Grafitti "artists" pay the ultimate price in Sydney

[merv]

Well they won't do that again http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/above-the-call-of-duty/2008/01/21/1200764128865.html

So is there some divine justice?

[sAsLEX]

D a r w i n.

[JimO]

fukkim........

[Big Dave]

Interestingly SMH.com carried the word 'artists' till lunchtime - when the headline was changed to 'graffitists'.

I really like the art that appears on the building sites and under the railway etc - but I have shit tags all over my front fence again today.
Not even nice style - morons.

[merv]

I really like the art that appears on the building sites and under the railway etc - but I have shit tags all over my front fence again today.
Not even nice style - morons.

So how you going to drown those culprits and make it look like an accident?

[Big Dave]

So how you going to drown those culprits and make it look like an accident?

Fire hose.

[Robbo]

Yep! Justice does catch up with some of these morons eventually.

[MSTRS]

Oh dear, that's sad....one survived.:innocent:

[Big Dave]

Too harsh - I use some of the guerilla art for backdrops and stuff. It has its place. Just not my )^&@_(*#$in' fence.

[MSTRS]

It's not art...Grafitti is vandalism and defacement of someone else's property. It has no place in society.
Calling it art only gives the (little) shits ideas of worth, that don't exist. Besides, with the positioning of this particular bit of grafitti, do you really think they were creating a mural? And at their ages, the sprayers should know better.

[sAsLEX]

Too harsh - I use some of the guerilla art for backdrops and stuff. It has its place. Just not my )^&@_(*#$in' fence.

This aint too bad

<img src=http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/695284.jpg>

[The Tazman]

If only this sort of thing happened to all these f**kwits and all the other scum in the world it would be such poetic justice and a great way of natural selection!!

[Big Dave]

This aint too bad

http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/695284.jpg

Thanks you - and yes mstrs some of them are murals.

There are a number of excavations and building sites around auckland that are interesting places rather than dirty holes in the ground because of the art.

Appropriate even.

And then there is my front fence which deserves your intolerance.

[MGST]

There is one word to describe these people - criminals. Tell me I'm wrong. The Councillor said it was a tragedy. The only tragedy was that one of the little pricks survived. Fuckin shame that. I hope the ozzie gummit gives the survivor the bill for the chopper rescue / recovery etc.

[Big Dave]

There is one word to describe these people - criminals. Tell me I'm wrong. The Councillor said it was a tragedy. The only tragedy was that one of the little pricks survived. Fuckin shame that. I hope the ozzie gummit gives the survivor the bill for the chopper rescue / recovery etc.


It's seven years since I lived there.

If you belonged to 'The Ambulance Service' there was a nominal fee for a ride.

If you didn't belong/subscribe - big, big bill - just for a meatwagon.

[Mekk]

There is one word to describe these people - criminals. Tell me I'm wrong. The Councillor said it was a tragedy. The only tragedy was that one of the little pricks survived. Fuckin shame that. I hope the ozzie gummit gives the survivor the bill for the chopper rescue / recovery etc.

I feel I must question your tolerance levels. Why are you so riled about someone spray painting something you're never going to see or be affected by? In fact ninety nine percent of the population will never see it. The only reason you know about it is because of that article.

I know it's difficult for you to see outside your comfort zone but urban caving is actually quite fun.

Please clarify just why you think they deserve to die for that.

[Mekk]

It's not art...Grafitti is vandalism and defacement of someone else's property. It has no place in society.
Calling it art only gives the (little) shits ideas of worth, that don't exist. Besides, with the positioning of this particular bit of grafitti, do you really think they were creating a mural? And at their ages, the sprayers should know better.

A lot of urban cavers spray paint to mark that they were there. It's not about art in a storm drain, it's like a trophy for reaching a normally unaccessible place.

Do people really care that much about a storm drain though? It's not destroying its function and as I mentioned above, ninety nine percent of people wouldn't know a thing or care a thing about it.

I think there's just a bit of confusion between these guys and the normal "territorial" taggers.

[JimO]

A lot of urban cavers spray paint to mark that they were there. It's not about art in a storm drain, it's like a trophy for reaching a normally unaccessible place.

Do people really care that much about a storm drain though? It's not destroying its function and as I mentioned above, ninety nine percent of people wouldn't know a thing or care a thing about it.

