Gender differences

[Bikernereid]

A recent situation occurred that has had me thinking about wether I am naturally stubborn/determined or wether it has something to do with gender stereotyping. Ever since I was young I was always told that girls can't do things (jump out of second story bedroom windows), that girls should do things ([play with dolls, dress like a girl) and shouldn't do things (climb trees etc).

I am glad to say that for the most part my father and to some extent my mother did not reinforce gender stereotyping but the rest of society seemed to want to place me in the nice little girly pigeonhole. Whenever anyone met our family and had heard about the child who was nuts about bikes they aurtomotically started talking to my very confused little brother who had no idea about bikes whatsoever. When my dad informed themk that they were in fact talking to the wrong child the look or shock used to crack dad n I up heaps!!

Being the little tomboy person that I was I of course did everything that was laddish and had nothing to do with all of that girly crap like dolls, make-up, and wearing dresses. I have always been a 'fighter' in the persistence sense of the word but I am now wondering wether I would be quite so fiesty and not able to walk away from challenges etc if I had be born a boy!

Just wondering if there are any old tomboys and or stubborn girly types on there who might be able to provide thier insight and experiences!

[Blackbird]

Hi Lily

Was your mother fairly feisty? Our daughter is like you and certainly isn't a "girly" stereotype. She also has a tongue that will cut concrete at 50 paces - doesn't take prisoners if someone richly deserves a sharp retort :clap:. She's the spitting image of her mother in this respect and wondered if your Mum was the same. Of course, daughter inherited her love of cars and bikes from me, although her Mum does drive a MX5 with Mazdaspeed trick bits.

Geoff

[jrandom]

... I am now wondering wether I would be quite so fiesty and not able to walk away from challenges etc if I had be born a boy!

In my experience, anyone who has to excuse themselves as 'feisty' tends, in reality, to be simply aggressive and unpleasant, and to lack the ability to empathise with and positively manage other people's emotions.

Men who have that particular issue end up in all sorts of trouble. Self-control is a key life skill and a general predictor of success.

I suspect that women can get away with being obnoxious a lot more because they tend to carry less real capability to cause hurt, whether it be in terms of physical confrontation or general socioeconomic influence.

And, hey, when it comes to bitchiness, tits and arse cover a multitude of sins, right?

:laugh:

Karma's a motherfucker, though.

[nadroj]

So how did the challenge go?

[NZsarge]

In my experience, anyone who has to excuse themselves as 'feisty' tends, in reality, to be simply aggressive and unpleasant, and to lack the ability to empathise with and positively manage other people's emotions.

Men who have that particular issue end up in all sorts of trouble. Self-control is a key life skill and a general predictor of success.

I suspect that women can get away with being obnoxious a lot more because they tend to carry less real capability to cause hurt, whether it be in terms of physical confrontation or general socioeconomic influence.

And, hey, when it comes to bitchiness, tits and arse cover a multitude of sins, right?

:laugh:

Karma's a motherfucker, though.
+1........You took the words right out of my mouth!:whistle:.............:killingme

[jrandom]

So how did the challenge go?

The candy-arse poof didn't show up! All talk and no walk. Obviously the good old days of Empire-building stiff upper lips have been long forgotten.

:no:

[Bikernereid]

Anyone who knows me knows that I am 'fiesty' but will give the shirt off my back and do anything for a friend if they need my help. Maybe people have different connotations of what fiesty means in the UK it is not a negative word.

As for women being fiesty and thier capability to cause hurt, have you not heard that the pen is mightier than the sword. So many of the people that are screwed up the most by their partners, family etc are the way they are because of what has been said to them and not what has been done to them. Words inflicted in the right way can scar for years, bruises heal a lot quicker.

Many of the most sucessful people are what would be diagnosed as psychopaths so I do not think that self-control is necessarily a good predictor of sucess.

And as for socioeconomic hurt well women are slowly creeps up the socioecomomin ladder and those of us who do not want a family but a career, we are growing in number will have more disposable income than those men who have to support a family and kids. So can have more of an impact at a fiscal level. :shit:


In my experience, anyone who has to excuse themselves as 'feisty' tends, in reality, to be simply aggressive and unpleasant, and to lack the ability to empathise with and positively manage other people's emotions.

Men who have that particular issue end up in all sorts of trouble. Self-control is a key life skill and a general predictor of success.

I suspect that women can get away with being obnoxious a lot more because they tend to carry less real capability to cause hurt, whether it be in terms of physical confrontation or general socioeconomic influence.

And, hey, when it comes to bitchiness, tits and arse cover a multitude of sins, right?

:laugh:

Karma's a motherfucker, though.

[Bikernereid]

You text me and I said I would be there but it took slightly longer to get back to Auckland than expected. But at the end of the day if you want to call me names and have a go at my heritage you do so. I am not proud especially proud of what had been done by my countrymen before me and especially not in NZ!! And I have been called far worse names when at high school so neh worries there.

[Blackbird]

What?
Jenny?
Surely you jest, Sir! :confused:

I jest not Ian. Perfectly charming but woe betide anyone when they step way out of line. Watch her take on a shop owner or anyone else who is either rude or fails to deliver in any significant respect. Very feminine but not afraid of standing her ground when required. Exactly the way it should be!:laugh:

[nadroj]

but it took slightly longer to get back to Auckland than expected.

Was it the Hodah or did you get owned?

[Bikernereid]

My mother is one of the most determined women I have ever met but I think I get my stubborness/fiestyness from my dad. Good on your daughter, it is still a very predominantly male world out there and the more determined, educated and foward-looking women out there the better.

I think that if you are fiesty and female you get the reputation for being difficult and pushy yet if you are a man with the same temperament you are a go-getter etc. I still think we are very much dictated by gender stereotyping and that until women start having more of an imput at the higher levels of society things will not change very quickly. I am not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination but I believe that we should be able to compete on a level playing field and whoever is best for the job etc gets it.


Hi Lily

Was your mother fairly feisty? Our daughter is like you and certainly isn't a "girly" stereotype. She also has a tongue that will cut concrete at 50 paces - doesn't take prisoners if someone richly deserves a sharp retort :clap:. She's the spitting image of her mother in this respect and wondered if your Mum was the same. Of course, daughter inherited her love of cars and bikes from me, although her Mum does drive a MX5 with Mazdaspeed trick bits.

Geoff

[Bikernereid]

Very tired rider, getting OWNED and stopping for lunch etc!!


Was it the Hodah or did you get owned?

[Blackbird]

Maybe people have different connotations of what fiesty means in the UK it is not a negative word.


adj. feist·i·er, feist·i·est . Full of spirit or pluck; frisky or spunky.

[jrandom]

... have you not heard that the pen is mightier than the sword.

Not really, no. I'm a simple bugger, so if I don't like someone I just thump them. Coming up with something cutting to say is pretty hard work.

:no:


Many of the most sucessful people are what would be diagnosed as psychopaths so I do not think that self-control is necessarily a good predictor of sucess.

