Replace or Rebuild Shock?

[Coyote]

The shock in my VFR is fucked. It's like riding a trampoline. I PM'd Robert Taylor and he estimated it would cost $300 to rebuild my shock, but that's an estimate and it may not be rebuildable. If I'm lucky it could be cheaper, but this bike hasn't given me a break at all since getting it (could've paid off the loan with the amount I've had and have to spend on it).

Every so often a shock appears on trademe, there's currently a 99-00 CBR600 shock that I'm pretty sure would fit (I think the current shock is 300mm long) and it's half the cost of the estimated rebuild. There is also a TZR250 shock and a Sachs RSV1000 shock too.

What I'd like to know is what could I reasonably get away with regarding replacing my shock with something different? Would a cheaper alternative be better (which I very much doubt)? The current shock is an adjustable Showa shock with remote reservoir so it's pretty flash (at least in it's day) so if the alternatives aren't as great I may as well borrow the extra money I need. Otherwise there's other things the bike needs that I can put my money towards (headstock breaings, front brake pads, carb balancing, fixing the hole in the exhaust, fixing headlights and neutral light, de-buckle/replace front wheel, valve clearance check, find out and fix whatever is making it smoke when it's cold, oil and filter....).

[imdying]

You should PM Robert again...

[montsta56]

Hey Coyote
I've got a Sp1 rear shock that may interest you ( a Common conversion on an Nc30) I loved it on mine but I've recently ordered an Ohlins rear. The shock has done bugger all K's.

[cowpoos]

Does any of these shocks share identical linkages?? NO...does it share the same motor torque,swingarm angle,weight,chasiss dynamics??? I could babble on for hours here!!!

Get it re-built I don't care what any arm chair expert says about swaping shocks from other bikes...they are fricken wrong!!! and will always be wrong!!

Pm robert again as imdying suggested...and ask him about this...he many not reply for a while as he will be very busy with the NZ superbike nationals and helping testing at the WSBK test at phillip Island this week.

[imdying]

Woah woah woah there poos... everyone on the internet says it's a good swap, and on the 400greybike forums, they all do it. So it must be good and work properly. I mean, they couldn't all be wrong could they? People aren't fundamentally retards are they? Say it isn't so! :o

[Coyote]

You should PM Robert again...

Does any of these shocks share identical linkages?? NO...does it share the same motor torque,swingarm angle,weight,chasiss dynamics??? I could babble on for hours here!!!

Get it re-built I don't care what any arm chair expert says about swaping shocks from other bikes...they are fricken wrong!!! and will always be wrong!!

Pm robert again as imdying suggested...and ask him about this...he many not reply for a while as he will be very busy with the NZ superbike nationals and helping testing at the WSBK test at phillip Island this week.
Will ask if he doesn't see this thread.

I was just asking as all money going into the bike at this point is borrowed since I haven't got a proper job yet. I've already poured a tonne of cash into the stupid thing for the last 8 months since I got it and I'll be pouring a lot more in untill I can actually afford to start again with a better, newer bike. Just seeing if there was something cheaper out there.

Hey Coyote
I've got a Sp1 rear shock that may interest you ( a Common conversion on an Nc30) I loved it on mine but I've recently ordered an Ohlins rear. The shock has done bugger all K's.
I've always wanted an SP1. Maybe I can just have a part of it :p

How much?

[cowpoos]

Woah woah woah there poos... everyone on the internet says it's a good swap, and on the 400greybike forums, they all do it. So it must be good and work properly. I mean, they couldn't all be wrong could they? People aren't fundamentally retards are they? Say it isn't so! :o
well...lets just say...if we started removing all the warning labels and signs in the world...we would systimatically kill these sorts of rumours by natural selection!!!

[limbimtimwim]

The shock in my VFR is fucked. It's like riding a trampoline. I PM'd Robert Taylor and he estimated it would cost $300 to rebuild my shock, but that's an estimate and it may not be rebuildable.I think the VFR shock is rebuildable to a certain extent. Don't have a parts fiche handy to double check though.

[montsta56]

Say what ya please but the conversion worked fine for me!:tugger::tugger:

[cowpoos]

Say what ya please but the conversion worked fine for me!:tugger::tugger:
LMfao...and you know coz?? your a ride god?? skill in everything including delusional bullshit??? hahahahahaahahahahaha

[vifferman]

LMfao...and you know coz?? your a ride god?? skill in everything including delusional bullshit??? hahahahahaahahahahaha
Oh come on, Mr Poos, Sir! Play nice!
If the bike handled more betterer afterwards, surely that's good enough? Even if it was suboptimal, if it's an improvement over how it was, then it can be deemed "to have worked".

