Well this is different....

[Paul in NZ]

Same terrible result but different....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4357428a10.html

[tri boy]

With regards to tourists who inadvertently cross onto the right side of the road, I think transit need to modify their reflectors on the road delineators. (the plastic posts on the sides of the roads).

In Aus, they use RED reflectors similar to tailights on your immediate left, and SILVER on your opposite side of the road.
This subconsciously helps drivers/riders to "follow the leader", and discourages crossing over due to the apparent threat from the silver "headlight" type colour.

Will not always work, but could save a few lives.

[scumdog]

With regards to tourists who inadvertently cross onto the right side of the road, I think transit need to modify their reflectors on the road delineators. (the plastic posts on the sides of the roads).

In Aus, they use RED reflectors similar to tailights on your immediate left, and SILVER on your opposite side of the road.
This subconsciously helps drivers/riders to "follow the leader", and discourages crossing over due to the apparent threat from the silver "headlight" type colour.

Will not always work, but could save a few lives.

In NZ the markers on the left have one silver reflector - those on the right hand side of the road have none - EXCEPT when approching a left-hand bend whereupon they have two yellow reflectors.

But you all knew that, didn't you??<_<

[RantyDave]

WTF?


He was given a comprehensive three-hour Powerpoint presentation on New Zealand roads and conditions, with emphasis on keeping left.

A three hour powerpoint? I find it hard to believe anyone could survive such an ordeal, let alone learn anything from it. Sheeesh.

Dave

[tri boy]

In NZ the markers on the left have one silver reflector - those on the right hand side of the road have none - EXCEPT when approching a left-hand bend whereupon they have two yellow reflectors.

But you all knew that, didn't you??<_<


Yep, knew that. But it highlights my point perfectly.
The reflectors are totally out of sync with vechile lighting.
The delineators should assist road users by guiding them through unknown areas. Instead, by using silver on their side of the road, it only adds to visual confusion, especially in poor visibility/low light.
And by having nothing but the occasional twin banded yellows on the other side, I be leave this isn't enough guidance.
Motorists will cross the centre line for many reasons, but cheap effective roading improvement would definitely reduce the carnage.

Next time you travel at night, take note of the reflectors, and see if it is as good as it could be. MHO.

[scumdog]

Where would it end? We already have the marker pegs as mentioned and 'fog-lines' along the edge of most roads plus centre-lines of various types/colours.

Next thing it will be : White direction arows flashing on the left side, red ones on the right,
20-foot stop signs so you are warned there's a stop sign in the next 100 metres,
a row of progressively larger traffic lights as you approach the intersection so you know what thelights are doing 100 metres before you get there, judder bars that pop up to remind you that you may have to stop/give-way at the next intersection yadda...yadda...yadda.

Sometimes less is good.

[Conquiztador]

There are already roads in areas that tourists visit that have big arrows painted on the road so that if you suddenly find your self on the RH side you will be driving/riding against the arrow painted on the road.

"The three tourists have admitted six deaths caused by careless driving in the last six weeks. Five of the six killed have been motorcyclists."
Perhaps a way to cut the deaths would be to stop tourists driving/riding in NZ? It would have saved one person a week. That would be 52/year...

[Blue Velvet]

A three hour powerpoint?

Death by PowerPoint.

[90s]

"Mr Gordon's partner and his father were not vengeful and wanted McBrien returned to the United States rather than being imprisoned."

Does anyone else think that this is part of the problem? That these things "just happen" and "no one is to blame"? I am tired of reading about riders /drivers who clearly through their own actions kill themselves and others* and family and friends seem to accept this as inevitable and feel sympathy for the responsible person.

You would not feel the same if someone invaded your house and beat a loved one to death with a bat; or if at work the criminally negligant employer led to your partner being needlessly killed.

I've never understood why people are so accepting in these cases - and the "respect" thing is meaningless as an excuse not to debate this.

