Two more bikers taken out by wrong-side tourist

[Ixion]

A Spanish tourist who drove on the wrong side of the road hitting and injuring two motorcyclists yesterday admitted two charges of careless use causing injury, when he appeared in Greymouth District Court today.

From

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4368551a12855.html



Defence lawyer Bev Connors said De Lenzo had been driving since he was 18 and had never had an accident before.
"He was driving on a rural road and had no easy guide as to what side of the road he should have been on."



He doesn't know which hand is left?






Judge Moran said he was sorry the defendant's holiday in New Zealand had been ruined by this "unfortunate accident".
"It was not a criminal act, but it was a careless one. You have also caused a lot of emotional harm to the people you hit," the judge said.



No mention of sorry for the injured bikers. Who suffered broken bones not just "emotional harm". Who is this wanker Moran, anyway. NZ is dreadfully ill served by its judiciary

[Kittyhawk]

He was driving on a rural road and had no easy guide as to what side of the road he should have been on."
FFS! There is no easy guide on rural roads, if he couldnt bloody work out what side to be on, he shouldnt have been allowed to drive!

Its bad enough NZ'ers having accidents on marked roads in the same lane!!!

Is there a system in place with LTSA which makes international drivers sit a practial test before they drive?, or do they just come on over display an international licence and drive on our roads???

Something needs to be done...

[Bikernereid]

I can understand the whole which side of the road I should be on can be a problem if you are tired. I have made a similar error when driving in the UK after just getting back from France. I had spent years living abroad and was tired, driving at night and for a split second forgot where I was. I stopped to rest before I hurt someone.

As for which hand is which no excuse for that!!

Lawyer sounds like a prat but should know better. What is it with bikers, I bet if it has been a car driver they would have gotten an apology!


A Spanish tourist who drove on the wrong side of the road hitting and injuring two motorcyclists yesterday admitted two charges of careless use causing injury, when he appeared in Greymouth District Court today.

From

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4368551a12855.html




He doesn't know which hand is left?






No mention of sorry for the injured bikers. Who suffered broken bones not just "emotional harm". Who is this wanker Moran, anyway. NZ is dreadfully ill served by its judiciary

[Bikernereid]

Agree completely that tourists should have a proficiency/ aclimatisation test before being allowed on the road. Would be interested to see how many accidents are cause by those of us who drive on the left whilst abroad in countries that drive on the right.


He was driving on a rural road and had no easy guide as to what side of the road he should have been on."
FFS! There is no easy guide on rural roads, if he couldnt bloody work out what side to be on, he shouldnt have been allowed to drive!

Its bad enough NZ'ers having accidents on marked roads in the same lane!!!

Is there a system in place with LTSA which makes international drivers sit a practial test before they drive?, or do they just come on over display an international licence and drive on our roads???

Something needs to be done...

[Big Dog]

My heart goes out to the riders and their families.

[Ixion]

Uh, just to make it quite clear here, they weren't killed, 'merely' badly injured

[Kittyhawk]

Agree completely that tourists should have a proficiency/ aclimatisation test before being allowed on the road. Would be interested to see how many accidents are cause by those of us who drive on the left whilst abroad in countries that drive on the right.

I agree...if you are always driving on the left, go over to the States naturally it fees wrong to be driving on the "wrong" side of the road...I know I'd have an accident if I wasnt paying attention over there.....I'll gladly put my hand up and say "watch out kitty gone wild on the road"

[Big Dog]

Uh, just to make it quite clear here, they weren't killed, 'merely' badly injured

Does not mean that this is painless to them.

I was quite clear in my mind if not my post that they were hurt not dead but I can only imagine that it is not the best day of their lives or their families.

[Bikernereid]

Sometimes it is very easy to judge if you yourself have not had the experience of driving in a foreign country with different road rules. I am sure that the Spanish tourist is not feeling particularly brilliant at the moment; it is not the most pleasant of experiences being in an RTA. And I guess it must be an aweful feeling knowing that you have injured others in the process.

Maybe your government are the ones who need lambasting and kicking up the arse to do something about this problem!!!



I agree...if you are always driving on the left, go over to the States naturally it fees wrong to be driving on the "wrong" side of the road...I know I'd have an accident if I wasnt paying attention over there.....I'll gladly put my hand up and say "watch out kitty gone wild on the road"

[Kittyhawk]

Sometimes it is very easy to judge if you yourself have not had the experience of driving in a foreign country with different road rules. I am sure that the Spanish tourist is not feeling particularly brilliant at the moment; it is not the most pleasant of experiences being in an RTA. And I guess it must be an aweful feeling knowing that you have injured others in the process.

