Little bikes are different?

[FROSTY]

I've been riding Jorja's little 125 a bit lately.Down the road to do rego's and the chores around the yard.
I've notices that although the basic bike principles apply the little bikes are a heck of a lot more sensitive to road "issues".
Tarsnakes are a nightmare. White lines in the wet are scarey and road irregularities are harder to deal with.
seems to me in a lot of ways a small (250 or below) bike is harder to ride than a bigger bike.Or perhaps motre sensitive maybee

[bungbung]

Substandard suspension and handling. I rode Lisa's GL145 over the Haywards and back to Tawa last night, it required so much more attention than my vtr1000. You need to do a lot of advance planning to overtake cars for example.

[HRT]

Let my flatmate have a bit of a play on my CBR250 in a carpark a couple of times, and then again when I got the 600 and he said the 600 was way easier to ride, even if it was just in a carpark.

I found the 250 a bit strange when riding along on bits of road just sealed where the seal only goes to the middle of the lane. Feels like what I imagine riding on ice would be like. No issues on the 600, possibly just put it down to bigger feet

[Kittyhawk]

Took Lilsel's zzr 250 out for a wee blat, and noticed that bikes with thinner tires are definetly more sensitive on the road.

Maybe because everything is quite a bit smaller in scale, compared to larger bikes which feel more stable on the roads.

More rubber on road means more stability?

[ital916]

You guys should try riding down shortland street in the auckland cbd on an rg150.....it's like a rodeo. I have to take it at thirty otherwise the front really starts playing up.

[R6_kid]

Just took the Scorpio 225 out for a blat with my mate on his GSXR600k6. I find the little bikes turn in really easy, but at the same time the steering is greatly affected by road surface changes and general bumpiness.

I would believe that is partially due to the wheels themselves having less rotational inertia and therefore being easier to disturb from their rotational plane, and the fact that the bike itself is about 40kg lighter than what i'm use to. Also less brakes, far less power, and non-sport suspension makes it just as much of a handful at legal speeds as a 600 supersport is at high speed.

[Ixion]

It's not small bikes, it's light bikes. RZ is affected that way. BUT-- it feels dodgy if you're used to a heavy bike, but it isn't . Just physics. A big heavy bike won't be so easily deflected. A small one will. But so what.

It's just like riding on gravel. Yeah, the bike will move around a lot, but let it. It's small, light, the movement doesnt mean much.

And small bikes, meant for city work, will usually have a steeper rake, less trail, to allow easy traffic manoevering (which is good). If you want stability, get a crusier. Or a BMW. *NOTHING* deflects von Klunken.

A small light bike is still easier to *ride* than a big heavy one. You just have to recognise that it's down to *you* to *ride* it.

[xwhatsit]

I'm used to my bike, which is twitchy and light even for a 250, especially with the forks dropped through the triple clamp a bit. I've ridden a couple of larger bikes not so long ago, one of which was a GSXR600. Apart from the exciting engine, it was actually quite bland and boring. Like a video game, no sensation of speed or movement (especially with the fairing). But the suspension just made it feel so indirect and bland and uninvolved with the road.

On my bike, with its primitive suspension and light weight, you get so much feedback through the clip-ons it's almost overwhelming sometimes. Bike has been described as feeling like a mountain bike with a motor.

That's part of the appeal of small, light bikes for me.

[Patch]

think I'll stick to my 196kg whale - you lot keep up the good work

[Ixion]

Took Lilsel's zzr 250 out for a wee blat, and noticed that bikes with thinner tires are definetly more sensitive on the road.

Maybe because everything is quite a bit smaller in scale, compared to larger bikes which feel more stable on the roads.

More rubber on road means more stability?

Yes. It does. But that's not necessarily a good thing. The price for stability is a lack of chuckability. Crusiers are stable. Which is why I'm not keen on them

I *like* a bike that is 'nervy', that feels the road and needs to be ridden. If I wanted stability, I'd put an motor in an armchair. And call it a BMW.

Yes, stability is nice on a crusier or tourier. If you have a thousand kilometres to ride, you don't want to have to work at it more than you have to, and you're not going to be looking for twisty stuff. But you loose a LOT of the fun.

[Patch]

If I wanted stability, I'd put an motor in an armchair. And call it a BMW

funniest thing I've read all day :killingme:killingme:killingme true too

[jrandom]

If you have a thousand kilometres to ride... you're not going to be looking for twisty stuff.

Dunno about that...

[99TLS]

Dunno about that...

agreed here i would be seeking them out :banana:

[Ixion]

Then y' wouldn't take a tourier.

For twisties the ideal is what the Yanks call a canyon-carver.

Small bikes.

Aprilia RS250, RGV250 are probably the ones that spring to mind. Wouldn't choose either for a 1000miler m'self.

