Up/down hill gear selection?

[mowgli]

I've been riding my Hyo for a bit over a month now. This morning I went for a quick ride out west to check out South Makara Rd. It's not in good condition and not useful for much more than exercising your suspension.

Anyway I naturally went up and back over the saddle from Karori to Makara a couple of times. At first I was mostly in third, sometimes second a was pretty comfortable through the winding corners sitting at around 5-6000rpm. On the way back I wondered whether I wasn't sitting a little low in the revs and decided to sit mostly in second, sometimes third. I discovered that not only was it much more responsive both in accel and engine braking but that it felt heaps quicker though the bends. I expect it was quicker (felt that way) cos the bike was more stable. More speed washed off on approach allowing harder accel through the corner.

So my question: is it generally true that twisty stuff + higher revs = more effective riding? Is there something else in this that I'm missing?

[MVnut]

Depends entirely on the road and the bike, no set rule. Just go with whatever works best in a particular situation. :Punk:

[MSTRS]

So my question: is it generally true that twisty stuff + higher revs = more effective riding?

Yes. Insofaras your bike should be in it's 'power area' rev-wise.

[vifferman]

More revs = more responsive (in both acceleration and deceleration) + more stable (gyroscopic doohickey thingo)

[MVnut]

More revs = more responsive (in both acceleration and deceleration) + more stable (gyroscopic doohickey thingo)

More revs does not necessarily give you more stability, all depends on the particular bike and road as I said before. Smoothness is the best recipe

[Sully60]

More revs = more responsive (in both acceleration and deceleration) + more stable (gyroscopic doohickey thingo)

True that but..

Because of the better response you have to be smoother with you application of the throttle. So if you're not this could cause more instability front to rear (pitching)



(gyroscopic doohickey thingo)
As the Hyo has a transverse engine (crank spins in the same direction as the wheels) this only affects the roll axis (leaning over).

As mentioned before there is no wrong or right just what works for you. And as you develop your skills you find that wee bike will spend a lot more time at higher revs if you know what I mean:msn-wink:

[mowgli]

More revs does not necessarily give you more stability, all depends on the particular bike and road as I said before. Smoothness is the best recipe

Agreed on the smoothness call for sure. Revswise I'm only talking one gear lower so that's only 1-2k difference. Takes me into the 6-7k range which is where the Hyo seems to pickup.

[NighthawkNZ]

Depends entirely on the road and the bike, no set rule. Just go with whatever works best in a particular situation. :Punk:

Yes there is no set rule for what gear. I usually drop down a gear when going down hill (some times down 2 or 3 gears) and as for going up the other side well since I have a load of torque it could be top.... but at the same token it could 3rd

It depends how twistie the road, how step the hill, how much traffic is on it, what your bike can and can't do,

Having higher revs, does mean the bike is ready to go any time you need it to, and is a little more responsive, the engine braking is just about always active when you need it.

It means in cornering you have more control, you can power out a lot quicker, instead of what seems like at times you glide through the corner and the engine is bearly ticking over and would give no braking if needed and then when you come out of the corner and open her up and your valves get pushed up through your head... and you have to change down anyway... It can give more control, and choose the right gear for the corner, is one of the learning things for the bike... every bike is different

However you use more fuel, it does mean you may get quicker at going through the twisties andwatch out for Mr Plod :Police:

[Rev DJ]

Interesting thoughts...
I live at the top of the Western Hills in the Hutt so my first riding action in the morning is to cruise down the hill and conversely in the evening it is ride back up again. The morning ride down the hill is more concentrating on ensuring the bike is getting warmed up and that my braking and cornering are correct. The evening ride up the hill is power-on and carving the turns correctly and smoothly to minimise any risks/surprises and to try and keep momentum up.
So, to gear selection... it surely must depend on the road, speed, conditions and you the rider? I would have thought that correct braking and vision through the corner would have more influence on the gear selected? Your thoughts? Cheers DJ

[NighthawkNZ]

Interesting thoughts...
I live at the top of the Western Hills in the Hutt so my first riding action in the morning is to cruise down the hill and conversely in the evening it is ride back up again. The morning ride down the hill is more concentrating on ensuring the bike is getting warmed up and that my braking and cornering are correct. The evening ride up the hill is power-on and carving the turns correctly and smoothly to minimise any risks/surprises and to try and keep momentum up.
So, to gear selection... it surely must depend on the road, speed, conditions and you the rider? I would have thought that correct braking and vision through the corner would have more influence on the gear selected? Your thoughts? Cheers DJ

Yes it does depend on the rider, the bike the corner in question etc etc etc etc etc etc

[Mr Merde]

Just a thought so dont jump down my throat.