I think there's just a bit of confusion between these guys and the normal "territorial" taggers.

how do you know these people wernt joe average taggers, from what i saw on the news the taggs were pretty average............on saturday i saw on the side of a newly painted building....NO GRAFFITY......i wouldnt be too sad if that feller got squashed by a paino falling out of a window

[Robbo]

I feel I must question your tolerance levels. Why are you so riled about someone spray painting something you're never going to see or be affected by? In fact ninety nine percent of the population will never see it. The only reason you know about it is because of that article.

I know it's difficult for you to see outside your comfort zone but urban caving is actually quite fun.

Please clarify just why you think they deserve to die for that.

It is straight out vandalism, no if's or but's. You appear to share the same view as most Judges do, sympathy for the Criminal and Contempt for the Victims,
If these morons have any talents then there are many legitimate places where they can practice their so called tallents, and these Do Not include my property (again) or Daves front fence.
If you have'nt been affected directly, then you will have been affected in-directly through your Rates and the massive clean up costs that are incurred to local Councils every day thanks to the mindless actions of these arseholes.

[skidMark]

Fire hose.

gunna piss on them then?

[Big Dave]

Nah - too artsy.

[sunhuntin]

when they built the skate park here, they got some artists in to spray murals on the walls and bowls. looked freakin wicked. now, it is covered in street kid tags and other bullshit.
i dont mind some nicely done murals like i see in places, but street tags just look trashy and have no place.
my boss, last week, elected to no longer carry rattle cans, which is a good move.

id say, while a bit of a shame, those kids got their just desserts. im betting their friends wont be tagging anymore.

[Mekk]

how do you know these people wernt joe average taggers, from what i saw on the news the taggs were pretty average............on saturday i saw on the side of a newly painted building....NO GRAFFITY......i wouldnt be too sad if that feller got squashed by a paino falling out of a window

Because I know what urban caving is about and how it differs to vandalism tagging. Most of them simply use chalk in drier areas, the use of spray paint is more likely for the practicality of it rather than to piss people off.

I agree, I think town graffiti is mostly ugly and degrades the buildings they go for but this is not the same.


It is straight out vandalism, no if's or but's. You appear to share the same view as most Judges do, sympathy for the Criminal and Contempt for the Victims,
If these morons have any talents then there are many legitimate places where they can practice their so called tallents, and these Do Not include my property (again) or Daves front fence.
If you have'nt been affected directly, then you will have been affected in-directly through your Rates and the massive clean up costs that are incurred to local Councils every day thanks to the mindless actions of these arseholes.

I don't think you're on the same wavelength with me here. I can't blame you really, the article has misrepresented the people involved quite considerably.

I'm not talking about taggers, I'm talking about urban cavers/explorers. There is a very clear and obvious difference.

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places. The article put unfair emphasis on the tagging as opposed to what they were really there for. They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.

I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.

[Bikernereid]

There is a difference between tagging and art. I love this pic and the artists is annonymous but his work now commands a small fortune. He has messages that he wants to convey and does it through art and I see nothing wrong in that. It makes some shitty walls look far better!

QUOTE=merv;1390220]Well they won't do that again http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/above-the-call-of-duty/2008/01/21/1200764128865.html

So is there some divine justice?[/QUOTE]

[Robbo]

Because I know what urban caving is about and how it differs to vandalism tagging. Most of them simply use chalk in drier areas, the use of spray paint is more likely for the practicality of it rather than to piss people off.

I agree, I think town graffiti is mostly ugly and degrades the buildings they go for but this is not the same.



I don't think you're on the same wavelength with me here. I can't blame you really, the article has misrepresented the people involved quite considerably.

I'm not talking about taggers, I'm talking about urban cavers/explorers. There is a very clear and obvious difference.

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places. The article put unfair emphasis on the tagging as opposed to what they were really there for. They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.

I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.

Yes Mekk, i do see your point of view and my comments are definately directed towards the "Taggers" as they are the ones that have caused myself and many others with the problem of graffiti and the clean up costs.
"Urban Cavers" is not a term that i am all that familiar with, or their habbits, but i still don't agree with or condone defacing Public Property as the cost of clean up eventually comes back to us all.
Also, operating in hard to access places as you mentioned, obviously has it's risks as appears to have happened in this instance. Was it worth risking their lives for? I think not.

[MSTRS]

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places.....They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.
Anyone else see the irony in these comments?


I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.
Oh, and at 22-27, they were not kids....

[Mint Sauce]

Now if we could just tempt a few of the 'boy racers' down into the storm drains to do the burn outs life would be sweet!

Vandals die :whocares:?

[Bikernereid]

Bit harsh don't you think?!


Now if we could just tempt a few of the 'boy racers' down into the storm drains to do the burn outs life would be sweet!

Vandals die :whocares:?

