I am really disapointed with BRONZ

[WelshWizard]

:Oi::mega::brick:

Their policy statement on road furniture

BRONZ
POSITION PAPER: ROAD MARKINGS, CARRIAGE WAYS AND ROAD FURNITURE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction:
New Zealand's roading system is primarily designed for cars and heavy vehicles, and as such does not always provide for safety of motorcycles. The motorcyclist, therefore, is keenly aware of the construction of our roads.


BRONZ Inc Policy:
BRONZ Inc supports the view that it is vital that all road users are considered by roading engineers and planners. Funding to Transit New Zealand must reflect the commitment of government to a safe national roading structure. In particular:

Planning must look to the future, where, based on current trends, there will be increased volumes of traffic in all categories, private, commercial and public;
There are many different types of road user, in the planning and maintenance of our roading system it is vital that all users are considered;
Better funding levels would provide resources for consultation, research and innovation;
More accountability is required to ensure local authorities and Transit New Zealand maintain safe roads and a constructive consultation process with local road user groups;
Summary:
BRONZ Inc supports consultation with all road users when planning and maintaining our roading network. Better funding levels to those responsible for our roads will provide resources for this consultation, research and innovation.
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I am really disappointed with BRONZ :angry2:


Not one link to http://www.cheesecutter.co.nz
Not one word on their site about cheesecutters or the dangers of them.I was going to join, but what's the point in supporting this organization if they are not even taking Cheesecutter WRB seriously enough to even have a comment or posting about them.:brick:

Time they pulled finger and started to get active on their site about them,
when you compare the UK MAG organization page
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http://campaign.publicaffairsbriefing.co.uk/home.aspx?cid=8de9ecd3-d68c-4358-846f-182cd8db567d
MAG first page on Campaigns

Motorcycle Friendly Crash Barriers

Issued 5th July 2007.

The aim of the campaign was to persuade the UK Government to make an immediate public commitment that:

There will be no more wire rope type barrier systems fitted in the UK.

That these high maintenance and expensive systems will be systematically identified and replaced expediently.

A review of the placement of crash barriers needs to be undertaken with those identified as dangerous for motorcycles to be fitted with a motorcycle–friendly guard rail.

Decisions by road authorities to install Vehicle Restraint Systems should take into consideration the safety of motorcyclists so that they are not a greater danger than the obstacle they are intended to protect.

Our campaigns aims regarding Europe are bearing fruition:

In Europe that the standard for crash barriers - EN 1317 should include testing with motorcycles, so that crash barriers can be proven safe for all road users.

Motorcycle-friendly secondary rails and all other forms of post protection devices are included in the standards of tests for other vehicles.

Thus allowing road authorities in the UK the freedom to fit these systems and devices without expensive and time consuming secondary UK testing.

Visit the campaign page >>
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http://www.network.mag-uk.org/barriers/index.html

This Page contains Links to Crash Barrier Information

Back to the Campaign Website Here

Motorcycle-Friendly Guardrails: One Step Further - FEMA is granted the liaison status with CEN/TC 226 Here

BikeGuard Protection Goes West Here

Peak Protection for Motorcyclists Here

Getting There Here

MAG Briefing Document August 2006 Word Document - pdf

MAG Vehicle Restraint Systems, Safety Fences, Crash Barriers, Motorcyclists pdf

FEMA “Road to Success” Here

FEMA Final report of the Motorcyclists & Crash Barriers Project: Website Here

Butterflies And Motorcycle Barriers Here

NMCU Norway Success on Wire Rope Barriers Here

MAG Netherlands Success on Wire Rope Barriers Here

Pictures of Motorcycle Friendly Crash Barriers and Wire Rope Barriers Here

Bikeguard Motorcycle Friendly Crash Barrier in the UK pdf

HISA (Spanish motorcycle protection system) Here

FEMA European Agenda for Motorcycle Safety (Road Infrastructure Chapter) Here

ACEM handbook for Road Planners and Engineers pdf

The Influence of Wire Rope Barriers on Motorcycles pdf

Motorcycle Impacts To Roadside Barriers pdf

Wire Rope “Un - safety” Barrier - Report from MRAAs (Australia ) Road Safety & Research Officer pdf

Robust Report Road Barrier Upgrade of Standards pdf

Computer simulations thanks to NMCU:

No protection: Widows Media Player Here
With protection: Widows Media Player Here

FNM Portugal video: Widows Media Player Here 5mb

Links to websites with video clips in the public domain. These show the interaction of other vehicles with wire road systems.

