full of paranoia and trepidation yet strangely enjoying the experience....just treat ALL other road users as psychotic incompetents out to get you and ride accordingly, NEVER trust them to do the right thing or NOT do the stupid wrong thing and you'll be O.K.:niceone:

[scootnz]

I took out life insurance after my second was born (they're now aged 4 and 2). Also asked my partner to take out life insurance, and then asked him to come to Public Trust with me to get wills made. All done.

Finally this year I think I can start riding out of town again - it's rally season now, and have two to go to in February and March.

I have been to some rallies in the past 4 years - I went in the car with my 5 month old, just so I could be there, and got a chance to ride part of the way.

My partner and I got together through riding, and will stay together through riding. I want to see more of this country - and can't afford to do it in 4 wheels. And it's just not the same.

Having children has changed my life, and me. Why bother having them otherwise? Children are one way of discovering more about yourself and other people, and growing.

It's not really possible to go for spontaneous rides - I can't presume on family caring for my kids at the drop of a hat. My youngest is more work - so leaving both of them with family is not done very often, especially overnight. But my family knows it's important to me, and I only ask when I really need it.

I think if riding is important to you, you should take all reasonable precautions to provide for your family, then ride when you can. You appreciate it all the more when you can't take it for granted.

[James Deuce]

BOLLOCKS!!!!!!! I was raised by a single Dad through the 70's/80's. I raised my daughter as a single mum through the 90's. I probably faced more discrimination and societal judgements/assumptions than he did. Dad's matter as much as mum's. I'm a pediatric nurse who deals with babies/children & families every day, and I see a large portion of Dad's staying in hospital with their kids, because their kids prefer it, or because they are single dad's. And the same goes for the families I saw through early childhood centres for the 8 years I worked in them. Male role models for our kids is as integral to society as female one's.

Things have changed dramatically since then, especially with the introduction of the DPB and the Family Court.

You are talking from your past experience. I am talking about now.

As far as Dad's staying in Hospital with kids, you're yelling at the wrong guy. I've spent weeks in hospital and as a bloke it is not a place you want to spend time, irrespective of the reason you are there. You are watched, interrogated repeatedly, and medical staff will not confirm a course of treatment with out a Mum's input.

My wife is a pediatric nurse, with 20 years experience in a couple of countries and the blatant discrimination against Dad's is horrendous, but not nearly as bad as against male nurses working in the pediatric arena.

Male role models have been removed from the parts of NZ society that Children would most likely encounter them, and there has been a strong push to disestablish marriage as the family structure model people aspire to.

[Devil]

Here, here! I've met Keystone's kids, they're a classic example of two well adjusted, happy, confident kids, because they have two parents who continue to enjoy many hobbies and sports, some of which have risks. They role model to their kids that life is for living, experiencing & enjoying.
.

I've met her kids too. They're a great reason to get out riding!

*ahem*

Just kidding, Jill ;)

[PrincessBandit]

Ride.
Edit: I am a firm believer that having children is no reason why we should ever change what we do or who we are.

I didn't start riding until a year ago (my kids are now 16 and 18) and I would love to have been riding much earlier. However my husbands family have always been anti-bikes and he had inherited that discrimination. I admire him immensely that he could own up to that and "come out the other side" to the point of encouraging me and us buying my first bike and now my Bandit. Both he and our son are also riding now and we are all LOVING it. Only one not interested is daughter (the 18 yr old); she prefers to stick with cage driving.
My personal feeling is that when you have children you DO (read 'should') put them ahead of yourself while they are dependent on you. Obviously it is a huge gray area as to what constitutes endangering yourself and your kids being left bereft of one or both parents; and tragedies will always strike some families in this manner. Like others have said, you have to make your own choice and as long as you can live with / accept the consequences then no-one else can tell you what to do. I probably would not have ridden, even with my husband's encouragement, while my children were little. And I don't really mean to make light of the "they're now big enough and ugly enough to survive without me" type of mentality, but there is a grain of truth in that...

[Beemer]

The mum or dad is the one who could possibly get hurt, not the kids, so they can do whatever the hell they like. What are you going to do teach your kids to live in fear?

Good call - how about we all go and work in cotton wool factories and never do anything that may endanger our lives? Pedestrians get killed walking across Lambton Quay - should we ban parents going to work? People die from all sorts of things every day and the majority of those things aren't dangerous. If your view is that motorcycling is dangerous, so is driving a car - so we should all go and live on a commune where we have no need of transport.