Maybe your government are the ones who need lambasting and kicking up the arse to do something about this problem!!!

DONT get me started on the goverment, as far as Im concerned they are living out of their asses, and are blinded by shit.:mad:

Something does need to be done...but at the rate things happen in NZ we will be waiting a long long time.

[Ixion]

Does not mean that this is painless to them.

I was quite clear in my mind if not my post that they were hurt not dead but I can only imagine that it is not the best day of their lives or their families.

Quite so. Just didn't want anyone to go off with the wrong idea.

[Big Dog]

In fact one of the worst if not the worst day in my life was definitly when I collected a car on the other side of the road when I lost control of mine in the wet on a very dangerous corner (there is a reason 1.4 milliion was spent on taking this pair of bends out). I was limping but not badly hurt (dash rash). Neither were the two old ladies (just shocked) but there is something terrible about knowing you were that close to killing two holiday makers on their way home to their families.
I also have sympathy for the driver. As humans we make mistakes but the tourist is unlikely to be reading this.

[skidMark]

just a thought here....

how accurate is a gps unit?

i know the special ones can be used for very precise calculations...

anyways....

what it there was a warning system of some sort in the car.....that when you are on the wrong side or the road...it sound loudly ....wrong side of road...preferably in whatever language they speak.

and that if you come into new zealand for a holiday you are given one...and return it upon leaving.

i don't know some kind of proper warning system to be honest a sticker will not get thier attention.

you would ignore it after a while.

in reality if every car manufactured came out with this

(alot of modern cars have gpx anyways right? well the expensive once but i'm sure it won't be long...)

i dunno some kind of warning system....you lot figure it out...i will sleep on it...which is what i better do now...suns coming up.

SM

edit......just had a brain wave...

obviously if they come from a country in which they drive on the other side of the road. the drivers seat is on the other side. maybe this can work in our favour somehow.

i mean they are driving in a car where they are in the other side to what they are usually....

somebody else think lol my head hurts lol

[awayatc]

Agree completely that tourists should have a proficiency/ aclimatisation test before being allowed on the road. Would be interested to see how many accidents are cause by those of us who drive on the left whilst abroad in countries that drive on the right.


Never would happen to me...always drive in the middle...;)

Why not go universal?- we all go drive on the right side, starting with the trucks, cars a week later.....:banana:

Wikipedia:
Nowadays driving on the left is predominantly a custom in Britain and former British colonies, and in Japan. The historical record shows a more varied picture in the past. Prior to World War I, countries observing the left-hand rule included parts of Canada, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, parts of Austria, Sweden, Iceland, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, parts of Brazil, parts of Chile, parts of Italy, China, the Philippines, and Burma. Italy changed when Benito Mussolini came to power, Austria and Czechoslovakia when Adolf Hitler annexed or occupied them, the Latin American countries by 1945, the Philippines and China in 1946 (leaving Hong Kong and Macau isolated), and Burma/Myanmar in 1970 on the advice of a soothsayer

[Number One]

Haven't read the other posts...sorry if this is a repeat BUT...

When o when are they going to make people prove their competence behind the wheel and awareness of our road rules before letting them loose? :no:

I think there should be a compulsory test both practical and oral or written. That way there is 'some' level of comfort that they are at least aware of the rules and are actually competent enough to be driving HERE in the first place!

[Usarka]

Haven't read the other posts...sorry if this is a repeat BUT...

When o when are they going to make people prove their competence behind the wheel and awareness of our road rules before letting them loose? :no:

I think there should be a compulsory test both practical and oral or written. That way there is 'some' level of comfort that they are at least aware of the rules and are actually competent enough to be driving HERE in the first place!

Completely unworkable. Imagine going to Aus, UK, etc and not being able to rent a car until you'd sat a driving test.

Hopefully the tester would need to be certified (which likely means it'll take ages to book). And if done properly it'd mean you might not pass, and therefore have to cancel the car reservation and lose your deposit, and wreck your holiday.

Tourists would just go somewhere else. The government won't let that happen.

[Bikernereid]

So would you be prepared to do the same when visiting another country which drives on the right, if so then fair enough?


Haven't read the other posts...sorry if this is a repeat BUT...

When o when are they going to make people prove their competence behind the wheel and awareness of our road rules before letting them loose? :no:

I think there should be a compulsory test both practical and oral or written. That way there is 'some' level of comfort that they are at least aware of the rules and are actually competent enough to be driving HERE in the first place!