Pig's arse. They're not really psychopaths. Real 'psychopaths', as per, say, DSM-IV and the like, are completely dysfunctional. Careful with your labels, Miss Aspiring Head-Shrinker. The rich cunts you're talking about are usually just clever guys who have gotten over their risk-averse instincts, and who love their families and donate their surplus wealth to charity.


... those of us who do not want a family but a career, we are growing in number will have more disposable income than those men who have to support a family and kids. So can have more of an impact at a fiscal level. :shit:

Tell me about it!

:crybaby:

[jrandom]

... at the end of the day if you want to call me names and have a go at my heritage you do so.

Awww, diddums. HTFU!


I am not proud especially proud of what had been done by my countrymen before me and especially not in NZ!!

The only major thing your countrymen did wrong in NZ was fail to send over enough soldiers to wipe out the annoying brown bastards who got here first.

[Bikernereid]

You might want to speak to some psychologists like Rob Hare (devised the Psychopathic Checklist) and read some books on the subject and you might find that I am right!! Certain/most psychopaths can function extremely well and there are far more psychopaths in the general public than in prisons and psychaitric units!! Did I say that being a psychopath was a bad things, that all psychopaths do not love ther family and do not donate to charity?

I doubt that you are anything but simple, young man!!


Not really, no. I'm a simple bugger, so if I don't like someone I just thump them. Coming up with something cutting to say is pretty hard work.

:no:



Pig's arse. They're not really psychopaths. Real 'psychopaths', as per, say, DSM-IV and the like, are completely dysfunctional. Careful with your labels, Miss Aspiring Head-Shrinker. The rich cunts you're talking about are usually just clever guys who have gotten over their risk-averse instincts, and who love their families and donate their surplus wealth to charity.



Tell me about it!

:crybaby:

[Bikernereid]

I hate bloody colonialism and I do not condone wiping out an indigineous species whether human, animal, bird etc.


Awww, diddums. HTFU!



The only major thing your countrymen did wrong in NZ was fail to send over enough soldiers to wipe out the annoying brown bastards who got here first.

[PrincessBandit]

In my experience, anyone who has to excuse themselves as 'feisty' tends, in reality, to be simply aggressive and unpleasant, ...
....Men who have that particular issue end up in all sorts of trouble. Self-control is a key life skill and a general predictor of success...

...I suspect that women can get away with being obnoxious a lot more because they tend to carry less real capability to cause hurt...
And, hey, when it comes to bitchiness, tits and arse cover a multitude of sins, right?

:laugh:
Hmmmm. I have never thought of "feisty" in a boorish aggressive context although I guess it could be used like that; I agree with what you say about self-control although the two words (feisty and self-control) are not necessarily paradoxical; 'women tend to carry less real capability to cause hurt' (??) - maybe it's just that guys don't like to let us see it but in private I'm sure there would be lots of guys who might disagree with you there; and as for t -and -a covering a multitude of sins (:laugh:) well, if you're going to let us get away with that...some of us will be saying that's your "problem".:msn-wink::bleh:

[jrandom]

You might want to speak to some psychologists like Rob Hare (devised the Psychopathic Checklist) and read some books on the subject and you might find that I am right!! Certain.most psychopaths can function extremely well and there are far more psychopaths in the general public than in prisons and psychaitric units!!

Pfft.

Labels or no labels, mental dysfunction is not a predictor of success in one's endeavours.


I doubt that you are anything but simple, young man!!

Well, for what it's worth, I have precisely the same doubt about you...

[007XX]

Not really, no. I'm a simple bugger, so if I don't like someone I just thump them. Coming up with something cutting to say is pretty hard work.

:no:


:rofl: :rofl: Bwahahahahah...Oh I needed a good giggle!




I doubt that you are anything but simple, young man!!


Pfft.

Well, for what it's worth, I have precisely the same doubt about you...




:corn: Anymore room on that sofa? :girlfight:

[jrandom]

I hate bloody colonialism and I do not condone wiping out an indigineous species...

:laugh:

Yes, I'm sure the next person of Maori extraction you meet will love being referred to as an "indigineous [sic] species".

Maybe we should set aside a predator-free reservation for them to breed on!

:yes:

That'd satisfy a whole lot of post-colonial guilt.

[Bikernereid]

It really depends on how you class dysfunction, being ruthless in business may not be viewed favourably by some but would be seen as a huge asset by others.

I think that you might enjoy reading Without Conscience and Snakes in Suits as you seem to have an interest in this area. Bloody good books!!

Sometimes I think being simple is the way to go just going with the flow and not thinking to much about why we are here etc!!


Pfft.

Labels or no labels, mental dysfunction is not a predictor of success in one's endeavours.



Well, for what it's worth, I have precisely the same doubt about you...

[Bikernereid]

The more the merrier. Always love to hear other people's opinions!!


:rofl: :rofl: Bwahahahahah...Oh I needed a good giggle!








:corn: Anymore room on that sofa? :girlfight:

[Bikernereid]

I was trying not to place man above all other species and so was refering to all of 'God's creatures' as being of equal worth.

Yes colonial guilt, it is a burden but one I am happy to carry. Shows empathy for others! Hey in a few years hopefully the Yanks can take over the burden of guilt!!


:laugh:

Yes, I'm sure the next person of Maori extraction you meet will love being referred to as an "indigineous [sic] species".

Maybe we should set aside a predator-free reservation for them to breed on!

:yes:

That'd satisfy a whole lot of post-colonial guilt.

[owner]

:rofl: :rofl: Bwahahahahah...Oh I needed a good giggle!








:corn: Anymore room on that sofa? :girlfight:

Come and sit next to me 007XX:corn:

[jrandom]

Sometimes I think being simple is the way to go just going with the flow and not thinking to much...

I would never have guessed.

[007XX]

The more the merrier. Always love to hear other people's opinions!!

Thank you kindly...However in this instance, I will gladly just stand by and observe...Way too entertaining this way! :laugh:

[007XX]

Come and sit next to me 007XX:corn:

Oh cheers mate...you want some :corn:? I'm happy to share...:shifty:

[Bikernereid]

God you crack me up!!


I would never have guessed.

[jrandom]

I was trying not to place man above all other species and so was refering to all of 'God's creatures' as being of equal worth.

You're a religious vegan, then?

That fits.

:yes:

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if there is a God, and he didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

[Joni]

And this has what to do with the thread topic? Come on guys... :thud:

I have moved this to Rant and Rave already as it has moved completely away from the Biker Angel guidelines... but it is now becoming a "I'm smarter than you " thread...

[jrandom]

... it is now becoming a "I'm smarter than you " thread...

Well, it is entitled "Gender differences".

[Joni]

Well, it is entitled "Gender differences".And you represent the entire "male" gender? And Miss Nympho the entire "female" gender?

I shudder... :pinch:

[Bikernereid]

The whole idea of the thread was to try and get some female perspective but it doesn't appear that there are so many women on here today. God I would hate to think that i represented the entire species!!

I just would like to hear about other women's experiences, end of.


And you represent the entire "male" gender? And Miss Nympho the entire "female" gender?