[jrandom]

Aprilia RS250, RGV250 are probably the ones that spring to mind. Wouldn't choose either for a 1000miler m'self.

There are motorcycles available which are neither origami-rider sprotbikes, full-dress tourers nor ridiculous back-breaking cruisers, you know.

You really must take Betty the GSX1400 for a ride sometime.

Properly handled, she despatches the twisties with motard-like agility, but will happily settle into sedate, armchair-like comfort for long stretches of well-policed highway when required.

Not to mention the great advantages appertaining to a bike which looks like it should come with pipe and slipper holders. Even when engaged in the most dastardly throttle-twisting transgressions upon a GSX1400, one still projects an air of upright, middle-aged respectability as one surveys the countryside from its plush pilot and pillion accommodation.

[Motu]

Small bikes are like puppies and kittens,fun and exciting,you gotta smile at their exuberance.My DT230 can play with the big boys because it has the power to weight ratio of a much larger bike,and yet it's only a little fella....not growed up yet.It runs the same size tyres as bigger bikes I've had but is much more nervous in corners - you can't just set a line and forget about it,there is constant adjustment through the corner.I have to be careful under power in corners as any bump or drop off will have it in the air and out of contact with the ground....step outs are kinda scary on this one.So ok,you can get that on a big bike too - but it's not the same as getting tossed around on a small bike.

I've got both - big and small....several of each.And small is waaaay more fun.

[Grub]

It's a tricky one. For sheer fun and enjoyment I think our old FXR150 put more smiles on my face han the 600 does. I remember riding home the looong way along SH58 to the last Whitby entrance instead of the first and then going back and doing it again .... ummm ... 5 times!

Quick turn in, chuckability, get-out-of-trouble-quick, light ... hmmm.

Really sucked going up SH1 Pukerua Bay and P'ram into the standard brisk NW winds though.

[FROSTY]

It's got me to wondering if us more "experienced" riders (insert old if you must) have come to have a little complacency even possibly arrogance about some newbee crashes.
Riding Kylies bike along Don Buck road ( fairly twisty 50km/h residentiial road) I was a tadd nervous at how it was sliding aound so easily after a bit of a shower.

[HRT]

It's a tricky one. For sheer fun and enjoyment I think our old FXR150 put more smiles on my face han the 600 does. I remember riding home the looong way along SH58 to the last Whitby entrance instead of the first and then going back and doing it again .... ummm ... 5 times!

Quick turn in, chuckability, get-out-of-trouble-quick, light ... hmmm.

Really sucked going up SH1 Pukerua Bay and P'ram into the standard brisk NW winds though.



You don't find the 600 as nice to turn in etc? Maybe its because my last bike was so much older, but I fond the brakes, bigger tyre and power to pull so much better out of a corner make the 600 a lot more fun than the 250. 250 was alright, but felt somewhat lacking after a few months

[Disco Dan]

It's got me to wondering if us more "experienced" riders (insert old if you must) have come to have a little complacency even possibly arrogance about some newbee crashes.
Riding Kylies bike along Don Buck road ( fairly twisty 50km/h residentiial road) I was a tadd nervous at how it was sliding aound so easily after a bit of a shower.

I dont have 'years' to bring experience from only three or four so far, but I have to agree!

However larger bikes become 'twitchy' and 'fun' at high speed whereas small bikes say less than 600cc (some have 250cc size tires) are all about the lower speed 'fun' (under 100k for example).

They all still do exactly what they are built for...

[lanci]

For me the 250 bikes I have ridden are generally quite old and budget, meaning shitter suspension for price saving as well as that, the suspension is a little tired........

So my 2005 Ducati Monster which weighs the same as my Hornet, feels more stable due to quality (maybe) suspension that is less worn out.

That's my initial thought's anyway, not taking into account greater wheelbase of the Duc etc..............

[Ixion]

Obviously one must compare like and like. Comparing an MV Agusta with a GN is hardly meaningful. Perhaps a Derbi or RS125.

Most of my big bikes have shitter suspension as well, so its a closer comparison.

[90s]

If I had the money, I would have kept my old RG150 because it was such fun for the reasons Ixions outlines. Light = terrible in the crosswinds, narrow rubber scittering about - so the GSX on the commute and touring is much better.

But along scenic drive the RG was amazing fun. Poor surfaces, tight corners, constant chicanes ... at lowish speeds the thing was fun!
The torquey GSX at legal speeds runs around Scenic drive as if on rails - much calmer and faster, no drama ... but not much as much fun.
Those small bikes, of which I have owned many, are so safely entertaining at realistic speeds. I reckon the only real way to up it from that is to get a sport bike and take it to the track - for the roads there's no getting more fun than you can have on a small bike legally and/or safetly.
But there's only so much fun you can have before you need a bike for other things that they are not very good at ...
And only so many times some people can take being asked if their bike is powered by a hairdryer ...