[Number One]

Completely unworkable. Imagine going to Aus, UK, etc and not being able to rent a car until you'd sat a driving test.

Hopefully the tester would need to be certified (which likely means it'll take ages to book). And if done properly it'd mean you might not pass, and therefore have to cancel the car reservation and lose your deposit, and wreck your holiday.

Tourists would just go somewhere else. The government won't let that happen.

C yer point :yes: Crikey though enuff is enuff! There MUST be something that can be done to help ensure people are aware of basic road rules and things...maybe a quick walk through a handout (with pictures) I don't know...surely something proactive could be done to reduce the incidences of tourists maiming and killing on our roads through their lack of awareness/competence.

[idb]

DONT get me started on the goverment......

Awww go on....

[Number One]

So would you be prepared to do the same when visiting another country which drives on the right, if so then fair enough?

Actually I would - HELL YES!

I am a nana though and to be honest if I was in a country that drove on the opposite side of the road I'm not sure I'd even be game to try it.

Leave the driving up to hubbie me finks...he way more onto it and co-ordinated than I and I would absolutely hate myself if I were to take someone out because my 'natural and now hard wired' road rule tendancies took over.

[FROSTY]

Competency teast really doesn't mean squat. When you are bright eyed and bushy tailed in the city its pretty easy to stay on the correct side of the road.
But give them a few hours driving on roads they dont know. and theyre lost and tired. Thats when they go back to what they are used to

[Number One]

Competency teast really doesn't mean squat. When you are bright eyed and bushy tailed in the city its pretty easy to stay on the correct side of the road.
But give them a few hours driving on roads they dont know. and theyre lost and tired. Thats when they go back to what they are used to

True dat! Hence I wouldn't trust myself on opposite side of road. Anyway would rather be driven....

Onward Geevs and don't spare the horses :niceone:

[oldrider]

These people, the bikers, are friends of mine.

Two broken legs and two broken arms and still in an induced coma for one and a broken elbow for the other, "spoiled the tourist's holiday" and the judge is sorry!

Not a word for the bikers!

Judges are the arse end of this country and the cause of most of our current social problems in my opinion.

Where do they get these slack pricks from. :doh:

At least my friends are not dead! John.

[Robbo]

Sometimes it is very easy to judge if you yourself have not had the experience of driving in a foreign country with different road rules. I am sure that the Spanish tourist is not feeling particularly brilliant at the moment; it is not the most pleasant of experiences being in an RTA. And I guess it must be an aweful feeling knowing that you have injured others in the process.

Maybe your government are the ones who need lambasting and kicking up the arse to do something about this problem!!!

Well Fuck how the Spanish Tourist is feeling right now, you should be more concerned at how the Two Motorcyclists are feeling right now. By the way, He was driving the vehicle, Not the Government, so how the hell do you figure that it's their fault.
Being a Tourist in any foreign country is NO excuse whatsoever, it is everyones responsability when travelling to understand, observe and obey the rules of the country they intend to drive in. Quite simple really. If they can't figure that one out, then don't bother comming here.
We already have enough "Dick Heads" on our roads to contend with without needing to add Imports to the mix as well.:angry2:

[dhunt]

What if all rental Cars/CamperVans had big signs inside which said something like Edge of road This SIDE. It might save a few lives.

In my experience driving/riding overseas I didn't have any issues swapping from driving on the left to the right and back again. But I guess I've done it a couple times now.

My Cousin though had one oops when he turn right onto a street and instinctively went into the left lane. No major drama but not hard to do.

[Okey Dokey]

I'm absolutely gobsmacked by the judge's comments. It's hard to understand how the obviously serious injuries to the riders who were the innocent parties in this case could be so blatantly ignored. Especially given the remarks about ruined holidays!

I've found the easiest rule of thumb to use when driving elsewhere is the driver should be next to the centre line (assuming you don't have a left hand drive vehicle in a left lane country etc). I can recall nearly getting run over crossing the road once, as I looked the wrong way as a pedestrian. Luckily the oncoming car was far enough away that I had time to step back!

Dear fellow bikers, I hope your injuries mend as quickly and painlessly as possible.

[Number One]

I've found the easiest rule of thumb to use when driving elsewhere is the driver should be next to the centre line (assuming you don't have a left hand drive vehicle in a left lane country etc).

I think even I could remember that...though still wouldn't trust myself once I relax or get tired.