*not enough info in this case to be sure that this rider was 100% to blame, but in general

[WRT]

In Aus, they use RED reflectors similar to tailights on your immediate left, and SILVER on your opposite side of the road.
This subconsciously helps drivers/riders to "follow the leader", and discourages crossing over due to the apparent threat from the silver "headlight" type colour.

Seems to me to be a much better system than ours, however most of the head ons involving tourists seem to happen during the day. Perhaps the oncoming headlights at night are enough to make the drivers sit up and take notice, but it's more likely just a result of the tourists doing the majority of their open road driving during daylight hours.

[more_fasterer]

Is it conceivable that these tourists, in parts of the country of exceptional natural beauty, aren't concentrating on the road and are instead looking at the scenery?

In which case, you can put as many arrows on the road as you like (and there are a fair few!) and they still won't notice.

[scumdog]

"The three tourists have admitted six deaths caused by careless driving in the last six weeks. Five of the six killed have been motorcyclists."
Perhaps a way to cut the deaths would be to stop tourists driving/riding in NZ? It would have saved one person a week. That would be 52/year...


And the incident that killed the most motorcyclists could have just as easily been caused by an average slack-jawed inattentive Kiwi driver...the nationality of the driver had bugger-all to do with her actions.

[Blue Velvet]

That these things "just happen" and "no one is to blame"?

I posted similar on the campervan thread, something about these sorts of things being "just an accident", but that this shouldn't be such an accepted explanation...

I accept that "accidents" happen, but they happen because something caused them.

[James Deuce]

"Mr Gordon's partner and his father were not vengeful and wanted McBrien returned to the United States rather than being imprisoned."

Does anyone else think that this is part of the problem? That these things "just happen" and "no one is to blame"? I am tired of reading about riders /drivers who clearly through their own actions kill themselves and others* and family and friends seem to accept this as inevitable and feel sympathy for the responsible person.

You would not feel the same if someone invaded your house and beat a loved one to death with a bat; or if at work the criminally negligant employer led to your partner being needlessly killed.

I've never understood why people are so accepting in these cases - and the "respect" thing is meaningless as an excuse not to debate this.

*not enough info in this case to be sure that this rider was 100% to blame, but in general

I would hope that I could be so gracious and forgiving in the same circumstances.

This family's reaction is a good thing IMO and should be lauded. Vengeance achieves nothing. Vengeance dressed as justice is an evil unto itself.

Maybe "we" really are growing up, if people can be this forgiving.

[Paul in NZ]

I'd say it's just about impossible to drive with 100% concentration 100% of the time - we all goof up, the only question is hows my luck holding and have i allowed a safety factor...

[90s]

I would hope that I could be so gracious and forgiving in the same circumstances.

This family's reaction is a good thing IMO and should be lauded. Vengeance achieves nothing. Vengeance dressed as justice is an evil unto itself.

Maybe "we" really are growing up, if people can be this forgiving.

Where is the point between this and the inability to take personal liability for your actions?
I forgive fault when error is reasonable. This is laudable. I do not forgive where it is clear all along to the person what outcome their actions may cause.
It is not "grown-ups" who can't take responsibility, and give constructive criticism - even blame when fair.
With no accountabiliyt backed up (in extreme vengeance) then there is no incentive for considering anyone else but yourself. By abitary or institutional means people should pay for their mistakes. As someone with family members who have been cripled and killed by drunk drivers I have no sympathy for how they or their families feel about the 'trauma' they suffered, or physical injury. If I were to do the same I would expect no sympathy from others. I would hope KB would condemn me.
But discussing things along these lines might mean this dissappears with the last thread where how you pay for your actions was discussed.

[Kendog]

Death by PowerPoint.

Let's hope they don't let them drive immediately afterwards. In that sleepy state who knows what would happen.

[James Deuce]

Where is the point between this and the inability to take personal liability for your actions?

I forgive fault when error is reasonable. This is laudable. I do not forgive where it is clear all along to the person what outcome their actions may cause.

It is not "grown-ups" who can't take responsibility, and give constructive criticism - even blame when fair.