I shudder... :pinch:

[jrandom]

The whole idea of the thread was to try and get some female perspective but it doesn't appear that there are so many women on here today.


I like me and women but prefer to hand out [sic, teehee] with men mostly, sorry!!

Sheets getting a bit crumpled in that bed you made for yourself to lie in, perchance?


God I would hate to think that i represented the entire species!!

I'm with you on that one.

[Bikernereid]

God I hate being dyslexic, it looks like it can get me into all sorts of trouble!! Is there a spell checker on here, might save some misunderstandings that way! :lol:


Sheets getting a bit crumpled in that bed you made for yourself to lie in, perchance?



I'm with you on that one.

[James Deuce]

3 things.

1. In my experience gender stereotyping is bollocks invented by feminists to try and put a negative label on fundamental gender differences, differences which aren't broken in the first place and therefore can't be fixed.

2. A lot of clever people are opting out of family life. That's why the average IQ is slowly but surely dropping.

3. Men don't compete on an equal basis for jobs, and the so called glass ceiling has been well and truely removed, it's just taking a generation or two to disappear. There are significant dents in several ares, most strongly, Teaching, Medicine, Politics and Law. Current tertiary education gender demographics in those areas make it pretty clear that men have dropped out because more women are involved.

[jrandom]

A lot of clever people are opting out of family life. That's why the average IQ is slowly but surely dropping.

:yes:

And believe me, those of us who are bucking that trend get mightily pissed off by loudmouthed, self-righteous non-breeders and their smugly low-cost lifestyles.

[007XX]

Our current economic and political status is a perfectly good example of the fact that a "woman driven" socioeconomic program is not systematically the answer...

In regards to the original question, I'm not sure that a general consensus can be reached on this...Each individual will have their own experience and point of view on the matter.

Personally, I wouldn't classify myself as a girly girl, nor as a tomboy...I'm somewhere in between, quite comfortable in the balance I have reached between the two, calling on certain attributes of either or, depending on the situation.

[Bikernereid]

Being a non-breeder is a personal choice and as someone that would not want her children to go into day care so she could work I have made my choice and stick by it. I have raised another womans children for two years and see the damage her walking out on her burden did to her children. Shame she didn't decide to be a sensible non-breeder!!


:yes:

And believe me, those of us who are bucking that trend get mightily pissed off by loudmouthed, self-righteous non-breeders and their smugly low-cost lifestyles.

[Lissa]

Ever since I was young I was always told that girls can't do things (jump out of second story bedroom windows), that girls should do things ([play with dolls, dress like a girl) and shouldn't do things (climb trees etc).


I am not sure what being feisty or stubborn has to do with what sex you are. I know alot of girls who are very outspoken and feisty (as you call it) and alot of guys who arent. It comes down to peoples personalities in the end.

As for gender differences, I suppose I was a girly girl, not that it was pushed on me, but I did like playing with barbies, and dolls, but with three older brothers i also liked to climb trees, play backyard cricket and ride my bike, have races with the boys down the street etc. I cant remember anyone (not even my brothers) telling me that I shouldnt or couldnt do anything. Maybe you shouldnt have listened to those that told you that?

[Bikernereid]

I was not bothered about reaching a consensus I was just interested to hear whether other women have ahd similar experiences, whether their gender or personality has maybe impacted upon their determination etc.

Glad to see that you have reached a balance, something that some of us are still working on. Slowly but surely!!


Our current economic and political status is a perfectly good example of the fact that a "woman driven" socioeconomic program is not systematically the answer...

In regards to the original question, I'm not sure that a general consensus can be reached on this...Each individual will have their own experience and point of view on the matter.

Personally, I wouldn't classify myself as a girly girl, nor as a tomboy...I'm somewhere in between, quite comfortable in the balance I have reached between the two, calling on certain attributes of either or, depending on the situation.

[jrandom]

Being a non-breeder is a personal choice and as someone that would not want her children to go into day care so she could work I have made my choice and stick by it.

:niceone:

The world needs more women just like you.


I have raised another womans children for two years and see the damage her walking out on her burden did to her children. Shame she didn't decide to be a sensible non-breeder!!

Yeah, I bet those kids are looking for a shotgun right now, so that they can give it a blowjob and reverse her terrible mistake.

:yes:

[James Deuce]

I cant remember anyone (not even my brothers) telling me that I shouldnt or couldnt do anything. Maybe you shouldnt have listened to those that told you that?
Same here. I rather suspect the belief that people were told how they should behave as small children (in an entirely non-gender specific fashion) is entirely a product of militant feminst propaganda. Plus there's a bell curve involved in all aspects of human behaviour and I wouldn't be surprised if most motorcycling women, either pillion or rider, exhibited a DNA profile that is demonstrably different to the middle of the Female DNA risk aversion bell curve.

[Bikernereid]

I do not know when you grew up but as a girl growing up in the UK in the 70s there was still a lot of gender bias against women. I am please that I listened to what people told me I couldn't do as it spurred me on to see just what I could achieve and do if I put my mind to it. Not always with the best result; jumping out of the window, getting friction burns and landing on concrete and not the crash mat was not one of my finer moments!!

But I think growing up when I did has helped to shape the person I am today, not perfect but someone who like to get out there, try and do new things and push the envelope.


I am not sure what being feisty or stubborn has to do with what sex you are. I know alot of girls who are very outspoken and feisty (as you call it) and alot of guys who arent. It comes down to peoples personalities in the end.

As for gender differences, I suppose I was a girly girl, not that it was pushed on me, but I did like playing with barbies, and dolls, but with three older brothers i also liked to climb trees, play backyard cricket and ride my bike, have races with the boys down the street etc. I cant remember anyone (not even my brothers) telling me that I shouldnt or couldnt do anything. Maybe you shouldnt have listened to those that told you that?

[James Deuce]

Shame she didn't decide to be a sensible non-breeder!!

You're actually suggesting that a majority of mothers in NZ shouldn't have had kids. Thanks to a number of demographic and economic issues, most two parent families can't get by without both parents working, and most single parent families are headed by a women who has to work if she doesn't want to make having babies a job.

[Beemer]

My parents were both sulkers - instead of yelling and getting things over and done with, they would make snide remarks and then not speak to each other for days and in some cases, weeks! I grew up hating that bullshit so I tend to tell it like it is and then get on with my life. I have red hair but it's not natural so I get really pissed off when people say I am feisty. I'm not, I just don't take any crap from anyone!

I think there is a fine line between not taking any crap and being obnoxious. I have worked with people who say they like to get things out in the open but that often takes the form of belittling other people and being a bully.

My mother was a home-body - she had a few part-time jobs while I was growing up but most of the time she was home at lunchtime and after school. She baked, sewed, knitted, etc and never played any sport or had any outside interests. I may have taken after her in some respects (damn good cook and I can knit anything) but I have always been quite adventurous and interested in things that are not female dominated, like karate, land yachting, car rallying, tattoos, etc. I grew up loving bikes because my brother had one but I wasn't allowed one when I was at high school. Same with cats - my mother didn't really like them so I didn't get one until I was in my twenties.