There are lots of parents in the military - can you imagine how few soldiers we'd have if they all felt that doing dangerous things was a no-no once they bred?

Yes, be careful, but don't give up life just because you have kids! Or if you feel like that, don't breed in the first place because you're just going to fill the world with a pack of nancy boys and girls!

[janno]

For a husband to say to his partner she can't learn to ride a motorcycle is increadibly selfish - IF he is a motorcyclist!! If he isn't then fair point, and it's something they would both have to work through.

But if he rides, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander. So either both don't ride or participate in other high risk activities such as diving or solo mountaineering etc, or both follow their passions. As someone mentioned, and I think it applies to anything unless you are a bomb disposal hobbyist, the chances are something like 1 in several hundred thousand of being killed on a bike.

Would it have occured to this man to say OK dear, you get your licence and I'll stop riding for the next few years . . . no, I didn't think so!!

My life was turned upside down at the age of twenty when I randomly contracted an illness that I only just survived, and I've been fairly limited ever since. So I love to see people out there doing what they love, taking risks, and living life.

I can't stand people sitting around using the excuse of something bad might happen to not participate in life. As plenty of people on here will know, you don't appreciate how good life is until you have choices taken away from you.

So tell you friend to go for it!

[Crisis management]

I can never really understand the need for polls and discussion when this and many other topics is only about self responsibility.
Every day we make these decisions, shall I spend money on the bike or the kids school uniform, can I go on the south island passes ride or finish the house renovations....its endless and really simple, you weigh up your options and responsibilities and do what you feel is right.

The major defining point in adulthood is the ability to take responsibility and act on that responsibility, you may not enjoy every decision you have to make but life is a package, not a series of pleasures laid on for yourself.

Don't overdramatise the dangers of motorcycling, it's just another thing we do in life, all activities have risks and we manage them to the best of our ability. If I worried about the risks I and my wife took in our lives we wouldn't be the people we are, and I like who we are!

So, Chickadee, weigh up your desires and concerns (including McJims) and make a decision, live with it and adjust as circumstances demand.

You guys sound sensible, you can sort it out.

[MSTRS]

My take on this is....yes, as a parent, to a certain extent your life is no longer yours alone. BUT, it is by no means over and you should not avoid doing things you enjoy just because of a heightened amount of risk. What if you tripped up the back steps, cracked your scone on the top step and died of a brain haemorage? Shit can happen anywhere, anytime. Life is like that.

[Keystone19]

Things I did before kids: extreme skiing, downhill mountainbike racing, multipitch rock climbing, mountaineering.

Things I do after kids: motorcycle racing, mountainbiking, adventure racing, triathlons.

In retrospect, I think I have toned things down a little after having children...



You will make the choices you do based on how you feel at the time. If you are truly worried about the risks to your children involved with riding a bike, you may not enjoy it anyway so you will need to weigh that up in your decision.

[Howie]

I've been thinking about us Mummies of kids under age 5 - whether we should be out there on bikes.

If you're a good/safe rider then I don't see much problem in it, accidents can happen whether you are in a car or whether you're on a bike. I think the only difference is that bikers tend to fare worse in the injury stakes because we're not protected by a cage. It's a break from the realities of life, but is it a good passtime for parents of small children?



I think it is all about personal choices, if you know the risks involved and take the precautions you think are needed then go for it. Their are many things we do in everyday life that have a risk factor involved.


Dads are not required in NZ society. Mums are. It is infinitely more easy for a Solo Mum to negotiate life than a Solo Dad.

As a full time single parent for the last 6 years I don't think I have found it any harder to negotiate life than a single Mum would. I make/ made choices That effect the lives of my kids and myself just as a single Mum would.

[007XX]

Ride, definitely if that is who you are and what you enjoy!

Do it safely, but do it nonetheless. Riding has got risks, but so does climbing in an airplane or walking down the street.

Also, let's see this from a different angle: what if by not riding, you were depriving your child of inspiration for a future passion?

My dad and mum rode (still do) and they gave me the bug. I now ride and my son (10) has got the bug too. He is aware there are risks, but he is learning the rules on safety as I learn them.

[madandy]

I've only been on one good ride out of town since becoming a Dad 5 weeks ago. The whole time I was out there I thought about our wee boy and getting home to him and his Mum in one piece.

Years ago a good friend shot himself in the head because he became so depressed at not being able to do the things he loved due to an injury...I'm sure more parents of young kids die doing things other than riding motorcycles than this great thing we all enjoy.