With no accountabiliyt backed up (in extreme vengeance) then there is no incentive for considering anyone else but yourself. By abitary or institutional means people should pay for their mistakes. As someone with family members who have been cripled and killed by drunk drivers I have no sympathy for how they or their families feel about the 'trauma' they suffered, or physical injury. If I were to do the same I would expect no sympathy from others. I would hope KB would condemn me.

But discussing things along these lines might mean this dissappears with the last thread where how you pay for your actions was discussed.

He's taken personal responsibility. He has has made a Guilty plea, despite not being able to remember what the person standing next to him said 20 seconds ago. He has said he is willing to accept his punishment. What more do you want?

No punishment a court imposes will fix his injuries or bring back the dead dude. Sounds like a very clever very hard working chap, doing what one of us might reasonably do when in another country. It just went wrong for him.

Ever had your life's course altered by a single event?

[90s]

Ever had your life's course altered by a single event?

I think I posted the answer to that in my last post.

So do you take responsibility for your actions before you do them - and avoid running into trouble that you could avoid - or do you knowingly do the wrong thing and getting caught out "own up" and now eveything is OK?

- man comes into your house and beats you. He knows its wrong. He is fully culpable. He is caught. He admits his guilt. He pays the price.

But that's OK - you forgive?

[90s]

It would help you to get over it.

Until the next person did the same thing.

I'm not sure my dead family members would actually want me to get over it either to be honnest.

There was a reason in "the old days" that people were shunned even after they admitted guilt and 'did the time'. Did it stop more people doing things they knew would carry long-term consequences?
(or create a hard-core underclass?)

My I am getting into some heavy weight gloom and deabte this morning. I'll have lunch in a minute and then I'll be better. Outa here.

[SPman]

I know of at least 2 Kiwi bike riders, killed in the USA in exactly the same circumstances - automatically going onto the wrong side of the road and having head ons. It works both ways!
With a car, at least you have a reminder - keep the steering wheel by the white line, on a bike, it's sooooo easy to relapse to your naturally ingrained response.
I just think it's tragic, all round.

[James Deuce]

But that's OK - you forgive?

Yes. It is imperative that you do or it will ruin your life and those around you.

[James Deuce]

Until the next person did the same thing.

I'm not sure my dead family members would actually want me to get over it either to be honnest.

There was a reason in "the old days" that people were shunned even after they admitted guilt and 'did the time'. Did it stop more people doing things they knew would carry long-term consequences?
(or create a hard-core underclass?)

My I am getting into some heavy weight gloom and deabte this morning. I'll have lunch in a minute and then I'll be better. Outa here.

That's because people were small minded, had small worlds, small expectations, and little experience outside what life "should" be. Shit happens. How you deal with it speaks volumes about you. Forever dwelling on the bad stuff will mess you up worse than the fictitious bloke who broke into your house and beat you up.

Revenge fantasies are for sickos.

[jafar]

She convicted McBrien and ordered him to make an immediate payment of $10,000 for emotion harm to Mr Gordon's family.

Last month, an Austrian tourist admitted flipping a campervan and hitting four motorcyclists in South Canterbury

The three tourists have admitted six deaths caused by careless driving in the last six weeks. Five of the six killed have been motorcyclists.

He should appeal , the Austrian tourist only had to pay $8,000 per victim.

[Conquiztador]

Yes. It is imperative that you do (forgive) or it will ruin your life and those around you.

Forgiveness is badly overrated

[sAsLEX]

There are already roads in areas that tourists visit that have big arrows painted on the road so that if you suddenly find your self on the RH side you will be driving/riding against the arrow painted on the road.



The UK has them often on all the roads I drove over there, maybe we need more?

[Conquiztador]

And the incident that killed the most motorcyclists could have just as easily been caused by an average slack-jawed inattentive Kiwi driver...the nationality of the driver had bugger-all to do with her actions.

It could have. But it was not. And if she had not been allowed to drive, they would all be alive today...