I hope I grew up with my own personality and not someone else's, and if other people don't like it, that's their problem, not mine!

[Number One]

Being a non-breeder is a personal choice and as someone that would not want her children to go into day care so she could work I have made my choice and stick by it. I have raised another womans children for two years and see the damage her walking out on her burden did to her children. Shame she didn't decide to be a sensible non-breeder!!

Owww - you are skimming it close to the bone there honey!

I would reflect the comment Jrandom made just before about how non-breeders mouthing off really gets up the noses of those of us who do decide to go the family route. AND on top of that to suggest in a rather self righteous manner that it is a smart choice to not have kids cos you don't want to hand them over to someone else to raise - what a crock!!!! Watch what you say - there are alot of working mums and dads out there and we aren't all raising emotionally neglected latch key kids! NOR do we sign over RAISING rights to the teachers who look after our babies 'during business hours'!

I work fulltime and my boy does go to daycare but guess what? He seems alot happier in daycare with all the other kiddies around, excellent activities, lovely teachers, good resources and is learning off his peers much faster than he was when he was stuck at home with boring old mum. Plus I am a happier mummy that has more too give - energy is weird like that!

Do I wish everyday that I could AFFORD to stay home with my boy YES but is there value in him watching me go off to work, earn a living and so doing help provide the lifestyle we have, ride a bike (sensibly) for fun WHILE still allowing him some space to develop in this world without mum & dad always there watching his every move (still keep a good close eye on things however) - HELL YES there is value in that. Nothing against the stay at home mums and dads - think you all deserve a medal actually and I don't want to suggest there isn't value in that - there bloody is! But there is merit in both lifestyle choices but to suggest you can't do a child right by either approach is crap and to say that has ruled your choice about whether you have them or not is SAD! Kids are a huge gift and while there are sacrifices/compromises to be made deciding to not have kids cos you the prospect of giving up your bikes or lifestyle is too much to stomach you just don't get it....may you never have kids if that really is where you are coming from.

Rant over - deep breaths being taken now...

[007XX]

Owww - you are skimming it close to the bone there honey!

I would reflect the comment Jrandom made just before about how non-breeders mouthing off really gets up the noses of those of us who do decide to go the family route. AND on top of that to suggest in a rather self righteous manner that it is a smart choice to not have kids cos you don't want to hand them over to someone else to raise - what a crock!!!! Watch what you say - there are alot of working mums and dads out there and we aren't all raising emotionally neglected latch key kids! NOR do we sign over RAISING rights to the teachers who look after our babies 'during business hours'!

I work fulltime and my boy does go to daycare but guess what? He seems alot happier in daycare with all the other kiddies around, excellent activities, lovely teachers, good resources and is learning off his peers much faster than he was when he was stuck at home with boring old mum. Plus I am a happier mummy that has more too give - energy is weird like that!

Do I wish everyday that I could AFFORD to stay home with my boy YES but is there value in him watching me go off to work, earn a living and so doing help provide the lifestyle we have, ride a bike (sensibly) for fun WHILE still allowing him some space to develop in this world without mum & dad always there watching his every move (still keep a good close eye on things however) - HELL YES there is value in that. Nothing against the stay at home mums and dads - think you all deserve a medal actually and I don't want to suggest there isn't value in that - there bloody is! But there is merit in both lifestyle choices but to suggest you can't do a child right by either approach is crap and to say that has ruled your choice about whether you have them or not is SAD! Kids are a huge gift and while there are sacrifices/compromises to be made deciding to not have kids cos you the prospect of giving up your bikes or lifestyle is too much to stomach you just don't get it....may you never have kids if that really is where you are coming from.

Rant over - deep breaths being taken now...

Lily, I am sure you are not trying to be offending, but you honnestly have to try and be a bit more careful about how you formulate your opinions. And no, I don't think that being dyslexic stops you from being capable to proof read your posts and try to imagine how they will be received by the people whom it concerns.

Having an opinion is fine, and being honnest is even finer a quality...but this smacks of the "foot in mouth" disease.

[Bikernereid]

How dare you say such a horrible thing about two beautiful and lovely children. Considering that their mother perceives then to be a burden which got in the way of her career and shagging her boss I think they are remarkable. I miss them a great deal, they brough joy into my life if only for a short while and I would never want anything bad to happen to them!!


:niceone:

The world needs more women just like you.



Yeah, I bet those kids are looking for a shotgun right now, so that they can give it a blowjob and reverse her terrible mistake.

:yes:

[Bikernereid]

I would never have a go at someone for choosing a different way in life to me. I personally would chose to be a stay at home mum if I had children but that is my choice and it does not suit everyone. I just do not like the fact that two beautiful children were dumped by a mother who should have thought more about the consequences of her actions before having what she terms 'burdens'. Children are never a burden and should be a joy. If she wanted to have a career and the life style she has adopted after walking out on her kids then she shouldn't have had them in the first place. Kids are for life, they are not accessories!!

If people wish to have children that is their choice but I get sick and tired of people having a go about women such as myself who decide to opt out of having a family as if it something to be ashamed of. I would rather not have kids than have them for (1) the wrong reason, (2) because everyone else is doing it and (3) because I feel pressured into it.


Lily, I am sure you are not trying to be offending, but you honnestly have to try and be a bit more careful about how you formulate your opinions. And no, I don't think that being dyslexic stops you from being capable to proof read your posts and try to imagine how they will be received by the people whom it concerns.

Having an opinion is fine, and being honnest is even finer a quality...but this smacks of the "foot in mouth" disease.

[James Deuce]

I think Mr Jrandom's "feisty" analysis was on the money.

So it's OK for you to over-generalise, but if the barometer dares to shift slightly in your direction we get an over-paranoid rant back?

Where have I seen this before?

Hmmmm.

It's an old tale, I know how it will work out, but good luck with it.

[Bikernereid]

I am not ranting or over generalising I am just saying that I think that my exes ex-wife should have thought about how having children would affect her life and career before having them. What is so out there about such a statement. I think that if she had thought more wisely she would have have had a 5 y/o son seeing a child psychologist!!

Why is thining about the welfare and well-being of children classes as being a rant!! I would have thought that caring so much about another woman's children and raising them is something to be encouraged not bicthed at for!!


I think Mr Jrandom's "feisty" analysis was on the money.

So it's OK for you to over-generalise, but if the barometer dares to shift slightly in your direction we get an over-paranoid rant back?

Where have I seen this before?

Hmmmm.

It's an old tale, I know how it will work out, but good luck with it.

[Number One]

Being a non-breeder is a personal choice and as someone that would not want her children to go into day care so she could work I have made my choice and stick by it. I have raised another womans children for two years and see the damage her walking out on her burden did to her children. Shame she didn't decide to be a sensible non-breeder!!

Ok already been here and will again - sorry....But what irks me here is that it seems you suggest a view that parents who don't have things set up to your perfect idea must be Stupid Breeders. Probably you ascribe to the theory that only bored and lonely people have kids too....hope for your sake that isn't the case.


