Cornering/ committment question

[TonyB]

Since there are a few racers of note lurking within KB, I thought I'd ask a question directed at those at the pointy end of the field...

I went out to Ruapuna for the nationals- couldn't race, so I thought I'd watch and learn. I moved around the track, watching how the best in NZ take the corners at my local track.

I was over at the Kink/ Pothole, when I noticed something that would appear to indicate that the fast guys are committed in a huge way, that I will probably NEVER be prepared to do. It looked to me like the front runners were taking the corner at such a speed that even with max lean angle, there was no way they would EVER make the corner without getting on the gas HARD and using the power to significantly tighten the line. It looked like even the tiniest hesitation or roll off would send them out onto the grass.

So was I right? Is this what you have to do?

[Doogle]

Yes Tony thats what you have to do.Look at it this way.They have a tool available to then to help them go faster. That tool being the power of the bikes ability to tighten things up.

[TonyB]

So they are hard on the brakes right up to the apex- that part I can do.
But the speed they are slowing down to is actually too fast to make the corner without loads of throttle to bring the back end around....not sure I can do THAT part. Respect to those than can.

[007XX]

I cam e to a similar conclusion when observing Craig Shiriff at both Taupo and Wanganui.

I seriously lack the testosterone (and balls :sweatdrop) to ride like that...

Very big respect to those who can.

[HDTboy]

That's definitely the theory of it. What's the point of having a massively overpowered rear drive vehicle if you're not going to use it's tendencies to oversteer to help you?

[TonyB]

That's definitely the theory of it. What's the point of having a massively overpowered rear drive vehicle if you're not going to use it's tendencies to oversteer to help you? Yeah it all sounds simple enough....getting yourself to actually do it at well over 150km/h, immediately after being HARD on the brakes right up to the apex to stop the guy behind you from getting past, fully leant over, on a corner with a hollow that upsets bikes that are going a whoooole lot slower, with a tyre wall not too far away...now THATS a trick!

[gav]

Your monster will do over 150km/h? :rolleyes:

[Doogle]

If you want to try genuine fear try that same track on a GSXR1100.

[Sully60]

Yeah it all sounds simple enough....getting yourself to actually do it at well over 150km/h

That's the difference right there. From their point of view it's about the right speed to get to the next corner in the quickest possible time at the right position on the track.
The difference between them and us is their "speed sense" (thanks Keith) and as mentioned before they use all the tools available to them to to make sure they're going the correct speed at the correct place:

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[Tony.OK]

Where do I find the "drifting tool" cause I really want one.:headbang:
Those clips are impressive,am trying to picture my Honda doin that on left sweeper before the A1gp link at Taupo:pinch:

[TonyB]

Your monster will do over 150km/h? :rolleyes:
Umm...

If you want to try genuine fear try that same track on a GSXR1100.
I've done many laps there on an FZR1000- close enough?

[cowpoos]

Its funny tony...how every person thats answered your question is so far from being a front running or considered a fast guy...it even more humouous that they think they have the credentials to answer your question...

for fuck sake....its no wonder these's bullshit theorys and armchair expert ideals are so popular!!! because there's so many bullshit theorists and armchair experts...!!!


Tony...my advice...go to levels next weekend...approch the likes of Andrew Stoud and Craig Shirrifs etc...all very approchable and happy to talk to anyone...and ask them...you'll most likely be told the truth!!! and reasoning!!

[Sully60]

Its funny tony...how every person thats answered your question is so far from being a front running or considered a fast guy...it even more humouous that they think they have the credentials to answer your question...

for fuck sake....its no wonder these's bullshit theorys and armchair expert ideals are so popular!!! because there's so many bullshit theorists and armchair experts...!!!




I'll have you know I've a front running champion for many years in the Bullshit theory armchair expertise class Mr Poos. Who art thou?

Oh that's right, sorry Sir Poo's I bow down to thyne profound capacity in this area........:not:

[cowpoos]

I'll have you know I've a front running champion for many years in the Bullshit theory armchair expertise class Mr Poos. Who art thou?

Oh that's right, sorry Sir Poo's I bow down to thyne profound capacity in this area........:not:
So your a front runner on modern superbikes???

[Sully60]

So your a front runner on modern superbikes???

Of course not.

So sorry TonyB I really shouldn't have replied in the first place.

[cowpoos]

Of course not.