Brifen USA
Brifen UK
Safence Sweden

MAG has copies of the CD which outlines the test procedures by the Dutch guardrail company Prins Dokkum B.V. on their motorcycle friendly crash barrier system.

If you wish to receive a copy please contact Trevor Baird Director of Public Affairs at MAG UK public-affairs@mag-uk.org

Back to the Campaign Website Here
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Are BRONZ so backward that they can't get their act together, they say they are for motorcyclist rights, but no public commitment to the WRB cheesecutter campaign, a real :slap: as they seem to be happy to let KB and the few who are running www.cheesecutter.co.nz do all the work?

PS I have toned down my language over my thoughts about their abilities and my real thoughts about them, when they start supporting Motorcyclist and the fight against the WRB on their site then I might be tempted to pay up and join.

[Ixion]

Not quite so.

Whiule the protest rides have been very apparent, BRONZ has indeed been working away behind the scenes.

Nagging and arguing, it's what we do well. Sometimes the best way to wear away stone is by a slow drip of water.

We have met with Roly Whatsit, the national Operations Manager, and the National Safety Manager. Who have listened politley, nodded, and admitted that they had not realised the seriousness with which motorcyclists viewed the problem. And have undertaken to review all the new installations proposed, and indicated (without commitment) taht some at least may be altered to be other barrier types. A small start, but a start. And we will meet them again at the beginning of March . And they have undertaken to consult us before any new work is done.

Getting the existing ones changed will be harder . But a dripping tap will wear away stone. And they did not know about the retrofit possibilities and have agreed to research those, and report back to us in March

And locally the regional BRONZ groups have met with the regional Transit managers. And nagged them.

And of course BRONZ has been (unofficially) involved in the protests so far.

And we have spred the word in the newspapers and the radio stations

It would be startegically unwise for BRONZ to adopt the same approach as the KB campaign. As it is we get two bites at the cherry. The up front visible face of affronted motorcycling (the KB campaign) and the nagging arguing behind the scenes campaign. A sort of good cop bad cop deal. For BRONZ to mimic the KB campaign would achieve little (we are already there) and would lose us the second string to our bow.

Some of the activity has been reported here
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1269073&postcount=58
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1259061

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1259661&postcount=211

[MSTRS]

We have met with Roly Whatsit, the national Operations Manager, and the National Safety Manager. Who have listened politley, nodded, and admitted that they had not realised the seriousness with which motorcyclists viewed the problem. And have undertaken to review all the new installations proposed, and indicated (without commitment) taht some at least may be altered to be other barrier types. A small start, but a start. And we will meet them again at the beginning of March . And they have undertaken to consult us before any new work is done.

Getting the existing ones changed will be harder . But a dripping tap will wear away stone. And they did not know about the retrofit possibilities and have agreed to research those, and report back to us in March



I call them out on those comments. Utter bullshit and designed to make you think they are listening.

[WRT]

Hehe, Ixion just called himself a drip . . .

[Waxxa]

Truth is Kbers, is that we are dealing with a beaurocratic department and any decision could take years to decide and then more years to change every cheesecutter barrier around the country!

This campaign will be a long an arduous one. Perhaps BRONZ could get more involved but us KBers need to get more involved too and we need to keep persisting and have an ongoing public profile. One or two protest rides is very little for a serious issue to motorcyclists.

We all need to be patient, co-ordinated and more involved all round. Change will come!

[sunhuntin]

I call them out on those comments. Utter bullshit and designed to make you think they are listening.

the same lines that guy fed us at taupo, if i recall. i was soooo tempted to ask him about the barrier going up at lake whataroa down south, but didnt want to stuff up the work you guys had done.

im still planning a cheese cutter "census" for this years southern trip, and id like to also do a north island one, but dont think id have time.

[Ixion]

They lied to us. Of course. One can tell, their mouths open.

What do folk expect, they are bureaucrats, they will lie and evade.

But the statements from the BRONZ meeting were written down. And then we wrote them a letter , confirming the "points discussed".

Which we will then follow up in March

When they will lie, and evade. Of course.

And we will keept iterating the process. They will never admit they are wrong, or agree to change anything.