[Grub]

Is there a system in place with LTSA which makes international drivers sit a practial test before they drive?, or do they just come on over display an international licence and drive on our roads???...

I don't believe that there is. Just the same as there's no test for us when we go to Hawaii, US or Europe.

On all the Campervans and a lot of the rental cars they have big dashboard arrows reminding you what side to drive on. Driving up the West Coast is a real trap though because you can go for almost the whole 6 hrs and not see another person. It would be easy to fall back into old habits, but that's still no excuse

[Number One]

Wahoo - my first Red rep! :Punk:

Thanks whoever you are :shifty: now I know what they look like

my first post on this "utter twaddle"? Yeah ok...There's lots of that on KB isn't there...do you run out of red rep the same way you run out of green rep? Hope not for your sake as you'll run out pretty quick if you felt the need to red rep all of the "Utter Twaddle" on here.

[Ixion]

In general, someone from a wrong-side country wandering onto the wrong side of the road is not going to be too major a crisis. After all, on a single lane country road, the "correct side" of the road is relatively meaningless, most traffic is pretty much central.

The real problem arises with an emergency.

Experienced drivers, and riders, are usually safer, in part at least because they have trained themselves to react instinctively in a (relatively) safe way in an emergency. Part of that conditioning, for us, is the instinct to steer toward the left if confronted with oncoming traffic. We don't have to think about it, it's instinctive.

But, someone from a country where they drive on the wrong side of the road, their instincts will be to steer right.

If two left hand drivers/riders are approaching, and one wanders onto the wrong side of the road, each will instinctively respond to the "Oh Shit" moment by steering left. Out of each others path. "Pheww, that was close".

But of one of them is a wrong-wayer , he will steer RIGHT. Right back into the path of the left steering other party.

And no signs, arrows or whatever will overcome this.

[swbarnett]

As for which hand is which no excuse for that!!
Actually, there is one - Dyslexia. Ask a dyslexic to show you their left hand and they'll have to think about it and won't always get it right. When my wife tells me which way to turn I get her to point and she's quite often pointing opposite to what she's just said.

As it relates to side of the road there are workarounds for those that have trouble with left and right; just remember that you drive on the opposite side to the side you sit on i.e. right hand drive means drive on the left. Perhaps this would help; tell this to tourists as well as left or right. This should work for all rental cars as long as their not imported sportscars.

[swbarnett]

Being a Tourist in any foreign country is NO excuse whatsoever, it is everyones responsability when travelling to understand, observe and obey the rules of the country they intend to drive in.
Exactly. When I first arrived in Switzerland to live I didn't drive but I did have my bicycle with me. After the first ride and getting confused by the traffic lights (the road markings are different) I went down to the local equivelent of LTNZ and picked up the road code in English. Maybe if we had our road code in an appropriate language more tourists would bother to read it? (This, of course, is no excuse for the English speakers.)

[tri boy]

These people, the bikers, are friends of mine.

Pass on KBer's best wishes John.:mellow:

Heading into the sth Island early Feb to check out some of the passes etc.
Best I stay alert for wandering everything:confused:

[Number One]

Actually, there is one - Dyslexia. Ask a dyslexic to show you their left hand and they'll have to think about it and won't always get it right. When my wife tells me which way to turn I get her to point and she's quite often pointing opposite to what she's just said.

HA HA - isn't Bikernympho a dyslexic? Or so she has said many a time anyway...and infact it ain't just dyslexics...there is apparently an actual medically recognised term for people who consistently get their left and rights mixed up.

[Coyote]

Time to paint some arrows on the road for me and others to slip on in the wet

[swbarnett]

Time to paint some arrows on the road for me and others to slip on in the wet
These already exist in some of the more touristy spots. Around places like the Waitomo caves.

[SPman]

When o when are they going to make people prove their competence behind the wheel and awareness of our road rules before letting them loose? :no:

I think there should be a compulsory test both practical and oral or written. That way there is 'some' level of comfort that they are at least aware of the rules and are actually competent enough to be driving HERE in the first place!

Hey - we could try it out on the locals first - that'll solve most of the problems - reduce their targets by half!

[Coyote]

These already exist in some of the more touristy spots. Around places like the Waitomo caves.
I remember seeing some somewhere. Accident waiting to happen, like STOP being written on the road which did a good job at stopping me a while ago.

[FROSTY]

last place I worked we used to rent a few cars. One thing we did was put arrows on the windsheildpointing left Dunno if it helped but none of our cars got crashed.
Boot on the other foot.Theres a road in France nicknamed "suicide alley' by the french.Its the first major road after the ferry from UK and aparently theres at least one head on crash a week there.

