Right-turn requirements?

[spookytooth]

Just read this in paper.This happened on a straight main road Tga ppl will know the road beteen welcomebay round about and Windermare round about 100k zone.A car stopped in middle of road to turn right into hot pools.Isn't this illegal? (ment to pull over to left till roads clear ahead) a van in traviling in frount of two bikes (blocking view of road)has to swerve to miss car 1 bike also swerves around car other guy on buel not so lucky plants bike up the ass of car goes over the roof.Guy walks away lucky :)Anyways :Police: says its all the bikers fault ?surely its the car drivers fault for stopping in the middle of the road Just wondering

[Skunk]

Both are at fault legally but the biker is guilty of more road rules being broken. Car only broke one (a little enforced one too). Lucky biker.

[99TLS]

arent you in the wrong for following to close if you hit the car infront ????

[spookytooth]

arent you in the wrong for following to close if you hit the car infront ????
Yea but what gets me is the van swerves aside suddenly theres a car in these guys path(and it shouldnt even be there ) and that makes it there fault

[yungatart]

Yes! You must be able to stop in half the clear distance ahead.
Biker's fault.

[Skunk]

'Failing to stop in the available distance' is the legal term. Been done for it years ago.

[99TLS]

Yea but what gets me is the van swerves aside suddenly theres a car in these guys path(and it shouldnt even be there ) and that makes it there fault

yeah i know where your coming from, but it seem they were in the wrong place at the wrong time

[spookytooth]

wanders off muttering law seems f'in stupid :)

[Jantar]

Unfortunately, the car did nothing wrong. This is another of those rule changes that have snuck through without the public being fully informed. It used to be that a car turning right from a 100 kmh area pulled hard left, until the road was clear. Now the vehicle turning right has the option of stopping at the centerline and waiting.

[sAsLEX]

I nearly did something simialary stupid the other day.


Following a tanker who I thought was turning into a farm up ahead as he started indicating right...... so I went to go up the inside not stupid fast just cruising...... but he was indicating to go around a tractor/harvester that I nearly collected as I was a touch close to the back of the tanker......



Keep your distance folks and make sure you know what is ahead, and never assume you know why someone is doing something!

[sAsLEX]

Unfortunately, the car did nothing wrong. This is another of those rule changes that have snuck through without the public being fully informed. It used to be that a car turning right from a 100 kmh area pulled hard left, until the road was clear. Now the vehicle turning right has the option of stopping at the centerline and waiting.

Ask Kirk about the genius that did half and half infront of us on the way to CHCH, indicated right slowed down as though doing the staying in the centre then as we neared going around the left pulled hard over to the left whilst indicating right the whole time....... fuckin tourists......

[spookytooth]

Unfortunately, the car did nothing wrong. This is another of those rule changes that have snuck through without the public being fully informed. It used to be that a car turning right from a 100 kmh area pulled hard left, until the road was clear. Now the vehicle turning right has the option of stopping at the centerline and waiting.
Arr Thanks

[Highlander]

Ask Kirk about the genius that did half and half infront of us on the way to CHCH, indicated right slowed down as though doing the staying in the centre then as we neared going around the left pulled hard over to the left whilst indicating right the whole time....... fuckin tourists......

Had that happen myself. I "Failed to stop" wrote off the car I tail ended, and the one coming the other way that he was pushed into. They fixed mine, and the one that was turning didn't get touched. Lucky we all walked away with nothing more than seat belt bruises and the experience.

[homer]

still following to close if there was more gap to the van then they could have stopped

[spookytooth]

still following to close if there was more gap to the van then they could have stopped

Well if your following a big transit sitting close to the left hand side it swerves left on this stretch of road it would be in the gravel,chances are your going to travel a long way before you stop wondering WTF think crap and swerve left then see car :)But yea if you hit some one from behind its all bad

[homer]

yeah i know what your saying its all bad
when im in the cage and i see someone following to close i actually swerve around something "if its there to do so " on purpose and i make sure im really close before i swerve round the back of it

Its so funny to see them on the anchors
and you see the look on there face as they pull up
Fuck i crack up

well serves them right for tailgating

[swbarnett]

surely its the car drivers fault for stopping in the middle of the road Just wondering
Stopping in the middle of the road while waiting to turn right is perfectly legal. It is only suggested that moving to the left of the road and waiting for traffic that was behind you may be best.