I am not ranting or over generalising I am just saying that I think that my exes ex-wife should have thought about how having children would affect her life and career before having them.

Again spoken like a true 'sensible non-breeder'....I don't believe you are ever fully prepared and sometimes things don't fit into that perfect ideal we all have...sadly but that's life! And do you know the circumstances of said inception?


What is so out there about such a statement. I think that if she had thought more wisely she would have have had a 5 y/o son seeing a child psychologist!!

Why is thinking about the welfare and well-being of children classes as being a rant!! I would have thought that caring so much about another woman's children and raising them is something to be encouraged not bicthed at for!!

Agree that thinking about it is important and good on you for caring however that isn't the track you've been taking sweety. You seem to be sure you couldn't and wouldn't do it so are you really standing on strong legs to be throwing your own judgements around? :nono: AND what are we all here for anyway?

[Str8 Jacket]

I am not ranting or over generalising

Umm, yes, yes you are. In fact you do it quite a bit. Dunno why but if it's attention that you're after then you may as well stick to flashing ya bits..... Sorry but you're getting to be quite annoying, you dont really know anyone and you say you would like to so I suggest you actually *try*.

[Bikernereid]

I am not saying that breeders are stupid, I love my parents (dad R.I.P.) and thank them for being so good at bringin me up!! I am saying that the exes ex-wife is a dumb selfish bitch and as I know her I know that this is an accurate statement!

What is wrong about saying that people should maybe think more about the impact that children will have upon thier lives before having them? I am not saying there is an ideal set-up for having children I just hated seeing a 3 and 5 year old so damaged by the selfish actions of thier mother.

I do not think that lonely and sad people are the only ones that have kids and have never said anything like that!! I know some truley amazing parents and I also know some who should never have been allowed to have them!!

Don't get your last comment. I raised my exes kids for two years even though I never want to have my own. I loved them and always put them first even though they were not mine and never begrudged doing it. There are few things in life that can compare to a small adorable little boy telling you he loves you or seeing the look of pride on a little girl's face after you have been teaching her to ride her bike and she does it for the first time without stabilisers.

I am just aware that so many people who end up in prison or in psych units are there in part as a result of bad parenting or parental neglect and I would like to see this happen less.


Ok already been here and will again - sorry....But what irks me here is that it seems you suggest a view that oreparents who don't have things set up to your perfect idea must be Stupid Breeders. Probably you ascribe to the theory that only bored and lonely people have kids too....hope for your sake that isn't the case.



Again spoken like a true 'sensible non-breeder'....I don't believe you are ever fully prepared and sometimes things don't fit into that perfect ideal we all have...sadly but that's life! And do you know the circumstances of said inception?



Agree that thinking about it is important and good on you for caring however that isn't the track you've been taking sweety. You seem to be sure you couldn't and wouldn't do it so are you really standing on strong legs to be throwing your own judgements around? :nono: AND what are we all here for anyway?

[Str8 Jacket]

Hey Nimpho chick, giving me red for a post in a thread regarding fiestiness and being able to stand up for yourself as a "chick" but not you being able to respond in public is a bit against what you are trying to say here isnt it? By the way it is my opinion that you are opinionated, fiesty is one thing but nasty is another.... I can be both and more.

[Bikernereid]

My cousin died in child birth and her husband raised thier son with the help and support of my family. I would never disrespect that he had to work and how he raised his son, he is a credit to him!!

I do not have an issue with single parents or couple's working at all, it is a matter of preference. To each his own!!


You're actually suggesting that a majority of mothers in NZ shouldn't have had kids. Thanks to a number of demographic and economic issues, most two parent families can't get by without both parents working, and most single parent families are headed by a women who has to work if she doesn't want to make having babies a job.

[Number One]

I am not saying that breeders are stupid, I love my parents (dad R.I.P.) and thank them for being so good at bringin me up!! I am saying that the exes ex-wife is a dumb selfish bitch and as I know her I know that this is an accurate statement!

Please don't catch me on one of my 'bad mother days' and then tell everyone on here about it....I can come across as a dumb, selfish bitch too!


What is wrong about saying that people should maybe think more about the impact that children will have upon thier lives before having them? I am not saying there is an ideal set-up for having children I just hated seeing a 3 and 5 year old so damaged by the selfish actions of thier mother. .

Apart from the specifics of said 3 & 5 year old again - do you know the details of said inception...can you really be in a possition to suggest she didn't think about it? Do YOU know what it is like to have a child forever, to have carried it to have given birth to have that TRUE sense of forever as a parent. Make that two children....how helpful was daddy (where was daddy?) Why does only mummy wear this judgement....how perfect was this bloke...why is that only mummies cause their kids to end up in the looney bin?! Youa re right it is heartbreaking to know that kids are missing out!


I do not think that lonely and sad people are the only ones that have kids and have never said anything like that!! I know some truley amazing parents and I also know some who should never have been allowed to have them!! .

Again, please don't catch me on a 'bad mother day'.


Don't get your last comment. I raised my exes kids for two years even though I never want to have my own. I loved them and always put them first even though they were not mine and never begrudged doing it. There are few things in life that can compare to a small adorable little boy telling you he loves you or seeing the look of pride on a little girl's face after you have been teaching her to ride her bike and she does it for the first time without stabilisers.

Kids rock :niceone: and they are trying at times


I am just aware that so many people who end up in prison or in psych units are there in part as a result of bad parenting or parental neglect and I would like to see this happen less.

OF course it's cos of bad parenting...we couldn't possible ever grow enough self awareness, discipline, humilty and capacity to learn so as to rise above our own upbringings. AND there are other things that f*ck people up too such as drugs and society and the media and people unrelated to you ooo and lets not forget Heavy Metal music.

I don't disagree with your sentiments in this post (per se) but you were having a rant but worst of all...AGAIN please don't meet me on a 'bad mother day' and put it up here for everyone to discuss!

Sorry and one other thing...it's as if you seem to assume that you can only do it right one way...by staying at home. Your judgement of the woman in question is based on your own prejudices and as you clearly are not keen to have kids yourself right now as it would well let's face it you have intimated screw up yer life.....that doesn't give you right to publicly diss someone else - even if she was yer witchy ex sista in law...one day the worm turns....

[Str8 Jacket]

My cousin died in child birth and her husband raised thier son with the help and support of my family. I would never disrespect that he had to work and how he raised his son, he is a credit to him!!

I do not have an issue with single parents or couple's working at all, it is a matter of preference. To each his own!!

It appears that you have been through EVERYTHING under the sun. Im surprised that you get outta bed in the morning..... You sure that you're taking your meds? Are you doing physch so that you can prescribe your own?

[Bikernereid]

I do not appreciate the comment regarding flashing my bits, it is a pic and as far as I can see there is nothing offensive on show there. My opinion is something else and I believe in freedom of speech. People do not have to like what others say but they should at least respect what they say! Look what has happened in NZ recently and that great example of democracy stopping people having their political opinion voiced before an election.


Hey Nimpho chick, giving me red for a post in a thread regarding fiestiness and being able to stand up for yourself as a "chick" but not you being able to respond in public is a bit against what you are trying to say here isnt it? By the way it is my opinion that you are opinionated, fiesty is one thing but nasty is another.... I can be both and more.