[Roki_nz]

I *like* a bike that is 'nervy', that feels the road and needs to be ridden. If I wanted stability, I'd put an motor in an armchair. And call it a BMW.



Someone in Germany did something very similar. They put a motor in a wheel chair.
The police caught it, gave the man a fine and impounded the motor chair.

[vonstringer]

I've just started riding again on a Yamaha Scorpio 225 after a six-year break. Prior to this I had a Triumph Thunderbird Sport.

The little Yamaha definitely feels the road more and the front wheel tends to bounce along over uneven road surfaces, but it's not unnerving - just different. It's very manoeuvrable and the low weight makes it easy to throw around if necessary.

One thing it does lack is the ability to disappear from an area when car drivers are doing silly things. It was easy on the Triumph to put some distance between silly people and myself.

The Yamaha is bags of fun, cheap (not so much to worry about), and can do most things a big bike can.

[xwhatsit]

I was reminded of this again going over the Harbour Bridge yesterday. Side-by-side with a GS1200SS (those things are so cool :D), he had one hand on the throttle, other hand on his thigh, just gently cruising over the peak looking at the scenery. Meanwhile I'm bouncing around with the shitty road surface, getting blown side-to-side by the wind and truck wash, constantly adjusting throttle for the effects of the wind and changing road angle.

I think I was having much more fun -- he looked like he was just rolling down his driveway :) I think I'd slowly go spare commuting on a big bike like that; my little nervous gutless single keeps me occupied and grinning even doing the most mundane commuter riding.

[Ixion]

I was foribly reminded today of one very important point. A small/light bike WILL skitter about. That's fine *unless* it is fitted with crap (eg Chen Shing) tyres. In which case the skitter can tunr very easily into a crash. and of course, often small bike = cheap bike = crappy OEM tyres. They really are dangerous.


This post brought to you by a joint venture of Chen Shing tyre (loosely called) and the water covered taroil puddle loosely called SH22.

The world will not be safe for little bikes until the last Chen Shing dealer is strangled with the guts of the last roading engineer.

[ital916]

I was foribly reminded today of one very important point. A small/light bike WILL skitter about. That's fine *unless* it is fitted with crap (eg Chen Shing) tyres. In which case the skitter can tunr very easily into a crash. and of course, often small bike = cheap bike = crappy OEM tyres. They really are dangerous.


This post brought to you by a joint venture of Chen Shing tyre (loosely called) and the water covered taroil puddle loosely called SH22.

The world will not be safe for little bikes until the last Chen Shing dealer is strangled with the guts of the last roading engineer.

Hear hear, ixion minister of transportation! *and maybe jim for police minister, all crooks would go into a furnace :lol:, jokes*

[FilthyLuka]

I think I was having much more fun -- he looked like he was just rolling down his driveway :) I think I'd slowly go spare commuting on a big bike like that; my little nervous gutless single keeps me occupied and grinning even doing the most mundane commuter riding.

I know! Commuting wise, having a mildly tuned thumper is always gonna be fun :-) After going from the slabbie back onto the GN, i gotta say, the GN is still loads of fun :cool:

[CookMySock]

my wifes' GT250R is surprisingly similar to my GT650R.. but that is probably because the bikes are surprisingly similar.

[jcupit69]

Then y' wouldn't take a tourier.

For twisties the ideal is what the Yanks call a canyon-carver.

Small bikes.

Aprilia RS250, RGV250 are probably the ones that spring to mind. Wouldn't choose either for a 1000miler m'self.

Totally agree.

Got an rs250 and they feel realy sure footed, even in the wet (good tyres help majorly though). The suspension is top marks, and the brembos are awsome too, no cheap bits here!!!! Only problem is the lack of engine brake, but you can get round that (big brembos + no weight = huge stopping power). Its so light and chuckable with grip for days, n putting it into a corner is a delight that would make any sports bike rider smile. The power is awsome if you keep it in the powerband, and you can keep up with most bigger bikes in the twistys, but it you fall out of the powerband you go no where. I think part of the fun is they make you work for the big fat reward they give!!!

There a different creature to most other bikes and a lil different to ride to 4strokes, you really have to work them (gear changes etc) but if you do my god are they good in the twistys. Amazing amazing bikes in the twistys, never heard the phrase "canyon-carver" before, and they're not wrong. If you want a exciting fun bike that'll make you smile you gotta get an rs or rgv.

Spent six hours going back and forth over the tukas the other week, probs did bout 300k-400k ish including getting there n back and found while i was on it i was comfy as and probs the happiest guy around....when i got home and got off for a while though it was a different story, my hipps, my back my sholders, ouch, id been vibrated to death. However after being away for a week without my bike i find myself dying to get back on the tukas till im so sore i cant walk.