But -- the next time someone in Transit says "A WRB would be a good idea here , don't you think", there's a small, but not trivial likelihood that the boss says "um, no, maybe not, I've got to see those pain the arse people soon and I don't want them bitching at me anymore than is necessary. Lets make it concrete".

But be in no doubt about it . it will take years. And years. And years.

MAG have been fighting this cause for decades.

[Coldrider]

Transit does everything on a cost-benefit ratio, safety is but just a part of it.

[Ixion]

True. But another part is the bureacratic instinct to avoid anything that rocks the boat. If switching barrier types costs more money, but keeps them out of the press, and stops questions in the house and from MPs and Ministers, they won't give a stuff about cost. It's not their money, after all.

The dudes we are talking with are pretty senior, above the point where they ahve to follow the cost benefit rules.

[Big Dave]

I put a link on the links page.

The issue is also addressed on the BRONZ page in this month's Kiwi Rider.
When I get that copy it will go on the site.

we wait till after the Kiwi Rider has been out for a little while before putting it online - out of respect to the publisher - who donates the page and it's layout to the cause.



In the meantime there are 4 Kiwi Bikers that attend AKL BRONZ meetings.

Mr Ixion carries most of the load in this matter on his own and very admirably.

If you want more done - more people need to actively participate.

[WelshWizard]

Not quite so.

(a)BRONZ has indeed been working away behind the scenes.
.

(b)We have met with Roly Whatsit, the national Operations Manager, and the National Safety Manager. ------------------------------ . And they have undertaken to consult us before any new work is done.

(c)And locally the regional BRONZ groups have met with the regional Transit managers. And nagged them.

(d)And of course BRONZ has been (unofficially) involved in the protests so far.

(e)And we have spred the word in the newspapers and the radio stations

(f)It would be startegically unwise for BRONZ to adopt the same approach as the KB campaign. As it is we get two bites at the cherry. The up front visible face of affronted motorcycling (the KB campaign) and the nagging arguing behind the scenes campaign. A sort of good cop bad cop deal. For BRONZ to mimic the KB campaign would achieve little (we are already there) and would lose us the second string to our bow.

(g)Some of the activity has been reported here
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1269073&postcount=58
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1259061

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1259661&postcount=211


(a) It needs to be more public, if BRONZ is not more forceful and show more commitment, then officialdom will just patronize you with a few words that make BRONZ think they are getting some where

(b) so why are WRB still being erected, or are BRONZ not being open about the so called consultation.?

(c) We need more than nagging, wives nag.

(d)Is it not time to make an official effort?

(e)What newspapers,and what radio stations" any links to them?

(f)We do not expect you to duplicate, but at least get out there, KB is a great place to advertise but on the whole you are preaching to the converted, more needs to be done to get in the faces of those who are not converted, so far I have not seen one word about WRBs in the New Zealand Motorcycle Press, But I have seen overseas Motorcycle press use Daniel Death to further their cause against the WRB overseas.

(g)
With all respect to KB, (g) gets the same answer as (e)

unless we get this action really rolling the officials will laugh behind your back as a bad joke and will stop even bother to make patronizing noise to BRONZ

[yungatart]

As I see it, we can't sit back on our laurels and expect or wait for BRONZ to do all the work on our behalf.

As a private citizen there is heaps that can be done...

1 Organise a face to face meet with your local MP
2 Get petition forms signed
3 Write an article for your local midweek rag
4 Write to your MP
5 Man a stand in town, with photos, petiton forms etc
6 Talk to everyone you meet about CC, have petition forms on you
7 Drop petiton forms in at local businesses (don't forget to collect them)

Just a few to get people started.

[WelshWizard]

Have already being doing that, even Checked Mt Eden Motorcycles, as they did not have any petition form, so left them some, have had them in the local Garage, at work, Local Dairy, and even the local church, but we need more BRONZ collects membership fund to fight for our rights as riders, Cheesecutter.co.nz does not nor does KB, strange the ones who don't collect any membership funds seem to be the one getting out there with the problem

[WelshWizard]

Just got the issue of Kiwi Rider that BRONZ has put out their statement on WRB, sadly I am very disappointed, the effort was very poor, and it left me thinking is a member of BRONZ who wrote it employed by Transit NZ, came across as having the same commitment as Transit NZ in getting rid of WRB on our roads.

BRONZ more commitment please

[fliplid]

Seen the Kiwi Rider mag regards the BRONZ article. Did seem a bit lame, but there again, it was actually in print.