[MSTRS]

Bit harsh don't you think?!

Hell, NO!!!

[sunhuntin]

Hell, NO!!!

+1 ......................

[Mint Sauce]

Bit harsh don't you think?!

No! From your short visit are you aware of the 'burn out' meetings, and the associated behaviour, damage and danger these buggers present in new Zealand?

The biggest threat to the planet is over population so why get het up about the idiots who self detruct?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Because I know what urban caving is about and how it differs to vandalism tagging. Most of them simply use chalk in drier areas, the use of spray paint is more likely for the practicality of it rather than to piss people off.

I agree, I think town graffiti is mostly ugly and degrades the buildings they go for but this is not the same.



I don't think you're on the same wavelength with me here. I can't blame you really, the article has misrepresented the people involved quite considerably.

I'm not talking about taggers, I'm talking about urban cavers/explorers. There is a very clear and obvious difference.

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places. The article put unfair emphasis on the tagging as opposed to what they were really there for. They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.

I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.

Uh, these munters were hardly "urban explorers" as far as I saw. The surviving munter was so pissed he couldnt tell the pleece if there were others there and if so how many.

Getting pissed up in an urban storm drain is not my idea of "Exploration", hardly in the Hillary spirit is it?

[Maffoo]

theres a big difference between 'bombing' which is a mural done with spray cans as is seen round auckland in some places (like the sir ed picture) & 'tagging'... which is just writing a made-up name on a wall/fence/building

tagging is no different to a dog pissing on a lamppost to tell the other dogs he has been there

[Mint Sauce]

Perfect; if the anlagoy of taggers is to stray dogs then let us have crews to catch them, a pound to put them in and the ability to put them down if not claimed within 30 days.:doctor:

[sunhuntin]

Perfect; if the anlagoy of taggers is to stray dogs then let us have crews to catch them, a pound to put them in and the ability to put them down if not claimed within 30 days.:doctor:

dreams are wonderful. can we do the same with boy racers?

[Hitcher]

They weren't "graffiti artists". They were fucking taggers. Big difference.

[jrandom]

They were fucking taggers.

Heaven forbid; one suspects that such behaviour could result in the pitter-patter of little tagger feet.

[Big Dave]

What are the Court penalties for tagging?

[Al]

Hey Dave, your "is gay" (in pink) on the previous tagging on your white wall was very good!
I agree, same as stray dogs pissing and marking.... Impound them and if not claimed, euthanase them!

Take care out there

Al

[Big Dave]

Hey Dave, your "is gay" (in pink) on the previous tagging on your white wall was very good!
I agree, same as stray dogs pissing and marking.... Impound them and if not claimed, euthanase them!

Take care out there

Al

I have a dispenser of rattle can black for painting my muffler too.

But all it would do is make the bloke from the council's job cleaning it off harder.



Hi David,



Graffiti is on the increase in Auckland City, particularly in residential areas. Left alone, it may fast become an epidemic in your neighbourhood. You don't need to put up with it, so thank you for bringing this to our attention.

I have requested that our graffiti contractors attend to remove graffiti from big dave's cave. The removal should take place within 48 working hours, weather permitting. Should you wish to follow this up at any stage, the reference numbers for this request is #####

I hope this helps. Feel free to contact us via our website (www.aucklandcity.govt.nz) or speak with one of us via phone on (09) 379 2020 for any assistance with matters pertaining to Auckland City Council

Kind regards,

Contact Centre Customer Service Representative
Auckland City Council

[MGST]

I feel I must question your tolerance levels. Why are you so riled about someone spray painting something you're never going to see or be affected by? In fact ninety nine percent of the population will never see it. The only reason you know about it is because of that article.

While I won't see that particular one, I am in the same boat as Dave. The fuckwits are always tagging my front fence, and the power transformer on the adjacent section. As soon as the graffiti (sp) guard people paint over it, they come back and tag it again. So it is nice to see some karma.


I know it's difficult for you to see outside your comfort zone but urban caving is actually quite fun.

3 mid-20's youths, smashed off their faces, no mention of caving equipment / ropes etc - this was no legitmate afternoon outing. I quite believe you that genuine urban caving is fun and adventurous, but this wasn't the case here.


Please clarify just why you think they deserve to die for that.

They were in a prohibited area, tagging, drunk, plus who knows what else we weren't told. As I said before, criminals, and on several accounts. The world is a better place without them.

[Mekk]

Also, operating in hard to access places as you mentioned, obviously has it's risks as appears to have happened in this instance. Was it worth risking their lives for? I think not.

