atgatt +1

[vifferman]

Now here's a funny thing (or perhaps not): even though I'm a proponent and (mostly) an adherent to the "All The Gear, All The Time" philosophy, (yes, for those noobs who haven't heard of it, that's what 'ATGATT' means), I swore I would never wear fluoro safety gear, even if it was The Law.
But... pehaps because I like to try things out, or perhaps because even though the vifferbabe hadn't specifically asked me to wear it, this morning I clipped on the fluoro bib thingo that came with my new Macna leather jacket.

And guess what?
It didn't hurt!
Neither did it flap around, irritate me, or in any way misbehave. In fact, I even had some motorists move over for me, perhaps because the reptilian part of their brain reacted to the bright shininess and thought: :Police:
Of course - ALL bikey cops wear blue Shoei helmets and ride a blue VFR. :rolleyes:

The only negative about the fluorovestythingo was the reflection off the instrument panel, which at times made me think my indicator indicator light was illuminated. As it was, but so was everything else in LURID! EYE-POPPING!! FLUORO YELLER!!

Oh wait - here's a nuther possible negative: if you have an accident, it will be much more noticeable, so you'd feel like a right pillock.

[jrandom]

Fluoro vests are awesome.

:yes:

[ital916]

Fluoro vests are awesome.

:yes:

Agreed I wear mine all the time..good of you to see the light. +1

[vifferman]

good of you to see the light. +1
I couldn't farkn miss it reflecting off my dash, even with my tinted visor!
Maybe the motorists who pulled over were in fact going, "AAAHHHHH! MY eyes! MY EYES!!!! I'm blind!!"

[007XX]

Oh FFS!!!! *you must spread around before giving it to Vifferman again* Bloody Poo thing, telling me who I can or cannot give sum goodness too...

Well done Sir! :headbang::first:

[gijoe1313]

Mein eyes... the goggles... they do nothing! All good, glad to hear you are doing things differently and trying things on for size .. and colour! :niceone:

[Crisis management]

You had a birthday recently Viffer?

This is a clear sign of ageing.....

:bleh:

[vifferman]

Fluoro vests are awesome.

:yes:
Meh.
It doesn't provoke the slightest bit of awe in me.
But this one is clever (clips to the front of the jacket, and zips to the back), and as fluoro stuff goes, it's discreet. And discrete.
In an IN YOUR FACE!! kinda way. :rolleyes:

But, give it two (2) weeks of commuting, and it'll be so begrimed by road spooge and zorst fumes that it'll look like that color [sic] in "American Graffit", to whit (to whoo): "A cross between piss yeller and puke green".

[Big Dave]

Or you fall off and it garrotes you.

[vifferman]

Or you fall off and it garrotes you.
That can't happen - it has only two narrow (~40mm) strips in the front, and a slightly bigger panel in the back. Like I said, fairly discreet.
There's no way I'm wearing some huge, flappy, fluoro rubbish bag over my shoulders. Even this is kinda scary, is only going to be worn during the danger fraught business of sharing the road with brain-dead commuters, and it's still under probation. But so far it gets a tentative thumbsup.

[Big Dave]

That can't happen - it has only two narrow (~40mm) strips in the front, and a slightly bigger panel in the back. Like I said, fairly discreet.
There's no way I'm wearing some huge, flappy, fluoro rubbish bag over my shoulders. Even this is kinda scary, is only going to be worn during the danger fraught business of sharing the road with brain-dead commuters, and it's still under probation. But so far it gets a tentative thumbsup.

Good.

A lot of injuries are caused by loose fitting gear.
On impact a floppy article of clothing stops dead and the body inside keeps moving - resulting in multiple fractures.
That leather isn't tight for sexy.

I see those old guys on cruisers with jeans, shoes, jacket and billowing orange safety vest...ei ei ei.

[Blue Velvet]

Got a pic?

[99TLS]

Got a pic?

you just want a larff dont you :shutup:

[vifferman]

I see those old guys on cruisers with jeans, shoes, jacket and billowing orange safety vest...ei ei ei.
No f'n way I'd wear anything that wasn't comfortable and practical.
It's kinda marginal wearing anything that screams "LOOK AT ME!!", which is the sole function of the fluoro bib. If I can get past that (and if I get brownie points from the vifferbabe), I'll keep wearing it.