[sunhuntin]

I remember seeing some somewhere. Accident waiting to happen, like STOP being written on the road which did a good job at stopping me a while ago.

they have them all over the show down south... usually on both sides of a rest area. just ride around em, easy enough to do, like avoiding a manhole.

when i was in canada, i didnt even notice the side of the road when being a passenger... i had to have it pointed out, lol. i did notice, however, the different stars in the sky, lol.

[Kittyhawk]

Awww go on....

Useless, and they will never be politicially correct among themselves.

The goverment may voice their good intentions but actioning it is another story, "hurry up and wait" is how it is...

Implementing more systems to improve public/govt operated services it aint going to happen, as for the economy running at a loss, why can NZ not provide for itself. The level of imports to exports is pathetic, why do we have to rely on Australia so much, if they change their export system we are fucked! The goverment manages to "donate" millions to countries in need, why have these countries not picked up progress?

Look at Africa - World vision has been going for years and years, yet on TV it demonstrates that funds are still in demand from richer countries. The goverment is not allowing the country to move forward and progress.

ARGH crooked bastards the lot of them!

[Grahameeboy]

Haven't read the other posts...sorry if this is a repeat BUT...

When o when are they going to make people prove their competence behind the wheel and awareness of our road rules before letting them loose? :no:

I think there should be a compulsory test both practical and oral or written. That way there is 'some' level of comfort that they are at least aware of the rules and are actually competent enough to be driving HERE in the first place!

When Kiwi's can understand the rules of the road then you may have a point.

Unless you have driven in Europe, it is easy to make this type of mistake because for a start this Spanish guy was driving a right hand drive car when he is used to a left hand.....

[cold comfort]

Don't panic, it will all be solved by increasing the demerit points for "speeding"-yeah right!. Worked overseas for a while. No dramas in places like Italy and Saudi Arabia. Just requires a little more concentration (not likely with rubbernecking tourists) Mind you the possiblity of incurring the wrath of an injured local resulting in a 10yr incarceration or being shot in the head tends to keep your focus. Maybe we should try that here. The "i wouldn't have hit you if you weren't in my country so it's your fault" argument:wacko:

[Ixion]

When Kiwi's can understand the rules of the road then you may have a point.

Unless you have driven in Europe, it is easy to make this type of mistake because for a start this Spanish guy was driving a right hand drive car when he is used to a left hand.....

That should make one less likely to go wrong. The constant presence of things in the "wrong place" serving as a reminder (gear lever on the wrong side, look out the right hand window - oops no etc ) Easier to understand forgetting on a bike, since everything is in the same place , regardless of "which side"

[twotyred]

:2guns:Judge Moran,"The hanging Judge" is a sight I'd like to see....

[Big Dog]

just a thought here....

how accurate is a gps unit?

The standard is 6 feet. This is however somewhat reduced in cloud cover, odd terrain and or if the equipment is substandard.

[Grahameeboy]

That should make one less likely to go wrong. The constant presence of things in the "wrong place" serving as a reminder (gear lever on the wrong side, look out the right hand window - oops no etc ) Easier to understand forgetting on a bike, since everything is in the same place , regardless of "which side"

It is not that simple coupled with the fact that driving on the left is alien.

I ridden in Europe and riding a bike is a piece of cake on the right hand side of the road.

[scracha]

It is not that simple coupled with the fact that driving on the left is alien.
I ridden in Europe and riding a bike is a piece of cake on the right hand side of the road.

Pretty much EVERYBODY who's driven for any length of time in a country driving on the wrong side of the road will have done this. I managed about 6 weeks in France, then one day the girlfriend pointed out I had just went the wrong way round a roundabout.

You either ban tourists from driving in your country and live with the consequences (loss of tourist income and most likely their own countries will apply similar laws to kiwi tourists) or just learn to live with it.

[Bikernereid]

Wow such compasion and understanding for others. Yes the bikers are the most important poeple in our persepctive and deserve sypathy, support etc but I am sure that the Spanish person did not do this maliciously!! And as a result is probably quite 'upset' to put it lightly.

Have you ever driven in another country that drives on the opposite side of the road? Have you ever done tired, or in dark, wet conditions or on small country lanes, becuase if not then maybe you should keep your NO excuse comments to yourself. Noone is a perfect driver and acccidents sadly enough do happen and they ARE NOT all caused by tourists!!