So sorry I really shouldn't have replied in the first place.
lol..I realised your were takin the piss after I posted...lol... ;)

[Robert Taylor]

Its funny tony...how every person thats answered your question is so far from being a front running or considered a fast guy...it even more humouous that they think they have the credentials to answer your question...

for fuck sake....its no wonder these's bullshit theorys and armchair expert ideals are so popular!!! because there's so many bullshit theorists and armchair experts...!!!


Tony...my advice...go to levels next weekend...approch the likes of Andrew Stoud and Craig Shirrifs etc...all very approchable and happy to talk to anyone...and ask them...you'll most likely be told the truth!!! and reasoning!!

Plus the bike has to have a LOT of painstaking geometry and suspension set up to allow the rider to have the confidence. The amount of time that goes into this behind the scenes is not for the faint hearted. They dont come off the showroom floor straight onto the track.
For example, a typical World Supersport 600 team will have 4 or so spare sets of forks and the same in shocks, all with differing internal specs and a technician on call to revalve to alternative specs. 20 spare springs etc. In NZ if someone needs to buy spare springs to have test options to pursue more speed its often akin to having their throat cut....

[Sully60]

lol..I realised your were takin the piss after I posted...lol... ;)

Oh that's alright Poos :hug:

You're obviously passionate about it, as am I.
I'd give my left one to ride like them guys, but like most racers I know that doesn't mean you have to stop trying!

[gav]

Well, rather than trying to find the answer on the internet, TonyB could've/should've paid $100 and spent today at Ruapuna with the Bernard Racing team and got some learnin' from some of the best in the business! :dodge:

[sAsLEX]

Well, rather than trying to find the answer on the internet, TonyB could've/should've paid $100 and spent today at Ruapuna with the Bernard Racing team and got some learnin' from some of the best in the business! :dodge:

What at not staying on the bikes?

[JayRacer37]

Since there are a few racers of note lurking within KB, I thought I'd ask a question directed at those at the pointy end of the field...

I went out to Ruapuna for the nationals- couldn't race, so I thought I'd watch and learn. I moved around the track, watching how the best in NZ take the corners at my local track.

I was over at the Kink/ Pothole, when I noticed something that would appear to indicate that the fast guys are committed in a huge way, that I will probably NEVER be prepared to do. It looked to me like the front runners were taking the corner at such a speed that even with max lean angle, there was no way they would EVER make the corner without getting on the gas HARD and using the power to significantly tighten the line. It looked like even the tiniest hesitation or roll off would send them out onto the grass.

So was I right? Is this what you have to do?

yep, thats dead right.

I was also using the kerb to give myself another 2m or track for the xit, lots of people said I was the fastest 600 off there which feels good.

If i wasnt spinning the bike up from just past or at the apex/kerb, i wasn't going to be on the track comethe outside of the kerb.

[JayRacer37]

Plus the bike has to have a LOT of painstaking geometry and suspension set up to allow the rider to have the confidence. The amount of time that goes into this behind the scenes is not for the faint hearted. They dont come off the showroom floor straight onto the track.
For example, a typical World Supersport 600 team will have 4 or so spare sets of forks and the same in shocks, all with differing internal specs and a technician on call to revalve to alternative specs. 20 spare springs etc. In NZ if someone needs to buy spare springs to have test options to pursue more speed its often akin to having their throat cut....

Thats for sure.

Without Roberts expertise, and Ohlins Qorld spec equipment, stuff like that would be a damn sight harder...

[JayRacer37]

What at not staying on the bikes?

lol, bikes crashing that close makes a very intimidating noise....

[Grub]

Well, rather than trying to find the answer on the internet, TonyB could've/should've paid $100 and spent today at Ruapuna with the Bernard Racing team and got some learnin' from some of the best in the business! :dodge:

Oh you mean like how to go fast in the wet (leave the bikes in the pits)

[onearmedbandit]

Well, rather than trying to find the answer on the internet, TonyB could've/should've paid $100 and spent today at Ruapuna with the Bernard Racing team and got some learnin' from some of the best in the business! :dodge:

You're fucking kidding me...???

[Sully60]

lol, bikes crashing that close makes a very intimidating noise....

Crrrrssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Hmmm should I tip in now or just wait for something yellow to slide past first?