[Str8 Jacket]

I do not appreciate the comment regarding flashing my bits, it is a pic and as far as I can see there is nothing offensive on show there. My opinion is something else and I believe in freedom of speech. People do not have to like what others say but they should at least respect what they say! Look what has happened in NZ recently and that great example of democracy stopping people having their political opinion voiced before an election.

:moon: <<<< And that is all I have to say to you. Im gonna go live my *real* life now.

[Bikernereid]

My family has been through a lot; what doen't kill you makes you stronger and gives you a very different outlook on life! Why shouldn't I get out of the bed in the morning; I have a great life, an amazing family, awesome friends, two cats I adore and life is for living, embracing and cherishing.

And as a psychologist you can't prescribe meds, it is psychiatrists that prescribe!!


It appears that you have been through EVERYTHING under the sun. Im surprised that you get outta bed in the morning..... You sure that you're taking your meds? Are you doing physch so that you can prescribe your own?

[chanceyy]

:rofl: :rofl: Bwahahahahah...Oh I needed a good giggle!


:corn: Anymore room on that sofa? :girlfight:


Come and sit next to me 007XX:corn:

hey guys move over :jerry::jerry: love a good :girlfight:

[Number One]

hey guys move over :jerry::jerry: love a good :girlfight:

Oh my god..why am I bothering? Brain fade! I'm outy - got a Ladies bucket racing team and series to arrange! :clap:

[007XX]

hey guys move over :jerry::jerry: love a good :girlfight:

Always have room for you my dear!

C'mon Owner, shuffle over ya bugger...:whistle:

[007XX]

Oh my god..why am I bothering? Brain fade! I'm outy - got a Ladies bucket racing team and series to arrange! :clap:

Now, now sweetheart...you did good! and for what it's worth, I was with you on all posts! :niceone:

I stopped cos I was starting to loose focus on my attempts at diplomacy :rolleyes:

[chanceyy]

Oh my god..why am I bothering? Brain fade! I'm outy - got a Ladies bucket racing team and series to arrange! :clap:

I am with you honey .. :chase:

[KATWYN]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if there is a God, and he didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

Scary. People are made out of meat as well....yikes

[PrincessBandit]

Scary. People are made out of meat as well....yikes

:rofl: reminds me of the line in that movie Zathura (the follow on from Jumanji) where the kid gets told that the lizard creatures eat meat and "we're meat!"

[Bikernereid]

I understand that you guys have recently lost some area of freedom of speech, please do not let the internet be another area where you do have have the capacity to say what you really think and believe.

I may not like or agree with that you say but I will always respect your opinion and right to say what you think. I just hope that you do not feel the need to censor yourself as people have died so that we have freedom and liberty.

I just wish that when people are going to quote what another person has said they use the entire quote so that an appropriate view can be achieved. Giving a abbreviated version of someone elses opinion will never give a true perspective.


Now, now sweetheart...you did good! and for what it's worth, I was with you on all posts! :niceone:

I stopped cos I was starting to loose focus on my attempts at diplomacy :rolleyes:

[KATWYN]

I suppose I was a girly girl, not that it was pushed on me, but I did like playing with barbies, and dolls, but with three older brothers i also liked to climb trees, play backyard cricket and ride my bike, have races with the boys down the street etc.

There you go. I have seen a comment or two on here about being balanced.

I reakon thats exactly what tomboyism is about. A girl grows into a woman well adjusted. On one hand she has developed nurturing qualities (which socially is viewed as submissive and passive) and on the other hand she has developed assertiveness (boldness and confidence)

and it is probably the same for boys that play as boys but also like to dress up in girls clothes and play with dolls...they develop the same balance??

Maybe describing oneself as "feisty" from a female perspective should be veiwed more positively in that they are confident, self assured and assertive.

[Trudes]

There you go. I have seen a comment or two on here about being balanced.

I reakon thats exactly what tomboyism is about. A girl grows into a woman well adjusted. On one hand she has developed nurturing qualities (which socially is viewed as submissive and passive) and on the other hand she has developed assertiveness (boldness and confidence)

and it is probably the same for boys that are boys but also like to dress up in girls clothes and play with dolls...they develop the same balance??

Maybe describing oneself as "feisty" from a female perspective should be veiwed more positively in that they are confident, self assured and assertive.

Some sense at last, thanks Katwyn!!! Labels suck.....
Remember ladies, it's not a competition, at the end of the day we should all be on the same side and not trying to one up each other (as much as it's fun to see people who think they are better than everyone else get cut down to size). Have :apint:

[Bikernereid]

From what I have read boys who dress up when younger have a far more advanced reading capability than those boys who do not. They believe that this is related to the theory of mind principle in that the boys who dress up can put themselves in other people's position and this helps them to understand the thoughts, feeling and emotions of others. This may lead these boys to be more balanced later in life but not sure about that.

Hear hear for the tomboy comment. Best of both worlds, maybe?!


There you go. I have seen a comment or two on here about being balanced.

I reakon thats exactly what tomboyism is about. A girl grows into a woman well adjusted. On one hand she has developed nurturing qualities (which socially is viewed as submissive and passive) and on the other hand she has developed assertiveness (boldness and confidence)

and it is probably the same for boys that play as boys but also like to dress up in girls clothes and play with dolls...they develop the same balance??

Maybe describing oneself as "feisty" from a female perspective should be veiwed more positively in that they are confident, self assured and assertive.

[Beemer]

Shit, this thread became interesting, didn't it!

For the record, I've never been maternal and never wanted kids. Not because I have such a fantastic career that I don't want to ruin my lifestyle but because I am not one of those women who think that breeding is compulsory. I wish more people felt like me because a lot of women have kids when they really don't want them and they don't treat them that well as a result.

As for not having kids because you don't want to leave them in day care, etc, that is a bit old-fashioned. I know if I had had kids, there is no way I'd want to be with them 24/7, it would drive me around the bend!

It's not often I agree with St8jacket but you are not feisty, you're opinionated and appear to be looking for a fight. And I think you've found one...;)

[Lissa]

As for not having kids because you don't want to leave them in day care, etc, that is a bit old-fashioned. I know if I had had kids, there is no way I'd want to be with them 24/7, it would drive me around the bend!
Hmm have to agree, I actually did lose my mind being a full time mum, not my kids fault, but after being a 24/7 mum to three kids, with a 3 day holiday (with the kids) in the space of ten years, I truly lost the plot, and became extremely unhappy. Me unhappy = Kids unhappy. I now have a semi-part time job that I LOVE, I have responsibilities other than changing nappies and I am extremely happy and feel fulfilled, as well as the feeling that I have been let out of a self inflicted jail . Might sound extreme and I absolutely adore my children, but I think I am a better mum for getting a job, and my kids are healthy and happy and love me to pieces, life couldnt get better than that.

[Bikernereid]

My mum was a stay at home mum until we went to school and then she worked part-time until we were at high school and dad was home when we got home. I think that this was a good choice and if I were to have had kids I guess I would have done the same thing.