If you are not happy with tourists driving in your country then I suggest you ask the government ro raise taxes to compensate for the lack of tourism $$ that will not come into your contry!!


Well Fuck how the Spanish Tourist is feeling right now, you should be more concerned at how the Two Motorcyclists are feeling right now. By the way, He was driving the vehicle, Not the Government, so how the hell do you figure that it's their fault.
Being a Tourist in any foreign country is NO excuse whatsoever, it is everyones responsability when travelling to understand, observe and obey the rules of the country they intend to drive in. Quite simple really. If they can't figure that one out, then don't bother comming here.
We already have enough "Dick Heads" on our roads to contend with without needing to add Imports to the mix as well.:angry2:

[Bikernereid]

Oh my God it is all clear now. I have had that problem for years and found that the only soluition I have for it if to put my hands in the holy communion possition so that I can remember that it is always the right hand on top of the left. Is she right or lefy-eyed?

But as most men can't take auditory navigation instructions and drive at the same time, to avoid arguments I drive!!

Why not put stickers at somwhere on the windscreen/dashbaord that indicate right (red sticker) and left (green) or other colours just in case someone might be colourblind!


Actually, there is one - Dyslexia. Ask a dyslexic to show you their left hand and they'll have to think about it and won't always get it right. When my wife tells me which way to turn I get her to point and she's quite often pointing opposite to what she's just said.

As it relates to side of the road there are workarounds for those that have trouble with left and right; just remember that you drive on the opposite side to the side you sit on i.e. right hand drive means drive on the left. Perhaps this would help; tell this to tourists as well as left or right. This should work for all rental cars as long as their not imported sportscars.

[YellowDog]

It's a good point you make. Coming to NZ, the give way on left turn is no where else in the world and letting people find out the hard way is a little tough on both natives and foreigners.

A couple of years back, I had a visitor to the UK from the USA. He had a 2 week schedule of work. After pulling on to the wrong side of a dual caridgeway from a country road he was hospitalised for 5 days and then flew home.

You have to be careful what you try to enforce and how workable it can be however - IMO - If foreign licence holders had to take a theory test of some kind, it would alert them to the fact that they are in a foreign country with a different set of rules. The UK is unusual in that all other European countries drive on the Right side of the road and such a rule on both sides of the Channel could help avoid ruining many lives.

[Robbo]

Wow such compasion and understanding for others. Yes the bikers are the most important poeple in our persepctive and deserve sypathy, support etc but I am sure that the Spanish person did not do this maliciously!! And as a result is probably quite 'upset' to put it lightly.

Have you ever driven in another country that drives on the opposite side of the road? Have you ever done tired, or in dark, wet conditions or on small country lanes, becuase if not then maybe you should keep your NO excuse comments to yourself. Noone is a perfect driver and acccidents sadly enough do happen and they ARE NOT all caused by tourists!!

If you are not happy with tourists driving in your country then I suggest you ask the government ro raise taxes to compensate for the lack of tourism $$ that will not come into your contry!!

Pity you had'nt shown a little compassion for the injured motorcyclists in your first post, instead you were more concerned for the tourist driver that caused this accident through an obvious error of judgement on his part, so how can you refer to him as a "Perfect Driver" ???
If you had read and understood my post (which you obviously did'nt) You would not be trying to make a fool of yourself with your unqualified comments.
This thread was not about "all accidents" it was about a particular incident involving a tourist that was driving on the wrong side of the road and for that he has no one to blame but himself. I will not keep my "No excuse" comments to myself as i have driven in quite a few countries overseas and have made it my responsability to learn and understand the rules before going out on their roads and highways as it is a privilage, not a right to do so.
Tourists are always wellcome here but they must take a greater responsability for their driving especially if they are used to using the other side of the road.
So i would suggest that you get down off your soapbox and use some commonsense when posting. :mad:

[GaZBur]

...I've found the easiest rule of thumb to use when driving elsewhere is the driver should be next to the centre line (assuming you don't have a left hand drive vehicle in a left lane country etc). ...
I agree. Having driven through Europe in a Left Hand drive it is so obvious and natural to drive on the right side, it doesnt actually require thinking about. Parking does feel a bit strange though. If you are tired enough to make that sort of error then you know you should not be driving.
I can see a possible problem riding a bike though as they are ambidexterous so to speak. The only time you should need to think is at intersections due to us in NZ having unusual give way rules. I do remember roundabouts being tricky but only coz of the speeds they use. Hardly a problem on rural roads, keep the furthest wheel from the driver as close to the edge of the road as practicable and you OK whichever country the country road is in.
Serious charges should result from negligence where serious injury is a result.