[TonyB]

Its funny tony...how every person thats answered your question is so far from being a front running or considered a fast guy...it even more humouous that they think they have the credentials to answer your question...Its kinda hard to tell who people are on here...I tend to give them the benifit of the doubt. But yeah I did direct the question at those running at the front


yep, thats dead right.
Thats good enough for me

[k14]

You're fucking kidding me...???
Nope, every monday after all the nationals rounds the bernard racing team is holding a trackday where you can get instruction from all of the teams riders etc.

[TonyB]

Nope, every monday after all the nationals rounds the bernard racing team is holding a trackday where you can get instruction from all of the teams riders etc.
REALLY? Damn- why didn't I know about that? Oh well, wouldn't have mattered anyway- bike not rideable

[Shaun]

REALLY? Damn- why didn't I know about that? Oh well, wouldn't have mattered anyway- bike not rideable




Just listen to what POOS says mate :Playnice:

[Dom]

Just listen to what POOS says mate :Playnice:

but my poos sounds funny

[FROSTY]

I'd listen to Dougal. He might just have a few clues about running at the front of a national feild on a superbike.

[TonyB]

Just listen to what POOS says mate :Playnice:
Eh? What'd I say, what'd I say?:spudwhat:

[gav]

REALLY? Damn- why didn't I know about that? Oh well, wouldn't have mattered anyway- bike not rideable
It was advertised in the programme, oh half price for Yamaha owners!

[sAsLEX]

It was advertised in the programme, oh half price for Yamaha owners!

And the announcers repeated it a few times as well!

[TonyB]

It was advertised in the programme, oh half price for Yamaha owners!


And the announcers repeated it a few times as well!

Didn't get a program. Was only there after about 2 on Sunday. Spent most of my time in areas with no PA system... you want excuses I got 'em!

Next question. When braking into the apex, what brake are you using? Front only, back only, or bit of both? I tend to use front only for various reasons - lack of feel in back brake, fear of losing the back end, and the fact that I'm already feathering the clutch to stop the back wheel from locking up completely

[enigma51]

Next question. When braking into the apex, what brake are you using? Front only, back only, or bit of both? I tend to use front only for various reasons - lack of feel in back brake, fear of losing the back end, and the fact that I'm already feathering the clutch to stop the back wheel from locking up completely

Im not at the front or fast for that matter but I think i can answer your question (the racers will correct me)
It depends on the rider some only use the front and other use both engine and rear breaking as welll as the front


Its about what feels good and smooth i think

[FROSTY]

you want a generic answer to a variable question bro?
Depends on the track and conditions
as a rule front brake

[roogazza]

I have mates that say I have a committed style,

or is it , they reckon I should be committed ? Gaz. :wari:

[puddytat]

Nothing worse than turning up on yer bike to watch the Nats,to find out that the next day you couldve been ridin @ a trackday. Had you known that, youd have gone in your race leathers eh? Finding out on the day was dissapointing as I thought I would have heard word of it somwhere....bugger.

[TonyB]

you want a generic answer to a variable question bro?
Depends on the track and conditions
as a rule front brake

True.
Its just I have heard many people say 'use the back brake mid corner, it tightens the line and settles the bike" BUT, I'm thinking thats more at road speeds, not so much max lean on the track?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

True.
Its just I have heard many people say 'use the back brake mid corner, it tightens the line and settles the bike" BUT, I'm thinking thats more at road speeds, not so much max lean on the track?

Mid turn is where you need to be on the throttle not on the brake. That defintely sounds like road riding advice (from a slow road rider).

[Bren_chch]

True.
Its just I have heard many people say 'use the back brake mid corner, it tightens the line and settles the bike" BUT, I'm thinking thats more at road speeds, not so much max lean on the track?

it can settle the bike in some situations and also some will use the rear to turn the bike in faster. scary huh!!!

[roogazza]

Mid turn is where you need to be on the throttle not on the brake. That defintely sounds like road riding advice (from a slow road rider).

Slow rider here ! I drag the rear all the time ! I don't know, maybe I'm so old I arrive in corners before I realise and just have everything on, freaking out !!! ?
Kenny Roberts used an extra big rear disc on his bikes and Doohan even used a lot of rear, sometimes with a thumb lever !!!! Guess i must be doing something right, maybe , sorta ! G.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm no racer, but I did read that some of the top GP boys would use both the front and back heavily entering a turn. Doing this would lower the bikes centre of gravity, giving them a slight edge.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

you can use front and rear, front only or back only brake to set your turn speed, what ever your comfortable using but by mid turn you should be on the gas to settle the suspention not the back brake

[HDTboy]

Why not rear brake as well as gas?