Take care.

[Swoop]

There is nothing that can beat common sense
Common sense?? In NZ??? :rofl:
That was regulated out of society years ago. Bloody PC poofters!

i've always eaten my own cooking, too ...........and that's prolly even MORE dangerous :confused:
We should swap recipies. Do you also know when dinner is ready, when the smoke alarm goes off?:shifty:

Had a nice chat with a lady today.
I pulled up outside of a shop and she wandered over and was perving at the F-117. Got chatting and she said that her son came off his bike some time ago, and she received the phone call from him in the hospital.
Her response was "at least you are able to call me!".
It works both ways, I guess.

[vifferman]

I ain't voting until I see photographic evidence that these alleged "yummy mummies" are in fact yummy.:oi-grr:

[Mike748]

There never will be a right or wrong answer.
How much life insurance can you afford? :oi-grr:
Do you have friends and family to help if one of you isn't there?:grouphug:
Can you give up bikes for something else? :drinknsin

My wife is also keen on bikes but has put it aside for now as our first baby is due any day, so this is something we discussed in length.
The result?
Knock knock. Q:Who's there? A:Mr life Insurance or you aren't allowed to ride!:laugh::clap:
Riding sports bikes is a relatively new thing for me and I'm having a ball, so I won't give it up just because it is "higher risk" (pets are dangerous too:yes:). I will however minimise the risk and back off when unsure of a situation.

[scumdog]

I ain't voting until I see photographic evidence that these alleged "yummy mummies" are in fact yummy.:oi-grr:

The one I met was..:whistle:
All in the eye of the beholder eh?

And CB is my 'yummy-mummy' :drool:she has two sons and she's a rider....and I fret about her riding at times yet funnily enough rarely gave it a thought whe she was pillion with me..go figure the logic in THAT!:crazy:

[Riff Raff]

I don't know if I can comment yet, because I won't know how I'll feel until after my baby is born. I can't see me giving riding up - once you've got bikes in your blood there's a limit to how long you can stay away from them. WT and I might have to compromise on a shared bike and take turns at going for a ride.

[McJim]

Me and Chickadee have both got enough life insurance that if one of us pops clogs the other will have no mortgage and be comfortable until the kids reach school age. If we both pop clogs there's enough family to bring the boys up properly too. Neither are ideal situations of course but contingencies have been planned for.

[White trash]

I don't know if I can comment yet, because I won't know how I'll feel until after my baby is born. I can't see me giving riding up - once you've got bikes in your blood there's a limit to how long you can stay away from them. WT and I might have to compromise on a shared bike and take turns at going for a ride.
Can't be havin ya riding the WBP Bike though, you'd probably smoke me :)

[Kickaha]

you'd probably smoke me :)

I don't think there's any probably about it :bleh:

[DEATH_INC.]

Can't be havin ya riding the WBP Bike though, you'd probably smoke me :)
Waddaya mean 'probably'? :Pokey:
edit: Oops he ^^^^ said that orreddy

[Draco]

Things have changed dramatically since then, especially with the introduction of the DPB and the Family Court.

You are talking from your past experience. I am talking about now.

As far as Dad's staying in Hospital with kids, you're yelling at the wrong guy. I've spent weeks in hospital and as a bloke it is not a place you want to spend time, irrespective of the reason you are there. You are watched, interrogated repeatedly, and medical staff will not confirm a course of treatment with out a Mum's input.

My wife is a pediatric nurse, with 20 years experience in a couple of countries and the blatant discrimination against Dad's is horrendous, but not nearly as bad as against male nurses working in the pediatric arena.



We're getting a bit off topic here, but my comments don't just come from past experience (even though I was a single mum until 4yrs ago) but from the present too. Perhaps i'm fortunate to nurse in a hospital that delivers FCC (family centred care), because dad's are valued and respected as much as mum's (& grandparents) without question. We also have male nurses working in all of our pediatric wards who say they rarely face discrimination.

But back to the original topic, just as I justify riding by saying it's good role modeling to my daughter to take risks and enjoy life, perhaps you justify your riding by saying it's ok because dad's aren't as necessary/important. At the end of the day is there really any difference? We both choose to ride and we both justify it in our own ways.

[James Deuce]

We also have male nurses working in all of our pediatric wards who say they rarely face discrimination.


They're lying. With good reason. They'd like to keep their jobs.