[gijoe1313]

Burn them! Burn them all!

[Bikernereid]

Of course I have compassion for the riders that goes without saying, dad was knocked off his bike and uncle was killed on one so believe me I am not not just feeling sympathy for the tourist. I feel for the riders and thier families, maybe for people to get this I need to put it in black and white.

What I am saying is that people seem very quick to judge others, noone is perfect we are human. We all make mistakes and sometimes some of them have graver consequences than other. But I am not going to start screaming about this type of person and that type of person because one person made a mistake, I am sure thentourists feels bad enough without a linch mob having a go.

The point I am trying to make is that tourists do make errors and what people need to do is something positive so that these accidents don't happen as often. If find that trying to find a positive solution instead of focusing on the negative works far better.




Pity you had'nt shown a little compassion for the injured motorcyclists in your first post, instead you were more concerned for the tourist driver that caused this accident through an obvious error of judgement on his part, so how can you refer to him as a "Perfect Driver" ???
If you had read and understood my post (which you obviously did'nt) You would not be trying to make a fool of yourself with your unqualified comments.
This thread was not about "all accidents" it was about a particular incident involving a tourist that was driving on the wrong side of the road and for that he has no one to blame but himself. I will not keep my "No excuse" comments to myself as i have driven in quite a few countries overseas and have made it my responsability to learn and understand the rules before going out on their roads and highways as it is a privilage, not a right to do so.
Tourists are always wellcome here but they must take a greater responsability for their driving especially if they are used to using the other side of the road.
So i would suggest that you get down off your soapbox and use some commonsense when posting. :mad:

[Bikernereid]

Believe me the first thing I will do before I start driving/riding in NZ is see if I can get some advanced driving/riding lessons. The whole left turning thing is very odd and I would hate to be the 'immigrant' that injures a pedestrian, biker etc by not understand the road rules!!


It's a good point you make. Coming to NZ, the give way on left turn is no where else in the world and letting people find out the hard way is a little tough on both natives and foreigners.

A couple of years back, I had a visitor to the UK from the USA. He had a 2 week schedule of work. After pulling on to the wrong side of a dual caridgeway from a country road he was hospitalised for 5 days and then flew home.

You have to be careful what you try to enforce and how workable it can be however - IMO - If foreign licence holders had to take a theory test of some kind, it would alert them to the fact that they are in a foreign country with a different set of rules. The UK is unusual in that all other European countries drive on the Right side of the road and such a rule on both sides of the Channel could help avoid ruining many lives.

[pritch]

What I am saying is that people seem very quick to judge others, noone is perfect we are human. We all make mistakes and sometimes some of them have graver consequences than other.

I think that most of those who are quick to rant about driving tests and such haven't driven in Europe or the USA. When I was in those parts of the world I didn't have to drive, so I didn't offer. I admire those who have the patience, the determination, and the sheer good luck to do it successfully.

I have seen one of my party pull out of a drive way and take off at speed down the wrong side of a busy road in Holland.

The only party of motorcyclists to tour the USA, in which anyone was known to me, lost a rider who forgot where he was momentarily and placed himself between the headlights of an oncoming vehicle.

That group had big arrows on their windscreens, they had talked about it, they were aware of the potential problem. Most of them were vastly experienced motorcyclists, most if not all had been involved in the industry for many years. One moments lapse was all it took.

Be careful on the tourist roads.

[scumdog]

Only time I have had a problem of which side of the road to be on was AFTER I got back from the USA.

Came out of a narrow alley in the work car lat eone night - and promptly drove down the wrong side of the quiet side street until my mate said "hey, what are you doing"??

[Bikernereid]

I have the odd exoerience of driving a left-hand drive car in the UK. Must admit that driving it over here at first did feel odd not because of which side of the road I had to drive on but because driving on the other side of the road feels more natural.

As a right handed person using my right hand for the gear stick make more sense and feels right. I have found that driving a right hand drive I sometimes go for the gear stick and find my hand heading towards the little storage section on the door!!

I think that it would make more sense if everyone drove on the same side of the road, ok it would cost money to make the changes but if it meant that the roads were safer to drive on then that alone should far outweigh the monetary costs. But then again which countries would be prepared to change??!!


Only time I have had a problem of which side of the road to be on was AFTER I got back from the USA.