If you are happy and that = your kids being happy that is great and I can understand and agree with you completely. As I have said it is all about PERSONAL preference.

I just have said that I wish some people thought more about what impact children might have on thier lives before having them! I have two cats and they impact upon what I can do and when so kids will most definitely impact too.


Hmm have to agree, I actually did lose my mind being a full time mum, not my kids fault, but after being a 24/7 mum to three kids, with a 3 day holiday (with the kids) in the space of ten years, I truly lost the plot, and became extremely unhappy. Me unhappy = Kids unhappy. I now have a semi-part time job that I LOVE, I have responsibilities other than changing nappies and I am extremely happy and feel fulfilled, as well as the feeling that I have been let out of a self inflicted jail . Might sound extreme and I absolutely adore my children, but I think I am a better mum for getting a job, and my kids are healthy and happy and love me to pieces, life couldnt get better than that.

[vifferman]

Hmm have to agree, I actually did lose my mind being a full time mum, not my kids fault, but after being a 24/7 mum to three kids, with a 3 day holiday (with the kids) in the space of ten years, I truly lost the plot, and became extremely unhappy.
I know how that feels - I was a 'househusband' for about two and a half years, and while I loved things like walking the kids to school, and doing some part-time programming, the loneliness just about broke me. At least if you're a housewife, you can in theory have coffee with other mums, talk about things, etc., I didn't have those options. It was very good from the point of view that it was a VERY difficult time for #2 Son, so I got to spend hours and hours at school with him, go on school trips, help out in cooking, metalwork and woodwork classes etc., but it was still very tough.
On the other hand, my wife loved being a mum, and stopped working when #1 was about 1 year old, then returned to work when #3 was five. In between, she home-schooled our mutants for a few years.
On the other other hand, she really resents the housewife phase now, as it's totally fX0rd her career. Now she's recently found out that all her years of tax accounting experience don't actually count for much, as even for bean counters it's looks, ambition and greed that seem to make the difference. Her boss more or less said that even though she's YEARS off retirement age, as far as The Beanies are concerned, she's only got a couple of years left in her. That's just fucking rude, to be quite blunt. :argh: :angry2: :bash:

So that's one of the things people don't tell you, but I'm telling you now.
If you take a few years off to "do the big OE" or go navel-gazing in Kathmandu or whatever, it may well enhance your career. However, throw a couple of years of something unselfish like sprog farming or caring for an unwell relative in, and you're toast, especially if you're female.

[Lissa]

I am a mum, but I am also other things as well. The best thing to do when having children is to be the best you can be, and dont fall into other people ideals of what a good parent is. Some people think being a good parent is giving your kids as much material stuff as you can afford or not afford, thats crap, its about raising your kids to be great adults, you dont need STUFF to do that. Sure when you have kids you do have to put them before yourself sometimes, but thats healthy right?

[Number One]

I just have said that I wish some people thought more about what impact children might have on thier lives before having them! .

Agree totally - however not everyone has the luxury of 'thinking about' it and with all the thought you (parents) put into what it will be like and all the advise and horror stories you get told (some people just love to do that!) you still never come close to exactly what it will be like for any one set of parents, and how they will actually feel or cope with the situation....+ every child is different.

We were quite planned with our boy and he is fantastic, but it has changed us as people, it has changed our relationship and he has had his own troubles...nothing ever works out to plan especially with kids! AND we have it good - I dread to think how unhappy couples cope - poor buggers!

If anyone makes a decision on having kids because they think they 'have it all sorted and know what they are truly in for' they are dreaming! You have to be a pretty flexible person who can be happy and make the best of everything that comes along to cope I think and too much planning can just cause disappointment and feelings of inadequacy. Having kids i have learnt is alot about guilt, if you aren't prepared to put someone else ahead of you alot of the time for the rest of your time - you shouldn't do it...full stop as the guilt will drive you mad.


I have two cats and they impact upon what I can do and when so kids will most definitely impact too.

Ya think?

[Lissa]

I know how that feels - I was a 'househusband' for about two and a half years, and while I loved things like walking the kids to school, and doing some part-time programming, the loneliness just about broke me. At least if you're a housewife, you can in theory have coffee with other mums, talk about things, etc., I didn't have those options. It was very good from the point of view that it was a VERY difficult time for #2 Son, so I got to spend hours and hours at school with him, go on school trips, help out in cooking, metalwork and woodwork classes etc., but it was still very tough.
Yep I was extremely lonely esp when you get told that hey it cant be all that bad, as you arent ACTUALLY having to get up each day and go to work, but for me it was worse, I would have traded places with the garbage man. Sorry about what is happening to your wife. I hadnt worked for ten years and I am absolutely in my element, I hope maybe your wife can find someone else who can take her on and appreciate her a bit better.

[KATWYN]

Well I swore for most of my life I was not going to have children; there was absolutely NO WAY, the thought of motherhood and me was chalk and cheese. I felt like the most unmaternal person in the world.

No way in hell was I ready for motherhood at 35 years old...or 36..... or 37....until I hit 38.

My motivation for having a baby is not because thats what people do, but
because I personally have had a great life so far and I wanted to pass on the opportunity for somebody else to enjoy (what they do with their life will be their business).

So at 38 years old I am a few weeks away from bringing this new person into this world.

But I completely understand a lot of the comments in here about being a breeder. I just hope I am never placed into that catagory now.

[Bikernereid]

I think that it is great that you sound so happy about being a parent. It sounds, and I hope that I am not presuming or being patronising that you have come to being a parent for some very good and sound reasons.

I personally do not want to have children because it has taken me 13 years to finally get to begin to work towards the career that I want to spend the rest of my life doing. I have spent a lot of time weighing up the pros and cons (for me) of having children and I have decided that trying to manage a career and be a stay at home mum (until kids are of the right age to go back to work, in my opinion) is not for me. And I do not judge anyone who does things differently to how I would.

My issue has always been about people having children for the wrong reasons and the children being the ones to suffer as a consequence. Adults can deal with their partner leaving a whole lot better than young children whose mother abandons then because she sees them as being a chore, burden ann getting in the ay of her career and having an affair with her boss (personal experience, I am not picking on women in general).

I have a great deal of respect for anyone who puts a child before themselves and wants to share thier experiences with their children. Good on you and I hope that your child is health and will bring you many years of joy and happiness.


Well I swore for most of my life I was not going to have children; there was absolutely NO WAY, the thought of motherhood and me was chalk and cheese. I felt like the most unmaternal person in the world.

No way in hell was I ready for motherhood at 35 years old...or 36..... or 37....until I hit 38.

My motivation for having a baby is not because thats what people do, but
because I personally have had a great life so far and I wanted to pass on the opportunity for somebody else to enjoy (what they do with their life will be their business).

So at 38 years old I am a few weeks away from bringing this new person into this world.

But I completely understand a lot of the comments in here about being a breeder. I just hope I am never placed into that catagory now.