In this situation the biker must take full responsibility as they were following too closely.


From the NZ Road Code web site:

Making a right turn on a road with a centre line

In this situation:

* slow down before you turn
* check your rear-view mirror and look over your right shoulder to check your blind spot
* signal for at least three seconds
* move close to the centre line
* turn when safe.

Making a right turn from the left-hand side of the road

If there are other vehicles moving fast or following too closely, or if the road is narrow, it may be best to wait on the left-hand side of the road to make the turn, rather than stopping in the middle of the road and holding up traffic.

[madandy]

There's no excuse for running up the arse of any vehicle on that stretch of road...
I dissagree with the law most bitterly regarding cars being allowed to sit in the middle of a state highway waiting to turn right!!!!

[Matt_TG]

What about the pictures in the paper. The bike that was involved doesn't look as munted as the rear of the car. Forks are straight, wheel still looks round. Do you think they took a pic of the wrong bike? Good old BOP Times ....

[ajturbo]

think of the buell.... think of the buell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oooooo........ spare parts!!

[bell]

Ask Kirk about the genius that did half and half infront of us on the way to CHCH, indicated right slowed down as though doing the staying in the centre then as we neared going around the left pulled hard over to the left whilst indicating right the whole time....... fuckin tourists......

Yep. Got to treat them with the suspicion they deserve.

So, the list incldes: campervans, hire cars, umm, Police vehicles, tradesman's vans, boy racer cars, and any others I've omitted to mention.

[bell]

yeah i know what your saying its all bad
when im in the cage and i see someone following to close i actually swerve around something "if its there to do so " on purpose and i make sure im really close before i swerve round the back of it

Its so funny to see them on the anchors
and you see the look on there face as they pull up
Fuck i crack up

well serves them right for tailgating

Must try that this week! It sounds like just the wake up that about half the fucking drivers in this country need.

[Badjelly]

Unfortunately, the car did nothing wrong. This is another of those rule changes that have snuck through without the public being fully informed. It used to be that a car turning right from a 100 kmh area pulled hard left, until the road was clear. Now the vehicle turning right has the option of stopping at the centerline and waiting.

The change was made ~ 20 years ago, as I recall. It was well publicised at the time. Have you read the Road Code in the last 20 years?

Well, OK, neither have I, but I don't think it's fair to say this change was "snuck through".

[spookytooth]

[QUOTE=Badjelly;1400307]The change was made ~ 20 years ago, as I recall. It was well publicised at the time. Have you read the Road Code in the last 20 years?

Ummm nope :)

[Badjelly]

I disagree with the law most bitterly regarding cars being allowed to sit in the middle of a state highway waiting to turn right!!!!

Yeah, it can be dangerous, but turning right from the left of the road has its dangers too. Making judgements about the distance & speed of approaching vehicles is difficult enough without having to do it while craning to look over your right-hand shoulder, or looking in a mirror. If it's done well, no problem, but the consequences of misjudgements can be horrendous.

Then you get the people who indicate right (for the right turn they intend to make eventually) while pulling left!

[pc220]

If the actions of alot of the bikes i have encounted lately while driving the cage are anything to go by, i would say the bike was in the wrong for sure. Does the 2 second rule not apply to bikes ?. Alot of the bikes that have followed me seem to be using the .2 second rule, they might as well just hop in the boot. Cage drivers do alot of dumb ass shit , but dont forget so do alot of bikes. Thats just my first ever 2c worth.

[Jantar]

The change was made ~ 20 years ago, as I recall. It was well publicised at the time.
It was 24 years ago, and it wasn't well publicised at the time. It came in at the same time as the give way when turning left rule, and that that one did receive heaps of publicity.

There were a number of rule changes that came in the same group and although there were all advertised, it was only the new give way rule that was exyensively publicised.

[Usarka]

If you are following something you can't see passed then.......hello?