When going downhill there is a lot more weight moved towards the front end of the bike. Applying the front brakes increases this front end loading.

By dropping down a gear and allowing the bike to rev a little higher you are applying engine braking and moving the weight to the rear of the bike thereby lightening up the handling a little.

Conversely when traveling up hill the weight of the bike is shifted towards the rear. This is why your steering always feels lighter when going uphill. Heere dropping down a gear will allow you to build up a greater speed and still have a lighter touch to the bars.

Personally I have always rated a riders skill by the way they manage a twisty downhill stretch of road.

[Ixion]

The old rule was : go down a hill (a twisty one, anyway), in the same gear that you would go up it.

[vifferman]

Personally I have always rated a riders skill by the way they manage a twisty downhill stretch of road.
Yup.
I find downhill corners harder and less enjoyable than uphill ones. Must be a sign I need to practice more.

[Nagash]

I actually prefer downhill twisties, especially on well built roads, the ones that curve with the corner.. (you'll gather i'm not very good with terminology)

You can shift the weight real heavily round those corners and absolutely rip it round at G-force inducing speeds.

Only advantage of uphill is that you don't really have to brake as much because gravity does it for you so it feels abit safer. Boring to me though cause you always get stuck behind some cager doing 20..

[Sully60]

I actually prefer downhill twisties, ..

I like the orange ones myself...






The old rule was : go down a hill (a twisty one, anyway), in the same gear that you would go up it.

Glad that's and old rule. Should've tried that one on my B-King test ride.
Would probably owned (a bent) one now if that was the case:cool:

[TOTO]

I find that lower gear and higher gear gives me more stability and more reasurance that if something happens and I need to reduce speed, when I release the trottle I will decrease double the speed that I would have decreased if I was on higher gear. it may only be 5-7 Ks but it helps.

my 2c

[mowgli]

However you use more fuel...
Haha the Hyo uses so little (compared to my Pajero) I've barely noticed the price increase this week.


So, to gear selection... it surely must depend on the road, speed, conditions and you the rider? I would have thought that correct braking and vision through the corner would have more influence on the gear selected? Your thoughts? Cheers DJ

I was taught that gear selection came fourth in priority after lookout, road position and speed (acceleration is fifth). I guess now that I've developed a healthy awareness (fear of cages :eek5:) of hazards and am getting consistent lines through corners I'm just looking for the next thing to work on.


When going downhill there is a lot more weight moved towards the front end of the bike. Applying the front brakes increases this front end loading.

By dropping down a gear and allowing the bike to rev a little higher you are applying engine braking and moving the weight to the rear of the bike thereby lightening up the handling a little.

Scary thing is that this makes complete sense to me :crazy:

[Jantar]

Ixion is correct. The general rule of go downhill in the same gear you go uphill will normally see you right. There are a few exceptions: If your bike is so under powered that it can only creep up in 1st, then maybe go downhill a gear or so higher; conversely if you have so much torque that you never need to change down, then try a slightly lower gear.

For most circumstances down and up in the same gear will be pretty close to ideal.

[Mr Merde]

..
.




Scary thing is that this makes complete sense to me :crazy:


Even scarier is that it makes sense to me, and I wrote it.

[NighthawkNZ]

Ixion is correct. The general rule of go downhill in the same gear you go uphill will normally see you right. There are a few exceptions: If your bike is so under powered that it can only creep up in 1st, then maybe go downhill a gear or so higher; conversely if you have so much torque that you never need to change down, then try a slightly lower gear.

For most circumstances down and up in the same gear will be pretty close to ideal.

Sounds about right to me

[Lucy]

The old rule was : go down a hill (a twisty one, anyway), in the same gear that you would go up it.


Yep, I remember being taught that when I learnt to drive.