There was a thing somewhere (a thread on one of those Interdweeb forums or somesuch:whistle:) about gear, that basically distilled it down to this: if your gear's good, you don't notice it or even think about it. If you find yourself thinking you're too hot/cold, or your gloves/boots/helmet/jacket/pants are tight/loose/bunched up/rubbing/whatever, then they're no good.
My only thoughts about my gear are that it feels nice that my jacket flows lots of cool air, and (when sitting in the sun in traffic on the way home), "my right leg is getting hot". The rest of the stuff I don't even notice.

[Squiggles]

i'll wear mine depending on the conditions and distance im riding. I find though, that while mine is a good fit, it unzips in the wind while riding and starts flapping a bit (and tries to scratch my tank!)

[Horse]

For the first few weeks of having a learners and a motorbike, I was just wearing black. Then I bought an orange hi-vis and have been wearing that over the top ever since.

And the one thing about wearing the the hi-vis that I noticed the most:

Other bikers wave back to me less often.

(mwahahahahaha: the wave thread never dies......)

[jrandom]

Over Christmas, I have grown fat(ter) and scant(er) of breath, so I am riding in my jeans until the weather cools and my gut shrinks (magically, of its own accord, of course) and my leather pants once more become a comfortable option.

It's amazing how much heat the cooling fins on a GSX1400 throw off in traffic.

:yes:

[vifferman]

It's amazing how much heat the cooling fins on a GSX1400 throw off in traffic.

:yes:
I bet. The rear headers on the VFR have a similar effect on one's right leg. No way you'd ride one of these in shorts if you had any sense. :eek:
And the bit I like is the fan: when the temp hits 106, the fan kicks in, and sucks air from the outside, through the left radiator, then back through the fairings.
Actually, it's not as bad as Triumph's take on the Sport Tourer; the early 1050 Sprint STs were renowned for hotness.

[vifferman]

Don't blame me for the subject or the camerawoman.
Note the difference between the photo of the jacketcote without the bib and the ones with: the centre leather panel has been zipped off to allow nice, kewleeen air (and zorst fumes :eek:) to blow across/around my hirsute chest.
And note the second pick chur: see (behold!) the downcast look - the vifferbabe made me stand in the corner, facing the wall. :(
Strangely, both those "Photo by the vifferbabe" shots lean to the west...
I must measure her legs tonight - her right one may need stretching, or a piece tacked on the end...

[Pwalo]

[QUOTE=vifferman;1379510]Whelp, I've just recently replaced my 'formerly red' Teknic jacket with the all-black Macna one, so my gear is once again all black, with the exception of the black/blue/white/silver helmet. When I first bought the Teknic, one positive aspect I noticed when wearing all black was the Intimidation Factor. When wearing the Teknic plus ghey yellow/silver/black/white Spidi Pro-1 gloves and a white helmet, I got less respect from other motorists than when I wore all black leathers, gloves and a black/gold/silver helmet.



Yes it's a bit bizarre, but I've noticed that people seem to give me less grief after I replaced my race rep helmet with a plain black one. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think next time I'll get a plain white helmet, and wear a reflective bib. One of the guys I work with does, and reckons it's really good when he's commuting on the m'way. Can't think why.

[jim.cox]

I think next time I'll get a plain white helmet, and wear a reflective bib. One of the guys I work with does, and reckons it's really good when he's commuting on the m'way. Can't think why.

A mate of mine in London used to ride an old white BMW R Clacker.

It was ex some euro-police dept and had "POLITE" written in blue on the big white fairing so that it showed correctly in a rearview mirror.

He reconned it was a great "safety" feature and that motorists really did take notice of him.

[Hitcher]

I am convinced that wearing a fluoro vest would significantly inhibit my ability to pass through plumbers' vans at a sub-atomic level.

If I seriously thought that they made any significant difference in positively improving the average cage driver's appreciation of and consideration for bikers, I would wear one in a heartbeat.

Otherwise I put them in the same category as middle-aged men in lycra and chubby teenagers with low-riders, muffin and arse-antlers (if driving a car I would have to fight the urge to swerve and exterminate, such being my heightened sense of good taste).

[jim.cox]

If I seriously thought that they made any significant difference in positively improving the average cage driver's appreciation of and consideration for bikers, I would wear one in a heartbeat.



I wonder about fluoro vests causing "target fixation" by giving drivers some thing to aim at.