[cowpoos]

Oh come on, Mr Poss, Sir! Play nice!
If the bike handled more betterer afterwards, surely that's good enough? Even if it was suboptimal, if it's an improvement over how it was, then it can be deemed "to have worked".
hmmmm....Sir?? I like that...Sir Poo's ...has a certain grandurous ring to it!!

Yeah I should be nicer...but it seems on here sometimes...you have to be an arse to get a point across...and I and many other get irritated by people preaching stupid suggestions...especially in the case of suspension,brakes and tyres...as these thing directly effect safety...so if some irrisponsable ass recomends something stupid based on some delusional thought of a twat on a forum somewhere or mate of a mate in a pub that once said xxxxxx?!? and the out come is dangerous or potentually dangerous...I don't mind shoting it down and sound like arsehole if thats what it takes to get a point across...one of the bad things about the internet is people that spout this crap hold no liablity...think what would happen on a publication recommended putting a SP1 shock in a vfr400...they would be in all kinds of shit!! and the reason they don't recommend such things is liability...

My $1.43

Ps: That and I need a coffee!!

[James Deuce]

Say what ya please but the conversion worked fine for me!:tugger::tugger:
NC30s and NC24s aren't exactly the same. Coyote is actually a pleasant lad and it would be nice to see him make curmudgeon.

I'll often disagree with people but I won't call them a wanker because I do.

What I don't understand is why people will replace one worn shock with another and then claim it's an improvement.

Most OEM equipment will last about 20,000km before it is utterly shagged. People shout at me when I say that, but it has certainly been the case with anything I've owned, and in some cases, even sooner.

My NC24 shock seized at about 14,000kms. The rebuild was comparatively painless and the mechanic and I did the work and re-sprung it for good measure at the same time. It cost me $300 for the rebuild. In 1990. The Showa spring was about $120 from memory.

Get the shock rebuilt. You have the opportunity to get it done by an expert, or you can put a shock in there on the advice of people who don't have a poofteenth of the experience and knowledge that Robert does. Your (and your wallet's) choice.

Steering head bearings can be done yourself. Buy the replacements from Shrodoco and it will cost you about a third of the price for OEM bearings. The front wheel can be repaired easily. I try and find the name of the company who fixed my TRX front wheel and repainted it for $230 inc. freight.

[Sully60]

I try and find the name of the company who fixed my TRX front wheel and repainted it for $230 inc. freight.

Smythe & Yates?

Or is it just Smythe now or is it just Yates, arrghh either way they do a damn god job with damn good service!

[James Deuce]

That was them!

[TDC]

Woah woah woah there poos... everyone on the internet says it's a good swap, and on the 400greybike forums, they all do it. So it must be good and work properly. I mean, they couldn't all be wrong could they? People aren't fundamentally retards are they? Say it isn't so! :o

While I don't usually recommend a change like this, it does seem to work reasonably well in practice. One has to wonder haw many crash test volunteers are consumed in this "after market compatibility testing"....

If you don't have money do the above change, the rebuilds are usually only possible till about 16 - 20K, after this the body is usually too worn to make it worth while.

If you have the cash invest in a premium shock, you will wonder why you waited so long to do it......

[imdying]

While I don't usually recommend a change like this, it does seem to work reasonably well in practice. One has to wonder haw many crash test volunteers are consumed in this "after market compatibility testing"....Thankfully people like yourself are so generous with their time and experience, I don't understand why someone would go down that path without consulting someone like yourself :no:

[Coyote]

While I don't usually recommend a change like this, it does seem to work reasonably well in practice. One has to wonder haw many crash test volunteers are consumed in this "after market compatibility testing"....

If you don't have money do the above change, the rebuilds are usually only possible till about 16 - 20K, after this the body is usually too worn to make it worth while.

If you have the cash invest in a premium shock, you will wonder why you waited so long to do it......
I don't have the cash, that's why I'm considering paying less for a shock off another bike. I'd much rather get Ohlins of course but that's extremely unlikely.

The bike has done 70,000kms. The shock shat it's oil about 2000kms ago, got bouncier and it's pretty well shagged now. After that many k's, is a rebuild even worthwhile for this shock?

NC30s and NC24s aren't exactly the same. Coyote is actually a pleasant lad and it would be nice to see him make curmudgeon.
....

Steering head bearings can be done yourself. Buy the replacements from Shrodoco and it will cost you about a third of the price for OEM bearings. The front wheel can be repaired easily. I try and find the name of the company who fixed my TRX front wheel and repainted it for $230 inc. freight.
We both have NC30's, so if it fits his it should fit mine. And don't worry, this bike and the last girlfriend have forged me into a spiteful and resentful person, I just do my best to appear pleasant on the whole.