[007XX]

I personally do not want to have children because it has taken me 13 years to finally get to begin to work towards the career that I want to spend the rest of my life doing. I have spent a lot of time weighing up the pros and cons (for me) of having children and I have decided that trying to manage a career and be a stay at home mum (until kids are of the right age to go back to work, in my opinion) is not for me. And I do not judge anyone who does things differently to how I would.

And good for you too. I agree that the impact of having children should be considered before one gets into making little ones, however wuite often, no one can actually prepare you for the said impact. I know it is possible to do both, but I have not met many women who managed both a career and children. Big respect to anyone who does, because I know I couldn't do it.



My issue has always been about people having children for the wrong reasons and the children being the ones to suffer as a consequence.


I completely agree with this. I have also been of that mind that too many have children "lightly". When i was living in Orewa (north of Auckland) about 12 years ago, I met this lovely young woman called Kylie. She was gorgeous to look at, funny and the mum of an adorable 3 year old little boy who was just a darling. After about 5 months of knowing her, she tells me she is moving to OZ to live, and when I asked about her son, she said he wouldn't be coming with her but would be living from then on with her mum. It would appear she couldn't see herself as a mother anymore :shit:(her words).

The last time I saw the little guy was about 5 years ago, adn he hadn't heard or seen his mother since she had left for OZ.

I just cannot comprehend someone doing this. I would honestly rather die than leave my boy.

[Grahameeboy]

And good for you too. I agree that the impact of having children should be considered before one gets into making little ones, however wuite often, no one can actually prepare you for the said impact. I know it is possible to do both, but I have not met many women who managed both a career and children. Big respect to anyone who does, because I know I couldn't do it.




I completely agree with this. I have also been of that mind that too many have children "lightly". When i was living in Orewa (north of Auckland) about 12 years ago, I met this lovely young woman called Kylie. She was gorgeous to look at, funny and the mum of an adorable 3 year old little boy who was just a darling. After about 5 months of knowing her, she tells me she is moving to OZ to live, and when I asked about her son, she said he wouldn't be coming with her but would be living from then on with her mum. It would appear she couldn't see herself as a mother anymore :shit:(her words).

The last time I saw the little guy was about 5 years ago, adn he hadn't heard or seen his mother since she had left for OZ.

I just cannot comprehend someone doing this. I would honestly rather die than leave my boy.

Geeze, what is this Mum like not seeing her Son.........:calm:

[Bikernereid]

it is all down to the individual I guess. What irked me about the exes ex-wife was that she was someone who measured herself by what others thought of her and she got married and had the kids because everyone else was doing it. I have no experience of having my own children but after bringing up hers I have more of an understanding of the impact they have. I think anyone who goes into parenthood thinking that thier lives will be exactly the same as before is a little nuts. I think that maybe people considering having a family might want to consider fostering first. maybe they would have a better idea of what they are getting themselves into and it would hopefully give some lovely children the chance of love and a sense of being wanted.

Not being a mother myself I can only speak as a 'step-mum' but I could not understand how the mother could leave her kids. I remeber being in a car accident with Hannah in the back and my first thought was not my bloody car but oh my God is Hannah ok. That is when I really understood how it feels to really put a child before youself and to do it autmatically and without resentment.


And good for you too. I agree that the impact of having children should be considered before one gets into making little ones, however wuite often, no one can actually prepare you for the said impact. I know it is possible to do both, but I have not met many women who managed both a career and children. Big respect to anyone who does, because I know I couldn't do it.




I completely agree with this. I have also been of that mind that too many have children "lightly". When i was living in Orewa (north of Auckland) about 12 years ago, I met this lovely young woman called Kylie. She was gorgeous to look at, funny and the mum of an adorable 3 year old little boy who was just a darling. After about 5 months of knowing her, she tells me she is moving to OZ to live, and when I asked about her son, she said he wouldn't be coming with her but would be living from then on with her mum. It would appear she couldn't see herself as a mother anymore :shit:(her words).

The last time I saw the little guy was about 5 years ago, adn he hadn't heard or seen his mother since she had left for OZ.

I just cannot comprehend someone doing this. I would honestly rather die than leave my boy.

[Grahameeboy]

it is all down to the individual I guess. What irked me about the exes ex-wife was that she was someone who measured herself by what others thought of her and she got married and had the kids because everyone else was doing it. I have no experience of having my own children but after bringing up hers I have more of an understanding of the impact they have. I think anyone who goes into parenthood thinking that thier lives will be exactly the same as before is a little nuts. I think that maybe people considering having a family might want to consider fostering first. maybe they would have a better idea of what they are getting themselves into and it would hopefully give some lovely children the chance of love and a sense of being wanted.

Not being a mother myself I can only speak as a 'step-mum' but I could not understand how the mother could leave her kids. I remeber being in a car accident with Hannah in the back and my first thought was not my bloody car but oh my God is Hannah ok. That is when I really understood how it feels to really put a child before youself and to do it autmatically and without resentment.

I guess like life, you don't know till you have kids how you will deal with things.

I know despite Nats disablity, I would not change her for the world....just a bit more to deal with but it is what you make of life, not what you want life to make for you.....

[007XX]

it is all down to the individual I guess. What irked me about the exes ex-wife was that she was someone who measured herself by what others thought of her and she got married and had the kids because everyone else was doing it. I have no experience of having my own children but after bringing up hers I have more of an understanding of the impact they have. I think anyone who goes into parenthood thinking that thier lives will be exactly the same as before is a little nuts. I think that maybe people considering having a family might want to consider fostering first. maybe they would have a better idea of what they are getting themselves into and it would hopefully give some lovely children the chance of love and a sense of being wanted.


Although the idea of foster children going with people who are not yet parents themselves is a good one in theory, I don't think the actual results would be so good. Foster kids usually come from distabilised family from what I understand, and therefor need parents who have prior experience, to ensure stability and proper parenting methods are being practiced (that's in theory too obviously).

Also, I don't think that getting foster kids would help the "new parents" in any way...except maybe as a very effective method of contraception :laugh:

No one can prepare you for what parenthood is like. If you were told, you'd never do it! And yes, I speak from experience....but I don't regret it, and yes, maybe I'll do it again! :D



Geeze, what is this Mum like not seeing her Son.........:calm:

I tried really, really hard not to judge people...but trust me, I was very angry with her, and told her so, as she had no reason for leaving the little guy. He was not a difficult child either. She had not gotten pregnant with him through rape or anything like that either. She ahd wanted him while in a relationship with some loser, then when he'd left her, she just gave up. It really made me sick to my stomach.

[Number One]

I think that maybe people considering having a family might want to consider fostering first. maybe they would have a better idea of what they are getting themselves into and it would hopefully give some lovely children the chance of love and a sense of being wanted.

mmm yeah that's an excellent idea!

Let's all practise on the fosterkids! When we realise we don't really want kids, or that one in particular or whatever we can just toss them back, safe in the knowledge we didn't mess their whole lives up. What the hey they are used to the false hope that comes from being shunted around.

Maybe people should think about it a bit more before fostering too? Maybe they should get a virtual pet and have to sit a licensetoo....