I think to them it would have been worth risking their lives for in the same manner that bikers choose to risk their lives on the road.



Anyone else see the irony in these comments?

Oh, and at 22-27, they were not kids....

If you're referring to the very public reporting of their deaths, then yeah.

Regardless, I don't feel urban cavers deserve the death penalty for pursuing a hobby that affects next to no one.

I also don't think that they deserve to be lumped into the same category as taggers when the entire motive for what they do has nothing to do with that.

It's interesting to note the hypocrisy of some people here. A fair portion of this site is concerned about motorcyclists all being labeled as trouble-makers and whatnot while nobody here holds back on doing the same for other hobbies.

Whether they were kids or not isn't really relevant to my point but I stand corrected.

[Mekk]

Uh, these munters were hardly "urban explorers" as far as I saw. The surviving munter was so pissed he couldnt tell the pleece if there were others there and if so how many.

Getting pissed up in an urban storm drain is not my idea of "Exploration", hardly in the Hillary spirit is it?

Aside from the alcohol factor of which I agree was not their brightest moment, I would contest that it is very much in the Hillary spirit for all other aspects of such adventures.


While I won't see that particular one, I am in the same boat as Dave. The fuckwits are always tagging my front fence, and the power transformer on the adjacent section. As soon as the graffiti (sp) guard people paint over it, they come back and tag it again. So it is nice to see some karma.

My argument is that this is not karma because it is not the same group of people that ruin Dave's fence.



3 mid-20's youths, smashed off their faces, no mention of caving equipment / ropes etc - this was no legitmate afternoon outing. I quite believe you that genuine urban caving is fun and adventurous, but this wasn't the case here.

I think there's a bit of confusion here. Two points.

Firstly, "urban caving" is a term given by the media for such things. Other terms are "buildering", "urban exploration" and "structuring". Terms given by the media need not have much in common with real terms, just how they seem. Therefore it is not a requirement for "urban cavers" to have all the gear of real cavers to be labeled as such.

Secondly, actual caving doesn't necessarily entail proper equipment either. All it requires is the exploration of caves.


They were in a prohibited area, tagging, drunk, plus who knows what else we weren't told. As I said before, criminals, and on several accounts. The world is a better place without them.

The law's the law and yes they were breaking it on multiple accounts. I contest whether abiding by the law makes the world a better place though. I'm sure anyone who has gone over the speed limit intentionally would agree it doesn't always.

Part of the thrill with "urban exploration" is the risk of getting caught. They broke the law so yes, they should be punished but I do not believe they deserved to die for it. Especially when the "crime" affects people less than running a red.

[Mekk]

Immediately after posting I had a look at the picture of those two people fucking on the bridge and wondered if you lot would have sympathy if the people that died were screwing in the drain.

Why aren't people wishing they had fallen off the bridge and died? It's the same kind of illegal, we don't know if they've been drinking or not and it sure as hell would affect your windscreen if they fell on you.

Not only is this condoned on the other thread, it's being cheered on! Why the double standards?

[MSTRS]

Most taggers do it to mark territory, to make statements and other things of that nature.

Urban explorers are about finding new and harder to access places.....They tag to show that they have been somewhere, like a trophy kind of thing.

The key difference is that taggers do what they do to be seen by any and everyone. Cavers do it only for other explorers to see or for them to see on return journeys there. They don't do it to vandalise, show off or wreck things unlike a lot of taggers.

Anyone else see the irony in these comments?


I agree with you that most tagging in the city looks ugly, devalues and degrades property and is generally a menace but I think you should appreciate the differences between that and what these kids were up to.

Oh, and at 22-27, they were not kids....


If you're referring to the very public reporting of their deaths, then yeah.

Regardless, I don't feel urban cavers deserve the death penalty for pursuing a hobby that affects next to no one.

I also don't think that they deserve to be lumped into the same category as taggers when the entire motive for what they do has nothing to do with that.



I refer to the irony of you describing the actions of taggers vs 'urban cavers'...you seem to think there is a difference in tagging to mark territory or be seen by others, compared with leaving a mark to show they've been there or to be seen by others.
And FWIW, I think 'death penalty' is a tad harsh - but anyone stupid enough to enter a stormwater drain in bad weather...well, Darwin at work. No sympathy here.

[Big Dave]

I went Urban Caving when I was seven.
Up the stormwater drains under St George Leagues club.
That was the last time I felt the urge.

And where I met my avatar.

