Cig socket power problem.

[The Pastor]

Hey guys.

I have a ciggy power thing on the bike for a radar dector (speed kills guys, dont do it ever).

I plug said RD into bike and it dosent power up propperly (display goes all funny and makes a weird sound)

I plug said RD into car and it works fine.

I check the voltages on both car and bike.

They both read 12V. (although i have an "electricans" "multimeter" that only reads V in terms of 6,12,24,240,640)

Whats going on?

Cheers
Rm

[nadroj]

Polarity?.

[The Pastor]

It has the correct polarity.

[davereid]

We have assume, that the bike has a good battery, cranks and runs OK.

If so, whip the cig lighter from the car.

Plug that in. See if it gets hot.

A choc fish says it won't get hot.

Problem is likely a dodgy earth, or high resistance connection to battery.

On a voltmeter, these problems will not be apparent.

Often a 5 watt bulb is a better tester for vehicle electrics than a voltmeter.

Also, just be sure you have the voltmeter on a range one higher than you think you need.

So looking at the ranges you quoted, choose the 24v DC range.

(If you meter uses symbols, the DC range looks like a line of dots above a line. The AC range looks like "~")

Good luck with that safety device you are installing !

[The Pastor]

my "meter" cant choose a range, its just some leds that light up when its near that voltage. For electrians not electronic work! (i.e., if i touch this wire will it hurt)

Thanks for giving me some ideas. I hooked it up to my headlight for the postive, so i can turn off the power by turning off the lights, would this affect it? Im going to try and see how the earth is, might be dirty.

[The Pastor]

ciggy lighter gets hot.

[Gremlin]

having just installed a safety device of my own (I used directwires tho) my new found electrical genius-ness (ok, I still suck) says you need a loop.

That is, + for juice, and a negative/earth... for something else. If you don't have both (and a good earth can sometimes be hard to find) it won't work. Simple as that.

Well... while not a very informative post, its certainly written at an idiot level :eek:

[MaxB]

Find the earth at the back of your ciggy socket and run a new earth wire from there out to a GOOD earth. Try under a tank mounting bolt for example. Something that attaches to the frame. This is temporary for the investigation only. Does that help? = bad earth.

If not, does the socket have an inline fuse holder? I've seen them left fuseless and lashed up with tin foil. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Another thing to note after you have checked all contacts and earths is that some bikes run a headlamp relay and a headlight switch relay. The idea is to take load off the switch when you start adding heaps of lighting accessories. I have seen some BMWs with aftermarket kits to do just that. Have you plumbed into the low side of the relay? Even though there would be juice down to the headlight there would be f' all across the switch.

Just some thoughts FWIW

[The Pastor]

i think i have a good earth, its going to the frame, the socket has no fuse.

it was working about 2-3 weeks ago same setup.

[idb]

Sounds like a problem with the socket itself to me.
Dirty contacts, stuffed springs in the contacts etc

[davereid]

Seems that I already owe you a choc. fish...

If the cig lighter gets hot, it doesn't sound like poor connections to the lighter adaptor, as a Cig lighter draws way more current than your safety equipment.

idb may be on to it. The connection from lighter adaptor to plug on RD would be a good place to look next.

[The Pastor]

i am using a standard rj11 cable for my power cord (rd uses a 4 pin plug thats a bit wider maybe a 45 somthing?) but this cable works fine in the car. when i get home tonight i'll try it straigt off the battery and pull apart the ciggy power adaptor and check the connections.

[xwhatsit]

I'm no electric genius, but I would grab a proper multimeter (hell, you can get cheap crappy ones that are accurate enough for this from DSE, $10) and check exactly what the voltage is coming out of the socket. A cigarette lighter doesn't rely on a particular voltage, so 10-11V (or 13-14V) is probably fine, but electronics equipment seems to be rather more choosy about what it wants, and that might be causing the scanner to beep and do strange things.

[Ixion]

RDs in my very limited excperience seem rather fussy abouit voltage. And mine has a "low voltage" squark.

Have you tried with the motor running ?

[skidMark]

u wired it into the headlight circuit....

darwin nominee.

[The Pastor]

RDs in my very limited excperience seem rather fussy abouit voltage. And mine has a "low voltage" squark.

Have you tried with the motor running ?
i was just thinking that, ixion, wouldnt that be a laugh.

[The Pastor]

u wired it into the headlight circuit....

darwin nominee.
well skid for brains, it makes sence, as i now have a switch for my electronic devices, that i can use while riding with gloves on.

next will be to wire a door opener to my horn :)

[skidMark]

well skid for brains, it makes sence, as i now have a switch for my electronic devices, that i can use while riding with gloves on.

next will be to wire a door opener to my horn :)


so u overload the circuitry?

wire in a seperate switch man.

oh and thats intelligent so u wake the neighbours everytime ya come home? they will love that.

anyways....you have a fucked connection/ dirty connector/ water in the plug you didn't happen to wash the bike lately did you? maybe water got in and corroded the contacts or something....