I don't justify my riding in any way. It's what I do. I made a comment that was my opinion, and a firm belief. I stand by it, I won't be changing my mind, and I think some of the attitudes reflected in this thread are symptomatic of a society that has lost its focus, and values gratification of self in the now over long term planning and respect for the roles we should be fulfilling in regard to our children.

I also stand by the comment that Dads are not valued, and I know from long personal experience that Nurses seldom understand the impact they have on families with offhand comments written in reports or nursing notes.

[jrandom]

This thread reminds me of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1679&highlight=riding), from four years ago.

[madandy]

Jim(2),
Is the Hospital your wife works in run by feminists or something mate?
I've spent the last 4 months with my partner doin antenatal classes, midwife visits, doctor check ups, blood tests then 30hrs of Labour, a C-section in an operating theatre, a week in postnatal recovery ward and now the weekly midwife checks, plunket visits, and other associated trivia to do with becomming a new Parent and not once have I been treated as anything other than VERY important by anyone.

On the other hand Uncle Helen thinks I'm important enough not to grant us any financial assistance and my partner gets less from her 'maternity leave allownace' each week than she was paying in tax every damn week while still at work.

[White trash]

I don't think there's any probably about it :bleh:


Waddaya mean 'probably'? :Pokey:
edit: Oops he ^^^^ said that orreddy


That's fucken it! I'm bustin' out Guido on both yo asses soon!:devil2:

[White trash]

because I won't know how I'll feel until after my baby is born.


"Your" baby? Wonder what the dad has to say about that.

Who is he?:first:

[mstriumph]

This thread reminds me of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1679&highlight=riding), from four years ago.

ohh - i do so miss Zed .......

[buellbabe]

Riding is not irresponsible, riding irresponsibly is. In my opinion, keep riding... responsibly.

Totally agree.

Lots of really good points made in this thread. Personally I am of the opinion that shit happens and knowing that is not gonna stop me from doing the adrenaline-rushing things I enjoy but it does stop me being a total idiot...ok those of you who know can just shut the hell up now!

On a slightly different note. A good friend who died last year was always into dirtbikes. His wife (also a really old friend) gave their 10yr old (or is he 11? can’t remember) son an 80cc dirtbike for Xmas. Now this was something she and hubby talked about and agreed on before he died...I fully support this and so do most of her male friends. However,her other female friends are horrified! They have given her a REALLY hard time about it. And whats really making me angry is that they are harassing the kid as well.

Bloody rude in my opinion.

[Number One]

However,her other female friends are horrified! They have given her a REALLY hard time about it. And whats really making me angry is that they are harassing the kid as well.

Bloody rude in my opinion.


You are right - that sucks and how disrespectful to the dad, her and the kids...some people have no bloody clue! Good on her for honouring her and her mans decisions even in death. Good woman.

[vifferman]

Uncle Helen thinks I'm important enough not to grant us any financial assistance and my partner gets less from her 'maternity leave allownace' each week than she was paying in tax every damn week while still at work.
That comment reminded me of summat my GP said. He is (or was) an obstetrician (and delivered our two oldest boys), but he said he doesn't practice obstetrics any more as the Labour Gummint has made it impossible. Sounds like it's a heavily biased and sexist policy that favours midwives over obstetricians. While I'm bleating (meeeehhhh!), he's also finding it very difficult making a living being a GP. If he didn't love his job, he would've quit, because he sure isn't making big money out of it.

[Maha]

This thread reminds me of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1679&highlight=riding), from four years ago.

Question is....would God look good in leathers?
I think he would be of a Goldwing kinda dude so tassles would be part of the equation too...

[Mumbles]

Live in the now, think positive and nothing should go wrong.
If my wife wanted to get her license for a bike I'd say no only cause she dosen't have the hand eye coordination to be safe on the road.

Ride Ride Ride. :bleh:

[Bikernereid]

As someone who has lost a father and nearly lost a mother I can say they are both important. So both dads and mum should ride as much or as little as they want to. At the end of the day I learnt from my parents what was safe and what wasn;t and I am really pleased that my parents didn't wrap themselves or me ion bubble wrap as I God alone know what type of wuss I would be today.

As long as you are riding with your wits about you and with remembering that every other person on the road is a dick head you can't go too wrong!! You really sound as if you have you head screwed on the right way so good luck to you and happy riding.