[Mekk]

I refer to the irony of you describing the actions of taggers vs 'urban cavers'...you seem to think there is a difference in tagging to mark territory or be seen by others, compared with leaving a mark to show they've been there or to be seen by others.
And FWIW, I think 'death penalty' is a tad harsh - but anyone stupid enough to enter a stormwater drain in bad weather...well, Darwin at work. No sympathy here.

I was perhaps not as clear as I had hoped.

I was trying to bring light to the difference of taggers doing what they do purely to be seen by as many people as possible. Also to stake territory as opposed to these guys doing it for themselves and the few others that trickle down there. Taggers are about tagging, explorers are about exploring.

I did ask myself why they decided to go in there in bad weather but I suppose the alcohol explains that. Obviously not the wisest of choices but shit, that doesn't make them the scum of the Earth either.

[MSTRS]

A slight sideways shift in topic, but still on the subject...
There is a cave near Masterton that has been explored many times over the years and some people have seen fit to leave their mark on the walls, mostly in pencil of all things. The thing is, in some parts of this cave seepage of lime-filled water has left layers of clear over top of some of these marks, preserving them forever, and so they are there to be seen until such time as the cave is no longer viable.
The second thing is that these marks are the (full)names of the markers and the date they were there. The size of these marks is about the same as if you were writing a note to yourself (not big eh?) Vandalism? Perhaps. But they were not making a statement whilst hiding their identity, were they?
Nobody in their right mind would leave that info these days...I wonder why?

[MGST]

anyone stupid enough to enter a stormwater drain in bad weather...well, Darwin at work. No sympathy here.


Exactly. Bling for you Mr

[sunhuntin]

A slight sideways shift in topic, but still on the subject...
There is a cave near Masterton that has been explored many times over the years and some people have seen fit to leave their mark on the walls, mostly in pencil of all things. The thing is, in some parts of this cave seepage of lime-filled water has left layers of clear over top of some of these marks, preserving them forever, and so they are there to be seen until such time as the cave is no longer viable.
The second thing is that these marks are the (full)names of the markers and the date they were there. The size of these marks is about the same as if you were writing a note to yourself (not big eh?) Vandalism? Perhaps. But they were not making a statement whilst hiding their identity, were they?
Nobody in their right mind would leave that info these days...I wonder why?

just a thought, but marks like that, where nature is preserving them, could be fascinating for furture people. like cave drawings from prehistoric times, and hieroglyphics fascinate us today... im sure in their day they werent viewed as much.

[Mint Sauce]

just a thought, but marks like that, where nature is preserving them, could be fascinating for furture people. like cave drawings from prehistoric times, and hieroglyphics fascinate us today... im sure in their day they werent viewed as much.

Do you really think our stormwater drain infrastructure will last that long?


well, Darwin at work. No sympathy here.

Well seeing as you mentioned it, some people may be interested in this site
http://www.darwinawards.com/

[sunhuntin]

mstrs was talking about a cave, which is what i was referring to.

[Mekk]

Do you really think our stormwater drain infrastructure will last that long?

It doesn't really have to last that long to be significant. Any number of events could happen in the next 10 or 20 years that could make it fascinating for future generations...but it's more for future explorers anyway.

[Bikernereid]

nasty nasty people


+1 ......................

[Dave-]

banksy (http://www.banksy.co.uk/outdoors/horizontal_1.htm)

[sunhuntin]

nasty nasty people

as said, artistry like that is fine... its the shitty tags that drive people crazy.

[Big Dave]

banksy (http://www.banksy.co.uk/outdoors/horizontal_1.htm)

Thanks for that.

In some ways Banksy conforms to the Robert Hughes paradigm where the art is the bridge between 2 previously unconnected ideas.

Of most of it I am in awe - some of it makes me uncomfortable - not for the content - but that the bridge is too obviously constructed of 'shock value'.

We were a bit over that with Warhol, but then some of it is just perfect.


For those noting the word paradigm and hoping to score points in a round of word-wanker-bingo, this is one of many favourites:

[Dave-]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wall-Piece-Banksy/dp/1844137864

want.

wonder if boarders have it...

[Mint Sauce]

nasty nasty people

Rather judgemental of others views and opinions don't you think?

I seem to remember some serious 'dummy spitting' and 'toys out the pram' behaviour from someone who felt emails were being judgemental about them not so long ago.:Oi:

[Dave-]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wall-Piece-Banksy/dp/1844137864

want.

wonder if boarders have it...

turns out boarders do have it.

ordered and on its way, $35

[Dave-]

NECRO!

ahh picked up said book today....holy shit it's everything i wanted plus 10% more shit.

awesome coffee table book.