And at them inducing the "six-foot tall and bulletproof" syndrome in the wearers

[vifferman]

I wonder about fluoro vests causing "target fixation" by giving drivers some thing to aim at.
It's kinda funny then that Transit was rumoured to be considering making them compulsory. Apparently, flashing brakelights are illegal for that very reason.


And at them inducing the "six-foot tall and bulletproof" syndrome in the wearers
Well, I am six-foot tall, so I don't have that part of the syndrome at least (thinking I'm bigger'n I yam).
In fact, I found that wearing the thing made me feel vulnerable in the sense that being more noticeable, the other yoix on the road were more likely to notice any miscreant behaviour, so I rode more carefully.
There's no way I'm relying on it to cast a "Ring of Invulnerability" about my person, and I also have no intention of wearing it every day.

I have engendered some brownie points with the vifferbabe for wearing it, so that's a Good Thing.

[Number One]

Don't blame me for the subject or the camerawoman.
Note the difference between the photo of the jacketcote without the bib and the ones with: the centre leather panel has been zipped off to allow nice, kewleeen air (and zorst fumes :eek:) to blow across/around my hirsute chest.
And note the second pick chur: see (behold!) the downcast look - the vifferbabe made me stand in the corner, facing the wall. :(
Strangely, both those "Photo by the vifferbabe" shots lean to the west...
I must measure her legs tonight - her right one may need stretching, or a piece tacked on the end...

Bugger no bling...good on you with the vest. Looks great to me, definitely not toooo ghey I'd wear one and might just look into something similar for commuting myself. As for the photo captions :lol: I wish Vifferbabe luck with her measurements - might be ending up with an extension....:eek:

[Number One]

arse-antlers.

:baby:Enlighten please...is this like whale tail?

[Hitcher]

Enlighten please...is this like whale tail?

"Arse-antlers" are those mandatory tattoo thingies that young things have roaming across the smalls of their backs. I presume there is some clip-art in Girlfriend magazine that they can refer a tattooist to for this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_back_tattoo

[Number One]

"Arse-antlers" are those mandatory tattoo thingies that young things have roaming across the smalls of their backs. I presume there is some clip-art in Girlfriend magazine that they can refer a tattooist to for this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_back_tattoo

oh yeah I get ya...know them as runways - then you did miss whale tail another swerve worthy fashion crime on the wrong bod.

[Hitcher]

oh yeah I get ya...know them as runways - then you did miss whale tail another swerve worthy fashion crime on the wrong bod.

I thought that they were "albatrosses". Such is life.

[Horse]

If I seriously thought that they made any significant difference in positively improving the average cage driver's appreciation of and consideration for bikers, I would wear one in a heartbeat.

Times up:


After adjustment for potential confounders, drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.63, 95% confidence interval 0.42 to 0.94) than other drivers.

From: Motorcycle rider conspicuity and crash related injury: case-control study (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/328/7444/857)

More details:

Objective To investigate whether the risk of motorcycle crash related injuries is associated with the conspicuity of the driver or vehicle.

Design Population based case-control study.

Setting Auckland region of New Zealand from February 1993 to February 1996.

Participants 463 motorcycle drivers (cases) involved in crashes leading to hospital treatment or death; 1233 motorcycle drivers (controls) recruited from randomly selected roadside survey sites.

Main outcome measures Estimates of relative risk of motorcycle crash related injury and population attributable risk associated with conspicuity measures, including the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, headlight operation, and colour of helmet, clothing, and motorcycle.

Results Crash related injuries occurred mainly in urban zones with 50 km/h speed limit (66%), during the day (63%), and in fine weather (72%). After adjustment for potential confounders, drivers wearing any reflective or fluorescent clothing had a 37% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.63, 95% confidence interval 0.42 to 0.94) than other drivers. Compared with wearing a black helmet, use of a white helmet was associated with a 24% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.76, 0.57 to 0.99). Self reported light coloured helmet versus dark coloured helmet was associated with a 19% lower risk. Three quarters of motorcycle riders had their headlight turned on during the day, and this was associated with a 27% lower risk (multivariate odds ratio 0.73, 0.53 to 1.00). No association occurred between risk and the frontal colour of drivers' clothing or motorcycle. If these odds ratios are unconfounded, the population attributable risks are 33% for wearing no reflective or fluorescent clothing, 18% for a non-white helmet, 11% for a dark coloured helmet, and 7% for no daytime headlight operation.