[FROSTY]

Have you checked for interference.Im wondering if the circuits in the detector are like a radio and some suupression is needed.

[Disco Dan]

Got a waterproof toggle switch from DSE, hard wired it straight to the battery.

Cig lighter socket under the seat. Switch on the dash.

[skidMark]

Have you checked for interference.Im wondering if the circuits in the detector are like a radio and some suupression is needed.


Good point tony, but there wouldnt be much to interfere with it on an older bike like his cbr would there? since it's not running at the time?

maybe with newer bikes though with all thier fancy stuff?

[The Pastor]

Have you checked for interference.Im wondering if the circuits in the detector are like a radio and some suupression is needed.
it has worked off this set up before.

[Squiggles]

it has worked off this set up before.

yer but was it a fluke then? :cool:

[The Pastor]

nup worked 2 or 3 times (only plug in the dector on weekends)

[davereid]

Don't worry about overloading you bike with a radar detector !

It's "Fix your bikes electrics 101" !

There are only a few things to look at :

1. Does it have the right voltage ?
Answer - Yep, its a 12 v detector, on a 12v bike. We have already established that the battery and charging system is in good nick. (Ixions made a very good point about low voltage.)

2. Can the circuit supply the necessary current ?
Answer - Yep, plugging in the cigar lighter (which I incorrectly anticipated would not go) has tested that the circuit can supply 10 amps as required by the cigar lighter. The 1/2 amp or so your RD needs is easy !

3. Is there a dodgy connection ?
Answer - Not known. Even with a dodgy connection a cigar ligher would still get hot - it is pretty insensitive to momentary loss of voltage.

So.. the integrity of all connections is now the next place to look.

[Ixion]

Those plugs on the cigarette lighter things are often really crappy especially on the earth connection. Try a temp direct wire, just hold a piece of wire onto each of the plug terminals and connect to the battery.

[Max Preload]

If the cig lighter gets hot, it doesn't sound like poor connections to the lighter adaptor, as a Cig lighter draws way more current than your safety equipment.

A cigarette lighter can still get fairly hot even if there's a relatively poor earth and it doesn't care if the earth is interupted slightly on occasions whereas a RD will switch off.


i think i have a good earth, its going to the frame, the socket has no fuse.

You'll want to fix that.

[The Pastor]

A cigarette lighter can still get fairly hot even if there's a relatively poor earth and it doesn't care if the earth is interupted slightly on occasions whereas a RD will switch off.



You'll want to fix that.
the plug has a fuse built in.

I now have it working, the cig adapater is absolute shit, super tiny wires inside that were all broken.

Still only works while the bike is running tho.

[idb]

Yay, I win!!!!

[Max Preload]

the plug has a fuse built in.

You can pretty much regard that as non-existant - a fuse needs to be as close to the power supply as practiable to actually be of any use.

[Ixion]

Yep, those plugs are pure crap. The 'o nly when running' thing will be voltage drop. Engine off, battery maybe not a youthful virgin with pert little breasts any more, and the drain of the headlights (cos you've wired it so the RD only works when the lights are on ?) drops the voltage below what the RD wants.

[Gremlin]

Still only works while the bike is running tho.
If you wired it off your headlight circuit... umm.... it would make a lot of sense that it don't work when the bike is off.... thats the idea :rolleyes:

skiddy... I put one bike's wire on the headlight, and another on the fuel pump... they work fine.

[The Pastor]

You can pretty much regard that as non-existant - a fuse needs to be as close to the power supply as practiable to actually be of any use.

Its as close as it can get. the one i took out is about 1-2cm of wire away from the plug's fuse.

[Max Preload]

If you wired it off your headlight circuit... umm.... it would make a lot of sense that it don't work when the bike is off.... thats the idea :rolleyes:

No - not off - just not running - he means ignition on, engine not running. That points to a poor battery. You need to invest in a proper meter (they're not exactly expensive) and measure the battery voltage and load test it to see how low the voltage drops when loaded - that is the best indication as to the servicability of a lead-acid battery.


the plug has a fuse built in.


...the socket has no fuse.


Its as close as it can get. the one i took out is about 1-2cm of wire away from the plug's fuse.

Ok, consider me confused. What one you took out? I was saying the built-in plug fuse is pointless - fuses are to protect the wiring not the device - there needs to be a fuse BEFORE the wiring to the socket as close as practicible to the power supply or the wiring size change. In the event of a short in the 12V wiring to the socket, the only fuse that will come into play will be the headlight one (with the way you have it wired) and if the wiring to the socket is lighter, it could very well overheat with the short, melt the insulation and start a fire. Or if the wiring is heavy enough a short could develop and it could take out the headlight fuse. Not a particularly desirable situation on a moonless night in the twisties...