[madandy]

If the actions of alot of the bikes i have encounted lately while driving the cage are anything to go by, i would say the bike was in the wrong for sure. Does the 2 second rule not apply to bikes ?. Alot of the bikes that have followed me seem to be using the .2 second rule, they might as well just hop in the boot. Cage drivers do alot of dumb ass shit , but dont forget so do alot of bikes. Thats just my first ever 2c worth.
I know what you mean...we own 3 cages(don't ask, lol) plus a work ute so unfortunately spend more time in a cage than on two wheels..we always move left to allow bikes past and the number of fools we see sitting right on the boot lid of us and other cars :mad: They fail to realise most cars stop quicker than most bikes by quite some margin...I wish they'd just slip on by or drop back for their own damn health...

[pc220]

And then the cages usually get their revenge by doing the same to the next bike they can catch up to. And thats usually me clawing my way up a slight rise into a mild breeze on the little scorpio:(

[johnnyflash]

As was pointed out earlier, the move is perfectly legal on the cars part, the rule was changed many many years back from pulling off road and waiting till clear.. at the time many thousands of us wrote to the authorities stating the obvious, its bloody dangerous, especially when coming around bends / over rise and surprise a car is sitting stopped and you sail into it at 100kph..
Yes the rule that states " you should be able to stop in half the distance visable ahead" (or similar) is all very well in theory, but in practice it doesnt happen. if I remember correctly even AA had something to say about it also.
I and most of my mates from a somewhat earlier era, still follow the old sensible rule, and signal left, pull off, stop,signal right and wait till its clear, if close to corner or brow, then one travels a little further down the road to make it safe for turning vehicle and other traffic..

[mowgli]

They fail to realise most cars stop quicker than most bikes by quite some margin.

Shit! I didn't know that! I thought the brakes to weight ratio was in favour of the bike. I guess I haven't practised emergency stops in a cage in ... well ... since I got my licence. Geez that was a while ago.

[mowgli]

Yes the rule that states " you should be able to stop in half the distance visable ahead"

No. The rule states you must be able to stop in half the distance visible on an unlaned road or the distance visible on a laned road.

[swbarnett]

its bloody dangerous, especially when coming around bends / over rise and surprise a car is sitting stopped and you sail into it at 100kph..
I'd rather have the car on the right so that I can move left than have it turn in front of me when it's too late. At least the situation is then under my control.

[pc220]

I'd rather have the car on the right so that I can move left than have it turn in front of me when it's too late. At least the situation is then under my control.

Thats exactly what i saw yesterday in Arapuni. Cage pulls to the left then turns right cutting off the bike preparing to pass on the right of them. Lucky this time the bike WAS following at a safe distance and was able to pull up in time. Then it was my turn to hit the brakes when the cage comleted his U turn in front of me.

[johnnyflash]

No. The rule states you must be able to stop in half the distance visible on an unlaned road or the distance visible on a laned road.

pedantic.. I said .. you should be able to stop in half the distance visable ahead" (or similar)

[johnnyflash]

I'd rather have the car on the right so that I can move left than have it turn in front of me when it's too late. At least the situation is then under my control.

you have NO control of the situation if he is just over the brow or around a corner..

[mowgli]

pedantic.. I said .. you should be able to stop in half the distance visable ahead" (or similar)

Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean but that sort of off-handed comment belies the token consideration too many driver pay to cornering speed. I should slow down but I won't and then I'll moan about it when some bugger stops legally (but stupidly because of drivers like me) in the road just around a corner.

[mowgli]

you have NO control of the situation if he is just over the brow or around a corner..

You must be travelling a bit quick then, eh? Of course I've never been guilty of that :whistle:

[Soul.Trader]

Everyone has had plenty of time to adapt to this "new" rule. I have to say, it seems MUCH safer to me to sit by the center line, and only having to cross one lane on the turn. The alternative is having to watch the traffic in two lanes, then judge accurately enough to not cause carnage as you cross both lanes. Besides which, on many of these roads, there's as much danger in having a car on the left shoulder as on the center line.

At the end of the day, other motorists (yes, that includes motorcycles) need to be driving in a state which affords them ample awareness and time to react to these types of situations. Frankly, there's never any excuse for running into the back of anyone - it's the type of situation which should simply never happen.