Struggling a little with this myself. Gave up my bike when I got pregnant and am on the long road to getting another as I do miss the freedom and well just doing it heaps and feel it is time to reclaim some of 'my pre-mummy self' of which biking was a big part - it was also how hubby and I really connected and used to enjoy ourselves...so thinking about it for my marrage too as he still rides and I'd like to be able to again share that with him - and lets face it being on the back is ok for a while but ya just want to own those handlebars! :lol:

Find it interesting to see the mixed views and can't help but feel my heckles raise at the suggestion that it's ok for dads but not mums....WTF?! Kids need their daddies as much as their mummies and hey mummies need daddies too!!!!!

Anyway - Things are looking good for me to have my own 2 wheels in the garage some time in the next few months (bring it on!:2thumbsup) but all the while I am torn about the 'What if?' I would hate to think my riding a bike (even like the nana that I am) could cost me the opportunity to watch my handsome wee boy grow up (whether I love riding or not keeping in mind we have no control over all the other numskulls on the road) however I do also know that I must be happy and my boy should see me taking calculated risks and not being afraid of life...Life lived in fear is a life half lived and all that.

Anyway I am not yet ready to give up for good, so guess I will just be mindful at all times to ride slowly and defensively and keep reminding myself that I AM invisible and EVERY bastard is out to kill me!

Posted this a while ago in Biker Angels to get thoughts from the ladies on this issue: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=60710

[duckonin]

:2thumbsup You only live once so while you are doing it you have got to do what you want to do, I say go for it and in time your kids will grow with firm recreational values, way better for them to see you out riding your bike, than teaching them to lay about on the couch...

Stay with your bike and enjoy your life to the MAX!!!:wari:

[Richard Mc F]

Can't give the answer but I can give one perspective, in the oh fuck mortgage and young children stage we flagged away bikes, they are teenagers...we are back ! actuall could not give a fuck about the house but the boys....don't even ask if ya have to ya don't understrand

[Cleve]

A complicated area (and I am not alone in thinking this looking at the various responses on the thread). It is a personal decision that each individual must make. My wife decided to give up riding (at least until kids are older) and I decided to revive my very old desire to return to racing. Occasionally I have pillioned her, but I do sometimes have doubts about that.
As for Yummy Mummys. I would say yes, do it, as you would consider and do anything you do once you have your own children, based on how it is for you AND how it is for them.

[BALZY BUELL]

Dads are not required in NZ society. Mums are. It is infinitely more easy for a Solo Mum to negotiate life than a Solo Dad.

I'm sorry but i had too giggle at your comment, My mum was and still is a dead beat mum, If it wasen't for me my dad i wouldn't be the chick i am today, WAY TO GO SOLO DADS!!!!! (balzy buell's missess)

[karla]

I'm sorry but i had too giggle at your comment, My mum was and still is a dead beat mum, If it wasen't for me my dad i wouldn't be the chick i am today, WAY TO GO SOLO DADS!!!!! (balzy buell's missess)

I wouldn't be here without my dad either - he raised my brother and I from ages 7 and 9. Granted, I wouldn't be here without my mother either, and I spent many years not valuing her. I understand now that she did the best that she could given her struggle with alcoholism. But it was my father who stepped up to the plate at the end of the day, and who will always have my love, admiration and respect.

Society doesn't value fathers, and it's sad. Men (and the occasional wman) are often treated like walking wallets, rather than being valued for the time and wisdom they can give. A natural reaction to hearing that men aren't "good enough" is that is that men will walk away, and often women get left on their own. Feminism taught us all that "girls can do anything", so men of my generation are not so quick to step up and take the world on their shoulders the way that my father did.

I'm greatful that I live in a society that has valued and supported me to bring up my sons when I needed it, but that is a two-edged knife. When men are given the message that they aren't needed because the govt will provide, they will leave and go where they do feel needed. But a government will never give our children time or love, and kids need this as much as they do the material things.

I acknowledged and fought actively for men's rights for many years, and I see that the tide turning now. A lot of women - like yourself - support our fathers, brothers and sons, as men once supported women and feminism. Often men are too busy or scared to speak out about the discrimination they experience, and I think that they need to be given the space and even encouraged to do this. :hug:

I am growing old, and the fire in the belly is less strong now - I have even come to feel peace with the way that things are. Neither men's rights nor feminism were about equality as far as I can see, so somewhere inbetween we need to find a field where we can meet as one.

Seems to me that that time and place will come ~ whoever knows

I hope to keep on riding til it does!

[Ixion]

...
I am growing old, and the fire in the belly is less strong now - I have even come to feel peace with the way that things are


Well said. But I hope I never get that old.

[Insanity_rules]

There is nothing hotter than a milf on a bike! Go for it.