Conclusions Low conspicuity may increase the risk of motorcycle crash related injury. Increasing the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, white or light coloured helmets, and daytime headlights are simple, cheap interventions that could considerably reduce motorcycle crash related injury and death.

Note - I haven't read the full paper, I'm not an advocate for the authors or anything. But in studying for my learners in November I remembered the 37% figure, I'm sure it appears in the Road Code for motorcyclists or something - searching the net turned up this paper which I suspect is the source of the claim.

[vifferman]

Holy Snapping Arseturtles, Batman! :eek5:
If I'd realised fluoro bibvestclothes had statisitics arse-ociated with them, I'd have never worn the thing!
Nor started this thread!
Doncha know - over 90% of bike accidents are caused by statistics!

How was I to know? there was no warning label or nuffink...

[Hitcher]

What a load of utter crap! The BMJ should know better. Such a "study" has no way of either observing or assessing cause and effect.

People who ride horses whilst facing backwards are less at risk of accidents than those who ride facing forwards. But I don't see this being advanced as a serious solution to minimising horse-riding accidents. I presume the long-suffering New Zealand taxpayer funded that nonsense piece of "research" as well.

[Swoop]

"Arse-antlers" are those mandatory tattoo thingies that young things have roaming across the smalls of their backs.
Sometimes referred to as a "tramp stamp", or so I am led to believe.

[Horse]

Such a "study" has no way of either observing or assessing cause and effect.

I guess I don't understand your point of view. Why not?

[Hitcher]

I guess I don't understand your point of view. Why not?

Because it is impossible to replicate circumstances to account for a variable like the wearing of a fluoro vest to see whether its presence or absence contributed to an accident. Or not. There are always multiple factors that contribute to accidents (despite what the Speed Kills Nazis think), and endeavoring to isolate just one in the absence of a proper scientific double-blind testing regime is specious, to say the least. Heightened by producing "statistics" to at least one decimal place in such a "study" also lessens the credibility of the "findings" when much of what is being measured is totally subjective in the first instance. GIGO!

[jrandom]

Personally, I think that 'conspicuity' is an awesome word, and will start using it immediately at every possible opportunity.

:yes:

[Horse]

There are always multiple factors that contribute to accidents (despite what the Speed Kills Nazis think), and endeavoring to isolate just one in the absence of a proper scientific double-blind testing regime is specious, to say the least. Heightened by producing "statistics" to at least one decimal place in such a "study" also lessens the credibility of the "findings" when much of what is being measured is totally subjective in the first instance. GIGO!

Shorter Hitcher: "I didn't read the paper."

[Movistar]

"Conclusions Low conspicuity may increase the risk of motorcycle crash related injury. Increasing the use of reflective or fluorescent clothing, white or light coloured helmets, and daytime headlights are simple, cheap interventions that could considerably reduce motorcycle crash related injury and death."

Key words here are 'may' and 'could'

I'm sure wearing a white helmet with an orange day-glo vest, reflective stripes around my ankles, knees and thighs while happily tooting my electric buzzer, switching my headlight to highbeam, pulsing my brake light, activating my hazard lights whilist standing up and moving my arms in a rotational direction may give me more conspicuity and could reduce my chances of some dick head pulling out in front of me, there is still a high possibility that one would.

It comes back to the good ol' look out for the dick heads yourself 'cause they won't look out for you!

But that aside, as far as fluoro bibvestclothes go, that's pretty good, :niceone:

I would wear that, no worries.

[Horse]

Real scientists always talk like that. Don't get too excited.

[MacD]

Such a "study" has no way of either observing or assessing cause and effect.


I'm sure the authors know this but the temptation is always to over-extend the conclusions of this sort of epidemiological study. In the full paper the authors themselves note that the lower relative risk of having been in an injury accident while wearing a white helmet or fluoro vest may be due to self-selection. In other words riders who are more risk-averse probably select white helmets and fluoro vests, therefore they may be measuring the risk-taking nature of the participants rather than any effect of clothing.

There's actually quite a large amount of literature on motorcyclist conspicuity (evidently you can thank an Australian for that word) which is quite contradictory. A number of experiments have been carried out to try to assess the differential visibility of motorcycle apparel, and the results are often counter-intuitive. Black clothing (jacket and helmet) has been found to have quite high conspicuity as it produces a high contrast silhouette, while some coloured/patterned clothing appears to produce a camouflage effect, particularly in urban situations.

Personally I'm quite comfortable wearing black gear when commuting.