[johnnyflash]

You must be travelling a bit quick then, eh? Of course I've never been guilty of that :whistle:

:-) it has been known to happen that I "might" travel a little quick on occassion, BUT that wasnt the point I was endeavouring to make, in NORMAL road behavior, at legal speeds one doesnt slow down at every corner incase some dipstick is blocking the road just around the bend or over the rise. I know in a perfect world you should approach every possible hazzard at a speed you can stop within before hitting said dipstick, but I dont live in this perfect world. hence I do what is safer for me and other drivers and wait on the left until road is clear (unless there is a marked R-H-turn lane ofcourse) and do it in a position that someone roaring around the corner doesnt make me roadkill. its probably why I still live after 2 million kms ;-)

[mowgli]

I know in a perfect world you should approach every possible hazzard at a speed you can stop within before hitting said dipstick, but I dont live in this perfect world.

Funny, in a perfect world there wouldn't be any dipsticks and you probably could speed round corners. I agree we're not in that perfect world and need to adjust our driving habits accordingly to survive the idiots.

[Badjelly]

In NORMAL road behavior, at legal speeds one doesnt slow down at every corner incase some dipstick is blocking the road just around the bend or over the rise. I know in a perfect world you should approach every possible hazzard at a speed you can stop within before hitting said dipstick...

You can't anticipate every possible hazard: campervans coming at you on the wrong side of the road, cops doing U-turns at blind bends, that sort of thing. But I think I do normally drive/ride in such a way that I could avoid an unexpected *stationary* obstacle. And I'm not that much of a nana, either. I go around corners faster than most cagers, though not as fast as your typical KBer, obviously.

Mind you, I've never had this theory tested in any serious way.

[swbarnett]

you have NO control of the situation if he is just over the brow or around a corner..
And the car stopped at the left has no visibility of you coming over that brow or around that corner so they can't predict when the road is clear. Better that you are the one that has the control (you can always turn tighter if you have to - unless you're at your limit in the corner).

[swbarnett]

in NORMAL road behavior, at legal speeds one doesnt slow down at every corner incase some dipstick is blocking the road just around the bend or over the rise.
If you don't then you can't claim you are travelling at a legal speed.

[johnnyflash]

And the car stopped at the left has no visibility of you coming over that brow or around that corner so they can't predict when the road is clear. Better that you are the one that has the control (you can always turn tighter if you have to - unless you're at your limit in the corner).

yep, and only a halfwit would stop just over the brow & await (either in the middle or on the left) to make a turn, but it happens, I prefer to try and give myself AND other road users some control, hence I wouldnt consider either move just over the brow or just around a corner, but rather carry on to a position where I could see and be seen & I would still pull left and let traffic go by safely, its bloody difficult to get a B-train to scoot past a car parked in the middle of the road and I for one would prefer to cover as many bases as in every situation.

[Skyryder]

In most cases unless there are exceptional circumstances the stationary vehicle will be given the benefit of the doubt for liability. I don't agree that vehicles can stop willy nilly anywhere they like just for their own conveniance but the stationary 'rule' does make for a much simpler diagnosis when establishing culperbility.

Skyryder

[steveb64]

yep, and only a halfwit would stop just over the brow & await (either in the middle or on the left) to make a turn, but it happens, I prefer to try and give myself AND other road users some control, hence I wouldnt consider either move just over the brow or just around a corner, but rather carry on to a position where I could see and be seen & I would still pull left and let traffic go by safely, its bloody difficult to get a B-train to scoot past a car parked in the middle of the road and I for one would prefer to cover as many bases as in every situation.

For some strange reason, I have this picture of you driving some distance down the road, vainly searching for somewhere that you can use to do a U turn, so that you can get back to the intersection/driveway that you wanted to turn into...

I think I'm with swbarnett - what would be worse - come over/around a blind crest/corner and find a car stopped on the centerline (leaving a gap down the left) trying to turn right, or come over/around a blind crest/corner and find a car in the middle of a right turn - started from the LH side - so the whole road is blocked?

[johnnyflash]

No, but I would look for a position a little away from the corner, and as I said many posts back it depends on the road, if there room for a car to pass inside without leaving the road? then perhaps I would sit in the middle (and unfortunately many of our main riads are only a very single skinny lane) but even then I would have the courtesy to move a little away from the corner. Ive seen too many accidents in my years on the road, where a little courtesy & common sense would have saved the situation.

[BiK3RChiK]

Just yesterday a truckie was following us and knowing we were going to be turning right just up the road 500m, I pulled off to the left, let him go, then pulled back in and made my turn further up the road... There are many ways around things - it just takes awareness.

JMO
M