At this stage, montsta56 shock sounds like a good deal ($150 sound reasonable?) and I'll give that a shot unless more people speak out against the idea like Sir Poos did. Then I'll get it rebuilt, if it can be done.

Gosh, could get a wheel from a wreckers for $100-150. There's a fair amount of front wheels around that'll suit the VFR since Honda used them on a few of their bikes (from my understanding).

[James Deuce]

I don't have the cash, that's why I'm considering paying less for a shock off another bike. I'd much rather get Ohlins of course but that's extremely unlikely.

The bike has done 70,000kms. The shock shat it's oil about 2000kms ago, got bouncier and it's pretty well shagged now. After that many k's, is a rebuild even worthwhile for this shock?

We both have NC30's, so if it fits his it should fit mine. And don't worry, this bike and the last girlfriend have forged me into a spiteful and resentful person, I just do my best to appear pleasant on the whole.

At this stage, montsta56 shock sounds like a good deal ($150 sound reasonable?) and I'll give that a shot unless more people speak out against the idea like Sir Poos did. Then I'll get it rebuilt, if it can be done.

Gosh, could get a wheel from a wreckers for $100-150. There's a fair amount of front wheels around that'll suit the VFR since Honda used them on a few of their bikes (from my understanding).

That's hilarious! The one time I saw it I assumed it was a 24. It seems to have suffered some creative re-modelling.

It's better than a shock with no oil, but by crikey, without re-valving and re-springing your asking for one of those, "WTF happened" accidents.

If it can be rebuilt, Robert's your man. If it can't well, c'est la vie.

[Coyote]

That's hilarious! The one time I saw it I assumed it was a 24. It seems to have suffered some creative re-modelling.
Grrr. How long ago was this anyway? I've got a new screen, side fairings back on and painted the tail (needs some glossy clearcoat though). It looks pretty good despite the few scratches and stone chips (from when the front mudgaurd broke off).


It's better than a shock with no oil, but by crikey, without re-valving and re-springing your asking for one of those, "WTF happened" accidents.

If it can be rebuilt, Robert's your man. If it can't well, c'est la vie.
Argh, being convinced to go the more expensive way dammit... Is there anyone down here that can have a look at it first and say with certainty that Rob will be able to rebuild it?

[TDC]

Grrr. How long ago was this anyway? I've got a new screen, side fairings back on and painted the tail (needs some glossy clearcoat though). It looks pretty good despite the few scratches and stone chips (from when the front mudgaurd broke off).

Argh, being convinced to go the more expensive way dammit... Is there anyone down here that can have a look at it first and say with certainty that Rob will be able to rebuild it?

With those kind of K's its not sounding hopeful. The only way to know for sure is to look inside, which I can do, but if its been ridden for some time with no oil I wouldn't bother with the labour charge for inspecting it.

Like I have said just a little while ago the modification suggested seems to net performance in excess of stock with no obvious horrible / dangerous side effects (much to my amazement). Its not going to be a long term fix, all OEM shocks die young.

If you are short for cash at least make the step you can afford (the bike surly can't be made more dangerous than it is) (bent rim , no damping....), it sounds like the bike is not eligible for a WOF (or at least shouldn't be). Use the time that this low cost option is buying you to save for a better (read Swedish) solution <_<

[Coyote]

With those kind of K's its not sounding hopeful. The only way to know for sure is to look inside, which I can do, but if its been ridden for some time with no oil I wouldn't bother with the labour charge for inspecting it.

Like I have said just a little while ago the modification suggested seems to net performance in excess of stock with no obvious horrible / dangerous side effects (much to my amazement). Its not going to be a long term fix, all OEM shocks die young.

If you are short for cash at least make the step you can afford (the bike surly can't be made more dangerous than it is) (bent rim , no damping....), it sounds like the bike is not eligible for a WOF (or at least shouldn't be). Use the time that this low cost option is buying you to save for a better (read Swedish) solution <_<
So an SP1 shock is worth a shot? At least just to keep the bike going from A to B untill the upgrade?

I should make a poll really...

The rim isn't bent by a hell of a lot. Just the brakes phase in and out. I've replaced the disks, the pads are yet to be renewed (another $120 for pads was too much after spending $400 for disks, I know you are meant to replace the lot at the same time...) which would hopefully make braking smoother. But I did have a chain around the front when the steering lock wasn't working and I did forget it so I wouldn't be surprised if the wheel got knocked out of round.

I've only made a few half arsed attempts at getting a full time job, untill then the VFR will take any money away from my savings.

[Robert Taylor]

So an SP1 shock is worth a shot? At least just to keep the bike going from A to B untill the upgrade?

I should make a poll really...