Came out of a narrow alley in the work car lat eone night - and promptly drove down the wrong side of the quiet side street until my mate said "hey, what are you doing"??

[MaxB]

I have driven/ridden in Europe and it is brilliant. Riding on the right was no problem at all.

The problem I did have was one that a lot of Kiwis may not think about and that is riding on the motorway networks. Kilometers of crushingly boring high speed travel. The concentration reqiuired was enormous. I got semi freaked out by the sheer volume of traffic especially around big Euro cities. And the traffic jams. That took more getting used to than whatever side of the road I was supposed to be on.

One tip I got from a touring Brit was to tie a piece of Hi-viz fabric around your right glove. The ends flap in the breeze as a constant reminder on what side of the road to be on. It worked but hell it was annoying.

[Bikernereid]

One serious probem facing any bike rider is driving in Brussels. Firstly, you must have balls of steel as these guys drive like bloody maniacs. The second and even wrose problem is the inner ring system. This system is designed to keep traffic off the major inner road by utlising a tunnel system. That in itself sounds good but what you have to be aware of is that if you wish to exit a tunnel to access a road you are pulling off to the right as drivers wishing to enter the tunnel are pulling in at the same time. So the whole exit/enterance eperience is a hug game of chicken with the mre determined person winning. As you can imagine this is great fun, especially when you have people driving at the speed limit coming up on your arse as you are trying to exit.

But once you have mastered it you will be a more confident if not 'aggressive' / assertive rider!!


I have driven/ridden in Europe and it is brilliant. Riding on the right was no problem at all.

The problem I did have was one that a lot of Kiwis may not think about and that is riding on the motorway networks. Kilometers of crushingly boring high speed travel. The concentration reqiuired was enormous. I got semi freaked out by the sheer volume of traffic especially around big Euro cities. And the traffic jams. That took more getting used to than whatever side of the road I was supposed to be on.

One tip I got from a touring Brit was to tie a piece of Hi-viz fabric around your right glove. The ends flap in the breeze as a constant reminder on what side of the road to be on. It worked but hell it was annoying.

[scracha]

Believe me the first thing I will do before I start driving/riding in NZ is see if I can get some advanced driving/riding lessons.

Why? You'll be in the minority here if you drive/ride properly. My missus and I are starting to drive like kiwi's now.....we leave 1m braking distance at 100kmph and never bother to indicate, especially at roundabouts.

Most important unwritten rule whilst driving over here....give way to the bigger vehicle with bull bars.

[sandmart]

Ive been over seas and driving on the right is confussing to start with but as long as you learn there give way rules you adjust to it and after that you know where you are and thers no problem. except for as someone said tiredness. which is cured easily and thats pull over and rest. they should at least have to sit a theory test so they know the rules.
Keep right side up and the rubber on the road. Cheers Martin.

[BiK3RChiK]

I haven't driven overseas but having been a visitor in a right hand drive country I would definitely think twice before just jumping behind the wheel and off I go!! Round-a-bouts are the worse! You go right around it instead of left - giving way to traffic on your left!!! WTF??? As I said... It'd take me a loooong while before I'd jump behind the wheel! I've always taken the bus or a taxi...

M

[Robbo]

I haven't driven overseas but having been a visitor in a right hand drive country I would definitely think twice before just jumping behind the wheel and off I go!! Round-a-bouts are the worse! You go right around it instead of left - giving way to traffic on your left!!! WTF??? As I said... It'd take me a loooong while before I'd jump behind the wheel! I've always taken the bus or a taxi...

M

Excellent response, as we all need to take responsability for our own actions first and foremost, not only for the lives of other road users but for our own as well. Familiarity is the is the problem we face when only having being used to our own road usage and rules and when in another country we need to learn and understand fully what we are facing and stay mindfull at all times.
I guess that having to drive on the opposite side of the road that we are used to would obviously be one of the main challenges. Food for thought.

[Waylander]

Been here just under 4 years now and not once have I accidentally driven/riden on the wrong side of the road. Even in the middle of the night when I was tired as.
You would have to be incredibly stupid and probably a bad driver to begin with to screw up something that simple.

[madandy]

Been here just under 4 years now and not once have I accidentally driven/riden on the wrong side of the road. Even in the middle of the night when I was tired as.
You would have to be incredibly stupid and probably a bad driver to begin with to screw up something that simple.

Its a good test of cleverness mate. A bit like driving a Euro car with the indicator stalk on the wrong side. Some people have their wits about them and get it right...others drive around corners waving their windscreen wipers lol