[The Pastor]

the socket that i wired into my bike had a fuse buit in, i had to take it out to wire it in (its one of those 1 into 2 adaptors).

The plug that plugs into the socket has a 2amp fuse built in.

the fuse has worked before.

does anyone know of a good quailty cig power adaptor I can get? this one falls to pices.

[Max Preload]

Ok - one last time... A fuse cannot protect any wiring from a short if it installed AFTER that wiring. The fuse in the plug will only protect the circuit if a short occurs between the plug and the RD. In the more likely event that a short occurs in the RD wiring from the headlight splice for power to the socket, there is no protection without a fuse immediately adjacent to the splice - the headlight fuse may or may not blow depending on the wiring size to the socket and if it doesn't blow, you could simply start a fire.

In short forget the fuse in the plug or in the socket - that's a half measure. There needs to be a fuse near the power splice.

Good luck.

[Max Preload]

does anyone know of a good quailty cig power adaptor I can get? this one falls to pices.

If you mean a socket, try a marine chandler like Burnsco.

Personally, I'd use a small 3.5mm flush mount socket and either make up a new RD power lead or adapt the RD power lead I had. Better still I'd simply avoid the socket altogether for the RD application and hard wire in a fused lead (assuming the RD plug is a standard style). The less connections the better.

[The Pastor]

yeah, thanks for your advice (still not sure on the fuse - tho i am an idiot)

I wanted to adapt the RD's power cable too, but its a telephone cable and i dont know how to fix it (theres 4 wires man).

I have it working atm so thats all that matters, I will be revisiting this when RD's become illgal (have to hide it hehe)

[Ixion]

I used an old modem cable to hard wire the RD on von Klunken. On mine it was the two centre connections that carried power, but yours might be different. Plug in the ciggy thing and use your tester to see which connections at the plug are live and polarity (you may need a proper multimeter for that - they'r eonly $8 FCS) . Then just hard wire the modem cable in.

[The Pastor]

what RD do you use? I have a V1.

[The Pastor]

and if only 2 use power, what do the other 2 do? and what should I do with them? just leave them hanging?

[Ixion]

Bel summut or uvver. Yes, just leave the other two clipped off. You only need two wires, +ve and -ve. Just a matter of figuring out which one is which at the RD socket. 'S easy. You know the present cable works. So just plug it in to the ciggy lighter, don't plug the RD end in. Now put one probe of y'r meter on bike earth (meter set to DC volts). Probe the 4 copper strips on the plug. One will show voltage. That's +ve (assuming your bike is -ve earth). Now switch the meter to ohms and probe the other strips. One (only) should show near zero ohms. That's -ve (earth). Take an old modem cable , locate the strips on the plug end of it that correspond to the ones you identified on your ciggy lighter cord. Note the colours of the wires attached to them (squint through the translucent plug, or peer down the end). Connect the other end of those wires to a switched fused supply, and earth. And wire it up acordingly. Sorted.

[Ixion]

Oh, ar uh, one VERY important point. Check that the output from the ciggy lighter really IS 12v ! My GPS has what looks like an ordinary ciggy lighter plug, but it actually drops the output voltage to 5v Wouldn't want to hard wire that to 12v ! Bloody pain in the neck actually.

BTW if you want a decent removeable power plug, get the type BMW ,and some Euro cars use. Different sdesign, infinitely superior.

[The Pastor]

Oh, ar uh, one VERY important point. Check that the output from the ciggy lighter really IS 12v ! My GPS has what looks like an ordinary ciggy lighter plug, but it actually drops the output voltage to 5v Wouldn't want to hard wire that to 12v ! Bloody pain in the neck actually.

BTW if you want a decent removeable power plug, get the type BMW ,and some Euro cars use. Different sdesign, infinitely superior.
where do you get the BMW ones from?

[Ixion]

BMW ! Or Tardme.

[rphenix]

my "meter" cant choose a range, its just some leds that light up when its near that voltage. For electrians not electronic work! (i.e., if i touch this wire will it hurt)


Spend $20 on a digital multimeter perhaps? Really handy to have around.

[The Pastor]

Just an update, I got a new cig power thing, better quailty than the one before but still pretty shit. But wired it up pretty decent.

Crashed the bike a few months ago so was off the road.

Plugged it back in and it went KABOOM big fireball and sparks everywhere.

doh!

[Max Preload]

No fuse at the power source then, eh...

[imdying]

No fuse at the power source then, eh...

Yep, don't break the golden rules... Been a couple of (sloppy) boy racer stereo installs that've ended up with the car on fire.