The rim isn't bent by a hell of a lot. Just the brakes phase in and out. I've replaced the disks, the pads are yet to be renewed (another $120 for pads was too much after spending $400 for disks, I know you are meant to replace the lot at the same time...) which would hopefully make braking smoother. But I did have a chain around the front when the steering lock wasn't working and I did forget it so I wouldn't be surprised if the wheel got knocked out of round.

I've only made a few half arsed attempts at getting a full time job, untill then the VFR will take any money away from my savings.

As a basis of comparison an Ohlins NC30 shock has a minimum length of 307mm with a stroke of 50mm and a spring rate of 14 newtons. The SP1 ohlins shock has figures of 326mm minimum length, 63mm stroke and a 9 newton spring with rebound valving to match. Those figures are pretty much akin to the standard oem shocks. To fit an overlong shock with a soft spring is nuts, and I disagree that it is an adequate fix ( at best ) Have these guys got a shock dyno and motion ratio curves at their disposal?
It always amazes me ( as a generalisation ) ''if it fits......''
I can understand the cold hard reality of economic neccessity But also there is a responsibility for personal safety and those of other road users in your path. I wonder aloud how many have been maimed or killed because of a cheap fix?

[JD Racing]

VFR shocks really are a piece of junk, if you spend $300 on it you'll still be left with a piece of junk and $300 less in your pocket. You might even be left with nothing I've seen these shocks where the shaft has pitted inside the body, outside it looks ok, inside it's trashed.

Spend the money on a proper shock, even if you have a minor tip off due to a bad shock, you'll easy spend double the money of a shock on bodywork, levers, footrests, why take that gamble?

[Coyote]

As a basis of comparison an Ohlins NC30 shock has a minimum length of 307mm with a stroke of 50mm and a spring rate of 14 newtons. The SP1 ohlins shock has figures of 326mm minimum length, 63mm stroke and a 9 newton spring with rebound valving to match. Those figures are pretty much akin to the standard oem shocks. To fit an overlong shock with a soft spring is nuts, and I disagree that it is an adequate fix ( at best ) Have these guys got a shock dyno and motion ratio curves at their disposal?
It always amazes me ( as a generalisation ) ''if it fits......''
I can understand the cold hard reality of economic neccessity But also there is a responsibility for personal safety and those of other road users in your path. I wonder aloud how many have been maimed or killed because of a cheap fix?


VFR shocks really are a piece of junk, if you spend $300 on it you'll still be left with a piece of junk and $300 less in your pocket. You might even be left with nothing I've seen these shocks where the shaft has pitted inside the body, outside it looks ok, inside it's trashed.

Spend the money on a proper shock, even if you have a minor tip off due to a bad shock, you'll easy spend double the money of a shock on bodywork, levers, footrests, why take that gamble?
Can you rebuild the VFR's shock to a better than stock condition?

If the VFR's shock isn't worth bothering with, then what is? Any money going towards this shock is going to be borrowed so don't get dreamy and say "get ohlins" because I simply can't afford it.

Or should I buy a scooter?

[imdying]

Persevere with the VFR mate, do it right when you can... they're fab bikes, I've been riding for a long time now, and I'd still add one to my stable in a flash. It's the sorta bike that you'll still enjoy riding even once you get a larger animal :)

[Coyote]

Persevere with the VFR mate, do it right when you can... they're fab bikes, I've been riding for a long time now, and I'd still add one to my stable in a flash. It's the sorta bike that you'll still enjoy riding even once you get a larger animal :)
Yeah, it's definately a great model of bike, just I got an old one. It's good to keep a modern classic on the road but then again I need transport and I have little cash.

I want to hang onto the bike ideally. At least there's not so much value in it to tempt me into trading it in. Doesn't help still living with the parents and getting their constant opinion

[imdying]

Yeah I had that, so I brought a bigger faster one :yes:

[koba]

Dunno if it helps but may interest someone that my NC21 rear shock doesn't feel the best at 30 somthing thousand kays.
Its OK but I know It could be much better.

[Shaun]

If you cannot afford an after market New shock, get on internet for wreckers in Australia, and see if you can find a used low milage original, untill you have enough to buy a quality after market unit, Penske-or Ohlin's would be my choice:scooter:

[Coyote]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Honda-VFR400-VFR-400-NC30-rear-shock-assembly_W0QQitemZ230104984920QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3 5230QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l12 47QQcmdZViewItem

It'll cost around $300 after shipping and currency conversion costs. Fuck... I want a new bike!

[Coyote]

Spend the money on a proper shock, even if you have a minor tip off due to a bad shock, you'll easy spend double the money of a shock on bodywork, levers, footrests, why take that gamble?
Bodywork, clip ons, footpegs, muffler and front wheel have already been fucked over by wet paint

[Coyote]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-135844556.htm

Fark, love that model, and he wants to trade for a F3 bike. I have to borrow some money stat